WHOOP Podcast - How to Build Deeper Intimacy and Love Better with Dr. Laura Berman

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

This week on the second installment of our How To Series, Kristen Holmes, WHOOP Global Head of Human Performance, Principal Scientist sits down with Dr. Laura Berman. Dr. Laura Berman is a sex, love, and relationship therapist with double Master’s degrees and a PhD from NYU. In her 30 years of practice, Laura has been on a mission to help people improve relationships and sex lives. Her perspective on therapy is one that focuses on mind-body connection as well as a spiritual perspective. Dr. Laura Berman is a columnist for USA Today, New York Times best-selling author, having written 9 books. She was a resident relationship expert on and has had multiple television shows on Oprah Winfrey's network, OWN. Dr. Laura Berman received her undergraduate degree from the University of Vermont, Master’s degree in clinical social work from NYU, and doctorate in health education with a specialty in human sexuality from NYU. She also completed a training fellowship in sexual therapy at NYU Medical Center Department of Psychiatry.On today’s episode, Kristen and Dr. Laura Berman discuss the three layers of intimacy (00:33), cracking the code on identifying your authentic self (03:53), the important obstacles to overcome to have better sex (08:13), Emotional avoidance in atheltes (09:57), understanding self-worth versus self-esteem (12:38), how to remove shame from sex (12:38), how grief can have an effect on intimacy (16:28), and breaking down spiritual barriers to help your sex life (16:28). Dr. Laura Berman presents the importance of maintaining integrity in your energy (37:58), how to overcome your traumas and triggers to unlock this energy (47:56), how HRV and energy frequency are related (52:39), and how dating has changed in the digital age (54:43). Kristen and Dr. Laura Berman close out the episode with highlighting the 3 foundations to build a solid sex life (1:05:02) and Dr. Berman’s tools to help emotional intimacy (1:07:21).Resources:Dr. Laura Berman - InstagramDr. Laura Berman - XDr. Laura Berman - WebsiteDr. Laura Berman - Language of Love PodcastSupport the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

We were talking about the energetic frequencies your body can hold. Sexual pleasure and in particular orgasm is literally the highest frequency the body can hold. So when you put an intention underneath that and hold that intention, it kind of supercharges it into the quantum field, which is really the science behind the law of attraction or all of those things. So it does. It changes the way your energetic frequency and then thus how people respond to you and train to you. But it also changes how you move in the world. Dr. Laura Berman, welcome. Thank you.

It's good to be here. It's so good to have the opportunity to talk to you. We're going to talk about sex. Amen, one of my favorite topics. Let's go. You have recently finished a book called Sex Magic. It's pre-order right now, and it's being released in July. So we're going to talk about a lot of the topics therein, which I'm excited about.

I thought we could start by just defining emotional intimacy. And, you know, I think, when I think about whoop, you know, we kind of have a foundation, right? We acknowledge that in order to, you know, kind of show up in the world, you need to think about your sleep. You need to think about the load that you're putting on your body, mentally, physically, and emotionally, and balancing that with appropriate levels of recovery. And we see that, you know, if we're not tending to those things in a conscious way, it's hard to kind of show up in other parts of our life. And there's this recognition that, you know, there's a really important interplay between our physiology and our psychology. So if we agree at a foundational level that, you know, sleep recovery and strain are kind of like the foundations on the

physiological side, what would you say are kind of the tenants on the psychological side that we need to just be grounded in in order to come into the world in a more intimate, emotionally safe way? Well, I think those three and just being physically fit and well rested is a big part of intimacy because if you aren't, first of all, just with the body image issues and if you aren't feeling good about yourself and your body, that deeply impacts how you're going to show up in love and intimacy. But they're all, I mean, you know this better than I. There's so many studies out there that show even regardless of how your body officially looks, just exercising improves the way you feel about it. So from that standpoint, you know, just as a segue between whoop and make and whoop, it's they're related, you know. But for me, it's about really kind of knowing yourself, your body, what you want, what you like, what feels good, being able to articulate that in a sexual scenario. and, you know, intimacy is a really, it's one of my favorite words because if I'm talking to a group of men and women, let's say, and I say the word intimacy, the men will immediately think of the physical act of sex. That's what they think of as intimacy. That word means intimacy equates the physical act. The women in the room will typically think, yes, sex may be part of that definition. but when they hear the word intimacy, they think of emotional closeness and connection. And to me,

it's both. You know, it's both of those things. And to have that, you not only have to commit to showing up in your full uniqueness and expressing that physically, but also self-revelation. You know, to me, that's one of the biggest barriers to emotional and physical intimacy is the willingness to be vulnerable, to show up as your authentic self, and to let that be seen and heard and felt by someone else. How do we crack the code around the authentic self? You know, it sounds so aspirational, right? Like, how do we actually get there?

It's bravery. It's courageousness and bravery in taking the first step because we're taught from the time we're really young. Most of us did not grow up in, you know, 100% accepting environments, right? And we are taught, if not by our families of origin, which is usually where we learn it, by school, by society. society to fit a mold. And, you know, we could go on for hours about what that mold is, right? But to fit a certain thing, to show up a certain way in order to be accepted. And there's

evolutionary reasons. That's our evolutionary imperative. I mean, from the beginning of cave person times, we needed to fit into the group to survive. So that's in our DNA. And it's a natural instinct. But it causes us, you know, and then you add in the social media and the perfection that we see everywhere and everyone not showing up as their authentic selves online and in the world around us, that there's so much pressure not to be. So it really is a radical, courageous act to show up as your authentic self. And what I find, and I work with people around this all the time, is that as you do, it's scary because you feel like you're not going to be accepted. People aren't going to like you. You'll be rejected romantically. But actually, the opposite happens.

There's something really attractive about someone who's being their true self. And I'll tell you this. Everyone, I've been meeting so many people lately who have been struggling in love to find love. And this comes up time and time again. They end up with someone and they'll say to who they love and they're having an amazing relationship with. And they'll say it was so weird because I didn't think this person was my person. They live across the ocean or they weren't someone that I would ever date. so I just didn't give a shit. And I just showed up as my authentic self. I just said what I meant and meant what I said. And it turns out that this is an amazing relationship. And just by them being their true authentic selves, they were brave because it was low stakes. But it turned turned into something really beautiful. And then you, by default, kind of end up in a relationship that is easier. Yeah. You know, because you're not having to pretend or.

You know, you're not having to think so consciously about how you look and whether you have makeup on or not or, you know, all of those things. And why should you? I mean, if you're going to spend your life, I mean, this is the thing. In the first three months to three years, depending how quickly you show your true self, that's the infatuation stage, right, where things are new and exciting. But the attachment phase of the relationship where you can really go deep and the sustainable long-term love happens. not only in the showing of your true selves, but in the full acceptance and embracing of each other's truth. That's real intimacy, you know, and so who wants to have a long-term relationship where you, eventually the charade has to stop. And that's often when the wheels come off. How do you know you're ready for a relationship? Huh. I think it's, for me, it's you know yourself.

You know yourself, including your shadows and your words. wounds. You don't have to have them all healed and be perfectly whole, you know, but you have to know them and take responsibility for them and be working on them. And you have to be able, in my opinion, like I was saying, to be able to really advocate for yourself and show up as your true self. Because if you don't, several things happen. Like let's say you're someone who is deep into codependency and hasn't done that work on themselves. You're going to attract in and be attracted to people who are going to be narcissists, who are going to be cheaters, who are going to be addicts. So, yes, you may be quote unquote ready for love, but you're not necessarily, it's one thing

to be ready to be loved and to love. It's another thing to be in a place where you're going to attract in and be attracted to someone who's really healthy and whole themselves. in your clinical practice, would you say that the holes from childhood are kind of the biggest obstacles? Or, you know, what would you say are kind of the bigger rocks that, you know, people haven't maybe dealt with in a way that allows them to kind of show up in the relationship? Yeah, it's usually stuff that happened when we were growing up. I mean, sometimes traumas happen later in life, abusive relationships or, you know, a traumatic assault. or going to war or something like that.

But very often, we now understand this with a lot of the PTSD research going on, that even that more later in life trauma, how the person moves through that and how resilient they are is in large part informed by their earlier life experiences as well. So really, it all comes back to our childhood. And one of the biggest barriers I find with my clients and just communities, I mean, I talk to people all over the world, is that people don't understand really what trauma is. You know, they think trauma has to be that you were seriously physically abused or you were in the foster system or you were sexually abused or, you know, one of your parents or both of your parents died or there was a big medical issue. And those are all obvious traumas.

But there are all of these other traumas, attachment traumas that happen along the way of ways in which we were given the message. again and again that we're not enough or that we have to be a certain way to be loved or that love can be taken from us or that we aren't really lovable unless we do and be or look a certain way. And actually, I find that a lot with athletes that that's mixed in there. Yeah, maybe talk about that for a little bit. Just, you know, I was an elite level athlete. You know, I played at the Olympic level. And so, yeah, I mean, everything you're talking about, you know, it's so funny because so many of my teammates, you know, come from highly traumatic backgrounds. Yeah. You know, it's, kind of like we've escaped into sport and in a lot of ways to try to cope, you know, with

devastating, you know, early childhood trauma. And not everyone, of course, but I find that that is a feature of the elite athlete. So, yeah, I'd be curious to just get your kind of high-level thoughts. Yeah, I find that to be the case, too. And obviously, we can't say every single one, but it is definitely more the norm than not. And I think it happens for a couple of reasons. One, like you said, it's a way to sublimate. It's a way to focus. You have to be so focused and so narrowly focused

that it's a form of avoidance and distraction, first and foremost. But I think also for many athletes, it's one of the ways that they, it gives them a sense of control. You know, so when you've had a serious trauma or any trauma, even these, I don't even like the word little T trauma because it kind of minimizes it, but any kind of trauma, it's a sense of powerlessness, right? And so becoming an elite athlete, you are really controlling every aspect of your life, you know,

and the whole thing, to succeed at it, the whole thing is about control. So I think that's something that really is attractive to the trauma victim. I feel safe temporarily. Absolutely. It gives you a sense of safety and control. And it also, for many of the athletes that I've worked with, it gives them a sense of, especially if they were really emotionally abused or minimized or in critical and controlling environments. This was a way that they could get love and approval that once again was that they could manage and control because many of them grew up in households where there was no predictability. You couldn't and you could be gobsmacked at any time with emotional or physical or other kinds of abuse.

but you get unequivocal love, not only from the world, but from your family often, you know, when you, quote, unquote, succeed. So it gives you something. And I don't only find this with elite athletes. I find this with people in the entertainment world. Anyone who's like, I mean, honestly, most people who are extremely successful, a big part of their drive was reactive, more than proactive. And you probably have to just rediscover your self-worth in a lot of ways. You know, I think a, I see that, you know, and with, you know, teammates and people kind of in these, in these scenarios, but you said it can be anyone, you know. And how do you, you know, when you think about emotional intimacy and worth from these kind of shallower sources, I suppose, you know, how do you help people navigate through that? It's, because it shows up in the relationship

eventually, right? Yeah, and every way. Yeah. I mean, so first of all, let me just say that there's a difference between self-worth and self-esteem. Okay. So that's like, important to understand. Self-esteem is, I am lovable and worthy because I'm great at this sport, or I'm a good person, or I am pretty, or I am kind, or, you know, fill in the blanks there. But there are conditions for your worth. That's self-esteem. Self-worth is, I am worthy of love and adoration. I am completely and unequivocally lovable simply because I exist. That's it. not because of the promotion I got or the how many goals I scored or anything and every one of us is every single one of us is that but it can take a lifetime to get to that place and very often the path to getting there is you know what I call a series of AFGEs another freaking growth experience after another those things that break us apart and break us down so that our ego has to let go we don't have a choice and then you know know, like the butterfly, right? The caterpillar, it wasn't until much later in my life that I

discovered that caterpillars don't go in the cocoon and grow wings. They go in the cocoon and decompensate to complete green mush. And then they reconfigure, because the imaginal cells are in their DNA of the butterfly, they literally rebuild and reconfigure in the safety of the cocoon into this butterfly. And then they emerge. And it's such a beautiful metaphor for this. kind of healing because very often if you spent your whole life in denial and seeking love in all the wrong places, it very often will take that kind of breakdown. It doesn't have to, but it often does. I mean, it did for me too to totally decompensate and then be open enough to let in the grace and the healing that allows you to find the worth. And it's going to be, sound like a strange

answer, but honestly, the source to worth is a spiritual one. I don't mean a religious one per se, but a spiritual one, because once you start tapping and tuning in to a higher power, and listen, A, A, A, and all those people know, you know, all those groups know this already. But once you start tapping and tuning into that, it's impossible not to realize and recognize how lovable you are, how worthy you are. Would you say getting through shame and inhibition that kind of has to happen, and that's a precursor to really good sex? Yes. I mean, you can have really good sex if you walk around the world that way,

but it usually is a little bit disassociated. So you're not really in the room. I mean, your body is responding, but you're not really in the room. And that's not, I mean, you can decide whether that's good or bad. But if you want the ultimate sexual experience, and that's why I spend time in the book, like helping you get, there's a whole chapter on moving beyond your inhibitions. You know, I think that's a.

So I guess the answer is yes, ideally, but it's not required. I don't want people to feel like I have to be totally healed and deal with all my traumas in order to have great sex because that's not true. I think that comes through very clearly that you don't need to be a perfect human in order to have, like, you know, that's never going to happen, right? So it's kind of letting that go and just working on an open mind and an open heart, you know, and kind of making that your focus. And being in the present moment. and, you know, really learning and honing how to do that. I want to pivot a bit and talk about wellness and grief. My other favorite topic.

Yeah, yeah. And you're so wonderfully expert and compassionate in how you deal with these topics and just how they impact relationships. You launched Grief Healing Collective. Tell us a little bit about that. I'm so excited about this. Yeah, it is a grief, healing membership, basically. It's on Mighty Networks. And it's such a beautiful community because

everyone there has lost someone. So anyone experiencing any kind of grief. And we have, every month, we have live healing sessions where I bring in all of these amazing healers from breathwork to mediums, to psychologists, to somatic experiencing people to help support grief healing. There are, I put out a toolkit every month because I have sort of these six pillars of healing that I've discovered that really are a key to moving through and healing from tremendous loss because what I've learned about grief, especially over the past three to four years, is that it can be a phenomenal portal of transformation and you don't just have to go through horrible loss and survive it. You can actually thrive through it. You can

continue a relationship with your loved ones on the other side. You know, remember what I said, we're pure energy. The other thing we know, and I'm not just saying we know like in the vernacular, I mean, we scientifically know, is that energy can't be created or destroyed. It never gets created. It is always there. It just changes form. So when we die, the energy, our human expression of our energy is no longer there, but our energy can be accessed. And so I teach people how to do that. And I bring and experts who do that. And it's also just a gorgeous community because one of the hardest parts about grief is that the rest of the world needs you to be okay. And so you're going to work, you're often in your extended family and in different places. You can't really, you have to

kind of pretend. And that's so painful. And so to have a place, and this is what I hear from people again and again, to have a place where they're with people who intimately understand their pain, they can talk about it, they can show up once again as their authentic selves and learn all these paths to healing and integrating the loss in a beautiful way is really just being in that community is unbelievably healing. That's incredible that you've put this together. And, you know, I was as a mother of two teenagers. I was like incredibly impacted when I learned about your loss. You know, is to what extent is this collective kind of born out of your own experiences? And what have you learned through that? I've learned a lot. Yes. So I, my 16 year old son died for,

years ago from accidental fentanyl poisoning. A drug dealer got in touch with him through Snapchat, which is where they find them, and gave him a menu of drugs. It was during the pandemic. We were in lockdown and offered to deliver it to the house like a pizza. And my bored, idiotic teenager, because good kids make bad decisions. I mean, I sure as hell did. Decided to take this dealer up on it, a Percocet or Xanax or whatever it was he took. I don't know because it was pure fentanyl. But it only takes a few grains of fentanyl to kill you. It's in 65% of the street drugs. And I had no idea at the time. I had let my kids be on social media during the pandemic because that was the only way they could relate. And so my rule was as long as you're

doing your schoolwork and keeping up in school, like I don't, I didn't know back then. I mean, this was 2021. I didn't understand that there were so many predators and dealers being matched to my kid through Snapchat, through the algorithm. So, yeah, so I found him gone in his room on Super Bowl Sunday four years ago from taking something that he had got from a dealer through Snapchat. And obviously, my life imploded. I had had many losses. I'd lost both my parents, my kind of spirit mother, who was like my second mother,

both my grandmothers. I'd been by all of their sides when they transitioned. I had been through tremendous grief. I had counseled many people in grief. I knew how to move through grief, but this was deeper and wider than anything I could have ever imagined. And yeah, it was a deep, dark ride. But I went all the way into it because when my mother had died 10 years prior, that was

my worst, most impossible loss before Sammy. and I was filming a show for own. I had a five day a week radio show on Oprah Radio. I was her expert on her show. I had three young kids. I did not have time to grieve. And my mother died of metastasized breast cancer and started in her left breast.

And within a year of her dying, I, with no risk factors, no genetic precursors, had breast cancer in the same breast. And I knew even then, that it was because it was my body's response to the unprocessed grief. Now, that's not to say that if you don't process your grief, you're going to get cancer. But in my case, I definitely understood that. And it actually required me to completely shut down, stop my life.

And that's what ultimately led to quantum love. So it was a beautiful journey. But I knew when Sammy died that this was going to take me out if I didn't allow myself to go all the way in. and I got that message. We could get into the crazy metaphors, physical stories that happened, but maybe a different time. But I got that message very clearly. And so I went all the way in to the pain. And what I learned, which I didn't know before, is that when you do that in a contained

in conscious way, which is one of the things I really focus on teaching in the grief healing collective. There is a bottom. I didn't think there would be. There is a bottom you reach. It only takes like 15 to 20 minutes each time that you let yourself go all the way into the feeling, somatically, release it. And afterwards, you feel lighter and clearer. It's like taking a tremendous emotional poop. You know, it's such a relief and a release and your frequency rises. And what I also learned, and as I started to do more research, became clear, is that when you're frequency, you know, when we leave our bodies, our energy, you know, we're pure high frequency, something the human body could never reach. And so when you want to

connect to the other side, it's really hard for them to reach us when we're at our lowest places of blame, shame, depression, you know, when we need them the most. But what I learned is when I would have these releases. I could feel, because I understood how frequencies feel in my body already, I could feel my frequency rise. And then I started noticing the correlation, oh, that's, oh, I'm feeling him here. I can connect with him. I can get these communications in these higher frequency states. So it was an added benefit of not only the physical and emotional release in healing, but it actually allowed me to access him more. So that was just one of so many things I discovered. on this journey. And then I started to teach. I got really called because my whole life has been

heal or teach always. So it was just a natural progression that I started working first with other mamas who had lost children because I quickly realized that nobody has any, we're grief illiterate in our society. Nobody has any idea how to grieve, much less how to grieve healthy. And all the models I think of grief are so, I can't really tell any of them. Yeah. And so I became clear. clear that there's a different way to do this and that I need to teach people how to do it. So I started doing retreats and workshops. And then ultimately I wanted to make it more accessible to people.

So I started the grief healing collective. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, of course. I think, I mean, loss and grief is such a core feature of the human existence, you know. And I think to your point, like we don't really have great tools on how to deal with that. And so I think your work in this area is going to be transformative for so many lives it already is, you know, so thank you. Thank you.

How, you know, I think when we consider, and this is kind of like to end here because I know we're up on time here, but when you consider how grief and loss manifests in relationships with people who are still living, oftentimes those completely fall apart, especially the loss of a child. You know, many couples cannot overcome that. What is your experience there? What would be your advice for people who have lost someone in their life and find themselves in their partnership, in their relationship, you know, not being able to be

emotionally intimate? Like, how do they open up those channels again with their partner? Yeah. Well, it's interesting because it's a different, it's two different things. So when you're talking about shared loss, like the loss of a child. Thank you for clarifying. that's different than like and there's a whole other series of issues when like you've lost your mother or your sister and your partner hasn't and how you show up for each other is also can be complicated um but if you're asking about the shared grief and i think this is true in every grief scenario it's really first and foremost about letting the other person grieve however they need to there's no right or wrong way and i certainly in the beginning had very and i still do have very specific ideas about the ideal, not necessarily the right way, but the ideal way to really heal and move forward

in a whole fashion. And I teach people that. But I also, my husband has handled it completely differently than I have. And both of us needed to be totally okay with that, with the pace, with the openness, with the processing or lack thereof, and really give each other grace and space and support for that. And, you know, I remember just days after Sammy died, my husband turning to me and saying, you know, I know a lot of couples don't make it through something like this, but we're going to make it. And I said, we are. And I think we are. But you, I already know now that on the other side of this, there isn't a cell in my body that is going to be the same. And I have no, I, for the first time, I have no idea who I'm going to turn into through this. Like, I don't.

know who I'm going to be on the other side of this. I really hope you like her. But let's see. And I'm committed. But just fair warning, I'm not going to be this. I'm already not the same. I'm not going to be the same person. And we have really given each other grace. And it has brought us more close together. And in many ways, he once said to me that he was talking to a friend who also lost their child. And he asked him about it because he has some relationship issues. this guy. Do you ever think about leaving? And he said, I can't imagine being with someone who didn't understand my pain to this extent and who didn't share it. And there is something really beautiful about that. So I think it requires a lot of grace, a lot of communication, a lot of

flexibility, and not sweeping it under the rug. And this is one of the reasons I'm so passionate about doing this work is because, especially for parents who have lost children, especially for parents who have other children, is that the one thing I know for sure is that if you can get right and get okay authentically, I don't mean pretending you're okay, because remember, that kids feel it either way. When you can be okay, that is when your kids can be okay. And the families I see falling apart and even the relationships I see falling apart is because they aren't willing to be with their loss. They're doing what I did when my mother died.

They're not facing it. They're not wanting to deal with it. They're just turning to anger or rage and avoidance. And we can do that for a while, but eventually the wheels come off. How do you get to that place of transcendence? Because I think that that is assuming you're kind of on this path of self-awareness and you're trying to patch up some of these holes, you know, from childhood or recognize, acknowledge them and go through this process of forgiveness and all that.

What is kind of that path? Because I think really good sex, right, which we're going to get to. There is that spiritual component. Oh, yeah, for sure. So take us through, like, what is that bridge to that kind of spiritual essence? Well, I mean, okay, so I'll tell you the path with the caveat that all of this is not required to have amazing sex. Okay. Fair enough. But if you want amazing sex in the context of a fully self-actualized, beautiful, supportive relationship with a partner who intimately shows up for you in every way, it is. So if you want the golden, you know, the golden ring. The ultimate experience. Then that's, then that's the path. And it's a lifetime path. It's not something that you.

you know, even achieve like an Olympic muddle or whatever. You work, you're working toward it always, but it's a lifelong journey. So I think the first piece of it is the therapeutic piece. So for me, the two forms are internal family systems and somatic experiencing. So internal family systems just fundamentally is about looking at your childhood, but in particular, in the context of the parts of you, because we all have all these parts that kind of take the wheel sometimes. You know, like maybe there's a controlling one who, when she feels nervous about how she's performing or at the effect of colleagues gets really controlling and really bossy and kind of leaves herself and really in her ego. Or maybe some way you show up parenting, it comes out in

these different ways, but any area of your life where you're feeling like, you're feeling like, like you're either being given the feedback that it's not being well received, or you're noticing you're feeling anxious, you know, reactive, really angry. All of us get those feelings regularly, but it's on the regular in certain situations. It's usually, or really, really insecure, you know, then it's usually a part coming up and kind of taking the wheel. And these are much younger parts of ourselves. This is where the early childhood comes in. And part of it, the way in family systems work is you start to identify those parts, usually in the context of something that's happening in your current life. And then you go back to where you first started, you go into

the feeling of what's underneath that. Like when I yelled at my assistant on the top of my lungs and made her cry and you're talking to the internal family systems therapist, you know, how did you feel leading up to that moment, what was going on in your body? And then they'll take you back to like the earliest memory of feeling that way, then they repair, you repair yourself. So the adult part of you kind of goes back to that part. And it's called an integration. So it's a really beautiful process that I have found the most healing for people combined with somatic experiencing, which is really getting out of the thinking mind and going into the body about where those past emotions, traumas are held and working in a myriad of ways to release them. So that's

That's kind of the psychological piece. On the internal family systems, no bad parts. Yes, would you say that that's a really good resource for folks? Yes, no bad parts is a good one. Somatic experiencing would be the body keeps the score by Bessel van der Koke. Or Walking the Tiger by John Levine. Those are two good ones. And then from the spiritual sense, it's really, what starts to happen as you come into the body is that it does

awaken a spiritual connection, which is kind of ironic when you think about it, but our body is sort of our antenna. So the more you come back into your body, the more you can sense, you know, we're taking in 40 billion bits into our brains every millisecond, but we're only consciously processing 2,000 of them. So as you come more into your body, you can start to access more of that that's maybe going on beyond the conscious awareness. And as you start to engage in practices, even just like daily meditation or sound baths or breathwork or things like that, it can start to awaken and open because we all have these six senses and this access to the divine, to higher power, whatever you want to call it. But we, in our society at least, we're most of us,

the majority of us, aren't taught how to do that until we actively seek it. Yeah. You know, when I started getting really into somatic awareness, this about 15 years ago when I was quite disconnected from my body, and it's so ironic that I think my kind of path to spirituality was definitely through my body and becoming more aware of my heart rate and heart rate variability, like biofeedback, residence frequency breathing, was absolutely transformational for me. That makes sense to me. Because it just, it put me inside my body in a way that wasn't scary or felt like, you know, it was so resistant to things like sound bath and, you know, And I just, I couldn't quite connect.

Even meditation was kind of scary. Like I really tried so hard to meditate. And it just didn't, there's something that didn't feel safe to me. But the biofeedback for some reason just, I think I had, I felt a sense of control, you know, which made me feel safe. But I felt like for the first time I could feel my body from the inside, you know, and it was a spiritual experience. And so, yeah, I just think as. And then were you more open to other things? Yes, I mean, my heart and my mind and just like my ability to feel present and be safe in that presence, you know, like it is really a kind of a wild connection. And that's really what got me into the psychophysiology. You know, it's just like, holy shit, there's like this insane inner relationship that, you know, I just, for the first time, I felt like I authentically really connected the two, you know. And I love that you're saying that because also, you

you were an elite athlete, right? And that's what people don't understand. And I think this is probably universal in elite athletes that in order to work that hard and be in the kind of pain that comes with working that hard, which is another reason it's helpful to have had trauma first, because you learn with trauma to disassociate from your body. And I have found that most really high-level athletes are really, that's how they operate, is by disassociating. Yeah. And so what you're talking about is coming back into the body, which is where you can start to really connect to what a miracle you are.

Self-worth. That were all this unique humans. And it's insane that any of us exist. Even that, like the fact that that sperm and that egg got together and grew into an embryo and a fetus that was you and that you survived those nine months and birth. and your childhood and everything that, I mean, it is a miracle that any of us get to have a life. Great gratitude and perspective. You know, that's such a powerful path, too, I think, to healing and to spirituality. What's up, folks, if you are enjoying this podcast or if you care about health, performance, fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop. That's right. You can check out whoop at whoop.com.

It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain. And you can now sign up for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just at whoop.com. Back to the guests. Talk a little bit about energy in terms of, it kind of blows my mind, you know, in your book, how you knit all this together, honestly, the neurobiology and, you know,

the physiology and the psychology, and it's just such a beautiful exploration of how this all works together to kind of help us show up, you know, in a sexual relationship in a way that is so rewarding. What would you say when we think about this energetic, maintaining kind of energetic integrity and what does that actually mean? And how do we kind of start a carbapath toward that. Yeah. Oh, this part is so much fun. And I discovered this actually in the this is what led to my last book, Quantum Love. You've written nine books, by the way. Yeah, this is my 10th. It's insane. Yeah. But quantum love was, quantum love was actually a result of my own major AFGE and awakening that led me to this. But

so that's sort of the foundation of what sex, you know, and then I apply this all to sex and sex magic. But basically here, the core principle is that we, you know, we're sitting here talking to each other, talking into Mike sitting at a table across the table. It seems like you and I are different beings and, you know, and this table is different than us. There are all these different objects in this room. But on a quantum or atomic level, if we were to look at this through an atomic microscope, we would see that nothing here is separate or solid. We are all, everything around us is pure vibrating energy. That's it. So there is no real separation

between you and me on the quantum level, on the atomic level, even though we are clearly separate entities on the three level. And this table is just seems solid and a different material to us because it is vibrating at a different frequency than we are a slower one, light and a much higher one, right? So how does that apply to humans? Our bodies are, we are pure vibrating energy. Okay, that's what we are. We seem solid and like we have an end to my skin is the end of me, but it's not on an energetic level. In fact, there's research, and I get into all of this in my book, research that shows our energetic field and frequency actually has been measured up to six feet outside our bodies. It actually is much further, they think, but that's what the equipment that we have so far has been able to measure.

So what we now understand is that we as humans operate as human tuning forks. So our body holds an energetic frequency. And that energetic frequency is constantly shifting and changing within a range based on our thoughts and our feelings, conscious and unconscious. But in order for us to all be in the room with each other and even perceive each other, we are vibrating in harmony with each other. And what typically happens when you bring a group of people together, everybody's got their own energetic vibration, and usually they kind of meet in the middle. We all do something that's called entrained to each other energetically. Now, what I teach people to do in love and sex in all these ways is to harness their own energetic frequency and hold.

it so that everyone and everything matches them. So like when I came in the room and you were about to come in, I said, oh, shit, I forgot to meditate this morning because I had a friend with me. And so one of the things I typically do when I meditate is set my energetic frequency so that everywhere I go, everyone in trains to me. And I teach people in the book how to set that. So I quickly just kind of grounded, tapped and tuned in. So you are entrained to me. Everyone here, just so we know, it's in trained to me right now. Because, I mean, I'm holding a frequency. That's a real power move.

Yeah, it's a major power move. And it's a major Jedi mind trick in love. And that's how I discovered it. I was first trying to help my kids. It was out of desperation that I kind of stumbled upon this. Because my usual forms as a therapist mom of therapy and neuropsych testing and you know, none of that was working. And so it's a story of how I stumbled onto it.

But I was astounded at the impact that just me, not just being. okay on the outside after a stressful day, but really moving my body into a state of rest and open-heartedness and what I call home frequency matched with the intention of, I want you to fall asleep, imagining this kid that wouldn't go to sleep and was anxious and freaking out, moving myself into a state of calm, envisioning him asleep and safe and cozy as if it was happening right here right now and just lying next to him, he would pass out. Then I looked at my husband and I was like, hmm, I wonder what I could do over here. And so when I started realizing the power of this, that's when I started systematizing it and teaching it to couples and applying it

to sex in really cool ways. The fact that we can transfer energy in that way is, I think, such an important source of insight for human beings. And, you know, just, I mean, I think about this from, you know, a team perspective and, you know, just knowing that, and just a family unit perspective that my stress levels are going to transfer to my family, you know, and I think about this in the, in the context of different modalities we can engage in to be more in control of our own energy, but sleep, obviously, you know, we see that, you know, we, when we're underslept, we're going to transfer just the way that we hold our face, you know, we have the psychological safety, right, is we did a really cool study where we're able to see that the sleep of a CEO, how much sleep debt

they accrued, directly impacted the psychological safety of their direct reports, right? So when we talk about this idea of energy, it's like, it's so big, right? And it sounds so woo-woo, but. Yeah. No, it's not. It's quantum physics. Totally, right? And so what are some of, you mentioned kind of meditation.

Like, how do we access that energy, you know, consistently? You know, where we can show up in the world with this energy that feels really aligned with who we want to be in the world. Yeah. And what's happening with that CEO is, you know, I talk about the logistical field and the quantum field. So in the logistical field, the CEO is tired, grumpy, short-tempered, has a puss on his face maybe, you know, isn't giving as much positive feedback, just drained energetically. You could apply this to parents as well with their kids. So that's happening on the logistical level. on the quantum level he could literally be smiling and pleasant but it's still going to impact the the emotional energy of the people around him or her so that piece because he's exhausted

and not conscious of his own energy that's a huge piece of this is becoming conscious and harnessing it and I teach all kinds of techniques in quantum love and in sex magic for kind of moving into what I call home frequency, which is our natural state. We're born that way. It just kind of gets conditioned out of us. But it's very natural. And in fact, I am not a very athletic person, but I really commit to exercising for my health and well-being. One of my best ways to get through a really hard workout is literally moving myself into home frequency. And I can push through without pain. So it's really the simplest way that I can, I mean, I could take you through it. I just want to be sensitive to time or I could just describe to you how to do it.

But the easiest way to move into home frequency is to first, step one is grounding your body's energy because most of us are walking around like ungrounded electrical cords, just whipping around, matching everyone and everything, right? So you take three to five really deep breaths in through your nose and out through your mouth. And as you're breathing in, you imagine a beautiful light. coming in through the top of your head. Just notice the color can be any color. And as you breathe in and hold the breath for a beat, you let it fill every cell in your body. And then as you breathe out, imagine the light shooting out your tailbone going deep, deep, deep into the earth like roots of a tree

spreading out there. And so you take three to five breasts like that in, let the light come in, fill your whole body. I have a grounding meditation on my website. If you just go to my website to the Quantum Love page, you'll find it. And then you take three to five grounding breasts like that. And then in your imagination, just think of a time in your life where you felt pure, unadulterated joy and love, like maybe when you held your baby for the first time or you were standing getting that Olympic medal or something that's just, and you move in your mind as if it were happening right here right now because the brain and the body don't know the difference between reality and rehearsal. But the key is to see yourself in first

person. So you aren't watching yourself on the, what's the thing you stand on when you get your medal on the podium? Thank you. You're not seeing yourself on the podium. You can look down and see your feet on the podium. You're employing all your senses in your imagination as if it's happening right here right now in this now moment. And that will literally move your body into the energetic frequency of that state. Now if you want, if you're going into a big meeting or you're going to have a difficult conversation with your partner, then what you imagine, if you're going to apply this out, is the ideal outcome of that scenario. Like everyone is sitting at the conference table nodding and smiling and they're all excited about my idea and you're looking around.

and you can see your hands clicking the slides and, you know, talking and you're feeling all the feelings that you would be feeling in that successful moment. You're moving your body and match it into that energetic frequency and matching it with intention. And then you go into the conference room and everyone matches you there. So what happens if I'm just completely in control of my energy and let's say I'm working with a therapist and I'm kind of moving through, you know, all of these holes and patching them up. What happens if my partner kind of isn't on the same page, doesn't have the same energy? You know, where are the tensions? How do we resolve it? Okay. Well, first I want to change it to whole from patching them to filling the holes.

I love that. Perfect. And not even holes, but like just parts, like, let's call it, reintegrating parts of yourself. Because you already are whole. You just don't know it. You being, I don't mean you necessarily, but you being the universal gets us away from thing that we need to be fixed all the time. Yeah, I love that. You're perfect. It's just, there's a part of us that is untouched and perfectly understands all of this. Like if I were to say to you, say hello to yourself silently right now inside your mind. Just do it real quick. Right. There is one of you that is saying hello and there is one of you that is hearing hello. Can you notice that?

yes okay so the one that is hearing hello is that perfect untouched whole true you underneath all the wounds and egos and stories and all the shit that you carry around right that's the one that was saying hello okay so you're already whole but there are parts of you that you know okay so to answer your question one of two things happen your partner will automatically start in training to you. That's one of the coolest things. That's what I mean when I say a Jedi mind trick. Now here's the tricky part. So when you're focusing on your own learning and development, that will transfer to your partner. In the logistical field, it will transfer in that you're being a model, right? So you're not pushing your healing on them. You're not making them less than and being

patronizing about it. You're just doing your stuff and maybe sharing it with them, the insights or whatever, but they're able to see the transformation that's happening, and then that becomes inspirational and often they'll come along for the ride. One of the coolest things that I discovered with Quantum Love as a therapist of 30 years, all of the couple's work I had done up into that point, it was really hard to do without bringing the other partner in, and often they didn't want to come in, so I'd get as far as I could, but eventually it would be hard. With Quantum Love, and with what I teach from the energetic standpoint, I don't need the other partner. You can change everything in your relationship by changing what's going on energetically within yourself. However, if you start

to live at a higher frequency, which is typically the lowest frequency our body can hold is shame and guilt. The highest frequency is bliss, right? So shame, guilt, anger, resentment, blame. All of those are kind of, you know, we can, we move, not that we shouldn't ever be in those states, but those are low frequency states once you get to curiosity and optimism to hope to excitement to aliveness to joy those are you know the higher frequency states but from the point of like optimism and curiosity is kind of the tipping point into what i would call home frequency so if you are with someone who really lives in those lower frequencies it will be painful for them to be around you as you are holding and living in a higher frequency.

So they will often start to act out, to try to bring you down, to try to make you wrong. But if you are doing your work, cognitively, emotionally, and energetically, you will hold that frequency. And then what I see time and time again, one of two things happens. Either they rise and they start to face their own shit. Or you get to a place where you're not scared of losing them anymore. And you can walk away, which is the ultimate. You asked earlier, how do you really have a good loving relationship?

Ironically, it's by first and foremost knowing that every day you're choosing them. It's an active choice, not that you're going to walk away, but that you could because that's the only way you can really get your needs fully met and meet theirs in a healthy way. So eventually, it may come to that point, but you'll be in such a whole integrated place. that, not that it won't be sad, but it will make sense. As you're talking about high frequency and low frequency, it made me think about hearty variability and how there has to be an association with people who are kind of in this higher frequency, you know, experiencing hope and optimism and bliss, and more often probably have higher heart rate variability, right?

Yeah, that would be an interesting study. It would be, right? like to kind of pulse people's emotions throughout the day and get a sense of. And get a sense of the physiologic markers. Ooh, that would be fun. Getting a sense of the physiologic markers of when you are in home versus what I call ego frequency. And then you could actually have monitors in your whoop devices that are kind of like, ding, ding, ding, ding, you're going into ego frequency. Low frequency alert.

That would be fun. I'm feeling a study brewing. Dr. Berman. So, okay, let's talk a little bit about modern dating. Yeah. Dating apps and just in social media. I mean, it just seems like the landscape has changed in terms of how we connect and communicate. How have you seen that kind of evolve in your practice, you know, as you're working with different individuals and couples?

It's gotten really rough. I mean, the implement, when online dating started and even up until. I would say five to ten years ago, it was a great resource for people who, you know, were in big cities or working all the time, you know, and so it was a way to really widen your access. It has turned into something I feel is pretty toxic. It's almost like made dating into cheap fashion, you know, the same kind of like consumer. People are treating it more, which is okay, but if you're looking for love, it's not, like a sex app. You know, even the ones that are designed, like Bumble, you know, designed for finding love

are turning into like where the majority, and this is, I hear this complaint all the time, the majority of people, especially men are saying, you know, I'm not looking for commitment, I'm looking for fun, I'm like, you know, and then even the ones that are looking for commitment, it's created, there are so many, the impact of social media and the, and the like, Insta-perfect. The grass is going to be greener. And also the feast of riches online that nobody wants to commit. So even if you meet someone who's great and you have chemistry with and you really like and you're really into, you're thinking, hmm, but there's 20 other people out there. So I'm just going to breadcrumb this person and kind of keep them on the hook for a while while I explore

all these other days. And I'm going to keep five people on the hook. And it's just this game of, turned into this weird game of manipulation and it's somehow become weird to want to meet. You know, people just text for months at a time while they're tasting, feeling out all these different options. So there are ways we can talk about for navigating it and setting boundaries. But I honestly think if you have the stomach for online dating now, obviously do it and use whatever those boundaries we may talk about. But I think we're going to move back toward meaning people, IRL. I think that's what we're going to.

I think people are starting to get really burned out. Yeah. Of just living in isolation with fake online friends. Yeah. There's been an experiment. Yeah. And I think that experiment is kind of coming to an end and people are realizing. Yeah.

I hope so. I feel like it's moving kind of we're, I don't know, there's a boomerang kind of effect. Yeah. I think there has to be. Shotting back to, I think, more traditional ways of. of connecting. And when you really set, you do your work, you're setting, you're getting clear on what you want out of love, you're holding that, you're imagining it, you're holding that energetic frequency, you're going out, even if you're going out on online dating, you set very, you know, you get clear

in your profile what you're looking for, you show up as your authentic self, you know, if someone isn't willing to meet in person within two weeks, bye-bye, unless they live across the world, you know, but otherwise, like, you know, you get clear on. what you're willing, you get boundaryed online. And I think that is one way to navigate it, but I think it's even better if you get involved in your community, you volunteer in places, you join clubs or organizations that interest you. You know, you say to all of your friends and colleagues, I'm open, I'm looking for love if you know anyone who might be a good fit, you know, fix me up. And you put yourself out there that way. You turn your cab light on when you're

walking around, you know, and let people kind of that energy of get your face out of your phone and like make eye contact with people. And I think you tapped a really important point. You know, you mentioned your interests. Like I think if you're just like totally absorbed in your own learning, your own development and, you know, you're seeking, I really enjoy art. I'm going to an art museum. Well, you're probably going to meet someone else who really enjoys art and, you know, has a genuine interest in that. So I feel like if you're just like totally focused in like living your values as hard as you can, people gravitate to you. Absolutely. Because that's a path to controlling your energy, right? Yes. And you're looking, you're not just in your own little world in the art gallery. You are aware of people around you. You're smiling at people. You're engaging with the world around you. And even if you don't meet your love interest, you may make a friend whose sibling is going to be your love interest or who can fix you up. So I think it really does work that way. And the more you work on yourself, the more, you know, and really put yourself out there as available. Because that

And in dating, I find, is one of the places where your energy is the most obvious in terms of the way that it manifests. Because a lot of us have blocks. We don't even realize where we're having, but we're like, why am I not meeting anyone? And then slowly we realize, oh, there's a part of me that act as much as I want love. I'm really scared that I'm going to lose myself in it or that I'm going to get hurt again. So there's a part of me that's been in resistance to it. Can relationship survive without sex? They do.

But, you know, it's more like room. and best friends than lovers, and it does make the relationship vulnerable to other people and to other things. But I certainly see them work. So it can survive, but there's a level of emotional intimacy and connection that starts to wane when you don't have the sexual connection. When you're controlling your energy and the way that you describe in your book and kind of the path to that in quantum and then in sex magic is more tactical, I would say. in a lot of ways. What is the impact on hormones, and do we know that?

Like, how does that impact your testosterone, for example, which we know is really an important hormone for sexual desire, right? Yeah. Talk a little bit about the impact there. Well, there have been no studies on how the energetic frequency you choose to hold impacts your hormonal milieu. That would be an interesting study too. I was wondering if you kind of put that out there.

I didn't see any studies related to that, but that was the question. But there have been studies that show indirectly that when your hormone levels are not where they could be or should be, that obviously impacts your sexual energy. Yeah. But there also have been studies to show that, for instance, you'll have a woman who has low testosterone and low desire and then gets divorced, let's say, or has an affair. And she has all the desire in the world. And in fact, her testosterone spikes with the novelty of a new person, right?

So that to me is a message that, you know, it's not just our hormones impacting our behavior and our emotional states. It's our behavior in our emotional states that impact – or even our energetic states, I think, that impact our hormones. But, you know, one of the things I love about sex magic is to me it's the antidote to bedroom boredom. Because the number one question I get from people, no matter where I speak or who I talk to, who are in relationships is how do you spice it up? How do you spice it up? Chapter 8. Spells and rituals. Tell us. What's interesting about that question became really

intriguing to me because, you know, I've been doing this a long time. And I would give people in the beginning of my career when I was more in the logistical field, I would give people tips, tools, toys. I mean, that was my first eight books. Tips, tools, toys for increasing at libido for improving sexual response, for making sex more spicy, for keeping things interesting, and those are all really valuable. But what would happen is in a year to a year and a half, if I gave them a year's worth of those things, they'd be back asking for more. They wanted novelty. Then I started asking from a quantum level, okay, so what is the feeling that novelty gives you? Because everything we want is because we want a feeling. We want that Ferrari because of how we're

going to feel parking in our driveway and driving it. We want a certain kind of partner or even love in general because of how we're going to feel when we have it, which is, by the way, one of the ways you attracted in is by that's how you learn what you really want in love is by getting clear on how do you most want to feel when you have your ideal partner, right? What are the three? I even have a quiz on my website. What do you want in love? It's right there on the top to help you navigate, like get clear on the feelings, the top three feelings. I said, Is it playful? Is it cherished? Is it safe? You know, there's, so what happens is I said, okay, so what is it? I started asking people, so when you have

that spiciness, when you have that excitement or novelty, how do you feel? And the word that kept coming up is intensity. Intensity of experience, intensity of excitement. That's what they're looking for. And that's what starts to wane with familiarity. And so that's the underpinning of what led to sex magic because as I started really digging into the energetics of sex, but also these ancient techniques from Taoism and tantra and kundalini and turning those into more kind of practical exercises where you can not only just feel the sexual sensations in your genitals, but pull them through your whole body and shoot them out the top of your head, circle them around you and your partner, it turns sex into a sensual, energetic, almost spiritual, and certainly intense experience.

Is there, do you think, a relationship between the intensity and just being, kind of feeling biologically relevant? You know, like, I guess I'm thinking about it from an evolutionary perspective, you know, when we're in these really familiar relationships where we've had children and that intensity kind of wanes or that because we're not, we have our kids, right? Like we're not procreating. So there's like something biologically happening as well that we have to kind of overcome, right? Well, long-term monogamy is not natural. And if you look at the evolutionary history, we are really programmed for serial monogamy. That's in our DNA. You know, once farming started, monogamy kind of became a business. And when monogamy was for life

was created, we didn't live past 50, you know. So thanks to modern medical technology and healthy lifestyles, now our life expectancy is 100 years for most of us. So monogamy for life is a long-ass time. So I don't think evolution has caught up with that. So that's part of it. It's not the biological imperative for children. It's the, you know, sex beyond menopause and andropause, you know, into our 50s and beyond. And it's the familiarity thing, right, all combined. But so it takes a real intentional effort that isn't a painful one. It can be a beautiful one. But it takes a conscious intentional effort to keep the connections strong. And when you do, it's a beautiful thing. And you can have, you know, I've been married 23 years and he still makes

my uterus contract. That's amazing. I love that. So, you know, if you were to give our listeners kind of three, let's say, you know, they've kind of are doing all the work that you've described to kind of have this foundation to show up in the relationship, you know, what would be kind of the three pieces of advice you would give to them to kind of start down this path for mind-blowing sex? I think read sex magic because you'll learn, you know, start practicing those techniques because as you start to, and I say in the book again and again, practice these exercises on your own first because it's not hard, but it's kind of, it can be like patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time at first. It's not, we're not used to doing it. So once you learn, for instance, how to pull, for most of us, that genital sensation, so through self stimulation or even using a vibrator, that genital sensation is kind of, to localize to your genitals, you know, pull it up to your belly button and then to your heart and like you can start to practice that and learn how to do this on your own. And you want to get it to the top of the head. If you can. You don't have to. That's just one goal. It can be amazing to circle it between your heart and your genitals. It can be even cooler to pull it up from your genitals into your partner's heart and take it back in through their genitals and create a

circle. There are all kinds of beautiful things that I describe that you can play with. And you don't even have to tell your partner what you're doing. I mean, when I was exploring these and investigating these, my little experiment was I wouldn't tell my partner, my husband, what I was doing. I would just do it and then see what his reaction was. And then afterwards, I'd be like, you know what I did? So you can play with this yourself. And then, and even if you're single, obviously you can play with it yourself and have your own mind-blowing experiences. And it becomes almost spiritual. Like I think the best sex, you know, we're not taught this in our religious education,

but the best sex, you feel really close to God. Not like a judgmental, angry God who's going to punish you. I mean the universal higher power that is pure love. Like it can be a really spiritual experience to have mind-blowing, beautiful, sex. Dr. Laura, thank you so much for coming on the Woot Podcast. It's been such a fun conversation and you are just so full of wisdom and insight. And I hope people run out and get sex magic. It's pre-order it now and any of the other nine books. Is there one that you feel really close to? I know the recent book probably is where you feel. I'm really excited about quantum love.

I feel can really change. I mean, all of them are special. like my children, I don't really have a favorite. But quantum love was probably the most personal one I've written. And I feel like it's really a foundation that can change your life in every fashion, but especially in your love life. And sex magic is really, you know, if you want to take your sex life to the next level and really reach a level of intimacy and intensity, I'm excited about it. Yeah. And what can people expect when they read sex magic? How is that going to impact other aspects of their life. Because that's really what, because once you get kind of that in order, it does, like how you move in the world. Yeah. Fundamentally changes. Yeah. And chapter eight that

you referred to earlier is really about manifestation. We were talking about the energetic frequencies your body can hold. Sexual pleasure and in particular orgasm is literally the highest frequency the body can hold. Right. So when you put an intention underneath that and hold that intention, it kind of supercharges it into the quantum field, which is really the science behind the law of attraction or all of those things. So it does. It changes the way your energetic frequency and then thus how people respond to you and entrain to you, but it also changes how you move in the world. Well, thank you so much. You're welcome. If you enjoyed this episode of the WOOP podcast, please leave a rating or review. Check us out on social at Woop at Will Ahmed. If you have a question

was he answered on the podcast, email us, podcast at whoop.com. Call us 508, 443-9552. If you think about joining whoop, you can visit whoop.com, sign up for a free 30-day trial membership. New members can use the code will, W-I-L, to get a $60 credit on Woop accessories when you enter the code at checkout. That's a wrap, folks. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green. We need to be able to be able to be able to be able. I'm going to help me help you. I'm kind of baby.

And you're playing. So I'm going to be. We're going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to get. I'm going to You're making up, yeah, when I know what you're going to be able to be.

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