WHOOP Podcast - Matt O'Keefe, CrossFit super-agent & President of Loud and Live Sports, along with VP of Strategic Development Dylan Malitsky, discuss the events that will shape the future of the sport, plus what WHOOP does for CrossFit athletes and the sport as a whole.

Episode Date: September 4, 2019

CrossFit super-agent and President of Loud and Live Sports, Matt O'Keefe, along with VP of Strategic Development Dylan Malitsky, discuss their backgrounds and how they got to where they are today (5:18), working with Mat Fraser and other top athletes (9:46), lessons for success (14:29), how the sport has evolved in the past 5 years (16:33), the popularity of Wodapalooza and replicating that with other competitions (18:32), event programming and inside information (28:53), if the Games season is too long (40:30), what WHOOP does for CrossFit athletes (45:32), using recovery, strain and heart rate data in live broadcasts (48:19), comparing your HRV to the world's best (48:34), and growth through innovation and trying new things (50:16).Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

We discovered that there were secrets that your body was trying to tell you that could really help you optimize performance, but no one could monitor those things. And that's when we set out to build the technology that we thought could really change the world. Welcome to the WOOP podcast. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Woop, where we are on a mission to unlock human performance. Our clients range from the best professional athletes in the world, to Navy SEALs, to fitness enthusiasts, to Fortune 500 CEOs and executives. The common thread among whoop members is a passion to improve.

What does it take to optimize performance for athletes, for humans, really anyone? And now that we've just launched all-new whoop strap 3.0 featuring Whoop Live, which takes real-time training and recovery analysis to the next level, you're going to hear how many of these users are optimizing their body with whoop and with other things in their life. On this podcast, we dig deeper. We interview experts. We interview industry leaders across sports, data, technology, physiology, athletic achievement, you name it. How can you use data to improve your body? What should you change about your life? My hope is that you'll leave these conversations with some new ideas and a greater passion for performance. With that in mind, I welcome you to the

Whoop Podcast. The last five years have been a really nice time to be in this space, right? Everybody was sort of in the same boat. It's just a huge group of us all doing the same thing, which is suffering like crazy to grow something you're passionate about. But that's what CrossFit's all about. Not the sport, but that's what CrossFit's about. It's about community, suffering together, you know, building people up, helping each other

through the thick of it. So it's the same on the business side. What's up, folks? Today on the Woop podcast, we are joined by Matt O'Keefe, president of Loud and Live Sports, and Dylan Militsky, Loud and Lives VP of Strategic Development. Matt represents many of the biggest names in CrossFit, including Matt Frazier, Katrin David's daughter, and Tia Claire Toomey. Our elite performance manager and resident CrossFit expert, Mike Lombardi, sits down to Matt and Dylan to discuss, building their business and the lessons they've learned to help get where they are today, the future of

CrossFit and how events like Wadapalooza will continue to shape the sport, what Woop does for CrossFit athletes, and how it can help the sport reach a broader audience and become more mainstream. Before I kick things over to Mike, on another note, we've just announced that Woop is now available in Australia. Hello, Ozies! If you're listening in Australia, stay tuned for a discount code. in the show. And now, here are Mike, Matt, and Dylan. I'm Mike Lombardi, elite performance manager

at Woop. I'm here today with the heart and soul of Loud and Live Sports, President Matt O'Keefe and VP of Strategic Development, Dylan Militsky. Welcome, guys. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Really pumped to be here with you. Awesome. So for those of you that are a little bit outside of the CrossFit world, I'm going to let Matt tell you a little bit about what Loud and Live does. Yeah, thanks. Well, Loud and Live is an entertainment, sports, and marketing agency as a whole. We, Dylan and I live in the sports side of things. But Loud and Live was born about four years ago as an entertainment and marketing agency pretty focused in Latin music. We have Latin music talent. We manage, promote, operate concerts, tours, and do a lot of marketing work, particularly experiential

engagement marketing. So about, I don't know what, Dylan, 18 months ago. About 18 months ago, I came on to start the sports side of things, which really mirrors that. It's, you know, event management, own and operate events, managed talent, athletes, and do marketing work for brands. Nelson and Marco, my business partners, bought Waterpalooza or a portion of Waterpalooza boat two and a half three years ago and kind of stood back and watched that and, you know, to see how that would progress and how they could plug in and help advance the event. And I came to that, to be a part of that, again, like I said, about 18 months ago. Is that where you met Dylan through Guadaluza? Funny enough, no.

I've known Dylan for, I mean, he was a part of Waterpaloosa, but I met Dylan as an, he was an athlete, actually. Believe it or not. Five years ago now. Five, six years ago. I started a clothing company called Red Line Gear, supported a lot of athletes, CrossFit athletes. Was that based in New Hampshire? Massachusetts. Oh, it's based on Massachusetts.

Yeah, yeah, just north of here, north of Boston. Okay. I'm from Danvers, Mass. And Dylan was somebody I met early on. He was emceeing events. He was competing. He was a regional athlete, so we formed a friendship at that point. Always kind of talked a lot and wanted to work together and never found a way.

He was kind of going that event track and working at Waterpaloosa, and I was going the athlete route. So, Dylan, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background, how you've found your way to, CrossFit, obviously, regionals, and emceeing the games for six years. Yeah, for sure. Seven years. Seven years. Until this year. Until this year.

This would have been eight. My background, grew up in Pennsylvania, was a student at the University of Miami. When I moved down there, I was an R.A. in the dorms, and I met Noel Olson, who was an aspiring crossfitter at the time and not made it to regionals. He introduced me to CrossFit, a little gym called Peak 360, and that was the host gym of Wadapalooz at the time. So year one, actually, just being part of the gym, I volunteered and was a judge. Year two, I was asked by leadership of Waterpaloosa being out of the gym to MC.

And I had never done anything like it before. I had just started coaching. And it was like six months before the event. So I, you know, with it being so far out, I didn't really put it into context what that would mean. So I said yes right away. Come game day, I'm shaking in my boots. And I got out there on the competition floor and apparently did pretty good because I was asked back to emcee the actual southeast. regionals that were hosted in West Palm Beach that year. From there, after like day one,

I was being introduced to Dave Castro and Justin Berg. And before you know, the rest of that season, that regional season, I was on the road doing all the regionals and then the games that year. And then the following year in 2014 was when I had made it as an individual to regionals in Southeast. And I was wearing redline gear, actually, having worked with Matt at that point. And then the rest of the weekends I was emceeing. And then I'd continued on emceeing for the next six years. But over that time, after I'm seeing one year, the next year, I'd become media director of Wadapalooza. So that was in 20, yeah, that was in 2014. And then 2015 is when I took on a larger operations role that consisted of primarily competition and media. And

that continued to evolve to where we are now, working with Matt, and now has even gone beyond the events. And now I'm involved agency-wide with our athletes, our properties and marketing services. That's amazing. Yeah. Quite the ride. Quite the ride. Yeah, it really is. It's, I think for, both of you, it's been fairly unconventional to kind of get to this point, wouldn't you say? Oh, 100%. I mean, that's probably an understatement. Yeah, I mean, I was insurance salesman turned sports agent in like an overnight period. So, yeah, it's, I mean, we both, and I think I speak with dinner, we pinch ourselves because we, like, we get to do what we do. You know,

we don't have to do any of this. And it's truly a privilege to work with the people we do, our team, the athletes, you know, we do find ourselves, you know, smiling and shaking our heads a lot where we're at it's it's it's so much fun so how i mean how do you go from car dealership to redline to where we are now with your host that you're putting on sanctionals around literally around the world uh you're innovating the way that people are thinking about crossfit and and truly influencing the games to a great degree uh how does that happen in the span of i don't know what four five six years is that is it shorter than that No, that's about right.

It's about like five years. Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, I'm fortunate. I was taught to, you know, think big, you know, from a young age and, you know, have goals and achieve them, chase them. I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit. I was in a family business. Moved on from that. There is actually a little piece in between the car dealership and Red Line, which was I sold insurance. And I was really bored stiff, honestly.

and it kind of, I always say like I was always entrepreneurial in spirit, but I really never had the stones to go do something, right? And I think a lot of people in my position probably have an event that really does kick him in the ass to go do something like that. And I was bored out of my mind going crazy, and, you know, I had come to a crossfit gym, crossfitted, loved it, loved the community aspect. and it was a incubator for a lot of small business. And I was like, you know what, I'm going to give this a shot.

So, you know, the whole redline thing was great. The name was super cool to associate with our space. But I was just, you know, super passionate about the sport and the community. And, you know, I just dug in real hard and got after it. I mean, to get to where we are today on, like, operating five sanctional events, It's like literally, I mean, just really a lot of the right place at the right time. You know, I met Matt Fraser in 2014, and, you know, he burst not only as an athlete, but as a brand. And, you know, he didn't really trust anybody.

And I was like, I was there. I'm his buddy. I'm sponsoring him. I always thought agency stuff was cool being sports agents. I had a very close friend that was a basketball. agent, D. Brown, I don't know, a lot of people remember from the Celtics, he was D. Brown's agent, and I, like, grew up kind of idolizing this guy, and I'm like, you know what, I can help Matt a little bit, and then it got, like, real serious, and I was like, hey, Matt, you know,

you might want some help with this, but because I think of how he's wired and, like, puts a lot of stock in, like, a very small group of people that he trusts, he gave me that opportunity, and I'm super grateful for it. It's been a wild fun ride since then. But, I mean, that really was the pivotal moment, you know, and it gave me an opportunity to engage a group of people that, you know, trust, you know, that, you know, trusted me on the marketing side, and, you know, I was able to get out there and spend more time with people like Dylan and Nelson and Marco right now business partners at events and gain some trust from the brands. And, you know, it's kind of all started to piece together to where we're at today.

Yeah, I think the trust thing is so foundational, obviously, to being an agent. So the way you're talking about Matt with this close net group of people, people and not really allowing other people in. Dylan, you can probably speak to this, and Matt, you can also speak to this within the CrossFit space. It seems like it's gone to, or from, let me get any endorsements I can because I'm also doing three other things to be an athlete to I can be a professional CrossFit athlete and this can be my life.

Do you feel like Matt kind of almost set the template and maybe you guys have paved the way for, you know, being a professional CrossFit athlete and being treated like a more traditional NBA player, NFL player, and looking at going about a season that way in endorsements and partnerships. Yeah, I mean, I think there are a number of people who blazed that trail, right? I think Rich, you can't ignore Rich and Annie

a little in front of those guys, for sure. Obviously, those two big brands as athletes that emerged out of those initial years of the games. But I feel like this group, this crop has, like, really what you're saying, too, was, like, really professionalized as a larger group. I can remember earlier I had talking to Matt in my kitchen in, like, trying to sort of get him to buy into, like,

I think he was very, like, you know, focused on a certain couple of things that it didn't really have, like, a long-term scope to look through about how he was going to go about this. And I was like, you know, we got a plan for success. Like, I want you to operate now. Like, you know, you're getting millions of dollars from endorsement. And, like, the CrossFit games is your only focus. and you're going to win, like, that's going to be your mindset.

And he bought into that up, not just because I was saying, he had coaches, but, like, truly because he found that that was the path you wanted to take. But, yeah, I mean, early on, Katrin, Matt, you know, we worked with Brooke Hens at the time, Brooke Wells, we now work with Annie, you know, Tia, Pat Fowler, and Brian Fikovsky. All these guys have really- Not too shabby of a roster. Yeah, it's cool, that's fun. It's exciting. They, you know, they, you know, they've bought into that template, you know, and they've, before they were sort of, you know, a loud, you know, before they should have been, you know, maybe investing in that full-time perspective aspect of, like, the business side and the trading side, they owned it, they bought into it, they trained like that, and they believed in what we wanted them to do from a business perspective, you know, and trusted us.

but yeah I mean like you were saying the trust side of things it's like without that like I have nothing we have nothing you know whether it's an event with our community volunteers you know it doesn't matter athletes brands it's all I mean that's the most important thing it's relationship driven everything's a relationship yeah that's like you can have said it better it's relationship driven and the reputation that you've built for this brand in such a short period of time is truly second to none. So what things have hit cool? No, it is. It's cool to hear that because I don't think we are, we want that to be the case, but like we don't spend a lot of time like out checking if that's how people feel. Exactly. And I, that's probably what sets you

guys apart to a degree is that you really care about the process and the people. Are there things that either of you learned, you know, from the cross-it world or just from past experience? that have helped shape the way that you go about things with, not just the athletes, but the people that you deal with, like a company, like Whoop, like anyone else, that you feel welcome and not like the traditional potential agent trying to take advantage and get everything they possibly can for their client. It doesn't feel like that at all.

Can't be here, right? Right. I mean, we look like... I don't know if you had like an experience or you just saw this kind of as a rampant thing within the space where no you got to give us this you got to give us this and it's like that's an unreasonable ask obviously i mean i think it's always like i you know Dylan and i have talked about this quite but it is interesting because you know you do work for an athlete and you're responsible for their revenue but i we say this all the time we own this right it's like it doesn't

do us any good to be involved in a relationship that lasts a year so if i'm doing what you're saying there you know in terms of if we're overpushing those things we're not going to build long-term relationships. It has to have a double-sided value, right? You know, I don't know if you... But yeah, there are a couple things that I think our team, the internal sort of mottos,

and one of them is action over intention. So it's not about what you do now. It's about the intention behind it. And with all of our events, with all of the things that we do with our athletes, it's about helping provide support to both brands, athletes, fans of the sport, and more.

So all of the decisions we make are based on those three pillars. athletes making sure we can provide opportunity to athletes provide them with a stage to showcase their ability showcase their fitness then we've got secondly the brands help connect them with consumers whether it be through our events or connecting them with athletes that can then help them connect with their consumers

and then fans of the sport provide them with a platform to see the best of the best and enjoy the sport so that's at the barest the lowest level the lowest common denominator is making sure that we're providing those things that is our intention and then our actions will echo that we all i mean you guys at woup um your startup growth minded it was it like the last five years

have been like a really nice time to be in this space right everybody was sort of in the same boat i mean certainly there were bigger brands in the space like you know on nike's involved rebach but really there was just a huge group of us all doing the same thing which is suffering like crazy to grow something you're passionate about and like there's a lot to be said for that for you know all sort of you know having no choice a lot of times but to work together for a common goal but also wanting to i mean you learn that in the crossfit gym you're crossfitter it's like you know um that's what the crossfit the whole that's what crossfits all about not the sport but that's what crossfit's about community suffering together you know building people up and you know

absolutely helping each other through the thick the thick of it so it's the same on the business side it's been it's fascinating um you know what an amazing business story that the whole CrossFit world space is because it's you know it's created some unbelievable businesses and people that operate these businesses you know the nobles of the world. RX bars the craziest story you've ever heard you know kid rolling bars in his basement I know it's so crazy you know it's just and what a great guy and just you know I remember being at my first regional and my booth was like one or two over from him and he was like I'll never I forget exactly what he said, but Peter was, like, manning the booth by himself,

and he was just like, hey, dude, you know, trying to figure this whole space out. Like, do you get this? Like, do you sponsor athletes? Three years later, he's selling to Kellogg for $600 million. Yeah, it's amazing how that passion and, you know, putting it down. And like you said, he just asked you, hey, I don't really get this. You know, putting yourself out there. You guys have been in the space a long time, which is why you probably,

understand the community so well and put on arguably the best events, no, no shade to anyone else, but Wadapalooza is probably almost everyone's favorite event, probably spectator, competitor. So, Dylan, you've been at Wadapalooza a long time. Yeah. How have you kind of seen it change from when you started working with them, or, you know, within the Wadipusa under Gito and when that was kind of the show? And once Loud and Live came in and has continued to push it forward. and became one of the first sanctionals and everything like that.

Was it actually the first sanctional? I think it was the second. Second Dubai was first. Yeah, and they were a week or two before us. They announced just before us, right? Well, and on the new calendar, yeah. Yeah, in December and then ours in January, now in February this year. But, yeah, I'll tell you, I think it all boils down to going back to that word of intention.

You know, we saw a void in South Florida. People wanted a place to showcase their ability, and there wasn't really any big events at the time or any solid events in South Florida at all. I think at the time OC throwdown was going on. That was probably the biggest event in the U.S. at the time. When we started, though, the idea was just to have a South Florida throwdown. We probably had 150 athletes. We're in the same venue of Bayfront Park, but it felt a whole heck of a lot bigger then

because there was a lot of empty real estate. I think, you know, there was no fencing. It was just kind of open air. I remember actually during one of the workouts, we had some random person walk right onto the competition floor and pick up a barbell mid-heat, start doing, you know, biceb curls. Fun enough. So just to show where it's come from just being a backyard throwdown to be this, you know, this huge professionally run event. Again, that year, 150 athletes, about 500 spectators.

I think we all jumped for joy when we had one vendor. I think it might have been just a local shoe company, sports shoe company, that paid 150 bucks and gave a couple pairs of shoes to the winners. And we were jumping for joy in the fact that we got them on board. And then now when it's become this sort of like grand destination expo for brands with over 100 displaying every year, So that's one example. And then again, it was all primarily local. We had an elite division, and I'll never forget it. We didn't have enough females competing.

So we actually put them into the male division and just scaled their weight accordingly. So we probably had an elite division of 20 athletes. And now for it to be, just like with the brands, this place that all the elite want to compete to vie for the prize money, to vie for the spots of the games is truly humbling. But I will tell you as far as, well, maybe the spectacle has increased, going from that to year two to maybe 300 athletes, and now maybe getting more of like a southeast presence.

The next year we got some California participation, some northeast participation to where it is now with 2,300 athletes. The intentions are still the same, and we go back to our motto. The whole point of Waterplusa is to celebrate, celebrate all things, but primarily the three words that are all over the venue, all over our social, celebrate fitness. How do we celebrate fitness through competition,

celebrate community, and celebrate life? So how do we celebrate community? We bring all these like-minded individuals down to base. front for a weekend they'll never forget and life by creating memories and building relationships with people go back to that word relationships that they'll have for the rest of their lives. So it really has stayed true to its ethos, but certainly from this 150 athlete, no fence, random people walking up, no real elite presence, just, you know, kind of your average Joe's throwing down to now we still have that category, but that's a small piece of this much larger pie with

37 divisions, you know, seminar stage where you have subject matter experts speaking all week, and we literally have something for everybody to enjoy, and we just have stayed true to that original intention of celebrating fitness community in life. That's amazing, and I know that all the whoop employees that end up going down to Guadalooza, I never want to come back. So it keeps getting better and better every year.

Miami has that effect, for sure. It certainly does. So maybe Wadapalooza was the easiest one did for Loudoun Life to take over because there was a framework, and there's an understanding of what the community is like and like you said, there's an ethos. So when you have the, you know, West Coast now in Madrid and you're going around the world,

there's obviously the loud and live stamp you want on it. What sort of challenges have you found to find that same sort of lifeblood that you know exists in Miami? So what's the difference for California? What's the thing for Madrid? You know, do you have people there? Obviously, you're working with people locally. Of course.

But there's got to be some challenges. No, there is, but I think it's very clear to us what, you know, the answer is each of these events has to have its own identity. If we try to run California like Waterpaloosa, then it's going to be a complete failure. And the answer to that for us is like we want to build an event that the local community is super proud of and is culturally sound for them that they want to participate in

on all those levels, spectate, compete, or volunteer. So that truly is the foundation for any event, really globally. And it's, you know, for us, we picked markets that I think we've been very interested in traditionally throughout time, whether it was the original Waterpalooza team wanting to go to California and spending a lot of time looking at how to do that. Or you look at Mexico and Madrid, I mean, those are markets that were very involved in on the music side, the entertainment side of our business. So they just make sense. You know, are my partners, are El Salvadorian and Cuban, so, you know, very involved in the Latam market. One of my partner's wife is a Spanish citizen, as is he actually,

carries a Spanish passport, too. They, you know, spend a ton of time over there. We have a lot of contacts. They have a lot of business. So, you know, everything we are doing makes a lot of sense. And it's something that we think we can bring, enhance what's already existed for the local community and what's true to that particular brand like granite games for instance couldn't be more excited about that you know we're going to move that event to Minneapolis and just make it a little a little easier to get to more accessible but we also like we were you know we were talking this morning a little bit about that particular event which is you know we just know if you put a venue near hotels and people don't have to rent cars and they can walk across the street like all those 1%

start to add up to a really good experience, which is what's most important. Like, it isn't about anything else that people come down or come to the Midwest or go to California and have an absolute blast. And if we do that, all the rest of the stuff that we need to accomplish trickles down from that. If athletes, volunteers, partners, spectators have a blast through that experience, we win. You know, we all win, and everybody's had a great time and they leave

and they want to come back to next year, right? Yeah, no, specifically with Granite games, I think that to be the case. And to go back to, we are working locally with some partners in Mexico and in Madrid, and with actually folks that have prior event experience in those locales. So they've given us a lot of guidance. That's been extremely helpful. But just like, for example, as we started to explore a potential move for Granite games,

there's issues with as we start to look at factors regarding the venue. We looked at potentially moving into Chicago, but there's issues with unionization and cost of that. So, you know, obviously our bread and butter has been Miami. I mean, that's my primary experiences with that event, but we've encountered various things across the world, really, as we look to move them in different venues. And we're going to be solidifying the venue for Mexico very soon here, probably, you know, in the next seven to 14 days,

we'll know where that's going to be, but it's primarily in, we're looking at resort properties in the Riviera. Oh, wow. It should make it pretty easy for us, yeah. All on Closfit. How cool would that be, right? That one's going to be wild. Sign me up.

I'm ready. We'll see you over there. Yeah, I'll be there. And then in Madrid, it'll be probably in the heart of Madrid as opposed to. I know that a venue that had come to mind for a lot of people was Kahamajica, which is a little ways out from the actual city center, I think like 45 minutes away, actually. So while that's a cool venue, we found a very similar venue close to Madrid, like again right in the center that I think will check a lot of the boxes of what we need.

Is the idea to keep some of these events mostly outside, mostly outdoor? Yeah, I mean, I think whatever the environment allows, us to do really i think you know like california we're in delmar which is where the old regional is correct was in um which is a great space incredible yeah and we're going to do way more like yeah we're going to be outside the weather allows it um you know some of the events seasonally i mean depending like madrid's going to be like yeah we'll see what the venue is going to dictate some of it we'd love to be we will be outside for some of it for every single event there'll be some But as you mentioned, we want each event to have their own, look and feel, their own brand, you know.

So for us, that doesn't necessarily mean replicating Wadapalooza across the other four events. That's actually the furthest thing from what we want. We certainly think there are positive aspects of Wadapalooza that we'd like to duplicate, just as there are things at Granite games that we really like about the way they operate, that we'd like to duplicate across the other events. But ultimately, they'll all have indoor, outdoor components depending on the locale, depending on the venue. I don't think I'm like letting any trade secrets out, like Wadapalooza, you swim on Saturday. oh yeah no it's like you know it's pretty like pretty in that's you know that is like literally

essential to who we are and will be moving forward in some way shape or form um we're that's i think what we're most excited to build at all these new events right i don't have anything to do with that we have a competitive director and a team and programmers that help with all that stuff and but that's what i'm most excited to see play out is like you know there's a horse track at tomar like we're going to get on it and run around it like we're going to ride horses no but like this you know we're going to run around the city of Madrid there's lakes and I just can't wait to see that because each of them will take on like they'll have their own like signature a little bit of a flare exactly you I was the next thing

I was going to ask is about the competitive piece so each one now it seems is it's a brain trust of multiple programming experts so comp train and misfit you know or doing Wadapalooza how do you collectively come up with who's going to program the events? Are you trying to pick well-known groups? Or are you, you know? Yeah, I mean, I don't, I'll step aside and just start this because it's a big process that Dylan's involved in. I think the most important thing for us is to build a group, have some continuity in the room, get me, like, out of it, or do not be involved in it at all. It's not anything I ever wanted to be involved in, but if I truly could articulate how little I have for involvement in that,

people wouldn't believe me, so I won't even bother. I'll tell you zero. Zero. So I stick to what I'm good at. But yeah, I mean, I think the idea conceptually is, like, we have so many phenomenal minds in this space. Why don't we put them all in a room and let them give us their thoughts about testing and, like, how it should go?

and then there's a small group that can then take that filter and say, okay, then let's do X, Y, Z workout, which is Dylan and Danny, but it's even further than what you're talking. It's not just ComTrain or Misfit. It's like ham plans involved. Oh, yeah, totally. He'll list them all, but, like, it's all of them. And we want more, you know, we want them all to have a seat at the table to say,

because we feel responsible, especially with what we have going on now, with really making sure that we put a very proper test out, and that, you know, we get the insight from the people that, are dealing with that the most. Those guys are all coaching the best athletes in the world. Yeah, so that's typically how it works, is there's not necessarily a group of programmers in the room actually doing the programming together.

We did explore that last year with the Waterpalo's Online Challenge and Qualifier. And I think it turned out pretty well. I think this year, the way that we've approached things with the online challenge and qualifier actually is an even better approach. So getting all of these programming arms, as he just mentioned, together to be almost like consultant as a board almost. So we pick their brains about what do they think about, variety of time domains, what consists of a complete test, getting thoughts on what they

envision workouts should look like over the course of the entirety of the online challenge and qualifier and then also the event on site. But from an actual programming perspective, we take all their feedback and then there's a smaller team of, as he mentioned, myself and Danny, that are what needs, because there are a lot more factors that maybe they're not considering when we're doing the programming. Less so for the online challenge and qualifier, but more for game day is just the limitations of the amount of time we have versus the number of athletes we have. so the logistics, also the equipment piece. So making all the right pieces fit,

but having these people that this is their day-to-day job and making sure that their athletes are prepared, we want to make sure they're having fun, we want to make sure that they're safe. We also want to make sure it's inclusive for everyone competing so that there's nothing that's maybe too difficult for them, especially with our online qualification process, and then once they get on site as well.

But again, we're typically using them as a soundboard for ideas, but not actually having them in the weeds, and that's because, you know, ultimately it could be perceived, especially as we start getting in the weeds of programming the event, that there's big prize money on the line, and then also, you know, spots to the CrossFit games, we don't want anyone to feel as if they have an unfair competitive advantage. So they don't know the workouts whatsoever when push comes to shove and game day rolls around, but they are instrumental in helping us sort of develop the concepts around what the

programming needs to look like. It's funny. A couple weeks ago, we had all the athletes down to film. Oh, yeah, it looked like a blast. It's always a blast. We have a good time. They do, it's great. We make sure they have a good time. But I remember, I think I text Dylan on that Monday, and I was like, hey, what are the workouts?

And he's like, wait, what? I had no idea, you know, and they're off the phone, but that's how little I get in the weeds on it. But it's the same for the programmers, too. Like, they are seeing it when it's, you know, some of them have athletes there that help film. But so they're probably finding out that way a little bit. But none of them, I mean, Michelle LaTondra did an interview last year because we took a lot of heat around it, which I love. I mean, people want to know, right? And, you know, they were talking about, you know, Pat being successful and, you know, her programming workouts.

And she was like, you want to know what I programmed for the workout at Water Blues this year? And she went through these three movements and, like, you know, it was like snatches, like overhead squats and something else. And she's like, you know what my workout was? It was rope climbs, thrusters. It was a yoke carry. And she's like, so I knew nothing. And, you know, people, you know, people love to whine about that stuff. They're like, oh, Pat, knew the workouts.

Well, let me also say one other thing from a. athlete perspective newsflash none of our athletes need our help so they're just they're a group that proves to be successful on any floor whether they well they never know anything or not whether they knew regional's workouts ahead or they didn't know games workouts ahead i mean the group that we work with are successful on every platform that certainly i or anyone else coaches are never going to compromise their their success you know by sharing something like that yeah absolutely not I don't think they don't think that relationship rebounds. No, no, no, that's good.

I think people definitely think about that. And it was more, hey, these are the programming minds that are in it. And this is probably going to be a great event for someone like Katrin or Pat or, you know, because they're used to this type of programming. And, you know, people think that, I think that was more what people probably thought in the first year. But as it continues to evolve now that hopefully they listen to this. And it's clearer that it's just a. consultant type basis and it's it's they're just trying to be complete tests uh hopefully that sheds

people always like you said people always going to complain do you think well obviously crossfit shifting the way that qualification process is shifting and now the open is in october do you think that more people are going to continue to engage with something like the wada plusa online qualifier versus the open because it it almost gives people that are you know not elite athletes the ability the ability to complete workouts in succession almost like maybe a mini-regionals or a comp. Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. I think the answer is, well, first thing, we love the Open. I mean, we both do it.

We have three events that will qualify through the Open, Mexico, Madrid, and California. So we support it even through our events. It will be interesting to see. I believe that people love the open will continue to do it and for a lot of reasons. It's like a, it's just a rally point every year. I don't know if the timing of doing it twice in six months will affect that this time around

and then maybe it rebounds after. We'll see how that plays out. But see, we have, and we try to build a more inclusive model at Waterpoulouza. One of the struggles we have every year is Wadapalooza is the most inclusive event in the world, but somehow it's become the most exclusive event in the world. And what we figured out is it makes a lot of sense if you step back. You know, I do the online qualifier for Wadapalooza to go to Wattapalooza.

And I do the open to have fun with my friends. So instantly I've created a platform now of wanting to obtain something through Wadapalooza. And there's like 20,000 people that go told no that actually expect to get to Miami. Nobody expects to get anywhere through the open, but probably like, you know, 500 people in the world, right? Right. So it depends is the answer. Like I think we do want to build a platform for the community to rally around and have a lot of fun with. But, you know, it's a competitive model.

You know, we want people to obtain something through it, right? Yeah, I would certainly say, piggybacking off of what Matt said, that I think the Open will continue to be the Open and the Waterpilloo's Online Challenge and Qualifier will continue to be the Waterpluze Online Challenge and Qualifier. The way they were positioned this year just by sheer happenstance of it now, falling in October is that we were kind of pitted on either side of the games in the open. So now our individual online challenge and qualifier was dead in the center. So we had some concerns as to how that would affect our participation. And actually, we've still seen an increase. So I think that's telling you that there's still a demand for the Waterloo's online challenge

and qualifier, despite it being butted up against now the Open, which is only a few weeks away. And then on the opposite end, we'll have our team qualifier. So I think, you know, what it boils down to is what I just said, that I think they're both still have, you know, people that want to do both. And I think it'll continue to be the case. Oh, yeah, I don't think that the Wadapalooza qualifier is going to be... I don't think we're not going to drop. I think the increase is going to be there because, like you said, people aren't necessarily...

Now that there's no regionals to go to, people are, you know, they don't want to... I know it's not that much money to pay to enter the open, but it's, do I really need to have my name on the leaderboard if I'm going nowhere? Some people, that's their ultimate test, whereas, I don't know, I always like to do the Wadapalooza qualifier, regardless of the fact I know I'm not going because they're great tests. They're short. They're engaging. You're like, oh, wow, that was great. They're so terrible, but that's great.

Whoa, whoa. No, and what I was, actually, they're terribly challenging, but yeah. Exactly, terribly challenging. I like that. Yeah, no, no, they're amazingly programmed. Thanks, thanks so much. Yeah, no, you're doing a great job with those. It's interesting, though, a lot of the sanctions are using the open.

A lot of them are using the open as their qualifier. So I think you'll still see a high participation. I think it's probably something like 12, you know, some of ours, but then also, I think another like 10 to 15 are using it. we analyze the hell out of this right and you know we look at like what is the age demographic for the open it's like fascinating you know more than half the people that do the open are 35 or older all masters yeah really yeah it's and so like there there's that segment there's probably you know what a thousand people in the world that even get past the open so like

how many people are actually chasing that probably 2,000 so when you look at there's probably a couple hundred thousand people 35 or old or at least doing the open they're not doing it to go anywhere like i do the open that's my age bracket i'm not going anywhere you know um yeah it's it is it is interesting to see you know i'd love i would love entry into each of them as to the why i mean our qual our qualifier is you know 10% of that you know um but again i i think that for it's just you know we'll have we have granted games which will now have its own qualifier as well. Those are, you know, they're just different. Yeah.

They're just different setups and people really, really want to do something more than just that qualifier. Are you, I'm really happy to hear that you do it for not going to Water poloosa? Oh, yeah. No. I mean, I always love to see what all the online qualifiers are because usually there will be so much you can just absolutely destroy and other ones where it's, I know this is going to be an absolute challenge and I want to put myself in this position. We don't, you know, tall, we don't have a lot of tall guy workouts. They program against me. So they program against you. I will tell you this year, I feel, and I've been a part of all the qualifiers we've done,

I think this is the most well-rounded test, most fun, and most inclusive tests we've ever had for a qualifier. I'm very proud of the finished product. You know, we're just a week in now, week two drops a couple days from now, but I think people are going to be really excited at what's to come. Do you think, with all this prize money now, every single sanctional, that more and more sectionals will move away from the open, as their qualify, or is that just a very, very easy way for them to get people, it's basically cutting out of a step?

It's the opposite right now. It seems like now more sanctional organizers are going away from operating their own online challenges or online qualifiers and now steering themselves towards the open just for, I think, feasibility. I think for many of the events, it's not necessarily a big revenue generator. There's not a big participation on the online side. so at least as of right now the trend is going towards the open as their qualifier or at least collective i think we all agreed all agree and even crossfit hq from that matter

that it's a little bit of an issue with having 28 events that are now like regional level competitions 28 individual qualifiers is unsustainable yeah you can't do that we've wanted to be and will continue to be a catalyst for a solution on that we it's you know we work with athletes we've got multiple events it's just not like we've watched what it's done to the athlete this year even with the smaller scale seasonal sanctional season um it's a disaster for an athlete that isn't top 30 at the games that can get access to a lot of these like we're inviting every athlete top 30 male and female from the games and the open to all five of our events and then the winners of the last 12 months of

sanctionals, the male-female winners from each of those are also invited. So we have a very clear invitation criteria. You've already automatically qualified 30 people on each side. Oh, no, even even six. It depends on the overlap between the open of the games. Are you doing teams as a lot? Yeah. Yeah, those team exemptions. We basically have talked a lot about it.

Like I and Dylan's tired of hearing it, but golf is, yeah, but golf's a very similar, you know, it's an individual sport that we need to pay attention to because they've, for probably 80 years tried to figure out how to do this and continue to tweak it. So they've made all the mistakes that we don't have to make and look at. How do you tour an individual athlete? And so we've looked at it and taken some stuff away. I mean, it's a little different because you're dealing with, like, prize fighters now that can't play 28 straight weeks of golf, you know?

So it's a little bit of a different scenario in how you score it over the long term if we go to that route for, you know, collecting these things. But, yeah, I mean, I've been a huge proponent of, like, finding a million different ways to invite these people off of their success on the floor. And in a good way, he's fought some of it because it's not necessarily cookie cutter for what we've always done in the past. And we've found a nice, happy media. Yeah, I think so. So, going off that golf model, do you foresee in, I don't know, the next five, six, seven, eight years of CrossFit that it goes to basically, let's say, four major? competitions, let's say it's Wadapalooza CrossFit Games and pick two other international ones.

Where, you know, maybe the CrossFit Games has looked at as like the masters of the season and you just, hey, there's a winner of this, this, this, and it's not really held any in less esteem. You still won the CrossFit games, but these other events are effectively just as important in terms of prize money and, you know, notoriety. Yeah, I think, you know, for me, I think that that's, you know, something that will play out, and I think, you know, certainly, I don't know that, you know, any, I don't know the organization or anything will actually, like, put that, you know, tag on it as major championships, but I think events will separate themselves from prize money perspective, you know, and there certainly are some that have a more significant position. Dubai gives 600,000. You know, Rogue gives $450,000. Wadapalooza will give about that this year. You know, doing a lot to try to give back to that athlete community. West Coast Classic will be over $300,000. Madrid was going to be over $250,000 about it.

So, I mean, like, those are events. I guess we don't focus on that is the point. Like, it's not about anything but what we said before is like building these culturally sound, cool community events. And then using that platform to, support a group of people that we believe in, that have believed in us and providing them earning opportunities through the elite side. And those events, yeah, have become more significant on the prize money side. It will be interesting to see if like some sort of model is adopted

by even the organization, you know, CrossFit. You know, if I, I don't know that it will, but I think certainly the prize money thing will be a separate. Yeah, we're focusing on what we can control right now. and obviously it'd be great for something to transpire in the future, but we're, as Matt mentioned, just focused on establishing these events, making sure that they're desirable from an athlete perspective with these prize purses, and I think the rest will take care of itself. Yeah, again, that's why you guys are separating yourself as, you know, best in class. We're going to start doing some things together with Woop and Loudin Live,

and that's going to be awesome. We're really excited. We're excited to get to these events. obviously technology and sports science in all sports is continuing to evolve and be more prevalent. You know, things as simple in the NFL and NBA is basically how far did somebody run or how fast do they accelerate. It's very simple things that keep the audience engaged, even though it's fairly surface level.

You know, with whoop being tied in, it's obviously going to give a way more granular level to a lot of this. Where do you kind of see technology being a part of? of CrossFit the sport going forward, and particularly without live events, if you want to talk about that. Yeah, I mean, I think, well, I for a long time, I have, and I've talked to you guys about it,

I think your technology is a platform that can help our sport be understood, you know, by a wider, a broader group of people. You quantify suffering with who, in which is what our sport is, right? So it's not, you know, NFL players suffer. They train their ass off. But, you know, they run a play every 40 seconds, and they get to take a breath.

You know, our people are sucking wind through a straw or through a wet blanket, you know. And it's hard, you know, I always go back to my dad, you know, texting me like, you know, what the hell is this? And, you know, if he can see the tipped out heart rate and, you know, and a play-by-play and color analysts can say, wow, look at how much that guy just recovered from point A to point B, the second piece of this workout in 10 seconds, that's like superhuman. You know, it's, I just, I think it's a platform for me that now starts to really put some context to what these kids are doing. And for the end user through certainly a broadcast, you know, when a kid's on a row are

going ham for a 2K, it's kind of boring, you know, but now if you can see what's going on with it as the meters go and as they're holding certain rates, people's ability to recover through movement, I think that's where, like, a lot more broader audience kind of gets hooked on this. It's like, you know, I don't even know what out there in history would be the analogy to it, but it's just, you know, it's tough to quantify suffering because all, you know, all you see is the carnage at the finish line, and it's like, oh, that must have sucked. But, you know, the average human being isn't doing a pegboard and split snatches and split clean jerks with an 85 pound dumbbell or whatever it was like that's crazy and over time and multiple times and you know you know

the bike workout at the games this year you know how crappy you know and I particularly get to do a lot with Madden competition being on his coach's band just him you know the burpee workout so benign you But to hear him articulate that coming off, it would be so cool to watch it. That's all is my thing, because he's like, man, that was the worst thing ever. And I was like, bro, you did 30 burpees. What do you mean? You know, and it's like, no, you don't get it. And also, what about their heart rate before they start?

We were talking about golf today, like over a $15 million put, but it would be so cool to see how amp they're getting before a lift. Like, that stuff to me is essential for us, I guess, moving forward. Yeah, I would also say kind of the relatability. I think one of the beautiful things about CrossFit in the early days was a lot of what the elites were doing were very similar to things that the average Joe were able to do within their box. But as the skill level has increased, that relatedability has sort of decreased, like the ability for me to say, wow, I can do that and how would I fare doing the exact same thing that Matt Fraser just did in three, four minutes. Maybe it would take me 10 minutes, but I'm able to perform the same amount of work. But now that the skill level and the strength has gone so high, it's not quite as relatable. But being able to see things like heart rate variability and see where mine is in comparison to him is just another fun method.

to play that game of, hey, how similar am I to the best in the world? You know, that I think putting that on display on the broadcast, you know, we're talking about doing some things like you guys did last year with us, like by the numbers, instead of just showcasing the total pounds-lifted, showcasing what was the heart rate variability of everyone wearing a whoop-doring, workout three of the online challenge and qualifier, just another level of people to geek out about, another array of data for people to continue to analyze.

That's how they can improve and get better. Yeah, and being able to look at things like recovery on day, of comp or if you know we look at it retrospectively obviously we're not going to we don't necessarily want to put it out the athletes would have want to put it out there before it's hard because of that right right but if you're looking at it retroactively and say yeah no wonder pat velner had a good day he was 98% recovered in the one three events today so that isn't it's the hard part i think in general because i think that it's so valuable and i think it's essential to their you know psyche a little bit yeah but to analyze their

performance but i mean sunday at the games or sunday at wadipalooza and you're open your phone and you're not recovered i mean that's like devastated some of them don't want to see so they don't want to see some of that but you know again i think it's athletes also have to take that step and you know we you know protect the largest group of them and invest in things like that so the sport grows you know and i think they're all involved would be in on that overall i mean we're We want to be a catalyst in the market and we want to innovate with brands like Roop that, you know, we want to be the platform to try things out and be different. And, you know, we're pumped to dig in with you guys this year and see what we can bring

to the audience on the floor through the digital component at the venue and through the broadcast. Absolutely. It's going to be pretty awesome. first Wadapalooza qualifier ends today not that it matters now first week ends today so off the individual and then there's two more weeks and then we have our team qualifier starting December 6th so we still got plenty of time if you want to put a team together to compete so I'm O and 2 against Dylan so I think I'm packed with him and Wadapalooza this year dates are February 20th to the 23rd so where can we find everything about what Loudin Live's doing what you individual

are doing yeah a few places Individually, I'm nowhere to be found on social media, but you can find us at Loud Live Sports on Instagram and then also at Watapalooza if you want to track that first event of the season, and each of our events have their own individual social handle, so you can just give them a quick search. Awesome. Well, thank you both for being here. Thank you.

Love to have you, and we're excited to keep going together. Yeah, pumped for what's ahead. Thanks, guys. Thanks again to Matt and Dylan for coming on the podcast, and we're looking forward to doing some big things with Loud and Live in the future. If you're not already a whoop member, you can join our community for as low as $30 to begin. We provide you with 24-7 access to your biometric data, as well as analytics across strain, sleep, recovery, heart rate variability, and more. The membership comes with a free whoop strap 3.0. We offer 6, 12, and 18-month memberships. The more you sign up for, the more

you save. If you enter the code Will Ahmed at checkout, that's W-I-L-L-A-H-M-E-D, we'll give you $30 off a membership, just for listening to this podcast. For our European customers, the code is Will-A-M-E-U, and that'll give you 30 euros off when you join. For our listeners in Australia, the code Will Ahmed A-U will get you 35 Australian dollars off your membership. And for our current members, you can upgrade to the Woop Strap 3.0 and get access to all the new Woop Live features by following the link in your Woop app. If you're out of contract, you'll literally get the 3.0 for free when you commit to another six months. Check out Woop.com slash The Locker for show notes and more, including links to relevant topics from this conversation and others. Make sure to subscribe, rate, and review the Woop podcast on iTunes, Google, Spotify, or wherever.

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