WHOOP Podcast - Gut Health Expert Dr. Amy Shah | How To Reduce Fatigue, Cravings, and Brain Fog

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

Welcome back to the WHOOP Podcast How To Series! This week, Global Head of Human Performance Principal Scientist Dr. Kristen Holmes sits down with double-board certified physician, nutritionist, and gut health expert Dr. Amy Shah to teach you how to fix your gut through nutrition and lifestyle behaviors. Gut health is essential for energy, recovery, and immunity, making it a critical component for overall health and longevity. Dr. Shah reveals the powerful connection between gut health, hormones, and brain function, along with the tools and framework you need to impact your overall performance. The conversation dives into science-backed strategies to help optimize your health from the inside out. From fiber intake to morning sunlight, meal-timing, and movement, this episode will teach you how to fix your gut health in a matter of days.(01:01) Introducing Dr. Amy Shah, Gut Health Expert(02:56) Dr. Shah's Career: (10:43) What Is The Gut-Brain Connection?(15:21) Where To Start When You Experience Low Energy(21:07) Exclusive Offer For WHOOP Podcast Listeners(21:40) The Universal Rules of Gut Health(24:36) The 30-30-3 Diet: The Nutrition Guide For Your Gut(30:18) Exercise's Influence on Gut Health(35:11) Fiber: The Secret Ingredient To Longevity(37:23) How The Gut Helps Hormone Regulation(38:14) Protecting The Immune System(43:17) Refer A Friend To WHOOP(43:54) Reducing Inflammation (And How WHOOP Coach Can Help)(46:03) The Impact of Alcohol on Gut and Brain Inflammation(50:17) Can Spending Time In Nature Improve Longevity?(53:37) Does Food Timing Really Matter For Overall Health?(01:04:07) WHOOP Advanced Labs(01:04:42) Do GLP-1s Impact The Gut?(01:09:53) Intermittent Fasting: Online Fad or Recommended Path to Wellness(01:16:43) Where To Start: Dr. Shah's Best Advice For Regulating Your Gut(01:18:05) Thanks For Listening!  Follow Dr. ShahInstagramTikTokWebsiteSupport the showFollow WHOOP:Sign up for WHOOP Advanced LabsTrial WHOOP for Freewww.whoop.comInstagramTikTokYouTubeXFacebookLinkedInFollow Will Ahmed:InstagramXLinkedInFollow Kristen Holmes:InstagramLinkedInFollow Emily Capodilupo:LinkedIn 

The gut brain connection. Tell us what the heck that is and why it matters. Oh my God. Okay. I think most people don't know that in a utero, your gut and your brain are connected. I did not know that. And then when you grow, there's this interconnectedness of about 600 million neurons that are communicating with the brain. 90% of those messages are going from the gut to the brain. We always talk about the brain controlling everything. but it's like the gut is constantly telling the brain what's happening with our hormones with the inflammation with the food with the infections whatever we're fighting why don't we ever talk about that because we talk about like all these things to help our brain but really don't really even think of the gut to be involved we think of the gut it's like farting pooping

constipation gas or something like that that's it not immune function hormones inflammation and brain health But like, what do we do about that? Dr. Avey Shah, welcome. I'm so excited to be here. It's just wonderful to meet you in person. I feel like we know each other. I know.

I mean, I've been admiring all of your content. You're so educated. Let's be honest. You're a double board certified medical doctor and nutrition expert. You have trained at Cornell, Columbia, and Harvard. You know, you have just put in the work. You have put in the repetitions. You know the science inside and out.

And I think that's why you're able to, distill the science in ways that are that reduce all the noise and just leave the very practical tip. And, you know, I think that's why I think you're so successful and that people gravitate to you because you really do simplify, I think a lot of the complex science and you make, you make health, I think, accessible and exciting. So thank you. I got goosebumps. See my dopamine released from that because it's literally that's the point. I think I was in traditional medicine for so long and I felt like I wasn't doing what I really was met to do because there's just so many constraints in traditional medicine. Everybody knows it's kind of like all over now that there's not

enough time or space to do that. So I was so honored to be able to kind of move into a space that did not exist when I was in training to actually educate. Yeah. It's, well, you're making a huge difference in so many people's lives. So, yeah, I hope I hope you feel that. And you just take a moment to celebrate it because it's it's it's really extraordinary well we're honored to have this conversation today you know we we want to talk a little bit about the the just the traps of modern lifestyle and how how to maybe build a little bit of a framework around you know navigating modern life and and kind of understanding the traps you know of modernity and and how they make being healthy hard yeah so I and before we kind of get into that I

just love to back up a little bit, you know, you have lived the life of a medical doctor, you know, you're living the life of a medical doctor. And I always say that it's such a sacrifice in some ways, you know, you talked about your residency here in Boston, you know, just literally being in a, you know, a building all day long, never seeing the sunlight, notwithstanding just New England weather, but, you know, just generally. So maybe just talk about, you know, your career trajectory a little bit. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, you noticed along the way and why did you arrive at this place where, wow, we need to get this information out?

Well, it started, my parents are immigrants from India and they came to the country and about a year or two into it, my dad and five of his, he has five brothers. They all got this diagnosis for them, which was really devastating. They didn't know anything about it, but it was basically type two diabetes in a young, healthy fit looking thin person. And to me and to my whole family, it was like a big deal because we didn't really understand what this was, that it was manageable, that it was something, all that we knew is that my grandfather had died from it.

We knew that my grandmother had it. So it was one of those things that really was such an impact in my life at a young age and our entire lives where how do we structure the food and the life that we leave? and it was very cursory. It was basically like, how do you get rid of all the sugar so that he can live longer? You know, that was kind of like the way we thought about it. And I just thought to myself, like, what I knew about diabetes and what I was like learning in school didn't even match what he looked like or what he was like.

And so I was always really interested in how food seems to affect people in different ways. Yeah. And so I decided to study nutrition in undergrad at Cornell. It's come full circle. my son just graduated high school and is going to the nutrition school at Cornell. So that's so funny. Phenomenal. Congratulations.

I feel like at least we've impacted our kids in the way that they are interested in the subject. That's so funny. My daughter's going to be a freshman at my alma mater next year. No way. Yeah, this fall. Congratulations. Same. Yeah.

That's amazing. So I thought to myself, well, food obviously works in influencing the body. So I always knew I wanted to work and have food. influences the body or have like exercise and lifestyle and living. I still hadn't figured out the circadian part of it until later, like I shared with you in my Boston years. But I thought there was something there. And because I thought he was doing all the things right, but I wasn't sure.

So I was learning this to kind of help him and help my whole family literally at that point figure out how to eat and how to live. So I thought, oh, I'll go to med school to kind of put it all together because that's how it was in real life. It was nutrition, exercise, lifestyle, and fixing a disease or helping a disease. But it's many, many years later and trying to figure out what way to go, I realize that medicine doesn't do a great job of integrating nutrition or exercise into its recommendation. There's no real prevention conversation. You know, I mean, that's just the nature you just get folks when they're already sick. Yeah.

And we don't have time to talk about nutrition. So what I realized very quickly, unfortunately, through a lot of years of training was that there was really no specialty or no field that I could go into where I could actually talk about nutrition and lifestyle and medicine. And I tried all the different routes, immunology and internal medicine. And I thought maybe if I'd go out in a nurse. of private practice, but I really didn't feel like I was getting enough out there. And so I started to just write blogs for free as just a way to like share the information. And that's how it kind of

my journey started. Gosh. And then you realize like how many folks needed that information I can imagine. People would say, I mean, it's kind of like I thought about it. And I was like, yeah, they would just want to know my perspective, you know, coming from my background, maybe like, what do I think of the newest trends or what do I think and so um after I did this for 10 years where I would just would write for fun and a hobby really and then I would um you know share it with my patients and colleagues and then um after the pandemic during the pandemic I got a taste of what it would be like to work on this a little bit more and maybe flesh out some of these ideas and um share it on social And so right after the pandemic, I told my practice I was going to come back only part-time

so that I could have some space to maybe do some education. And that's when I really saw there was like a need for it. And that was like two and a half, three years ago. And that's when everything kind of changed. And you just, you have just taken off. I mean, how many folks follow you on Instagram? Between all of the different places, we get about 30 million views a month. That is wild.

Yeah, it's really great. Wow. Yeah. And it's all like free content. I have my book, obviously, hormone havoc. And I have a podcast now, which I will want you to be on. Amazing. And so I kind of extended out a little bit from the original.

But it's still really every day posting something that I think could be interesting. And sometimes I think it's interesting and other people don't. But then other times I'm like, oh, this is obvious or this is not, you know, everybody knows this. And that's what really is interesting. to people are useful. And I always go through the lens of could this make a difference in someone's life, like if they took action on this today. Because there's a lot of information we can give. That's like, oh, that's nice to know. But like, what are the things that actually you could do something about? Yeah. That's when it's. I mean, that is absolutely how I think about like my research.

You know, like I try to develop hypotheses and ask questions in a way that I'm like, all right, is this going to translate to real life in any way? You know? 100%. Because you can do all sorts of research that. just is never going to translate. Exactly. You know, what are just testing behaviors and strategies and, you know, how do they impact our physiology? How do the impact our psychological status, you know? It's so important. Yeah, I think so too. Well, I love that you're doing that and I love that you have lots of different, you know, mechanisms, you know, to reach people, you know, that some people might want to read. Some people are going to consume on TikTok. Right. I realize that, that you have to kind of

meet people where they are. Like the book reaches people that social media never did and vice versa. I think what's great too is like, you know, medical doctors are now seeing that, wow, there's something to this, you know, like there's a way to reach people, you know, a way to extend beyond just the hospital, you know. Oh my God, Kristen. So when I first started to do the blogs and I got so much pushback because you know and I know because you're from a lot of these institutions, it's very like, it was very taboo. Yeah. And it was very like what kind of quack, like only weird like. crazy black people go on the internet and share. And it was a lot. There was a lot of like, this is not serious. If you're doing that, like if you really want to, you know, that whole thing.

So, but now I'm so happy because all it seems to me from the outside at least that now the barriers are gone and that there's lots of amazing scientists and physicians that are on social that are really, I mean, you've opened the door, I think, for, you know, and made it and kind of normalized it. And you see lots of younger doctors who are, you know, going through the residency, you know, sharing their perspective on social. And yeah, I follow a lot of those, you know, younger doctors who are so passionate, you know, and really just want to educate and get things right. It's great. It's amazing. Yeah.

I love it. The gut brain connection. So tell us what the heck that is and why it matters. Oh, my God. Okay. I think most people don't know that in utero, your gut and your brain are connected. They're, like, touching. Okay. And then you grow and it kind of separates, but there's this entire-

Wow. So that's how it all starts. Yes. I did not know that. And then when you grow, there's this interconnectedness of about 600 million neurons that are left, that are communicating with the brain all the time that live in the gut. Wow. So like direct communication, right? And then we have our hormones that communicate. We have gut. byproducts that communicate. So there's about five different ways that we have just figured out that they actually communicate, but they are constantly in communication. And I think what's surprising to me that why I really started to get so interested in

that gut-brain connection is a lot of that, 90% of those messages are going from the gut to the brain. And so we always talk about the brain controlling everything. But it's like the gut is constantly telling the brain, what's happening with our hormones, with the inflammation, with the food, with the infections, whatever we're fighting. And so I thought that was like so crazy. I'm like, why don't we ever talk about that?

Because we talk about like all these things to help our brain, but really don't really even think of the gut to be involved. We think of the gut as like farting, pooping, constipation, gas or something like that. That's it. Yeah. Not immune function, hormones, inflammation, and brain health. That's not what we could consider it as. When I was in my fellowship, every single article we would read would be the gut immune hormone

neuro connection. And I'm like, oh, so they're all like one, kind of talking to each other all in that gut microbiome. And yet we don't ever think of them as intertwined like that. Right. So it was so fascinating to me. So I've always been extremely fascinated. But then when we go back to actionable, okay, great, interesting, you know, what, but like, what do we do about that? And how do we actually improve our brain or our gut through this gut brain connection?

And that's when I really started to see where nutrition kind of plays a role because that gut bacteria, that neural network, they're extremely responsive to what we're doing, what we're eating and what we're doing with our lives. That includes sunlight, that's exercise, and what you eat. And those are the messages that it's translating and giving back to the gut. Does non-food inputs impact your gut biome? Yes. Actually, so walking or movement is probably the best probiotic that you could be having. What? Isn't that crazy?

That's crazy. So when you walk outside or especially in nature, your gut bacteria, actually sense that and get extremely excited. And they literally dance if you could see them. And they produce short chain fatty acids, which, as you know, but people might not know, they're like the anti-inflammatory compounds, almost like ibuprofen for everything that's going on. So the inflammation, the brain inflammation, they go. And part of the reason you feel so great after you work out is because of that.

So you can double it workout in nature and you're getting like the double, Double whammy. Yes. I love that. And they also like gut bacteria and you know this, but I think a lot of people don't know this, that gut bacteria need inputs from the sun as well, but they don't see the sun because they live in this little like tube inside our body. But they understand when we're going out into the sun and they have clocks in themselves

and they get fine-tuned when you go out and get some light. And so it makes them healthier as well. So doing like a walk. in nature is one of the best things you can do for your gut actually. Yeah. Gosh, that's wonderful to hear. I spend a lot of time in the woods. Oh, I love that.

Is it your perspective that we kind of start with the gut biome in terms of, like, if you want to be healthy, if you are maybe struggling with your health or your energy, mood feel off, like, where does someone start? And is it with the gut? Yeah, it's the gut. It's the gut. It's where your hormones and your immune system. and brain are all talking.

So if you think about improving your gut health will improve your hormone health, your immune health, and your brain health all at once. So if you're like, where's my biggest bang for my buck, that's where you would start. I love that. And you outlined this so beautifully in your book. How long did you work on that? Oh, my gosh. So the concept of the gut-brain connection and how we can use that in real life, that's always

been something that I've been interested in. but in the realm of women's health, it has been something that I think so many women are looking for because we're looking for solutions, especially for women who are in midlife or going to pari menopause and menopause. And so about two and a half years ago, I started to notice really quickly with my social that the women were the ones that really wanted some information about how to improve their lives, especially during that time of transition. And I thought, wow, this is a really big, actionable area that people can actually see a difference. And you should always be doing this,

but really see a difference. So I thought, what an awesome opportunity to really introduce these concepts. And, you know, every book, I feel, I would say, you know, 90% of the books are written with a male perspective and were male protocols in mind. You know, truth. be told, all the research is really based on men, at least older research, right? And so it's really difficult to kind of piece out what could actually be actionable for women. And so it was really fun for me to kind of try to navigate that more towards a women's protocol. And then everyone can use that for themselves. But it was fun to talk to women directly rather than being like we're just going to adapt this to ourselves. Right. Like,

Most of, I don't know about you, but most of my training, you know, exercise, training, nutrition protocols, everything would come from like male research or male doctors or male leading scientists. And then I would like try to like modify it to fit. Yeah. And that's how it always was. And so it was fun to kind of do it the other way. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I was a, well, I was an athlete in college. And then I played in the U.S. team and then I coached women for 16 years. at Division I collegiate level. Was it hockey? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've been, you know, responsible for, you know, the physiology of women for a very, very long time. And I think what we're learning now is that, you know, a lot of the principles associated with, you know, hypertrophy and muscular endurance and, you know, just raw strength and and cardiorespiratory fitness, like a lot of those principles are the same, you know.

Overall. Yeah. That said, you know, women. do have unique, you know, we have periods, we have, you know, like there's just, and I, and I know there's a lot of like, no, we're not cycle-sinking anymore, you know, but the fact is, you know, women do have different mood energy levels. I think what exercise physiologists don't understand and don't talk about, and this is why I'm a psychophysiologist, and I look at both sides of the equation, you know, sleep is a huge factor, right? And that does change across the month, you know,

and it just changes generally, right? And I think that's not always considered, right? When we're, when we're trying to, you know, program and figure out, okay, what are we trying to, you know, what's our performance goal here and how are we going to modify our training to, you know, achieve this performance goal whilst considering all these other variables, right, that are important. Yeah. And I think there actually is a lot of pushback I've noticed in the exercise and nutrition world against kind of making women's specific protocols. Yeah.

But what I... Why is this like so... I think it's a charged topic. Yeah. But we know, for example, women. produce different heart plaques and have different heart attacks than men. So we do have data on that. We have clear data that men throw usually really big clots and they often get sudden crushing left side of chest pain that goes down the arm. Women do not present like that. And the research

now shows that they have different clots. They're more smaller. They're microvascular. And so when they get a heart attack. It feels more like anxiety, you know, jaw pain. Sometimes it feels just like you're off and you're not feeling well. And so they get missed 50% of the time because they're presenting differently. And this is why women have higher rates of mortality associated with cardiovascular. And so we have that data. And I think what's happening in the exercise and nutrition world, it's like we don't have enough data to say they're so different, but I'm pretty sure that we will in the near future. And right now, I agree that you can't, everyone is a little bit different.

Yeah. But there are some universal rules that seem to govern women's bodies. And we're, you know, definitely feel different at different times of our cycle. And definitely during perimenopause and menopause have specific issues that many, many women suffer with. And so I do think that there's going to be more information about that. And then we can be even more specific with the protocols. I love that. What's up, folks, if you are enjoying this podcast or if you care about health, performance,

fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop. That's right. You can check out whoop at whoop.com. It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain, and you can now sign up for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just at woup.com. Back to the guests.

You mentioned, you know, I think there's just huge variability, right, for all sorts of reasons between people. But would you say, you know, you kind of mentioned these universal rules? Like if we're really trying to improve the gut biome environment, what would you recommend? I know you talk a lot about FIRA. Yes. You know, what are just some like high level, you know, some of, you know, some of the gut biome environment, you know, and our listeners can be like, ah, okay, you know, this is how I need to think about it. And how does it differ for men and women, or is it the same?

Yeah. Okay, so I'll start with universal overall things. Perfect. Definitely the food because, okay, the number one way you can change your gut microbiome is actually transplanting it. And so there's actually great data. The fecal transplant? Yeah, like a fecal transplant.

So not fun for to think about. But if you transplant. I know someone who did it. It was life changing. It's life changing. It actually cures incurable diseases. So if you take just the gut bacteria from one person organism to another, you can change their entire mental state. So they've done it with schizophrenia.

Like schizophrenia taking just the gut bacteria and transplanting it. And these are in animal studies because that would be not something that you can really do in humans. But they were able to transplant it out and transplant it in based on the gut bacteria that you get. They did nothing to the brain. Right. It was just the gut, and it could change you that drastically. And there have been cases. Is this mouse models?

Mouse models, yes. And so what they did is they took mice that were germ-free mice, and they put in gut bacteria from patients who had schizophrenia and patients without. And they observed them. And they saw that the mice were completely different. the researchers could tell 100% accuracy because the mice were displaying schizophrenic behavior. That's wild. Isn't that wild?

Yeah, that is. And so it's very exciting and promising when you think of mental health in general, because, you know, what else can we do? I mean, now there's models for depression. There's models for ADHD, autism. So there's a lot of potential there. But one, the FDA has banned fecal transplants except for, one condition. It's a Clostridium difficile infection that is kind of incurable, except for using

the fecal transplant. But the second best way and very quick way of changing your gut microbiome is through food. And you can do that within 48 to 72 hours. And so it's crazy. Yeah. It's really incredible that you can do that. So that's kind of the universal fecal transplant would be like number one. Number two is food and number three is, you know, exercise, that we get into exercise and like light. Yes. Those things are absolutely great inputs for the gut. But the food part is really sad because the way our food system is constructed without any regard to the gut microbiome, it's basically inadvertently, or, you know, I'm not sure,

you know, conspiracy theory. Yeah. We're killing, I think we have 50% less gut bacteria than we did a couple of generations ago. And we know that because hunter-gatherer groups all around the world still have 50% more gut bacteria than the modern American. Yeah. I mean, isn't that crazy? Wow. And these bacteria literally run our hormones or immune system and our brain health.

Isn't that crazy? 50% less. And now is this a diversity, like a food diversity? issue or like a quality issue? Both. So the problem is mostly that I guess the big problem is ultra-processed foods. They're devoid of fiber. Right.

So that's the place to start. Just like try to eat. I mean, it's so hard because I mean, I have. Yeah, your protein bar, you know, so it's very difficult. But just to have a few more fruits and vegetables and whole foods into your diet. So that's why we talk about the 30-33 and I'll get into that. It's like the fiber part won't happen if you're eating ultra-processed foods. It kind of forces people to include things like raspberries and pears.

And these are like high fiber foods that can get you there, get to 30 grams pretty easily. And 30 grams is what the research says. So the research says 25 to 35 for women and 30 to 40 for men to actually feed your gut bacteria. And about 95% of Americans are not getting even half the recommended amount. 95% of Americans are only eating 15 grams of fiber a day. And we need 30. Wow. It's insane.

And is all fiber created equal? So like I know, for example, tortilla. Yes. I get this mission tortilla and it's like 16 grams of fiber. Is that really like doing what it needs to do? No. Or should I count that as like three grams of fiber? Yeah.

You don't want to get all your fiber from emission high fiber tortilla. But there's good studies that show that even adding five to seven grams of fiber a day, which is like a pair or raspberries, could extend your life by 10%. I mean, like it is all cause mortality is reduced when you just up your fiber just a little bit. That's wild. Okay. So what are the best fiber-rich foods? So I mentioned a couple. So raspberries, berries in general, but raspberries are like the highest.

And then pears, kiwi fruit with the skin on. Have you tried that? Yes. I like love the skin. I don't know if just I do. I do too. And also if you don't like it, you can like slice them really thin. Yeah.

It's kind of a idea. And one beat so bad. Chia seeds, it's great because this whole concept of adding five to seven more grams, that's one tablespoon of chia seeds. So like add that one thing and you could change your life expectancy, well, theoretically, right, from that. That's just insane. So that's, those are some of my favorites. And then, of course, you know, we are eating such devoid, like people think a salad is high fiber, but it's not. Right. Most salads are two to three grams of fiber. Yeah. And so I, myself thought to myself when I learned about this, I thought, wow, I'm really eating very little

fiber because I would eat, I would eat like, you know, a salad or something a day and maybe I'd have a little bit of fruit here and there. But I wasn't getting nearly enough. And so it's, I feel that if you're educated about this, like our conversation right now, now you're going to be like, oh yeah, that would not be so hard if I actually thought about it. Like maybe I'm adding, you know, chia seeds or flex seeds or, you know, to my oatmeal or whatever it is. Maybe I'm snacking on something like an ap, you know, kiwi or raspberries or blueberries. But it's not so hard if you know. Yeah.

And you're just kind of conscious of it. Yeah. And then the other gut brain connection, the real magic for gut brain connection is fermented foods. It's one of the only foods or the foods that could modulate the brain the most. And that is something we are not getting at all. Yeah. It's part of every single culture in the world. They found fermented foods because it was necessary.

Right. So back before refrigerators. So kimchi is like, I have that daily. You do? I do. That's amazing. The Korean kimchi is like so good. I love that.

I just have a couple spoonfuls. Yeah, that's perfect. Kimchi, sourcrow. Even something simple like a raw apple cider vinegar or a kefir or yogurt or kata cheese, the probiotic kind. Those are all really easy ways to incorporate. fermented foods into your life. But if you didn't know, you wouldn't know, right? So I think that's our problem here is like the food companies that are creating better for new products don't

really know about this. The government clearly is not very, you know, at least is not informed about this. And we're left with kind of school lunches, you know, fast food meals and ultra-processed foods that is moving us away from a healthy, that brain connection. So that's like the universal truth. And then your field, your love, I think exercise and sunlight, I think that part is something that is also a universal truth. I think women even more than men, I think in that sense, are sensitive to sleep patterns and stress, you know, the de-stressing aspect of sun and nature. So I emphasize that a lot, especially for female-specific protocols and especially in perimenopause and beyond.

because we're a little more wired for that stress response. And so doing things like consistent sleep schedule, like getting more sunlight in nature, is going to do more than anything else for that stress. I just submitted a paper yesterday. So fingers crossed, it gets in. But basically what we're seeing is that the amplitude of heart rate. So, you know, when you think about the circadian amplitude, so the peaks and the troughs, So the flatter the nighttime amplitude in a woman, it basically predicts the severity and frequency

of menstrual and menopausal symptoms. Wow. So there's this idea we want to preserve our amplitude, right, through exercise, you know, and the right kind of exercise, right? Like, you can talk about that. And obviously, lots of sunlight. Yeah. And just in regular sleep wake time.

Like, you know, these are just things. that will impact, you know, the amplitude of our rhythms. And, you know, and when we have flat rhythms, we are so susceptible to everything. Yeah. You know, every sort of disease, illness, injury. Yeah. To your point in your research, I got criticized because I said something like, many people will notice that they're symptoms of pre-monthal syndrome or perimenopause or menopause. go away when you are actually managing your sleep, stress, sunlight, food. And even though there is this thing physiologically going on, you're able to manage it. For sure. Yeah. I mean, that's what we see. I mean, these are what the data show. You know,

the more amplitude, the less people report having trouble, right? It's not saying that there's not something going on. Yes, you know, there's a role for hormone therapy. There's a role. There's a role for medication. It is amplified with, you know, by your behaviors, what your choices. You can actually almost kind of get, like for me, what I tell women is like 35 and up, you're going to start to get symptoms of paramedipause or often you'll feel some of those early symptoms, which often will be sleep disturbances, which will be mood issues, a worsen PMS or change cycle, right?

These kind of things are very manageable with sleep. and sunlight and food and exercise. And so that early place is really a great place to start implementing some of this stuff. And we see that these sleep disturbances are happening four years before the first reported symptom. Oh, I know. I'm one of those people. I had no idea what was going on.

I thought that it was my life. And that's why we, it's so funny as a physician, I'm saying this, because it seems so silly, but most people are dismissed for years and years and years and just, oh, you're just busy, you're just aging, you're just this, you're just that. And we don't understand what's happening. And what happens is then you don't manage it because you just think that something, it just must be life. It must be just, you know, oh, this is how life is when you get older, you know, that. And so you don't actually take action on it because you think that it's been dismissed by the doctor, so it must not be that important, you know?

Yeah, exactly. It's really sad. And I think that's where, you know, modern life makes it really hard. You know, we have access to food and light 24-7. And so it makes it harder to adopt a lot of the protocols and just lifestyle that you're suggesting, you know, because it's just modern life normalizes just constant access to food and light. I mean, we talked about our teens, right? And so this is like the perfect example because they're indoctrinated into this new world of our, working all night, you know, staying indoors and eating all these processed foods.

Like I'm constantly educating my kids, not necessarily about like you need to eat this, but just that, hey, this is what light can do for you. This is what a sleep schedule could do for you. This is what eating a few healthy foods throughout the day. I'm not looking for them to go and cook their own meals or help or be with me and eat all these healthy things. But at least if you're incorporating a few, at least fiber-rich for me, food, then you can counteract some of that.

Yeah. So just to close out the fiber, because I think that that's probably the most important takeaway for our listeners, frankly, because to your point, you know, 90% of Americans are not getting enough fiber. That's just insane and not even close to reaching the fiber, you know, guidelines. Cillium Husk. Any of the kind of like, I don't know if that's a supplement per se, but would you, is Cillium Husk a good fiber?

Yes, it's a great fiber. So the problem with, for example, chia seeds is that even though they look soft when they're soaked, they can be a lot of insoluble fiber. And so the nice thing about cillium husk is that it gives you a bunch of soluble fiber. So not to get into too many details. And I think that it's not even that important. It's more important just to get some fiber. But I think there's different types of fiber and the best thing you can do. So studies found that 30 different types of foods every week is the goal.

So it could be spices. It could be seeds. So spices count like three. Three spices count as one. Red peppers. Yes. Okay. The three spices count as one food.

So like you could do like 10 spices or 12 spices and get four foods out of there. But then you could do different fruits, different vegetables, different things. different things throughout the week. So it's kind of saying that your gut likes all types of fiber and it wants to see different types of fiber. It thrives. Certain bacteria thrive on different types of fiber. So the more you can mix it up, the better. But that's all really advanced stuff. I think even getting fiber is like a big thing for primary goal here. Yeah. I literally told someone yesterday, I said if you just add berries to your breakfast every single day, this is going to make a you difference in your health. And so like just something simple. Yeah. And just and I love,

you know, on your Instagram, you know, you talk about this. Just, you know, not, you don't, I feel like you don't overwhelm people. You know, just like just do one thing. Yeah. You know, just add berries to your yogurt in the morning. Yeah. That's it. Just as something very simple. It's a place to build on. It's a place to build on. Yeah. I love that. All right. Is there anything else with the gut that you feel like our listeners should know about? One of the things I'll definitely say about the gut is like if you are a woman or a man actually and if you really want to optimize your hormones that is the place to do it because I think that we talk a lot about estrogen and progesterone and for men we talk a lot about testosterone but we don't really tell people how to like

you know optimize their own factories of making these hormones and clearing them out in the proper ways and the gut does a lot with conjugating estrogen removing or recirculative it when it does. There's a whole group of gut bacteria called the esterbalome that actually their whole role is to manage the estrogen and take it out of the system or recirculate it. And so I think when we talk about hormones, we really do have to talk about the gut as well. Talk a little bit about gut and immune health. Yeah. Because that also isn't maybe talked about enough, you know? Yeah. So your immune system is literally there in your gut. Most of it lives there. and it's constantly making decisions with the gut microbiome.

By the way, the gut bacteria is talking to our immune system. That's why that 50% loss of gut bacteria is a really impact on our immune system. And no wonder there's been so many immune, autoimmune issues coming up in the modern world. It's like we just don't have enough. Do you hear it that? So over generations, you'll get. So if you have a mother. who is super deficient, has a really bad gut biome, you're going to give that to your kids.

That's right. And that's why over generations it starts to decrease. And yes, you could be the change maker, though. Yeah. You could be the one who says, you know what, I'm going to change this. And I'm actually going to eat a ton of fiber fermented foods. And I'm going to stop eating so much ultra-processed foods. And then you change it for the generations below you.

That's phenomenal. And also it's contagious, like, quote, unquote, contagious in a sense that the people that you spend the most time with share a microbiome that looks just like yours and even more so than if you had an identical twin. And so identical twin studies, they're separated at birth. They look at their gut microbiome and it doesn't look the same anymore. Wow. It basically comes different. It basically becomes closer to your habits, your life cell and the people that you're spending time with. Wow. So which is another reason you should spend time with good people.

Yeah. That's so interesting. You're taking there. So just your social connections impact the quality of your bio. You don't realize. Independent of food. Independent of sharing food. Sharing food obviously amplifies that.

Right, right, of course. And this is a stress thing likely. Like, you know, if you're around people who are really good to you, you get that, you know, the parasympathetic activation, you know, the rest and digest side, which probably is more conducive to digestion. Because I would imagine if you're stressed, like even if you're eating good foods, that process is compromised in some way. But you get gut bacteria from people even if, for example, you know in the obesity studies, if you live with someone who is obese, you get some of their gut bacteria and then you start to extract calories differently. So there's a lot of like data that a lot.

Athletes, this is, you'll love this. athletes have a different profile, a different gut bacteria profile than non-athletes. And you can people, I think there's a company in Boston that actually gives, it's taking the microbiome from elite athletes, packaging them as pills, and you could take it. And because the gut microbiome, presumably, you know, you could kind of seed some of that into your gut and get this elite gut profile. That's insane. And it's like fecal pills.

Like how desperate are you to get better at? Does that come with any risk? Of course. So the problem with any kind of transplanting of the gut is that you're transplanting a lot of things that we don't even know. For example, there was a guy who was getting fecal transplants from his mother. and he started to develop hot flashes. And they weren't transplanting hormones,

but it's like the gut bacteria carries a lot of things with it, like immune cells and hormones. Wow. That's why I think there's so much fear in the gut microbiome is like, it's like we don't know this whole universe, and so we could be transplanting a lot of things, and definitely immune cells. So your original question about the immune system,

we basically know that direct, communication between the gut bacteria and our immune cells. And then our immune cells actually create cytokines inflammatory, like IL-6, that go to the brain and all over the body to signal an alarm that there's something going on, which is inflammation. And so when this, the perfect example is, you know, for three days in a row, you're eating foods that are drinking alcohol, or eating foods that are ultra-processed. And so what the immune system does is that they send out signals to the rest of the body that, hey, there is a threat.

We're dealing with something that is foreign or, you know, poison. And we need help. And so they recruit other immune cells, and that's what inflammation is. And that's why you feel puffy or tired or brain fog and all the signs of inflammation is coming from there. God, that's really, it's really fascinating. From beach days and backyard barbecues to workouts and recovery, summer is better with friends. That's why now is the perfect time to invite a friend to who.

Through July 7th, refer a friend. When they become a member, you'll get two free months added to your membership. They'll get started with one month free, gaining personalized insight into their sleep recovery and overall health. whether they're looking to build healthier habits or perform at their best. Whoop helps make the most of every day. Open the whoop app, grab your referral link, and start your strongest summer together. When you think about the whoop data in particular, there's no question when we look at health outcomes. Individuals who kind of meet a strain target, you know, they're moving appropriately in relation.

So basically strain is calculated. your strain goal is calculated based on your capacity, based on your recovery, right? So if your recovery is compromised, we're not going to tell you to like go and run a marathon. Yeah, so there's just this really beautiful balance between strain and recovery, right? And when people listen to our strain coach, which is based on your capacity, there's likely this reduction in inflammation, right? That kind of keeps you in a, it creates conditions that allow you to consistently train, right? Which obviously has huge health benefits.

So people meet strain targets and are listening to strain coach get better. Is there just using that as kind of a framework? Are there any other biomarkers and physiological markers that you would say are really correlated, highly correlated with the gut biome? Well, you know, when you look at inflammation and hormones and so all of those things, when those things are not working properly, that gut brain immune hormone connection, you'll see those universal signs. You'll see your HRV is very low.

Your resting heart rate is high. Your sleep quality is poor. And so that is the direct connection. And so when you start to fix that, you start to see improvements and all of those things. But interestingly, that's why the same things that improve your hormones are the things that improve your immune system, that improve your brain health, and they're all intertwined. And my argument is that or research arguments is that that's all happening together in the gut. Right, right.

That's beautiful. I mean, I think it feels like really empowering to me. Yeah. These are like, you know, they're relatively low barrier to entry, you know, and can have an outsized impact on your mood and your health and your energy and just kind of move in the world. I also think that what I love about whoop and really all of this data that we're getting about. out our bodies is that I think inherently, sometimes we know that eating these foods or drinking alcohol or not sleeping enough is not great for us. But sometimes we don't even put two and two together until we actually see the numbers. And even for people who are in tune,

like you and I, it really does help to have, you know, a record of like, what is your resting heart rate? What is your HRV? And how are things impacting it? For me, that was the needle, that was the last step for me to really give up alcohol. Because when I had whoop, I think I mentioned you before the interview, I had it years ago. Right, right. And I would wear it and I would be watching my HRV. And I'd be like, I barely even drank. Like I just had one.

And it would tank my HRV each time. And so then I thought to myself, well, I don't really need to have it on those nights where I'm just having one. or just like socially, I don't really need to do it. And then I started to notice improvements. But I was noticing intuitive improvements, but then the number was what was really driving me. And so that I think that was. It's kind of a stark, like, whoa. You know, it definitely like kind of stops you in your tracks because you're like,

hmm, this is actually having a really big impact. We just published a paper that basically showed heart rate variability, you know, women in particular are hit harder. Yes. Younger women, women across the lifespan are just more impacted, right? And I think it's- From alcohol? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. And it has a huge impact. I think, you know, one of the things that changes, again, perimenopause, menopause is like your alcohol dehydrogenase levels are lower in your gut and your liver. And so just have a harder time.

It's a harder to metabolize. Yeah. detoxing that. And so that's a great way. Somebody, one of the brain researchers was saying that if the brain had pain receptors, you would really not drink alcohol, right? Because your gut in your brain would say, no. Right.

And so we don't get that feedback. And so that's why it's nice to get that feedback from, you know, these kind of numbers. Because then you can say, oh, wow, it really is doing, you can see it. Otherwise, you're not going to really know what it's doing to you. Yeah. Except for feeling a little lethargic the next thing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we recently published another paper that looking at, you know, when folks first come on onto our platform, what's happening over the first 72 weeks, you know, like in terms of all these behaviors?

Yes. And one of the biggest kind of changes in behavior is alcohol consumption. So folks who are reporting alcohol, you know, just changed their behavior over the course of 72 weeks and that they're reducing their alcohol consumption quite significantly. Oh, yeah. That definitely happens for me, yeah, years ago. And that was like... So alcohol is tough for the biome. Alcohol is, again, like, it's something that is a small, you think is a small thing that

you're doing, but it's really over the years and consistency really impacts the biome in a negative way. And it's so crazy because, you know, I grew up and I went to school during the times where alcohol was considered a health food. You were talking about good inflammatory levels when you drink alcohol. And it was so weird to me. And it makes sense now because all of these other behaviors that the people in the Mediterranean, you know, or diets or even the centenarians, they were doing, they kind of counteracted

the alcohol piece. But it definitely was a big shift in the medical literature because we went from Or even just like the moderate to none. Yeah, it went from moderate to none. Or like, you know, once in a blue moon. And that I think is something that really can change your gut health in a positive way. And also I think, and this is, I know you are super interested in this too. Like really spending more time in nature is not, I think during COVID we kind of got some more data about like how nature can improve your immune system and how it can boost your gut.

health, but I think that piece of it is newer research even for most of us is like, you know, hey, you're probably going to benefit from spending more time in nature than you think. Yeah. That's going to help your gut, your hormones, your immune system. Yeah. It is, there is something very regulating, you know. Yeah. And we know there's lots of data on its impact on our nervous system, you know, just by

literally stepping into nature, your heart rate reduces, you know. So you're getting that, and it's restoring, you know, mentally, physically, emotionally, Yeah. But to me, I mean, that data on gut bacteria loving nature and sunlight is so strange. It's like they know in this dark place, it's presumably dark to them. I don't know. Maybe they, you know, they can see. But to have like that impact on something like that is really, really interesting. Well, you know, the light, what's happening is when you're outside, you know, the retinas, you know, of course, you know, are communicating with super kisemen. nucleos, which then communicates with all the cells. So they're getting this information. And when they feel that, they actually release factors. And that's why when we're viewing light at a phase of the natural light dark cycle, that's why it has such an impact, right? Because it's impacting all of the trillion cells, like in our gut biome. We're like, what the hell's

going on? I'm not supposed to be seeing light right now. Why am I getting light inputs when it's supposed to be dark. And so that confusion results, that cellular communication is really the basis of aging and disease, right? Yeah. And that kind of broken clocks. Yeah, exactly. They're mistimed.

Like the cues that they're, you know, getting, that are mistimed are, yeah, it's just confusing, you know. I think we're going to get more. I mean, people, I was talking to someone who's saying that dinner reservations now for like five and six o'clock are like skyrocketing in cities that they never saw people wanting to go dinner that early and I thought that was so great because it's like people let's transition into this because I know we both are really passionate about just the timing of stuff you know you know when I when I joined whoop a decade ago um you know I had been collecting these data I was been a decade I know it's crazy like just yeah another month it'll be 10 years wow

but you know I had been inside these kind of data for a very long time but you know I started really monitoring consistently with better technology you know 24 7 when I joined whoop 10 years go. And the biggest mover of my resting physiology and really, frankly, like just my mood and energy, you know, my capacity to train, all of that is definitely what I'm eating, you know, and Woot picks up on that. Like if I don't have a good day of eating, if I'm underfueling, overfueling, whatever I'm being, not putting the right kind of foods in my body. Whoop picks up on it. Oh, 100%. Yes. And it impacts my sleep. It impacts my, you know, I think your food during the day creates conditions that allow you to have a stable sleep wake time,

You know, which we know consistency is so important, right? Like that regularity. And so I guess from your perspective, you know, how do you, when you're educating, when you think about just from a medical perspective, you know, what do you think about the timing of food? And there's lots of conversations about fasting too. So I'd love for you to talk kind of about time restricted eating versus fasting. And what are the ways for us to think about that to really optimize.

Yeah, love that question. Because here's the thing. our genes have evolved to eat at certain times, sleep at certain times, you know, wake at certain times. And that has not changed. No matter what Uber eats and, you know, the internet tell you, like they, we have now, we know that our body will respond to those timing signals. And we don't do well when we eat late into the night. A huge meal at midnight has an intense response on insulin. resistance, digestion, lots more.

Next day, fasting glucose, fasting glucose, energy, sleep patterns. And so we know that, yet our society lives in a world now that is completely altered when it comes to food. And the same thing goes the other way around. I think there was a really big push to fast late into the day for a long time. and I think that really goes against the physiology that we're, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing it once in a while.

It's a stress, almost like a hormesis response to your body and for religious purposes or whatever it is. But to do that regularly and on a daily basis is definitely not something that I would recommend, especially if you're someone who has issues with inflammation and cortisol and you're almost getting the counter effect of what you want. Yeah. And so I really believe. in this circadian style of fasting, which is what we were kind of evolved to be doing is dark.

When it's dark, don't eat as much or not at all. And then when it's light, eat the bulk of your calories during the day, and especially early in the day. And so one of the things in my 30-33 framework, 30 grams of protein is early in the day. And the reason why is because there's plenty of research that shows that having it early in the day actually has outsized benefits. So better. You're active.

Yeah. And you have better, you know, cravings, energy, stability, blood sugar stability. And I don't think most people know that. I think they think that they're supposed to be not eating until dinner or eating very little. Or fasting. Yeah. All the way through.

So I think there's very clear data that you, you know, shouldn't. And, you know, the big negative study that came out that showed the increased risk of death with people who eat one meal a day, is because they think it's because of the circadian biology that if you're constantly, whether on purpose or by mistake, not eating all day until late in the evening, it's going to have a negative impact on not only your hormones and your immune system, but also these circadian clocks that are depending on you to eat and drink at certain times in the day. Yeah, there's a lot of the nutrition scientists out there, like Delaine and Michael Ormsby, you know, they're really kind of saying, timing doesn't matter.

Yes. You know, like it's just calories in calories out. Yes. And I'm like, are you guys circadian physiologists? Yeah. No, you're not. You know, like, and not that they're wrong. Like, it is calories and calories out.

I get that. But I think you are, I think there is data that shows we metabolize better earlier in the day. Yeah. Right. And that we are basically, it's. almost like asking someone who's drunk to do a math problem. You know, that's basically your body trying to eat and metabolize food at midnight. Great analogy. Yeah. That's the best analogy I've ever heard. Because it's like, yeah, you can do it, but you're not going to do it

well and you're going to feel the effects later. I think, too, you know, as from a psychological perspective as well, like you just, you've made 200 decisions by 6 p.m. Oh, 100%. You just lose your will power, you lose your perspective, like you get further from your goals. You know, you kind of wake up and you're like, all right, you know, I'm living my values today. And, you know, you've kind of like, you're motivated, right? And you just have energy, right? You're just, you just slept, right? And so you're ready to go. And, you know, as the day wears on, you just get less good at making decisions, you know, and your, your willpower kind of fades. And now you are introduced with, you haven't had enough macronutrients throughout the day. You know, you haven't distributed your macronutrons appropriately. So now you're

starving, you know, and you can't, and you wake up in the middle of the night because you're hungry because you haven't distributed your macronutrients. Like you can't possibly eat everything that you need in one meal before bed because you have just a, your stomach has a size, right? Like so you don't end up getting the calories that you need. So I just don't see any real benefits. And I just feel like that nuance is completely lost in so many of these conversations that are happening. Oh, 100%. Related to calories and calories out. Yeah. And yeah, of course, calories in at the very cursory thought process it is calories and calories out but there's so many things that impact psychological and physiological variables that are just not a part of that discussion

because when you are tired or you know you're not going to burn as meld you're not going to exercise and then you're also going to eat a lot more calories right like you know it just it impacts all of that thinking because there's so much that goes into calories and calories out right totally Yeah, so that I'm a big believer in timing the day properly. It doesn't always happen because, like, you and I, we travel a lot and I see the impacts it has on me. Yeah. And I don't expect anyone to, you know, live in this, like, super rigid cycle. I have to tell you, this is so funny.

When I started wearing the woup, I started to notice, like, anytime I socialized, even if I didn't drink alcohol, it's like my sleep and my HRV or something. like low, you know, on a Saturday night or like, because I'm not, I'm sleeping later. I'm maybe more active. My nervous system is activated. Right. And I had to kind of like say to myself like, it's okay. You know, those are, these are okay.

It's okay not to be like a good score. Of course. Because you had a good night out with your friends. And so I think taking, you know, this information and doing kind of making it your own and making it your life is really important. So some people will say to me like, there's no way. I could get outside for that long in the day or there's no way I can eat an early dinner, but like do what you can.

Exactly. With what your schedule does. And over time, you'll notice that you can kind of reach those goals. Yeah. I think that's such an important point because I do feel like people can get overwhelmed or intimidated by the data and like kind of get into this, you're like, I'm not doing anything right. Like I, you know, and I think it is zooming out and just being like, this is just a tool to help you understand how you're responding and adapting to stress.

generally like just not yeah and not being too attached yeah yeah and I think you make a great point that it's it's more about like you want to live your values right and just you know that's the audit that you need that's what you have to come to roost at the end of the day when you look yourself in the mirror did I live my values you know and just aligning your behaviors with things that you care about and the person you aspire to be that's the project right and if you do that generally speaking, the data is going to look good. It's going to look good. But the entry point is through the values.

Yes. I think. Yeah, I think so too. And also, like, I think I've learned a lot of trying to tune into ourselves, like our own kind of systems that give us feedback. So, for example, when you're eating, so the data shows that when you eat foods that are full of fiber, you know, fermented foods, various different sources of fiber, you will feel more energized and, you know, after a few days of doing that, and you will feel

less of the cravings and you will feel less of the bloating. And so, you know, learning these signals for yourself is actually really, really a great tool also to really have that internal check. Like, hey, remember how I... Like this is supporting me. Yeah. Or like, you know, when you go on this trip, I think people can really relate to this. When you go on a trip that's like three or four days long and you just ate and drank all the wrong things, the way you feel that next week is not good. Yeah. And that's what's happening.

That's like a mini snapshot of how your gut brain connection really has an impact. Yeah. And I do think, like, once you get, once you get your gut biome healthy, you don't crave those. Oh, yeah. That's actually right. That's true. Okay. And that's why I think it's great also to eat fermenting.

foods because I think it kind of helps you with cravings. Like there was this whole apple cider vinegar diet, you know, for a long time. And there's all these. There's something to that. It's true. Like you actually blunt the blood sugar a little bit. Right, right. Have less of that.

I don't know about you, but I definitely know that when I'm on a sugar roller coaster, as soon as the sugar drops, you want it again. And so if you're eating fermented foods, they kind of blunt that sugar spike and kind and get you off of that roller coaster, which I've been on it. I know how that feels. Yeah. Oh, totally. We all, every human has, I think, you know, and it's, yeah.

But there's a path out of that, you know, which is really excited. It's exciting. And it starts with just, I think, you know, I think your framework in terms of, like, just hitting as many of these kind of foods as you can, diversity, 30 different types of foods across the week, 30 grams of fiber, 30 grams of protein. And what's your thing? That's that. Three probiotic foods.

And three probiotic foods. Okay. Yeah. So, like. Fentant foods a day. Amazing. And, you know, what I've run across, though, is people who are on GLP-1 Agnes, they tend to really, they're great about avoiding ultra-processed foods now because they're not

as hungry for them or they'll have two fries. Yeah. They'll have like a couple of fries and they'll be done. But they're having a harder time getting that protein in the morning, getting that fiber and getting fermented foods because just don't have that appetite. And so in one way it's helping. In another way, it's making it even more challenging. So that's been a really interesting new thing that my patients have brought up.

You're invited to join the waitlist for WOOP Advanced Labs. Advanced Labs delivers clinician reviewed lab results right into your WOOP app for the most complete view of your biomarkers and biometrics and the most comprehensive understanding of your health. Unlike other tests, WOOP integrates your lab results with your WOOP data. See how your habits and behaviors influence your biomarkers and get clear guidance on what to change to improve your results. To join the wait list, visit our website or the health tab in the Woop app. Is it, so for folks who are on GLP 1, sorry, this is a slight tangent, but I'm curious as a medical doctor what your, what your thoughts are. It seems like GLP1 is also blunting, like,

other things like sex drive and like just like people are getting kind of this an hedonia, you know, just like meh feeling. Yeah. Can't excess joy quite as much. Yes. Less feelings of awe. This is all anecdotal. There's no real studies that are kind of looking at the psychology of the GLP1 really yet that I'm aware of. I'd like to do that study. Yeah, you should. But yeah, I'm curious your thoughts. Yeah, I think that we see this and I know I've seen some experts that study this, talk about it. And it looks like it's something that's dose related for many people. Interesting. And so that if you are someone who is listening to this and you're like, oh my God, that's me, please mention it to your doctor because you probably are on too much of a dose.

It's a side effect, really, that you're seeing that does follow the, you know, a lot of people don't feel like having alcohol, which is great. But then if you don't also feel like having fun, that's also, you know, so you want to. You're social. Yeah, you definitely want to mention that because that is something that I've seen and that many people have seen. But it seems to be, you know, dependent on the person and depend on the dose. Is there GPL, GLP1 antagonist data and gut biome? Do we know how it impacts the gut biome? We don't, we know that it seems to lower inflammation, actually. And so we do find that the inflammation, but if you can imagine it, that would make sense if you're not eating as much sugar or you're not

putting any, all of the stuff in your gut that has to process. Right. So I think that's what it's related to more than the actual direct impact of the medication. But there's definitely, especially in cases of people with diabetes and with obesity, there's a decrease in their inflammation levels coming from the gut. So that's definitely a positive thing. And that really is the basis behind what people think that in the future, everybody will be on a microdose of this because of the inflammation effects of it. That part, we don't have all the studies on it and it's very scary to think about. I know.

But it's actually interesting, like, okay, almost everyone in the U.S., especially in modern countries is probably overdoing it on some of these foods because we just live in a society that is like that. But it seems... The whole peptide world is very, very interesting. Oh, God. Not a lot of data right now, which makes it feel like the Wild West, but I think there is a lot of promise.

Well, I'll tell you this. I keep seeing patients that have various problems that come up. where we don't attribute it to the peptides because we don't know, but it just so happened that they're also on peptides. So it just makes me really think like, hey, you know, if you're, there are some that aren't as dangerous as others. So I talk a lot about, so I know this is tangent off our conversation, but certain peptides, like the growth hormone analog peptides,

they actually increase IGF1 and they increase cell proliferate. which can be a negative thing if you have cancer cells or autoimmune issues and who knows what else. So I have seen in my practice many people, I would say, yeah, like many people saying that something happened and it's not connected yet. And so that makes me a little wary of these, especially those ones. Yeah. That'll be a podcast for another time.

Yeah. And, you know, GLP1 agonist, I think we're going to know. in the coming years, what the impact is on this entire huge population that wasn't intended to be taking it, like the side effect profile. Yeah, exactly. Like if you're just a healthy human, just microdosing. Yeah, like what is it good or bad? There's so many people.

Yeah. Exactly. So many people that use it. And like I said, it could be good or bad. I mean, there are good. There's some very cool signals. I mean, in the breast cancer research, there's some crazy cool. signals with people who are on GLP once.

The reduction of information is just, yeah. And, I mean, inflammation is, I mean, if you can get a handle on that, I mean, you think about how many of the, the U.S. population, if we're just talking about U.S., like, are inflamed. Yeah. Have systemic inflammation, chronic systemic inflammation. That's why it's like, it's a double ed store because, of course, you don't want the entire population to be on a certain medication.

I know. But then if you look at what we're struggling with as a population, yeah, it makes you think like, okay, well, if it's doing those things and if it's helping potentially, I mean, like the signal and cancer is really that it might be slowing the GLP1 agonist. So there are some good signals coming out, but obviously we don't know enough yet. Yeah, yeah, of course. It'd be interesting how that evolves over time. Yeah. Is there any scenario where you would recommend fasting, you know, so we talked about time-bricially eating, which has a circadian component 100% of the time, trying to get the whole entire field to think that way. It just makes things

a lot easier. Interminute fasting, of course, has like more of a caloric, can be all sorts of different time periods, has no circadian component. So thinking about intermittent fasting, is there any kind of benefit from your standpoint, from a nutritional standpoint? The one that's not circadian style? Yeah, yeah. So like just like a maybe 48-hour fast. Okay, yeah. Okay, yeah. There is some data. Interminute fasting. Yeah, there's some data. So I think it's out of the Latter-day Saints community where they do like a Saturday, a Sunday fast. They do a 24-hour fast, I think either monthly or weekly at some regular rate. And they have seen really great cardiac outcomes. Just giving your body a chance to reset from everything. I think there's some benefits and

doing it intermittently and not, you know, not a daily thing. But, once in a while, like if once a month you want to do a 24 hour. And it's not so bad. I've done it before a 24 hour, like Saturday dinner to Sunday dinner, which is what they do. They found some cardiac benefits. Good benefits. Yeah. So there is a role definitely in kind of doing an like a, almost like a quick reset fast. I love that. That one or one to three days. And of course, there's some research with the modified kind of fasting mimicking diet from Dr. Longo's research. And so there's some good data on fasting for our immune system and gut. But really what we're talking about is two different things.

It's like doing a once in a blue, like once in a while fast versus a daily thing. Yeah, yeah. And you would say just at a minimum, 12 on, 12 off. Yeah. So I think for, and it is very dependent, again, on the woman. But if you're talking about women, they tend to do better in shorter fasting interval. So the 12 to 14 and 15 like range seems to be a good range because women seem, at least most of the women that I work with are pretty sensitive to fasting. Meaning that when they go longer periods for, you know, for extended periods of time, they see a lot of negative side effects from it.

Yeah, just energy. I mean, just all the things, right? Like, we need food. Yeah, exactly. Women kind of are wired. Yeah, it's a stressor. Your body's always scanning for safety. Yes.

If you have a metro cycle, you know, and so when you're not feeding it, it feels like, okay, it's not safe to have a baby. Even if you don't want to have a baby, that's what your body's scanning for. 100%. Yeah. Almost every woman that I talk to in the clinic, I'll say, you know, kind of front load your food and especially your protein. It's very foreign to a lot of women. A lot of women have been grazed or ingrained to think that you eat as little as possible all the time. It's like just get smaller and smaller.

Yeah. Like get less and less and delayed. And it's like the concept of shrinking and getting. smaller rather than getting stronger and like getting more motivated. You know what I mean? It's like you want to be stronger in all aspects of your life. You don't want to be smaller in all aspects of your life. Absolutely. I love that. Yeah. For women, you know, fasted training. You know, I think if you wake up and you just can't tolerate food before you train, you're fine. You have enough glycogen and your muscles to carry you through. You're going to be fine. Just afterwards at some point, you know.

Yes. Eat. But so it's not, is that kind of how you think about it too? That's actually exactly my philosophy is sometimes I'll wake up and I'll have time for a quick walk. Yep. You know, before my day gets started and I'll just go for it or like a yoga, you know, session.

Yeah. I don't need to fuel myself. Right. Before those things. If I'm going to be training for something intense or I want to get to my PR, you know, then I'm going to have food. Some food. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think it's really, I don't think there should be a hard. and fast rule. I think women in general, like I said, will do better with more food earlier in the day. That does not mean like when you roll out of bed and you need to eat. Yeah. Like I think that concept is hard for people to differentiate. But so what I, what I'm seeing is a little different from some of the other people. I think some people say like, you need to eat within like, you know, whatever minutes of waking up. I think it's more about fueling yourself early in the day so you're not waiting until dinner to actually have your first protein-rich meal,

fiber-rich meal, probiotic rich meal. You know, like that, I think that concept is still very important for women, and I don't think that a lot of women understand that. So I think that alone can really change things like bright light and, you know, food early in the day and, you know, move your body. Because your gut, what it's supposed to do. It's like what, I'm so happy. The difference it makes, it's insane. I always tell people it's like, I never thought that taking a walk outdoors could have such an impact on my health as it has. I used to think of it as like an old people activity. I honestly thought of it as like, oh, people who are retired or like tons of time?

Yeah. Who's walking? You know, like you'd be in a gym, like, you know, do something intense if you really wanted. But that has changed my life. I yeah I've always been like you know really outdoorsy but but yeah it's it's become clear and clear that is really the force of life you know is getting outside and and and I think people don't realize like when I'm in New York for example and I was in New York this winter it's not necessarily the best to do it through a window you could do it through an open window but

when the weather is not that great but really getting Getting that direct light not through. That photon energy. Yeah. Yeah. Is different than getting it, you know, through a window. Anything's better than nothing, of course. Yes.

But, yeah, get outside when you can and look at the sky, you know. Or even like, yeah, for brief moments. I mean, I know because I was thinking about it when I was in New York, I was like, okay, translating this to a winter. I think what I did was I got brief stints of it. And then I would open a window and get direct. You know, whenever I can, like whenever I could. And of course, the summers are much easier.

Totally. Totally. I love that. Dr. Shada, close things out here. One piece of advice you have for folks. If you can only do one thing, what would it be? Okay, I'll give you a non-nutrition one. Yeah, give you a nutrition one and kind of a non-nutrition.

The non-nutrition one is exactly what we just talked about is getting a sunny walk every day. So whether it's, I mean, it doesn't have to be sunny, but a nature. walk outside. Yeah. It can be quick. It can be 10 minutes. But really trying to aim to incorporate that, that will make such a huge difference in your life.

I've seen it over and over again. Yes. And then the nutritional strategy that I would say is the framework is the 30-33. So 30 grams of protein the first meal, 30 grams of fiber throughout the day, and three probiotic foods every day. And you don't need to be perfect 100%. Just move towards that. and you will see your life change.

I love that. I love that. This is amazing. Dr. Shaw, thank you for all of your wisdom and your inspiration and everything that you do for the world. Like, you're making such a huge impact. Your book is amazing. Hormone havoc.

People need to get it. They need to read it, educate themselves. It's, yeah, so thank you for all your contributions. I'm so grateful. This was so fun. I'm so glad we finally got to do this. I know. I know.

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