WHOOP Podcast - How 23-Time Gold Medalist, Michael Phelps, Manages Stress & Mental Health

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

This week, on the WHOOP Podcast, WHOOP Founder & CEO Will Ahmed sits down with 23-time gold medalist, Michael Phelps. Michael opens up about his experience coming up as a swimmer, reflecting on impactful changes that could benefit the sports future successes. Michael shares personal stories from his career, revealing the areas athletes can improve upon in order to break records on the world’s biggest stage. Beyond competition, Will and Michael dive deep into recovery, sleep, and the power of data, assessing how small biometrics guided Michael’s training at the highest level and how WHOOP is changing how athletes understand their bodies. Michael also reflects on breaking world records, the mindset required to chase the “impossible,” and how preparation quiets pressure on the biggest stages.Michael opens up about his ongoing mental health journey, discussing his experience with depression and anxiety. He redefines success beyond medals, the importance of community, and what it means to see himself fully as a human, a father, and a role model, not just an athlete.(00:55) Phelps on His Career In Swimming(04:49) Funding Sports and Athletes To Succeed(08:44) Road to 2028: What To Expect in Swimming(11:52) Who To Watch: The Rise Of The Next Great Record Holders(14:55) Recovery As A Theme For Greatness(18:20) What Mental Success Looks Like (24:35) Physical Modalities To Aid Mental Health(25:45) WHOOP As An Accountability Provider(31:33) Understanding Blood Biomarkers with WHOOP Advanced Labs(36:13) Phelps on Parenting Young Athletes(38:02) Phelps’ Advice For Athletes: Nerves and Preparation(42:54) What’s Next: Mental Health Advocacy & ParenthoodFollow Michael Phelps:InstagramFacebookXSupport the showFollow WHOOP: Sign up for WHOOP Advanced Labs Trial WHOOP for Free www.whoop.com Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

I was in five Olympic Games, 23-time gold medalist. The thing that I loved the most is being able to represent my country. Throughout my career, I remember Thorpe saying publicly that nobody would ever win eight gold medals. And I was like, watch this. I'm gonna prove you wrong, bud, just so you know. I just think there are people out there

that aren't afraid to dream and aren't afraid to literally go after times that are impossible. And with technology in all sports and with preparation, with recovery, we're now able to see records or feats that we never felt we'd see. If you're able to take care of yourself, watch what happens. I'm somebody who deals and

struggles with depression and anxiety. If I can take care of my mental and my physical health the same exact way, then I can become my own superhero. What does it mean to be succeeding mentally? I don't compartmentalize. I don't shove things down. I'm able to talk about the things that I'm struggling with. That's a winner. Michael, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you. I want to talk about team sports and about Team USA and USA Swimming. in general, you've said some things recently about how you'd like to see it go in a different direction. Like, what is, what's going on with USA swimming? I mean, from my standpoint, if I were involved with USA swimming, I would be like on a plane the next day trying to figure out how I get Michael

Phelps involved and make you a big part of this. Yeah, well, it's kind of been crazy over the last, I guess, really 25, 30 years, right? Like, even when I was still in the sport, I don't think. USA swimming did everything that they could have done to help us be our best. And if I'm saying that and I'm feeling that, that's a problem. Yeah. And for me, I feel like I've tried to make some kind of positive change. To be honest, I have felt like they just shut the door on my face and tell me to get lost. Wow.

It's hard. It's really hard because all I want to do is make change for the athletes because that's the most important thing. and they don't treat the athletes as they should. What are some examples of things that you'd want to see them do? If you could wave a magic wand, how would you treat the athletes? I think there needs to be more transparency with absolutely everything. There needs to be more accountability. And again, the athletes need to be put first.

I've never felt like I was put first. I just did things because I was going to do them and nobody was going to get in my way. The lack of leadership that we have going into an L.A. Olympic Games when the last couple Olympics haven't been that. successful worries me. It took us 3702 days to find a new CEO. How is that possible? Name one company or one organization that would wait that long to hire a CEO. I'd like to be a part of the board. I'd like to do whatever I can do to help. But again, every time I've gone to them and said stuff, the old national team director told him I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about.

It's like, come back to me when you know what you're talking about. I don't want my kids to swim. Wow. Yeah. Like for me going through what I went through in 20 plus years in that sport, I would never want them to go through what I went through with USA swimming. What are examples of things that you experienced that you felt like were just not productive? Everything, honestly. Like I have 20-year paper trails of stuff that emails back and forth. I got turned away from a training room to get treatment going into 2008. There were a bunch of therapists just sitting there not doing anything, and they said we're not working right now. So I had to leave and not get treatment. And how is that possible? Like, I can't even imagine, you know, your star Olympic athlete,

not getting treatment whenever the hell you need it. If I'm getting treated like that. Yeah, what's the average Olympic swimmer getting treated, right? Or the average Olympian or any other Olympian for that. Right. Right. Well, I always thought it was insane that, and I don't know, the inner workings of the Olympics at all. But I always thought it was crazy, the sleeping setup. You go your whole career, like, training to be so optimal for a given day. And then they're like, hey, why don't you go sleep on a cardboard mattress? It's like the size of this bed, the size of this table, about as hard as this table. But we had our little egg cartons that we put over top of it. And some of the guys got extenders. So even the guys that were like 6-6, 6-7, 6-8, their feet are still

hanging off the bed. But for us, I mean, like, when we were in the game, games or in the village, you know everybody's going through the same exact thing, right? Like everybody's eating the same food, the same exact accommodations. Nothing is different. So it's a level playing field, right? And it does suck sometimes that, yeah. I guess that at least is level because everyone's kind of doing with it. Correct.

But it does think that we get to that point and you're basically sleeping on a cot. Do you feel like some of this comes back to funding? Like does the body of USA swimming need more money? I don't, I mean. You think it's cultural. Yeah. And leadership. The stipend, I believe, is the same amount that I got 10 years ago.

$1,750 a month. Wow. Top two athletes. Yeah, I mean, that's not going to get you very far. In this day and age, no. You can go to 3K if you want, but if you go to 3K, then this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, has to be done at this from meat. You can only go to this from me, this from meat. I don't know if it's still that way.

Like you can sign up for, I think it's APA where you can get more money, but then USA swimming basically dictates your schedule of what meets you can go to and this and that. Again, like, all I want is change. I hope no one's taking this as me just dogging USA swimming. For me, like honestly, again, I can't say this enough. The athletes need to be treated better. Yeah. Cut and dry. Period.

Yeah. I'm not going to stop until it's solved. Well, I think it's important that your voice is heard. I mean, I know you well. And like even only recently, if I fully understood just your frustration with the sport. And I feel like, you know, Americans at large should know the frustration you have with the sport because that's what's going to, you know, create some change. And if Michael Phelps isn't happy about USA swimming, it's hard to imagine a lot of swimmers are all that happy with USA swimming. And they certainly don't have the platform or the voice that you have.

I'll say like for me, too, like when I retired from the sport, I learned a lot more. Right? Because when I was competing, you're so submerged in everything that you're going through and you're focused on what you're doing. Yeah. So for me, I was I was super shocked the more I just kept trying to find stuff. I have a couple friends that we've been working on trying to make change for a few years now. And the things that we've found, it really is mind blowing. I don't know if we should talk about some of those things right now. You know, I had a conversation with Sarah Hirshland, the USOPC CEO.

I told her about some of the stuff, and I don't know if it was well received or not. But again, I'm not doing this for any other reason than to make change for the athletes. I cannot say that enough. I'm not taking shots of people. I'm not pointing fingers. I just want change because we deserve it. Yeah, of course. And it's such an important part of the Olympics, and it's an important sport, and it's something that there's a lot of history for for American athletes.

The grassroots of swimming are young kids that are just, learning to swim, I mean, the sport is down 8 to 10% in the last eight years. In terms of participation. And what, like, what does it take to increase participation? Do you feel like there needs to be more of a Super Bowl of swimming every year, so to speak, like? I mean, I think, you know, like, we have so many meets throughout the year, whether it's Grand Prix, we have one major meet every single year, summer, Pan Pacific Games, World Championships, and the Olympics kind of rotate in every quad. I don't know. I mean, I think,

think we have a lot of talent. You know, the American team has always been really, really dominant. It's kind of crazy to see how the rest of the world is caught up, right? We used to be dominant for decades and the rest of the world is caught up, right? It was usually USA, Australia, on every single podium. Now you have countries from all over the world that are listening to their national anthem. Yeah. So I think, you know, a lot of them obviously train here in the U.S. with our college coaches, but they have the opportunity to do that. And I think it's really very very, very important. For me, like I loved being able to swim against my competitors, especially training. You know, like if I'm able to learn from what they're doing and put it to what I'm doing,

I'm only going to grow and get faster and faster, right? So I don't know, yeah. I think a lot has to change, and I hope we can get things right between now and L.A. Because we're running out of time. Well, yeah, it's going to take a lot to get things right by then. It's not that far away. I mean, let me ask you this. The Olympians that are going to be successful in L.A.,

Are they all pretty much known at this point? I mean, obviously, 2008 sounds like it's far away. But I also know the amount of work, you know, it's years of work to be on that stage. Is it safe to say you already know 95% of who that U.S. team is? I mean, you can probably... 90%, 80%. You're going to have some new, fresh faces, new names pop out and do some unbelievable times in the next couple years. Okay.

And they're going to have an opportunity to make that team, right? Like, for me, going back to my first Olympic team, like a year before the games, I think I got fifth or sixth at nationals. This is when you were like 15, yeah. And then at Olympic trials, I go kind of under the radar. Nobody really knows who I am. And I get second. I was seventh with a 50 to go and get second.

So you're going to have people like that that come up and, I guess, make a name for themselves. And at this stage, you were 15-year-old Michael Phelps going to the 2028 Olympics, so to speak, no one would have known who you are today? Yeah. So it's still possible that there's some great people. Correct.

Okay. So maybe from that standpoint, the optimistic thing to say is change can be made in time to influence the outcome of L.A. I hope so. Yeah. But things need to start changing. Yesterday. I mean, I could probably go through and tell you what times are probably going to win some

of these races or who's going to win some of these races, right? like especially over the next two years because you're going to have seeing what people go at Pan Pacific games and Commonwealth games and then World Championship. By that point, the year before the games, you kind of already know where everybody stands and what times they're able and capable of doing in that next year. So it's like when you have people, you know, look, you have Leon Marchant who's unbelievable. All right. Leon swims a Bob. I swam with Leon's dad back in the day. And Leon can swim a fairly large program because he can swim multiple races, multiple events. Then you're going to have Summer Macintosh. It's the same thing. Canadian Summer that swims with Bob as well.

She's going to swim a handful of races, individual races. You have a ton, a ton of female, unbelievable female swimmers from Australia. Like, their team is stacked. Stacked. Yeah. It's going to be anybody's game, but obviously, whoever's going to win that gold medal is going to be the most prepared person there. That's just how it works.

Yeah. No matter if you're the most talented or not, whoever did the most work to get to that point is going to get the results they deserve. It sounds like it's more wide open than 10 years ago. It might have been, yeah. I mean, people, I heard some, some current swimmers say that it was easier to compete against the rest of the world when I was swimming. I don't really agree with that, but, I mean, I was swimming against some of the greatest

swimmers on the planet. Ian Thorpe, Grant Hackett, Peter Venn and Hogan Bond. Totally. Michael Klim. Yeah. Some of the best, Ian Crocker, Tom Mouchal, Tom Dolan. some of the greatest swimmer's in the history of the sport. So your point is it's not necessarily that all these other countries have gotten a lot better,

but there's a sign that maybe the U.S. is fading. I wouldn't say that. I honestly think it's people aren't afraid to dream. You know, when I see somebody like Leon who to go 402 and break my world record, he broke my last standing world record a few times, how he did it, I believe he could probably break four minutes.

Wow. Just the talent level is, the talent level on the high end is unbelievable. Again, Leon swims four or five races, three to five races, and he's going to win every one of those. Wow. So I think it's kids from all over the globe that aren't afraid to reach as high as they possibly can. The sky is the limit, and that's what they're going for.

Totally. The world record thing, it fascinates me because, like you just said, he broke your last world record. I think if you were to pull a lot of people like, you know, general swim fans or whatever, they'd be like, how many world records does Michael Phelps had? You know, they'd probably guess like five, seven, you know? So there's something fascinating about how these times over time fall. Like, what is that? Is it just always, is it always having that number to reach for and people keep reaching? Like, I mean, I always look back on that story about Roger Bannister, who broke the four minute mile. Yep. Yep.

And then, you know, within like six months after that, like everyone broke the four minute mile after no one thought it was possible. Like that's like I think that was from my point before was like, yeah, I think throughout my career, I was able to do times that people didn't believe I was going, right? Like, I mean, people said I was a cheater my whole life and I took drugs and this, that, and the other. Like I'm one of the most tested athletes on the planet. Totally.

All of my results are. Totally. You can go online and look. I think that's what I was saying. Like people aren't afraid. go after times or feats that others think are impossible or not possible, right? So like throughout my career, I remember Thorpe saying publicly that nobody would ever win eight gold medals.

And I was like, watch this. I'm going to prove you wrong, bud, just so you know. And then he said, no one over the age of 30 will win an individual gold medal. Him saying that, like, I gave him a hard time afterwards. And he was like, but I know how you work. I know how your mentality is. And I know when you hear something like that, it's going to fire you up to go do it. I just think there are people out there that aren't afraid to dream and aren't afraid to

literally go after times. Like I said, that are impossible. Like if Leon was to break four minutes in the 4.m., nobody in the planet is thinking about doing that, probably but him. Right. Like to be able to, it's almost a numbers game, right? You kind of have to slice up the 4.m. And to be able to break 4 minutes and he has the 4 strokes and the breaststroke and the underwater and easy butterfly and with technology in all sports and with preparation, with recovery, with whatever it might be, I think we're now able to see records or feats that we never thought we'd see. I mean, recovery has to be a big theme. It does make sense.

I mean, recovery has to be a big theme. I'm thinking of things that are true today that may have been less true 15 years ago in the sport, you know, or in any sport for that matter, that are pushing athletes. further and further and further. I think technology is one. I think emphasis on recovery is another, sleeps and other. But it's just the data, right? Like, I feel like it's the data that we're getting that, you know, like I was talking earlier for me, like when I'm sleeping and when I was swimming, it was 20% REM, 20% deep. If I get both of those numbers in a night, it's full on go tomorrow. Like, it's full throttle, full send. I'm ready to just get crushed. And so just to do that math for people,

if you're getting 40% of your time in restorative sleep, which is REM and slow wave, and you probably would spend, what, eight, nine hours in bed then? Yeah, back then, yeah. So then you're getting, you know, four and a half hours of restorative sleep. For anyone who's gotten four and a half hours of restorative sleep, like, you feel amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah.

So, that was our benchmark every single day. Yeah. And now it's like, you, again, you look at the recovery tools, right? Like, yeah, I was doing an ice tub. we were going and getting 50 bags of ice and putting it into a tub in our it's before the cottage industry yeah yeah so um but like grassden cupping is taken off right like guasha like all of these different techniques and all of this all of the data and how much it actually is effective right and people were just like okay i'm in right like the craze right now about saunas and cold tubs i'm like oh my gosh

I've been doing it for 20 years. Totally. You know, like, but I love it because people are now more interested in getting the most out of their body and their mind that they can to be able to be the best version of them. And I think the only reason we're able to do that is because of these biometrics and these little small data points that we're finding and we're using. Well, in many ways, you described the thread that Woop has tried to pull over the last 10 years, which is to start with pro athletes and take the learnings from pro athletes. and the data that pro athletes are using, and then bring that to the mass market and to have people understand what they can do to feel better in their life. And that doesn't mean they're going to win a gold medal, but it can mean that, you know, they're getting 40% of restorative sleep

and all of a sudden feel amazing in their job. That's the thing, right? Like, if you're able to take care of yourself, watch what happens. Yeah. Right. Like, for me, I'm always talking about now, like if I can take care of my mental and my physical health the same exact way, then I can become my own superhero. Like my kids call me Aquaman. So like, you know, like I always talk about that because I think it is so important to pay attention to both. Again,

to be the best version of you, your authentic self. What's up, folks, if you are enjoying this podcast or if you care about health, performance, fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop.

That's right. You can check out whoop at woop. It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain, and you can now sign up for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just at whoop.com. Back to the guests. What does it mean to be succeeding mentally?

For me, like, when I talk about mental health, for me, I'm somebody who deals and struggles with depression and anxiety. And there are days where I don't want to get up, right? So there are days I just want to curl up into a ball and have nobody around me. And sometimes those days, the room feels like it's shrinking over top of me. But on those days, it's how can I get that 10%, 20%, 50% out of the day instead of doing a zero, right? Like for me, a zero is I'm taking five steps back. Right. For me, it's so important in those moments to almost be able to turn that channel.

Your head is a TV. How can I redirect what I'm doing? Right? So for me, it's always getting in that cold tub because you have to be aware, present in that exact moment. I like learning more about myself to give myself a better chance because I know what my kids potentially are going to go through and I want to be able to help them in any way that I can. I used to hate and was very uncomfortable when I would talk about my own journey with mental health. But it's who I am. During my career, I would look in the mirror and I would see somebody with a pair of goggles. and a swim cap on. Not somebody with a beard and a man bun and gray hair.

You know, like, I didn't see somebody with feelings and emotions. You didn't see the human side of you. No. You saw the killer athlete. Yep. The guy that went out and won a couple gold medals and broke some world records. I never saw myself as a human, though. So, like, for me, now I like who I am.

Like, I laugh at my little grays that are coming through. So, like, every little day that I don't compartmental. I don't shove things down. I'm able to talk about the things that I'm struggling with. That's a win. You know, like for me, I've built a couple groups that, you know, men's groups that we have. Recent article just came out, it's me, Jay Glazer, Andrew Whitworth, Mark Kerr, and Dwayne Johnson.

And we're on a group chat. And it's just the banter, the camarader, the camarader. But it's also the support. Yeah. You know, because we've all gone through amazing. walks in life and been super successful, but we still struggle with depression, anxiety, or some other mental illness. So for me, it's been super important to be able to have those guys, that no matter what, no matter what time it is, I can literally send a text. They pick up the phone

and call. The more you shove things down and compartmentalize, the more you're probably going to blow up like a volcano. I mean, for me, it's always, it's okay not to be okay, right? But as long as we're learning about what we're going through. So my journey through this mental health world is never, never over. But I think to be winning at mental health, it's taking care of yourself. And it sounds like also, you know, seeing your whole self. I think that's what's so powerful about what you just shared is I think a lot of people look in the mirror and they see themselves and they're like upset that they don't see an Olympian or they don't see someone who's got a, you know, a medal or a trophy or this title or that title, CEO, whatever. But, you know,

for you actually finding peace also means seeing your whole self and actually not seeing that side of things. You know, you talked about seeing your beard. And so I think there's a lot for people to take from that. Like if they can actually look in the mirror and see their whole selves, that is finding peace. And to balance that with the chase of whatever it is that they want to do in life, right? That is the hard part I find personally is the balance of being grateful for where you are in the moment with the drive to do more and to achieve more and to chase more. And I think grateful is the right word because that's actually what pulls me to be the most present I find is when I'm appreciating, okay, I'm here right now.

Like I'm in this room. I'm with you. We're talking about life. Like that keeps me centered, I find. I think gratitude is like the best balance with drive. Because if you just live on that dopamine cycle, And I see it a lot in my world, which is like very successful entrepreneurs and CEOs and people who are like, okay, well, I'm going to be happy when we're worth a hundred million or worth a billion or worth $10 billion or with $100 million. And that goalpost actually never stops.

Like, it really doesn't stop. And they're on this dopamine cycle of trying to get to the next thing. And they inevitably burn out. And they use up all their dopamine thinking they're going to be happy when they get there and they're never happy. And so you have to find some way, like you have to find checkpoints I find. For me, like a daily gratitude practice has helped. Even prayer has helped. Like I've gotten, I think, more spiritual as I've gotten more successful or gotten to be around successful people.

I'm with you. Like I never grew up being super religious, but there is a higher power. Yeah. I don't know who it is. Yeah. I don't know what his name is, her name is, but there's somebody greater than me that put me here to do something great. that's what we just have to try to do, right? And I think what popped in my head when you were just talking was living in the moment, like the presence. Like if like for me, the power of now

Eckhart Tollier literally I've read it 10 times. That's the book with the crazy cover, right? Yep. Yeah. It's so like for me, it's a good book. I loved it because you can future trip or you can live in the past or you can live in the present. What's right here and now? What can I, what can I control right here and now, right? Control the controllables is something I've lived by for a long time. good friend of mine, dear friend of mine, Greg Harden, I spent tons of time with him at Michigan, and that's one thing that he taught me, and I think it's so important. Because if you focus on controlling the controllables, watch what happened. It's that simple. Well, that's also a good way to remove anxiety, I think, too. If something's out of your control

and you're worrying about it, well, that's not going to do you a lot of good. Correct. But if something's in your control, then maybe you should worry about it and you should focus on it, right? Yes, yes, yes. And there is something about I think action can change emotion, right? Like just doing the thing can change your state. That's one of my favorite quotes is action speak a lot of the words. Yeah. Right?

Like, you just have to do that. You have to hold yourself accountable. When you're in one of those days where you feel like the room shrinking and you don't want to get out of bed, like you mentioned the cold plunging. What are other little things that you find get you through the day or get you out of that state? Talking about what I'm going through. No matter how uncomfortable it is. And that can be with my wife, with one of my therapists. It can be with one of my friends.

It doesn't matter. Like just getting it out or working out. Working out is something that is incredible for me. Like if I'm pissed off, I can just go into the weight room and just throw weights around. And I feel so much better afterwards. It's like the Betty White commercial with the Snickers. You're just hungry. Yeah.

It's just like it's one of those things. And it's just like you, like for me, like once. I get through that, I'm like, oh my gosh, okay, I'm good. Journaling is something that I spend a lot of time doing, and I write down everything. Like the positive stuff I'm going through, the negative thoughts that I have going through. Because I like looking back and just seeing kind of where I was in life and seeing what I was going through, because I feel like you never stop learning if you're doing that. For me, like, I always want to learn more about who I am and why I work, how I work.

Well, that's a healthy mindset. You know, one thing that we're working on a whoop is this whole idea of the system, memory. And so in the app, you can now interact directly with whoop. Going forward, it'll remember everything that you tell it that'll in turn enable whoop to give you better coaching. Oh my gosh. So let's just pretend for a second that your journal entries were in this Woop knowledge base. Like, again, just for you. It personalized entirely to you. It might help you identify, hey, when you go to bed at this time and you have this thing and you've journaled this thing, well, those, it's like that trifecta is the trigger or, you know, for you to feel bad,

for you to feel good or whatever. And I get really excited about bringing all of this information under one roof. We internally call it a health operating system to then be able to coach and advise and, you know, be this doctor or health coach to you. Everything that y'all do, every little snood detail that you guys come out with is, it's insane. You know, like me talking about all these stats from when I was training and now it's like every single day I'm looking at it just to know can I can I full send today do I need to take a step back like and and to your point right like what you just said about going to sleep at a certain time or having this and not doing this or doing this but not doing this and being able to just make sense of it that's literally like that's what I did throughout my career right like if

I go to bed at this time and I have this to snack on before I go to sleep I know I'm going to get that 40%. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like, or is going out until 2 o'clock, really, 2am, really healthy and really smart for you if you're trying to do this? You know what I'm saying? Like I do love that. And it's like it's fascinating to me, whoops able to have this accessible for everybody, 2012, right? Like crazy. Yeah, it's come a long way since then. Right? Like, yeah. So it's, it's pretty incredible to see the excitement level for it. Yeah. People are pumped to learn more about themselves and want to grow. The changes that we've seen over the last 20 years, like, I'm excited to see where the world

takes us now. Yeah, it's a very exciting time to build this company. And we launched this feature recently, the HealthSpin feature, which tells you your WooPage. And that's one where I've seen a lot of people, like, really latch on from a behavior change, even if it's not telling them what they like initially. Oh, 100%. Oh, shit, I'm five and a half years older, and my sleep consistency sucks. and I don't actually exercise as much as I thought.

And I do have zero hours of strength training a week. Like, okay, I now know what I have to do. And so there's an element of, I just feel like longevity has become this thing in the cultural zeit guys, which is suddenly so popular. Correct. And it's funny even talking to people who are in their 50s, 60s, and 70s who are, you know, by a lot of metrics are very successful. And their, like, a whole new thing amongst their friend groups is actually about

health. It's like, who can be the healthiest. Correct. Right. It's not about who's got the best plane or the biggest mansion anymore. It's like who's like the healthiest. And I love that. I go back and forth with friends and the whoop age.

I have a couple friends that are like four years younger than me. Yet every single day my HRV is higher. My sleep is better. Yeah, right. But it's, but it is like I'm a competitive human, right? So it's just like that banter back and forth. You know, like my wife is two years younger than me. You know, so it's like, she's like, ha, ha, ha.

But just like, I think that aspect is really fun, which is cool. Are there any aspects of whoop that you feel like you're still working on? I mean, obviously, when you were an Olympian, there was a lot you were working on. Today, what kind of, what does winning look like? I mean, for me, obviously, sleep is something that I believe people overlook. Yeah. I don't think we sleep enough as humans. You know, for me, like we said, I was sleeping, you know, eight to ten hours a night when I was training, plus taking a nap.

Wow. You know, like, I'm lucky to get seven to eight now, seven, seven and a half. And if I'm able to do that, then, okay, was my sleep good? Like, right? Like, I go back and still look at that 20%, 20%, 20%. Am I still close to that? But I think for me, like you said, like longevity, like I want to be as healthy as I can. I want to take care of my body the best way I can, just like I did for the last 25 years of my life, because it's what I know. It's the only thing that I've done. Honestly, like for me, I want to put one of these on one of my kids. What is, to be honest, to be honest, what is the age limit? Yeah. So right now, technically speaking, it's 13. 13. Now, some of that is due to rules around the age of which you can be monitoring a youngster. Woop will only enable it if you're 13 or older. What's the oldest member? Do you know that? This is a good question. I should probably know that. Yeah, I can always guarantee you we have a 90 year old or a 100 year old. I mean, that's just the, when you have that many people on something, you get a wide spectrum. people who are like 15 years younger, 18 years younger. Now, those tend to be people who are much older. Yeah. Because if you're 60 or 70, being 20% younger, all of a sudden is now like, you know, 12, 14 years,

whatever, right? Whereas if you're, you know, 40 years old, okay, 20% is like eight years, right? So it's like, it's a little easier as you get older to have a bigger spectrum of whoop age. But it's been cool just to see how motivating people find it. It's also one of those things where Woop for the first time has really told people, this is good, this is bad. Because when you go to that health span page, it's showing you, okay, your lack of strength training is adding two years to your life or, you know, so on and so forth. Yeah. Again, like that's, those little small baby steps are helping people have a chance, right? Totally. And like, again, that's all we want. We want a chance to be great. So thank you guys for doing what you all do.

You guys are changing so many lives, man. Thank you, brother. So we're about to launch right now Woop Advanced Labs, which is going to allow people to integrate their blood work into WOOP. And this works in two ways. One is any past blood tests that anyone's done, they can now just upload. And whatever membership tier you're on doesn't matter. That's included in your Woop experience. So you're going to be able to see your Woop data alongside all of your blood work. And then the coaching experience that you and I talked about with the AI, it's going to be able to understand all of that in context. So I, for example, told Whoop all of my supplements, like everything I take, and I uploaded my past blood tests, and obviously I've been on Whoop forever. And so the combination of those three things led Whoop to making better recommendations for my supplements, which is pretty cool. Huh. You know, like immediately, I'm like, oh, I should take less of this actually because it's making this other thing go up. Correct. And so anyway, that's the ability to upload all your past tests and make your data experience much rich.

The second thing we're doing is you can now actually do blood tests through whoop. So you're going to be able to go to over 2,000 locations across the United States through Quest. And you'll do a blood test. And then within days, you're going to see your results in the whoop happen. Oh my gosh. Okay. Let's go. Yeah.

So it's going to be pretty good. What have, I mean, you obviously performed at the highest level. Were there times where you learned things from blood work that you felt like influenced some of your diet or your training or anything? I think for us, I mean, we did blood panels three to four times a year. Okay, so pretty often. Yeah, but honestly, the biggest thing was just to, like, when we're going to altitude, making sure our levels are where they need to be, right? So we're not, we don't become iron deficient or this or that while we're up there

trying to build in a training environment. So I think for me, yeah, it's like white blood cell, red blood cell. What do we used to look at? I would guess testosterone levels. Keene dog, yeah, keen dog. testosterone levels, cortisol levels. Yeah, cortisol for sure. But like you're always in, you have to be in certain windows.

So like for me, throughout my career, my blood work was pretty good. Pretty dialed. Yeah. Like there weren't many things that we really had to change. Like I think the only supplements I really took, like it was vitamin D, iron. And there was one other. Salt tablets. Oh, that makes sense.

The salt tablets for me to retain. Stain water. Yeah. I, as a kid growing up, they thought I had Marfan syndrome. Oh, wow. So I got a bunch of EKGs done at Hopkins, all these different tests, yada, yada, yada. They basically just said there was a deficiency of salt. So for me, I literally had to take two or three salt tablets a day.

And that was it. My heart, like a regular heartbeat stopped. But it would happen in training. I literally would be going full blast and I would feel like I couldn't take a stroke and I could almost barely breathe so I had to literally just stop on the wall 30 seconds

deep breaths and it went away Did it feel like Oh wow, I'm out of breath Because my fitness isn't where it is It's like it felt like something different Literally it felt like my heart was going to pop out of my chest Wow So yeah the salt tablets

That was it and then just ate, right? I got everything from food. You know, I was eating 8 to 10,000 calories back then, so it was anything and everything as much as I could, whatever, whatever. Have you fallen in love with food again? Or does it still feel like a chore? It's still a chore. I eat what I need to. That's hard. It is. It stinks. If you have to eat 8 to 10,000 calories a day, food all of a sudden is like a chore. Yeah. Like, I mean, I was pretty much force-speeding myself most of the time, because I would fluctuate between 5 and 10 pounds in a week, and that's not water weight, right?

So for me, I needed to stay at about 195,200. Like, that was my fighting weight. And if I'm losing weight, then I'm losing muscle. So I can't do that. Yeah, so it was literally whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. Yeah, you just eat as much as you could. Keen Dogg, well, my trainer, he's like, eat a Power Bar, eat a Power Bar. Peter Robinson, for people wondering.

Yeah, Keenan Robinson. He has worked with me. I've worked with him for 25 years. Keen dog's awesome. Well, shout out Keenan. because he was one of the first trainers who we sent a whoop to, and he liked it, and then he got you on it. Yep, yep.

And Eric Vent, I remember back then. But anyway, yeah, you've been on whoop for as long as anyone. Yeah. I appreciate it. It helps me. Helps me be me. How do you manage parenthood in all of this? You know, and you mentioned before, like, you don't want your kids to swim.

That feels like a big decision, you know, as someone who so much of your, life and even your identity publicly is defined as being a swimmer. I mean, they'll know how to swim. Yeah, I can imagine they can work a pool and the ocean just fine. I'm not worried about the Phelps name in water. No, they're not going to swim unless they want to. You know, like for me, like if they, like Beckett asked recently, he's like, maybe I want to try swimming.

And I was like, okay, we'll find a coach. Like, I will find the coach that I get a good coach. Yeah, I'll find the one that I can trust and one that I know will teach him what he wants. help him if he wants. It feels like though you don't want to be the guy in the pool, you know, calling out times. No. Mm-mm. And I would never, I don't want to coach my kid.

Yeah. No, that would be a bad idea. But be honestly, like being a dad for me is it's one of the greatest things in the world. You know, I've, like I said, I've four boys, nine, seven, six, and 18 months. But I think for me, I think the craziest thing I've noticed and you start seeing more and more once they kind of get their own personality. is how each every one of them are so different. Yeah.

It came from the same two people, and they're completely different. You know, like boom, boomer, Beckett, Maverick, and Nico, like they're literally night and day different. They look different. They talk differently. I don't know. It's just, it's fun watching them grow. It's fun watching them compete.

And it's fun kind of getting to teach them certain things that I've learned throughout my journey 40 years on this planet. Hopefully I can give them a couple tricks if they want to compete in certain ways. You know, boomer's a big old soccer player. And we got basketball. Mavie just started baseball and he is, he's loving it. Absolutely loving it. Okay. What's your tip to a 10 year old who comes up to you?

It's like, you know, I'm so nervous. Like, what do I do? Honestly, the biggest thing I think nerves, nervousness comes from excitement. Yeah. Right? Like, you know, for me, people ask, were you ever nervous during your career? I mean, no. I mean, I was nervous in 15 because I was in Sydney because I'd never been to the Olympics before.

But like other than that, I feel like every single time that I went to the block, I was prepared. I wasn't nervous, you know, because I did the work that I knew I needed to do that nobody else was doing to give me that chance, right? The thing I always repeat in my head is if you're nervous be prepared. Yeah. And I think there's a lot to that. If you're not prepared, yeah, naturally you're going to spin, right? Your head will just go in circles. And like for me, like preparation is absolutely everything, right?

Again, I'm winning races by a hundredth of a second. Yeah, that's great. Right, the slimest margin of victory. So, you know, if I'm not prepared and somebody else is, then they're going to get what I want. So I'm going to over-prepared myself. And that's why I went six years without missing a day, because no one else ever did it. Now, you've probably met athletes who have actually prepared, who done all the work. But there's like, whatever you want to call it, some kind of stage.

fright. What's the lesson to that person? What's the coaching to that person? Find a way to calm yourself. And it's easier said than done. But like for me, that's why I always had my music. For me, like, I was the only person around there. You could try and talk to me, but my music is so loud, I'm not hearing anything. That kind of just helped me get into your own little world. Yeah. And whatever song it was, it was, it was the words that I heard or the beat that I heard that literally just calmed me. You know, like hip-hop is hip-rap, basically everything I listened to throughout my career. Yeah, I was just always, always super relaxed. But I mean, I think you can go back and prepare more.

Like, if you still are nervous, then prepare more. You can never be too prepared. Never be too prepared. Like, my coach literally prepared me for absolutely anything. Whether my goggles fill up with water, my suit rips, my cap rips, however, whatever else happens, how am I going to handle that emotionally? Right. Because if it affects me emotionally, then it takes away from my performance.

So he kind of basically put me through a little test. throughout my career to make sure I was ready for anything that came my way. And you did win a gold medal with Walker in your... So I'm 175 meters dead blind. Yeah, that's pretty amazing. Could not see. I interviewed Alex Honnold, who famously scaled Old Capitan, right? World famous rock climber without a rope.

And he talked to me about in great detail how his preparation actually involved not just visualizing all of the steps to climbing, but actually all the ways that he would fall or how things would go wrong or all of a sudden it starts raining or a bird hits him. I did a ton of that too. It's impressive.

I'll share two different stories. So one, Bob would teach me play tapes. Put a video in the cassette player and play a race in your mind. How I wanted it to go, how I didn't want it to go, and how it could go. Because when I got there, you just,

you're calm, right? Your emotions aren't getting flustered and all thrown out of whack because you're already prepared for you've seen it and then how about this going into 2008 I kept seeing a dream and the dream I kept seeing the time of 307 and I'd come into practice and I'd be like Bob I saw that 307 dream again last night I don't know what this is there's no 300 meters like what is this after 2008 we figured out that it was my 300 split of my 400 I am through the first three legs fly back and breast that was my time 307 oh wow so I literally was seeing that and living it, and I go to Beijing in the very first race,

former I am, win the gold medal, break the world record, and I'm out in 307. Isn't that fascinating? That race for me... Because there's some subconscious going on there, right? Because you didn't even know what 307 was. Yeah, no clue. I was like, what the hell is this? And then bang.

For me, like, the foreign I am was one of my babies. 1 in 04, 1 in 08, doo-do and 12, my own fault. But yeah, like, for me, like that, race was Ryan and I going toe to toe pretty much all the time. Ryan Lockty and I going toe to toe. And I mean, if I didn't have him to push me, I don't know if I would have gone three over, four oh three by myself. Right. Like he, he pushed me to push as hard as I possibly can and go beyond my own limits at times. But I think, you know, that was, that was one of the things that I was really thankful for is I had somebody that loved to sport so much, loved to compete

so much and we just became homies and raced for 15, 20 years together. Amazing, man. What's next for you over the next few months or what's on the horizon? Coaching a little bit of soccer, right? I got Boomer and Beckett are both on the soccer team, getting Mav through baseball. He, again, loving it, love sports. Are you someone who, like, yell at the refs or your pretty background noise? Uh, yeah. I sometimes get a little spicy. Um, no, honestly, it's like I, I want the refs to teach the kids the game, right? Like, especially in soccer when somebody's getting kicked or tripped or punched or bladed. Like, I just, it's crazy. Like, like, Boomer gets, boomer gets targeted so much. Because of his last name? I don't know if it's his last name. Like, he, boomer's a nasty soccer player.

Oh, he's a good soccer player. I'm obviously biased towards my own son, but like, he's really good. Like, in Cabo, when we were down there for a couple weeks, he literally is practicing five days a week for an hour and a half by himself with a coach. Like, he is, full. fully invested, told me he wants to be the next messy, he's going to score more goals than messy. So for me, I'm like, all right, this is sick. Honestly, it's doing more of that stuff. It's being a dad. You know, I have a ton of travel for work and stuff, you know, still continuing to try to

take that band-aid off and get the people to help they need when they're struggling with mental health, right? Like, I know there could be somebody listening to today that is struggling. And if you are, I want you to know you're not alone, and it's okay not to be okay. But to get those people to helping care they need is something that's a big, big mission for me. The suicide rate keeps climbing and it breaks my heart. I've looked at suicide in the eye and I'm very, very thankful I'm here today to be able to share what I've learned and my stories and what I've gone through. I want to make a difference and I want to make an impact in the world.

You know, I believe that what I did in the pool is just, it's a start. 23-time gold medalist. That's not who I am. I'm a human. And I want to leave the world a better place than when I first came on it and whatever I can. do to change to help. I want to. Yeah, getting out of the holidays will be fun. Dialing your golf game a little bit. A hundred percent. We need to get ready for waste management and a couple of member guests we have coming up, but I can't let you, can't let you get me like you got me last time.

I got you pretty good, actually. I know. You put a beat down on me. Well, I appreciate so much, man, what you stand for and our partnership together. And it's really just been a pleasure. Thank you, really. So thank you for everything you do. And until the next time. I love it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. If you enjoyed this episode of the Woop podcast, please leave a rating or review.

Check us out on social at Woop at Will Ahmed. If you have a question to what's answered on the podcast. Email us, podcast at Woop.com. Call us 508-4434349.52. If you think about joining Woop, you can visit Woop.com. Sign up for a free 30-day trial membership. New members can use the code Will, W-I-L-L, to get a $60 credit on W-W-A-cestries when you enter the code at checkup.

That's a wrap, folks. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the Woof podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green.