WHOOP Podcast - Inside The Mindset of A Secret Service Agent with Rachel Otto

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

On this week’s episode of the WHOOP Podcast, WHOOP Global Head of Human Performance, Principal Scientist, Dr. Kristen Holmes sits down with Rachel Otto, the first female operator of the United States Secret Service Counter Assault Team. Rachel recounts her journey from playing Division I volleyball at The Citadel, to her experience in law enforcement, becoming a federal agent in New York City, and protecting various heads of state. Rachel shares what it takes to protect the President and Vice President, from maintaining elite readiness for split-second decision making to managing sleep consistency across time zones. Dr. Holmes and Rachel breakdown the recovery, fitness, and discipline needed to thrive in a highly demanding, high-stakes job. (00:47) Meet Rachel Otto: First Female United States Secret Service Counter Assault Agent(02:57) Skillset & Training Of A Counter-Assault Agent(05:06) WHOOP Podcast Rapid Fire Questions(06:00) Rachel’s Experience at The Citadel(12:03) Operating In A Male-Dominated Field & Adapting To Environments (14:27) Rachel’s Experience as a Law Enforcement Officer(16:22) The Mental Aspect: How To Stay Focused In A High Stress Environment(18:55) Crucial Lifestyle Choices To Show Up As A Federal Agent(24:05) Becoming a Federal Agent(27:51) Maintaining Consistency and Discipline (37:45) What It's Like Protecting The President(41:54) Circadian Rhythm, Sleep & Tracking Metrics(50:39) Rachel’s Training: CrossFit, Hyrox, and Exercise Snacks(59:02) Advice For Young Girls Getting Into The FieldSupport the showFollow WHOOP: Sign up for WHOOP Advanced Labs Trial WHOOP for Free www.whoop.com Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

Every day you wake up, you're in a situation where, like, you could legitimately die that day. How does one wrap their mind around that? It's just something you don't think about. I'm not seeking life or death every day, but I know what comes with a job, and I like that. It's more about I like helping people or protecting people. This is what I want to do. This is what I like to do. I'm where I'm at because I wanted to be here.

But I know my capabilities, and I know that it was something that I could do. If you want to do it, do it. But, like, know your capabilities and be the best version of yourself and just know, like, you are going to maybe have to try a little bit harder. But it's worth it. Rachel Otto. Welcome. Thank you. To the Woot Podcast.

So excited. This has been kind of a long time coming. Yes. I've wanted to talk to you in this format for a very long time. I am like super self-conscious that I have chosen to wear a sleeveless shirt today because there's just a direct comparison and I'm like there is a great comparison you're just like they're going to tell me to cover up after they see you so you have it's so funny because I was like I was like Rachel I really want to talk to you on the Woot Podcast I think our listeners would be absolutely fascinated by your career and you're like what are you talking about like? Like, I have the most boring job ever. You know, I just go about my life. And, like, it's hard to think that, you know, I just, I do it for me and my family.

So it's hard to think anything, like, outside of that, you know. And our country. I thank you for. Well, I want people to hear your story because, you know, I think you're in a profession that is typically male dominated. So you've broken lots of barriers in that regard. And I think, you know, just for me selfishly, even, you know, my daughter. Water is looking to kind of go into, I think, a very male-dominated world, you know, the military, and I think having role models like yourself is just so vital. So why don't you tell our listeners

what you do? So I work for the United States Secret Service and I'm on the counter assault team. And basically, I protect the president and the vice president and other heads of state 24-7. So I'm always on the move. Is it safe to say that you are the first female? It is safe to say that on the counter assault team. I am. Yes. What does counter assault mean? In layman's terms, it's we are the emergency action or like the EA team for the president. So sometimes to kind of dumb it down, I just like to say like the SWAT team for the president. Like we're the tactical element in an emergency exigent circumstances that he needs to move or something like that. you know we'll get them out what are the range of skills that you need to have in order to

protect the president anything from physical fitness to mental sharpness to being able to think quick to uh tactics it's a it's a huge scope of abilities really and tactical includes close quarters combat, shooting, being able to provide, like, basic medical assistance, correct, to others or the president or the vice president or their heads of state. How often do you have to kind of train those various skills? Because, you know, it's kind of like just at a very basic level, like, my CPR ran out. I need to get that again. So you must be just literally constantly fine-tuning these skills. How does that training fit into your day?

So we, because we cover heads of state and protect these 24 hours a day, seven days a week, there's a certain schedule that we follow that's like, you know, two weeks of days, two weeks of eaves, two weeks of mids, you know, stuff like that. And then training is kind of throughout that. Okay. And, you know, we have certain qualifications during each quarter that we have to complete for firearms, for physical fitness standards. And then we'll always have during some sort of our training, like a medical capability.

responsibilities recertification or stuff like that. So it's like it's constant throughout the year, every year. Okay. So. All right. We're going to get into like the nitty gritty on exactly what it is that you're due from a training perspective and recovery and sleep. Because you, the demands of your job, and this is why I was so eager to talk to you, just blow me away, you know, in terms of of the travel. Right. And, and the demands on you physically and mentally and emotionally. You're a mom of Two. You know, you have two young children, a seven-year-old and a three-year-old. And, you know, and you have a husband. And, you know, so you're kind of navigating, I think, what is, again, one of the more demanding jobs on the planet that have really high stakes with all this. So we're going to dig into how you do that. First, a rapid ice breaker. Yes. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. True or false. You've had to make a life or death decision in under five seconds. True.

yes or no you've executed a mission with less than four hours of sleep yes very often that's like kind of the defaults unfortunately yeah true or false tactical success often comes down to staying calm not just being fast very true yes or no you can feel your heart rate shift before you even engage yes true trusting your team matters more than trusting your gear agree with that one. Yeah. With that said, team is, and gear is very important. Yeah.

But yes. Yeah. Your gear, you need to have confidence in your gear. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I can see that, that. We'll talk more about that. Okay, so you went to the Citadel. Yes.

What is the Citadel? The Citadel is a military college in South Carolina. I got a volleyball scholarship, so I played volleyball there for four years. I didn't always. You were the captain? I was. You would never say that. Yes.

No, I wouldn't. I started there in 2005 and females had just started going there. I think 1999 was the first female at the Citadel. So we were, our class was only six years into having women at the Citadel. Definitely a difficult experience, but I wouldn't take it back for the world. And playing sports definitely helped with that. Obviously, all females on my team. So we were all going through it together. Yeah. And definitely some great guys and guys that I still talk to at the Citadel. And it never really was about, and even to the state, it's never about being a woman. I kind of forget that some days, you know. I just do my job and I want to do it just as the men are doing it because at the end of

the day, that's what matters. And I want them to trust me. And that was the same thing at the Citadel. It's like I can do what you're doing and I can play volleyball and play sports and, you know, it was a great experience and I don't take it back. Yeah. Yeah. What did you learn about leadership there? Who, I learned a lot about leadership, specifically on the volleyball team, especially once I was not a freshman anymore and I moved up and then became a captain on the volleyball team. and all the freshmen were coming in and kind of having that same feeling that I was having, you know? And just that you really have to lead by example. Like, it's kind of like with my

kids. Like, they're going to do what I do. And if I show that I'm nervous or that, you know, I'm scared to go back to the battalion at night because I'm going to get yelled at, then they're going to feel that way. And so I think lead by example is just the biggest thing that I've learned. And I was young then, too. So, like, leadership meant a lot because I wanted the girls on the team to trust me. But being so young, I think that's kind of, like, in the back of your mind. And, like, as you get older, you're like, man, I really should have done things different, you know? But it definitely, those four years at the Citadel shaped me for my future, which is kind of how I got here, you know, and just, like, tough situations. Yeah, totally.

I mean, you had a lot of choices, presumably, you know, you could have played volleyball. You know, you heard Division I athletes, so you probably had other Division I schools who were recruiting you. And, I mean, Citadel at the time especially was a really hard choice in the sense that, yeah, six years had, they had only had females in at that institution for six years. So they don't have a lot of repetitions with women. There was a lot fewer women relative to in terms of ratio, men to women. So what made you kind of choose that path? Because that's a hard path. It is. So my sister went to West Point. And she has always been kind of like my role model. I've always wanted to be in law enforcement. And so I didn't at that point want to commit to the military. And the Citadel is it's a four-year military school, but you don't have to go into the military. And I visited a few other colleges for volleyball. And the Citadel recruited me. And I went down there, it's Charleston, South Carolina, which is gorgeous.

And I came back one day and like a week later, I just told my parents, I was like, I want to go to the Citadel. I just, I want to do it. And I'm pretty sure my dad started crying because, you know, in high school, you know, we were so alike and we butted heads and they were static. And I just, I really wanted to do something different than every other's. And again, that's kind of like where my path turned. And I was like, I don't want to do just what everybody else is doing. You know, I don't want to go party. there's nothing wrong with people that make that decision, but that wasn't the right decision for me, but the Citadel was. Like I said, I enjoyed it for four years. It sounds like it was a place where you could be kind of the truest version of yourself. Yes. Yeah, which is such an amazing realization at that age. And it's not for everybody, right? Some people come after their first year and they're like, I don't want to do this. And you know, you can't fault

them. Like, you have to make the best decision for yourself. And really, every year is tough there in different ways, but obviously your knobbears the hardest. And back then we had to cut, we had to cut, yes, year one. We had to cut our hair. I think, I don't know exactly. I think it had to be like three inches on the top and one inch on the sides. Like, I looked like a guy. And I didn't know that going in because, again, my sister going to West Point, they can have their hair, just has to be in a bun above their collar. And so I show up day one. My sister loves telling the story, but I show up day one and we go into the battalion and we sign in and then we have to go through all these little things and we go to the barber and it is a barber and I just remember him like brushing my hair back and then like cutting my hair with like skinny little scissors and I walk around like on the parade deck and my my family was walking by me and they're like my sister's crying because she's like I look different and I just it's it's just a different experience and now they can wear their hair. It can be as long as you want it as long as it's in a bun above your collar, like military standards.

So that was different, too. So it took me three, yeah, and it took me three, four years to actually grow my hair back out, you know? And so it was like awkward stages and, yeah. I'm just glad that's changed for the better because that was an awkward stage of hair for me. I mean, it's great that everyone else has to go through it too. Oh, yeah. So you're not a living. But that was like one of the, like, challenges, you know, and it's like, okay, it's just hair.

It'll grow back, you know, whereas. Some people are like, I don't want to do this. I need my hair, you know? And for me, it was like, whatever. You know, I'm here for a reason. What does it like to be an environment? And this has been literally your entire career. You know, you went from Citadel and we'll talk about law enforcement.

You were boots on the ground. You were a police officer, narcotics, federal agent, now protecting the president. So you've, you know, you've just been in a scenario where there are just very few females. I think it's like one of those things where I think women, in these environments. I'm kind of in a similar inner exercise physiology is very male-dominated. Technology is very male-dominated. I kind of find myself in very male-dominated, you know, environments as well. And I do think there is this kind of need to kind of prove yourself. You know, there is, I think, a pressure and a mindset to that that I think can be adaptive and

it also can be maladaptive. And it's kind of frustrating that that's the case. But maybe just talk through how you think about that. So I totally agree with you. Like I feel like you do always have to prove yourself. All four years of the Citadel, you know, you stand out just because you're not just like everybody else. Kind of like I said earlier is like if I don't think about it, like as me being a female, it's easier for me to get through.

And I've always kind of had that mindset, like just do what they're doing and then they can't really say anything to you, you know? Like, whatever their standards are, just complete the standards. And then there's nothing they can say to you. You know, there's no leverage there for them because you've done everything they've done. And I really do enjoy, and this is just my experiences. I've never had any, like, horrible experiences with men in my fields. They've all been very supportive.

And maybe that is to the fact that, like, I just do what they do. You've met the standard. I've met the standard. And I... So it'd be pretty shitty at them. if they didn't accept you. Correct, right? And, you know, at that point, if they say something, it's like, okay, you just don't like me.

And that's fine. But, like, I can do the job. And I also kind of know my limits, right? Like, I'm not trying to do things that I know I can't do just because I'm a woman. You know, like, oh, I want to do this because there's no women in here and, like, you're going to have to let me do it. I do things that I know that I'm capable of doing and that I want to do and that I'm there for the right reasons.

Like, like I said, all the guys have just been great. and um are there any other women on the counter assault team there are not wow yeah it's just you just me so you went so you graduate uh citadel and you go into law enforcement yes so you are a young officer in charleston south carolina yes what was that like oh so um first big girl job you know like not mooching off my parents and living on my own and, you know, kind of starting my career path. And again, the Citadel has set me up for leadership, being able to talk to people, being able to chain of command. You know, there's still people in the workforce that really don't have like a direct chain of command. And so having that at the Citadel was nice.

Now when I transitioned to being a police officer and like knowing my chain of command and kind of like that structure because a lot of people don't get that structure in college. You know, they just go to college. What does that look like? You know, it's like if I have an issue who to go to next instead of, hey, I'm just going to go straight up or like I'm going to start complaining to other officers or like, you know what I mean, stuff like that. Just like an etiquette? Correct.

That you learn that might not be as obvious in just a random college kind of environment. Learning how to talk to people, learning how to talk to people that are higher ranking than you or that, you know, deserve that respect or, um, so that kind of helped me when I became a police officer. And I was there for seven, almost eight years. And I loved it. It definitely shaped me who I am today. Again, like learning how to talk to people, learning how to deal with a community. And, uh, I made a lot of great friends and, um, quick decision making. After, I think, five, six years, I went into narcotics, and I loved it there. I loved you're a detective.

And, yeah, after that, I decided to apply to be federal. So I could have stayed there forever. I definitely enjoyed it a lot. I just knew I wanted more. Every day you wake up, you're in a situation where, like, you could legitimately die that day. How does one wrap their mind around that? Or is it something you just don't even think about? It's just something you don't think about.

Like I, I wouldn't say an adrenaline junkie. I'm not going to go like cliff diving, you know, like that extreme. You're not seeking. I'm not seeking life or death every day, but I know what comes with the job. And I like that. It's more about I like helping people or protecting people. You know, like that's just kind of like how I feel inside. So I don't even really think about it.

I just like, this is what I want to do. This is what I like to do. And I just go in every day, you know, knowing that something could happen, obviously, but how do you, it's comfortable? You know, I always feel like, you know, safety is kind of an illusion. You know, the only thing that makes you safe is competence. Talk a little bit about how you build competency to be able to have the mindset that you have when you're on the street.

I like to say, like, it's always about like a 360 view. Like, you know, even when I'm out with my family, just like always being aware of your surroundings and um that's a good life principle anyway right yeah just like you know people always on their phone nowadays yeah i know you're so vulnerable i know so vulnerable and it can happen to anybody um i must get hit by a bike the other day because i was like on my damn phone trying to i mean i was just trying to go through my music trying to find you know all it takes is like one second you know and people talk about the job and like oh my god your life death situations i'm like you can walk outside and cross the street and get hit by a bus you know i mean like obviously it's a

dangerous job, but everybody needs to be aware of what's happening in the world and just pay attention. And again, just being competent, knowing what you're getting into and like waking up, not being complacent. Like, you know, anything can happen at any time, you know, and just being aware. I feel like there's like a, so everything that you've done basically is training you to have a mindset to be able to kind of feel confident that you are going to be able to be able to have the skills to keep yourself safe. Correct. I guess that's like in other people.

That's like quite a, you know, not, not a, some people would think it's kind of a burden, you know, I mean, it's a responsibility of your shoulder, which is a great one. You know, like, because you always have to, some people always have to think about it. I feel like it just kind of like comes, you know, like, especially as you have kids or, you know. Just this perspective. Just a perspective. Yeah. Correct.

So when you think about like all of the lifestyle kind of choices that you have to make to kind of show up and be in a situation where you can protect yourself and protect others, what are some things that you prioritize? And how has me that moved? You know, because you were a young officer and then, you know, kind of detective and then, and then we'll kind of talk about that transition from a detective to counter assault. But kind of how did, how did you think about, you know, all these lifestyle things that you kind of know really well now? What was your understanding of some of these like recovery and sleep and nutrition and training? Like, what was your understanding of that, like, leaving the Citadel.

Well, it didn't always, I wasn't always perfect, and especially in college when you're 22, 23, and you can eat anything you want and sleep on the floor for three hours and, you know, feel great and just pop up and be fine. And even at the Citadel, like, the beds weren't comfortable. Like, we're not getting a lot of sleep. We're traveling for volleyball, like really early practices. And just kind of like as you get older, I mean, just in life, you realize, like, you can't survive off of five hours of sleep and eating pizza and drinking coax and, you know, going out

and staying up late. And I've always worked since I was in law enforcement shift work. So I've never worked a at a desk other than when I was a detective, but even then we're just out. But like I've never worked like a Monday through Friday 9 to 5. It's always been shift work. So prioritizing the sleep when I can get it or even when I'm on midnights and I'm sleeping during the day, like blackout curtains. And I've always been, my dad was an athlete, my brother's an athlete, my sister's an athlete. I'm an athlete. And so my dad has always kind of like harped on eating healthy, you know, as much as he can get into us when we're young until now. And just like working out and being fit. And, you know, my dad was making me do pull up. So when I was a

teenager and he would take us to go swim. And he was just, he was very involved in that. And so we've kind of always had that mindset. And it's nice to have an older brother and older sister that we're into sports, you know. And then just now, like, even with shift work, just, I don't know we've had this conversation, like 30 extra minutes of sleep, you know. Makes a difference. Makes a huge difference. And it just makes me feel better. And obviously evolving now to having kids and their sleep schedules and, you know, my husband's a firefighter and, like, trying to get on that kind of path.

But as I get older, it's like, that stuff is so important. And it just makes me feel so much better. And then, and just like workouts have evolved. Like, I've always worked out. If I can fit in a 30-minute workout, a 10-minute workout in a hotel, we're traveling. Yeah. I just feel so much better. Yeah.

And I, you know, it's funny. I know a lot of our listeners, and even myself, you know, I kind of used to think that if I didn't have time to have a consolidated workout in a gym for an hour, it didn't count, you know, like it didn't counter. or but same like I'm just like whatever I can get in when whenever I can get it in I just do it if that's even like I just like literally I was at my desk and I have like a kettlebell and you know it's 44 pounds or something so I was just like literally holding on like just basically changing hands like little yeah I'm standing stationary in a meeting but I was just kind of holding on working out my grip strength yeah and so it's just like you just have to figure out when you're busy you just figure out like just put it into your day at like random intervals and there's so many programs. that, you know, you can, eight-minute programs that you can do that. And you can go on to Instagram and follow anybody. And they post, you know, all sorts of great ideas.

Totally. And you can just go buy one dumbbell, you know, and just do something. And I've always, it's hard, it's been a hard transition into that because of being an athlete and working out two or three times a day in college, you know, having two a days and then having a strength training and having a strength and conditioning coach. that's like putting me through stuff and then graduating and then being like, oh, man, I have to do this on my own now, you know. But having been set up with that, it's easier, which is kind of how I got into CrossFit. And I know we were going to, you know, we'll touch on that too. And then now kind of evolving into like just whatever I can get, you know, and like being okay with that. But then what comes with that is nutrition and sleep, you know, because when you're working out three times a day and have a strength and conditioning coach and you're eating whatever at 22 years old. Like, you'll see results. You're just trying to get in as many calories as you can at that point.

Correct. It doesn't matter what you eat and you're 22. Yeah. And, you know, now you just have to be more conscious about it, even if you only get a 30-minute workout in just to feel better. What's up, folks? If you are enjoying this podcast or if you care about health, performance, fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop. That's right. You can check out whoop at whoop.com. It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain.

and you can now sign up for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just at whoop.com. Back to the guests. So you go from detective and you apply for the agency to the agency. Obviously, it's super competitive. They probably start your application.

I was like, oh, my God, this is a dream. maybe I don't know what happens once did you just get a call and yeah so I in I want to say in 2013 the federal government kind of had a little freeze and a lot of guys that I worked with were applying and they weren't hearing anything for like a year or two years and I was like well my best friend was like just apply and see what happens and I was like okay it'll probably be a year or two which is great because I had just recently got into narcotics and I was like I love it you know But I didn't have any kids at the time. And I was like, well, if we're going to do this, like, let's do it.

I think I was 28, 27, 28. I was like, this is the perfect time to do it. And so I applied. And then it only took 11 months quick. Like start to finish. Start to finish. And they called me, I was at work, and they called me at like 4.50 p.m. And they were like, do you want the job?

And they were like, these are your options to move. Yes, literally. And I was like, you realize this is my life and my husband's life. and he is a firefighter, and we can't just leave. And she's like, okay, you have until, I think she even like 8 a.m. the next morning. And I was like, okay. And not my husband at the time, my fiance, or maybe even does my boyfriend. But I told him that I was applying, and I was like, you can come or you can stay.

I'm doing this. I'm doing this. We're doing this. And so we called them back, and we ended up moving to New York. And we were like, well, if we're going to move to New York, let's do it with no kids. So, and I want to say I took, I can't remember the date, I took the job, but two weeks later, him and I got married, so. Wow. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

That's cool. So you're working out of the New York office? Mm-hmm. Okay. I was there for four years. Wow. And what was the role? Like, what was the?

Just investigations. Okay. Yeah. How intense was that? Super busy. Yeah. New York is its own. Yeah.

So criminal investigations? Criminal investigations. Okay. And you still do protection. Were you focused on narcotics? No. So the job now is white collar type stuff, like credit card fraud, cryptocurrency kind of stuff. And so that part of the investigations and like PI type stuff, like protective intelligence and stuff for the protectees.

So all those kind of investigations is kind of what happens in the field offices. So moved to New York. And still worked a lot of protection. So you kind of, that's the interesting thing. It's kind of like it's like a dual, you know, mission. So we do protection and investigations. But right now I'm just doing protection because you kind of go through phases. And so, yeah, I lived four years in Brooklyn and actually really liked it.

Yeah. Different, different way of life. What was different in terms of what it required from you mentally and physically than the previous job? The difference is it's a lot, it's a lot of. I did a lot of in-town stuff, so I didn't travel as much then, which was nice, but we still worked a lot. It's weird, like, just going from, like, a local cop, local law enforcement to federal agent because you feel like you just have more eyes on you.

Like, this is what you do now, and people are, like, even more people are looking up to you and, like, think what you do is cool and, like, you know, all eyes are on you. You always have to imagine that there's a camera where somebody's recording you or going to ask you questions or, you know, it's just, it's just a different level. You just can't make any mistakes. Correct. Or at least try not to make any mistakes that people are going to see or hear about. Obviously, you know, I study sleep and recovery and, you know, so I'm kind of in these kind

of data all the time. And I look specifically at high stakes, high stress environments. And, you know, it's, it is pretty crazy to see how executive function really declines when you're not getting the sleep that you need. You know, this is very clear and it's well studied. Everyone knows. What is your perspective? because I, you know, you are a unicorn in a lot of ways, but one of the ways I think that you're

unique is that you're so thoughtful about your sleep and circadian rhythms. You know, like you're as dialed in as you can be, right? Obviously, you are not going to be able to be optimal all the time, but you are able to, I think, to function at a level at a really high level because in your downtime, you're super strategic. How do you think about the people to your left and right, you know, who might not be as dialed in? You know, I mean, I even think about when I was in college, I was kind of annoyed by my teammates, you know, like, would go out and stay, you know, like I was like really, um, super disciplined and I like, I didn't go out that money, you know, like, right. And I think in those environments, you know, maybe it's not as appropriate to be

judgmental, but I feel like in your environment, like the standard needs to be really high for folks. How do you think about that as a leader now on the counter assault team? Do you have the ability to convey those kind of standards, downtime standards? So they can show up and protect in the way that they need to. So you know what I'm getting it. I know what you're getting at. So not directly, but I will say that there are a good number of guys that do wear a whoop and are very interested in their and dedicated to their sleep and recovery

and showing up on their A game. Obviously, not everybody. But the good thing about my team is that we are all pretty fit. and we all like to work out. A lot of guys have young kids just like we do. So obviously there's that. But I think just now just a shift in kind of the way that people are thinking now more into recovery and sleep. There is a shift.

Alcohol consumption is down 54%. I've heard that from, I think I heard it on the news about two like breweries and wineries and stuff. They're saying like less people just with this generation. are drinking. I don't think we've had some sort of role in that because we've been, you know, like, absolutely. People are like, doesn't this whoop drive you crazy? And I'm like, yeah, but in a good way. Like, you know, if I have, absolutely, like, I have a glass of wine, you know, maybe with

dinner or like a special occasion. And then I'll wake up and be in the yellow. And I look at my husband, I'm like, we're not doing that again. I don't like yellow. I know. But it's, it's held me accountable. I think a lot of the guys on. my team are also kind of have that same mindset, you know, and nobody's perfect. And we do travel a

lot and we are constantly stressed out. And so, and we have team dinners. And it's nice to go out and like relax and kind of have that camaraderie. And like, you know, and I think, I think we're getting better at just doing that minimally. Right. You know. More strategically. More strategically. Yes. And I think the more of us that do it, it kind of like spreads. Yeah. You know. Right. So it's kind of like you're just leading by example. Correct. Like back to back to what, you know, I learned in at the Citadel, you know, is like if I'm using the supplement because it helps me do this, I'm like, hey guys, like try this for your sleep. Right. You know, and they're like, okay, I'll try it. And I think just kind of spreads by like you said, just leading by example, you know. And again, nobody's perfect and I'm not perfect. And we can all have a good time and every once in a while and do that. And I think guys are okay with that. But I think it's definitely trending, though, is just that you have to be strategic. Like you can't just kind of, it's like that work, hard, play hard, like puts actually people in danger. You know, and I think that that's, I feel like it's been interesting for me to like be in these environments over the course of the last nine years, you know, in military operations.

And, you know, and kind of see, I think that the locker room culture kind of actually shift, you know, and that that work hard, play hard. You know, the play hard is like, all right, actually maybe not so much, you know, and I think that's been cool to see. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, I, like I said, there are, we have a little team on our whoop, you know, community, you know, we get to see and like, I message him when I got, I'm like, oh, you only got three hours to sleep, Joe. I'm like, I beat you today.

Like, are you going to work out? Your strain's only four, you know. So that's been like a fun, you know, a little conversation to have. and um i love to hear that yeah it is it's a it's fun that's a like a healthy way to kind of you know keep keep each other accountable and and also just to like check up on someone you absolutely someone's gone five days with like a strain of six like probably means something's wrong you know because like you know it's really strong correlation between strain and depression you know like when you have really low strain like chances of you you know being in a

bad spot or probably really high you're not moving you're not moving you're not sedentary. And that's weird to see for one of our guys who are, like I said, our guys are very physically active and fit. Yeah. Yeah. How do you think about, you know, I think some of these types of professions, like you, it's like you can't, I think it's self-selects. I mean, you're, you're an individual, of course, who is able to self-regulate, don't think take things personally. You have just kind of like characteristics that allow you to be really successful in this job where other folks who are maybe high in certain characteristics or personality traits would not be as suited, right? And that's, I think, all fair.

But how do you think about the mental health piece in this environment? How do you manage, you know, you said you're under stress all the time, you know, like how do you, how do you as a group think about it? Or do you work with someone just to stay proactive in that area? How do you approach? Getting hobbies. Kids obviously help with that just because my son's getting into football and I like to stay busy with that. Yeah. Having a spouse that you enjoy hanging out with. And obviously he's in a high stress work as well in environment. And we do really good like venting to each other and kind of getting that out. But we also do things together outside, you know. And just finding things to do. Like we work out together or I just really. recently got into like a it's like shooting and working out competitions. Oh, nice. And so it kind of

So bathalon kind of is that, yeah, it's like it's called the tactical games and it's like you shoot do a lot of, you kind of do moving and shooting or stagnant shooting and then you lift like sandbags and stuff like that. So like in my lane. Okay, that's great. So you're kind of like training. Correct. But also getting a great workout and connecting with others. Correct. And it's like it's valuable to my job. Yeah. stuff I like to do, but kind of it gives me something to do outside of work and family, but not in a negative way, right? It gives me a little bit of myself. And so finding something like that or like doing a high rocks.

And a lot of the guys at work are into all those kinds of things, which is kind of nice. And some of them are younger than me and I try to keep up with them. And it keeps me like going and competition. And I kind of thrive off of stuff like that. Like when I don't feel like I have something to look forward to or to do, I'm like, okay, like I need something, you know, like a goal and just finding hobbies. And I think that keeps me less stressed. And I kind of pride myself on, I'm very good at like compartmentalizing things.

And I don't think in a negative way. I think just in like when I go to work, I try not to take like emotions from home, right, to work because then I'm not on my A game at work. Or things at work, you know, maybe I go home and. invent, but I try not to like affect my kids' days or my husband's days, although he gets the brunt of it because that's my person, you know, but I think I'm good at kind of like breaking that apart. And so that kind of helps with my stress or just working out or shopping or, you know, I just try to like, I try to stay busy but not too busy. And some people say that I just,

I overcomplicate my schedule or I just like double book and stuff. But like I like to do things. Yeah, yeah. You know, I just like to stay busy. I think that's where you have to be careful of like applying our own biases and our own frameworks for how we think people should be living, you know, what we think should be, you know, contributing to mental health, for example. You know, like you have created a scenario that works for you. Like you've created the conditions that allow you to be super successful at your job, but also be able to maintain relationships and be the parent that you need to be. So, I mean, that's not easy. But I feel like for me, like as I hear you talk, like what I'm I'm really struck by is you seem very clear on what you care about, your values, and you kind of set up a life that allows you to live those values, you know, in a very authentic way. So it's beautiful. Thank you. I think that easy. Yeah. And I get that like just from like my parents, they were married, been married for 45 years. Wow. You know, and they've just always set a great example for me and just kind of like, I mean, they had three kids that played sports and traveling

And, you know, and we've always had just a very, like, you know, mellow, like nothing too complicated. And so we've kind of grown into that. And yeah, that's great. It's just a beautiful foundation that you could just build on. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

Okay. So what's it like to protect the president? Who, stressful. It's kind of a big job. Yeah. Stressful, but awesome. It's a great job. enjoy it. It's different. You know, and like you forget sometimes, like I don't forget my job,

but you just forget how important it is because we just, we do it all the time. How many code names do you have to remember? There's a list. There's a list. Yeah. And you don't use them all the time. So it's like, I have to go back and check sometimes, you know. The dog has a code name. Yeah. Like the dogs have code names. The dogs, the babies. The babies. The whole nine years. Everybody gets a name. Grandma. Grandma, grandpa. niece, nephew. Everybody gets the name. So you've got the president, obviously, that's your primary responsibility. How many other folks do you also have to protect? Or is it literally just that is your, that's the only thing you're thinking about? Well, for my team, that's it.

That's just, that's it. Okay. Just that. And, and first lady. First lady. Yeah. And then there's the family. And then other just protectees. I don't actually know the exact number. But it's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of people. to keep track of? A lot of people to keep track of. And we do heads of state from other countries when they come in, which is what keeps us very busy. Wow. All right. So you have to coordinate protection for them? Because that basically falls under your team and you kind of have to figure out how to position people. Well, not directly my team, but the job in general, our job in general, we have to coordinate that protection for every head of state that comes into our country.

How many threats do you think you are able to stop? A lot. Okay. Yeah. Because we, you know, we don't hear anything. Yeah. I mean, we, you know, like, you know, it's pretty quiet. I mean, and it's not just us.

There's other agencies that are doing all their work, you know. And it's kind of like different levels of the bubble. How many viable threats are there over the course of a year? Hmm. That's kind of a trick question because we get a lot. of, so protective intelligence is for people that make direct threats, and that could be online, that could be verbally, that could be anything. And so we have people that go and investigate that. So it's hard to say whether it's like physically viable, like I'm trying

to come get you or like, hey, I'm just stating this is what I want to do, which could be viable. But like, how many physical viable are there? Because people probably can't even get close enough, really. Right. So you're talking about levels of security, like, you know, tons, several levels of security that they would have to breach in order to. In order to, yeah. I wouldn't say anything's like direct, you know, but everything is different. So in every place and all that kind of stuff.

I don't know if there's an actual number that I. What are the most, so you'll have to go to the destination, the president, is traveling in advance. Correct. And kind of clear it. What is that, how many times a month are you traveling on average? And maybe just talk about like what that, what that kind of cadence, that operational tempo kind of looks like from, you know, like let's say the president's going to Amsterdam or whatever country. How does that look like? So for us, my team, last year, for example, Now, granted, it was campaign year, it was busy. I traveled 175 days of the year.

But that doesn't mean that the days that I wasn't traveling, I wasn't working. It was just those were actual out of district from my home days. Wow. And that can vary. How many of those are out of your own time zone? Probably last year. Hmm, 85%. Damn.

Yeah. It's a lot. And there's some serious circadian rhythm disruption. And that could go from East Coast to West Coast to then like Midwest where it's like two hours and then back to an hour to then three hours. And then you're talking about Okonis trips and stuff like that. When we spoke, I was like a couple months ago when we, you know, we kind of had a call about sleep with circadian rhythms. And my mind was just, I was like, this is quite mental pretzel to try to figure out how to stay. eyes. Yes. You know, your rhythms. And that was really what I wanted to ask you was like,

how do I make this better as much as I can? You know, like, what can I control of this? Because it is hard to, you know, keep your nutrition when you're, you know, sometimes we're traveling and it's like 47 hours where we get, before we get place. I don't even know what time zone I'm in, you know. And then just sleep. Like we're sleeping on planes or. When are your operative? opportunities for sleep. Right. And like how can I help mitigate the repercussions of not eating a full meal in like 24 hours and then not sleeping for, you know, full eight hours, you know. And like, again, like you said, you can figure out a way to do some pushups and stuff like that, you know, the physical fitness part. But sometimes I don't feel like doing that

when I'm traveling because I didn't sleep. You're so damn tired. You're so tired. And you're having to conserve like every last bit of like mental bandwidth to like just operate. And you're like, Okay. So my option is do I eat a McDonald's cheeseburger because that's what they're handing out? Or do I eat nothing? Like what's the better option? You know? And no sleep. You know? It's like trying to figure out like, do I just get. Hold the bun maybe. I don't know. That's what I do. I'm like, I'll just eat the meat. Can you make that a double? And I'll eat that. Yeah. And so that's the decisions and that I try to make a little bit healthier. You know, that's better than not eating. I mean, the fact that when we were chatting, I was, like, blown away the fact that you have a regular metro cycle. Like, you, like, your signals are so good given it really, I was like, damn, like, this is like such an interesting case study, you know, to kind of see how you're able to navigate it. What are some things that you're doing that do actually kind of mitigate some of these repercussions of being on the road 85% of the year?

So when I'm off or when I'm on, like, an evening schedule. I try to get in bed at the same time, you know. And again, that's hard with kids, but it's forced me to wind my kids down sooner. Right. You know, like as much as they don't want to, like, I'm like, I want to get in bed at this time. So I'm going to start your whole process of winding down earlier, which is fine. Two hours before that moment. So I have plenty of time.

Yeah, and I have two boys. So it's like that process starts like at noon, you know. I'm like, listen, put your PJs on and then we'll just watch him. Or I'm going to run you into the ground. I feel like they never. They have a wind up and they just keep winding up. I know. I know. It is. It's out of control. But the things that I can control just and just like when, like when we talk is like getting that 30 minutes extra of sleep. Yeah. Because that helped that just a bit of extension. Absolutely. In the morning. In the morning. Great. And taking natural supplements that help me sleep.

Yep. You know, just as a cop and at the Citadel, like weird hours or not being able to sleep and just taking like melatonin or ZEQuil or NyQuil before ZEQuil came out and just feeling like crap when you wake up and just still asleep, you know? So going from that to like, how can I just wind my body down and just naturally fall asleep? What is the most effective technique for you? A supplement that I take that has like magnesium. Is that magnesium?

DNA? Is that, or magnesium said, which one did you choose? It's thirdsy. It's like it has thirdsy and game changer. Like I won't not take it. Yeah. But everything in it is good. It has everything that you would take, but in one with collagen, you know? And I wake up feeling great. And like, finding that after so long has just been a game changer. And my husband takes it. So it's nice. Like every night, we do the same thing. And like, it's taken him a while to get on board with going to bed like between nine and ten because he works 24 on 48 off. And so when he gets off at 7 a.m., he's like, I don't want to miss out on hanging out with the kids or like what we want to do especially if I'm off. And so like he doesn't want to go to sleep until noon. And then if he does,

I'm like, hey, take a nap. And he will. And then he wakes up. And then he's like, I don't want to go to bed at nine. Like let's sit down and watch a movie. You know? And so like, but he's finally to the point where he's like, I would, yeah, I would rather go to bed at nine and then have one really good morning where we can sit on the porch and drink coffee and like, yeah, wake up at seven and feel good for that one whole day rather than like feeling like crap for two days, you know, so, which is why a couple years ago I bought him a whoop. I was like, I just kind of want to see what your data is at work. Like, I know you don't get any sleep, but how is this? We've talked to this. Firefighters are just out of control.

And you can tell when he comes home, like, how he reacts to the kids, you know? And I know that's not him. He's, like, the nicest person in the world. But, like, you can only take so much when you've had four hours of broken sleep. Yeah. You know, and your adrenaline's, like, up and down and up and down. So it's been nice to do this together with him, kind of getting on the same page and, like, winding down at night. You know, it's usually been, like, my kids, like, okay, eight or nine.

And then we're like doom scrolling or, you know, doing something. And then we're trying to go to sleep and we're waking up at like three in the morning. And I roll over and like, are you up because I'm up? You know, and then just not feeling great. And then again, it's repercussions, like taking it out of my kids and like just not enjoying your day. And so we've grown in that. And like just as you get older and, you know, postpartum. And I know we talked about that just like trying to regulate my hormones. And like, but you don't know how much, you don't realize how much effect. that, you know, like sleep. And I know we talked about upping creatine. Right, right. And that has helped. And how good. Yes. So are you at 10 grams? I'm at 10. Okay, perfect. I'm doing it 10 grams. And getting the 30 minutes is he? Yes. Okay, good. Yeah, we do it morning and night. Love it. Yep. And just like all those little things like helps clear my face up. And you just. Your skin looks so good. It's so much better. So much better. Thank you. Yeah. I just like all the, I told you I did that like blood test that like I finally, you know, I just, it's just like just all the things are kind of like falling into place.

And it is nice with the whoop to see that, you know, people are always like, how do you like wear that? Like, just go to sleep when you're tired and wake up when you're. And I'm like, no, like, I want to see what's- You can't afford to wing it, though. No, I want to see what's affecting me and like how that little change can make me feel better for my job, for my family, for life, for how I feel, for longevity. Right, right. You know, so. I know, I, you know, a lot of folks say, like, it takes you for. further from your body, but I, you know, technology, but I, I, I'm just, I'll die on this

hill, you know, like I just feel, obviously certain parts of technology do, right? Oh, of course, yes. iPads on my kids. Right, right. Totally. I wish I could just take it and throw it away, you know. But I think when it comes to understanding your body, like, absolutely. It's just like, there's, there's so many things in life that are uncertain that we have to

guess about, like, your body's actually not one of them, you know? Like, it's like they're, it's a little less, you know, there's a little less, you know, there's obviously lots of unknowns, right, about the things that we don't know about the body, right? I don't want to, you know, pretend that we have everything solved by any means. But when you understand your baseline, you just, you can then, you can see pretty clearly things that are, like, helping you and things that are hurting you, like behaviors that are hurting you. So I think it's just a source of insight that, you know, if your goal, like you said, you know,

to be present for your day and available for your kids, operating your job effectively, like, yeah, To me, it seems kind of like a no-brainer. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And like I said, there's a lot of things on this one that I, the new one that I've really loved. And like, I don't know if I'll ever, I will never get rid of it.

Good. For life. Yeah, for life. We'll be like in our 80s like me and like, what are you going to look like, Rachel? Well, waking up at like 6 a.m. I know. Going to bed at 5. Yeah.

I ate dinner at 3. Yep. That's right. So tell me about your training. So CrossFit. Yes. Yeah. So that's your primary.

So I've kind of do a little bit more now of just like functional fitness, functional bodybuilding, kind of like a mixture. It's hard to follow a certain programming with my schedule. Are you doing any martial arts? I don't. I have kind of a bad knee. I got it scoped. And my husband does jujitsu. Yeah.

And I've always really wanted to do it, but I'm also afraid to get hurt. Yeah, you can get injured so easily. Like, for your job. I really want to do it. I know. But I'm like, somebody torques my knee the wrong way and I'm just going to be like, and then it's going to be no fun. So I'm like, I don't want to be that person.

I'm backed off. I guess it's been like a year now where I haven't really done much. Yeah. And all of our guys do it. Oh, yeah. You know, like I was just, you know, like I hurt my elbow and, you know, it just like stupid random stuff. Yeah.

And I was just like, I don't know if it's worth. I know. And a lot of the guys that I work with do it, and I really want to do it. And I might do it with them just like, just to do it. Like we have days that we go in and training. And one of my best friends is like, hey, we're going to start implementing this at training. Like, let's do it on days that we go.

And I'm like, awesome. Like, I want to do that. I want to learn that. But as far as like going to a gym, I think I would, they wouldn't have any fun rolling with me because I'd be like, oh, that hurts my knee. Oh, that hurts my shoulder. I know. And a lot of times, like, there just isn't someone who's,

the equivalent size, like, for me. You know, like, you're, like, rolling with, like, a guy who's, like, 210 pounds, you know, and, like, they're afraid to hurt you and it, you know, it's just kind of like a... It's like a weird dynamic and you're like, is this kind of strange? There's anything for you? Is it anything? Like, we're not doing anything here. Like, you're afraid to.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would love to, but... I don't know. It's like such a fun sport. Yeah. I know.

So I still do crossfit style workouts. Um, but I kind of mix it up. And again, when I'm traveling, it's like 30 minutes in a hotel gym with dumbbells. you know and so I do and the nice thing one of the things that I like about this whoop is the plans that you can set up oh yeah so the programs the programs yeah so the uh getting the activity planner like you can set up like how much zone one to zone three and um doing that like getting 13,000 steps yep and that again keeps me accountable for like hitting my zone one through three because I hate running I do it and I do it and I

I've always done it, but it's not like my, like, euphoric, like, you know, like, that's not my go-to. Right, right. If I have 30 minutes, I'm not going to run for 30 minutes. I'm going to do, like, high-intensity workout or, like, interval training. Which is probably is, that is better for you generally, like that. Right. I always say I have to earn my zone, too, because it's just like, I love it. Like, I could go run for an hour and a half and just be, like, perfectly happy.

I want to feel that way. I do. I know. I know. I know. I just, yeah, it just, you know, how you just bodies, this the way your body's Yeah, absolutely. You know, whatever.

But yeah, but I always, I tell myself, though, because I know the work in the gym, the strength training, and, you know, the functional stuff in the gym and the high intensity, that's way more important. Absolutely. But it's helped me, like, even that out, right? I would go in and be like, okay, well, I've done four dumbbell crossfits out workouts. I'm like, okay, well, I need to go run. I need to get zone two in. I need to hit 10 minutes of zone four to five, you know, because I'm really trying to work on my VO2 max now because that's important because my age, my whoop age. You know, and like I read how to better that.

Isn't health span just awesome? Like my age of pacing is 1.6, which I'm like, and my husband's is like 0.8. And I'm like, your work schedule. Like how do you age that slow? Wow. And like stuff like that. Like it's like it's like cool little goals. Just strength training minutes too.

Yeah, strength training minutes, everything. Oh my God. I've only been, I've only strained like two hours and five minutes. This is, like, you know, like, what? You're like, I need to get in the gym. You're going to do it. Yeah, it's kind of helped me, like, level out my training to cover all the bases. Same.

Yeah. So that's features. One of the words I'm looking for. One of the features that I love is hitting those goals. Like, there's guys at work, like I said that were like, hey, let's do this high rocks. And I'm like, absolutely. Like, it'll help me run more. Yeah.

And so then I'm training for high rocks and I'm doing stuff like that. And then it's like, hey, let's. Are you going to do an event? So I did. I did the DC one with a partner. And it was awesome. Wow. Yeah.

Again, it's the things that I just have to travel a lot for since I already travel a lot. Like, I don't have that opportunity to just like take a weekend and go to Dallas. Yeah. But you, so for for high rocks, how did you get all the training in for that? Because it seems like you have to do a lot of volume. You have to do a lot of volume. Granted, I wasn't trying to win it. But how do you reconcile because you're so competitive?

I'm so competitive. So I feel like that I'd get in that. I'd hurt her myself because I'd be a psycho. Yeah. So one of the things that I love about CrossFit is the skill that goes into CrossFit. It's very technical. And I like doing technical things because not everybody can do them. And that's my personality.

You know, I'm like, oh, I'm going to do ring muscle ups still to the stay in my garage just to know that I can still do them. Or I'm going to go do a handstand walk just in my mind so I can check my little ego box at like, hey, I can still do this. You know, like not doing it all the time anymore. And so I've kind of come to the realization that I want to do things. It's hard not to be competitive, right? Like running around for high rocks. And I'm like, these people are running past me. Like, no, this is not going to happen.

But then you're like, okay, well, Rachel, you didn't 100% train. Like, this is not your full-time job. You've been in four countries in the last six days. I just got off midnight and now I'm here, you know. So, like, it's been easier to kind of. come to that realization, like, I want to do things competitively, but I can't put everything into one thing. You know, I have to kind of like spread that out a little bit. And so it's kind of been fun because I like to say when when people ask me like kind of what programming, like I want

to train kind of like for every day. Like I want to train where I run and do functional fitness where like if somebody's like, hey, do you want to do a high rocks with me? I'm like, absolutely. And then I can do it. I can be able to do it. But like not be last place, but like I can feel confident in how I finished or like, hey, do you want to go to the tactical games and do and I'm like, yeah, absolutely, I'll go do that? Or like, hey, do you want to go run the Army 10-mile like me and my sister did and be able to go run that and finish in like, like, okay, I want to finish an hour and a half. Cool, I finish an hour and a half. And so like that's kind of at where I'm at in my life is like training for life, but being able to do everything. Yeah, per se.

I love that. Right. And it's been hard because I am competitive. Yeah. And I am still competitive, but I have to realize, like, I can't devote all my time to just one thing, you know. And I think, like, having that in your mind as a reason for, like, because obviously, you know, a hierarchs competition or across the company, you know, those are happening, like, probably only a couple times a year for you. Right. Just given your demands. But having that in your brain, that that's what I'm actually trying to make sure that I can do. Right.

It's just, like, such a great frame, a great source of motivation, I think. And same for me. Like, I want to be able to, like, step on a basketball court and play a full game of basketball. right with 25 year olds right that like like to me like I'm like that's what I want to do and not look like I'm not one of them exactly yeah you know and and that's kind of a lofty goal but um I did beat shubs I saw that in one-on-one basketball so he's still he's still he's still a little better he's bitter but whatever but it's fine you know and pickleball and tennis you know whatever yeah and everything you beat him in everything I did I did actually beat him in cornhole so I will give him oh well is that

really a sport, I don't know, so. I'm not really an athlete. Well, technically, it's, it's a sport, maybe by word, but you're not an athlete. So you bet he beat him in athletic. Exactly. Yes. Sports. Right. That's really just a beer game. So I'll give him that. Yeah, exactly. That's why he won. Yeah. That sounds for, exactly. Hopefully that makes it in the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good. Shout out to Shubs. I do have to give him credit because he introduced us. He did. Yes. Yes. Thank you. And we're going to be BFF. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Cut them out of there. So what advice do you have for young women who might be listening to this and are inspired by your journey and your path? What would you tell them? If you want to do it, do it. You know, like I hate the term like you can do anything because there are some things I can't do. You know, like I'm not going to go be a Navy SEAL because I don't like swimming. You know, and I have a fear of water.

So like that's not something that I'm just going to go again like I like to say I have a respect a healthy respect but yeah I know but you know like my biggest fear is like dying in the water. And so I'll never be able to get that out of my mind. So like I know I'm not going to just go try to do that to be the first woman. Right. Again, it has nothing to do with male and female and being a first and I'm where I'm at because I wanted to be here. But I know my capabilities and I know that it was something that I could do. And so just like if you want to do it, do it, but like know your capabilities and be the best version of yourself and just know like you are going to maybe have to try a little bit harder, but it's worth it, you know? And like don't try to stand out. Don't try to be different. Just like do your job and like nobody can say anything to you because you're doing your job. Well, thank you for this conversation. Yes. Thank you for your service.

Thank you. You have a really hard job. And, uh, but I love that you love it. And that comes through loud and clear. So yeah. Thank you for having me. Yeah. If you enjoyed this episode of the Woop podcast, please leave a rating or review. Check us out on social at Woop at Wob. If you have a question what's answered on the podcast, email us, podcast at Woop.com. Call us 508-433-4952. If you think about joining Woop, you can visit Woop.com. Sign up for a free 30-day trial

membership. New members can use the code Will WI-L to get a $60 credit on WOOP accessories when you enter the code at checkup. That's a wrap, folks. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green.