WHOOP Podcast - Josh Hart, Portland Trail Blazers guard, shares how WHOOP and an increased focus on recovery propelled him to his best season yet

Episode Date: April 20, 2022

Portland Trail Blazers guard Josh Hart is coming off the best season of his career, something he attributes to an increased focus on rest, recovery, and nutrition. He explains how WHOOP plays a critical role in his performance and tells us what he’s learned from his WHOOP insights both on the court and off. Josh details his dreams of being a professional athlete (1:55), nighttime practice sessions with his dad as a kid (3:15), his experience as a college athlete at Villanova (9:35), winning the 2016 national championship (12:06), getting his nutrition locked in (14:30), improving his sleep (15:58), the best game of his career and how his WHOOP data showed he was primed for success (18:52), eating habits (25:41), making sacrifices for better recovery (29:40), mindfulness and meditation (34:09), his advice to younger athletes (38:14), and getting in-game insights from WHOOP (41:23). Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

What's up, folks? Welcome back to the WOOP podcast, where we sit down with top athletes, performers, scientists, experts, and more to learn what the best in the world are doing to perform at their peak and what you can do to unlock your own best performance. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Woop, where we are on a mission to unlock human performance. We've got a great guest this week, Josh Hart of the Portland Trailblazers and Villanova fame. But first, a reminder, you can get 15% off a WOOP membership if you use the code will. That's WI-L.L comes with the new whoop 4.0. Okay, this week's episode, Josh Hart. Josh is coming off the best season of his career, something he attributes to an increased focus on rest, recovery, and nutrition. He explains how whoop plays a critical role in his performance and tells us what he's learned from his WOOP insights both on and off the court. Josh and I discuss his journey to the NBA and and how his dad would take him down to the courts late at night so they could practice together. Winning a national championship at Villanova and how his experience there prepared him for the league.

What he's learned about sacrifice and how that benefits the very best, how competition fuels him, and how he looks at his whoop data competitively. And we run down his whoop data from the best game of his career. It should come as no surprise that when he woke up, rested, recovered, and ready to go, he dropped 44 points on the Wizards. Okay, without further ado, here is Josh Hart. Josh, welcome to the Wolf Podcast. Hello, man. I appreciate you guys having me. I've been seeing it, and now I'm happy to be a guest.

We're lucky to have you. I've followed your career closely from Villanova and now a star in the NBA. Let's go back for a second here. Did you always have this dream of being a professional athlete being a star in the NBA? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely had the dream of being an athlete. I loved baseball growing up, so I played baseball and basketball, and then I finally kind of just got more serious about basketball, probably in my middle school. And then since then it was just like I would have played the highest level. And obviously that was the NBA. And my dad, you know, did an amazing job in terms of just helping me as much as he could, as much as his basketball knowledge led him to help me. And, you know, luckily I got there.

But now it was always the dream. So your dad, Moses, was a chef. and he'd come home, like, late at night, I understand, like 8, 9, 10 p.m. And you'd go out and shoot hoops with him at, like, sometimes as late as 11 p.m. And he'd read about how Michael Jordan, like, was working when other people was sleeping, so why can't Josh Hart? Is that right? Yeah, exactly. We lived down the street from a school called Montrose Christian, which was actually at the time, really good.

Stu Vedder was coach there, KED went there, Gravis Vasquez, you know, some. Yeah, sure. They were like a huge powerhouse in terms of high school basketball. So they had, it's called the annex. And it was like a little, it was really just a parking lot. Like it was just a big parking lot that people parked there for games and those kind of things. And I had two full basketball courts, you know, just concrete, outdoor courts. So, well, my dad would get home from work, you know, he'll drive up there, you know, park at half court, put his high beams on and just flat.

And so we have some light, you know, on the basketball, basketball hoop. just go out there and just shoot hoops or just do drills or do those kind of things for, you know, hours at a time. So there's something that was fun because I loved basketball and it gave me great time just to kind of hang out with him and grow with him. At what point did you realize you were really good? Probably sophomore year in high school.

I knew I was pretty good. And I knew all the definitely play at the next level. But in terms of like pro, I knew probably during or after my sophomore year. And I was like, all right, like, you know, I actually really have a chance to make it to the league. And I really have to lock in on the next year or two and really develop so I can be in that position to get there. Well, basketball is an interesting sport because height and athleticism play such an important role. And in high school, you know, it's a little unclear how your body's developing. It sounds like around sophomore year, you're thinking, okay, I've got what it

takes, when you were thinking about where to go to school, like, why did Villanova stand out? So the biggest thing for me was I felt that Coach Wright would help me develop in two areas. Obviously, you know, on the court was the biggest thing. They had a really good pedigree with guards. Daneback with Scotty Reynolds, Kyle Larry, Randy Foy, Mike Nardi, and I can just go down the list. You know, so they had a really, really good pedigree in terms of developing guards and those kind of thing, but also they were very high character. I knew I were going to really develop as a man and become my own person off the court. And that's something that really stood out to me.

And it was something that I kind of wanted to, you know, what am I kind of experienced to be like? You know, I was the first time, you know, living away from your parents really on your own. And it really shows you who you are. And I wanted to be around good people, high character people, a lot of people that he were recruiting were the same kind of person that I was. And that's kind of what I wanted. Because like I said, it was first time growing up, I mean, first time being on your own. And, you know, you really started to find yourself and find out who you are. And I, you know, wanted to be around high character people to help me, you know, find that.

What were some things you started to find about yourself? I mean, as a young man living away from home for the first time? There was a couple things. One, I realized, like, I was social, but, like, even now, like, I'm social, but I don't really have, like, real close friends. And that's something like I kind of realized that I never really let too many people in. And that's something I kind of wish I didn't do a little bit in college. You know, if you look at me now, all my friends date back since high school. You know, obviously I had my teammates at Illinois and guys that have really, you know, good bonds with.

And that, but, like, people that I talk to every day are just all people from high school. So I kind of learned that about myself. And I kind of wish I wasn't as closed off a little bit, you know, as I was then. So that's something I kind of learned and kind of wish I wasn't. But it was that. And then I started to realize that, you know, I was just kind of like my own person. I think a lot of times when you're growing up, you do what your parents. want you to do or you do or you follow kind of in your siblings footsteps and you do the stuff

that they do or you know hand me down stuff or do those things but I kind of really realized that you know I'm my own person I can make my own decisions and I really started to kind of become my own person I think that was the biggest thing if you think about the friends around you at that time what were they saying to you as you started to take off as a as a basketball player and become, you know, a national star. It was cool because teammates-wise, you know, you've been in a locker room than that. Like, usually, like, you always, you hype each other up and you do those kind of things. So whenever you're in the locker room, where you're on the court, like, you think you're the

guy and those kind of things. But it was cool. Just a friend that I had, they always would keep me level-headed. My wife now, my girlfriend at a time, would just kind of keep me level-headed. those guys, when needed, you know, knock that ego down to appropriate size. So it was kind of cool because I had a little bit of both, best of both words in that situation. Well, and it sounds like you met your now wife in college, which must have been a fascinating journey for both.

Oh, high school. High school, yeah. Wow, good for you. High school sweethearts, I guess. But that's an amazing life partner to find when you're in high school and have her be with you through your whole successful career and, you know, kind of see you through that whole journey. It's something cool because obviously I have like a, like I said, I'm really closed off. So I have obviously a really good bond with her.

Went to high school. We met each other, I think I was 15, 27 now. So we know each other for, you know, 12 years. We dated or I guess been together, you know, up to now, which is only know, almost, you know, going on 11 years. So, you know, someone I look to, you know, for all things, someone I confide in, you know, it's always good to have someone that, that knew you before, once you get to be a success, you know, sometimes you have the question why people are around. Are they around for, you know, because they're genuine people, are they around because

they want something for me. They want to live the lifestyle. They want kind of kickback or something like that. So that's something that I was, you know, I was looking into a few. that's something I was always worried about and being able to have her someone that's known me since I was high school when I had no money that was paying for my that was paying for my meals or dropping me off at school or drop me off at the house and those kind of things it puts things in perspective and you know it's helped me you know get to to where I am you know it's

funny listening to you say that I mean it's crazy to think what a star you were at Villanova but at the same time you were worrying about you know meals and basic expenses when, you know, the NCAA in general was profiting off of your success and, of course, a lot of your teammates and other players. Like, do you look back on that now as a successful professional athlete who's obviously made a lot of money? Like, do you look back on that being kind of crazy or do you just sort of accept that's the nature of the program? Both. And obviously now it's changed with the NIL deals and those kind of things. people can get, you know, not paid, but they can get endorsed in those kind of things.

So it's better now. But in when I was there and, you know, the first couple years out, I was, I'm like, like, hey, I hate NCAA. Like, it is, because it's like it's like an age old, like argument, you know, people who, you know, weren't athletes or they weren't on scholarship. They're like, oh, you get your tuition and boarding and all that for free. So you had, you know, you had those arguments and then you also like I you know I get that like these these these these this this NCAA you know they're making billions dollars millions of dollars off of you know the individual and you know people there you know they were especially a Villanova like you know people are well off like they're not missing meals or they're not worried about that you know that

for us like you know we weren't what we didn't come from like well off backgrounds I had no actual, you know, money. Think about it this way. I played in the National Championship game where we beat Carolina and Chris Jinger's hit, you know, the buzzer beat it, which is probably iconic shot.

Yeah, probably one of the most bad and like the Christian later shot, like one of the most iconic college basketball shots ever, right? And Chris ended up not really playing professional or having like a short stint playing professionally. But think about like,

this guy, and when he did it, he was a junior, came back for a senior year, but this guy hit one of, if not the biggest shot ever in college basketball. It was all over the place and he couldn't get anything from it. Some of these guys won't have the opportunity to play professionally, but they're good players who can generate revenue for themselves and use that as a stepping stool, you know, for the next step in their life. You mentioned the famous national championship game, what was that whole experience like for you, winning the national championship? I mean, March Madness is so iconic in itself. I think you were the leading score on that team, and of course, that was a big deal. Yeah, it was, it was cool, man.

We were on top of the world, so to say, for that whole year. But it was fun. I mean, you watch college basketball, especially March Madness, you watch that since you work. kid. You know, you know, you know, at the end of the tournament, they played a one sounding moment song. You have all the highlights from the tournament. You have the upset. You have everything that goes around. Everyone's watching March Madden's. So to win that and win it in the fashion that we did, it was just so surreal. It was just so cool. And I didn't realize how much weight that held, you know, with other teams, other NBA guys and doing those kind of things. Even now, people look at me, they're like, hey, man, you got an ask.

championship like it is this one of those things where it's like you carry it around with you and like people look at you like oh he's a winner oh he's a national champion oh he's this that and the other it was surreal at the time and even now well it's amazing so you go on to the NBA you're having the best season of your career right now so congratulations what's changed for you as a player in the NBA versus say your your college days and you're on whoop so we'll get into that in a minute but let's talk a little bit about training and recovery how you think about your body yeah so i have a really bad um a really bad sweet tooth uh and if you have anybody in college and all that they know like if you wanted snacks you wanted

candy ice cream and all that just go to just go to my dorm and i'll have just a plethora of uh all of that so in college and even like the first year or two when i was in l a eating habits were terror we're not good like and it was and it was weird because the villanova coach right and our strength coach coach shack they're very healthy they they had like the best out for us you know when we're having meal that hotels it'll be like grass fed beef it'll be like wild caught fish and those kind of things like it was just super super healthy and I still had a really bad sweet tooth so you know first couple years didn't really pay too much attention to it just did that but then after I got traded to New Orleans, I started really looking at my diet and hiring a chef and really

trying to figure out how I can be at my peak performance, but not, you know, not also just peak performance, but also peak recovery because the biggest thing with the NBA is always about recovery because you have 82 games, you know, not including preseason playoffs. You're traveling every other day, it feels like unless you have a homestand. So you're on planes. You're going to different times on, you're doing all these things. So the biggest thing for you to do is recover. And that's obviously eating right, hydrating. And kind of just, other things like infrared sonnet I bought that really helped, you know,

get toxins out of my body and stuff like that. So it's something that I really dialed in once I got to New Orleans, honestly. And actually, that's how I, you know, started with Wu, because Drew a Holiday with my teammate. And I saw him using it. And I was like, all right, like, that's cool. It tracks my sleep. It tracks my output. It does all those kind of things.

all right, like, let me try that out. And I've been doing it for the last couple of years. That's kind of how my thought process and my actions change from being a, you know, 18, 19, 20-year-old kid, loving candy to now trying to eat as healthy as possible, trying to get my sleep, trying to do those kind of things to help me be at peak performance. Well, it's been awesome to see you on Woop, and thanks for being part of our community. And talk for a second about sleep. What sorts of things have you found really help you with sleep?

And by the way, one thing I think is underestimated for fans about pro athletes. Like, you guys will play an 8 p.m. game. You're all jacked up in the fourth quarter to try to win the game. And theoretically, you should be asleep like, you know, 60 minutes after that game. So it's hard to go from that high of high in front of tens of thousands of fans to then all of a sudden, boom, being asleep. game days and travel days is always it's always kind of tough especially for for me how I play you know I'll take like some pre-workout type thing you know so I'll caffeinated drinks and stuff

yeah so like my body would be going 100 miles an hour and then my game's over at 9 o'clock 930 I get I get to my house at 10 10 15 sometimes you know the wifey or myself wants to eat and we go somewhere get dinner and we don't get to the house until like 11, 11, 30, 12. And that's like, I got I got to wake up at 9 the next morning. But I, but I'm sitting in my bed until 2 o'clock, like, just like, can't go to sleep. I'm just like uneasy, restless and all the things just because I'm just, the adrenaline is going from the game. So you have that when you do that and then you fly or you take the whole day of flying and I hate flying. So I'll go to sleep when I fly and then I land and I'm just like, well, I just slept for four hours. It's now 11 o'clock and I'm not

tired at all. So it's like the sleep is probably the toughest thing for me, but there's been a couple things that I've done in terms of just trying to, you know, get off my phone, you know, 30 minutes, 45 minutes before, trying to go to sleep or, you know, one of the products I work with it is the company Thorne, and they have this called Pro Recovery Drink that has, what's the ingredient that it has? Magnesium, melatonin. Magnesium, yes. Magnesium.

So I'll take that, you know, 30, 4, to 5 minutes before I go to sleep and that'll kind of help me just kind of relax and kind of get into, you know, going to sleep and help me get, you know, get to REM quicker and stay in REM and do those kind of things so my body can really recover. So it's sleep definitely is tough, you know, in the NBA with the travel and the games and all that. But you just got to try to find little areas, you know, to maximize it. Well, you shared some of your whoop data with us. You actually get like a lot of REM and slow wave sleep. So you're a very good sleeper.

Like you're averaging, you know, roughly over four hours of REM and slow wave sleep combined in night. And that makes you not just a great professional athlete, but a great sleeper, which often and those things can be correlated. March 13th, a couple weeks ago, you had your most points ever in a game. 44 points, great night. And you shared your whoop data. You had 91% recovery,

which was their highest since January. Your HRV was 130. Are you pulling up the data right now? Yeah, I'm pulling it up. Your resting heart rate 44 beats per minute. That's pretty damn low. And you got 2 hour 36. REM, two-hour, nine-minute slow-wave sleep.

So that was a nice cocktail of recovery right before that career high. Yeah, I mean, I don't think that was a coincidence. You know, I had a, you know, a heck of a game with having, you know, 91% recovery and those kind of things. And the biggest thing, like I said, is just the recovery aspect of it. And honestly, I didn't really put too much emphasis on it until I got. whoop and not because I'm like, oh, whoop, you know, I have to, I have to, you know, lock in or those kind of things, but because I'm able to see and actively see, you know, my REM sleep or

see my recovery or those kind of things, it makes me more conscious of it. So now it's like, you know, I feel like I'm an old guy. Sometimes I'm like, oh, I got to wake up at 9 o'clock or whatever, eh, not 9 in the morning. I'm like, all right, like, I try to be in bed by 10. I'm just like, I'm going to be in bed by 10. I'm going to have Netflix on or something, and I'm going to slowly go to sleep. So that means I can go to sleep by 11. I can get like a good 9, 10 hours in, get my REM sleep, and do all those kind of things.

So that was like the coolest thing was actually why, you know, I started not even about the performance, but it was the recovery aspect of it because sometimes you don't notice, you know, how bad you're sleep is. You don't realize how little you're sleeping until you actually see it charted. And then you're like, okay, wow, I can not do this at night. I can hop off the video games an hour early and it can make, you know, a monumental difference in terms of, you know, your recovery. So once I started seeing it, once I started tracking it, you know, that, okay, now I know what I have to do.

I have to do these things before bed or I have to try to be in bed by 10 o'clock or I have to try to take a little naps throughout the day if I have something where I have to wake up earlier and I can't get as much sleep. Let me take a nap during that day to help me get to, you know, the recovery that I want. Yeah, I mean, you described that so well. The key theme for us is, you know, you can only really manage what you measure. And all athletes will say recovery is important, but then if they don't have something to measure it, to kind of understand what are the ins and outs of my recovery, there's just a lack of accountability.

And you described it so well, just this sort of personal accountability you now feel seeing your recovery and thinking about sleep every day. You know, I love that. And it was a lot of the inspiration for starting whoop. was this idea that athletes are going to want this, one, because they understand recovery, but two, because they're also competitive creatures, right? And, you know, we want to know what's going on in our bodies. And if someone's faster than you, the same way someone's better than you, it's sleeping, all of a sudden you're thinking, well, maybe I should be getting more sleep

than this person, right? Maybe I should be recovering faster than this person. So it changes the paradigm for which you're even thinking about your body. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, like, said we're competitive people we're competitive creatures. So even like in the past year, in New Orleans, Garrett Temple uses Wu. So there would be that time. We'll wake, we'll get into the facility

and we're like, yo, what's up? And then we would just shout like, yo, 86. So I just know, oh, and like we're in like a little group, we're like, oh, he had 86% recovery. And I don't think I'm like, I got, I got to outdoing tomorrow. I got to get my good, I got to

be in bed by this time. I got to do those kind things. And it's, like you said, it's cool, it's fun, especially when you have a friend or two that are in it and you're in a group or you guys talk all the time and you kind of share that. And you're like, and you can look like, yeah, like one of my good friends, Stan Williams, who's actually the straight coach at New Orleans right now, he had it. And we'll go back and forward with that. Or he'll look at, he'll like, peer into mind. It'll be like, dang, bro, you ain't get no sleep last night. I'm like, yeah, man, I was tossing and turning. And I couldn't, I couldn't, I ain't go to sleep to two.

game day you know what I mean so it's cool especially when you have people that use the product and you can kind of compete and kind of have fun with it then it makes it even an even better experience because you're able to maintain and track your own progress but also kind of compete against you know your friends with it when you wake up with a lower recovery than you'd like even on a game day for example how do you mentally handle that what are and do you change anything about your behavior or what you'll do that day before the game Sometimes, like, especially I feel like this year, my routine was more downpack. Like, I'll go to shoot around.

I'll come back, chill for an hour or two, maybe play some video games. And now I have to sleep like two hours, like, hour and a half. I have to get like this little window went. And when I got traded, like that was all trying to get time zones and all that. I was trying to like switch on my routine and all that. But it was like, I'll wake up and I'll see like, dang, I only had. you know, 50% of recovery. I only had 60% of recovery.

So I'm like, all right, let me, let me tack on like 30 more minutes into the snap. And then do that. Let me, let me, let me, let me, like I said, I'll take pre-workout or, you know, pre-garing drink. I'm like, maybe I might need a little bit more. And like, there'll be, there be games where I'll like, I'll take, you know, my pre-workout. And I just, and I know I didn't sleep well. I know I didn't get a good sleep or whatever.

I'll be like, I'll have that. And then I'll have like a little Celsius on. top so I'm amped so I'm just like I'm I'm just running on it the only bad thing about it is like it will kind of make up for not having that recovery but then I know if I did that like I'm going to be up until three o'clock in the morning three o'clock in the morning three o'clock in the morning but um you know it goes into my like thought process in terms of like how I structure my day just because I'm like all right if if I sit there with 50% recovery I know I'm not going to be myself. I'm not going to be at peak performance later that night. So I try to

structure my day around that in terms of taking naps or the things I eat or drink before a game just because I'm like, I know I have to have even some extra fuel because I wasn't able to recover. I wasn't able to get back to where I wanted to in terms of, you know, recovery-wise. In terms of what additional stuff you might eat, what would that include? And this is one of the bad habits I have like I'll eat like a lunch at like 12 and then I'll have a game at 7 right and I'm sometimes I'm not a great eater like I'll try to eat healthy but I'm not a great eater in terms of like I'll eat a meal and then like game days I don't eat until after the game so like I would have one meal and like I'll get to the arena and like I have I always had

like peanut butter and jelly popcorn and Mike Nikes like I like I like I'll have like you know those kind of things that I'll snack on that but I know like if I don't have something I'm like let me have some type of like protein bar let me have like some more fruit like a banana that helps you know just you know with you know cramping but also just helps with sustaining energy and those kind of things so I'm like all right if I don't do that then I have to make sure I if I'm snacking I do that or I'll just have an extra meal when I get to the facility like I need something to kind of power me through this game or this workout or whatever it is So those are like the kind of thing that I would kind of do.

Like I said, I'll take the pre-work, you know, my little pre-game workout drink. And then if I need the added bump, I also have like a little Celsius or something like that, a little caffeinated energy drink. But, you know, that's something that all varies in terms of, you know, how well I recovered. Who are other athletes that, you know, you admire or you listen to or, you know, resources for you as you think about becoming the best version of yourself? Yeah. So Drew Holliday, who was one, who takes amazing care of his body.

Kyle Lowry, someone who, again, takes. Another who's been at the highest level. Exactly. Another whoop guy is someone who's been at the highest level for, I don't know how many years, but someone who takes care of his body religiously. Who else? Jalen Brunson, some of the same. So like those guys, and even my year with Brown,

I was able to kind of see how he kind of takes care of his body, the thing that he puts into his body, the time they puts in the gym, not just on the court, but in the weight room or doing flexibility stretches in the treatment room. So I'm seeing those guys, and I'm taking bits and pieces from those guys. You ever pick Mike Mencius's brain? This Mike Mancius is LeBron James' training. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a little bit, not too much. I wish I did a little bit more because he's someone, obviously, who's at the top of his field.

he's someone obviously working with one of the best athletes just athletes in general of all time so i wish i was in the space i am now yeah when you met him yeah three four years ago when i was uh in la with those guys and i could have picked the brain even more so and mike mike got on whoop in like 2015 and lebron was probably one of our first like hundred users it was pretty crazy just how early they adopted Woop at the time and certainly was like validating for us because we were this little startup no one had heard of at the time. Yeah, not definitely, man, because I know those guys, the way that they work, the way that they take care of his body is just something that's so, it's just crazy to see. Like I said, I saw it firsthand, you know,

only for a year, but you know why he's at the level that he is for as long as because he take it he's able to take care of his body you know that much and obviously you know it helps when you have that bank row and you have you have so many resources you can kind of do it but um you know even when you're not there you're able to you know at that level you're able to do take small bits and pieces of it whether that's the work that you put in a gym or just you know taking little pieces of like or just wearing a whoop and being more conscious of your sleep or being more conscious of um your workout or your patterns and doing those kind of things so Yeah, man.

I wish I was able to pick their brain a little more. Well, you're well on your way. You know, the thing I've found in getting to meet, you know, a lot of professional athletes and be around that world is it seems like it's as much about, like, sacrifice and time when it comes to recovery as anything else. You know, it's choosing not to go out. It's choosing to go to bed earlier. It's choosing to stay for two hours after the game instead of 15 minutes. You know, it's like, it's so time-consuming to treat your body the way you guys treat your bodies at that level. There was a couple times, like, I went out.

I actually don't really go out during season, but there's a couple of times that I went out. And I didn't even wear my whoop. Like, I know that I wear my whoop everywhere. But, like, it was like a three or four-day span where I was just like, I'm not putting my whoop on. Because, like, I know I'm going to, I know my recovery is going to be terrible. I'm going to be in the red. I'm going to be at, like, 2%. and then I'm like I'm gonna feel bad

and then I'm gonna visually see it and I'm like yo this feels even worse so it didn't do that but no it takes sacrifice because it's like I'm not gonna go out I'm not gonna go out you know with some of my teammates because I need to get it you know because I had I especially myself like how hard I play in games like I need my rest like I take a beating

in terms of just physically just how I play so I need you know to let my body you know rest and just relax So you're going to be telling me, you know, your teammates are going out and you can't because you're like, yeah, I got to get to bed. I got to get some sleep. Or there's going to be certain activities that you would want to do, but, you know, you know, yeah, I probably shouldn't because it's not going to help me out. Whether it's in terms of recovery or whatever it is, like it's not going to help me out. So you always have to have that sacrifice.

And I don't think there's a professional athlete in this world, honestly, who's got to where they are. without sacrificing anything, with doing everything that they wanted. That's not how it's not how it works. And I didn't know how bad my sleep was until I started seeing it on Woot. But now it's, I also see how good it is. I also see the benefits from sacrificing. So it's not like I'm sacrificing and I don't see the benefits of it at all. I don't reap the reward of it.

I'm able to see how good my sleep was. Or I wake up feeling refreshed or I don't wake up feeling tired. And I'm able to kind of be at my best in terms of on the court just because I sacrifice. And I was able to kind of let my body relax. I was able to do better, you know, just because of that. Yeah, I mean, really well said. And if you look back on the last, let's call it 10 or 12 years, like have there been certain ways that you've judged your overall health and fitness?

I mean, obviously looking at whoop data for the past few years, that's one way to judge your health and fitness. I know some athletes who, like, they say if they're at a certain weight, they know that's their fittest weight. I know some athletes that have, like, you know, certain weights that they want to be able to lift, like, oh, if I'm benching this or squatting this, or if my 40 time is this, do you have any of that as a notion or for you, is it more about how you feel? Yeah, for me, it's more about really more about how I feel. And obviously that, you know, that thought process is always just dependent on the person and their, beliefs and those kind of things. But for me, it's just about how I feel because I could go to the gym, you know, at the basketball player, I can go to the gym, I can sit there, I can rep, you know,

225 or do, you know, 400 pound dead lifts or do something like that. And it doesn't translate onto the court or do those kind of thing. So I try not to track in terms of what my weight output is, you know, in the weight in the weight room or what my body weight is. Granted, I want to have like a target body weight of, you know, between 215 and 220, 225. So it's like, you know, fairly narrow range. The least I want, yeah, fairly narrow, you know, it's like a 10-pound window. But it's more so just about how I feel. And obviously, when I'm, you know, able to track, you know, my output and my recovery

and do those kind of things, it's easier to do that because I'm, I know I'm going to be waking up for a refresh night when I get good sleep where I see those kind of things. So that's kind of what I do, just more so just the tracking with, you know, obviously, whoop, but, you know, more so just how I feel, you know, when I wake up. Do you have any mental practice, like visualization or some kind of mindfulness, meditation, anything like that? Not yet. And that's something that I was always, you know, my parents were a little bit old school. So I was just always just keep it, you know, just keep it moving and I, and I didn't really think too much of it but especially now um i'm starting to try to be a little bit more in tune

to my mental health side of it and you can you can ask my wife and she hates it she wants me you know i'm a very private person i don't talk ever i don't really talk too much about my problems or those kind of things so so that's something that i think is the next step for me i you know i worked on eating habits i worked on trying to focus on on, you know, getting better sleep, getting better recovery, those kinds of things. I think the next obstacle for me to work on is having people to talk to, like, whatever, the therapist, you know, team-wise, or, you know, using some of the apps like calm or headspace or doing those kinds of things, just kind of really start to feed myself mentally

because physically it's one part, you know, it's one part of it, but especially during the season like ours, a lot of it is mental. So I think that's the next thing that I'm going to try to tackle. I would if I were you. You know, I certainly know plenty of athletes that don't have a formal practice, but I can't think of a professional athlete who I've met who started trying that, again, whether it's a visualization practice or some kind of meditation, and who hasn't found it beneficial in one way or another.

That doesn't necessarily mean they do it before every single game or every single morning or whatever. but it's sort of like a new tool in your toolkit, you know, the same way that you've figured out a few things to do before bed or you've figured out a few foods not to eat. It's a tool that that you can sort of rely on from time to time. And who knows, maybe it becomes something you do all the time. There's a decent amount of athletes that I've talked to that do things like that. And, you know, growing up and before I kind of actually started, you know, seeing it, I always felt like, oh, like, vigilational, like, you know, meditating. I always thought it was like the monk style, like, sick, crisscross,

Abbasos, like, and do that for, you know, 45 minutes to an hour. Like, that's always how I thought, and it was a really ignorant way of thinking. But now, like, you know, I'll talk to people and they, and something that they do is not even, it might just be them waking up five minutes earlier and kind of just sitting there and just thinking about how they can conquer the day or doing, doing, doing, little things like that where it's something that's even not time-consuming, something that's, you know, takes a couple minutes out your day and it just kind of helps them mentally. And that's something that I feel like, you know, I could do even though, you know, I'm on the run, you know,

a lot of times, especially during the season, I'm on to, you know, on to go doing those kind of things. But, you know, waking up five minutes earlier and, you know, just kind of sitting there not being on my phone, just kind of, you know, in a quiet room and doing those kinds of things, and just kind of thinking of, you know, things I can get better at and doing those kind of things. It's something that, honestly, I should really do. I'm saying to now. I should really do it. Practice what I preach.

But it's something that I think I definitely, you know, I'm going to try to tackle. Well, you tried and you let me know how it goes. We also see a positive response within whoop data. Like typically people who meditate sleep better or they'll have a lower resting heart rate or a lower respiratory rate. So there's some general health benefits, too, independent. from performance. I'll say this. I mean, I've now interviewed and gotten to spend time with a lot of high performance people. Yes, sports, but also business leaders and elsewhere. And I've just been shocked how many people have some kind of meditative practice in their life. And often it's

people you would never expect. People come across as like total killers. And here they are doing this sort of woo-woo thing in the morning. Last question for you. If you're talking to a star college athlete right now what advice are you giving him about the road to making it i'll probably say just two things in terms of actually what if it's one on the court and you know the off the court and we talked all the time you know this whole podcast by the off the court but on the court the biggest thing i would say is just find your niche in this league because it's something that, you know, this, this actually, it really resonated me. I was in my senior year of Illinois, we played in Wells Fargo for some of our games,

the arena that the Sixers playing. So when we did, when we would play down there the day before we would practice there and do those kind of things, though we would shoot around there. So one day we did that and then the Rockets were playing Philly that night. So we saw there, we, you know, me and a couple of other seniors, Chris Jenkins and their rentals and coach right um we were able to see kind of their shoot around and pat bev uh pat bev you know talking shit however pat betb does to everybody that and he and everybody that's going to listen to him right um and he says send to coach right and he was just like not everyone

can be a james target but anybody can be a pat beth like i'm getting paid being a pat bev and i kind of looked at that i'm like i said like that's that's a real that's a real thing because you know some people are gifted scores you know some people are just gifted physically like KD, just like body types, Yonis, those kinds, people are gifted just physically that, no, I can't compete with, but you can find your niche. And like mine is, you know, rebounding, defensive intensity, playmaking, transition, doing those kind of things. So my thing to those guys would be find your niche, find what you're good at in this league

and do that to the best of your ability. And when you do that, you know, that leads to winning, that leads to you getting paid. And that's, you know, two things that we all. you know in this league we all want so there's that part of it and then the other part is really lock in in terms of how you take care of your body and like I said I wish I did it you know right when I got to league like right when you get to league get a chef find you know people to talk to in terms of mentally and make sure your mental health is right you know get a you know get a whoop or get something that you're able to kind of track your performance and your sleep and those

kind of thing they're really lock in on um you know how your body goes because obviously one day the ball's going to stop bouncing for everybody but we're only going to go as far as our body lets us take us so we got to make so we feel our bodies to make sure that's going to be as long as possible so those would be the two things that make sure you find your niche and make sure you take care of your body and make sure you take care of your mind great advice man and and this has been a real pleasure for me and i hope we uh we get to connect in person you let me know next time you're in boston or or likewise when i'm in a city where you're playing it'll be fun to meet up But thank you for being on Whoop, and thanks for coming on the podcast.

Yeah, man, thanks for having me, and thanks for the product. For me, I always talk to, you know, like, we have a performance lady in Portland. I'm just like, I think Whoop is the best. And I'm like, and it's most convenient for athletes because you have other things like oil ring, but it's like, I can't hoop in an oil ring. I can't work. I can't do weights in the oil ring or those kind of thing, like Apple Watch. I can't do all that.

But like, if you see me, I'm wearing my whoop all the time in games. I actually have it under my sleeve with the arm strap. So thank you for, like I said, have me on and thank you for the product, man, because I know I love it. I know there's a lot of athletes that love it that you don't even know, love it.

So thank you. Thanks to Josh for coming on the WOOP podcast. If you enjoyed this episode of the WIPP podcast, be sure to leave a rating or review. Don't forget to subscribe. You can find us on social at Woop, at Will Ahmed. and you can get 15% off a WOOP membership if you use the code will. That's W-I-L-L.

All right, folks, that's all for now, and we will see you next week.