WHOOP Podcast - From U.S. Navy Seal to World Record Holder with Mike Sarraille

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

On this week’s episode, WHOOP VP of Performance Science, Principal Scientist, Kristen Holmes is joined by former U.S. Navy SEAL officer Mike Sarraille. After 20 years of service, including 10 combat deployments, Mike began to focus his energy on leadership and human performance. He was a member of the Triple 7 Expedition which was a record-breaking skydiving journey that completed 7 skydives across 7 continents in 7 days. Kristen and Mike will discuss Mike’s time in the service and the transition out (3:00), dealing with mental health (12:10), his leadership learnings and mentoring others (16:25), creating a culture of high performance (25:40), Legacy Expeditions and developing the Triple 7 campaign (37:40), the Folds of Honor Foundation (49:40), the Triple 7 Expedition Team’s WHOOP data (51:05), and developing longevity and a tough mindset (1:03:18).Resources:Mike's WebsiteLegacy Expeditions Everyday Warrior PodcastSupport the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

What's up, folks? Welcome back to the Whoop podcast, where we sit down with The Best of the Best, where we're on a mission to unlock human performance. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Whoop. On this week's podcast, Whoop VP of Performance Science, our principal scientist, Kristen Holmes, is joined by former U.S. Navy SEAL officer Mike Sorrelli. After 20 years of service, including 10 combat deployments, Mike began to focus his energy on leadership and human performance. He was a member of the Triple Seven Expedition, which is a record-breaking skydiving journey, completed seven skydives across seven continents in seven days.

Take a second to think about that. Seven skydives across seven continents in seven days. That's insane. Mike and eight other former U.S. and Canadian service members, all-war whoop throughout the expedition and compiled some incredible data. Kristen and Mike discuss Mike's military service career and his transition out of the service, how Mike has used his military experience in his new life as a mentor and leadership coach. It's all about creating a culture of high performance and accountability, according to Mike.

The Legacy Expedition Program and the Triple Seven campaign, the Triple Seven teams whoop data, They get into lack of sleep, HRV, and how their metrics compared to the baseline. And how to develop a strong mental mindset. I think this is a really key piece of the podcast. Keep in mind, this is a world record accomplishment. And so you're going to hear a lot from Mike about mindset. If you're interested in WOOP, we are now offering a 30-day free trial of the platform.

You get a WOOP in the mail, our latest WOOP 4.0, in the mail. and you get to decide after 30 days whether you want to become a member. It's literally a free trial, so that's at whoop.com. If you have a question, you want to see you answered on the podcast. Email us, podcast at whoop.com, or call us 508-443-49-49-49-9-5-2. Here are Kristen Holmes and Mike Sorrelli. I'm super excited for this discussion. We're going to talk about Folds of Honor and the World Record-breaking Triple-7 Expedition.

We've got some super cool data. that I'm really eager for you to help contextualize. And I'd also love to chat a little bit about one of your recent articles that highlighted some super interesting research about aging and mindset. So I thought that would be really fun to talk about and just given your vast experience in the field

of human performance, kind of just your thoughts on that specific research and just mindset in general. And so excited for a little deep dive around that. Let me qualify that. My anecdotal non-indexamines, empirical data, experience, and human performance. Hey, well, you have thousands of repetitions, and that absolutely counts for something.

And just to kind of set this up by, you know, for our listeners, like you're a decorated veteran with 20 years of service, 10 combat deployments, and you have, as it just mentioned, an incomprehensible number of repetitions, pushing the limits of human performance. So first of all, thank you for your service. And secondly,

And secondly, thank you for using your wealth of knowledge and experience to teach others about leadership and human flourishing. I know that it's often difficult for folks who transition from special operations in particular to replicate the purpose that is felt during that time serving. And as a place to start, I'd love to hear your perspective on your time in the military and what that transition period separating from the military really looked like for you. Well, first off, thank you for paying your taxes and paying my salary and the $100,000

worth of mountaineering and combat equipment I walked away with. So thank you. My pleasure. Certainly, you know, I'll tell you this. I didn't come from the military lineage in the power that people don't realize they hold when they're part of an organization and there's a sense of pride of being part of that organization. When you step outside your office building or work, you represent your organization. For me, as a 18, 19 year old, I met a forced recon Marine, Staff Sergeant Ben Post. And the guy

was a forced recon Marine. I mean, you know, I think like 5-10, just built. And again, I'm 18, like 135 pounds soaking wet. And the guy was just nice. He was around all these other Marines who were just, quite frankly, dicks and rude and arrogant to the people. And then the one badass amongst the 15 Marines and they all knew it was this guy who's got the dual cool force recon, humbly confident, kind, respectful, empathetic. And

I'm just like, dude, whatever organization, whatever you do, I want in. And college didn't work out. And he gave me some great guidance to help guide me. I enlisted in the Marine Corps with a recon guarantee, maybe through the recon training, became a recon Marine, a scout sniper.

Funny enough, I went to scout sniper and remember i come from the bay area california which is not exactly a hotbed of uh of uh of recruiting and nor like are we big gun people so i never really fired a gun before i joined the military and then within one year of the marine corps i'm in sniper school and uh made it through sniper school by the skin of my teeth not the shooting part that was easy it was the stocking part but the marine corps laid the foundation for me to be successful uh you know i graduated high school with a 2.9. And after a couple of years in the Marine Corps, okay, you're doing a good job. Do you want to become an officer? This was pre-9-11. I'm like, I looked at my peers and they're like,

go, dude, go. And graduated Texas A&M with like a 3.65. You know, I guarantee I didn't get smarter during those five years. I learned about honor, discipline, self-accountability. and I have to say self-discipline, commitment, focus, pride. And, you know, the next step for me was the SEAL teams because the war had kicked off where I was a MESEP stationed at Texas A&M. And, you know, maybe through the SEAL training, remember I'd been through some very tough training in the Marine Corps before I even got to Buds. Quitting wasn't an option because I was very much still representing the Marine Corps.

made it to seal team three did three combat deployments two of those were won the battle of vermonti in o six which was popularized by by extreme ownership and jaco willink and then you know the battle of solder city in o eight and then made it to naval special warfare development group which is a very elite talent pool within elite talent pool and when i got there every day was a battle to make sure that I was staying at the bar, the standard they had set or a little bit above. And I think that's why I only lasted six years there, because I was just war out at the end. Only six years. Yeah. You know, you said 10 combat deployments. It's not rare for for guys there to have 15 combat deployments. One of my buddies had 22 combat deployments.

And I'm just like, God damn, dude. These guys, and you know I'm in the public but for every one of me there's like 50 badasses that the public will never know about that like would be like Sirelli shut up they are

I was in all of the men and women I served alongside especially in the tier one community they're the most lethal warriors in the world and that's not a subjective statement that's an objective statement that's fact to give you an example one out of 40 seals makes it to

to the tier one level. And to get into the SEAL teams, it's already has a 75% to 90% nutrition rate. And what people get wrong about these lethal warriors is they're kind, they're respectful, they're empathetic, and they're just good human beings, man. They do a dirty job. They know why they're doing it. And it is a tribe.

And so when you talk about transitioning out, you know, I ended up one of the first elements into Iraq when the whole ISIS thing kicked off. I was actually with our Army Tier 1 component. on an exchange tour doing a troop commander over there and we had no authorities to do anything while the yezidi people were being massacred by ISIS on a mountain people in mosul were being massacred and we're like put us in put us in put us in and nope nope nope and for me my fund meter was just paid i felt like we were fighting with two hands behind our backs and then all of a sudden i end up in austin texas by myself and it was just two years of while i was in the NBA program

you know when i left the the house i put a veneer on with a smile and then when i got back to the house it was just a spiral every night um because one if i think special operations guys for the most part suffer from a form of post-traumatic stress called survivor's guilt and i know you know dr chris free i think you do yeah yeah operator's syndrome yeah has done some just incredible work um really dissecting what what that what that actually looks like um somebody connected me well somebody pulled me in a former senior officer who's already retired having to live in austin as well he's like what the hell are you doing dude and they put me in contact with chris free for like two years he talked to me on the phone for an hour every day

that's how much that man gives to others you talk about selflessness he puts a different definition uh on that term yeah and he taught me a lot of that about, you know, you see the sign in the back says everyday warrior. And I struggled with the fact that I lost my tribe. That was a big part of my DNA. And we were traditional warriors or warriors in the traditional sense. And, you know, he heard me talk about how the biggest warrior I knew my life was my mom. That woman, she was only like 5-1 Italian, is a warrior to the core.

and the only person to ever break my nose or cause it to bleed massively and I deserved it. But he's like, hey, you talk about this everyday warrior and your mom and he's like, why aren't you that? And it really brought it home. And then I met a good woman who became my wife. So Chris and her really helped me out of a dark hole.

And you need help from time to time. That's okay. It doesn't make you less masculine or less mentally tough. we all need help from time to time and the worst thing you can do is continue to internalize that rather than doing the bravest thing morally courageous thing just say hey i think i need to talk to somebody i need a little help and that was the period in my life that i needed help and so now i'm trying to to give others that help where i can but um and my what did that spiral actually look

like for you oh god you know i think it's you know part of it is you know part of it is is recognizing it another so you can, you know, I think sometimes it's really hard for people to get help, right? And I think, you know, as family members and loved ones, you know, how do identify when someone is really struggling? I mean, you probably rocked up to class every day, Mike, with a smile on your face, like everything's fine, like you're just, you know, and then you go home and what happens when you go home, you know? And how does someone, how do, How do we know when to really encourage someone to get help? So when I left Virginia Beach and I still had two years to my retirement,

they stationed me at the University of Texas Naval ROTC Center, where I was really getting my MBA. And so I'm still active duty. Probably had the longest beard in my career. They called me in for piss tests, urine test, drug tests, at the command, and I'd come in with a big beard, I'd do my urine test, and they'd be like, okay, you can leave now because they didn't want me around the students. But, you know, it really was, so when I arrived, I hadn't drinking, you know, I didn't really

drink alcohol for like two years. I was in the best shape. And this is funny. I was in the best physical shape of my life, but I was emotionally, mentally, spiritually bereft. And I was, I was just angry. Everyone was an enemy. All the guys wanted to do was go forward and just eliminate bad people from the earth. And we didn't feel like we could do that.

And so there was a lot of angst towards, you know, the government, a lot of survivors' guilt. And then I started drinking heavily, which then led to, you know, I'm going through a divorce at the time. You know, I'm fighting out in town, which is embarrassing for a lieutenant commander. and doing other things that were self-mutilating in a way. And then, you know, I woke up on a sidewalk after a fight because two guys were in front of me. Apparently there was a friend behind me. I didn't have my hearing aids in, didn't hear him coming, sank me right into a sleeper hole, but laid my head down.

And I woke up with two buddies looking down at me. And I guess the first words out of my mouth were, did I just get choked out? And they're like, yeah, I'm like, help me up. And it's right around that time that I started talking to Chris. I'm like, okay, this is unsustainable. One, I'm putting my career in my retirement in jeopardy. And Kristen, this is like this is the low point for me. I'm embarrassed to even say that I didn't have the maturity and wisdom to not do this.

But it was what I needed to go through to really wake up and say, hey you got to start living for something else and you got you're still a warrior warrior is about a mindset not about carrying a gun and hey you do have a job and that's to live in honor of the guys that didn't come home and right now you're not doing that and um yeah it's it's it's there's ups and downs there's ebbs and flows that's life and and uh i focused more on mental and spiritual fitness over the last few years than i have physical uh clearly Yeah, I just interviewed a gentleman named Dr. Guy Wynch, and, you know, he was saying how much folks spend on programming their exercise and thinking about what lifts are going to do and how far they're going to run, but don't actually spend really any amount of time thinking about their mental, physical, and spiritual health. And, you know, I think we'd probably be a lot better off as a society if there was a more of a balance between those two things. But, yeah, you know, I think that, I mean, as you're talking, you know, I think about the parallels, you know, for folks who are transitioning from other things in their life, you know, whether they're an Olympic athlete or a collegiate athlete and now they're finished.

You know, there's just transition periods for everyone. And I guess, like, I think the magic of what you've been able to do, Mike, is take this really kind of extreme, like, amplified moment in your life. use that experience to help others understand what these transition periods can look like and how to use those transition moments for good. And so I guess I'd love to hear just, you know, how do you take this career, the highs and the lows and translate it to folks like you're giving a keynote, for example, to a Fortune 500 company, which you do frequently, you know, what does that message, you know, really look like? it's funny you talk about other professions i was just on a zoom with a guy named mark

patison uh NFL player played for the saints the the raiders wide receiver and uh you know there's a lot of parallels those guys play until they're 30 and all the sudden part of their DNA is just it's gone yeah so he got in he got into climbing uh mountains and he did all seven summits on seven continents and he also won a Emmy for videography and when he climbed Everest. So, you know, one, I would say this. The military taught us how to live a good life, how to be disciplined, how to be accountable, how to maintain standards. And then for some reason, we just forget it the second we take the uniform off, but do hard things. America has stopped doing hard things and promoting hard things. Climbing mountains. Sir Edmund and Hillary said it.

You don't conquer the mountain. You conquer yourself. When we push ourselves outside, mental and physical our mental and physical limits that's where true learning and growth take place that's why whoop that's what you're monitoring is my heart rate high enough am i out of you know you know my my resting heart rate good mentally you know am i pushing myself yes so you know there's a speech by jfk at rice university in 1962 they called the going to the moon and you basically said we will be going to the moon not because it's easy easy because it's hard and we had it in the trailer video for triple seven yeah and guys sometimes you do hard things just to do it just to remind yourself that you are capable

to get yourself out of a rut but when I speak to companies I'm going to tell you this the best leaders I've ever served for are in the military unfortunately some of the worst leaders I've ever served for are also in the military but it is the only organization that has a formal leadership development program, which is a progressive and sequential series of training events, coaching, mentoring, and experiential events. You can't teach leadership in the classroom. And the military is great about this. And then additionally, they push authority after you're trained to the standard.

They push authority down to the lowest levels so that you feel in power. And we do put servant leadership first and foremost, which basically people ask to summarize that, I say, it's we before me. It's we before me. And then lastly, what I talk about is, you know, people use the word transformational leadership a lot. And I say, okay, could you define that for me? And you never really get a good answer. And I'm like, well, let me boil it down to you. transformational leadership is turning to compliant.

That means if I work for Kristen, she is the VP of, remind me, it's the VP of performance science. Performance science. I'm the VP of performance science. You work for me. You will do as I said. Guess what? That produces the bare minimum results because you leave the room and I'm like, screw that lady.

I'm going to do the bare minimum. Here you go, ma'am. I'm not going to go further. I'm not going to take further effort to better the organization. but if you can turn the compliant to the willing, somebody who follows Kristen for who she is and what she stands for, know that she cares because people don't care how much you know

until they know how much you care. And especially, I know you care when you hold me accountable. Say, hey, Mike, this is below the standard of what we accept here. And you've turned me into the willing. And usually it's, you know, Kristen, you're leaving Wu. Where are you going? I want to come work for you.

That's transformed. national leadership. And so I talk about leadership. I reframe how people think the military lead because their perceptions are based off of Hollywood. We are now the 1% that served. And I shock him. I'm like, hey, how do you guys really think we led the military and I'll open it up? Like, hey, well, you just tell people what to do. It's the culture and they'll go do it. And I'm like, bare minimum results. Yes, that is true. At the end of the day, I'm an officer. I can order my men to go do something. But in the seal community, if it's a dumb order, they'll be like, Yeah, we're not doing that, Mike.

We're not charging up the hill. We can go around and attack from the back. And they'll override me. That's the beauty of the special operations community, which is distinct from the conventional military. But I tell them, no, we lead through love. And I love my men, and it took me a lot of reflection, a lot more than I hated the enemy.

I love my men and women a lot more. Now, there's a difference between like and love. I loved all my men and women. Did I like them all? Hell no. And not all of them liked me, and that's fine. We still had the professionalism to come together on Monday, get the order of what the objective was for that week, what success looked like. We worked together as a team, secure mission success.

And then come Friday, we went on our separate ways, never shall the two-pass meet on Saturday or Sunday, and we do it all again the next week. But for those that have parents, this may bring it home. The highest form of compassion is accountability. Chris and I know you have kids. If you see your son or daughter do something wrong, you step in and hopefully you do it with professionalism attacked and using theocratic method. And I know sometimes it's like, hey,

Caden, what the hell were you thinking that? And he's like, oh, this. I'm like, so how did you think I was going to end up? And he helped them sort of critical thinking come to the conclusion that they took the wrong actions and that's unacceptable. Accountability and standards are missing in today's, business world and society. We have to hold a high standard. And all you see is like people

just lowering standards. What an organ they just pass that? You don't have to pass math or reading. You'll still get your high school diploma. What message is that said? You either incentivize behaviors or disincentivized behaviors. And we have to hold our people accountable. Don't talk to them like their children. But if you set the standard up front with an organization, when people come on and say, hey, we use this method called accountability and we have tough conversations and we'll address something and we see you doing it wrong. And it's not we're attacking your character. It's we want you to be the very best performer. We want you to maintain the standards because if we allow those standards to come down, well, what you accept in your presence becomes the standard.

And so that really brings it home. And, you know, I was held accountable in the military by great leaders who cared about me. At the end of the day, for the kids, much like our employees, you want your kids to become competent, good human beings that contribute to society. But more importantly, have the ability, because you're not going to be there all the time, to stand on their own two feet and to be able to have the critical thinking to learn and grow in your absence. It's no different than my company. My job as a seal officer was to train the next generation to be better than we were to keep the organization accelerate. And the seals today, even though some of my generation will disagree, are better than we were.

They're smarter. They're stronger. They're faster. They're more capable. They just haven't had their moment yet. But when they do, they will rise to the occasion. We just saw them in the Sudan. They just near flawlessly just pulled out all the non-combatants out of there, all the Americans out of the embassy. And everyone came home. So I think that's a testament to today's force. But man, I love leadership. leadership development and culture, and it is a passion, and I love working with private sector companies. But the way to do leadership development is not a keynote. It's not in the classroom. It's actually experiential leadership development where we have something called Into the Wild Extreme, where we get companies out in the woods. Yes, it's doing hard things.

It's training. It's experiential. People see each other's weaknesses and strengths. They're vulnerable. Everyone's pushed out their mental, outside their mental and physical comfort zones. and that's where this concept of shared at university, the sense of homecoming and belonging are truly forged, because people will talk about that trip for years in decades into the future. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I think you hit on a, you know, a book my career has been, you know, studying high performance models and operating in high performance models. And there's no question that accountability precedes culture. Like, if you don't have accountability, you have nothing. And I think great team.

are, I think what, I think the question that always comes back, how do you inspire a level of accountability necessary to sustain excellence? You know, and that's kind of the, I think, what you're getting at, you know, is that there's an infrastructure that is required in order, you know, to, to create a culture that is really high performing. And yeah, so what are the components of that. So when I talk and when I start really honing down into leadership and culture is I say, hey, let's boil this down. One, we did a poll on LinkedIn of define what it means to lead. And you'd be shocked how many people said to manipulate others to your will. I'm like, whoa. I'm like, does anyone here want to manipulate others? If you do, I'm going to put you in

the narcissistic sociopathic realm. No, I want to inspire an influence. How do you do that? You do it through behavior. I had a Marine Corps colonel when I was young in my career. Marine Court has 11 leadership principles, the Army, Navy, Navy, Air Force pretty much have the same one. He said, if you forget all of them, just remember this one. The Golden Rule, he said, lead by example. Which if you want to look at industrial organizational psychology, they call that behavioral modeling or observational learning. Again, when you go back to your kids, it's no different. There was a 1987 don't do drugs commercial where a father comes into a room. the son's on the bed with

microphones on his ears or there's big old earphones and in the box cigar box is marijuana he says where'd you learn to do this the son dodges the question he asks again more harshly in the son looks at him and says I learned from watching you dad I'm learning from watching you. Parents who do drugs

have kids that do drugs so as a leader it comes down to behavior people will see people will be what people can see and so you're trying to create that culture you're trying to create that culture of accountability and standards, you have to lead by example. And if you do that, ultimately you start to shape the culture you're want. So if leadership is about behavior, what is

culture? It's behavior at scale. And it's not when the VP of human performance is in the room. It's when she leaves and her five people continue to work. What behaviors do they demonstrate when their leader's not around? And so, yeah, I love talking about behavior. And then ultimately, again, how do you incentivize behavior and how do you disincentivize others? Right. I love that. Yeah. I love the behavior as kind of the scaffolding, you know, because you kind of are what you do. And I think where I see some leadership programs kind of go wrong is, you know, I definitely believe that there is a pretty well-understood taxonomy of the physiological behaviors that enable you to lead, right? Like I think in order to, and that's where I feel

like we don't necessarily spend enough time. We kind of dive right into culture and leadership without actually talking about what behaviors help facilitate leadership. How do you actually create psychological safety in a room? Well, don't show up sleep deprived, number one, right? Like, you know, understanding the connection between your physiological behaviors and how you manage your psychology is everything. And it's like we tiptoe around that in organizations. And it drives me insane. So I wish, and this is like, again, you look at Stephen Kotler, you look at Simon Sinek, you look at Dan Coyle, who wrote the culture code. They all went to special operations units. And like you said, you love studying these high performance models or cultures. And human performance is

baked into all of that. How do we get the, the, how do we optimize the physiological and psychological component of performance? That is, I mean, besides like companies like Johnson and Johnson, you rarely see that in companies. This doesn't happen. And Kristen, I'm like, this is not turning political, but you want to know why? I think is because it'd be, you'd run into a HR legal, uh, uh, firestorm. Oh, that, you know, now you're getting. You know, now you're getting into my physical health and but no if you want to be your very best you've got to be physically fit one what does i say about you and again i'm not i'm not fat shaming we shouldn't even be talking about um but are you getting sleep you know what is your stress level how if you're

you are stressed how do we lower that because hey here are the impacts of your high stress your performance that it's almost non-existent and if you want to change behaviors it starts there you know with the everyday warrior we talk about three pillars Again, this was my journey when I learned when I spiral. Physical fitness, mental or emotional fitness and spiritual fitness. But what is the building block to the other two? What's the primary one? It's physical fitness.

It's physical fitness. You know, you do look at other cultures like Japan. They still implement certain practices in the morning where they do calisthenics together and they promote, you know, physical wellness. Personally, I think we need to return to that, but there's a good segment of our population that would push back and say, I'm not doing that, and that's prejudicial. Yeah.

And I always, you know, when I was coaching, I coached at the, I was a good one head coach for 13 seasons. And I would always tell my athletes, like, if you want to have a great empire, rule over yourself. And I love, you know, it's Roman slave, Cirrus. And I just, I love that quote because it just nothing, I think, sums it up better than that. like if you don't have control over your what is going to move around your physiological and psychological capabilities like you have kind of nothing in my view like if and and i think that that um i think that framework uh and kind of what those tenants are probably isn't pushed enough um to your point for all because of all the firewalls that exist um around you know what actually

folks need to do in order to get the best uh the most of themselves you know people lose They lose the strategic view of why we're here and why we're doing this. You know, I'm going to be dead in 30, 40 years unless I don't die on a skydiving accident first. But, and if I do, I'm going to go out doing what I love. If we want to change the culture of this nation, you know, you do it starts in kindergarten in teaching them about attributes and value. and principals, even in public education, and about human performance, and then increasing that knowledge and the depth at which we teach it all the way to 12th grade to their senior year

of high school. I mean, why aren't we talking about human performance beyond math and reading and science and all the rest in civics? And why aren't we teaching them how to maintain optimal performance for sustained period? of time. And same thing, you look at MBA programs. I remember when I got to my MBA program, I'm 39. They were calling me the old man amongst a bunch of 27-year-olds who were all smarter than me. I needed the help of a SEAL who had a father that was on the board of University of Texas to get me into the MBA program. I had to take the, is it the GMAT

with one week, a notice and it didn't know well. And that was the first test I had taken in like 13 years. And, you know, the dean of the school, in an open forum said, hey, you know, we produce leaders here in McCombs. And he talked about leaders. He kept talking to them like, ah. And so I pushed back against him. And I said, hey, sir, I'm going to push back against you on the whole producing leaders thing.

We're here for two years. I've not heard about a leadership development curriculum or methodology whatsoever. And I said, I have no doubt you produce great business practitioners. I think that's proven. But I would be cautious to say you produce leaders. Yes, you select leaders into the program, but what do you do to refine those? And they really do nothing. So we lack, you know, the education of the next best generation is the biggest deficit for our nation right now.

And it may not change in our lifetime, but guess what? We can put things in place now that change at 30, 40 years. from now yeah yeah i love that yeah i feel like it's uh definitely a call to action um you know i think about you know i know you have kids too and you think about you know what are they learning in health class you know what are they um but they they really they aren't getting any of this information really you know just have they once been asked to kind of sit down and reflect on their values not on what their parent you know what are your parents values what would you say your parents values are i mean that's a really interesting thought exercise right and then what are

your values. And you can kind of see when I do this exercise with my kids, like, you know, what they think I value and what they value actually is like quite different. And I say that's that's okay. Like, and this is, that's part of like the, I think, maturing and growing up is starting to understand like what it is that you care about, right? And that's when you actually can tap that intrinsic motivation, you know, like because you start to understand what it is that you really value and what do you really care about. And you start to align your behaviors with those values. But, you know, just that simple exercise, doesn't really happen in any sort of organization in a meaningful way.

And that's kind of the foundation, I think, of sustained levels of motivation and potential capacity and effective effort and energy production. But yet we don't tap into that. At the time, I didn't appreciate it. But, you know, I was always raised. We, you know, we went to a Catholic grammar school. I went to a Jesuit high school So spirituality was always sort of intertwined within the education

And I don't think I truly appreciated it Until I ended up in Marine boot camp Crying like a little brat Because my parents couldn't help me out and it was on my own And that's when life started to get real And I realized how important the spiritual aspect of life is And spiritual is different for everyone That doesn't have to mean religion

I think the reason we do What we do at Lacey Expeditions and get vets out into the wild is that I think nature is next to godliness. And for example, when I went to Nepal and went to the Kumbu region where we skydived in, I felt so small looking at the biggest mountain ranges in the world. I felt tiny. And I felt small in a good way. And it sort of made me smile.

And I'm like, you know what? I'm a drop in the bucket of history and I'm going to be more, I need to do more, I need to inspire and influence more people. It was just awe-inspiring in a good way. People need to get out there and the other thing too is guess what? We didn't have any cell phone coverage whatsoever in the Everest region. And it was great just to disconnect. We're about to go. We just signed an agreement with a company called Highlander where basically people just go out and hike anywhere from like i think they've got 15 all the way to 60 miles we're starting in big bear in may we do cow spell glacier national park in uh in the spring but the guy who started is serbian he was a bnx

professional uh red bull team and he's like people just disconnect people uh forge relationships that continue beyond the hikes yeah there's it's there's a lot of positivity in just disconnecting breathing and then engaging with people without cell phones and just again listening i love that i mean this is a good a good segue into legacy expeditions like maybe just explain to our viewers and listeners you know what how did you what was the impetus to kind of start legacy expeditions and um and then we can kind of get into triple seven expedition um yeah so a few years after i retired I was in great shape, but my hip, my left hip was degrading. And I actually did a photo shoot for Men's Journal the week before I got the hip resurfacing,

which is more intrusive than a hip replacement because they cut off half the femur ball. They've got to go through the glute. So it has a, yeah, they can correct word. And it actually is a longer healing period because they cut through the glute to actually do this procedure. It's called the young man's hip replacement. And I went, again, I was just, like, sitting on the couch. You know, my joints started to hurt in my elbows and everything else. It threw me out of whack.

Hip feels great. Realized now the next hip has to get replaced. But after about six months, I'm like, man, I miss doing what I did. I miss skydiving. And talk to a buddy who's like, hey, I'm taking a group to Mount Everest to skydive in, not on to Everest, into the highest drop zones in the world around it. And I'm like, bro, I'm in how much? He told me the price.

And I'm like, crap. And so went and got some sponsors and pulled it off in nine months, almost nine months to the day for my hip replacement. I'm jumping at like 22,000 feet on oxygen and there's Mount Everest in the corner of my eye. And we got six jumps in. It was awesome. I did lie to my buddy. He's like, hey, you're current on skydiving.

I'm like, yeah, didn't he's like, once in a lot. time you job and like three months ago and it had been like five months but he did hold training he did hold training in Colorado again following in special operations planning model buy down risk by making sure that everyone's trained in the standard yeah um and so I for I formed legacy expeditions then and then around that time is you know a few months before I left for Everest I called a buddy named Nick Cush real underperformer uh I don't know why I didn't hang out with this guy I love Nick so much. He's such a good guy. I never met anyone more skilled at building. I jumped with Nick. He was my friend. So I was going to ask, you jumped with me. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We've become like

just great friends. What? He was he. He was very professional on the jump. He was very professional. No, no, no. He was no. He was no. He was no. He was no. He was no. And Nick has built a name for him in the skydiving industry. And he trains a lot of the special operations. And so I knew that. I served with Nick in the Battle of Ramadi. And I know he was now this world-class guy ever. And I call him and say, hey, man, I call Andy Stump around this at the same time. Good old Andy. I love that guy.

He is one of the smartest dudes in the world. It's, it, it pisses me off. He can pick up anything and become good at it very quickly. It's kind of like Batman. Yeah. Andy is like Batman. He's a badass. So I say, hey, guys, I know this concept has existed for years, for decades.

and no one's pulled it off even like crown prince of Dubai tried it and they never even got to execution. I said seven continents, seven day, seven skydives. And Andy's like, yeah, let's do it. And Nick being in the industry, he's like, ugh, ah, let me think about it. He's like, this is a lot, you know, this consumes lives. It's a lot to bite off. It's a lot to bite off when we fail.

And he calls back a week later. He's like, okay, let's do it. 18 months of planning around that time we reached out. to you guys to monitor our performance. 18 months of just it consumed my life. My other businesses started to sort of

maintain suffer. And I had some great people in place, but I wasn't supporting them. Killing my wife, because all she heard was triple seven. By the time, like, even two months before, we did triple seven, she's like, I don't want to hear that word.

Oh, I could only imagine. Yeah. And we raised the money to do it. We were never going to have a private 757, so we flew commercial economy. And there's a reason why optics-wise, you're not going to have like nine dudes on the 757 while we're trying to jump in honor of our fall in and raise money for folds of honor. That was key. And so, again, we fold the special operations planning model, two training camps. You came to the second.

You gave a brief on performance. We conducted 800 jumps amongst the nine guys, mostly special operations veterans. that were going on the trip and Kristen there was still nights even one it was one month before we went I wake up at 2.30 and my life has to come me down like we're going to fail we're imposters like this she's like you're fine and fine I'm like no this is going to fail this is going to ruin my career because if I fail here who wants to hear me speak and anxiety yeah and Nick and I launched early as what we call an avon team and we got to That's Apuna Rainis first, greeted the team into Antarctica.

And I have a question after I tell the tale of Triple Seven about Antarctica. But Antarctica, we started there because that's the long pole in the tent, both logistically to get there and then weather-wise. So we were told, like, hey, sometimes, like, there'll be no sky for 14 days. So we had the probability of, like, the plan on jumping on January 9th, we may have not jumped until January 20. And one person had to pull off the expedition because of that variable. We were blessed, jump on the ninth, like literally an hour and a half before we stepped on to the 757, flew to, to Santiago, Chile, jumped in South America, then on to Miami, where the no-tam system for the first time since 9-11 shut down. We landed at 6.30 a.m. turn on our phones. All our flights are canceled. All civilian flights are canceled on that day.

Right. And you're going from Miami to Barcelona. So you had like the narrowest window. I remember it being just like. And this is what I love, this is what I love about high performing teams, truly high performing teams that are trained in adversity. First, guys are laughing? They're like, are you kidding me? Since 2001, this thing has never shut down.

And on this day, well, this week. We have a nationwide ground stop by the FAA. We knew we had to go jump in Miami to knock out North America. And so while we're in the cars, guys are like, okay. here's the problem no campus is shut down civilian flights are canceled what are viable options we scope the problem first decided if it was a big enough problem it was and i think it was the canadian uh glen cowen who's like hey let's let's fly private eh and i pulled my phone i'm like yeah let me USAA but we came back to it like yeah this only option so we we every all nine of us some other people started getting on the phones and we didn't want to do this but some good american step up and say, hey, guys, we got you a jet from Miami to Barcelona. And I remember, it's the first time any of us have pretty much flown private. And it's a G5, I think it was.

And the guys get on. They all take their season. Of course, like, you know, I put this whole thing together. And first off, I'm going to let Jim, the 73-year-old get a seat first. And it's me and Mike Barker, the last two. We end up on a bench. And, like, I don't want to complain about being on a private flight. But I'm looking at Mike and we're trying to sleep.

I'm like, Mike, just lay out on the. bench and I get on the ground. It was the worst flight. I was cold in the ground. I couldn't sleep. My hips throbbing. And we get to Barcelona, jump onto Cairo where that photo went viral of us over the pyramids. On to Abu Dhabi, which unbeknownst to the guys, I didn't let them know until we actually jumped and landed. And I said, hey, everyone, after we landed, they brought all their parachutes over. I said, hey, listen up. There actually was a six continent record and it was set in eight days something like six hours in like 30 minutes i said we just broke two world records one the sports skydiving in the tandem four days like something

like uh 14 hours in seven minutes i mean you guys were like let's go pack our shoots like that's what i was expecting we make to uh to perth australia we jump uh and like 30 mile an hour winds. I land in the squeeze. Two guys, the two most junior guys were like 500 meters that way, 500 meters that way. Everyone was sort of in a group and I was six feet from the edge of the drop zone

and probably about 25 meters from the X. The winds were crazy. Andy's giving me shit. But we rally. We set two more records again, the sports and the tandem for seven continents the first time ever done in six days, six hours, in six minutes.

and success was secured before we even left on that trip. We had, I don't have it here, but I had a triple seven playbook with the logo and it said the battle book, triple seven. And in really small print, it says

if this fails, it's Andy Stump's fault. But it had everything contingencies, everyone's passports, the itineraries, flights, everything, numbers, points of contact and again you know I hate to do this there was another group of what we call

white soft guys that tried to do it as well and you know when we were planning for this guys we come up and they'd be like hey why don't we do this when we're in Egypt and we're like hey keep it simple yeah this is something that no one's ever done it's a logistical nightmare it's trans global uh transportation and so many uncontrollable very well very I mean, it's just a weather and travel. We go to Egypt, we jump, we get back on a plane in leave. That's the mission. We're not going to go look at the pyramids.

We're not going to do this. This is the mission. You're going to get the best view of the pyramids. And we did. Oh, that was by far the best jump. We all thought. That footage is just. We'll link to that footage in the show notes because that is just the most epic view ever.

It's just, yeah, amazing. So this other group, like, they were. God bless him, dude. I mean, like, for having the guts to try. But they're like, hey, we're going to shoot machine guns off of boats in Colombia, where we're going to jump. We're going to put like a crane next to London Bridge, and we're going to do this and this and this and this.

And they didn't even make it to Antarctica. Again, we sort of solved, not the special operations. We followed the J-Soc model. And I came from J-Soc food plus a few others. And don't add complexity to something that is already complex. Don't do it. Keep the main thing, the main thing. everything else is icing on the cake, but if that icing on the cake has the potential to

ruin or detract you from achieving mission success, then eliminate it no matter how sexy it may be. That's such a great principle for life. Yeah. So just to step back a second, just to explain folds of honor, because, you know, obviously this expedition was really to raise money for folds of honor. So just talk about how this expedition really amplified folds of honor. kind of shine the light on on on on this charity and just explain what it means to you and

um and just the success in terms of how much money we raised uh it was pretty epic so folds of honor one there's so many veteran service organizations out there and everyone's trying to do such good work but for veterans the last i saw there's like 60 000 BSOs veteran service organizations that's too much noise so we try to find organizations that one have they good core mission, their charter. And two, put the majority of every dollar towards the actual programs. Folds puts 91 cents of every dollar towards their actual program, scholarships. So that means they exist off of nine cents for their operational costs, which is unheard of. The industry standard is something like 30 cents, right? I mean, it's pretty abysmal, right?

so a testament to larry robinson who was the man from folds who really backed us on this and dan runy for establishing this so they give educational scholarships to spouses and children's children of military veterans who either were killed in the war highly disabled and now first responders which we love because those first responders don't have many programs like we we do as veterans yeah and they're on the street every day dealing with the BS that we now see in the news. So God bless them, their spouses and their kids are more than deserving of it. I do have a question for you. Were you guys collecting our data in Antarctica?

Because we had no. Or did you get a data dump once we got back to South America? We have all the data. So I actually want, I'm going to talk through it right now and get, and kind of get your thoughts on just to provide some context. So, okay, so Antarctica to Australia with five. five jumps in between. All right.

So to start, your recovery metrics and sleep metrics just degraded, as you can imagine, over the course of the, of the expedition. And what was really interesting is that the total quality of sleep across all of the jumpers was an average of four hours and 25 minutes total. like some folks get that in one night's sleep yeah so that means like so this is across the seven the seven days so that means you maybe one night had 20 minutes one night you know glen had 15 minutes nick had 30 minutes like your total quality sleep was only about four hours over the course the entire trip so just imagine like that level of light sleep so the time that you did get to sleep was

basically light sleep. So there really wasn't a lot of recovery and regeneration because we know the magic kind of happens during that deeper, that deeper sleep, which you guys were really getting none over the course of of this kind of seven days, eight days. And we saw, in addition to that, we saw, you know, basically a degradation in your resting heart rate. So we're measuring that in the tiny moments that you have to sleep. We're kind of cherry picking your heart rate variability and your resting heart rate. And both of those were going, you know, just your heart variability was just basically plummeting across the group as well as resting heart rate. So your ability to recover was, you know, you just weren't really able to recover. And as in, and I think what the crescendo here is

like going into Perth, like when you look at your exertion, so your calories burn, which is a really nice proxy for insertion, you average, so your baseline. So when you're at home, your average, caloric burn is about is about 2000 over the course of the you know kind of first six jumps you are around 2,400 and then Perth you were 3,400 yeah so I'd be curious to know kind of so I have a couple theories so you know basically that time between abidami and Perth there was like the 15th and then that Perth was the 16th of January the 15th you're at 2,600 and then you know Perth is just wild, right? In terms, and I would imagine it's a combination of factors. You're super undercover, so your body's working very inefficiently at this point. There's massive cognitive load,

the stress of Perth just in that, the weather conditions, the wind, the anxiety of just wanting to kind of finish this thing, but then knowing that this thing is going to be over, like, tell me what was kind of going through the mind and maybe some details around Perth. Okay. So let me actually step back to Antarctica. Okay. And I know we, we do. didn't get to implement this with it what you call the blue blockers yeah so we were trying to do some chrono wear that was basically helping to kind of realign your circadian rhythms to just mitigate some of the deleterious effects that i'm talking about um so but yeah and i know i don't know i don't think those chrono the chrono wear actually got to you right so yeah no and where i'm

going with this is antarctica really threw everyone off so the 24 hours of sunlight right so You'd step out of your tent at 3 a.m. And it looks like it's 12 noon in Texas. Yeah, that's so a dismal. It's sort of like, what the? Yeah. So, and you'd have to walk to the bathroom, which was like 150 yards, 200 yards away. And I know, like, oh, poor us.

It reminded me of a deployment. So guys, like, their sleep schedule was off. And then, like, some guys were staying up until, like, two getting up. Everyone was off before we even started. Yeah. Now, we did have periods where we got, like, six. hours in a hotel room, but here was what, and again, everything I'm saying is an anecdote. Yeah.

But all of a sudden, like two hours into the six hour period, I go down to the bar and order some food, and guess who's there? Almost everyone, they're like, yeah, I can't sleep. Yeah. And, you know, especially in the economy seat, I felt bad for Glenn, because Glenn is what? He's the biggest. He's a huge. He's six, three.

And shoulders are like probably another five inches. And you saw him like in the economy seat. He was like, and nobody was sleeping. well in the economy seats. I don't think we were sleeping. Yeah. Well, that was evident. Yeah.

Very short sleep, very light sleep. Yeah. So, you know, I've been through sleep deprivation before. And it wasn't awful in the sense I think I was just excited to be around the guys. We were excited because we were on track. We knew we were going to set things. And so everyone had a positive attitude, but you can see everyone with a cognitive decline. and sometimes just sort of like zombie just walking in the direction they need to walk but

yeah no one was complaining um everyone had been through sleep deprivations because everyone's in special operations but um we got again we got like six hours in uh in abdabi nobody slept well and then we actually got to Perth the evening before we were going to jump and everyone got and not a full night probably like six hours but uh everyone was exhausted in uh in Perth Perth. I think additionally, we knew the winds were high, and maybe that spiked, I don't know, our adrenaline. The stress, yeah. Stress. And then we really, we really didn't get, at that point, everyone looked at me and they're like, hey, Mike, I'm not flying economy back from Australia to the U.S. That was the longest lay. I'm like, hey, fellas, I get it. If you want to go first class

or business class where you can get one of those layout things. I'm like, go for it. And actually, I had enough points on Delta. Everyone did it. I'm like, God damn it. And so I did. And that's where Doc partially then passed out. I don't want to it. It's the first time I've ever taken it. It was a sleep pill.

I'm not going to be in something else. And I took it and I was out for that 13-hour flight from Sydney to L.A. or whatever it is. And I woke up and I felt no real like after effect from it. I'm like, God.

Doc, that stuff is magic. Is that his sleep remedy? It wasn't his sleep remedy. It was something. Okay. Diasmapen? Prescription. Okay. Prescription. Yeah, yeah. But he wanted guys just, he's, he's wanted him out, and he knows it's not the best.

You know, I know, Kirk is not a fan of, you know, prescription sleep aids. Yeah. And Kirk is a medical doctor for folks who are on the call. Yes, yes. Here's what I'll say. Everyone powered through from January. first to what do we get home like the 20th after new york because then we're doing the media circuit we're drinking guys are having fun but i started to one i couldn't concentrate uh i was exhausted i started to get sick i get uh you know like sick you were like a cold get better than two days

later was another cold and it took me i think a good two months what i would consider to be again my anecdotal baseline of where i feel normal it took two months Yeah. I talked to Nick, right, a few days after he got home and he's like, I'm really struggling. So we basically deployed a circadian alignment protocol because that's what happens when, you know, on a trip like this, it is just, you know, when we think about, you know, when we travel, we experience what's called the circadian disruption, right? And that's when you're viewing light at a phase of when you normally view light. You know, light being the strongest kind of external cue that really. tells every cell organ and tissue in your body, like what it is to do. So when it's getting that at a sync of what you normally do, your system becomes pretty confused. And that results in, you know, being more vulnerable to illness and, you know, injury and, you know, making cognitive mistakes and not being able to sleep and just feeling low mood and low energy. And unfortunately, when you experience a level of circadian disruption that you did, it's going

that take time, you know, to recover. And I think a lot of folks, you know, coming off of, you know, travel, I think underappreciate how disciplined they need to be in these kind of circadian behaviors. So that's kind of one piece of it. And then the, and the second piece is is just really being patient through that process. And I think that that was the discussion with Nick and I trying to get them back a line around these circadian behaviors, you know, to kind of try to accelerate his recovery. But yeah, it was interesting talking to like Glenn and Nick in terms of just how low their mood was and how hard it was actually to kind of get back to neutral and back to baseline. I was, you know, I don't know if depressed is the right word,

but just yeah, down, just really low down mood. I mean, that was for two years. That was like your reason for being in a lot of ways. Like, I mean, it's just every day that was kind of your focus. Yeah, I mean, I think anytime you kind of finish a project like that, it's, yeah, there is this, you know, kind of let down, which is, I think, really normal. Would you say that you're kind of back to your kind of back to neutral or? Oh, oh, yes, absolutely. Okay. I've been working with, I've been working with Kirk on hormone optimization because they did take our blood work. Amazing.

included that I have the testosterone of a 14-year-old teenage girl. Okay, we want to finish that. Fix that. Yeah, it's okay. And then also working with John Wellborn on mobility and then strength. So we're about to launch a program where I'm going to try to get back to the health that I was in 2015 when I left the Tier 1 command. And we'll see if it's possible. We're going to do it in the Men's Journal.

But again, with Antarctica, because there's no. cellular whatsoever for the people that are listening. Was it a black hole until we got back to South America and then all of a sudden the data or were you guys actually? Oh, yeah, we collected data in Antarctica. So what happens is basically for three days, how it works is basically you'll collect data, even if you're not connected to Bluetooth, as long as WOOP is charged and on your wrist, it's collecting data for three days.

So once you guys got back to, I got a Wi-Fi signal, all of the data. from this draft gets pushed and then it appears in the app and then we can see it in the back end okay that's what i thought that's what yeah yeah so the only kind of short period of downtime was in abdabab we had just like a small patch of time that we didn't get but we got we got the whole expedition interesting interesting i would have thought egypt would have been uh comparable to that but yeah cairo we got yeah in the 13 we got we got all your data Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. So Mike, just want to want to, and thanks so much for all your time. I, as I was, we were saying kind of off, off camera, we were talking about how to stay sharp, well into your golden years.

Love, love that article that you just published. And you brought in Stephen Kotler, who I'm just a huge, huge fan of. But we'd love to just talk about longevity and mindset. I mean, I think the things that, you know, we started this conversation talking about doing hard things, you know, and, and, and I know Stephen has done work with, you know, getting people who are in their late 50s and 60s, like doing something really hard and how that actually changes your perspective on your own aging and your own kind of mindset around longevity. And I thought it was just like such a powerful article and reminder for everyone that, you know, this connection between kind of doing hard things and just your mindset with regard to longevity.

So to set the context for the listeners, NAR country is the name of the book by Stephen Kotler. And he's a, what, 14-time New York Times bestseller. Bestseller, yeah. NAR meaning like gnarly. So he taught himself at the age of, I believe, he's 53 to park skiing. If you don't know what park skiing is, that's like the part of the mountain where they've got all the obstacles that you could do stunts off of. And... to teach yourself to Park Ski at 53 is like unheard of.

It's usually something that, you know, young teenagers learn and continue on. And he specifically chose something so hard to prove that as you age, there's actual superpowers that you start to obtain or sharpen. One life experience, emotional intelligence, the ability, because your body can't endure as much pain, in the older years, you become more efficient in your movements and find more effective or expedient ways to pick something up. And he's right. And really what he's reframed for me, I think human beings sometimes are like sheep and it's like, you know, the societal sort of, you

know, belief that age you get older, you know, can't teach old dogs new tricks. No, he's saying that's wrong. That's because people, mindset-wise, buy into that law on 40. I can't teach myself to serve. No, you can't. You just have to be more effective and efficient and reflective about it. If you continue to fall, say, hey, that doesn't feel well. How do I change that? Because when you're a teenager, you just do it until you don't fall anymore. And so it was just, that really reframed it. And Rich Devaney, he wrote the book, The Attributes, a teammate, join me. I think everyone in their early 30s needs to read that book to actually expedite their learning and say, hey, like, when you get over the hill, which is just a number, like, learning doesn't

stop. And I don't know why, as we get older, we're like, oh, I just want to retire. I, like, I never want to retire. That's like saying I'm thrown in the tower. Totally. Like, learning and growth takes place. There's no better knows, no finish line. There is no finish line. In excellence, if you define excellence, I came up with a definition, it's the it's the commitment to continual improvement and learning, knowing that there's no definitive or end, like, finish line. And that's what, you know, Stephen reinforced me is that if you tap into these attributes that only come with age and wisdom and you utilize those to your benefits. There's nothing you can't do in your 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s. And Jim Wigington,

who has set more world records than anyone I've ever met, the 73 year old that was on triple seven with us is a shining example of that. Yeah. Now, did he have a hernia during triple seven and you didn't tell anyone about it? One is pissed. Um, my gosh. Uh, yes, but like it, my goal now is to be Jim Wigington when I'm his age. And right now I'm far behind where he's he's at so my message yet anyone is yeah listen to the podcast more importantly pick up the book but guys we're we're not done at 40 50 60 uh and if you even look at like i hate to take it to business most billionaires don't become billionaires until their 50s or 60s all right so it takes a while to to build to to success in anything and uh with this podcast the men's journal

Leverdew Warrior podcast. I just had Renee Maborn on who wrote the book Blue Ocean Strategy, which is like one of the top business strategy books in the world. I'm loving these conversations because it's like the Dunning Grueger effect because I have these experts in. I'm like, oh, there's so much I don't know. And my slope to enlightenment is going to go until 70, 80. And I'm going to get there and be like, oh, there's still so much I don't know. But hey, I give it my best shot. I love it. well thanks for thanks for sharing that

this has been such a fun conversation where is the best place for folks to find you uh god mike sirelli dot com f my life for saying that uh

eventually my my media team is run by Michelle Ballastros who's just an all-star and Will Sharmie who's an all-star who are you bet and the speaking bureaus are like hey man it's time

you're going to start your own website and I'm like god damn it well that's awesome well thank you so much for all your time today I really appreciate it Kristen good to see you again hope to work with you guys into the future we can't think whoop enough for all the support during triple seven in helping with the media to help us raise the again you ask the question right now we're at 1.25 million dollars raised for folds of honor and we're not stopping thank you to mike sirelli for joining the podcast to talk about the incredible feats of the triple seven team. Also, a big thank you to Mike for his service. If you enjoyed this episode of the WOOP podcast, please leave us a rating or review. Please

subscribe to the WOOP podcast. Check us out on social at Woop at Will Ahmed. If you have a question, you want to answer on the podcast. Email us, podcast at WOOP.com. Call us 508 443-4952. You can sign up for a free trial or WOOP at WOOP.com. Literally you get a free Woop strap in the mail, get to try it for 30 days, and then decide whether you want to become a member. It's an unbelievable deal we've never done before. And that's a wrap, folks. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green.