WHOOP Podcast - Jessica and Nelly Korda discuss their pro-athlete family and what it's like being sisters each ranked among the world's best golfers.

Episode Date: August 5, 2020

Professional golfers Jessica and Nelly Korda, both ranked in the top 20 in the world, talk about growing up with pro-athlete parents (3:45), why they make great teammates (8:30), what got them on WHOOP (15:38), exceptional HRV and resting heart rates (17:42), WHOOP teams they are on with other pros (19:02), measuring what you can't feel (20:25), the stress of the Tour and the strain it causes (23:08), being child phenoms (27:24), strength training and how their workout plans differ (36:40), how they recover (42:01), why today's athletes may or may not have longer careers than the previous generation (44:11), what keeps them focused (46:10), and playing in the time of COVID-19 (56:54). Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

Hello, folks. Welcome to the Whoop Podcast. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Whoop, and we are on a mission to unlock human performance. That's right, we build wearable technology across hardware and software and analytics that is designed to understand the human body. That includes things like strain and recovery and sleep. More recently, we've been emphasizing respiratory rate as an important marker. You can read more about our COVID-19 research and respiratory rate if you check out whoop.com slash the locker. I've got two amazing guests today and we will get to them in just a second. First, I want to remind you that you can get 15% off a WOOP membership if you use the code, Will Ahmed, that's W-I-L-L-A-H-M-E-D. Now, many of you may have seen a lot of the different

partnerships that we've been announcing at WOOP, it's been a crazy busy time. We're working with lots of different sports leagues and organizations to help them go back to work safely and with the right health monitoring data. And the LPGA is a proud partner now of WOOP. So we've become the official wearable of the LPGA. And I today have two amazing ambassadors for the LPGA, Jessica Corda, and Nellie Corda, who are, respectfully, 17 in the world and two in the world on the LPGA. That's right. They're two of the best women's golfers and their sisters. We cover what it's like for the two of them to be very close friends, sisters, and growing up competing against each other at the highest level. We talk about how their parents have played

such an important role in their careers and their lives. They are the daughters of two professional tennis players. Notably, Peter Cordo won the Australian Open in 1998. So it's a super athletic family, and they talk a lot about the mentality and the attitude that their parents had and helping them become successful. We talk about their routines and their habits, some of the things that they've done that have kept them successful, how they manage stress. We go a lot into their loop data. Jessica specifically has some freakishly high HRV statistics and they both have, I think, a really thoughtful attitude towards WOOP data and how to use it. We talk about other athletes who have inspired them and what they've learned from various competitors across all of sports.

I think the two of them are really bright, really balanced, and have a great down-to-earth attitude for being the best at their sport. So without further ado, here is Jessica and Nellie. Nellie, Jessica, welcome to the WooP Podcast. Thank you for having us. We're so excited to be on here. Yeah, thank you so much. Well, I've admired the two of you from a distance. I feel like you're the trailblazers right now in LPGA golf.

Jessica, I'll start with you. Did you always know that you wanted to be a professional golfer? Once I started playing golf more seriously as a junior, I did. I qualified for my first Women's Open when I was 15 in 2000. Which is wild, by the way. That's pretty wild. It was really cool. And so I kind of got a taste of the big league really early. And I so desperately wanted to be out there. And so I did. Now, having two parents that are professional athletes, I feel like that's got to help. That's got to help the mindset of I can be a professional athlete. You tell me. I think it just helps in like the guiding aspect. You know, they know more about recovery and they know more about travel and the stress of being a professional athlete.

At the end of the day, it's the work that we put in and, you know, our drive, their drive doesn't, for us, obviously doesn't really make huge difference. But it's the behind the scenes stuff that I think really helped us and still helps us as professionals. Now, they were both professional tennis players, so was there a little bit of a nudge to go down the path of being a professional tennis player? No, we were very lucky. All they wanted us to do is play sports. So as soon as we started walking, we were on skis, we were on skates. We were in gymnastics, in ballet, playing tennis, playing golf, just literally anything to get us out of the house, get the energy out. And so we come home tired.

I mean, just from following the two of you on social media, I feel like you're running around playing sports all the time. Is that fair, Nellie? Yeah, I mean, we're all very active. Our little brother, he's two years younger than me. He plays professional tennis. So occasionally we try and get out. Just she actually just moved over, or a year and a half ago or two years ago, she moved over to the other side of Florida. So we're originally from Bradenton, Florida. And she also plays tennis now. And it's great. Like to do it as a family and to stay active is definitely great. Now, Jessica, you are 27, excuse me, and Nellie, you're 21.

I was like, don't age me yet. No, I'm still 27. So let's get this straight. So when you're 15, you're playing professionally. Nellie, you're nine years old looking up to your sister, seeing her playing in the big leagues. Were you like, I got to get the hell out there? Was that pretty motivating for you? Yeah, I mean, so we were actually looking at some photos like yesterday.

She got a photo of me from her first U.S. Open. And I was like, I didn't realize how actually young I was when she played her first U.S. Open. And it definitely, you know, gave me motivation because she got her LPGA core card in 2011 and then I qualified for the US Open at in 2013 when I was 14 and I think that's kind of like where I decided like this is what I want to do for the rest of my life and and you beat your sister by a year right you qualified a year sooner than she did well her birthday is actually July 28 so US Open lands on July 5th usually so it was like right before her. Okay, okay. So it's, so sort of like you're both 15. I still, I still went. I still had the 14. Yeah, she still has the one for. Now, how do the two of you balance, you know, cheering for each other with wanting to, like, kill each other?

Can you answer that? I think it's actually, like, a really good blend of competitiveness and also being there for each other. I mean, whenever one of us is down, like, we're always there for each other. But, So at the end of the day, we do want to beat each other. I, like, my favorite story is possibly my rookie year. We were playing in somewhere in Michigan, I think Ann Arbor. And I'm on 18 and just has a great last day. Like probably she cleared it. Like, back door, top 10. Like, I'm so happy.

And I look at the leaderboard and I have like a really hard breaker left to right. And I look at my caddy and I'm like, I'm going to make this. because we were tied and I was going to knock her outside of the top 10. And I do is look at my phone and it just says in text, F you. I was like, you're paying for the hotel this week, you little fish. I couldn't believe it. It was so funny. But I mean, well, like, she was in the final group in Singapore in 2018.

And, you know, she was really nervous. And so I kind of gave her a pep talk. But right as I was about to leave the locker room, I turned around and I go, oh, by the way, I'm coming to get you. I love that. It's very healthy, but it's also, like, fun for us, you know? Now, as I understand it, the two of you have played together as teammates as well. Talk about that experience.

It was so fun. I mean, I was really nervous because I knew what was on the line. You know, if we didn't play well, we would definitely hear. about it and so we would definitely hear about it um and so it was a little nerve wrecking at the beginning but we just had so much fun we were able to feed off of each other so well and knowing your partner as closely as we know each other when you get down it's really easy to bring that other person up because you know exactly what to say and I feel like only family would be able to kind of be there for you and then obviously in the height of the success was

it was just great to be able to share that with my little sister, and I always dreamed of doing that when I started playing professionally and played my first Solheim Cove, and my sister was out there. And I was like, I need you out here so bad. I was like, I don't know what you need to do, but you need to be out here. Was it cool for you, too, Nellie? Yeah, it was amazing. I mean, I think what made it a little easier is that, like Jess said,

we know each other so well, so we were comfortable. And our games are really similar. and playing that team event together you have it's kind of hard when someone like pairs you up with a girl that hits it shorter but we we have such similar games that it was so much fun because it was like we weren't even like playing together you know it was just so easy now when you say you have similar games it's similar yardages similar style similar swings all that I wouldn't I mean everyone says that we have similar swings but we kind of don't see it We have very similar strengths where basically we hit at the same distance off the T.

She overpowered, Jess overpowers me off the T. That's kind of the big sis move, though. That seems like kind of on brand. Yeah. But our irons go pretty much similar. And so it's really easy to like club off of her or, you know, if you're in between yardage is playing alternate shot, you can always bring the other person in and say, hey, I have these two shots.

And we play so much golf together that it's almost. like, I know how she would hit it. She knows how I would hit it. And so we can kind of communicate like that and really just bounce off of each other. It's really cool. It's very special. That is cool. That seems really cool. Okay. Now, I've got some interesting research here. This is a phenomenal story, if this is true. I'm looking at the 2013 U.S. Open, Jessica. and at the turn of the this is amazing at the turn of the third round you fire your caddy and pull your boyfriend out of the gallery to caddy for you is this an accurate story yes it is okay so so unpack that for me because that's that's world class

well i mean it's the same thing as in if you were in an office um you bring in your your employee and you have multiple talks of which you expect and a job that needs to be done and you're a team out there and under a lot of pressure when you're close to the lead at a U.S. Open and it was also the first time, you know, I was able to qualify for the Solheim Cup. So there was a lot riding on that week and I was like, listen, you need to be a team and that's just something that wasn't happening and I had multiple talks, not just with my caddy, but also the rest of my team and it wasn't working and I was like five over through nine and then you know I made the shot I think one or two under on the back nine and felt a lot better about it I caught a lot

of heat for it but at the end of the day that caddy and I are very good terms we go to dinner every time we're paired together we're you know it's just a great pairing we take each other here and there's no hard feeling so at the end of the day it's a job that's cool you know it's interesting, like, and having interviewed and gotten to know a lot of professional golfers, it's, it's interesting to hear how much of a team sport you guys think of it is, you know, and I think from the casual observers standpoint or even a, you know, a fan of golf, it seems very much like it's all in your hands. Now, what's an example of what a caddy could say that could get that person fired in the middle of a round? It's not necessarily, it's

Actually, what you don't say. Yeah, I mean, you know, there were just mistakes that were made. And obviously, I was super young as well. So having somebody to lean on is really big, especially in those moments where you haven't been in that situation yet. Yeah. As a young golfer or a young professional. And so it was more just about the stuff that wasn't said and how just in the sense I was alone out there, you know? And it's, you need that guidance.

sometimes um yeah there wasn't enough of a feedback loop like yeah i mean you know everyone's different about what they need and when they need it um and this wasn't like a it was just that week you know it was it was multiple weeks um but like i said him and i are in a really great turn since a good caddy it just didn't work out for us and that's fine i think finding a caddy is like harder than finding a spouse quite honest with you seriously we spend it's a relationship yeah we spend nine to 10 hours with them daily seven days a week you know we're out on the road like 25 26 weeks out of the year and you just like yeah by like that third or fourth week you're like okay I'm ready not to see you for like a week do not text me I will see you in two weeks now the boyfriend comes in under

the ropes. Was he ready for that moment? Oh yeah. He did great. Wow. I see I always wonder like, okay, say you had just thrown, like if I caddied for you, just and we had never like met before and all of a sudden I'm cadding for you in the U.S. Open, like how many strokes do you think I cost you? I'm like a three or four handicap, you know, cursory, cursory understanding of the greens. Can you add and subtract? I can add him subtract. Yeah, I caddied as a 15 year old. Can you figure out where the wind's coming from? Yeah, I can do that. Pretty solid.

As long as you can have a conversation with me and kind of keep me distracted, it's kind of how it is. So, but you make it seem like it's not as big a deal then. It's more, it's the gelling of the two people, the two personalities. So it's mostly chemistry. On a golf course, like, we go through the highs and the lows, and you have to match two personalities up. How would you deal in a low situation?

You know, can they say the right thing at the right time? It's really, it's tough to find the personalities at jail. That makes sense. Okay. Now, Nellie, when did you first start wearing whoop? So I actually started wearing it last year, I think April time. So I don't know if you know Ryan Ruffles. Yeah, of course.

Yeah, so we were actually really good friends, and he was, like, wearing it, and he was showing me, like, all of his numbers. I'm like, what is that? That is so cool. Like, how do you know how many calories you burned and how you slept? So he told me about it, and I got it right away, and, yeah, and then I told Jess about it. She saw me wearing it, and then she got into it. And then I just saw it all blew up, like, every golfer was wearing it. I was like, it's kind of cool. I was like, what is this contraption to wear?

Tell me everything about it. And I love the feedback that the Wob gives. Especially the recovery, I think. I mean, I had like 29% recovery yesterday. And like when I woke up, I was like, okay, I'm like fine. But then as the day went on, I was like, oh my gosh. Like, I am so tired. Like, I feel it.

It's pretty amazing, isn't it? Oh, it's been so cool for me to see it explode in golf. And obviously we just announced the partnership with the LPGA, which we're very excited about at Woop. Have you seen a lot more women wearing it? Oh, yeah, definitely. There's a lot of athletes are wearing. I mean, like, every photo that, like, all the LPGA girls post,

and now everyone's going to start wearing it, too. So I think a lot of girls are already wearing it, but I feel like it's just going to grow more and more. It's also cool because, like, it's a good conversation starter as well. So it's like, you know, what hand do you wear it on? What's your recovery like? Heavy dabble? Arm band.

What's your HRV? It's just, it's just fun. What's your lowest recovery? Yeah, there are a lot of good talking points. I was just at the Memorial Tournament with a lot of the guys on the PGA Tour, and it was funny sitting at a table with these guys and watching them all take out their phones and start talking about their whoop data. It was a little surreal for me.

Now, Jessica, I understand you have a freakish HRV. I do. I don't understand. how, why, what, but I have a really high H-R-B. I think, like, the highest is, like, 270, like, nine, maybe. Yeah, that's very high. Yeah. I mean, on a low thing, like, today I'm low, and I'm at 163.

Yeah, but my low is, like, 63. I'm missing the one. Yeah, well, I mean, yours is still pretty high, too, Nellie, through that lens. I mean, so, so I got a couple write-in questions. here. Justin Thomas asked me to ask you girls what kind of interval training you've been doing to make your HRVs so high. He gives me a really hard time about it because I just don't get it. I told him, I was like, maybe you should just start running interval runs. Like you get on the Peloton half and just start running interval runs. And he's not competitive at all, so I'm sure it

doesn't bother him. Oh, no. We have a group chat going and every time I hit a new personal record they just send me just like wings they're like you're not you levitate when we sleep there's no way that like it's real so who is on your your whoop team so we have actually one that's really cool is myself nellie um and our brother which he's new and he's got it like last week and i feel like he's probably into it his resting heart rate is like 33 and his HRV is like 220 average right now so so you guys just have great genes you're you're like a very healthy fit family i'm like the middle odd child out because like their hrvs are so high and i'm like well what about me and then they're like resting heart rates are so low and then mine's like 52 average and

my brother's like 32 and i'm like what the heck like why don't i have these numbers I think you're second in the world right now in the LPGA. I think you're doing just fine, Nellie. I wouldn't worry about it. I don't know if you're like, I want my numbers to be as good as theirs, you know? She's literally texting me. She's like, what did you do? Like, did you do something different?

I need to know. Okay, so you guys are on a family team together. Are you on teams with other athletes? Yeah, on a team with like Ricky, Justin. Bud Collie, Smiley, yeah. That's cool. It is.

It is cool. And what have you noticed about different, like, workouts, things like that from wearing whoop? I actually got pretty sick in early February, and my numbers were so out of whack. And it took me almost two months to get back to, like, a stronger HRV. and, like, I've been dabbling, let's say, with some magnesium, just some different, like, recovery stuff, especially this, you know, quarantine, because I've been going to the gym a bit more, just to see what it also does to my numbers. And it's just interesting to see the results which you put into your body. And these are results that you can't physically see, but you can see them, obviously, thanks to the whoop. Yeah, I mean, that's probably one of the most important phenomenons about whoop is that,

we're measuring things that effectively you can't feel. And how do you know if magnesium's good for you or melatonin's good for you or, you know, fill in the blank all these different things that you guys are probably doing to your body or taking or trying? Yeah, I mean, I just put in like travel and just to see into my journal. Yeah. Travel's like, too, I haven't been on an airplane since December. And not sleeping in your own bed. I have that too.

Yeah, sleeping in your own bed, sharing a bed, that kind of stuff. So it's like you just see how my sleep has been a bit off as well since I've left the house. I can see like my disturbances have gone up because all of a sudden I'm like hearing things and you're just not in like the comfort of your own home. So it'll be interesting to see our numbers these next two weeks and how maybe we settle into tournament life again. I feel like our numbers though are pretty good. Like, my numbers were always pretty good during tournament weeks because, you know, you make sure you go to sleep at a certain hour and you get enough rest, even though you're waking up super early. So I feel like during tournament week, we're really, like, diligent with making sure, like, our bodies are recovering. Yeah, it's interesting.

The golfers I know on Whoop really get a lot of sleep. I mean, like, there's a big focus on sleep from you all, which is cool, you know? I think it's because we're out in the sun all day and that sun just drains so much energy from you and being on your feet like not many people think like yeah you know tennis like if I've had like let's say a tennis player goes out and walks 18 they are absolutely exhausted while obviously if we do their workout then we're exhausted too but it's just so different and golf is actually so exhausting when it's like tournament play that no one like really. realizes it. Well, it's also really mentally strenuous, right? Like, what's the strain of a U.S. Open round versus the strain of a practice round? It's a lot higher, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I mean, it's just the stress, too. I mean, our jobs are not secure, you know, and you always know that we play for our jobs every year. We play for a paycheck every week. And so obviously, like the stress of that wanting to win golf tournaments being up top on top of the leaderboard and just like

you know you know what you want to do and what you're kind of expected to do and then you can have to do it now who did who did you look up to jessica when you were coming up i mean we're close to the same age i'm 30 you're 27 uh did you idolize tiger woods yeah big time i was one i'm not the tiger kids Yeah, we're that age where he was, like, amazing at a time where athletes have a huge influence on your life. Yeah, he was. He definitely, I always, every time when we turned on golf, we were watching Tiger Dominique, basically, and reading, you know, all the books that were out, whether it was on his training or, you know, and obviously, you know, actually know exactly what goes. But you have a, you know, general idea. So definitely somebody that I still look up to.

Well, I think he definitely inspired our generation, especially through a professional golf lens, to be a lot fitter. I mean, you look at professional golfers today, both on men and women's tour. They just look a lot different than they did, you know, 15 years ago. Would you agree with that? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for the men, it was definitely tiger pushing the envelope, and for us, it was Anika. She's the one that kind of started to really work out and push that envelope in women's golf. Yeah, that's right.

Now, what about Michelle Wee? Was she a thing at all? I mean, I remember reading about Michelle Wee, and I feel like she's around the same age as me, too. And she was sort of this, like, you know, phenom of sorts. Yeah, she's married, has a cute baby, might possibly be coming back to play in some events. But she's happy. That feels like a case, and this is amazing because it didn't happen at all to you guys, but it feels like a case of too much success too young or too big of a spotlight too young.

In some ways, I wonder if because the two of you come from a family of professional athletes and like you maybe had the right sort of upbringing around that kind of success. I think, I mean, I can't really speak for her because obviously her experience has to be is completely different to hours. But I mean, her spotlight started, I think, at like 13. Like I can't imagine being a 13-year-old girl and having all these media outlets writing about me and all these expectations of like, this is the next, you know, female Tiger Woods. Yeah, because when you're kind of like.

get into it you read it all and you read you even though you're like you shouldn't and still like really like invest some time into reading all this stuff and you're a young girl too trying to figure out what you like what you know who you are you know I don't know if that happened or not but it was more like people telling her who she is but I think she's she's had a good career she's a great person one of my friends for sure oh cool learn so much from her she took me and her wing my kind of second year on tour and we were Solhan Cup partners as well and now she's she's going to be the assistant captain at Solhan which I'm really excited about going to make her run and

get me smoothies all day long nice so yeah you know I think she settled into a career and she went to Stanford and I think she got to do a lot of things that she always wanted to do you know yeah that sounds like a good outcome now when you're like 14 or 15 and you're at that level and you have a really bad round. We'll start with you, Jessica. Like, what was your, what would you do after that? Would you go talk to your parents? Would you sort of just sulk in the corner?

Would you break your clubs? What was your sort of mindset of? Definitely not breaking clubs. It's not the club. I honestly, I didn't talk to my parents. My parents talked to me. Okay. It was usually like, what was the learning experience from that?

And obviously at the time, they called you everything that you did wrong, which you're like, I just, you know, can't do anything right. But in the big picture, is they're trying to push you to look at yourself from a bigger picture and not just the smallness of you shot 77 or 82 or whatever it was. Let's see what you did wrong so we can get better at that and move forward. So to try to be reflective, also introduce some level of perspective, maybe some gratitude for the fact that you're even in that moment. Yeah, definitely.

I mean, at the time, it's always hard to look at it. You know, it's always hard to look at, I'm so grateful to be in that position. I mean, the amount of times you finish second, third, you had a chance to win, whatever it is. You always want to win, right? So kind of stepping back and at the beginning of the week, would you have taken this outcome? Like, yeah, I guess. Not bad, but you always want to win, and that's the competitor inside of you, but you always have to appreciate the small milestones that you hit along the way.

That's good advice. If you had a bad around age 14, 15, would you go talk to Big Sis? Would you talk to your parents? No one? I don't really remember talking to Jess a lot about it. I was gone. Yeah, Jess was always on the road. When I was younger and playing local tournaments, my mom would be with me at a lot of events. And then obviously, as I got older, I started traveling. So my dad was with me. But I would say the same as Jess. you know they talk to us so those um to refer they used to always say like look in the mirror and see like what you did kind of wrong you know yeah like the reflection of the mirror is basically the only trait that you need to know like you have to face yourself yeah and um so

I mean at when it like happened when you didn't have a good round you were like oh like I don't want to do this like you were like so like you don't you didn't want to do it but then now looking back i'm so grateful that my parents like did have those talks of us because we wouldn't be where we are without them yeah totally and and did you did either of you have a sort of a true coach along the way or is that was your parents more of the coach we kind of had a few growing up um pretty much the same coaches always actually but our dad is definitely always really involved um he's a good golfer himself and he's definitely like even when he played tennis he was a very like talented field-based player and he can they can both even my mom like they can just both see if something's wrong

so they were kind of always like go-to second set of us always or second set of us i still to this day like i before i left florida i asked my dad to come out with me for nine holes and just to see where i'm aimed and to look at my swing and look at my putting because No matter what, like, I still love his opinion and I still go to them for everything. He's also brutally honest. So, like, if he really doesn't like something that you're doing, he has zero issue telling me. So, and same thing with our mom. I mean, if she really, if they really don't like something, they're not going to sugarcoat it.

They're just going to come out and just blatantly say it. It's great because our parents are such a great mix. Like, my mom is really into, like, health and, like, fitness and taking care of your body. dad is obviously more of like he looks at her golf and works with kind of like our trainers like we're always a team like very family oriented like whoever we work with coach fitness it's our whole family's like my parents are really involved which we love because we want that i mean if we didn't want that we would tell them they would step away but because we always ask and like milly that she brings dad out to watch her swing i send him videos or i'll face time him from the

range to look at certain things and he has he's known us since we were little so who better to kind of be our second set of eyes and someone that's seen us grow through everything it's so interesting i mean what you describe sounds super healthy and i find i find the whole parents of really successful professional athletes quite interesting because it does seem like there's a few different paths. You know, you take like the William's sisters, for example, Serena and Venus's father, I think he was known for being like a real hard ass, like, and really drove them to be who they are. And then you look at, you know, you look at a model like Patrick Mahomes' father or Steph Curry's father, right? These are also freakishly good athletes, but it looks like

they had more of an experience that sounds more like yours, whereas, you know, someone was kind of in the back seat was always there when you needed them and had that sort of feel for what it meant to be a professional athlete. Yeah, I mean, our parents have a great feel of when to push and when to step back. And I think that's, I don't know if that's because of how they grew up or, you know, what they did as athletes, but they always know when they need to step in and say something where they do need to be kind of not aggressive, but like just brutally honest. I think that's the word, brutally honest.

and when to kind of let you be and tell you that you're doing it, doing it right. And I think they started doing that more when we got on tour. I think when we were younger, they were kind of like, you know, pushy. Like, I didn't want to go to the rain sometimes when I want to be like you have to practice. Like, they would keep us. Yeah, they were strict. But it was like back then I would like say like, oh, I'm not like hanging out with my friends. I'm not doing all this stuff, but I'm so glad I made those sacrifices and that they pushed me to do what I do because we both wouldn't be where we are without them.

I always say that I stand like firmly behind that. Yeah, absolutely. I'm grateful for everything I went through. The good, the bad, the ugly, the answer. Now what's like an example of some super blunt feedback? I mean, honestly, like sometimes, especially younger, let's say it. I didn't want to go practice or I didn't want to spend the time and they would come home or I would come home after an hour and a half and I'd be like, are you serious?

Do you think that that was enough? Like, that's not enough. You need to go back out there and you need to grind. Like, you're in a stage where you need to grind. And that's where I was scarred and I was like, I'm going to be there for three hours. Yeah. She would hear these conversations that like I would have to start hearing. But like I said, it was never, they always, it was.

always our dream to it's our dream to be where we are but they just knew how to push us the right way push the right button and just have the like very specific feel of when tough love needed to happen and when kind of like the codwin needed to happen but like there's like if you ever look at great athletes their parents are always really involved yeah i agree with that There's not, there's, I feel like there could be a few that like their parents are involved, but all the great athletes there, when it comes to tennis, I mean, you can see during grand slams, like so many of their parents are still sitting in their boxes and watching every single match. I think there's a big, I think it's even a bigger phenomenon with individual sports. Yeah, for sure. Because I think at a team level, you start to have other people in your life who can be mentors and, and, um,

Whereas that individual aspect of the game, it's just, it's a slightly lonelier thing, I think. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Like, I, the happiest I've been is on tour is when, like, Nellie came out. And Charlie. I heard my dog Charlie. I said our dog, my dog, Charlie. It's our dog.

And we're on tour. And so the dog, will the dog be out there on the course while you're playing or that's not allowed? No, no, no, no. He chills in either a daycare or in the room. but I look up like all the dog parks and it's just a great distraction away from the golf because you know when you come back into your room and let's say you haven't had a great day you know it's the love the unconditional love and happiness that your dog brings it's almost like just washes all the stress away yeah they don't care what kind of day you have they're going to be happy to see you

no matter what now are the two of you doing strength training yes what kind of stuff do you like to do i like to train with my trainer five to six times a week that's a lot yeah but i just feel like when i don't my body falls apart like i feel really good when i do that and i've been with him for about three years now and i think we've come up with a really good plan that keeps my body as healthy as it could be during throughout the season but i also love to do cardio like I love to run which no one ever says okay no I love says that they love to run people keep I sweat a lot and people ask me and they're like oh like do you like to sweat I love to sweat like I love when I'm dripping sweat because I feel like I'm doing something

like I like to be active and I like to just I don't know I guess put my body through a lot but that's an endorphin rush I mean that's what sweating does yeah Well, she sweats more than anyone I've ever met. Like, her and I will be doing the same workout. Same intensity, same everything. She's like, got drops on the ground. I'm like, what are you doing? I'm fine.

I'm barely sweating. Do you drink a lot of water? That is something I struggle with. I don't drink a lot of water. I'm trying to improve that, but I don't know. It's just like, I'm on her. I'm like, did you drink? Did you want some water?

Can I get you anything? It just sucks when you always do. drink water you know i just like can't yeah i'm always i always i'm always i'm always i'm always drinking water people in my office make fun of me for it she like doesn't drink carbonated drinks ever no and like she stays away from sugar my she's she is more like my mom in terms of like being a complete health freak in a sense but she enjoys herself sometimes i love i definitely have a sweet tooth my dad has a big sweet tooth definitely got from him chenely's the type of person that like look at some a dessert and she'd be like you should get that like what do I have you should get that

I'm like no my butt's already big enough like I don't need to get that you can get it but the thing is I'm like so how does it taste like 20 questions like is it really good can I smell it oh but so you'll just get her to eat it but you're not going to you're not going to engage I love I love it like I'm definitely Like, if I could, I would eat sweets all the time. I mean, you can. You just do not to. I mean, I guess fruit. I eat a lot of fruit, so, I mean, in a way.

She eats fruit and pretend she's eating a donut. Yeah. Okay. And Jessica, you're in the weight room, too, as often as Nellie? Yeah, I work out five to six times a week. but I add cardio into that. So out of like the six days, I might do two days of cardio. I'm really big into bands.

I've had a couple injuries through my career. And so I do a lot of body weight stuff. And yeah, I mean, I've been working with Colby for two and a half years now. And we've definitely transformed my body a good bit. Now, do the two of you compete around that stuff, too? Like, will you be like, I benched 75 pounds today, Nellie? We have just such different workouts. Like, if she did my workouts, she would be sore.

And when I went over to the other side a few weeks ago, two weeks ago, I did one of her workouts. And I was like, holy moly, I am so sore. It's just different workouts. It's built to our bodies. Yeah. It's really important to have a trainer that builds a program to your specific body because no two bodies are the same. Same thing like no two swings are the same.

And you need to find a trainer that trains you for you and not like their own agenda. And I think that's where you really find the greatest trainers. Do you feel like lifting weights has actually made you hit the ball further or do you think it's more of like the recovery factor and like not getting injured? I think it's more of like not getting injured. I don't think I've like hit the ball the same distance throughout the last couple of years and I've upped like weight in the gym.

Yeah. But I feel like I've gotten like stronger. Definitely my core back is very important in golf. I would say the control in my swing has maybe gotten more consistent because I can hold that position. I mean if you look at golf, I don't feel like, you know, that's a natural motion necessarily.

And it's so one side dominant. And plus when you're tall, your swing gets out of whack so much because, you know, you play in wind, you play in golf courses where you don't have a flat lie all the time. So you're always adjusting. Yeah. And the two of you are tall. Yeah. Yeah.

We are. Okay. Now, recovery. What kind of stuff do you like to do for recovery? Oh, I love recovery. It could be like, I deem myself the queen of recovery. I probably own every hyper-ice thing that is out there from the form. Yeah, Norma-Tex, foam rollers, trigger point balls, just about literally just about.

Okay, so will you do those before rounds or after or both? I foam-roll before a round and I do some activational stuff before the round, especially for like glutes, core, and shoulders. And then after the round, I have like a warm down routine. And then I get into, I take a shower, get into my normatics, alphomerole, trigger point, whatever it is that I feel like I need. Usually we travel with physios. So they also take care of our bodies.

But now with COVID and them being stuck in Australia, we kind of don't really have a choice there. so we really got to do it ourselves yeah and our parents have always made sure like they always say invest in your body so even if it's you know physios are like expensive to a certain point so they've always really stood behind really investing in our bodies so because you want to have a long career and you don't want injuries well that's the that's the new age of sports that we live in i mean the thing that we got right with whoop is we we saw this sleep and recovery movement coming, you know, way early. And in 2010, it was all about

can you do a two a day, can you do a three a day, how hard can you train? In 2020, it's all about, you know, what kind of supplements you're taking, what kind of recovery techniques you're taking, how long you sleep. You know, the poster children for careers now are people like LeBron James and Tom Brady. And the narrative isn't just how good they are on the field, but the narrative is like what they're doing, you know, off field and how they're sleeping and how they're thinking about recovery. And I think that your generation is going to have much longer careers than your parents' generations. I think, I mean, yes, I agree with that. But on the other side, I think we also pound our bodies more than the older generation. So, I mean,

especially... It's a great take. yeah i mean we we put more strain on our bodies because we are in the gym more and we are doing other things more whereas you know let's say a jack nicholas back in the day you know wouldn't be going out to work out no they didn't know what the gym was exactly so they and same thing with tennis i feel like you know if you look at tennis back in the day it was way more artistic um there were more shots being hit. It was different, right? Same thing with gymnastics. It's more power. Everything now is power. And so I think that we also put our bodies under more strain. So we do need these recovery techniques and we do need to push kind of the quota a little bit because it is

different. We put our bodies under more strain, I feel like. Nellie, same for you on those recovery modalities? Yeah, I mean, I do the same stuff, but I mean, I feel like back in the day, everyone was like this skinny. Like they were so skinny. Like even if you look at like tennis players because, you know, we grew up watching a lot of tennis. They're still skinny, but they all are, have super strong legs. Like it's just like the body types have really evolved throughout the years when it comes to sports. And I think I kind of agree with just, yeah, we put more strain on our body, but because we have those muscles, we are not getting injured as much as, let's say, they would in the past. That makes sense. Now, let's talk about the mental side.

We'll start with Jessica. Jessica, what are you doing mentally to stay focused out there? Do you do you have any habits, any visualizations, meditations of sorts? Honestly, for me, it's routine. Every time I speak to kids about, you know, stress or pressure or whatever, I always say if you have a routine, that's muscle memory and it's something that you can always rely on. So I literally will do the same thing in the locker room. I will walk out around the same time every single day. I will have like the same warm up routine, same thing when I go and... Routine and superstition. Yeah, I have a lot of superstitions too, but I don't know.

get into that. Nellie, what's the goofiest superstition Jessica's got? I don't think she knows. I wouldn't know. I don't know. But I do know one of my brothers when he won the Junior Australian Open, he ate the same meal at the same restaurant seven days in a row. And my dad is the same exact way as my brother. That's kind of amazing. Yeah. It's not that bad. Like I have a superstition. Like I always have three cheese in my hair. And once I break him, then I can refill him. And my catty knows. now too so he just hands out. I have two T's in my hair and one in my pocket. See like it's just like stuff like that. And I think it's like warming up too. You're like, okay, I want to do the same exact thing. Like I had a good round yesterday. Like it's just how it is. It's just something you rely on

and muscle memory and it almost is automatic and you don't think about the other stuff. Like, you know what the round might mean or you just focused on doing that specific thing at that specific time all right what will you do if you're leading a tournament and it's uh sunday and you have to tee off what at 2 p.m or something like that like it's there's a lot of time to kill what do you do that morning hang out with charlie go for a walk maybe go get a coffee somewhere wake up late try to wake up late sometimes it's so hard to sleep because like you start thinking about it um i like to just kind of hang out maybe watch a little bit of tv um foam roll stretch kind of get my body ready make sure it's loose case time a friend yeah our parents our parents

try not to think about it as much as you will the two of you talk to each other It's more feeling out what that other person kind of needs. So if I know she needs her space, I'll just be like, you've got this, kick ass, you know, I'll be waiting for you after. But then if like, I know she's not doing well, we'll have like a little bit of a pep talk. But I mean, at this point, I'm like, kick ass like you got this, you know. Exactly. Take names.

Yeah. Is it ever a situation? where you're both you're both kind of need a little bit of support and like mom will go with one and dad will go with the other or something like that that's major so usually when both of our parents come out my dad's with just my mom's with me like i i'm always i'm very much so like attached to my mom i guess like when i'm playing golf like when she's at tournaments like i need her there in a way so has mom travel more yeah like i fly her out all the time when i'm playing When I was 8, 17, when I was on tour, my dad traveled my rookie year.

But then, I mean, you have, he has two young kids at home that, you know, need both of their parents, especially crucial times. And so I was sent out on my own at 19 and traveled on my own until Nellie joined the tour. And, I mean, they came out to majors, but so I maybe saw them out at events like four times a year at the time. Three times a year, actually, because we, no, twice a year. Yeah, and like we fly our mom out because my dad is my brother's coach, so they're together all the time. And it's just nice to have our mom out, too. She keeps everything really organized, too. Like, I just never forget anything when she's there.

Ellie's the queen at forgetting stuff. It's not that I want to. It's just like I have so much going on in my head that when I get there, I'm like, God. Mom, can you go back to a hotel? Can you go get my yardage book, please? I know that feeling all too well. Who are some people or influences that the two of you have looked up to? I mean, obviously your parents have been a huge influence on your life.

What about outside of that? Really? I mean, it is our parents. I love like Lindsay Vaughn's drive. I mean, how many more times could she get up after falling down? And those are like those are crashes. That's something that would scar just about anyone. And, you know, everything injured.

She would pick herself up, work even home. harder, put herself back up on the mountain. It was kind of around the time when I was getting injured a good amount. Um, and so I kind of, I almost needed that inspiration to look up to someone to continuously pick myself up, dust myself off and keep going. I love Tiger and Rory. That's like my two go to. But actually, Lindsay Vaughn followed Jess on Instagram, I think like a year ago and I don't think I've ever seen someone so happy. So I've never geeked out about meeting anyone. I'm like totally fine.

I'm like, hi, how are you? I met Lucy Vaugh, and to this day, people make fun of me for it because I was like stalking her with like puppy eyes and she's like, hi, how are you? And I literally barked out like, hi, can I get a picture? Well, I mean, that is one, one cool thing about the time that we live in and that everything is so connected. I mean, the two of you probably could reach out to any. athlete right now and there's, you know, a high likelihood you'd be able to get in touch with them

just through social media and anything else. I mean, I've experienced this through whoop where it's incredibly cool the people I've gotten to meet just through social media and people wearing whoop. And in some ways, that's how the three of us met. Well, yeah, because I had no idea how to like contact you to ask a question. And I was like, hmm, let's see, Instagram. what are my reply and they're very high yeah it's a great platform for sure and i love that like other athletes are helping other athletes i think that's it's really important yeah especially cross sport because it seems like all you can do is learn yeah exactly now professional golf is actually quite collaborative i've found like i've been blown away by that i've sat at a table with i don't know

Tony Fienau and John Rom last week. And they were talking about how they can improve each other's sleep and stuff. And I found that pretty cool, that these are two guys who later that day were like the top of the leaderboard, and they were actually trying to give each other advice. And in the world of tennis, I've seen it's actually not like that at all. It's not collaborative at all. And it seems almost closed off.

And so I'm curious on the LPGA, what's the vibe? I feel like we haven't been out in so long. that we don't know. But tennis, you always, like, have, I feel like it's secretive out there, but you always have, like, a team. You always have a physio, like, one physio. Like, for us, we share a physio with five other girls, you know? And out there, it's like the physio only works with that one person.

The coach only works with that one person. It's always just, like, about the players. So they're always in their own little bubble. Well, for us, like, my coach works with Jess, like, he would work with maybe, someone else and we're like okay with that because like our i guess our bubble like we obviously like to keep stuff private but it's not so closed off like tennis i think also tennis you play against that person and we're against a golf force yeah i can't affect anything that my opponent does maybe i mean you can kind of like you want to want to but at the end of the day like you still have to make puts

You know, you still have to hit the fairways. You are your own playmaker. Whereas, like, in tennis, it's more one-on-one, like, head-on. And, I mean, if we were a match play, like, maybe it might be different, you know, maybe... Solheim Cup. Yeah, I mean, we don't talk to the Europeans. Well, we did. Well, my daddy, his fiancé, was on the European team, so we did...

We were friendly. No, we're friendly, but we're not, like, sitting in each other's team rooms during the week. obviously. And like, you know, chatting about our day. We're in our own team. What's been your lowest recovery on Woop and why? Mine was 4%. And it was when I, we're not sure if I had the flu, if I had coronavirus or whatever, but my resting heart rate's usually like 45 lower. And at the time, it was 90. And I was and my HRV was like 32. No, my 19, excuse me. Those are big deviations from your baseline.

Huge. So that's my lowest. I think for me, it's like when I've traveled overseas and I don't get enough sleep on the plane. I mean, JetLeg's a killer. I think people really underestimate that, especially people who don't wear whoop. They kind of tell themselves they're fine. But when you can actually see it in the data, it's like really eye-opening. It's crazy. I went to, I flew to Shanghai last year and I was so tired and, or actually two years ago. And I woke up, probably at eight, went down to have breakfast for like 30 minutes by myself and then fell back to sleep for a nap at like nine because you're just so tired. Or last year when I flew, when we flew to Evian, we were rooming together. I could not stay awake. We,

probably flew in one in the morning and I was like my body you know when your body's like falling asleep but you're keeping your eyes awake and you're kind of like you're shaking your pain yeah your body's in pain trying to stay out oh my god it's it's the worst and I feel like the older I get the worst I struggle with it okay so you guys are going back on tour here shortly what uh what what's got you excited or nervous about the COVID-19 moment It's just like life as we know it is, it's gone almost. You know, like one, no fans is going to be weird. It's going to be like junior golf all over again.

The lack of just being able to like mingle with other players, just the normal stuff, not being able to go to a restaurant. I mean, not that we like go to restaurants. We're not going to be able to room together. Really? No, because if she tests positive and I'm in that room, I'm going to be out of a job. Yeah, yeah, that's right. But it's also the scary unknown.

Like, if you get it, like, you could possibly test positive for, like, a couple weeks, like, not being able. Like, you could test positive. I've heard up to about, like, three months. And then what? Like, are you stuck in that country or in that state or, you know, what if we're going to Scotland? What if we test positive in Scotland? and they're not going to let us leave. Well, watch your respiratory rate.

I mean, it's been a good data point. For sure. It has. It really has. And your recovery and when you see your HRV dip, I think the resting heart rate, I think, is really important to look at, too, because when you're fighting with something, your body is fighting with something,

your heart's working over time. And so you can really see, and that's what I found when I got sick, is just, I mean, 90 resting heart rate is so high. Just even in general, like, think about it, you go for a walk and look at what your heart rate's at. Think about 90 laying down a lot. So it's a great tool. I absolutely love using it. And I just learn more about myself.

It's not just a person, but also as an athlete. Well, this has been a real pleasure. I think the two of you are amazing ambassadors for the world of golf, and I'm sure an inspiration to a lot of young people out there as well who aspire to be professional athletes or successful athletes. So thank you so much for being on WOOP and thank you both for coming on the podcast. Thank you.

We appreciate everything. Thank you to Jessica and Nellie for coming on the WOOP podcast. We wish them a very healthy and successful return to the LPGA. A reminder, you can get 15% off a WOOP membership if used the code Will Amet, W-W-I-L-A-H-H, MED. Follow us at Woop at Will Ahmed on various social media platforms. Thank you for tuning in.