WHOOP Podcast - Leadership, Longevity, and Life as a Footballer with Ali Riley

Episode Date: June 26, 2024

On this week’s episode WHOOP Global Head of Human Performance, Principal Scientist Kristen Holmes is joined by women’s soccer star, Ali Riley. Ali currently captains the New Zealand National Team and Angel City FC. She has represented New Zealand at 5 FIFA World Cups, 4 Olympic Games, and will be headed to Paris this summer. In 2023, Ali led the New Zealand National Team to the country’s first-ever World Cup match win. Kristen and Ali discuss Ali’s state of mind ahead of Paris (1:35), representing the New Zealand National Team (4:27), life as a student-athlete and national team player (10:27), advocating for yourself (15:28), dealing with nerves (18:23), Ali’s leadership style (21:11), Ali’s professional career (28:57), nutrition and Ali’s cookbook (38:04), using WHOOP to maximize performance (44:34), the power of social media (47:49), Caitlin Clark and women’s sports (58:54), improving longevity in sport (1:02:14), and thinking about a final game (1:05:22).Resources:Ali’s InstagramAli’s Cookbook Follow WHOOPwww.whoop.comTrial WHOOP for FreeInstagramXFacebookLinkedInFollow Will AhmedInstagramXLinkedInFollow Kristen HolmesInstagramLinkedInSupport the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

What's up, folks? Welcome back to the WOOP podcast, where we sit down with top performing people. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Woop. We're on a mission to unlock human performance. If you're thinking about joining Woop, you can visit Woop.com to sign up for a free 30-day trial. Use those insights to improve your health. On this week's episode, WOOP, Global Head of Human Performance, Principal Scientist, the fearless Kristen Holmes is joined by women's soccer star Ali Riley.

Allie captains the New Zealand national team in Angel City FC. She has represented in New Zealand at five FIFA World Cups for Olympic Games and will be headed to Paris this summer. In 2023, Ali led the New Zealand national team to the country's first ever World Cup match win. She's also a cookbook author who is committed to using her platform to help create accessibility to healthy food options and advocate for women in Sport. Kristen and Allie discuss Allie's state of mind ahead of Paris and what it means to represent New Zealand, advocating for yourself as a student athlete, leadership styles and handling nerves,

nutritional habits in Allie's cookbook, social media and connecting with fans, they touch on how it has brought more attention to women's sports, and how Whoop has been a key part of Allie's longevity. If you have a question with the answer to on the podcast, email us, podcast whoop.com. Call us 508-443-4952. Here are. Kristen Holmes and Allie Riley. Allie, Paris is a few weeks away. What's your state of mind? Oh my gosh.

While I'm trying to stay healthy, of course, selection is in a few days or in about two weeks. So, you know, you never want to take anything for granted. But if I am selected to go, it will definitely be my last. I cannot, I cannot continue another cycle. But I think it would be such a special way to kind of round out what has been such an unexpected and amazing and overwhelming career with the New Zealand national team. And I really, really hope I'm on that plane and get to represent my team probably for one of the last times at that level. And yeah, I think after hosting the World Cup last year to have another opportunity. to make history, to just have another opportunity to represent the country that means so much to

me, even though I obviously wasn't born there, don't have the accent. But, yeah, I really, really hope I'm doing everything I can so that I could be selected for the Olympics. I mean, this is going to be your fifth Olympic Games. Yes. And you participated in five World Cups. Did you make the team when you were 10? Like, how is this even possible? I'm turning 37. So I wasn't that young compared. to some of these amazing phenoms that are coming out on this world stage at such a young age. But yeah, just my senior year of high school, I started, my dad sent a DVD to the coach of the youth New Zealand national team, got called in, had never met anyone, just flew to Australia for a few games to try out. I still, I can't believe I was brave enough to do that.

But the next year was the women's World Cup 2007 in China. And, you know, I couldn't say no to that. So it has been, it has been a long, a long journey. But yeah, it's, it's been amazing. It's really hard to reflect on it and not get emotional, especially with the World Cup in New Zealand last year. Yeah. Well, I can't wait to talk more about that.

I, you know, when I consider just, you know, knowing, you know, kind of the mental, physical and emotional toll, just one cycle takes, you know, like, it just, I can't, when I was reading your bio and I was learning more about you, I just, I was like, this is like superhuman to, to, to be able to endure and stay healthy and be able to be available for this length of time is, is really a testament to, you know, your preparation and your preparation and your, you're, you know, how you're caring for your body. And so I can't wait to learn more about the things that you do, you know, because this is really a case study worth dissecting. So you have dual citizenship. Yes. So you're both American and, and the Kiwi. I also played in Sweden for

about eight years. So I also have my Swedish citizenship. So not that I can play for the national team, but it's really cool since my fiance is from Sweden. So we can spend time there and maybe one day return there. So yeah, I feel like. Jason Bourne, like, with my passports. Totally. So what made you decide? I mean, I feel, you know, as an American, I'm like, why aren't you playing on the U.S. national team? So how to do, you know, what made your dad decide?

Did he send a DVD to the U.S.? I want to make them regret that they didn't. I never had the opportunity to play for the U.S. Obviously, I have citizenship, but I was never called in. I never did ODP. I'm not even sure. I think the club system is so different now. But I never did any development, national, team, nothing at the youth level. I got recruited to Stanford, but it was a very kind of you

might not play, kind of at the bottom of the list type situation and just worked my butt off. And so, yeah, my dad read some article that New Zealand was going to start investing in their senior team and in an under 20 team because this was the first under 20 World Cup. There was youth international tournaments, but this was the first under 20 women's world. Cup in 2006 in Russia. And so that that was kind of how it started because there was no, I was never going to play for the U.S. I never, that was never kind of on my radar or anything.

And then, of course, once I played for the under 20s and started playing at Stanford, I guess there could have been a moment there where a coach could have said like, hey, but I think I completely understand some players maybe waiting and hoping and working. and working towards the U.S. national team, you know, the best team in the world. But I'm not the kind of person who would say no to playing at a World Cup. So in 2007, I, you know, kind of started that journey and couldn't look back and have never looked back. It's like been amazing to see the development from going to that World Cup in 2007 and just

like being happy to be there to then hosting a World Cup and being like, no, and making history and hopefully setting up the next generations to do even better at the next tournaments. I mean, that is, that's incredible. You know, why do you think football slash soccer in New Zealand was just not as popular? It's just that is it because rugby and field hockey, you know, some of these other sports are just more resourced? Yeah, definitely. I think rugby is obviously the sport and then cricket and rugby for women now has become

really popular. The team won their home World Cup as well. And I think being a small country and being isolated, it is, of course, soccer is is the world sport, the global sport, but it is hard if you're not growing up seeing it and you don't have kind of those nearby countries and those rivalries. Of course, Australia was a team that we kind of could hang with the first few years I was playing, but they really have then gotten the investment and the growth and you're seeing the return now. Absolutely. So it's something I think I don't feel the investment is quite there yet. It's something that I hope the World Cup would change. And you have to change your mindset. I mean, you're seeing it even in the U.S. with a team

that has won multiple World Cups, but only this league has been able to survive more than three years. So it's about the fans. It's about engagement. And for me, it's really about investment. And so now I think, I hope that we've proved a point with the attendance records that were set at the World Cup. But it is hard to compete with those other sports. And I think, of course, you will know, a lot of times when you look at sports, it's the men, the men set the tone. People follow men's sports. Sports is a male-dominated industry. And our men soccer team isn't a top team, hasn't had a lot of success, hasn't quite.

qualified for the last World Cup. So again, if it's about a mindset, but society, if you're like, oh, sports, men, rugby, cricket, whatever, like, you might not be like soccer. And the prize money, FIFA, for qualifying for a World Cup for the men, it's a ton of money. It can be, you know, game changing for the Federation for the nation, whereas the prize money for the women, we're fighting. We're barely at 30% of what the men get. So qualifying for a World Cup, if your men aren't doing it, you're not getting the money and the investment, even from FIFA, our own global body.

So it's like, yeah, you can think about it from the bottom up. You can think it from the top down. But yes, we need to shift things, I think, globally, but also hopefully, and we've been a part of this now as a football ferns. We've got to shift something in New Zealand as well. And we as the players are really trying to do that. the players who've come before us and not experience the success we have or been able to play professionally, it's really changing. I hope. Yeah. You know, I think for some athletes, you know, they really take that support for granted, you know, how well resource they are. And, you know, you've really had to fight, you know, and this has not been a short fight. This is a really long fight that you've battled. Just at the beginning of it. I know. Truly. Yeah. Obviously, when you're younger,

you're playing on national team. You were also competing at Stanford. So you were doing you know, how is that to balance? You know, being a student athlete at Stanford is not trivial. Like, it's a lot of work. And presumably you were also, you know, flying to New Zealand and taking part in training trips and various tournaments. Talk a little bit about how you balanced all of that. And what kind of challenges did you face? It was really, really hard.

And from what I heard from players in the league now, it has changed a lot in terms of teachers' understanding. And I think sport, of course, with the shift. in probably social media has had a huge impact. But I think just being able to see, especially women's sports too, more on TV. And there's understanding there's a future. There's opportunity, hopefully for women now. And so I think teachers and academic institutions, even in high school, you know, we've Alyssa and Jaze Thompson, both were still in high school when they came to play for Angel City.

And they're playing for the national team. There's been a shift to support. these young athletes, just like you're supporting them in their academic endeavors. So with the athletics, I think this was quite a while ago now when I was doing it. And of course, I had really understanding professors. But it was, it was. And even some of my New Zealand teammates really experienced, like, you cannot miss this final. And it's like, whoa, I really want to represent my country on the world stage and be able to be

available for selection for a World Cup, for an Olympic Games. Like, yes, students are still going through it right now. But I think, yeah, the travel, yeah, just when you're at that age, your body is growing, is changing, is developing. You have different gym programs or different philosophies in terms of recovery. Like at Stanford, we're lifting super heavy and really into ice baths where, you know, I played professionally in Sweden. There's not a lot of ice as a recovery method. Then, you know, you go pro and it's, and as you get older, how you're lifting. It's very, very different.

I have to maintain. I can't, we're not doing Olympic lifting, you know. So I think all of that as a young person, all of those different influences you're getting. Yeah. Different information. And a lot of it can all be based on science, but there can be complete opposite viewpoints. And so I think, and again, my love for the whoop. And this is like, you know, I'm not sponsored.

This is like something that I just love. It's like my best friend. And these kind of support systems, I think, have helped me understand my body. And you talk about having a long career. I think we can talk about successful careers right now in sports until we're making the type of money that the men do. Successful career could be having a short, hot, you make a shit ton of money, but you can't have the longevity because you don't know how to take care of your body and you're

not getting the right information. Or, yeah, I'm never going to earn over 10 years. I'm not going to earn the amount of money that some of my colleagues in the NWSL are earning now. But having a long career and experience where I've experienced, I've experienced, I also have to view that as success. I've done what I love for so many years. And so I think comparing how I was as a teenager and in my early 20s to how I am now and how much I know about my body and I can make decisions, I think that is what is so different from being in a college environment and being young. and you kind of feel like you have to do what people tell you. Yeah, it's so empowering.

You know, I work a ton with Florida State University soccer. And, you know, I think you raise a really important point that there needs to be this triangulation between, you know, your university coach, the high performance team at the university and the national team staff, right, and the individual, right, player. So, you know, and I think, you know, and that's, I think, the benefit of these data, you know, is like we don't have to really guess how an athlete is adapting to travel. Like we, I mean, we're literally using the data when they're going from, you know, Tallahassee, Florida to Dublin, Ireland, you know,

we're giving them some grace period to adjust to the new time zone. And we're using the data to kind of help us understand how they're adapting to the new time zone. And when are they actually ready to train versus when do they need some more, you know, athletes that might need me more time. And so, you know, have they returned to their baseline sleep? Like, you know, it's all these things that we know are actually going to contribute, potentially could contribute to, you know, an injury or, you know, or certain like diminished performance levels or, you know, just even the back end of the tournament. Mental health,

all of that, right? You know, we're just at such a, I think, a cool inflection point where, you know, kind of technology is really helping guide, I think, some of these decisions with regard to the athlete and as a result, we're able to keep athletes healthier. But I think, you know, the fact that athletes now have these data and can really, hopefully advocate for themselves, you know, in the absence of maybe the infrastructure that we're talking about. And have you had instances where, you know, just across your time where, I mean, it sounds like just getting your finals moved or, you know, you've had to advocate for yourself at so many different points in your career, you know, maybe talk a little

bit about just what that process looked like for you and, you know, challenges or, you know, things that you learned, I think, along the way. It is scary as a young person to advocate. for yourself, or as someone new to a league, a rookie, or wherever you are, if you're not kind of at the end of your career, because you feel like you have so much to lose. And it's completely understandable. And looking at what has happened in the NWSL with abusive coaches. I mean, we're talking about advocating for yourself as a human, as a player, as a woman at these different levels.

And so I think even then taking that down to just the simple. saying to your coach, I don't feel good to train. And that's like, oh, are they going to think I'm weak? Are they now not going to start me? Like there feels like there's so much writing on every type of, if you try to give feedback. And it's so scary. And oftentimes we, well, I can tell you, I'm an overtrainer. You have to pull me off the field. I'm the first one on the field. I'm the last one on the field. And I think I'm lucky that I have. have been able to be relatively injury-free for a really long time. But I think at the right time, at the right time, I made that adjustment and the whoop helped

me a lot with that with realizing just because my legs feel good or and again, I'm like, isn't my mind telling me that my legs feel good? Like now I have data saying my strain was too high. My recovery is low. And the jet lag, I could fly all over the world and be completely fine when I was younger. I hit some point probably around 26, 27, it would knock me completely on my back. And I can barely keep my eyes open. I'm out at training. And so now having this data and I can advocate, but be like, it's not just a feeling, you know. And of course, people, they should listen to your

feelings that shouldn't be ignored. But it just gives me confidence to come and be like, I am, when I'm at home and I'm in my own bed and I go to bed at the same time and I'm not jet lag and I eat the foods I like, I'm in the green almost every single day. I know that something is off. I, like, and I can let me, I'll try the warm up, but like, let me, you know, and now I do think that sport scientists and your strength, like, there is so much more knowledge and understanding, but just as someone who loves training and wants to be involved in everything, it's almost just I, like, am able to tell myself, like, no, like, you've got

to be careful or take a break or take a nap. Like, sometimes you can't. If you have a game and you wake up in the red, I'm still playing that game, but I know that I need to, you know, think of my recovery strategies after. And what am I doing during the day? Am I meditating a little bit extra longer, all those things? So I just think information helps along with that gut feeling to give me confidence to advocate for myself.

How do you deal with nerves? You play it in some super cool. venues. And, you know, you've been a part of a lot of firsts. You know, I just, you know, do you get nervous? I definitely get nervous. And I tell all the little girls and young players that I talk to, I definitely get nervous. I think what's helped me, which again is, is harder when you're a young kid. But when it, again, you want to get noticed by your high school coach or a college coach. And it feels like there's so much on the line. But I think loving soccer. the way I do and thinking about my form of meditation is gratitude and when I go into a game

when I'm like what the worst thing we always say like you score an own goal that's like the worst thing you can think of right or like cause a penalty like something like that and I'm like I will still go to training tomorrow like I my parents will still support me my fiancee still loves me like my friends like so my friends don't watch the games they don't even care that I'm a soccer player Like, I will be okay and I'm still going to love this game. And I know now from making so many mistakes. Like, I will get over it. No one will remember it.

And I mean, there's been some egregious pretty, some big moments. But everyone knows. Like, for me, I'm like, if I do my absolute best, that's all I can ask myself. But when I look in the mirror after the game, if I gave everything and I made a mistake. Like, and people get that too. Of course, it's going to be written about. There's going to be now of it. of it.

There'll be a beam. Exactly. The people whose opinion really matters, that's who you have to think about. It's your own and it's the people around you who you really, and your coach, of course, but your support system. And then I'm always like, I'm nervous because I care and I want to win, but I know I'm going to give 100% every time I step on the field at training in the gym, in a game. and that's what what gives me strength and calms me down.

I love that. That's such a beautiful perspective. And I think, too, like I find it, I think it's so hard not to attach your self-worth to outcomes and how you play. I mean, I know, I mean, that was the biggest struggle for me as a young athlete. Like, I would just feel like lesser of a human, you know? And how do you, I mean, it sounds like you've got such a great perspective around that and you've cultivated that over time.

What is your leadership style? And, you know, how do you, when you, I'd love to hear like, you know, let's pretend you're talking to a group of 500 young girls, you know, what are, what do you tell them about leadership? My leadership style is absolutely to serve my, my teammates. And in this case, my club. And for me, and it's my leadership style, I think, came out of my college coach. really recognizing that I was not the best player on the field,

but because I brought the best out of my teammates, I, in a way, was the best player on the field, or one of the most important, I should say. And so I think about how can you be a player that the coach has to have on the team, wants to almost has to have on the field. Of course, you have to have skill. And at this level, we're talking about elite athletes.

college elite athletes, but I think I want everyone to feel their absolute best to feel safe, to feel hurt, to feel valued. And because this isn't an individual sport, if one person is having a great game, but three or four are feeling, yeah, they're off or not feeling confident, like chances are you won't win. If players don't like each other or aren't communicating in a way that each other teammates respect or can understand or absorb, then the team won't do well. You really, your best, of course you can win if you have really good players, if people hate each other. But I'd say you're more likely to win if people are feeling good and feel like they're part of something. And so I think how can you be the best player and work really hard

and set an example? And of course, that's one part of it is being the best that you can be and doing everything, everything you can in your control. But how can you lift up the people around you? And if someone needs something, how can you listen? And I think what happens a lot in sports and in locker rooms is kind of that you talk about someone or you talk about a coach is a little bit different, but instead of talking directly to someone, you either gossip or you complain, negativity can be the, you know, easiest downfall. Complaining is so easy. Being negative is really easy.

Being positive when things are in the shit, that's really hard. Working hard when you don't want to, you know, when you're tired, that's the hard stuff. And so I think being someone that builds relationships with the people around you so that as you can become someone that people trust to say, give me the information, let me help you by guiding you to who you need to give that information to. Is your teammate really the person you need to complain to or is there something that you should tell the coach? or can I tell the coach for you or can I anonymously like and again this is maybe not at the youth level but I think just cultivating these skills of how do you if a teammate needs someone to practice their one v ones or you see something what is a way that you can communicate in a way that lifts them up encourages them and so I think for me there are those leaders who

drive a standard who are a little bit tough and those who aren't super vocal but lead by example. They stick every tackle. You know you can count on them to work their butt off. And I think I'm a communicator. I'm someone who will try to build a relationship with everyone from, you know, our operations person to our anyone at the front office to the last player who doesn't make the squad. Like, because I know how important if you want to be successful, every single person is. And them being valued is key and having purpose. And your purpose can't always be to start and to get the most time on the field. So I think my biggest priority is making the people around me feeling valued. I love that. It's so hard on teams because, you know, the ego is so powerful.

And when the ego feels threatened, we do really shitty things to one another, right? And that's, And that's, I think, when you're when you're on a team. And definitely what I try to transfer to my daughter is, you know, you raise so many good points. Like, be so good they can't ignore you. You know, like you have to build your competency. Like that is the only path forward when you're on a high performing competitive team. You must build your competency. And you just have to, that has to be your singular focus. Right. And, you know, I think we we often think about, oh, I want to be a leader. I want to be a leader. But you can't wish yourself into that position. Right. It's just it's, you know, it's just people. we're going to want to gravitate to you when you are proving that every single day you're going to show up and give your best. And I love the second, the other point that you make are around, you know, not talking about people behind Bill's back. Again, that's just a reflection of someone's insecurity, right? But it's funny, when I was coaching in college, I was a division one head coach for for many years. And that was a fireable offense. Like you would get cut from, You kicked off the team if you're caught talking behind your teammates back.

It's just little things like that are so destructive to your own learning, development, and progress that, you know, I don't think those, the consequences are firm enough in environments, you know, like even in a workplace. Like, you know, it's, it's just, there's just zero place for it. It can really create, like, poison in the locker room. And talking about going out onto a field or the pitch or a court, how are you going to, like, ask that your teammate, basic, I mean, we're sacrificing our bodies when we go out there every day.

Are you really going to give everything you have for your teammate if you can't say something you want to say to them to their face? And if you're doing it, other people are probably doing it too. And can you really trust that she is going to have your back and give everything for you? And that feeling, and again, talking about success. some teams are better than others you know some someone has to finish last but if you look at success or what and that could be depending on the level having a really good freaking experience in sport as a young girl i think that is so important and so that also is a version of success if everyone

loved each other worked hard did their best weren't as good as the other team but actually am like, well, I want to play again next year. And then next year. And then eventually you might get on a winning team or you don't play sport anymore, but you have the skills and the confidence, body image, all these things that help women in every line of work and every aspect of society. So I just, oh, the more young girls that play sports, the better. Yeah, I completely agree. I love that. We're going to talk a little bit about just your platform and, you know, just the content that you're creating that's just bringing more awareness to these topics. So just love your passion and everything that you're putting out of the world. It's so valuable. I have a daughter,

so I'm like, you have to follow Ali. So I just soak in her wisdom. So let's talk a little bit about your professional career. So how are you navigating that? Just obviously playing for the national team. You've got your professional season. What does that cycle look like? What does a year look like for you, I guess, and just talk a little bit about your experience so far and where the growth has been. Well, when I got drafted out of college, I was playing in the league before this that folded. And I went over to Europe and it was a very different experience. That's probably a whole other podcast worth of discussion. But I playing in England for Chelsea. I've been in Sweden, England, and Germany. And yeah, I learned so much. I learned a new language. But,

But just the football, the soccer was so different. And I really pushed myself, I think physically, emotionally, you know, was the first time I was on a team when I had a serious injury. It was the first time I didn't play, didn't start, didn't get a lot of game time. I think it definitely made me a better, a better leader experiencing that. But what I missed a lot was, I think, that sense of collective power that when the NWSL came back into the league, you could feel and was, again, there was things going on in the league that was not good in terms of leadership and coaches, but the voices in this league

together are so strong and have pushed so hard to make this league better. And so I think for me, being in this league, being part of now potentially a new CBA negotiation, the first ever CBA was signed at Angel City's inaugural game being part of things like that while then traveling. So we have preseason in January and February. The league starts around March

and every about month, month and a half, I'll go off with the national team and play friendly games or qualifiers and then you come back and jump straight into the professional with Angel City. And I think what's so cool for me now being a part of both is I'm learning these lessons, how to lead, how to how to harness collective voice, connecting with the most impressive impressive,

amazing women, athletes, people in the NWSL. And we just want to make a difference. And I think as my career now, I have, I have. one more year on my contract, 2025, and I'm definitely thinking about what the next step is. But I love being in this league, being at Angel City, which again is a club unlike any other and has done incredible things in its first three years. And then being with the national team where we are pretty far behind, we're hoping the home World Cup more like kickstarts something, maybe not to the level as the 99 World Cup final

did, but, you know, on a smaller scale and now we've won soon to be two professional women's teams in New Zealand. That's very new. So I think kind of the lessons I'm learning by and developing as a player with Angel City, being the captain, having relationships with people in leadership in the front office. And then being in New Zealand, being the captain there, and being in a very different place in terms of the progress, but bringing ideas and creativity. And this is how we've done it here. Could this work in our own way? Culture is a huge.

I'm a big culture girl with not just performance culture, but I think especially for New Zealand, being able to use so many of the incredible, the history and the lessons in the unique culture of Maori people in New Zealand and the successful sporting teams we do have from New Zealand. And so all of that together, I just, it's a lot.

It's tiring. Again, I get very job-lagged. But I'm just trying to soak it all in. Like, it won't be, I won't be able to do this for that much longer. And so I want to enjoy every minute. And I am dealing with a kind of chronic injury right now. But I'm like, how can I make an impact even when I'm not training or not on the field? And leave this league and this game in a better place than it was when I found it.

I think that's probably the legacy most, veteran players want to leave but yeah yeah it's it is really special and i'm so proud how much the league has changed going of course from the league that folded um to seeing the elissa thompson's and trinity rodman's and sophia smith and just these amazing players and i think you know i'll be when i'm watching them at their fifth world cup and i'm going to be like if i'm still alive just kidding. And I'll be like, I played against them, you know, and no one will believe me because I'll be 80, but yeah. Oh, it's amazing. I can't get over the longevity piece. Like, it just is, it's just wild. How do you, how are they monitoring load right now? Like the, so when you look at

your, your professional club club team and then the New Zealand team, you know, are using, do they, do they use anything to understand your adaptation to training? Like, how do they actually manage, you know, how do they help you stay safe and healthy and yeah and this has been really interesting too because I've seen this really from like when we didn't even wear GPS to now it's like every document you have GPS heart rate monitor and then now I think what I've noticed in the national team and with Angel City the like fatigue monitoring anything like this before the jump test we'll go and we'll jump we'll do groin squeeze and then for those of us who have had injuries, whether it's a hip or a calf or whatever it is, we'll do other types of testing.

So we have all this data so we kind of, they know if you're peaked, if you're a little bit off. And then something I know, whoop is a part of was we're also tracking our menstrual cycles. And, you know, I think with so much of the research done on men, like to finally have, and I know it will take a long time, but still just being a part of it is so meaningful. And to have data there's too many injuries and we're not the same as men. We aren't. And so I think that also is something that I hope, you know, and we're thinking about. And with our nutritionist, we'll talk about, you know, how your body is feeling in certain, certain phases of your cycle. But I just hope. And that's just subjectively tracked. So you're just answering questionnaires.

Yes, yes. And now we're we're tracking our cycle with the tracking our ovulation. So doing our Pee, peeing on a stick. But yeah, we just track our, and every morning your wellness monitoring, answering questions. And if you are on your period, answering questions about your symptoms. So I think it is really, really amazing how much it has changed and how much data there is, which leads me into another part about like owning your data. And this is something that is going to be this next phase with the World Cup. and FIFA wanted to have your data.

And we are thinking now a lot about image rights and naming and likeness. But your health data, your personal data, the distance you're running. I mean, this is something that people are going to want to bet on or be able to show at a game. Like, these are conversations that have to be happening. And I think that's something as women and we don't make the money as men. and something like our personal data, we cannot be giving away for free because we are just as important. People want to watch us. Like all of the bullshit is being disproved. Like we are worthy and people care and it's a really good investment. So these are things now. It's all changing

when we have this data and this technology. Yeah. Yeah. It's well said. It's valuable. You know, and it's very valuable. And you should be reaping the benefits. There's no question about it. What's up, folks, if you are enjoying this podcast, or if you care about health, performance, fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop. That's right. You can check out whoop at whoop.com. It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain, and you can now sign up for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just a at whoop.com.

Back to the guests. You mentioned nutrition. So I want to talk a little. Let's talk about your cookbook for a second. Okay. So you know, you've been, again, really long career. You've probably, you've seen every kind of nutrition, fad, and trends come and go over the course of your career. You've tried them all.

Yeah. So what's kind of stuck for you? Like, where have you landed? Like, what really works for you? So I think I started. avoiding dairy on games day a long time ago. I just could feel that something with the nerves and something, it's just not. So that was kind of one step into more of the plant-based vegetarian or dairy-free lifestyle. And I got my health coaching certification from IIN when I was in

Sweden. And it was really like, I just want to perform the best, you know. I wasn't thinking. about, yeah, coaching or inspiring other people or how it could affect the environment. I was just like, I want to be able to run longer, you know, and faster. And I met just such inspirational people in this course. And I think now it's been really cool to share my way of eating or just how I found, like, you have to experiment. And you, the most important thing is you have to fuel. And it's something that I really want, especially young girls, to understand.

If you want to be able to put your body through the ringer, which is what we're doing, you have to fuel your body and you have to sleep. But I think where I've kind of landed after trying so many things is for me, the environment and animals, I don't eat a lot of animal products. It's personal choice and I feel really good from it. but I have found that two things, culturally, like being Chinese and my grandparents have passed, but the thing that always reminds me of them and important, like very big in Chinese cooking is dim sum and chaucy bow, which is barbecue pork buns, is like one of the things that brings me

so much joy. A Pavlova is my favorite dessert, and that is made with egg whites, and that is New Zealand's national dessert. And so these are things where I'm like, when I talk about nutrition, I'm like, you can be open mind and you're always going to get people saying you should do this or this or how can you call yourself this if you do like feeling good and doing good and like I'm like if you feel good and you're going to do good things for other people and like put positive energy out there like that also is really important and really and really valuable so I think I

I still have these things that make me feel so good and connect me to my heritage and I also realistically Angel City, we have really good options and we have a chef who comes in. We get really good catered food on the road or we get money to buy whatever we want to eat. When I'm with the national team and other clubs I've played for, we don't have those types of resources. And you're traveling all over the world where I was in Sweden and I asked for a vegetarian and I got fish. There's just different perceptions of what each diet is and also availability. And We spent three weeks in New Caledonia, and my teammate is vegan, and she just ate tomato soup. And I'm like, I respect you. I respect you so much, like, that you stick to your beliefs. But I need to be able to go tackle that bitch out there. So I think that's one thing that people don't always realize when, and I'm not saying that

eating healthier, cleaner, what everyone would call it, has to always be expensive, but it's just access. And I think your time, it takes time. If you don't want to eat the airplane food, you're going to have to cook your own food. And I think male athletes have so much more, so many more resources, the clubs they play for have a lot different. And I'm not saying there's way more vegan male athletes than not, but they're different dietary restrictions. It's just different for women in sports. And we're not at that point yet where every player or every club or national team has a chef. So I think when I cook for myself, I am 80% vegetarian. I do. I do love cheese. But I think it's, yeah, it's something that I've just experimented with. And yeah, we'll maybe

change a little bit when I stop playing. But yeah, it's been a huge process, long journey. how do you get your protein what's your main protein source so and this is one of the things that I think is with with our cookbook of course oh yeah and so sorry one of my best friends she's vegan and we wrote the cookbook together and so we have we have a lot of tofu you know she she likes tempe we'll dabble in the in the I hate calling me like the fake meats but like and beyond beef, whatever. Yeah. But the reality is, for me, with the amount of exercise, like, I have protein shakes.

And that's, and I'm really, really fortunate that I'm sponsored by a cent and they have, they have way, they have vegan protein. And I'm like, yeah, I'm doing a shake to get 30 grams of protein at breakfast. That's not super common for everybody. And you have to really think about it. And I think that's too, like, plant-based versus vegetarian and, like, eating eggs. There's just so, like, and you have to put a lot of thought into weighing up. Do I want to be avoiding this?

Is this going to be so easy for me so I can get up, go, do what I want to do? But I think that has been, and working with the nutritionist is really, really helpful, which again, is a luxury still. So, yeah, I think for me, I go between. tofu, a plant-based meat, and then I'll supplement with protein powder. Nice. You mentioned sleep being kind of the other core filler. Talk a little bit about, you know, I'd be so curious, like, how you think about your

loop data on just a more granular level, like how much do you actually pay attention to, you know, your recovery and heart rate variability and resting heart rate? and do you have any kind of non-negotiables? I think when you're in like a, you know, a training, you know, evolution where, you know, it's very consequential. Like, are you specific things that you're really dialed in on and focused on? Absolutely. I mean, I am not exaggerating when I say the whoop is my best friend.

Some people are probably offended when I say that. But I, the recovery for me is just number one. and I think I've used that because I thought it was so it was only based on sleep and that is a key for me. I need between eight and nine hours and people are like, oh my gosh, that's so much. I'm like, no, I need that and I have had the whoop now for like, I don't know, eight years and I know that I need between eight and nine hours. And then I think the stress, like so I'll always see with my heart rate variability and like I thought in terms of like fitness games. I'm like, I'll keep working. I'll keep working. And I'm just seeing this go, and I'm like, how, why is this happening? I'll have a few days off, not do anything,

sleep, no stress, boom. And it's up from where it was the baseline. Like, so I think I've just really, really the breathing, not being on my phone before bed, like I've done all this with the journal and tracked so many things. one of the interesting things that I realized that when I would report like being a little bit sore or yeah, or if I know, you know, like I've had an injury or like I'm tired, I take so much more care of myself because I was like, how am I having positive numbers when I have a, when I'm reporting something negative. And then I'm like, I am just, I do all of the things to make sure that I feel good and I see friends and I go to bed early. The one thing I cannot, I do occasionally,

but like I can't drink alcohol. It doesn't matter. Like I, it just ruins me. It ruins me. And like I think that's too, like the socialization part of it I love, but I don't have to do that with alcohol. Like, I can have, and there's so many fun mocktails and stuff now. Of course, I will still drink sometimes and I'm getting married soon and I plan on getting plastered. But I just know, every time, it doesn't matter, always in the red. Yeah. I know. You are not alone to, you know, just so everyone is the same. There is not, I've never seen really a human, certainly in our data. You know, if you drink alcohol, the, there is going to be consequence. And it's going to, sometimes it's absolutely worth it. There's no question. Yeah. I know. But, yeah, I think it's probably overall a decent thing that folks in general on the Woot platform are drinking less alcohol is probably a good thing. You're super active on social media. I'd love to hear just how you balance that. I mean, it's part of your business, right? So what are you, yeah, how do you use that platform? How do you leverage it?

how do you stay healthy inside that environment? Because I know it can just get it's the Wild West a little bit. So, yeah, I would just love to hear your general philosophy on how you think about social media and how you're leveraging it. There's so much there because I have seen, and of course, data shows that some of the stuff out there, and especially for women, it is horrible. Yeah, it's not good. On the other side,

I think connecting with people. And that's part of it. I'm like, I want to balance out all of this horrible stuff and the trolls and things that make people feel like they aren't good enough or they don't look a certain way. Like I am just my complete self, my family, my fiance, like we put it all out there. And yeah, so one of it is to try to bring joy to people and make people laugh and counteract some of the awful things. And to be real about what my life is like and what's like playing for Angel City and New Zealand and the things I do, which people seem to want to know and enjoy to watch.

And then and then there's that that piece of I want to draw people to the sport and I want to tell the stories. That's why I did off the ball with just women's sports. It's why I did Allie in L.A. Now I'm doing BFFR with Sid, my teammate. And I just think it's it is so fun besides the. game itself. And people who watch women's sports are, it's, it's different than the men's sports audience. And it's different demographics. And I just think that people really, they're consuming more than just the sport. They want to know more about us and our lives and things around the game. And I think

it's really, really cool. And so I think that connection piece to encourage, I mean, I mean, part of it is a reminder, like, we are human and we're not just entertainers for you to just say whatever you want about us. But I think that piece in terms of helping grow the game and grow engagement and get people more interested. And who knows someone might be like, oh, I saw that. I was thinking of going to Angel City Team or she had mentioned that like, oh, yeah, I just saw it like, you know. And you never know how it can kind of like connect in people's heads. Definitely. And the other piece, and we talk a lot about inspiring people connecting people.

But the other piece that we don't talk about enough is we need the money. Like, I need the money. Like, this is a huge part. And I think what I am proud of is, like, I've built this platform and this following, like, super organically. And then now I'm like, well, yeah, now I have this following and I can show businesses and companies, like, yeah, like, if, like, I have something that if I am using your product or showing it, like, you should pay me for because, like, people look at what I do. And, like, I think I'm, and I, I am privileged to be able to choose who I work with.

And that is absolutely a privilege. Like, I don't want to, again, like, when I say I need the money, I know there are people who need the money a lot more. And it's really important to me to be authentic and to, like, promote things that I genuinely use. And not everyone has that luxury. Yeah, I just think some businesses that, and. I would try to work with companies before when I didn't have as many followers, but I was doing

the exact same thing that I'm doing now. And they're like, oh, you don't have 100,000 followers or like, but if we're going to do this, you're going to have to do X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, gosh, like having an Olympian or being able to say like you and work with me to like, you have a World Cup athlete or an elite professional athlete, like using your product. Like, is there not some way that like this is valuable to you? you. But it is. It's still hard. And of course, we have a smaller piece of the pie than the men. And so then all of us are fighting for that piece. And I want ideally that piece to get

bigger. And it is growing. More brands are realizing that is good. And like not just important, but it is good for their business to invest in women. But yeah, I think that is of course a huge, a huge part of it. And so for me to have all those pieces connected together. I put so much time and energy and love and everything that I put on the internet because it is apparent to me. That's amazing. Was Ali and L.A. something that you pitched? Yes. How did that come about? Oh, I mean, I love my club and it feels like it is me and I am it and I love my teammates and the people around us and just there are so many great people who are doing kind of like the hard-hitting interviews and talking about how hard it is

being a woman in sports and fighting. And I talk about those things too. But I love also being able to have like an on-the-go unhinged in a unique environment chat, Q&A, whatever, like with people I love and admire and have a relationship with. And I just, I can ask different questions and do different things than a journalist or a reporter whoever would be able to do. Well, you have the trust. You're on the inside. You have context. Like, it's the perfect confluence of just, yeah, entertaining content.

I pitched it to Jen Pransky, who's our head of media and content. And she also, you know, has mentored me. And that was part of the deal. You know, we got Clarnet on as a sponsor, which was important. But for her to, it is something I want to do with my life. That's the next chapter. something specifically yet, but to be in front of camera and asking questions and it was fun doing it with Tish all in the golfer because we hadn't really, you know, with my teammates a little bit

easier, but I need to get out of my comfort zone. And so when we were golfing together and having a good time, it was really cool. So yeah, I think this is now we've kind of, I've turned left a little bit with Sid and we're doing an even more crazy unhinged show now. But it's just, it's so fun. And it's content that I think is unique and still does the thing, still inspires, still uplifts, empowers. But we are just really being ourselves. And yeah, of course, we want to inspire young girls and motivate. And we have that side of it. But we also love speaking to adults and talking about adult things and, yeah, just able to really, really be our authentic selves. And that's something that I want everyone to feel like they can do and be,

especially in sport. And sport has historically and is still a pretty exclusive and a hard place for a lot of people. So I think anytime you can put content out where you're like, it's just cool to be exactly who you are and that we're doing it, I hope that it still can inspire a lot of people. What's your favorite platform? TikTok, Instagram. Definitely Instagram. I'm too old for TikTok. Like, I'm trying, but, yeah, but I feel like I'm too young now for Facebook. Like, that's where my mom is like, oh, I sent someone a fan. Like, or if she sent me one, I'm like, I won't, I won't see it.

But I don't know anything about Facebook. But I did connect with you on LinkedIn. So hopefully you accept my invitation. LinkedIn is like, I need to start like. You need to transition over. I know. I have gotten advice many times now. I think, yeah, Instagram for me is like,

this sweet spot and yeah yeah it's fun to engage with people of course people can still say whatever they want but yeah some people are really mean actually really really mean and then like they don't have a profile picture like they don't really have an account blah blah blah I'm like like who are these people I mean it actually really makes me laugh but it's wild it is wild out there in social media I feel I feel a lot of I feel really bad I'm like god like this person literally has this kind of time to spend you know just being mean It just seems like it takes so much energy. I know.

But then I'm always like, well, you writing on this is actually like, it's increasing the engagement numbers. So like, thank you. Good point. You know. Yeah, thank you. How do you interact with your fans? Is it really in like in direct message or just like in your, in the comments?

Like are people really active? And how do you manage all that? Yeah. So it is hard. I think what's cool is that people will watch things and maybe comment. but then I see them at the games. And when people are like, oh, I loved when you did that. And then, you know, when the opportunity rises, I really try to say, like, I had this

interaction with someone. And I have had, like, the most emotional and rewarding and special, like, interactions with fans and supporters of the club and New Zealand. I think for BFFR, like we said, send us your questions. It will take us 10 years to get through the questions, but it's really fun. And for our listeners, just explain what that is. Oh, okay, okay. Well, Sid and I wanted to start a show and...

And Sid, your teammate. Sid, Leroux is my teammate, and she is hilarious, and she has the two most beautiful children in the entire world, and is an incredible mom and athlete has won everything for the U.S. Women's National Team. She plays for Angel City. and she she's just her content she's so funny and so we've kind of joined forces and BFFR is be fucking for real and so we've just had this kind of like I don't know rated R but definitely PG-15 content that we're putting out there and we're totally taking advantage

of all of our teammates and and interviewing them and getting them our first episode everyone said they're icks about like a potential someone to date and it was so funny yeah so part of the engaging is like trying to answer people's questions and but for me it's in person so I love putting stuff out there that then we can connect with in person at games and that is something about the women's game that is very different from the men's game is kind of the access people have to us and how we interact with fans after the game and that's something that as the game grows and as players earn more money like I don't want that to change like that is one thing and not everything we say when we're asking for equity or parents.

is that we want to be exactly like the men. We want to be treated exactly because we're not them. And like what we have developed in this period of time when we haven't gotten what we deserved or been paid or treated the way we deserve. Like we have developed something really, really special. And there are aspects of that that I do want to see continue even as some other asides you need to like, they need to change entirely. What was your take on the women's basketball?

this past year. So Caitlin Clark, Iowa, which is my alma mater, by the way. Well, wow. I mean, what an incredible athlete. And I mean, talking about the social media losing their minds over her. And I think from seeing where the NCAAs and March Madness, which wasn't allowed to be called that for the women, how that has changed. And again, I always think about this with the trolls and everyone commenting.

on women's basketball about Kate, I'm like, you're, I mean, you're still feeding this amazing frenzy that we love. Totally. The one thing is like, like, unless the players actually don't like each other, like, I don't like to see like people pitted against each other when like they actually aren't, but I'm like, if they know they're cool, then let these people just, I mean, you like the money and the attendance and the drama, like people don't even realize like they're helping, they're helping women's sports. And I just think it's really cool. And I think, too, like seeing the players

who have had platforms and not just speak to, you know, about themselves or the experience, like really talking about the women who paved the way. Yeah, highlighting voices that may have been marginalized or hadn't been recognized. I think that's really, really cool. And I think we're seeing more young players do that and you're seeing it in the women's basketball space. But I also think part of that, which is like not controversial, but it's like our male allies and how you don't want to be like, we need to be saved by the men, but you're seeing how the men's basketball players who are supporting the women in not a like charity way, like genuinely, because people see them as the taste makers, as the, you know, the people, the

influencers. And so I'm like, when it's done the right way, I mean, Alexis O'Hanian, he's, you know, what he's invested in Angel City. He speaks about it on every platform. He genuinely supports women's sports and Angel City. I just think it is very impactful. And so that's watching this kind of all of this unfold the past few years in the, in the basketball space. And of course, soccer is different. But it's, yeah, it's been, it's been really cool to follow. And obviously, I'm like, come on Stanford um yeah yeah totally but no it's great and i wonder i guess i just wonder how much that's going to transfer over to other sports you know i feel like just the overall awareness of yeah i think it is athletics is increasing you know i think it's starting to and that's that whole like

sitting court side like now at the w games like you see celebs getting sitting court side at angel city i mean you like if you spit it's going to land on a celebrity like it's just it's really awesome And it's, again, it's not a charity. They genuinely want to watch the games, and they genuinely, if they're investing their money, they think it's a good business deal. Yeah. I mean, there's no question. There's a lot of money.

It's very lucrative women's sports and women in general. Don't believe it. I think, yeah, I think that the data is very clear. So you've had this, you have this very extensive, long career. You know, what would be the one or two things that you can point to that has enabled you to really extend your career and thrive, you know, like you're not just surviving. You're thriving. It's a difference, right? It's amazing. Thank you. I think one part, of course, it is top of mind since we've been speaking about it, is like learning, understanding my body. Yeah. And advocating for myself,

like we spoke about. And really, it is hard. It's hard to admit or acknowledge or, you know, that your body changes and you can't, like, I can still hit top speeds, but can I be doing it every day and still want to be available on the weekend or be able to play in a year's time? And that lifting has to be different. And it's very confronting to yourself. Like, it is really, really hard. And now with this chronic and I have, like, the sciatic pyroformis issue. And it's just like, yeah, not training every day or not being in every.

drill every part of the session like that's that is really really hard but I think really being in tune with my body how much sleep I need what type of food fuels me the best and makes me feel good how much water I need to drink all those things that has been a huge part of it I think the other part has definitely been the way the game has changed because if I was still making the money that I made year one, or if we were still living with host families, or, you know, if I didn't have the sponsors that are paying me so that I can afford a car because I need a car in Los Angeles. I didn't need one in Sweden or in Munich, but like I, or in London, like those kind of things.

I wouldn't be playing anymore. Maybe not because I physically would be unable to, but because I financially or or emotionally, mentally, would not have been able to. And my fiance has moved here from Sweden and I'm supporting us. And I mean, these are all things that players in this league, players around the world, whatever sport are facing. And without the growth of the game and individual sponsorships or like leagues growing and developing, like players have to retire so much earlier,

not having support if, you know, you want to have a kid. Like these are all things. I'll get a little old now, but if I would want to have a kid and come back, I would think that is a realistic opportunity for me. So I'm going to keep playing. And it's just that was not the case before. So I think those are two huge factors to why I'm still here. It's amazing.

So you're going to have a final game. And that might. Oh, gosh, yeah. What do you think is going to be in your mind when you hang up your cleats for the last time? Well, first of all, I hope that that final game, like, comes by choice in a way. Like, I hope it's not that you have an injury and, like, you can't make it back. And at my age, like, signing a new contract is, you know. So that's, I think having a final game and knowing that it's your final game is a big privilege.

It's something that I hope to be able to experience. But I'm not counting on it. but when I do know that I've had my final game, honestly, I think I'm at a point where I'm really excited about what's next and I feel really lucky to have come here. And that's how I know it's going to be time soon. And I'm so proud of, you know, the teammate that I've been. I haven't achieved everything, every trophy that I wanted, winning a Champions League, winning a World Cup.

And I look at my colleagues and I'm like, well, they did that. Like, how could I not have, you know? You always are like, I'm not good enough. But I think I just will celebrate the journey that I have had, the games that I have won and the games that I have lost and the people that I've met and hopefully all the people that I've impacted in a positive way. And I think that will end in terms of how I do that on the soccer field and maybe get the kind of weekly air time of doing something on a field. But I hope and will be even more motivated, I think, to be able to continue the parts that I loved and can still do, which I really can in terms of making people happy and inspiring people and connecting with people and inspiring young girls and making money, hopefully.

making more money than playing soccer probably, I think, yeah, I'll be happy and I'll probably be really tired. So I'll be ready for a vacation. But no, I mean, there's so many people that I'll be like so grateful for that helped me start, maintain, finish my career. But yeah, I still want to be involved in the game. And there'll be times I think, well, I'm like, oh, well, I want to be out there. but I think still talking about the game and the stories and seeing players do things that I never ever could have done, could do now, but knowing that I was part of it, you know? So yeah, it's just, again, that game, that final game could be any, like for any of us, 36, 18, like your last game could be at any time.

I think that's something, what I'm most proud of is probably that that has been my mindset the entire time. I went to Stanford because I knew I might not play, but where will I be happy? Whether I get injured, don't get game time. And I think that's how I've approached every game, every club team,

every practice. And I'm, that's probably what I'm most proud of. It's amazing. Well, we're so grateful that you've shared your beautiful perspective with us and with our listeners. And it's just,

your journey has just been so inspirational. And, yeah, just, again, really grateful for all the goodness you put out into the world. And you're clearly impacting so many folks. And, yeah, just we're really lucky. I feel really lucky to kind of learn about your journey and just this opportunity to talk to you. So thank you. Well, thank you so much for giving me the platform, literally, the Riverside platform. Yeah, of course.

Thank you to Ali Riley for joining us on the show today. Best of luck to her and Angel City throughout their NWSL season, as well as the New Zealand national team in Paris. If you enjoy this episode of the WOOP podcast, please leave a rating or review. Check us out on social at WOOP, at Will Ahmed, at Kristen underscore Homes, 2126. Have a question what you answered on the podcast? Email us, podcast at WOOP.com. Call us 508-443-4952. If you're thinking about joining Woop, you can visit WOOP.com.

Sign up for a free 30-day trial. That's a pretty good deal. It's free. members can use the code will W ILL to get a $60 credit on WOOP accessories that's a wrap folks thank you all for listening we'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast as always stay healthy and stay in the green