WHOOP Podcast - How 18 Holes Changed Neal Shipley's Life

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

On this week’s episode, WHOOP Founder and CEO Will Ahmed is joined by pro golfer Neal Shipley. Neal has had one of the most memorable years in golf so far during 2024. He went back to back as the low amateur at the Masters and the U.S. Open, which included playing Sunday at Augusta alongside Tiger Woods. A couple weeks after the U.S. Open, Neal officially turned pro and has already achieved a Top 20 and a Top 10 finish in only 5 career pro starts on the PGA Tour. Will and Neal discuss Neal’s Masters experience (1:50), Tiger Woods influencing golf (5:49), growing up and falling in love with golf (11:17), the 2023 US Amateur (15:31), the explosion of WHOOP in golf (19:21), Neal’s US Open experience (25:32), playing on the PGA Tour (29:37), building the perfect golfer (33:53), and what’s next for Neal (41:48).Resources:Neal's InstagramFollow WHOOPwww.whoop.comTrial WHOOP for FreeInstagramTikTokXFacebookLinkedInFollow Will AhmedInstagramXLinkedInSupport the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

winning the semi-final match, getting into the U.S. Open and the Masters, that was like a life-changing, you know, 18 holes for me. And, you know, I was really fortunate to have won that match and some comeback fashion and be able to, you know, go on this journey that I'm on now. What's up, folks? Welcome back to the Whoop podcast. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Whoop. We are on a mission to unlock human performance. If you're thinking about joining WOOP, you can visit Woop.com, sign up for a free 30-day trial membership, and unlock your health and performance now. Okay, on this week's episode, I'm joined by pro golfer Neil Shipley. Neil has had one of the more memorable years in golf so far, especially as an amateur,

because he was the low amateur at both the Masters and the U.S. Open. And he played Sunday at Augusta alongside Tiger Woods. Just to recap, he joined Ken Venturi, James, Jack Nicholas, Phil Mickelson, Matt Coocher, and Victor Hovland to win low amateur at the Masters and the U.S. Open in the same year. That is pretty great company. Neil and I discuss his experience winning low amateur at the Masters, playing with Tiger Woods, his journey to becoming a pro golfer, the explosion of whooping golf and his data from the U.S. Open.

He's a longtime whoop member, building the perfect golfer. And what is next for Neil in 2024? If you have any questions, you want to see answered on the podcast, email, musk podcast at whoop.com. Call us 508-443-49-5-2. Here is my conversation with pro-golfer, Neil Shipley. Neil, welcome to the Wooop podcast. Thanks for having me on. It's great to be here. We were just talking about what an unbelievable master's experience you had. You were the low amateur there. And you were just describing to me, you had your best friend on the bag. Talk a little bit about that experience. Yeah, it's, I think part of having him on the bag was to create a

memory that both of us would never forget and certainly with everything that happened that week it's something that we cherish and we still talk about and i mean i saw him the other week and it's just man how crazy is it that we did this with tiger and we had all these memories and jokes and yeah just one the most fun weeks in my entire life you know i've always dreamed of playing the masters and to have carter next to me that entire way was just awesome what was your impression rolling into Augusta. Well, I mean, the first time you rolled down Magnolia Lane, it's, you know, as a few months before the tournament, and it's quite honestly emotional because that's one of those places that you almost feel like you'll never get to until you're actually there.

Totally. And it didn't really feel real that I was going to play the Masters until I got on property. And when I got there, it was just like, it's just so serene. And you can feel the history on the course. And it's just such a special place in golf. The anticipation patient coming down magnolia lane is one of the i mean there's like certain places in the world that have certain oras and that that drive in has an aura yeah it really does and it's so cool too because you you drive up to that gate and they have those big pillars and the security officer just click some of his belt and the i mean they drop down on the ground and he's like go ahead and enjoy your day and you're just i mean i went two miles an hour down magnolia lane probably took 10 minutes

to get down there just soaking it in it was uh it's just yeah something really special so you go a couple months before and I assume you had to be there with a member actually the tournament allows us to do five trips five days on our own and we can bring one guest to walk with us not play but just walk so it was I got it kind of had a lot of people begging me to take them who did you pick I got my brother to go there for a day my assistant coach who carried from with the US Amateur I had him for two days he was kind of part of my strategy team for the week and then my buddy Carter who's going to caddy for me. I had him for two other days. So it was, uh, each of those trips and was just was really special and had its own great memories. What was your impression of

the golf course the first time? I mean, that first time that you play, you kind of look around and you're like, well, that's where Bubba Watson hit that shot. And that's where Phil Mickelson had that hit that shot on 13. And, you know, this is where Tiger made that put. You have that like encyclopedia in your head, right? It's like, you know, you kind of look around all these places. You're like, wow. And you kind of see like holy smokes like some of these shots that these guys hit were really hard and you kind of get a really good appreciation for like you know how special those moments were and and the golf course is hard too it's it's really tough well two two of the shots I actually went to when I played there like one was the bubble Watson on uh was it 10 that crazy hook shot he played as a lefty

from the for the pines and that shot's totally insane when you stand there It doesn't make any sense. And then the other that I actually was even more impressed by was the Tiger Woods chippin on 16. And I dropped a ball there because the pin was exactly in the place. Like it was in that Sunday location. And I mean, I'm like a three handicap or whatever. So obviously I'm not anywhere in your all leagues. But, you know, normally you think you can hit a chip from the side of the green.

And I couldn't even get it within like 30 feet. It was just impossible that chip that he made. Yeah, I tried it too in one of my trips and it's really hard. And then when I played with him, I asked him about it. And he's like, well, back when I played it and it must have been 2005, they hadn't redone the green yet. So the slope was like twice as bad. So he was like how much harder it was back then too.

And I was like, well, all right, Tiger. So it was harder than. Yeah, it's harder than. I was like, you know, it's just nuts. Some of the crazy things he did is just, I mean, that's why he's one of the greatest to ever play. And I think a great ambassador for the game as well. How old are you now? I'm 23.

So you're 23. I'm 34. But for me, Tiger Woods was kind of the it athlete, you know, in my, like in my lifetime growing up. I mean, I had a little bit of Jordan. Like Jordan was probably a little too old for you. But I'm curious, Tiger Woods, like what kind of pull did he have for you and becoming a pro golfer? I mean, definitely had a lot. I mean, when I was growing up in like 2005 through maybe like 08, 2009 when he had a pretty good run there, a couple good years, few majors. I was, you know,

five, six, seven, eight years old. And, you know, really time when I started to love golf. And so he, I was always rooting for Tiger. That's for sure. And I always wanted to see him win. And man, I remember when seeing him in 19, do what he did at Augusta, that was just so, you know, as a guy who grew up watching him while as young is great to see that again when his older and we just kind of see those special moments I mean I really appreciate him and what he's done for the game and he's made all of us on the PJ tour a lot a lot of money because her sizes are way bigger and all that it's been uh he's it's uh certainly one the most important figures I think for me in the game was the first time you ever met him or played

with him the Sunday at Augusta yeah I met him for the first time the range that Sunday morning, which was, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous walking up to shake his hand. I wonder what the whoop stats would say on that. We could probably pull that. That would be funny if that was like the highest heart rate of the day. Probably was. Yeah. And was playing with him what you expected? Was it, did it end up feeling normal eventually? What was it? It really, I was expecting him to be a little bit more, a little more quiet. not as talkative and it was really cool because he was telling stories and talking the entire day and he really made an effort to, you know, ask about me and, you know, my journey in the game.

And it was just a super special day. And also, I think one of the best parts was getting to sit back and watch him, you know, like walk up 18 or walk up to the T on 12, like the ovations that he got and just kind of realize how much he meant. Or even on 16, walking to 17T, he shakes Burns' hand. And, I mean, you get the tree meme on that. But just watching that was like really, it's like, well, it's a pretty special moment that I was had a front row seat too. Now, over the course of those four days, what was your mindset for the tournament? Were you just grateful to be there at any point where you're like, okay, I got to be low amateur, I want to win this? Like, what was the competitive juices like?

Yeah, I kind of went in there without a lot of expectations because I didn't want to limit myself to only low amateur, but also, you know, the reality is it's my first PGA tour event, my first major. I'm at Augusta. There's a lot of challenges. And, you know, I don't, you never know if you're ever going to get back there. So I went in just trying to enjoy it and make sure that, you know, I was just committed to every shot. and kind of had a good game plan as well. Because when I look back in 15 years, if I had not played well,

but I knew I was putting my all into it, I'd have no regrets about that week. So that's kind of the goal for us. At any point, did you feel more nervous as you played as you were doing more successfully in the tournament? You know, coming down the stretch on Friday, what's interesting there is you don't really know what the cut line is at.

They don't, the scoreboards show the top leaders, but you have no idea of what, you know, the 55th guy's at. So you kind of have to guess and, you know, coming down on the stretch, we're at two or three over on the day, I think at one over, two over total. And I was thinking my head, like, I'm pretty close to the cut line. So like those last four holes are pretty, pretty stressful and had a lot of, you know, definitely a lot of anxiety going on on the golf course and a lot of nerves. And it was a lot of adrenaline, too. I bet the result was low amateur now on Sunday at what point did you feel like that was in play was it fairly obvious to you you're going to win that oh yeah I guess you know because um we made the cut and it was only amateur so I knew that was kind of already given thing and I think that

a lot freed me up to just really enjoy the weekend and play great on Saturday but honestly shooting 80 on Saturday was one of the best things for my career because I got to go hang out with Tiger Woods on Sunday at Augusta. It's kind of meant to be, right? Yeah. So it was, yeah, that was like, you know, honestly, too, I don't think if that doesn't happen, I might not be here in this studio with you. You know, Tiger just has that pole and we were the future group for the first nine holes and it was only us on there.

So it was kind of, you know, just this great day for me. And I think I really kind of vaulted my career to where I am now. Well, I liked you well before you played with Tiger because I saw a whoopster. on your wrist so that you're you're already high in my book let's go back to just the the origins for you like you grew up in pittsburgh did you always uh gravitate to the game of golf i definitely did gravitate towards it at a young age um i first had a club my hand at like not three four years old but i'm being honest like i loved baseball and i loved basketball i played both those for a long time I think at probably some point in my middle school baseball career, I probably wanted to be an MLB pitcher.

But I kind of started to settle on golf as I got older, got into high school, and kind of made it my sole focus kind of by the time I turned 14, 15, and just love the game. I love the social aspect of the game. I think it's so great for just people's mental health, too. There's just a lot of benefits to playing golf and meeting new friends and meeting new people and being outdoors and beautiful settings. I just, you know, just love that part of the game. So how good were you when you were 14 years old? I wasn't the best junior golfer in the world, but I was certainly a solid player, I'd say. You know, I end up being ranked, you know, probably like 400th of my class at the end of high school when I was like 17.

When I was 14, I wasn't very much worse. than that so a lot of development happens scratch golfer though yeah probably about scratch yeah okay was there a point when in sort of those teenage years where you're like yeah i'm i'm like actually really good at this like i could do this professionally or did you never really think like that i never really thought like that my goal is always just to play division one golf first okay so that's the first yeah i kind of always take it step by step process by process so i kind of got to you know that place maybe when i was in my sophomore junior year was like i think i'm good enough to play division one golf, just a matter of getting a scholarship somewhere. And then eventually I got into college

and felt like I was good enough to play professionally. And what's happened now, I didn't think would happen. So a little bit faster timeline, but it's been a lot of fun. So you led your high school team to two state championships. Were there any big moments in that sort of evolution that you feel like helped to find your young career? I think I can remember. I think my, the second state championship my senior year i had a really is only 18 holes for us uh in pennsylvania and i had a really tough back nine i think or front nine um and then the back nine i really turned it on and kind of steadied the ship and help pull through to you know vault the team into first place and i think that was uh showing that type of grit and you know just kind of

showing that you're never out of a round, you know, no matter, you know, what you're at or what hole you're on. That resiliency is something that I still carry with me today. The old 40-30 or something like that. Yeah, a lot of that, you know, we, I'm definitely good for a few of those every once in a while. Yeah, that's great. And, and so you end up going on to James Madison University and then ultimately transferring. Talk about sort of the overall collegiate process for you yeah well you know james madison i definitely consider that where i that's where i went to college and had my college experience and then um i loved loved it there but kind of outgrew it both academically just the grad programs there kind of weren't in my wheelhouse and you know i felt like

i could move to a golf program that was a little bit better suited towards you know developing my game and just kind of fell in love with how i was state once i got on campus and met coach mosley there and you know they really helped me develop my game into what it is now and had just a lot of fun there had great teammates that really pushed me to be better and i think that's something that was really important for me is having people with that goal of playing professional golf around me uh to kind of push me and you know make me continue to develop you're the all big 10 first team which is a pretty big honor and runner up at the 2023 u.s amateur do you look back on that fondly yeah um that week you know that u s ammeter week it's about a

it's about a year ago now when it happened and that's what kicked off all this craziness for me and because that's what got you into augusta too right yeah it got me into the master just got me into the u.s open and you know that week is i still talk to the host family i stayed with and i had one of my teammates staying with me there as well um you know the my host uh tim and sue tim will was a, you know, NCAA champion diver at Ohio State and an Olympian and it was just such a fun week to have a bunch of Buckeyes around. And, you know, those are the type of memories I remember from that week is just kind of the off the golf course stuff and enjoying the just the journey that was that entire week. And obviously the result was, you know, obviously you want to win the

golf tournament, but, you know, winning the semi-final match, getting into, you know, the U.S. Open and the Masters, that was like a life-changing, you know, 18 holes for me. So in a sense, that's almost the biggest moment of the tournament as the semis. Yeah, I think that's one of I was most nervous, probably. That match means the most for sure, because if you lose that match, you get a thanks for coming and you get to, you know, try. again next year. But if you win that match, then all of a sudden there's all these perks that come with it. And that was, you know, I was really fortunate to have won that match and

some comeback fashion and be able to, you know, go on this journey that I'm on now. For people who aren't familiar with the U.S. amateur, just describe the process for getting in and then the format of it. Yeah. So last year, for us, it was a 36-hole qualifier where you'd have maybe 70 or 80 players for about two spots, two to four spots. So it's just really hard to get into period. Yeah, it is. You know, if you're top 50 in the world, which I wasn't at the time, you have an automatic bid. So that's the easiest way to get in. Probably. Top 50 amateur in the world. Yeah. Top 50 amateur in the world. And then you don't that yet to go to qualifying. So I went through qualifying, got through. And then you go.

When you get to the championship, it's 36 holes of stroke play with 312 players on two different golf courses. You have to be top 64 or ties, and then they go into a match play bracket. And then, you know, you play, that would be, was it, it's like eight or six rounds of golf, I think. Yeah. So you go 464 to 32. Yeah, 18. And so you're playing twice a day. Yeah.

For the first round of 64 and 32. those are both one day and then you do round of 16 and round of eight in one day and that's a marathon of a day um and then your semifinals are on its own and finals are on its own but the finals is also 36 holes so if you had in practice rounds it's probably something you know 150 some holes or 170 some holes and it's an exhausting week yeah it's yeah recovery that week is really huge and you know we're in elevation as well so that adds a whole other factor is hot staying hydrated is really difficult um and so it was just pounding fluids a lot of electrolytes i'd be doing a lot like norma tech therapy or um i don't think it did a lot

of ice baths back then but i probably should have right a lot of that type of stuff to kind of stay fresh because you got to be on the top of your game. Because even though we're amateurs, there's a lot of really, really good players that are tour quality playing that event. Well, the explosion of whoop and golf for some people was surprising. And people would say me like, why is it so popular in golf? Like, I wouldn't have expected golf. And I think part of the reason is that so many pro golfers are putting like their bodies through actually an enormous grind that isn't really seen from a fan perspective. It's kind of like, oh, well, they get to play golf like what a great living right but you know there's all the travel and there's the practicing

and there's an increase in training and then there's the stress of the six hour round that you have to go play and and so i think one of the many reasons who it's done well in golf is to actually measure that kind of other 20 hours of the day or 18 hours of the day when you're not even in that golf environment but you're dealing with all the stresses of it it sounds like um you've been on whoop for a little while now. Yeah, I think I've been on since 2020, kind of joined during the pandemic. Yeah. And then it has been really helpful for those reasons that you stated, you know, when you're, you know, like this past nine weeks, I've been on the road playing, you know, PJ Tour U.S. Open, going through the, you know, playing a four-round tournament,

traveling to the next one, practice rounds, playing a four-round tournament, and then traveling again and just rinse and repeat for four or five weeks and you have to do you have to be really careful about how much strain you put on your body because you know when you get to that third you know for one week you can kind of manage but by the time you get to that third or fourth week that's when it starts to catch up to and you start to be mentally fatigued or physically fatigued and then you're not performing your best and so all these things come into play like nutrition how you're recovering. Even, you know, like if I wake up in the morning and I see, you know, my recovery score is just not where it should be. That might be a day. I only, you know, if I'm able to, if my schedule

allows to just go to the range and hit balls or just kind of, you know, try to take something out to give myself a little bit more rest and a better chance to recover for that next day. I think that's smart. I mean, I think in some ways, like golfers in sort of a pre-whoop environment almost just thought like more is more, you know, and they didn't actually, they didn't always realize just how much strain they're putting on their bodies. You shared your, your whoop data with us. Like, you have an average day strain of 15. Pretty high, right? Yeah. I mean, that's, that's like very high. You've got a healthy heart here. You've got an HRV that's around 140 resting heart rate in the mid 50s. Uh, your sleep efficiency is good, 93%. Any tips for, uh, for

sleep gosh i mean i i tend to you i like to get really hydrated before bed and then also i'm a big big on having a really dark room and um i usually you know a lot of times i'll be on a phone or laptop it may be in my bed watching you know going through social media or netflix for you know 20 30 minutes but kind of once i hit that 20 minute mark i try to put it away um i should probably switch over to reading or something actually that probably be better for me but um have you ever tried blue light glasses i i have i have had a pair um i didn't you know i actually lost the pair and i just it's one of those things i don't really think about a lot well i'm going to give you a pair because we made the best ones and i'm not kidding wearing these just

it it improves your sleep quality everything else being the same it's amazing oh that's that's awesome i'd yeah i love to try them out because that's um that's something that i see my it's so easy to start scrolling on TikTok or Instagram and you know it's you could go through the Huberman lab stuff of all the dopamine hits that it gives your brain and you know getting off of it and early in the in the evening is just you know way better for your sleep and I noticed that too when I'm only on it for 10 minutes I sleep better one trend I see in your whoop data is that you tend to start the week with lower recoveries and then they kind of steadily build towards the weekend. Of course, tournaments are Thursday to Sunday, so that's a good thing.

But like if we look at your master's week, for example, you had an 11% recovery on Monday, 44% on Tuesday, 71% on Wednesday, and then you go 62%, 39%, 70%, and then 86% for that Tiger round. What would you say is happening earlier in the week versus later in the week for some of these tournaments yeah i think um i got there on property on saturday afternoon and we spent all sunday walking the golf course getting notes down for the yardage book because out there that's a huge process um books they give us aren't necessarily the most detailed in the world so it's designed to be that way so if you've been there for five or six years you kind of have an edge on some of the younger guys and so we that's interesting like i bet like fred couples book or whatever is super

valuable or like some of these caddies that have been there for 10 years it's like you know they have anything you could think of on there yeah and so you know we were trying to get a book that was adequate for the week so we spent i mean six hours on the golf course and then i hit balls and it's probably you know overreaching a bit in terms of how much i was preparing and i think i've matured more recently of realizing that like rest is sometimes good practice you know you don't need to i don't need to be on the range. And I think it's a trend that you see in young golfers is guys will spend too much time practicing because they see everyone else practicing and think they need to be there all day.

And in reality, it's a lot better to just get in, do your work and get out. What's up, folks? If you are enjoying this podcast or if you care about health, performance, fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop. That's right. You can check out whoop at whoop.com. It measures everything around sleep, strain, and you can now sign up for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high

performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just at whoop.com. Back to the guests. So US Open, you were a little bit, you had a little bit of a higher recovery earlier in the week. So you're 44% and then jumped up 87% and then you're kind of like low green high yellow through the through the weekend although you had a 16% on Saturday talk a little bit about your u.s. open experience yeah um i mean that week was really hot really muggy you know by the time you get back to the house staying at you would that'd be so tired and pretty much want to go right to bed um and if i recall i think that's saturday or friday night going to saturday that i mean i just couldn't fall asleep

that night for whatever reason um i'm not sure what that was about and so just woke up not feeling you know great but yeah at the end of the day you know you had to go out there and try and perform i think i played pretty well that saturday you know that's one of the struggles with golf is you're playing every week and you're going to have days where you're maybe not feeling your best and you just kind of have to suck it up sometimes and then that next night try to get as good rest as possible to kind of get yourself in a good shape for tomorrow well you notice anything different about your body when you're recovery on whoops lower versus higher like will you treat it a little differently on the range or anything like that you know i think physically i tend to you know the spots

where i might have aches and pains you know i'll tend to feel that a bit more um you know a lot of times for me i might have a little bit of you know low back tightness um stuff like that and i you know tend to feel a little bit more fatigued as well so i think whenever i'm don't get a good recovery You know, it's important to focus on just your warm up and, you know, maybe before you get on the range of stretching and making sure that I'm loose and ready to go and, you know, try to avoid injuries and stuff from not being, you know, pliable before you start hitting balls. So you were also the low am at the U.S. Open.

Was your experience at the master's something that helped you feel more comfortable with taking that on? Like, did you, was that another situation where you felt like, okay, I can do this? I think after that master's experience, I felt prepared to take on those best players in the world. You know, being able to make the cut out there and was one of the highest cuts in recent master's history, I felt great about my game and great about how my game traveled to really tough golf courses. And so coming to Pinehurst, I really like the golf course. It was in great shape for us.

And I felt like I could really compete there, especially because, you know, there's some things I did well in my game that some other guys can't do. Like I can just hit a really high ball that lands soft on the green and not everyone can do that out there. And I hit a little further, which, you know, all of that's kind of conducive to playing well at a U.S. Open. And so kind of going into the week, the goal there really was to be low amateur and try to compete to climb the leaderboard and shoot a low score. So, Ken Venturi, 1956, Jack Nicholas, 1960, Phil Mickelson, 1991, Matt Coocher, 1998, and Victor Hovlin, 2019, and then obviously Neil Shipley, 2024, that is the group of golfers that have won low amateur at the Masters in the U.S. Open in the same year. It's a pretty rare company you got there.

It's pretty crazy to kind of read that. I've seen it before, and, you know, I think, obviously, I have big shoes to fill there because we have some of the best to have ever done it. I mean, you said Jack Nicholas is on that list. And, I mean, he's the goat probably by a lot of people, just by major count, obviously. And, you know, an Ohio state guy as well. So I got the chance to meet Jack. And it's kind of crazy to know that I'm kind of in one of those stat lists with them. And, yeah, it just gives me a lot of confidence, too, that I have, if those guys are the only ones to do it, then I have the game to go out and have a great career like all of them have so far, too.

And at this stage, you're now playing on the PGA tour. How has that been? It's been, being crazy. You know, we've been playing on sponsors exemptions and just kind of taking whatever opportunities we can get. And I've just felt so comfortable out there. just that experience at Augusta and the experience of the U.S. Open, I feel like I can compete. I've played really well. I've had a top 10, a couple top 20s, I think. And I feel when I play at these guys out there, obviously they're great players.

But I feel like I can go out there and beat them if I'm playing well. And so that's just, you know, it's great to see. And, you know, I've had a lot of stretches of, I've shown resiliency after some bad holes or bad stretches. made a couple cuts when, you know, maybe things weren't looking great after 27 holes and, you know, just feeling really good about where my game's at and just excited for the opportunities that I'm going to get in the fall to go out and, you know, compete with those guys again. There's so many statistics in golf, you know, like your average putts per round or strokes gained, you know, on the greens or driving and all these things.

And I'm curious, is that something that you find yourself, now looking at you I mean for the first time you kind of have more information on your game than you probably ever have had intuitively you've known certain things like oh I potted well or oh I drove well or whatever but um do you find you're diving into all that data and does it affect how you practice yeah for sure now that I have I think I've like 16 rounds on tour of shot link data is what it is yeah um it gives you so much detail and so now that I have a sample size that's big enough I've been kind of diving into some of it it. And it has really, you know, maybe affected how I practice. You know, I've still booked out a lot of

time to every part of my game. But, you know, for example, my putting, one place I really need to improve is from like four to ten feet. I'm losing a lot of shots from four to ten feet. You know, my lag putting has been okay. And inside four feet, I've been great. But if I can make like more five, six, seven, eight footers and all of a sudden we start gaining a lot more shots on the field, which, you know, in turn, you gain a shot or two more tournament, then that's, you know, huge over the course of the season. So just kind of been, you know, instead of with my putting, you know, focusing more on that mid-range and kind of adjusting.

And, you know, I think that's one thing about golfers is we're always tweaking things and we're always looking to find an edge somewhere. And I think having that access to data has been really huge for me to kind of know where I need to kind of look for that next edge and where to get better and become more well-rounded. One of the things I find fascinating about the data is just how it demonstrates how close everyone is. I mean, I think Rory McElroy was the one who said it to me, but he said the difference between being top five in the world and being like 100 in the world is like a little bit over one shot around. I guess in terms of stroke average.

Yeah. I mean, that's pretty insane. It's nuts. It just goes to show how good all those guys are. and, you know, how important it is throughout the course of a season to really be on your game, you know, and not, not ever really give up on a tournament because you never know what can happen. And, you know, one shot, you know, it happens every year where some guy misses his card by a shot or misses the playoff by a shot, like Justin Thomas last year, missed the playoff by, you know, one shot.

Yeah. And he could probably look back at a two or four footer, you know, back in April. that if you would have made, you would have been in the playoffs. And so it's important to, like, you know, really treat every event the same. It's pretty nuts how razor-thin it is. But that's great for if you're the 100th guy in the world. It's great because you only need to improve by a shot in theory. And, you know, you never know how you can do that.

And it's always razor-thin. And us golfers are crazy. We're always looking for new ways to improve and doing crazy stuff. I mean, you look on TV and guys are. put in all different types of ways now and yeah it's uh we get creative about it okay let's play a game for a second you have to create the perfect golfer in your mind and so you take you know specific aspect of the game say driving and then you pick a pro golfer for that let's see the perfect golfer according to neal okay so this is a tough one um so i would go driving the golf

ball i'd probably have to go roy mackroy i mean statistically this year he's the best driver on tour i'm going to pick a long iron game myself i think i'm one of the best out there with the five four three iron in my hand so i i like my like my chances with that with short irons i got to go scottie sheffler though he's just it's ridiculous when you look at the stats he's leading so many different categories uh with his irons um short game It's a little bit of a dark horse pick, but Patrick Cantley, I played at them Saturday at Augusta, and he had some golf shots that I was like just crazy impressed with around the greens. Definitely that. And then putting, for sure, an unknown name, but really should be known, Russell Henley.

He helped me out a lot of Augusta, and he's a guy who hits it shorter, but can really, really roll the rock. So that's going to kind of be the picks. A little couple. I like that. I like that. There's some diversity in there. When you see a guy who's really doing stuff around the greens that you haven't seen before, like what is it that they're able to do?

Some guys have just a couple of different shots that I might not know. Like Patrick hit this one ridiculous shot. We were just over the green on, he was just over the green on 14, and he maybe has to pitch the ball three or four yards onto the green. It'll just kind of roll out another six feet. but, you know, he definitely had the option to putt it, which would have been the percentage play. But he took his 60 degree and just opened it up like a just straight up into the air, took

a swing that kind of went from knee height to knee height, just like cut straight under it, it landed on the green and kind of spun a bit. And right after the round, I went to this short game area and it's like, all right, how in the world did I do this? Because I got to learn that. You immediately went to go practice the shot. He just hit. Yeah, because I saw him hit it twice.

And I was just like, that's just like, it's just like a, really helpful shot in some circumstances and he just he did it like is just no big deal yeah like he had done it all the time yeah you know some guys too with the short game that they you know using different types of spin on the ball get the ball closer use slopes um you really have to be creative about it and really visual i think visualization definitely for all of your game in golf but especially around the greens is really important i had a really interesting conversation with Brad Faxon once about putting, Brad Baxon is obviously considered one of the best putters of all time. And he was saying that like something like 90% of the putt is actually

before you hit it. And often when he's working with a player on putting, they'll spend a ton of time just in everything before the putt. And it was just an interesting thing for me to think about, like how committed are you to the line? Do you even have the right line? Right. like what's your routine right before you hit the hit the ball and for a lot of guys like actually the act of hitting the ball is not the hard part in putting yeah i mean that's that's where i find myself right now too working on how to how am i reading putts um you know you have to like pick the speed you want and then match the line with it and then you know there's a lot different ways to visualize on the greens a lot of guys visualize i want to hit it to a cup that's

not the actual cup might be a foot pass and a foot right or some guys see the ball actually like tracking visualize it tracking into the hole and so there's there's a lot of ways to do it and um you know it's such a personal thing and so many you know a lot of guys have had success doing a lot of other things but i think like anything in sport um especially in a very competitive level you have to be committed to what you're doing and um be you know trust that that you have the process that you need to succeed. Because if you start, it's really easy to start trying five different things in one round. And I know a lot of amateur golfers who, you know, change their grip mid-round or try this thing or that thing every other week.

And, you know, being consistent is really huge, I think, for being successful. Consistent and committed. Yeah. I feel like when I've met the world's best athletes, like that's a recurring theme, they're just like... there's maybe a process by which they're changing something, but once they've changed it, they're committed to it. Yeah. You know, for sure.

And, you know, there's a whole, you know, they don't make changes on a whim either. You know, there's a whole thought process behind it. Yeah, there's either, you know, a lot of times it's either data or stats that are kind of driving their need or want to change. And especially now in 2024, I mean, athletes, every sport has access to crazy amounts of data now. athletes are just getting bigger, faster, and stronger because of that. And that's why I think that is becoming super important to use. And if you're not using it, I feel like you're a step behind everyone else. So you picked yourself as the best long iron player, which I love. Tell me what advice

would you give me if I want to hit a better three iron? Like what's like the best advice for amateurs on dialing in your three, four, five irons? Yeah, I think, um, something that's really important that a lot of amateurs might just have a set of irons that's just they're you know the same set i i think a lot of amateurs should go to maybe a chunk your iron in their five four three iron just gives them a little bit more help getting the ball up in the air a touch more ball speed and you'll kind of see that gaping because i bet you if you went to a lot of amateurs who are five to ten handicaps if you have them hit their four iron and three iron they might only go like seven or eight yards different in the air.

So, you know, changing your clubs up a little bit to help that gaping out would be huge. And, you know, getting more height on the ball is important. I think a lot of ambers should go to hybrids probably in that four iron, three iron range, unless you have a lot of speed. I haven't seen your swing yet. But, you know, if you have a lot of speed, you can play the irons. But a lot of those guys who are slower swings, you know, just give yourself, make the game easy on yourself. You know, I think there's a lot of stigma around golf.

of not wanting to be wimpy and, you know, playing a bunch of hybrids and seven woods. But, you know, the game's hard enough. You know, make it as easy on yourself as possible. Speaking of stigma, what do you think of the tall putter? Oh, gosh. You know, I've actually like one of my teammates had one. I told around with it. You know, it has its cons, pros and cons, really.

You know, I think it's, if you're over a three or four footer, you know, having that belly putter is, you know, it feels hard to miss, I think. but when you're sitting over a 40 foot put, it's really hard to gauge distance and have that type of fuel, especially with like an arm lock too, which is really popular. And that takes a lot of practice and skills. So I think, you know, I put conventionally and, you know, like it because I'm a real fuel putter and, you know, I feel like it helps my distance putting. It sounds like you don't have an issue with putters doing it.

I don't have, I don't have an issue with it because, I mean, golf's really hard regardless. and if it was so much easier, everyone would be doing it. And obviously not a lot of guys on tour. I think there's the only handful of guys on tour really using the long putter. What's next for you in the coming months? Yeah, well, we're going to go next couple of weeks, go to Pugetour Americas, go to Canada, get some reps in up there and have some fun, kind of get back to, you know, just throwing up some points and getting experience.

And then this fall, we're going to try and play a few events on the PGA tour again, see what sponsors exemptions we can get. And the big number for us is 97 FedEx Cup points. If we get 97 more FedEx Cup points, we'll trigger special temporary status. And that would be massive for us. And it would give us the opportunity to earn tour status, not through Q school. So we're hopeful that we can get that done. And that would help you avoid having to go through Q school, which is like the ultimate grind, right?

Yeah, it is, it is a grindy. I'm lucky I'm, I'm through to second stage because of the mid cut at the majors, but still, I mean, getting through second stage and into final stage is no cakewalk. You got to go play really good golf, you know, professional golf is really tough because, you know, like you alluded to earlier, even those guys who are playing mini tours and maybe playing Q school, like, they're great players. Yeah. And, you know, there's a lot of guys without status anywhere that, you know, are just, you know, any given week can play awesome. I mean, you see it all the time. You know, Monday qualifiers go and finish well in PGA tour events or corn fairy events. And, you know, the depth in golf is unbelievable right now.

Especially the guys coming out of college are really prepared to go take on professional golf. And it's, you've kind of kind of seen a new wave of young players. And it's exciting to be part of that. The Q school process, describe that for half a second because that's like, I don't think people realize how insane it is. to try to go through that yeah so if you're if you start out at pre-qualifying you have a three round pre-qualifying where i'm not sure what the numbers but you maybe have to be top 20 out of maybe 150 guys and then you go to first stage and it's four rounds and you have to be again like top 20 out of 150 and then you go to second stage and it's just you know same deal with 150 guys

you got to be in the top 10 or something there and then you go to final stage and you know there's DJ tour cards up for grabs, you know, 30 or so corn fairy cards for full status. And then, you know, the rest of them, it's, you know, some America status. And so even if you make it through pre-qualifying, first stage, second stage, and you don't have a good week at, you know, final stage, you might not have very good status. And, you know, you could be playing great and maybe trip over yourself on second stage and all of a sudden you have nothing. So it's a really cut throat.

process, but it, I think the one thing about it is the one way to think about a golf career is it's really a marathon, not a sprint in one year, you know, one tournament really doesn't define a career. And that's kind of the approach that I've been taking. And, you know, my team's been really trying to press upon me is like, you know, it's not, you know, things don't work out this year. If we don't get those 97 points, it's not the end of the world. Like, I'm a really quality player and at the end of the day, you know, good golf, you know, kind of trumps all. I mean, that process sounds like the kind of process. You could drop like a top 10 player in the world at the beginning.

And they might not get all the way through the process. Yeah, I mean, they have a bad week. Yeah, because it starts in like October, I think, or September. And you have to go all the way to December. So, you know, you have three months of golf and you have to be on your game, throw all three those months. And I don't think there's, there's, man, there's not a lot of guys who have ever gone from pre-qualifying all the way through and gotten their tour card. I mean, there's, I think it's only happened a handful of times. And it's something that's, uh, just, it's just a brutal process.

Did you ever hear the story about the guy who had like a two footer or whatever to get in on Q school? And he hit the put in the dead middle and it hit the inner cup and popped back. I think I saw the video and he slams his hat on the green and so, yeah, I miss, I think he missed it by one and, I mean, that's, that's kind of like nauseating to think about it. I couldn't even imagine that. That would be just so sickening. You hate to see bad breaks like that. It's like at the end of the day, we're all kind of rooting for each other.

You know, the golf community is pretty tight knit and you want to see guys play well. And you know that at some point, you know, you, there's a karma factor. Exactly. At the end of the day, you lose 99% of the terms you pull. unless your name's Tiger Woods, then you only lose 30% of whatever it is. So, you know, kind of sticking together and, you know, that bond of, you know, there's a bond on tour. A lot of guys stick together.

It's a pretty cool community. What are your top three golf courses? Gosh, that's a question I have thought about a lot. it's always a it's always a discussion especially in college you know everyone has their own opinions um i would have to go oakmont and augustin national are my one two um in no particular order i can't really place one above the other i love okmont has a lot of uh that's my first us amder back in 22 um i caddied there um so just a lot of sentimental value there in my hometown but Augusta is Augusta.

And then, you know, for three, I could pick one of five different places. I mean, I love the country club here in Boston. Sure. I love Fryer's Head out of the Long Island. That's a great spot. Yeah, I think that's probably my third pick. But, I mean, there's, I've been fortunate to play a lot of great golf courses. Yeah, that's hard to pick number three, that's for sure.

Well, maybe we'll get out on the country club together at some point. That'd be fun. I'd love to have you over there. I'd be more than happy to come whenever you'd like. Well, Neil, this has been a blast, man. Thanks for coming on. Congratulations on your career so far. I think it's only going to go sore higher.

And thanks for being on WOOP. Yeah, thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Thank you to Neil for joining me on the show today. What an incredible year he has had. And best of luck for the rest of 2024. If you enjoyed this episode of the WOOP podcast, please leave a rating or review. Check us out on social at Woop at Will Ahmed.

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That's a wrap, folks. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green. Thank you.