WHOOP Podcast - How To Build Endurance with 8-Time Cyclocross World Champion, Mathieu van der Poel

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

In this month’s edition of the How To Series, WHOOP Founder & CEO Will Ahmed sits down with one of the world’s most dominant cyclists, Mathieu van der Poel. Will and van der Poel sit down to unpack hope to perform across disciplines, sustain longevity in elite-level sport, and embrace suffering for greatness. Van der Poel shares his training philosophy, what motivates him to push through the toughest moments of a race, and how he uses WHOOP data to optimize recovery. From sleep habits, to caffeine consumption, to strength training, and key recovery habits, van der Poel offers an inside look at how listening to his body and staying consistent drives performance.The conversation reflects the highs and lows of van der Poel's career, from battling pneumonia at the Tour de France, to the impact his long-term team has made on his career, to the role of fierce rivalries in pushing him to the next level. This episode offers an exclusive look into the mindset it takes to be one of the best endurance athletes in the world. (00:40) Mathieu van der Poel on Versatility as a Cyclist(03:21) Aspiring To Go Pro: van der Poel’s Upbringing in Cycling(04:36) Measuring Success In Cycling(05:55) Skills and Metrics Needed To Gain Power Over The Competition(08:06) A Week In Training To Gain Endurance(09:13) Essential Recovery Techniques(11:12) Learning To Enjoy The Suffering in Training(13:28) Overcoming Setbacks: Pneumonia & Tour de France(15:10) Importance Of Building A Supportive Team(16:32) Mathieu’s Motivations: Favorite Races & Inspiration In Sport(20:23) Turning To The Data: Monitoring Metrics Throughout The Race(23:55) Strength Training As A Cyclist & Mitigating Injury(27:39) A Look Ahead: Exciting New Steps in van der Poel’s Career(29:00) Nutrition & Intuitive Eating Before, During, and After Race Day(30:00) Visualization and Mindset’s Role In Cycling Success(30:35) WHOOP Podcast Rapid Fire QsFollow Mathieu van der Poel:InstagramSupport the showFollow WHOOP: Sign up for WHOOP Advanced Labs Trial WHOOP for Free www.whoop.com Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

From the first time I did some mountain bike races, I fell in love with it. You've had a pretty remarkable career at a young age. You can excel at all these different forms of biking and cycling. You need the numbers, but you can also win races by being smarter or doing the right things in the right moment. The strain is always close to the maximum. I would say it's painful in some way, but there's also some joy in the suffering when it goes well. How do you get to that place mentally to enjoy the suffering? On good days, it's easy.

Then the suffering is something I enjoy, actually. On bad days, it can really be hard to push through it, especially on the bike. That's part of sports. I think everybody has good and bad days. It makes you appreciate the good moments even more. Okay, Matthew, welcome to the Whoop Podcast. Thank you. Excited to be here.

So you've had a pretty remarkable career at a young age, and you're one of the fittest dudes around. So we're going to talk about your training. I wanted to start, though, by just understanding your versatility. Because when people talk about you, there's the... endurance, there's the strength, but really a lot of it comes back to the versatility, the fact that you can excel at all these different forms of biking and cycling. Talk a little bit about how you actually got into these different disciplines. Yeah, so I started with cyclecross, which is really big in Belgium. And I think I switched to road cycling to have like a new challenge,

which was really successful and still glad that I made a choice. And then for the Rio Olympics, As Cycle Cross is not an Olympic discipline. I wanted to try mountain biking, which was a difficult part back then and still now, I have to say it's maybe the most difficult discipline for me to excel in, but that is what makes it really exciting for me as well. I love the challenge, so it's one of the disciplines I love doing most, maybe because it's so difficult for me,

and the challenge is really, yeah, for me the biggest one, and that's why I continue to strive for it. What makes mountain biking so hard versus cyclocross or road cycling? Yeah, I think to start, the cyclocross and road bike, they are quite similar. Mountain bike is a completely different bike. It's also not something I grew up doing. And of course, the courses are super hard. They're getting more and more technical.

You have to compete the best guys in mountain biking are a lot lower in weight than I am, so that's what makes it really difficult for me to compete. But from the first time I did some mountain bike races, I fell in love with it. And that's why I love doing it so much. Now, when you say they're a lower weight, what do they weigh versus you? Yeah, in kilograms, I think the average will be a bit more than 10 kilograms less than I am. So that makes it very difficult, yeah, to follow them uphill. And then also downhill, they're born to do it.

Like I was with cyclocross and that's, yeah, what makes it difficult competing to the best guys in mountain biking. Why do you feel like you were born to do? cyclocross. Yeah, I've been doing it since I think I did my first race when I was six years old. So I've been doing it my whole life basically and this is something. If I jump on a cyclocross bike tomorrow, it takes me, I would say, 30 minutes to be back in the best possible way to do technical stuff. And yeah, I've been doing it my whole life and it's my second nature, I would say. Did you grow up knowing that you wanted to be doing this as a career? Did you have aspirations to be a pro athlete?

Yeah, I think that's always the dream as a kid, of course, but I think as a junior, so the category of 16-year-old, then you start to ride on the same courses as the elite men, and you also have the world championships, and then, of course, you start thinking about doing it as a profession. Of course, cyclocross then was always the thing I was loving and doing the most as well, Also, the road was not really in a picture back then that came later. What was the point where you were like, okay, I'm really good at this?

Of course, I won when I was young, I won already, but it's not really a reference. I think you could say I had some talent, but you never know until you're in the highest category where for me, everything starts all over again. It doesn't matter how many races you've won in the younger categories. It's with the elite that you have to prove yourself again. And I think the first race I did, I came in second between the elites when I was 18 years old, if I remember correctly. And then, of course, you know, there's a chance you can be really good at this sport. There's got to be an element with your profession where when you get a certain time at a certain thing or like some of the output numbers, it's like you automatically know that you're good. To contrast that, it's kind of hard to know if you're a good football or a good soccer player unless you're playing.

against other people and you calibrate, right? In the NFL, though, like, if you can kick a punt 60 yards, it doesn't matter if you're, you know, 18-year-old or 30-year-old, you kind of know you're a certain level of punter. Would you say that's fair in your profession where it's like you kind of know how good you are, even just from some of the, you know, the raw power outputs and some of the numbers that you're posting in times? Yeah, I think this is something we can really measure now, but still, luckily for me as well, the numbers on training are important, but racing is still something different. Of course, you need the numbers, but you can also win races by being smarter, for example, or doing the right things in the right moment. But nowadays,

you can really see the scouting for young talents is basically only numbers, and then they try to develop the skill, of course, later on. And in road cycling, it's even more important than in cyclocross, because there, besides the numbers, you also just need the technique, and this is something really difficult to learn. When you say there's like a skill to the races themselves, obviously intuitively that makes sense, what are the specific things you're referring to in a race? The classic races I do is positioning is super important. If you look at the Tour de France and, yeah, you do the climbs.

Of course, the power numbers are just, they speak for themselves. then it's just the strongest guy most of the time that wins. But in classic races, you have a lot of different race situations, race tactics. The positioning is super important. And I think this is what also makes it super exciting for me to do the classic races. And when you say positioning, are you talking about this idea of like sort of following behind someone? Yeah, we have key points. So we often go from big roads to a smaller climb, which is a key point in the race.

And yeah, you have to be in the 21st guys, let's say, because if there's a move and you're too far back, it's impossible. Even with the best numbers, it's impossible to be in a front group. And that's what makes it so exciting. How did you learn that? Did you study it or did you just get it from doing it? Yeah, I think getting from doing it, the problem is, or not the problem, but we are 180 guys. And they all know where to be in front. So it's always a super big battle to be in front.

and then you need a good team, good teammates, but also some experience to know how to get there, of course. This is something you can learn, but also with a strong team that can really make a difference in those kind of races. Let's talk a little bit about your training because you have to be insanely fit to be able to compete at this level. And for folks listening to this who aren't happy with their HRV, I don't think they're going to feel that much better when they hear your HRV.

So your HRV is like an average over 200. Yeah, I'm really high in HRV. I have this discussion with a lot of friends. I think it's a bit genetic maybe as well, but also, like you said, fitness is important. And I don't know for sure it's something that makes me stronger as well and better recovered. For me, this number, HRV and our HR are maybe the most two important numbers I watch at the recovery of the Woods Corps. Take us to maybe a week in training if you're really trying to push your body, if you're trying overreach. What would you do in that week? Yeah, just train really hard. And also,

consecutive days, I think this is something, if I really train hard for, yeah, three days in a row, let's say, the chance of being in green are really small. The thing is also with endurance, the strain is always close to the maximum because you're so long on the bike doing efforts. And yeah, you just see after a while, also, for example, in a grand tour, it's really difficult to get the good recovery in. Yeah, I've been using it already for a long time now. And after a while, you really know you can almost say in advance that the numbers are going to be good or not. So that's nice to have whoop to back it up. Have you gotten very focused on sleep as a consequence of whoop? Yeah, not only sleep, but everything. And I think it's

funny also with friends, like if you're in red, the only thing you think about is getting to green as soon as possible. So in that way, it really helps to wear it. And and to have the data to, like I said, back up the feeling you have. What are some recovery techniques that you find very helpful? For me, what I've seen from the data as well, yeah, red wheat and alcohol, of course, but that's not a lot of things. Those are bad. Yes.

Yeah. Red meat alcohol. Yeah. Those really show bad scores. I think reading before going to sleep was something that helped me as well, getting a better recovery and falling asleep much faster. So those are the thing I try to focus on. Do you ever take supplements or?

Yeah. What kind of stuff do you take? Yeah, I take some magnesium before going to sleep, which is also something that helps to relax the muscles. So like I said, everybody knows magnesium helps, but it's good to see at the whoop numbers that it's really helping. And like I said, I've been using it for so long that now I know already a bit from what I'm doing, like what influences this course.

Will you take caffeine while you're training? Yeah. Coffee or you take boo? Yeah, I think almost every cyclist is addicted to coffee. So I think that's the go-to for everybody. And then we also have caffeine gels or even drinks during the races or sometimes even during training when you feel a bit tired. Let's say the third day of training, you feel a bit tired.

You have to do some high intensity intervals. Yeah. Then it's nice to wake up the body with some caffeine. Yeah, I'm a big coffee guy, but I imagine what you do, it requires so much caffeine to keep you going in a way. Yeah, especially also the long races. It's like six, seven hours sometimes. And I've also seen from DNA tests that I'm really a good responder to caffeine. Well, the thing about caffeine, too, is not only does it give you energy and alertness,

but it also increases your pain tolerance. Yeah. So it helps, like, twice over if you're someone like yourself doing a pretty painful activity. Yeah, I would say it's painful in some way, but there's also some joy in the suffering when it goes well. How do you get to that place mentally to enjoy the suffering? On good days, it's easy. Then the suffering is something I enjoy, actually. On bad days, it can really, yeah, be hard to push through it, especially on the bike.

Yeah, when the legs are not cooperating, it's sometimes really difficult. But, yeah, that's part of sports. I think everybody has good and bad days, and you just have to get through them. Is there anything that you do in that moment where it's one of those bad days and it just fucking hurts? Like what? Do you have a little technique that you go to? Do you think about breathing? Do you try to zone out?

Do you try to focus? Yeah, I just tried to say to myself that it's with bad legs you can also just push power. But I think on training especially, like we talked about, I think caffeine is important, but also music is for me a big thing to get me through some hard sessions. Will you ever listen to music during a race? No, we're not allowed to. I'm not allowed. So we have communication from the car, but music is not allowed. Which sometimes, like, especially in the Tour de France, where you far behind the first guys

and you have to do a long climb to get to the finish line, I would really pay to get some music to just put the music in and just suffer until the finish line, but we're not allowed. Do you have a song you listened to before? I listened to all kind of music, also a lot of podcasts. When I just have a long training, I put on some podcasts. and yeah, it makes the time go faster. Because a lot of it is just logging hours of painful training, I imagine. Yeah.

Yeah, there's also some nice trainings. It's not always painful. But, yeah, of course, as endurance athletes, we have days. We ride six, seven hours, also without intervals. And then it can be a long day. So, yeah, most of the time I try to get a group with some friends and then it goes by a bit faster. And when you're doing it with your friends, are they as talented as you are?

Or are you kind of figure out a way to do it? No, the people I train with most of the time when I'm in Spain, yeah, they're all professionals or a really good level, so they don't have too much trouble keeping up. It's not that we go all out every training. So it's nice sometimes you just enjoy the scenery, enjoy the sport you're doing and just talk a bit and laugh on the bike and stop for coffee, of course, somewhere. And it goes by a bit quicker. Now, it hasn't all been up into the right for you. you had a setback at the Tour de France where you got pneumonia. Yeah.

Talk a little bit about that experience. Yeah, it was not so nice. So I've already had a hate love relationship with the Tour de France, I would say. So it's not been always super successful. And this year it finally was successful again. But then, yeah, I got sick and that was a hard one to take. I was really motivated to make it a nice end to the Tour de France as well, especially with the last stage, suiting me very well.

But yeah, that's something. When you get older, it's a bit easier to digest this because, yeah, that's part of sports. You have up and downs and it makes you appreciate the good moments even more. Is there a learning in that? Like, do you think back on anything you could have done differently? Or is it just bad luck getting pneumonia? Yeah, it's always difficult to say. I mean, the tour is such a big event.

You come in contact with a lot of people, so it's difficult to say where you got sick. but I think we already try to manage it as good as possible. But yeah, there's always a chance of getting sick, of course. What's up, folks, if you are enjoying this podcast, or if you care about health, performance, fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop. That's right. You can check out whoop at whoop.com.

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You've been part of the same team for a while with Christoph and Philip Rudhoof for most of your career. I mean, that's pretty unique. Most of the time, riders are changing teams. How did you end up sticking with these guys? So I got bikes from them when I was 16, first time, and then professional since 18, so already more than 12 years professional within the team.

I think it's just my personality and how I am. I function best when I'm with friends and people I trust and it feel more like friends and family than really my bosses in their case. So I also perform well. I have everything I need to perform well, so I didn't really see anything to change that. I think there's something to be said for that.

I mean, American sports have a real problem with continuity. You see sports teams like NFL teams or whatever. It's like every year or two years, they're changing the head coach, they're bringing in a whole new staff. And I think there is something to be said for like real continuity. Yeah, I like it. Also with partnerships, for example, I think it's really nice. And yeah, also with the team, they stood by me in bad moments as well. And that's something.

I also don't forget. It's going to be nice at the end of my career. I probably will end it in the same team as well, so it's a cool, cool story. What's your favorite race? I think tour of Flanders. And why? Yeah, from the first time I did it, I really loved it. It just, it suits me well.

The atmosphere is, yeah, it's crazy. And it's just, I think in classic races together with Paris Rube, it's just, for me, it's the biggest races I can win. It's also the races you watch when you grow up, when you're a kid. So that's the thing I always dreamed of and to make it happen. That's just, it's unique. I think you might say the Paris race, which you've had quite successful. Yeah, yeah, this is.

The thing is with Parirubis, there is nothing like it. It's, yeah, so hard with all the cobblestones. Also with the villodrome, it makes it a super unique finish venue. And everybody, because you come from cyclocross and all people that come from cycle cross, they want to do Parirubé because they say it comes closest to cycle cross, which I don't really agree with. But yeah, it is unique. Yeah, maybe also the hardest one day race. It's known as the hell of the north. Yeah. And you've won it the last three years, 23, 24, 25. Do you feel like enormous satisfaction from winning or is it sort of another

stepping stone? No. This races like this, they will always be special. They say you never get used to winning, but I think you do a little bit, but not in these kind of races. Also this year when I won San Remo again, which is maybe the most difficult race to win on the, like, one-day races. Yeah, the feeling you have there, it's, I always say it's a bit of pity that it's just, it's a moment, and before you know it, it's over. I try to enjoy it more and more the older I get. And, yeah, one day I will not be on the bike anymore and competing, so I just try to make

the best out of it and enjoy it while I can. You seem to have a generally like positive disposition on things. I mean, I've met a lot of professional athletes and they, they have, I think, a range of sort of a mental attitude. And yours feel is quite upbeat and positive. Yeah, I think it's also because with the journey I had, it's already way more than I ever expected. So for me, my career is, yeah, like I said, way more than I could have ever dreamed of. And of course, I still have a few goals I would like to take off. but if that's not the case

I mean it would be easy if you just say I want to win this, this and this and you'll be able to do it in the first year. I think that's also with the mountain biking we spoke about I just have this one goal of trying to become world champion in this discipline I think it's one of the last real goals I have

and that makes it super nice to chase it. Wow, it's pretty terrific. Do you look for inspiration from other athletes, from other disciplines? You know, you mentioned podcast that you listen to, like where do you find your curiosity pulls you? Yeah, I think it's always nice to look at other sports as well. So with golf, for example, which I started doing a few years ago, and this is maybe the opposite of what I do on the bike, but it's so difficult.

It's a sport you'll never master, I think, and that's also something that makes it so exciting. Every round of golf is different and every shot is different, and that's just something that makes it really nice to enjoy. for me. Do you have favorite golfers you like watching or even getting to meet? I'm a big fan of the sport in general. So even at the Ryder Cup, I was just enjoying the event and I just watch because I love the sport. And of course, yeah, with Whoop, you know, McElroy is a great ambassador as well. Totally. I was lucky to follow him yesterday, a few holes. So that's a super cool experience. In general,

it's just the sport that attracts me. And if you see how good these guys are in real life, it's it's impressive. It's so impressive how good they are. One thing that was cool about the Ryder Cup, because you mentioned Whoop, is we were doing like the live heart rate broadcast. Did you see some of that? Yeah, I saw it. Now, with you guys, we've done very in-depth analysis where you're sharing strain and recovery, you're showing your heart rate during the raise. What's it like sharing that much data? I don't really mind it, to be honest. I've always been someone that It's not super strict on sharing data. Yeah, of course, other people and competitors can learn a bit from it,

but it will not make the difference in my opinion. I think that's a great attitude. I think that there's this sort of weird thing that I hear from a lot of athletes. They're like, oh, if I share this, like, you know, it's going to be this advantage for the other team or, you know, I don't want people to know I'm nervous. It's like, well, everyone's kind of nervous at times, you know? Yeah, for sure.

And some athletes are really strict about it. and for me, I never had a big problem with it. Well, we appreciate it. I had this vision for WOOP Live really from the earliest days of starting the company because there was so much about this idea of having the world's best athletes wear Woop and have that be this sort of way of creating a performance brand. But one of the things that I thought was so powerful is if you, the everyday person, could compare your own data to Matthew Vanderpuller,

or Rory McElroy or Michael Phelps or Christiana Ronaldo, right, and sort of see how you're comparing. And Whoop Live is the way of doing that in a broadcast setting. You know, if you think about broadcast television for sports, what's the big difference between broadcast today and 25 years ago? I mean, for the most part, it's just better pixelation, like better cameras. But not that much has changed or innovated about that broadcast. And so to come up with something that feels very different and inserted in sports and then have it feel like it's pulling into creating that bridge between what's going on inside a professional athlete's body and how do you feel?

I mean, one of the things that's wild about seeing, I don't know, Justin Thomas's heart rate get to 100 and, I think it got to 150 beats per minute when he made that put on 18. Yeah. I mean, for you to get to 150 beats per minute, what do you have to be doing? Like you have to be... I have to push quite hard on the bike already, yes, or run quite fast.

But that's the thing with golf as well, the mental aspect. Totally. That's something so different to be focused for the 18 or the 36 holes they do on a tournament like Ryder Cup. That's something that is really underestimated. Yeah, like you said, the thing is if you can raise the heart rate like this on a put

while you're actually doing not a really physical activity, that's crazy. Yeah, it's pretty. unbelievable. How low is your resting heart rate? I think the average is 38. The lowest I had is 34, I think, on whoop recorded. That's so low. Yeah, so that's really low. But I think this is something a lot of endurance athletes have. The heart is really well trained. So in general, I think cyclists are quite low on the heart rate. Yeah, I mean, it's a sign of enormous endurance. The highest H.RV.s and lowest dressing heart rates I've seen have been from

cyclists, swimmers, runners, tends to be endurance athletes. Yeah, I think that's also what I see. And also with friends around me, I think it's indeed correct. Now, your body looks very proportionally strong. And I've also seen some cyclists where it's almost like two different halves of a body. You know what I mean? Their lower half is just all muscle. And then their upper half almost looks like very skinny.

Yeah, maybe sometimes I wish I was a bit more skinny and less muscles as well on the upper body. But with cyclecross and mountain bike, of course, you need this. And also with the back problems I had in the past, I had to go a bit more to the gym to try and get rid of it. And I think it developed me a bit more as a total athlete. I got stronger, but I also gained a bit of weight, which is fine by me and by the things do because like I said, I will never be the best climber in the world. I can lose a few kilograms to try and be a bit better uphill, but I will never beat the best ones. So I choose to just focus on what I'm doing best in that is races like Paris Rube and Tour of Fauners where one kilogram is not

going to make the difference. Sure. So that's what I try to focus on. Yeah, and you probably just feel a lot better. Yeah, I've been doing it for four years now. I tried to go to the gym twice a week. I started to love it, but I just need to do it. I feel when I don't do it, like now I'm resting, I don't go to the gym, and I just feel my body is getting weaker again. So, yeah, it's going to hurt the first time I go back in a few weeks, but I just know it's a process and I need it. It's interesting, I think also there's something to doing things that you get better at.

You know, weightlifting is something where you know what you lifted last week in the week before. And, like, as you see the numbers slowly go up, like, it's motivating. Yeah, it's super motivating, yeah. And also, yeah, the soreness is going away. Like, the first time you do it, you cannot walk for a week. But if you do it regularly, you can even do it a day before a big training on the bike and you just still feel good on the bike the day after.

So that's the most important thing for me, especially with gym, but maybe also on the bike, but with gym especially, the consistency is super important for the soreness because otherwise you never get used to it. So I try to do it all year round. Of course, some periods you have to do it a bit less, some a bit more. But I try to maintain it throughout the year. What will your weightlifting routine look like? It's mostly squatting, deadlifting, single leg squats, stuff like this.

And of course, a lot of core stability, lower back abs, stuff like this. How many reps do you target? I try to do four times eight with the weightlifting. So with the squats and everything. And sometimes, so I try to build up like this and then I try to go a bit lower and higher in weight sometimes. It depends on how I feel what I have to do on the bike the next day. Or if I run during winter, I also try to do some run specific exercises to not get injured. My trainer has me go through these different phases.

So you'll be like in a hypertrophy phase and you're doing like 12 to 15 reps. And then you'll be in a like a strength phase. You'll get down to five wraps. Yeah. It's interesting to how different those feel on your body. Yeah, for sure. And the funny thing is most people think with high weight and low reps, you'll feel the most soreness. But for me, it's with more reps I do.

And even without weight sometimes, I can be so sore today after. So it's funny how the body reacts and also adapts to gym. And the high rep stuff is really painful in real time. Yes. Whereas the big weight I find kind of feels good actually. Yeah, yeah. You do like three reps, a big deadlift. You feel like invincible.

Looking forward, what gets you excited about the seasons ahead? Goals are a bit the same as they are the last few years, building up, doing some cyclicals during winter, and then, yeah, target the big races again in spring season. You've got a storied rivalry with Wout Van Art. Yeah, already a long time. Does that motivate you, or is it just another thing? No, it motivates me. I think it's always good to have a fierce competitor who brings you to another level.

Also makes you aware that you need to do everything 100% correct to try and beat him on the weekend. So for sure, it brought not only me, I think, also him to the level we are as of today. Keeps you sharp, right? You think about competing not just, you know, four hours or eight hours a day, but it comes 24-7. 100%. I mean, if you would win every race with two minutes in advance, I think it would be easy to say during the week, maybe I'll skip this gym session. I don't need it or I'll do one rep less or one interval less on the bike because,

you know, I have so much advantage that it's not really necessary. But I think if you have a competitor that is really, yeah, almost equal and maybe you do one rep extra just to make sure to get better. Make sure you're going to take them. Yeah, it pushes me to my limits. That reminds me, do you have a very focused diet? Not really. I'm not the guy who weighs the food, but of course, yeah, I'm doing it for so long.

I know what is good for me and what is bad for me. I know the portions I have to eat, but I'm not super fixed on it. What are things that you won't eat? Yeah, of course, alcohol during the season is something I try to avoid. Sometimes I drink one glass of wine, for example, on Sunday evening, but I will never drink too much during the season and food-wise. I think it's important sometimes to also eat what you want, but of course not every day and I think the basics that everybody know is fried food chocolate chips

I think these are things I try to avoid a bit during the season that makes sense in your in your whoop journal are there things that you track red meat red meat you avoid yes red meat I really see and also the thing but that's also something maybe people know but eating late before I really try to eat early in the evening makes a big difference on my sleep as well I've talked to F1 drivers who focus a lot on visualization, like they can see the race before the race. Do you have a similar phenomenon or it's less relevant in your sports? Yeah, of course, we do recon of the courses as well, so we know what to expect. But I try not to think too much about the race or race scenarios because there's so many things

that happen during a race that if you make a plan, there's a big chance you won't be able to perform or do according to the plan that's been discussed. So I think it's very important to just feel the race situation and go on instinct when something happens. Makes sense. Okay, we're going to go to a little rapid fire here. I'm going to ask you some questions. You give me the first thing that comes to mind here. Okay, we got some true or false.

True or false, you're the best cyclist in your family. True. I would say maybe my granddad, but it's a different generation, also a different type of rider. but well and you you do have an impressive family of cyclists right because your father was a great cyclist and grandfather your brother's competed yeah did that make becoming a great cyclist easier you think yeah for sure it helps if you have somebody who knows yeah how to do it it's a bit easier on a young age already i was quite stubborn and tried to do my own things and stuff so i've always been like this and i think it also helped me become the writer i am today okay true or false a successful breakaway is

about the timing of the move than the strength of the rider. False. If you're, I already saw some dumb breakaways, but just because the riders are so strong, they pull it off. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. True or false? You've learned more about your body from setbacks than from your biggest victories. False. I also learned a lot about the biggest victories than you know what preparation suits you best and what you have to do to be in this shape. I'm glad you said that because there's a phenomenon. on in technology companies where people celebrate failure a lot and they talk about how much you should learn from failure. But the reality is that if you start a company from scratch, there's

like a 5 to 10% chance that the company is going to be successful. So like 90% of the companies fail. And I think that there's actually therefore more to learn from the 10% that's successful. For sure. Like what did it actually take to be successful? You always look at the best. to learn. So I do think there's an element of like it can be a little bit overrated actually focusing on failure versus learning from success. Yeah, I agree. True or false? Your favorite way to recover on an off day is on the golf course. True. Favorite music genre. Oh, that's difficult. I listen to so many different types of music. It depends the situation. I mean, of course, when you have to do intervals,

you take a bit of hardcore music or something with more of a beating than you just go for an easy ride. If you can only do cold plunging or sauna for the rest of your life. That's a really difficult question. I think I would take the sauna.

I'm trying to think what I would do. I've kind of gotten addicted to both of them. And I feel like they go together. I have the same. The combination is what makes it super nice, of course. Is there any recovery technique that you like more than contrast therapy? Not really, no.

I think, of course, yeah, massage is something really important. This is something I do very often as well. But I think apart from massage, I think son I am like the cold plunge is for me also one of the best ways to recover. Okay, what about massage or contrast therapy? Then I go for massage. You keep massage? Yes.

Yeah, I think that makes sense, especially in your profession. Yeah, it's just so. so important in cycling that I will always pick massage above the therapies. Well, Matt, this has been a real pleasure. Grateful to have you as a partner on WOOP. Thank you. We've got a couple golf tournaments, I think, in our future together. We're going to go win with that 13 handicap of yours.

I keep it at 13. Yeah. No, but congratulations on everything. And I'm sure the best is yet to come. Thank you. Honor to be here. If you enjoyed this episode of the Woop podcast, please leave a rating or review. Check us out on social at Woop at Will Ahmed.

If you have a question was answered on the podcast, email us, podcast at Woop.com. Call us 508-443434952. If you think about joining Woop, you can visit Woop.com. Sign up for a free 30-day trial membership. New members to use the code Will, W-I-L, to get a $60 credit on W-A-W-accessaries when you enter the code at checkout. That's a wrap, folks. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast. as always, stay healthy and stay in the green.