WHOOP Podcast - Fueling for Performance: Dr. Stacy Sims on Nutritional Differences Between Men and Women

Episode Date: July 21, 2021

Dr. Stacy Sims – a leading researcher and author who specializes in female physiology – joins the WHOOP Podcast to discuss the role food has in performance and how women should think about nutrition differently than men.  Dr. Sims sits down with WHOOP VP of Performance Kristen Holmes and VP of Data Science Emily Capodilupo to discuss why women are not small men (4:32), fueling for the stress (7:25), the underfueled female athlete (9:17), signs your missing the mark with your nutrition (10:41), intermittent fasting and meal timing (12:20), why men and women need to eat differently (16:54), managing sugar (20:33), sports drinks and gels (25:12), gaining a better understanding of female performance (28:11). Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

Hello, folks. Welcome back to the WOOP podcast, where we sit down with top athletes, researchers, scientists, and more to learn what the best in the world are doing to perform at their peak and what you can do to unlock your own best performance. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Woop. We've got a phenomenal guest for you this week, Dr. Stacey Sims. When it comes to performing at your best, we all know that exercise and nutrition are essential, but few studies, coaches, and products are taking into account one of the most significant factors at play, your biological sex. Here at Woop, we've been looking at the role hormones have in everything from sleep to recovery to even digestion. A key reason why we ask

members to identify their gender and biological sex when they join Woop for the first time. This week we're talking to Dr. Stacey Sims, a leading researcher and author who specializes in female physiology about the role food has in performance, how women should think about nutrition differently than men, and how women's hormonal cycles affect their training. Dr. Sims joins Woop VP of Performance, Kristen Holmes, and Woop VP of Data Science, Emily Capitalu, to discuss why, according to Dr. Sims, women are not small men and how physiological differences play a role in performance, why under-fueling is a major issue and can prevent you from seeing the progress and results you want to, what to know about intermittent fasting, meal

timing, and your training schedule. I found this one particularly interesting. And how you can tell if you're missing the mark with your nutrition by looking for certain signals from your body. Reminder, you can also use the code Will Ahmed to get 15% off a W-W-M-E-M-E-D. That is W-I-L-L-A-H-M-E-D. And without further ado, here are Kristen Emily and Dr. Stacey Sims. Hello, Kristen Holmes, Vice President of Performance Science, and I am here with WOOP's Brilliant Vice President of Data Science and Research, Emily Capitaluppo. Hey, Kristen. Hey. And we have a very, very special. special guest, Dr. Stacey Sims. Hello. I'm excited to be here and chat with you guys.

I know. I'm going to give just a quick intro. So folks, you know, get a sense of your background. But Stacy is the foremost expert on sex differences in exercise science and nutrition. As an environmental exercise physiologist, nutrition scientist, and an elite athlete, Dr. Sims has spent an entire career researching and testing how females respond and recover from training, heat, altitude stress, and various types of nutritional protocols. Stacey, I, we, M and I were stocking you, 67 published articles according to Google Scholar. Nice. Yeah. Insane. Insane. So just incredible amount of work that you've done, that you've contributed to this space. So, you know, in addition to being at the cutting edge of research, you know, you're an entrepreneur,

an author, a teacher, a coach, a mom. I don't know, really. how you manage to balance all of it. I think really, it's insane. Yeah, you're like, I don't know either. We just kind of make it happen. But I think what Emily and I appreciate so much is, you know, how you've used research in science to increase awareness, you know, frankly on topics that are totally misunderstood or not understood at all.

And, you know, I personally, you know, I've been a coach of females my entire life. You know, like I was, you know, I coached at Princeton for 13 years, the women's field hockey team. I coached at the University of Iowa for a few years. I was a student athlete myself. I played on the U.S. nationally for seven years. And I not once did I ever ask my student athlete where they were at in their phase of their cycle, nor was I ever asked. And it's just reading your research and just everything that you're thinking about and the stuff that we're collaborating with you on with our whoop data. It's just you're just really changing, I think, the paradigm around how we think about training and recovery and the work that you've done.

done. And I think it's, you know, we're only going to get better. But it's just crazy how far we still have to go as it relates to this topic specifically. So I'd love Stacey to start with your TEDx talk. Oh, yeah. And I, you know, this is really when, I think when Emily and I first came to know you is that I received it from one of my friends. And, you know, it's, you know, the title, women are not small men. I was like, whoa, what is that? Like, that's just the coolest title every. I was like, Whoa. And I just found it to be like such a motivating, like powerful summary of and just really open my eyes to how my thinking about recovery in nutritional adaptations and performance of females was just completely wrong. And anyway, so we'd love for you just to kind of start there to ground

the conversation. Yeah, well, I shouldn't say it was wrong. And a lot of people are like, oh, everything I do is wrong. It's like, it's not wrong. It's just we've been forced into this male lens of viewing it and haven't had the opportunity to think up by the box because we've never actually been given that ability to be like, hey, wait, here's a different way of thinking. So with the TED Talk, it came up because I gave a talk for the Royal Society of New Zealand here, and there are people in the audience who put together TED Talk, and they were so moved by the fact I was talking about sex differences. You need to do a TED Talk.

And I was super-duber nervous about it because I was like, kind of have to give background on me of how I got to be here, but then the more I got into it, the more I was like, no, this is something everyone needs to hear. It's like, it started as an experiment for myself, going through the same things that you were talking about. Like, as an athlete, I had no one asked me about my menstrual cycle. As a sport scientist in learning and doing experiments, no one took women into consideration. That didn't really dawned on me until I started asking those questions. So that's where the impetus, really, as an athlete and as a research scientist, started all those many years ago back in undergrad.

And it was just the TED Talk was the small platform to be able to like, hey, you know, you're a female athlete or you're a woman who exercises for purpose and you're working really hard and not seeing results. Well, it's probably because most of the stuff that we know and do, if not all of the stuff that we know and do is based on male data. And then you start looking at all the sex differences that come up from enzyme activity to proteins of the mitochondria to post-exercise blood pressure response. to how we actually fuel, where we use different ratios of fat and amino acids than men.

And all these small little things add up to women not achieving the performance potential. So when I start talking about it, people are like, oh, my gosh, that's me, that's me. It totally resonates. And I start all of my sex difference lectures with women are not small men because it's something that people can grab on. They're like, whoa, yeah, you're right. We're not small men. So let's talk a little bit about nutrition, because this is obviously,

an area that you just have really spent your entire life thinking about, would love to just kind of get your just philosophy on how to think about nutrition just generally for a female and how that might be different. And if you could kind of bucket it into an individual who's a competitor, you know, who's competing and I know that if you're an endurance athlete versus a field sport, like, you know, there's going to be differences, but, you know, principally, there's probably some higher level ways of thinking about it. And then if you're just thinking about longevity. So yeah, we'd just love to get your, you know, we'd love to get your insight into kind of what the, what the principles are

related to that. Yeah, I mean, when you look at all the diet trends are out there, they're all exclusionary. It's a way of like partitioning off things and reducing fueling across the board. We look at intermittent fasting. You look at the keto, the low carb high fat, all these hot topic buzzwords. When we look at data for women, it's different from what you have for men. So we know a lot of the outcomes for women are not the same and they actually are harmful. From a high level point, regardless of what diet belief you might have, it comes down to fueling for the stress. So it doesn't matter if you're a strength athlete, endurance athlete, team support. You need to fuel for the training stress because we don't train and get fit during the training. What happens during training is we're

breaking everything down, and your body's under an incredible load of stress. So if you're also adding in a non-fueling or poor-fueling stress on top of that, it's above and beyond the stress needed for exercise. So I always counsel people, regardless if you're trying to lose weight or you're trying to peak for a particular event, fuel for the training sessions, recover well from the training sessions. And then you can do a little. little bit of play with the rest of it. One of the biggest things in recreational female athletes is they're underfueling and they're in a low energy state. And the backlash of that is they don't lose weight. They don't build lean mass. They have poor sleep. So most of the time they think

I'm not training hard enough and I'm eating too much. So it becomes as a vicious cycle. And this is where we'll start picking up the keto, the low carb, the intermittent fasting. And it just compounds that low energy state. And it's endemic in men as well. Like we're starting to get a lot of robust literature out there about low energy availability in men. And the outcomes are the same for both. You have endocrine disruption. So women's menstrual cycle drops, thyroid dysfunction, men low testosterone. You have poor bone markers, poor bone turnover, so reduced bone density. A sympathetic drive, you can't get into that parasympathetic state. So you have poor sleep. It's all in a specific cycle. Again,

regardless, fuel for what you were doing. Yeah, yeah, I love that. Whatever the activity requirement is, you know, your feeling behavior should, yeah, should fall. Yeah, I completely agree to that. Yeah, that's a great overview. What are some other questions that you can ask yourself to kind of determine whether or not you're put in the right kind of fuel in your body

at the right time and, you know, what would be just some kind of recommendations on how to think about, you know, what those kind of signatures are? Yeah, one of, well, there are two really telling things. it's like that dead fatigue if you wake up and you know a lot of people like I'm always tired when I wake up I'm like it's not the kind of fatigue that goes away after 20 minutes a cup of coffee is that to the poor fatigue where every small little thing annoying where you know the dog barking across the street is getting under your skin like someone's standing too close to

but you know small little things really get to you yeah it's the inability to sleep well you're always waking up, you're tossing and turning all night, and then you get anxious and the depression. All of these are signs of that sympathetic drive where you just cannot get into a relaxed state. I mean, and that affects digestion too, right? Like, I mean, you have to be in a paracynthetic state to really digest efficiently, right? So there's, again, just this efficient side. Floating, GI problems, feeling overly full, craving lots of sugar and carbohydrate.

just in that fatigue state, your body's like, I need something, keep your brain going. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I mean, that's the biggest thing that people can be aware of. If you're having high stress during your life, that counts. That contributes to the overall stress. Yeah. So, Stacey, as it relates to low energy availability, and, you know, I'd love to hear your

thoughts on intermittent fasting. You know, that's obviously, it's wildly popular right now. A lot of folks do it. They swear by it. They feel like it's making them healthier. happier, you know, what, what, what, what's your take on that? I kind of laugh when I say that, but, no, it is wildly popular, right? It really is.

It is. But when you think about it, it's like, it's because we've all been so miscued of how to eat, right? So there's food available everywhere. And especially in the stage, you see people eating in their cars, living overseas. You don't see that, right? You go to Europe. No one's sitting in their car, really driving and eating a meal. Yeah.

And we're just so unconditioned to meal time. Whereas if you were to eat a proper dinner and then stop and then not eat again and breakfast, that's a good fast, not normal. That's why you eat 12 breakfast. But now you have all the training things of intermittent fasting, 20-hour fast, you know, you get a multiple day fast and then break the fast. But it's such an exclusionary thing and your body isn't getting enough fuel, especially if you are training for breakfast.

And exercise in itself is a fasted state. So if you're exercising in a fasted state and then contributing more into a fasted state because of exercise depleting everything, then you get skyrocketing cortisol levels and a catabolic state. And if you are not eating afterwards, you stay in this catabolic state that promotes all the negativity of a low energy availability, the thyroid dysfunction. And even if you're bookending your calories at the end of the day, you're still not breaking that catabolic state after exercise or you're not breaking the catapelic state when you first wake up in the morning by down turning the cortisol, then it doesn't matter if you're getting enough calories because your body is still

in a long-term breakdown state and you start having the same symptoms as well-end of scalability. And then for those people who aren't cooking in their calories or not bringing in enough and it's in this exclusionary of food, no food, the catabolic state is the predominant state And that is a super stressful state for your body. And you just get it. I mean, a lot of people can hold it for about three months. And then they're off the deep vent. You'll see people are like, oh, intermittent fast, it looks great for me.

I feel great. And then three months into it, they're like, what's going on? I'm putting on belly fat. I plateaued. I don't feel that great. Men, different stories. But women, three months is about as far as I've seen, women can hold an intermittent fast without having repercussions.

Wow. And you're talking like a 20-hour fast. Like what's the 16-hour fast? Like what would you say is the most eating away with? Like the overnight fast of dinner to breakfast, like you need to eat breakfast. And it's more having to do with the fact that you have that peak of cortisol right in the morning. Women are more sensitive to not having fuel as well because of chispectin. And our threshold for not enough fuel is different from men.

So men can exercise in a fast state. Kispeptin is perturbed. But for women, when Kiseptin is perturbed, it's a neuropatide that's very sensitive to nutrient status. And when it's downregulated because there's not enough nutrition, you get endocrine because it's responsible for stimulating that LH pulse, which is responsible for menstrual cell. So for women and men, it's a different story. And these things aren't talked about. Although I was pinged in a David Osprey podcast.

because they're now on there talking about fasting is different for women. I haven't heard the whole thing. But maybe the bulletproof coffee guys actually coming on board that men and women are different. Wow. That would be something. It would be something. I think I heard this from you, but correct me if it's wrong, but the difference in how men and women are responding to intermittent fasting

goes back to the sort of like evolutionary response to like what kind of condition would have put us into this not having enough food. to eat such that we would be fasting. And so, like, men, they're, like, evolutionary role was to, like, go and hunt. And so men respond to intermittent fasting by, like, leaning up, you know, and so they, like, put on lean muscle. They drop fat like crazy. It makes them, like, you know, agile hunting machines.

Whereas women respond by, like, oh, shit, food is scarce. Might as well, like, go into a conservation mode. And so we stop our period because we don't want to get pregnant if food is scarce. we preserve fat and we basically like hold on to our fat like crazy because we think we're starving and so women go into this crazy like low metabolic rate drop our metabolism like low power mode and so I think like one of the things I'm pretty sure Kristen and I had the amazing pleasure of visiting you in New Zealand a year ago and I feel like this is when we were talking about this you see a lot that like husbands and wives or you know partners will do these diets together

and that it's so frustrating because, you know, the women are, like, starving themselves and they're seeing their male partners, like, you know, start to look like these, you know, lean, sexy machines and they're just putting on belly fat and they're like, you know, bite for bite eating the same thing. What's happening? Yeah, they're like, what is going on? I'm getting tired and fat. And my male partner is, like, leaning up and becoming fit and, like, dominating all these competitions. It's like, because you need to eat differently. Yeah. better with food you know this whole like women are not small men but also like you know we're not

the female sitting next to us either you know like just because something's working so well for your body like it's important to look and not just be like you know it's working for my partner not for me so i need to like double down and do it better or harder but like listen to your body if you're not losing weight and you're you know you're you've ruled out that you're not totally botching the diet like it's probably just not the diet for you and you should respond to that by like trying something else and you know whether that's keto paleo you know cutting out tomatoes whatever the thing is but like um normally well i don't even know people know how to eat normally what is normal eating right is there so many different ways tell me i know what do you think are i get to

emily's point you know we are so different right you know even from from female to the next like we're all going to have kind of slightly different needs and respond you know slightly differently because we all have different gut biomes, but generally speaking, you know, what do you see women are deficient in generally? You know, you can think about vitamins, minerals, macronutrients, like, you know, kind of take it in whatever direction. Yeah. The older set, so older being 35 up, tend to have real huge problems with iron. And this is where it's not by the fault of not eating foods with iron, but it's an issue of core absorption. Because that's the time where hormones start to flux a bit and becoming more estrogen-dominate or things are starting

to drop off. And naturally, the cortisol levels are coming up. It also tends to be the time where we have a lot of external stress where women are starting to be or at the peak of their career. So there's a lot of responsibility in the workforce. They have kids that are growing up that might be, you know, middle school, high school, and all the stress there. They have aging parents. Super needy, those kids. And when you have that, you also have a lot of inflammation. And with inflammation, you have enzyme hepcidin that comes up, and that prevents iron absorption.

So people are like popping back iron pills and not getting better. And they're like, what's going on? What's going on? It's not because that, again, like I said, you're not eating enough iron is because your body can't absorb it until you would best. And we see a lot in endurance athletes who are younger, too, because they're not eating enough.

So they're not down regulating that inflammation. So across the board. How do it improve absorption? Just really trying to do nutrient timing where you're getting out of that catabolic state. Looking at ways to reduce inflammation. So eating inflammation reducing foods, turmeric, curcumin, which is turmeric, like ginger, looking at like blue spirulina, just a lot of the foods. All of those things really contribute from a phytonutrient standpoint. it. And yeah, it's one of the same.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Getting more of that plant-based stuff, you know, the wider the colors that you're consuming, the better it is for your gut and for total inflammation and everything. Talk about sugar. Sugar's interesting. What do you want to know?

I know. I mean, it, you know, gets a pretty bad rap, but sugar is good. So, yeah. There's a time and place for it. It's like you have people who look at sports products. Like, I can't have that. There's sugar in it. I'm like, if there's any time in your entire day where you should be having sugar,

it's like during exercise. Yeah. Forget about the whole like metabolic efficiency thing. You still need carbohydrates to start burning fat. Right. And then a little bit is fine. It's just people who come addicted to Oreos and need that like sugar hit every night at the same time.

That becomes a more habit than the actual idea of your body needs something. Yeah. Yeah, it's not as bad as people think, but in the States it is because I feel like everything has sugar added, and that's where you need to be careful. So again, it's like taking away, the step away from all the package stuff, which has more sugar added than it should. And then taking control of it. It's like, what kind of sugars do you want? Maple syrup is fantastic. Honey is fantastic.

Yeah. Agave, not so much because it's like high pork. So understanding and knowing where to put it. And if you like it, then you have it, but you just don't overdo it. Yeah, I think the timing of, you know, if you're going to have honey, you know, pre-workout is going to be ideal, right? Post-workout too, because you need to refuel. Yep.

So again, it comes down to like fueling in and around your training and then it's not so restrictive because people are always, you know, looking at the other thing that I really don't get is the ketogenic diet because you're excluding all the plant compounds that are so critical for your gut microbiome, which is so important for increasing inflammation, increasing BDNF to help with brain function, just so many things. And it's that exclusionary thing, right? So when I think about what people are looking for from a diet standpoint, it's like just what's Mike Mosley, eat like your grandmother did, lots of plants, not too much, you know,

all that kind of stuff. It's just simple. Yeah, I think that's such an important point you just made to where you're sort of saying, Like, you know, if you're going to have honey, do it around your workout. So it's like helping you get through the workout and then recover. Like people love this idea of like, this is the good column and this is the bad column. And that's such nonsense. You know, we can put cocaine in the bad column and like be kind of black and white about that.

But like natural foods, like, you know, things aren't good or bad. Like there's, it's about balance and it's about timing and fueling for what you're trying to do. So like, I think one of the things you do so well is getting away from this idea of like, good and bad, but like, hey, like, you know, everyone loves to demonize salt. Like, that's the other sort of evil white thing. Like, you know, most women are low on salts around their periods because we lose it in the menstrual blood. So like, you know, you want to increase your salt and stop thinking about it. This is like evil thing that's going to ruin your blood pressure. Like, it's probably why a lot of people don't feel great is because they're not getting enough. I don't know

if you want to talk about that. Yeah. So the, um, the blood or the high salt and high blood pressure thing is, again, one of those, it falls in a whole category as like the saturated fat. Don't eat animal products, saturated fat. If you're someone who sweats on a regular basis, salt is good, right? If you're someone who eats a lot of packaged foods, a lot of processed stuff, and still sweats a lot, you probably shouldn't add salt because you're getting enough in your diet. Yeah. But women and some men who want to eat clean and they never put salt anywhere, they end up with really low blood pressure and they end up with what we call orthostatic hypodiac. attention. So it's like lightheadedness to stand because they don't have enough

salt to create plasma volume to expand the blood volume. Yeah. So it's like, yeah. And there are some people who have a very heavy sweat rate. So they will lose more sodium than those who vasodilate first and don't sweat a lot. So you inherently know how you sweat or don't sweat and what kinds of food you eat. But yeah, the whole thing of don't salt your food. low salt diet doesn't apply to most people unless you have a family history or a personal history of kidney disease and hypertension. Stacey, there's a whole big old market around sports rinks and gels and bars and I think it's pretty well documented that, you know, real food is best. But what's your take on some of the supplements and, you know, just, you know,

the replacement bars and, you know, the recovery gels and all that? All that stuff, yeah. I always go, marketing is stronger than science in the sport nutrition world. Especially when you're talking about the myth of knitting salt tablets and electrolyte replacement. Even in Iron Man, if you're eating properly and you're fueling properly, you don't need to replace stuff. You're not going to sweat out all the sodium that's in your body. Your body has plenty of sodium stores. But if you're just drinking water or you're drinking stuff, it's high carbohydrate and high electrolyte,

you're not going to absorb it. And this is what people are starting in the problems. Or they're like, oh, I'm getting dehydrated because I'm cramping. It's like, you're not dehydrated because you're not drinking enough. You're just not absorbing it. You got that goose losh and stuff because when the carbohydrate is so concentrated in a lot of the sports drinks and the gels, then it just sits in the gut because your gut has this finite pressure that it can take.

And it either has to be pure water with a little bit of salt to absorb it or it has to be a very low carbohydrate electrolyte solution to absorb it. But most sports drinks are well above the range where your body can handle that pressure. So it sits in the gut until water can come to dilute it before it can be absorbed. Jail is notorious for that. You're taking a concentrated carbohydrate and dumping it into a dehydrated gut. Already reduced blood flow. There's not enough water coming there because it's going to working muscles.

And then your body gets a whack of carbohydrate. And it's like, oh, okay, now what? right so when people are doing an iron man shuffle or post race loading and gas it's like it's not because of the race it's because of the stuff that you ate yeah i could do like a five hours of podcast on it because every i could tell you everything that's wrong with it and go back to the basic seminal science of physiology when you look at how some of the sports strings originated they originated based on how your body physiologically absorbs fluid but then you get into the of one of the artificial sweeteners that Gatorade was using back in the 50s and 60s got

taken off the market by the FDA. So then then doubled the carbohydrate content saying, oh, it's because people need carbohydrate for their exercise. But it wasn't because of that. It was because of a mandate to take this harmful artificial sugar out. And then the marketing became strong. Oh, everyone needs carbohydrate while they're exercising. Oh, you need to have carbohydrate and then some fluid.

But now, it's separated out. Yeah. That's really interesting. I love your simile. Sports drink is like a sofa bed. It is. Everyone can relate. They like rock up to a relative or a friend's house.

Like, here's a sofa bed and like, oh, I'm not going to get a good night's sleep. It's not a good sofa or a good bed. Where would you say, Stacey, and this might be a kind of a good question to end on, where are the biggest gaps in the literature right now? Like, where do we need to invest resources if, you know, what are the questions that, you know, know, we still don't have a lot of clarity on that we must have clarity if we want to kind of move forward in a way that's optimal. Pretty much, you could redo every study from 2004 backwards, specifically women. Yeah.

And get really good data. Because, like, even the NIH didn't put out a mandate until late 90s, early 2000s, that you had to include women, and people kind of still find a loophole to get around it. and it's it's just medicine and sport science and stuff because funding is low or you can't really recruit a lot of women or willing to do a lot of stuff where they don't try to recruit women or the study's not designed with the idea of women it's designed with the idea of men and then maybe we'll include women but it's kind of quite a way where people start starting to focus okay we're designing the study specifically for women and if men want to come in then they can

yeah yeah stacey that's um you know one of the things that i'm so grateful to you for that i think like meeting you and familiarizing myself with your work has really opened my eyes too is just how much this research in females is missing and how much like like i feel like people go out of their way to like hide that fact right like we'll see these you know whatever newspaper will cover some article and they'll be like you know this you know keto diet proven to be the best way to train or whatever supplement, like, does this thing. And if you actually, like, dig into, you know, the actual research, the study was done in four men or maybe it was done enough people, but it was just done in men. And then they stick somewhere in the discussion that we excluded females because

we didn't want to deal with the confounding factor of the menstrual cycle. And that was, like, so acceptable for so long, you know, it really does mean that, like, for half the population, the vast majority of research that, like, gets quoted at us and, you know, that our training is based on actually doesn't really apply to us or we don't understand how it maybe you know needs to be modified to apply right and news outlets are notorious for just using the the third person pronoun yeah people yeah well who are the people yeah it's such an important question to ask and you know and i think you know going back to some of the stuff that you were talking about even earlier in this pod that like you know it's not just people but what are those people even trying to do like the

best diet for performance really matters on what performance means to you. Is it a power iron man? Is it a, you know, 10 minute power lifting competition where you're going to do three movements, but like. Right. And the feeling differences too, because you'll have this conflicting thing of no, timing doesn't matter. Well, all the research is coming out saying that timing doesn't matter is in strength training, but you look at endurance. And even in men and women, they're saying, yeah, timing does matter. So it's still that mixed messaging confusion. Thank you so much. coming on the pod and you sharing your wisdom with everybody. No, it's super fun.

Thanks for having me. I look forward to doing more cool stuff with you guys. Oh, I know. The questions we can ask are, well, as you pointed out, pretty much anything prior to 2004, we'd need to redo. So you can just start there. Yeah, exactly. Love it.

Stacey, thank you so much for all of your contributions to science and for your advocacy and just your passionate, just relentless. to help educate folks. You have an online course. You have an awesome website. You've authored books. We'll make sure we link to all of that in the show notes so folks know where to find you and your Instagram handle. And are you on LinkedIn at all? I am. Okay. We'll make sure that we have all of those good details so folks know where to find all your good work. But thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure. We love working with you and can't wait to do more fun stuff. Thank you to Kristen, Emily, and Dr. Stacey Sims for coming on the WOOP podcast.

If you like the WOOP podcast, make sure to rate and review the podcast. You can also check us out on social at WOOP, at Will Ahmed. We love hearing from our listeners. And lastly, you can get 15% off a W-WP membership if you use the code, Will Ahmed. That's W-I-L-L-A-H-M-E-D. Thank you, folks. Stay healthy. Stay in the green.

You know what I'm going to be.