WHOOP Podcast - Healthy Habits To Perform At Your Best with Niall Horan

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

On this episode of the WHOOP Podcast, WHOOP Founder and CEO Will Ahmed sits down with Global Music Star, Niall Horan, for a candid conversation about fame, creativity, and staying grounded. From auditioning for the hit show X Factor to navigating One Direction’s rapid rise, Niall reflects on gratitude, pressure, and what it really feels like to perform in front large audiences around the world.Niall shares his experience with the reality of songwriting, building a life beyond music through golf and entrepreneurship, and how WHOOP helps his routine and recovery to stay sharp on tour. This episode reveals the mindset behind one of the world’s most recognizable music artists and how he is evolving through the industry.Show Notes:  (00:40) How Niall Found His Passion In Music(01:53) Niall’s Early Career and Experience On X-Factor(07:52) Handling The Nerves Of Live Performance(10:17) Forming One Direction & Rising To Fame(21:29) Transitioning Into A Solo Career(23:36) Inside the Creative Process: Song Writing & Creating An Album(29:22) Finding Inspiration And Forming Individual Sound(31:56) Bringing Others Into The Creative Process(34:17) Remaining Grounded As An Artist(36:56) Performing and Traveling Around The World(39:45) Niall’s Day In The Life on Tour(47:48) Analyzing Performance and Training with WHOOP(49:45) Niall’s Life Outside of Music(52:06) Niall on Golf & Starting Modest! Management(01:00:13) The Horan & Rose Charity(01:01:53) Golf, The Master’s, and Watching Friends CompeteFollow Niall Horan:InstagramYouTubeTikTokXSupport the showFollow WHOOP: Sign up for WHOOP Advanced Labs Trial WHOOP for Free www.whoop.com Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

You must be deeply intuitive, I mean, in order to do what you do and be successful at it. Is there anything you do to protect that intuition or protect that creative process? There has been times absolutely where I've like woken up and dreamt a lyric or a chorus. I've got like 15,000 voice notes on my phone. You know, it's a constant. I've written songs where I've literally sat the piano, played four chords, and just started spewing lyrics. There's other times where I have nothing and you start with a drum beat, plays a few chords in a guitar and just start mumbling, and then the mumbles turn into words.

You know, you're singing a melody, and then all of a sudden, words start appearing in sentences, and then all of a sudden you got full sentence and you got full verse, and then all of a sudden you've made your sound. All right, now, welcome to the Woot Podcast. It's good to be here, Will. Thanks for having me. Thanks for doing. What an amazing career you've had at such a young age.

Yeah, it's been something that actually the older I've gotten, the more I've reflected on it. You know, it's been like 15 years this year that I's been doing it, and I'm only 32. So it's pretty nuts when you look at it in that context. But it's been a wild ride, you know, finishing off my teens and becoming a man in the music industry is something that I never anticipated, but quite enjoy. Was it obvious to you when you were five years old or ten years old or pick some young age that you were like good at this? You know, you have that thing where you'd never feel. You're the absolute best. You know, I went to my first concert when I was like four or five.

I remember looking at the stage and be like, oh, that's what I want to do. or I would take part in like school productions and little plays and things like that and just loved it like loved it more than anything else that I did academically or extracurricular stuff. I always felt like I was, you know, I really wanted to do it and destined to do it. Whether I was good enough was a different story at that age, but we came to find out that maybe I was later down nine. Yeah, I mean, big time. And so that moment when you're 16 years old, right?

and you're packing your suitcase to go to the X Factor. What led up to that moment? Well, I watched the X Factor on TV every year. It was like the biggest show. It was getting like, you know, 20 million viewers, you know, for the finale every year. It was a big show, a big Saturday night family show. And I would watch it and just love the show, love the idea of it. And I never really had the, I never really wanted to put myself in that position.

And my French teacher actually filled in my X Factor entry form. and forced me into doing it. And I thank her every day. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, no, she really believed to me. She wanted me involved in all the school stuff, all the talent shows, all that kind of thing, trying to get me gigs around our hometown and things like that,

and just really believed in me. I guess everyone needs that. Every student needs a teacher like that. I was a B-level French student, so she didn't really have to support me that much, but she loved her music and she really backed me. best decision I ever made. She saw something in you.

Yeah, I think so. I think she could see how much I loved it. You know, maybe I didn't, I wasn't the most academically driven. I was okay. Like I was a B and a C student. I was never going to take over to the world of academics. Yeah, she just seen my drive to do it. And, you know, obviously it's going to be tough to get into a job like that.

It would have been a different story if I was, you know, had better results and did something else for a living. So she fills out this application. and do you have to submit some kind of a song for it or some kind of a recording? No, I don't think that now you do. Like on the voice now we, you send in before you even get near a producer, you send in, you know, sample videos,

like an audition, effectively on a video. And but back then it was just fill in a form and you line up, it was Crock Park Stadium in Dublin, and you line up like with, let's say, 10,000 people. Isn't that amazing? And you just, we were there at 5 a.m.

My cousin, I stayed with my cousin in Dublin the night before and we walked through the line probably got to the audition at like 11. So you're in line for six hours. Yeah, it's just like,

just grinding. Going through the motions of a metal barrier and it was musical so people were up, you know, once the sun came up, everyone was up playing guitar and things,

singing along, it was great. And then, funly enough, when I went into my, they have these like booths around the side of the pitch and you can, you sit in this,

stand and then you walk down onto the thing. And the guy who did my first edition ended up being my A&R guy for the next six years. Isn't that amazing? That's crazy. We were talking about it the other day. And it's crazy how those first people that I bumped into, I ended up doing good stuff with. Feels a little destined when you describe it that way. Now, when you're in that line, are you nervous?

Are you like, we'll see what happens? Like, what do I have to lose? I'm 16 years old and figuring it out. Well, at 16, you think that if I don't do it today, I'll never, ever do it. And I always say that to people on the voice too It's like, and I'm sure we'll get into more of this later But when you're 15, 16, you think the world will end here If I don't get this done

And you don't consider that you are 15 or 16 years old At the time, I was like very nervous Okay, so you're like, I need to ace this And I also don't really know how good I am at that point Yeah, right You know, like, I've got like people in my small hometown And school telling me that I'm a good singer But that's as far as it's gotten

You know, there was no real online thing that you could do back then. It was very much, I think my space might have been a thing, but like YouTube was just starting maybe. You know, there was no Twitter, there was none of that kind of stuff.

So I had no real basis, you know, which to find out if I was good or not. So that was my, that was where I was going to find out if I was good or not. Do you remember what you sang? Oh, I sang so sick by Neo.

I don't know what I was saying. And why? I don't know. I thought I could sing it well and I don't think I did. Oh, you didn't think you did your best then? No, I didn't know. Nerves.

And to be honest, it's ruined me in a way because I still find live television very tough. Like, as you have three minutes to do the best version of that song, pre-record is whatever. You know, you don't feel the red light on the top of the camera. You don't feel like you're live to the nation, whereas when the red lights are on, and you literally have three minutes to give it its best version that will stay online forever, and it still haunts me now. Yeah, it's not a great thing. I remember the first time I did a live, like, business interview.

It was on Fox business at like six or seven a.m. in Manhattan. And I walked out into that interview room and it was like four or five hosts there. And by the way, I didn't even know what a green room was. Like they said, you're going to be in the green room. I was waiting to go into a room that I thought was green. And then next thing, you know, they're taking me out. And I'm like, am I going actually on the set? And you end up on the set.

And then they started asking me questions. And I'm like, is this live right now? I couldn't even tell if we were on yet? Yeah. And I was so nervous. Is this live? And do I know the answers to these questions? My brain is just gone blank.

What is whoop? I just, I don't know what whoop is. You tell me. Yeah, it is a scary thing. So live TV is a different thing. And,

and it's fast. Like, it's such a short period of time, really. Yeah, like, you know, if you do a five minute interview, 10 minute interview,

it feels like a minute. Doesn't feel like much at all. And then you leave it. I always find myself, like, maybe not so much interviews anymore because I've done billions of them, but leave live live television sets

and start breaking it down in my head, having not even seen it. Just like, did I do that? Did I walk this way? Did I sing that note? Like you start doing a whole debrief on the I mean in some ways though it's refreshing to hear you say these things because I think you come across as someone who doesn't look like you're all that nervous ever probably. Sometimes I do watch myself back and go just you actually don't look as nervous as you felt like in my head my lips are quivering my like I had the same experience rewatching my my first Fox interview because I was like I don't

actually look nearly as nervous as I felt but I was so. nervous. Yeah, it's crazy what, you know, what, what, uh, it looks like looking in. Yeah. Um, I bet those people out there are saying they look really relaxed. Those people outside that window are probably not. Those guys look very relaxed. Yeah. We're locked in. Yeah. I mean, it is, it's a wild thing for me to envision, like, I'm putting myself from where I was when I was 17 years old. I was a kid in a boarding school. And here you are, like, about to become really, really quite famous, you know, like, it's kind of a trip for a 17 year old to get as famous as you got. Oh, yeah, 100% like I come from a town of about 30,000 people and I didn't know anything outside of that like Dublin was an hour away but it felt like it was six hours away like going to Dublin was a big that was a big destination yeah yeah those little towns and there's towns like this in every corner of the globe you know you don't you don't see outside of it's very blue collar very you just live in there you very rarely like go on vacation you just know that town you know your school you know your house you know your stores that you go to your parks you're you're very rarely like going vacation you you just know that town you know your school you know your house you know your stores that you go to your parks you're

football teams and that's pretty much it and then all of a sudden here I am in the big smoke of London you know with my you know future in front of me it's pretty pretty nuts so the next couple rounds go reasonably well you guys end up finishing I think third third yeah we had this thing the whole way through our career and I still have it now where we're just happy to be anywhere just yeah just grateful for the opportunity yeah just I still say it on stage now it's just like I look out with these like arenas full of people and I'm like literally this would be an empty room if you didn't buy tickets

you know like there's a you have to have that and if you lose that you're done you have to be great does it seem like a lot of artists lose that a little bit yeah you do see it I see it quite a bit and I don't know what this new generation is going to be like either you know I think that could be even worse but um you know there's some

I just maybe came from that generation where it's still still around you know that feeling was still around but yeah I don't know I think all of us were kind of were all from blue-collar families. There was no pretentiousness across the board. As I said, just happy to be anywhere and happy to be in the position that we were in and trying to make the most of it.

What was the moment where you were like, wait a second, everyone knows who I am? Well, it was obviously a huge show in the UK, so there was a period where we got to the live section of there was 10 live weeks of the X Factor. And every week the crowds were just getting, these crowds of girls were just getting bigger outside of the TV studio.

We could feel something, happening but still like the show's going to end yeah this could all just it's all up in the air we were kind of weren't taking it for granted and then I guess after after the show when we when it really took off and we bring out the first single and it you know it goes to number one and we start I remember going on like a promotional trip around Milan Amsterdam and Madrid or somewhere like that and those are the first times you'd even been to those cities yeah literally and we just felt this commotion places like Milan were just nuts and just like girls chasing cars and you know banging on the windows and you know um all the fan-dimonium stuff that you see and then

coming to america was for the first time and seeing our album go to number one was like going through times square with you know the big american dream and seeing your your face on a massive massive billboard in time square is it's pretty incredible that's a true and that was that was the one where we were like okay maybe we're onto something here and the fame didn't bother you, it seems. I mean, I think maybe most people, if, if one day they went from you can walk into a coffee shop and no one looks at you, to the next day you've got girls chasing you down the street and your faces on every billboard. Like that, it would feel like the simulation has just changed on you. Oh, yeah. No, it felt like that. It was definitely like wild. You're definitely

going, what is like the whole time we're looking at each other's going, what is going on here? This is like Beatles stuff. Yeah. I'm not saying they're in the same bracket, but it was like, you know, that I've only ever seen clips of the Beatles being chased down the street or You know, Justin Bieber at the time. He was like a couple of years before us. And it was like, that looks familiar. I've seen that before. But I kind of don't want to believe it.

It's a good sign. Yeah, it was a good sign, though. Yeah, I guess it was a period like, you know, from maybe when I was about 18 to about 20, 21, where it was so big that, like maybe it was all in my head, but I definitely, I've spoken about this before where I just, I felt like I couldn't leave the house. You become kind of a little bit of a recluse in a sense. Yeah, a little bit, yeah. And knowing what I know now, I don't really know why I want.

was. Like, there was definitely a period where I didn't, like, wouldn't leave the house and I get everything ordered in and I'd, you know, there is, there is a danger to that kind of fame. Like, you know, presumably you had stalkers and, you know, you could walk into a situation where you have so many people who eagerly want to see you. Yeah. It kind of collapses on you. Yeah. And there's a logic to it, but. Yeah, there is, I guess. But like, it's, you know, as I said, knowing what I know now, it definitely would have been a bit more outgoing. Yeah, 100%. But there was, like, the feeling of, like, walking. into a bar or walking into a restaurant and you don't even have to look up and you know that

I don't want this to sound arrogant but you know the whole room is looking at you. Yeah. It's a weird feeling. It's strange. It's a, you know, those people can do nothing about that and I can do nothing about it either. It's just a weird scenario. It just is. It is what it is. It's a thing. You know, it still happens now, of course, but I've learned how to deal it a lot more. I guess I'm 15 years in, as I said. So you learn. Yeah, you're a pro. You seem very, you seem very, you know, well-adjusted. Yeah. Definitely a lot more outgoing now than it was, yeah.

What did it feel like playing in front of 50,000 people? Yeah, see, the thing is our rise was just so big. You know, we went from, you know, just a TV set to, of a few hundred people to arenas like that. And then all of a sudden then it was an arena tour for 18 months and then it was two or three years of stadiums. Wow. And it was mind-boggling.

still love the stadiums were my favorite. It felt, obviously, it felt huge and, you know, you just stand there and you just can't believe that that amount of people have put their hands in their pockets to show up. Yeah, and, like, you still hear it now, you know, like I'll have people, parents on golf courses coming up to me, and it's like, my daughter's been a fan since she was seven, and she's 15 now, and, you know, I brought her to eight of your shows in Philadelphia.

Or, you know, you hear all of these great stories that is just, It's mad that like you were doing more. It was more than a concert. It was like a thing that families did together. You know, it was a bigger, it was bigger than just the tunes and the five guys on the stage. And there's a rush of it, right? I mean. The adrenaline of you could be in the worst mood in the world.

And at 8 o'clock or 8.30 at night when, you know, just say the screen comes up in front of you and you look out at Wembley Stadium or. And that sound, I bet. The sound you hear. Yeah, the roar. That's got to be awesome. It's like an anticipatory, like, kind of, they've been waiting for so long for that concert, and it's just this pent up energy.

And it's all directed at you. It's not like they're screaming at each other. You know, it feels, you feel this, like, wave of sound coming right at you. And do you feel, like, physiologically, like, jacked up from that, or are you calm but your head's buzzing? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, can be your heads buzzing But you also have to like

Remember you've got 90 You know a two hour show to do here So you feel like You know the way footballers always talk about Getting their first touch out of the way Yeah, exactly You know the minute the ball comes to them Make sure it's a good touch

And like you're always trying to nail your first part So you can settle your brain And that's the same every night Like we probably played like I think we played to like 7 million people or something Like 8 million people in the five years Wow

The buzz still happens every time But you learn how to to settle that buzz down within the first song I would always try and like, all right, get your stuff together here, we've got a job to do. Did you have any process

early on in your career, or even today, about, like, settling nerves? No, actually. Well, I take myself away and have a few breaths. But not really, no. I was very lucky in the sense that I could look to my left and right and I had people with me.

And I think that's the difference about being in the band versus doing it on your own. You can look left and right and know that everyone's in the same boat. I've got your back if you mess up or if you look nervous. I'll stick an arm around you settle you a little bit. Very lucky in that sense. It's very different doing it solo than it is in the band.

So how does it feel solo? Well, the first time I did it, I performed on Graham Norton. And, you know, like when we were in the band, we'd be at Graham Norton or something like that. And I'd walk out into the corridor. Like I'd say, you know, let's get ready to go. And I'd stand in the corridor waiting for the boys. and I actually did that

on the first time I performed in my own and I stood in the corridor because one of them's in the toilet or one of them is doing this or one of them's doing that and just wait here for a sec and then remember I'm actually the only one going out to do it

so that was very strange and very like like I can just get up and go out yeah I can just do it and then you're stood there and you're glanced into your left and you're right and there's no one there and you're weirdly enough

the first time in years that I'd probably sung this is a weird thing sung a song for four minutes on my own right And, like, really hear your voice, probably. You know, you're saying, like, he'd take the verse, and I'd take the other verse or whatever.

And it was the first, like, all these little new things for me that were making me nervous, you know, have it in my head. Did you feel a certain pressure when you came out of one direction and now you're going to be a solo artist? And it's like, you know, how much of my success was being part of this group versus how much is my, you know, who I am? Yeah. No, no, no, that's definitely, that was definitely a thought. And there's no doubt. I think the thing is I have to be happy for what I had. And that was a big takeaway from it.

Gratitude seems like a big theme in your life. Yeah, there's no doubt. Yeah. Like, it's crazy what, like, we did for each other, what the fans did for us, what the music did for all of us. Like, it's a collective. And you have to have a little, you have to have all of that. But I guess the one thing I thought about myself was, I can write a song. And I back myself to do that.

and I was thinking, right, if I'm going to give it a crack, just try my best to write a great song and see what happens. And I got very lucky in that sense. They don't come around very often, but I got a good one early. Writing a song has got to be one of the coolest expressions of, like, the human experience. Like, I'm very jealous in a way that artists get to do this. I mean, it's such a beautiful thing. For you, what's the process of writing a song? I guess, like most artists would say, it differs.

A lot recently has been like a concept first. Like I'll try and come to everything that I do with like a solid idea of a concept of a song from start to finish. Like how I tell this story from the first note to the last note. And that story is based in a melody that you've heard or played or that story is based in something that's happened in your life? Yeah, yeah. It's probably the latter. It's a story first. And it's written down like that.

Yeah. You know, I did this, I did that, I did this, I did that. The mood of the story tells you how the song will sound in my head. You know, when you hear, like, people talk about, like, synesthesia and they see colors and things like that, I'd be like, I can feel a mood just by looking at the lyric. You know, I don't know if that's an actual thing, I'm not sure, but, you know, if it's a sad song, it's probably going to be sat on a piano or some sort of finger-picked guitar. But if it sounds, if it reads a bit happier, it's more than likely uptempo and will be sung with a happier sounding melody. So you just, you know, you find the lyric somewhere, find a line.

If you have a chorus, like a hook tag for your chorus, you try and get that chorus first is what I've been trying to do a lot more recently. Write the chorus first and build the rest of the melodies around that. You must be deeply intuitive, I mean, in order to do what you do and be successful at it. Is there anything you do to protect that intuition or protect that creative problem? process? In terms of? Well, like, for example, I've heard of, you know, some artists or writers, like, if they have an idea, all of a sudden they have to get up from the table, wherever they are and just go write it down

or go work on it. Or I've heard people say, like, there's certain days they won't look at their phone or technology because they just need to be, like, more present. You know, I'm just giving you sort of... I, like, when I'm making an album, I'm nowhere near my phone. Yeah. I'm quite a hard guy to get a hold of. But I try and stay off the internet. I try and live within that world if I can as much as possible because you don't want anything to distort what you're thinking. There has been times absolutely where I've like walking up and dreamt a lyric or a chorus.

Oh, cool. And then I've got like 15,000 voice notes on my phone. So it's like, you know, it's a constant. So that's a method right there, voice notes. Yeah. Voice notes. Singing in melodies. you know,

like a dictaphone type scenario where like talking in a scenario talking in a story maybe telling myself what this song might sound like in the end. Yeah, it's a, it ranges. There's different ways of doing everything

and I've written songs where I've literally sat the piano, played four chords and just started spewing lyrics and then there's other times where I have nothing and you start start with a drum beat try and place a few chords in a guitar and just start mumbling and then the mumbles turn into words you know you're singing a melody and then all of a sudden words start appearing in sentences

and then all of a sudden you got full sentence and you got full verse and what would like what would the mumbles sort of sound like maybe let me give you an example to see um later did that yeah and then i'll fill it in and a word will appear and then i always say like i actually had this conversation yesterday, I was working in Nashville with my producer and I was like if the general music

fan was to walk into this room right now, they actually wouldn't believe like what goes on. Like the stuff that we do, like I was writing a song the other day and I took a break to watch you bank Ben. And it's probably going to be like

my first single off my album. Like the things we do in the room that shouting and screaming at each other, no, that's wrong. Don't like that idea. The way we describe sounds with our mouth. Like it's like it looks like It's messy.

Yeah, it's messy. And I don't think, like, when you hear a song and it sounds so clean and put together, the process of getting there, can be said about most processes, but the process of getting to that point is very interesting in the music world, I find. There's a principle in tech, which I was thinking of as you was describing that, which is that action inspires information, you know, this idea that, like, okay, maybe you're not sure what a customer wants or maybe you're not sure what a product should look like, but you just start doing stuff. Yeah. You know, you start building, you start designing it, you start putting it in front of customers. And then in turn, it starts shaping and shaping and shaping. And what you just described is how do you go from literally nothing to something as a song? And you're just doing it.

You're trying to come up with sounds. You're trying to come up with words. You're looking for inspiration. But you're clearly at it. And I think that's such an important theme for, like I meet entrepreneurs. In some ways, entrepreneurs and artists, there's overlaps. But I meet entrepreneurs who feel a little. stuck. Like their advice is, well, should I do this or should I do this or should I do this? And I don't

know if I should go down this path. And often I find myself saying, well, just start. Like, do it. Do it. Like, do more almost. Yeah, no, it is funny. And I, and I've spoken to you about, like, how you started whoop and, you know, I've spoken to other, you know, tech guys that I know. And it's, I have this conversation with basically every one of them. It's, like, it's a creative process. And it has to start somewhere. And I'm sure you were similar where you had this idea. you wrote down a piece of paper and all of a sudden we're in an office in Boston, you know, to 10 years there or eight years out, whatever it is. And it's just, it has to start somewhere to get somewhere. But you just have to be active. I find the more active I am, the better I get.

It's like my golf game. You know, the more of my golf, the better I get. What's the, like, what's the balance between being inspired by another artist and finding your own voice? You know, particularly I'm thinking about an artist who's coming up. who maybe, you know, loves Nal Horn and sings like Nal Horn and so forth. But then they also need to find themselves, right, and find a distinct sound. Yeah, no, it's true. I think we're all, you're kind of subconsciously inspired by everything that moves. Yeah.

You'll hear a song today on the radio. That might not even be in your genre that you hear a drum sound in it, or you hear a guitar riff or a guitar style or a melody thing that sounds kind of fresh. new and then you balance it up against what you do. And then like all my all, basically all I listen to is like 70s rock and roll. So I, but I've never made a 70s rock and roll album. You just find yourself, you know, picking little bits, things that you think made that song good, apart from the obvious, like the main hook or the main tag or something like that.

You just kind of pull parts of it subconsciously without realizing and then all of a sudden you've made your sound. Like I found Damien Rice and like, I found Damien Rice and like, I, Irish acoustic singer songwriters were like big one for me when I was when I was a kid. Like if that's what I'm listening to, of course when I pick up the guitar, I'm going to try and emulate that. So you again, subconsciously pick up a guitar and try and play in a similar way. You have to go down a rabbit hole to find, like I've started albums that sounded completely different to how they finished. Yeah.

Like I might write 50 songs. Totally. You know, you'll write a couple of songs. You're like, no, that's not it. And you write another couple. You're like, that's not it. And then you get write one. And you're like, oh, that's.

the sound. That's how we, that's what we build the umbrella around. And you just kind of have to, you have to go down to a rabbit hole. I'm sure you've done it yourself where that definitely doesn't work or that's not going to kick off or people won't like that. It's a similar thing. You just, you just have to go and find what feels like you. What comes out with your mouth and sounds natural. Doesn't sound forced. And people don't listen to that song and go, that's definitely not Nile Horn. He wouldn't do that. Like you have to, it's a, it's a, it's knowing yourself. That's a great way to put it. I've listened to Rick Rubin talk about that. And he's like the ultimate, I feel like, ambassador of like intuition and know yourself. And what you put it, the most

important thing about what you put into the world is that you believe into, you know, you believe in it. Yeah, you have to. I wonder for you how in that early phase of when you're creating songs and you're figuring out how much you like a song and you're still figuring out okay is this in the album or not in the album how much will you bring other people in to inform that decision versus how much do you just have to sit with it yourself because i'm involved in the whole thing if i didn't bring other people in to listen i've ruined the whole thing because obviously i like most things that i do okay um but again at the end of the day i'm trying to sell a product too you know like sure there are the i want the i want the masses

Yeah. You know, people always say like, like my producer was like, that, that's a good song. And I was like, well, let's hope seven billion people agree on Spotify. It is like that, though. Because you don't know. You don't know until you know. You know, I've had both ends of it where, you know, I love the song.

And then the rest of the world agreed. And then, you know, outside of my fan base. And I've had songs that have tanked and it doesn't feel great. So you just have to go with what your gut. And I always bring in like my girlfriend is a big, Big music fan. She listens to absolutely everything. Her Spotify is nuts.

She listens to anything from blues and jazz to rap and R&B to pop music. So I always try and bring her in. And obviously, she's, she lives with me. Yeah, right. So she's my first port of call. And then obviously I've got like my immediate team, my producers. And all these people can be like, no, that's not it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You need people like that. I don't have, yeah, I don't have the S people. I feel like, though, there are artists who get to a place where it's like they're just surrounded by people who are like, you are so special. Yeah. I'm sure you see that. All the time.

There's so much of it. Yeah. Like, it feels so fake and being backstage at like some of these awards or. And everyone's got their own little personal setup. It's like a sequence of reality distortions, right? Literally. I'm just sat in like a room with a white wall and a black couch and like a bowl of nuts in front of me. And like next door is a fully dressed.

IKEA Showroom, which is... With like crazy specifications. Yeah, literally nuts. And it's like, it blows my mind because that's so far removed from what? Well, you seem... I mean, you seem remarkably self-aware for the career you've had. It seems like you very much so are present to appreciate just the vibe of the whole thing. Yeah, yeah.

And I suppose it's time, too. there's an Irishness and an ignorance blissness to it as well he just kind of like just plod along and watch it all go past you and take nothing from it

or take everything from it and luckily enough I have the brain that takes in the good stuff and not some of the madness that goes on around it but to be honest like the more it's going on I don't have a lot of like friends

in the industry like a lot of my friends don't work anywhere near like commercial property like investment banking, like rugby players. I've got a good mix of mates. It's not like when I go to meet them in the pub.

We're just talking about me, me, me and me. And are a number of them friends that you had before 16 years old? I'd say three quarters of them. See, I think there's something to that where as you experience success, the friends you have before you were successful are very reassuring. Yeah. Right? Because you also knew, hey, they love me.

before I was anyone, right? Exactly. And they obviously have like a sense of pride. Yeah. But I'm proud of them, what they're doing in their careers. Works both ways. Yeah.

You know, we all come from this small little town and all of a sudden, you know, we're all doing these very different jobs, but, you know, they've been successful too, and there has to be a level of...

But I imagine that also helps keep you grounded, too, where it kind of pulls you back to small town, Ireland, you know, like, this is where I came from. Like, I love living in London and I've traveled the world.

You know, I think I've been in about four time zones this week. Like, it's, I do it all the time, but the, the gravitational pull of Ireland always, always has me. And you're probably like subconsciously, like, holding onto those friends, you know, like, you're obviously very good friends, but you're holding on to them, you know, to make sure we still have that. That vibe. That vibe. Yeah. What's up, folks, if you are enjoying this podcast or if you care about health, performance, fitness. you may really enjoy getting a whoop.

That's right. You can check out whoop at whoop.com. It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain, and you can now sign up for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just at whoop.com.

Back to the guests. Let's talk about travel a little bit and just the grind of what you do. When you're going, you know, and you're performing and a tour, how do you find that you're able to keep up with it? I feel like what gets often lost in the story of an artist is like, at the end of the day, you are performing. Like, it's a real workout. You have to sound good.

Your vocals need to be great. You know, like, it's a real show you're putting on. When I was younger, it was easy. Because your body recovers fast. Yeah, like, if you're hungover, you can kind of get away with it. Yeah, I could have went out four nights. four or five nights a week and gotten away with it, but that changed very fast. Wow. Yeah.

But, and that was fun and it was fun and, you know, you're just excited by the whole thing. And then the older you get, I remember like around COVID, I remember like, starting to feel like, okay, this is what they were talking about with a handover. Okay. You know, when you say you hit 25 or 26 and it starts the goal. Yeah, I get that now. I'm on a two or three day hangover kind of deal these days. but this past tour for instance I really felt like

in order for me to support an arena show for 90 minutes with 20 odd songs in it I need to be as fit as a fiddle and I need to really take care of myself I didn't drink the whole year Wow Actually I drank once It was in Boston funnily enough

I just played two nights at Madison Square Garden and a night at the Xfinity Center and I was like, I'm definitely having a drink. I've got two days off. And you were hungover for the next two days. I was in bed. I think I drank once the whole year, and it made such a difference to, like, my clarity,

the way I felt about everything, and the way, the effect it has on my sleep and things like that. I know we're going into like whoop chat here, but I really seen, it paid me dividends. I've never felt better. When I looked at pictures of myself, I thought, oh, he's in good shape. Looks healthy.

I look decent. I look healthy. There's a good looking guy. This time, around this time of year, it's not great. I think my whoop, when I opened up the app today, laughed at me. I had a busy week of travel. So, especially that last tour, I took it really seriously. And I wanted to, like, have, you know, optimal rest wherever I could get it.

You know, sleeping on the back of a bus, traveling across America is not conducive to perfect sleep. But I would, you know, take naps where I could. and like work out and like try and gozzle water, you know, and try and do as much as I possibly could. Without turning into a robot, try and do like the basics and do them well. So a show would typically start at what time? 8.30. So 8.30 and finish what, 10.30?

10.15 maybe. What would you do kind of that day leading up to the show? Get up. Straight away, go to the gym. So I bring like a mini gym set up. Right out of the road. Yeah, straight at it. Just it kind of, it gets rid of that groginess, you know, like a-

Get your body moving. That period of an hour where you feel sorry for yourself when you wake up. It's just like, I need something to kickstart me for the day and I'll do. I'm kind of one of those, like, I don't go crazy on the workouts. Like I've actually had to tell my trainer to the kind of pull it back a little bit because I couldn't like go all out. But by 830, I'm like. Tired.

Yeah. You know. And there's obviously different stuff you do during. the day. So more bands, core work, maybe your heart rate's lower. Yeah, I kind of, like, I won't, you know, I'll get into Zone 2, zone two couple of times, but nothing more restorative, just kind of just. Get your body moving.

If I know I'm going to train for a year. I don't need to be battering myself every day. It's not like I'm going to try and play 90 minutes of football or, you know, play PJ tour events, but just get into good enough shape, big on food as well, like trying, I've tried to eat as clean as I possibly can where I can. And that's made, it makes such a difference when you just concentrate on these things. What's your diet look like?

Diet generally is pretty good. Like fish and chicken and veg and rice and things like. It's like good. Yeah. And obviously when you're traveling, it's harder. Will you eat three meals on the day of a performance before you perform? You know what?

I'm more of a protein shake person in the morning. Okay. You know, straight after I'll get up, workout in an empty stomach and and have a shake after that and then lunch not long after that okay and i'll try and eat you know not i'll try to have a huge lunch so at dinner time i'll eat about an hour and a half two hours before the show so it's not just like sat there or if you eat anything i also try and stay away from like spicy food because i struggle a bit with like acid reflux and things like that so if i'm on stage and it's yeah that's right i mean you have to be dialed you have to really like it has to be play like my dinner

has to be very plain and basic and, you know, try and keep it as clean as I can, but no sauces or anything like that because I can't have that repeating on me. And you might do like a nap in the afternoon? Yeah. If I'm like, if the workout was bigger, if I like, sometimes I'll work out outside and I'll play a lot of these amphitheaters where there's like a lot of outdoor space. And if I work out outdoors, you're tired, you're just exhausted from the heat and stuff. So I do try and get like a, you know, even if it's like half an hour in the middle of the

afternoon. I try my best to get that in, yeah. Are you a caffeine guy? I went through a period where I was, yeah, absolutely. I've kind of slowed it down a bit, but I do more. I'm like, if I was, I was drinking early. Like I'd have, you know, maybe an espresso when I first get up, try and keep black with the fast, trying to do a little bit of intermittent fasting if I can. You know, I won't eat after the show. Sometimes I will if I'm really hungry, but that helps with your sleep to not eat after the show. Yeah, yeah, I expect, yeah, and probably what you need to be eating at that time my night is carbs and the carbs are not crazy bad but you know they're just better things to be eating when you're trying to sleep um you'd probably tell me more than that but i'm guessing that's the

deal and then i'll try and yeah i'll work out at like 9 30 and then yeah take it from there and do you ever like the morning of a show forget that you have a show almost like because you're just in such a routine of doing shows and it you know then kind of come 3 p.m you're like okay i got to i got to perform tonight it is it is funny how your brain clicks into gear after a certain time. Like I'll do, once sound check happens, sound check's usually at about 3.30, 4 o'clock maybe.

And then after I finish my sound check, then it's start thinking about opening up the doors and the fans. And, you know, if you're in a room where you can see the street and you see people arrive and you're like, okay, all right, let's go. They're here for me, are they? Yeah. So you do get, your mornings feel like mornings,

like anyone else. You know, get up, do your workout, do some emails, do things like that. and then there comes a point in the middle of the afternoon where it's like, okay, let's switch the engines on. I need to do something this afternoon. And you won't need caffeine or anything before a show. If I'm tired, I'll have a little espresso just to kick it off.

But I try not to because I'm already going to be buzzing off the adrenaline of the show after it. I don't need the caffeine in on top of that. So I'm trying to come down from the show as quick as I can. So the first thing I do when I get offstage is get a hot shower. Like say hello to nobody. Close the dressing room door. And you probably have a bunch of like VIPs or friends. They'll be friends, yeah.

Not every night. In the big cities, there's like, obviously, like New York, London, L.A., blah, that there's all that kind of thing. And even that's actually on this tour, I tried to actually limit that as much as I possibly can, especially on the big ones where there's, there's a record label there, friends are there, blah, blah, blah. If I just, if I say no to everyone, then no one can complain. It's like, I've seen him. So I, after the show, straight in, into a hot shower, steam myself, obviously. and just get into my chilled gear and just try and because you're up there.

The last song is potentially the faster or the most up-tempo, the most higher energy song in the night. Crowds had a few drinks at that point. Everyone's fired up. I'm fired up. The band are fired up. The energies, you know.

It's hard to come down from that. Yeah. Yeah, it's a feeling that has never changed. It's a strange one. But yeah, I tried. to do my best to, you know, I'll have a cup of tea and, like, you know, do evening stuff. Have you ever worn blue light glasses? I haven't.

I'll give you a pair today. I think they could actually be very helpful for you. Really? They've got a red tint and essentially they block all the blue light around you. Right. And they naturally make you very sleepy. And it's like the simplest thing I've found to improving restorative sleep. Really?

And also coming down from being stimulated. So whenever I travel, like long, flights, I'll have these glasses, and I wear them every single night. Like, after I eat dinner, I put these glasses on just every night, and they just naturally make you sleeping. And I've gotten a lot of pro athletes into them, because they have a similar challenge that you describe. You're under screaming fans, it's jada, da, yeah, and then all of a sudden you come off the court or come off the stage, and you need to come down. And do you find your, I'm sure, like, your brain has to work a lot more than me. Like, I have periods where my brain is completely

on, like, when I'm writing, like, I actually get, when I, like, my girlfriend's like, are you okay? I had took her a long time when we were together, like, to figure out that, and I had to explain it to her was like, when I've come back from the studio, I'm actually like exhausted. Yeah. Because your brain is just constantly on for, you know, 10 hours or whatever. And like I sometimes don't even want to speak. I have an acronym to my wife for this, which is OOTD. And it's one of those days. And it's just like a code for, like, she's asked me a question and I'm like staring through her.

and it's not her. It's just the life I live. You know, there's just things. It's very hard some days to switch off work. And I imagine for you creatively, your mind's either shut down or it's still processing. And you need to just, like, be a little bit of a zombie. Yeah, no, and those glasses sound like a good idea for me,

because I would struggle to, I struggle to switch off. Once I'm switched off, I'm gone, like, I'm good to sleep. Like I could fall asleep at the drop of a hat. It's just like the come down from something. I've always kind of struggled to just kind of just... What have you seen in your whoop data from a performance or just the evolution of a day?

Well, first of all, I find I can't... If I have a high recovery, I can't hit that strain. It's hard to get to the full strain. I can't get to the full strain. Yeah. Because my job doesn't allow me to. Like, I can't... You can't do like a max out workout and then still be...

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend that. Yeah, no, I can. can't and I like you always need to tell whoop I find it like what if I like about whoop is it keeps me accountable that's what what the main thing I liked about like during COVID I was I was telling you at the writer cup during COVID we were like I'm sure this was the case for every single person that was in whoop at the time was we were getting competitive with it yeah it was a thing it was a thing I had friends like I looked at his thing and he was like he played basketball for an hour he's like this guy's never played basketball in his life just like trying to try to outdo each of

other. And I find it, I find it good to be, to, to keep yourself competitive with yourself and trying to, trying to get to that strain. And like, instead of being lazy, I'll take the, you know, take the dog out for a second walk, you know, just so I can see if I can get that. Like, it, it just gives me that and it. And then also for my sleep, sleep's the most important for me. If I, I imagine, I need minimum seven hours to function. Last night, I got seven. I got eight and a half. Oh, wow. I'd been playing golf for a few days, and I'm up at 95% recovery this morning,

which I haven't seen in ages. Bad ass. I think I've got like, I think I had like 80% sleep efficiency last night, so it was like, it was a good, now I feel like I could, but here we go again. I've got 95% recovery.

I could probably hit like a 15 strain today, and I don't have the time to go to the gym. Right. You know, we're going, we're here all day, and then, you know, we're going to a concert tonight, and, you know, I won't have the time to get that straight enough. Yeah, sure. It's, yeah, you have to protect your time too. So when you're not in the, in the studio or on stage, what do you find yourself doing?

A lot of dog walking these days, just got a dog. Trying to spend as much time as I can at home, I spend so much time traveling. And I just want to be with my girlfriend and just completely chill out. I've got into gardening recently. Start doing all that kind of stuff. But a lot of time playing golf too, if I can. I don't play as much golf as I'd like to, but try and get a bit of golfing.

But mainly, because I do spend so much time in the States and, like, away mate, like this year I was every, it worked out at about average of about every 10, 12 days. I was back and forth to L.A. I was making an album and shooting a TV show at the same time. So I want to be. That's tough, right?

And my girlfriend, her work is based in London. So I want to be back there as much as I can with her instead of just being like, like when I'll arrive back, just leaving straight away. So I try and not do much. Go to the gym, eat well, do stuff around the house, and play a bit of golf. How's your golf?

Right now I'm kind of hit and miss between rounds. Like, sometimes I look like I'm on the tour, and then other times I look like I've never played the game before. I play off nine if I could put. That feels dangerous, nine. Yeah. I wouldn't want to give you shots. I can't put.

I'm the three-putt king. Teet de Green, I'm pretty solid. You know, I hit the ball quite far from my size but just can't put for shit. You've got to get a lesson from Rory, maybe. I don't know if I want a lesson around for Rory. I'll take going off Brad Faxon. Fax is incredible.

Actually, he gave me a lesson at O'Hoopy. And the putter I have today is the putter that he got fitted for me based on that, like, 15-minute tune-up. So, shout out Fax. He's got a great out. I definitely need a less enough facts when it comes to the putting out. Anyone that wants to listen, I'll tell Rory.

I'm seeing Rory this weekend, so I might ask him actually for a little tip because it's gotten very bad. I can hit a line. I can't. I can hear it in your voice. There's like a trouble there. Yeah. It's one of my big life's troubles. I think about it nonstop.

There's worse life troubles, but actually that is a problematical. You'll figure it out. And you know, you're also an entrepreneur. started your own management company, modest. What was the inspiration for that? Knowing a few of the golfers, aren't Rory and Justin Rose and a few of the boys. I spent a bit of time around the tour,

and I always felt like there was a lot of complaining from young guys who had just turned pro about how mismanaged they've been and how they feel like they're not getting the one-on-one care that they need. You know, turning pro is such a big thing. You go from playing college golf or, you know, low-ranked stuff to be on the European tour

or the PJ tour every week. it's a big, it's a big transition and if it's not managed well and allowing the players to just do the job on the course and not worry about anything else. Like I always say like I can't hit you a six foot put for you, but I can book your flight. I can get you a logo on your shirt, you know, and I always felt like there was a gap there for for some of these younger people and knowing some people in golf like my business partner, Mark McDonald. Mark's a great guy. Yeah, great guy. And he was working. with Adidas for a while and then I was like, should we try and start some sort of management

company and see who we go. Obviously at the start, it very much felt like the golf industry was kind of laughing at me and like, you know, who's this pop star dude thinking he's a golf manager and blah, blah, blah. But I just felt like from the background of the music management I've had, it's always been very caring and I'm still very, like, close with my managers and like they've done so much for me, taught me so much. And we come from a, like, everything is all. if we wanted to start a business outside of music, everything is in-house. We have, you know, travel sections and commercial partners and, like, we have everything within. So it's about managing people from there.

So I just felt like there was an opportunity to do that. Obviously, took a while to get off the ground, turned those numbers green. But it's been amazing. Good for you. We've had multiple, multiple wins across basically every tour that there is out there over the last sort of. We're coming up in 10 years this year, actually, which is crazy. And the focus to do Golf versus Music

Yeah, good question actually I've never thought about that I don't know I guess it was the first thing that came to my mind And music I feel like I would try and get too involved I would have opinions on absolutely everything Yeah, it's hard not to if you're you Yeah, I would listen to every song that was sent to me

And I'd break it down, I'd too honest Yeah, right You know, or any of that Like golfers was a note I knew enough about it to be involved in it. Like, I know how the industry works. I play it. I love it.

It's like a side hustle for want of a better phrase for me. And I felt like it was something I felt passionate about that I wanted to be, to be involved in outside of music. I guess it's probably the only way to answer that. Well, I do feel like the best businesses are started by entrepreneurs who feel like a problem they've experienced in one way or another. And, like, you know, you're someone who obviously had to be, you know, managed. and you know what it feels like to be talent and you know what it feels like to have to do deals with sponsors or not.

You know what it feels like to have to travel around the world and what bugs you about it and what makes life easier. And so it doesn't surprise me at all that that foundation could build a great talent agency. Yeah, no, it definitely felt like that.

We felt like if we wanted to do it, we had it ready to go. It was a ready to go business. It just needed a name and it needed... I like the name. Yeah, when it comes from the... It's modest with an exclamation. Mark.

A bit of irony, but we just felt like that. And then it's about getting the right people in place. And I got lucky, very lucky with Mark having him as a friend in the first place. And then him knowing that industry, his brother also works in the industry. So they come from a golf family. You know, and then when we signed Terrell Hatton, you know, he came with his one-to-one, his day-to-day manager, Danny Wardrop. Once the three of us are on the same page and running the business and then employing the right people, as you know very well, it's all about, it's all people. It's all about people and how they interact with people and the types of people you have working in your business. It makes such a difference. And it's funny because I always find it, I always find it amazing how certain people attract certain people. Like I would say all of our players, all 14 of them, I'd say we're very close with. That's great.

Like there's a real family atmosphere. And like even on the tours now, you'll walk onto a range and you'll see four of our guys right next to each other or into the player dining area. Like it's very easy to find our players because they're all kind of good mates. That's great. And it's got to be the hardest to go from zero to three people or four versus now you're at 14. You've got a foundation. Yeah. Our first player was, he was a very successful Italian golf in his amateur career called Guido Miliazzi.

He's gone on to win a few times in the European tour now. to get him on board to try and convince a young person and his family who have taken care of him the whole way up to this point that we were the right people, even though we'd zero players, and the industry was already there and formed, and there were managers out there, you know, the big X-Ls and the IMGs and all these big companies to try and convince that young player that everyone's looking for, that we were the right spot for him was difficult. And once that started, then I always said that the driving range is a very small place. They all talk to each other.

Industry is smaller than it looks. It's so much smaller than it looks. I got a preview of that actually during COVID because the PGA tour procured whoop for like a thousand players and caddies and media members. And we got thrust to be inside the bubble. And so it was a real trip because I would show up to a PGA tour event and it felt like I had just joined, you know, a private club with the best golfers in the world. Yeah.

Because no one was allowed that. there. That's right during COVID. And it was like still like hazmat suits. Like it was a crazy era. Oh my God. Yeah. I remember watching on TV. To June, July of 2020 when people thought the world was going to end. And you were in there. And I was in there with, you know, these these golfers. And I was just amazed by what a close-knit community it is. Another thing that's unique to golf, because I've now gotten to interact in all sports, is in golf, it's very collaborative. Yeah. You know, part of the reason whoop spread so fast in golf, along with the COVID stuff, was that people like Rory and JT and others were telling each other to go try it.

You're going to go and do that. You're going to get the best out yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And I realized, and Rory actually said this on a podcast, but he said to me that it's because they think of themselves as competing against themselves and the course. Yeah. Whereas.

That's fair. In tennis, let's take another individual sport, they really think they're competing against each other. Yeah. 100%. And so, you know, it's a much more secret of community. Yeah. And so that was, I thought it's just a cool thing about golf.

Yeah, that's why I've been amazed watching all these interviews recently with Al Krasn's Center. I'm like, you two have ran each other ragged around these courts all year. And now you're doing interviews together and being friends with each other. I saw an insane statistic on them, which is, as of like the last match they just played, in head-to-head competition, they've each one now won exactly the same number of points. It was like, it was like 1,621 points each. that they've won. That is mind-blown. Isn't that crazy?

I would say, and I actually seen Roger Federer a couple of days ago, but I'm a huge tennis fan. I went to a lot of tennis. It was down in Australia. A lot went to the Australian Open, go to Wimbled in most years. And I cannot believe the level these two are at. And I don't know whether it's the rackets being quicker or technology or whatever, but those guys are good.

These two are unbelievable. And how lucky is the sport to have gotten them right on the eve of, of like, you know, Federer and Nadal and Joakovich. It's amazing. It's worse.

We are so lucky to have it. But yeah, I went to watch the Wimbledon final this year. I was blown away by the fitness, the speed. I've never seen tennis

been played at that speed before. It's not. Yeah, those guys are insane. You've got your own charity now, too. Talk a little bit about that. Yeah,

about where are we now with that? Probably 10 years with that too. Every couple of years, Justin Roll. and I we have a very original name called Horn and Rose. Strong. It's a really strong name. It needed a name. We hosted a charity gala that we for cancer research every two years get some some of our

friends in the room and and partners and things like that and you guys were very kindly involved this year which was amazing really helped. No, we were happy to do it. You know we're raising you know million on the evening every night which is absolutely incredible. People always ask me like why cancer research. It's the one thing we all have in common, sadly, that we have to research something like this. But it's been an amazing thing for us to do. Like me or Rosie are genuinely like friends outside of any public facing stuff. We'll go on holiday together. We'll play golf together during the week. We'll, you know, do dinners together with all the couples and things

like that. But we felt like we needed to do something with our friendship. Sure. And we have the opportunity to raise loads of money and have a good time while we do it. So we felt like this was the right way to do it. And we've, we've raised like, well, close to, I think we're up at six, six million or something like that. And I'm just amazing just for, we have a great team to put it together and stuff like that. But load bearing wise, it's such a cool way to raise money. You know, we go up where we have a great time. The room's full of people that we know and love. I'll get up and sing, Rosie, you get up and do some weird dance moves. And we, we get to raise a lot of money for a good cause. And it's

pretty cool. So I got to ask you about Rose and Rory at Augusta. Like, were you losing your mind to see these two mates of yours in a playoff in what, I mean, it's one of the most memorable sporting events of my life. Yeah. I was nauseous at one point watching that final round because I was rooting for Rory and it was a period like around the 13th hole or 14th hole where you're like, oh my God, no, like could this go? Could this not happen? And I mean, here, you look, are close with both those guys that go to the playoff. So where were you when you were watching that? I actually, you know what?

Funnily enough, I left on the Saturday afternoon. Okay. Oh, no, the Saturday night, because at that point, our player, Terrell Hatton, was still kind of in the mixer, and we were thinking, if he gets a good Saturday around in here, he could be right up there too. And then I stayed and then flew that night, and he was kind of out of it by then, and flew, and I landed it, and I walked in my front door in Los Angeles when Rory was sitting, that first shot out of the bunker on one.

So I'd like traveled overnight. I drove the rental car back to Atlanta airport, got in a plane, made my way back to L.A. And I watched the whole round from there. I'm obviously now, very sad that I wasn't there. Yeah. But I'm sure it was hectic for Rory afterwards and it was a very busy night.

But the whole day was just nuts. Like watching Rosie having 10 birdies at Augusta on a Sunday. Unbelievable. Of a major at his age is just amazing to watch what he's been able to do the way he looks after his body. You should get him on this podcast.

That's a man that knows how to restore a body. And then watching the ebbs and flows of Rory's round, being in control, being out of control, the shot on seven, the shot on 13, the duff on 13, the crazy shot on 15. Unbelievable. Where he roped it around that tree. Tree is nuts. I mean, there were moments in that round where he was like very clearly one of the best golfers of all time. And there were moments in that round where you're like, wait, what?

What's going on here? Is that, that's, who is this guy? I know, do you know, I've never actually had the long conversation with him about it. Like, I'll see him this week and we'll have a chat about it, but I'd love to know, like, the top process. Yeah, as the evidence flowed through that round. I'd love to know what, like, I'm sure you've got whooped data for it, but I'm sure his heart rate was going through the roof. But, like, I found it tough in the, in the playoff. I mean, for the game of golf, for Rory to go and do the grand slam, for the guy he is, for the, the resilience that, you know, he showed over the last 14 years at that place and in major chance.

championships in general is just insane. We're such a normal guy. A lot of these really, really top athletes, it feels like you're built at different stuff, like you act differently. Rory's just the most, as you know, Rory's like one of the most normal dudes of all time. Really normal.

He just has this extraordinary ability and clearly psychologically more than anything. Like he's a fit guy, he hits the ball a mile, but I mean, everyone, most... Well, he's got the thing you have too, which is like you're both very grounded in your success.

Yeah. Like, it's hard. impressive that you've both been able to do that. So when you were watching that playoff, like I just picture you leaning in, like, on a sofa, not knowing what to think. Like, did you, uh,

did you find yourself rooting for either of them or you just, you couldn't even talk? I was, I couldn't, but could barely talk. And the thoughts were, for the game of golf, this is huge if Rory wins. Yeah. It's huge for Rory. It's huge for the game.

Like, if you want something, you know, everyone's always talking about growing the game and moving the needle. If you want something to move the needle, Rory McElroy wins a Masters at Augusta after 14 years of fighting it out and being in contention and throwing it away. And like the storyline is we're going to be watching those clips. Forever. The first clip when the Golf Channel put on, or ESPN put it on next April, it's just going to be Rory on his knees. Well, there's a great, there's an amazing photo of him on 18 after the putt goes in and his putter goes over his shoulder.

and there's a shot where it's just the putter floating and it actually looks like gravity has been inverted and like you can literally feel the weight that's come off of his body. And I started crying myself because I know like, I'm sure you have two sat with him and the way he talks about the game of golf would get you fired up. Yeah.

Like he really is in love with the game and it's, I'm delighted for him. And then on the other side of the story was Rosie who, oh, I can't remember what year was, it was 17, was it, or 18, when Sergio beat Rosie in a playoff and I went on vacation straight after that with him when we got on the plane that night

and I know how that affected him. It's hard. To watch him come back and still have the career he's got a 40-something is amazing and I really wanted for Rosie to do it. He's a very good friend of mine. I obviously wanted him to, I was completely torn.

Would have been happy either way. I feel like he's going to win that tournament. I don't know, that's my gut on it. I mean, he's got more top tens, I think, than anyone in the last 30 years. He was so gritty in that round. Like it was so fun Like as much as I wanted Rory to win the whole time

There was still like a part of me I was like looking at Roses round And I was like God this is extraordinary Nah is amazing And he always plays well around there He's had more I think he's had more top tens Than most people

Most of the tour in the last like 10 years around there I was honestly completely torn I didn't know what to do But I am obviously delighted for Rory I'm honestly not just saying this for the cameras That's exactly what I was thinking I was thinking like Yeah

Either way whatever way this goes This is amazing It would have been also quite dramatic had he not won. And like, I think we're all, there's a relief there as a friend base for Rory. Like, he needed that. And he deserved it. So, well, this has been terrific, man.

It's been fun hanging out with you. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I've watched plenty of them. So it's nice to be in your lovely office. It's amazing. Thanks again for being on Woop, too. Love it.

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sign up for a free 30-day trial membership. New members can use the code Will, W-I-L, to get a $60 credit on Woop Accessories when you enter the code at checkout. That's a wrap, folks. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green.