WHOOP Podcast - Melissa Urban: How to Show Up Authentically During the Holidays

Episode Date: November 22, 2023

On this week’s episode, WHOOP VP of Performance Science, Principal Scientist, Kristen Holmes is joined by the Co-Founder and CEO of Whole30, Melissa Urban. Melissa is here to help us Hack the Holidays. As the holiday season ramps up, we thought we would give you some tips on staying balanced with your health and wellness throughout the festivities. Kristen and Melissa will discuss managing alcohol consumption (3:48), keeping your nutritional habits balanced (13:05), dealing with the thought of overindulging (16:49), common issues people run into during the holidays (18:23), commenting on someone’s body (21:41), making your plate at parties (23:25), having a plan for social gatherings (26:02), sleep and circadian health (28:19), the importance of downtime and saying no (34:53), educating family and friends on your personality type (38:05), exercising during the holidays (42:41), dealing with stress (45:38), seeing others performing destructive behaviors (51:25).Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

Hello, folks, welcome back to the WOOP podcast, where we sit down with top performers across all different industries. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Woop, and we are on a mission to unlock human performance. We have two amazing leaders, two amazing women, to talk about how to hack the holidays. But before we get to them, I want to let you know that now is the time to get our best deal of the year. That's right. From now until November 28th, you can get a year of WOOP for just 199. That includes the WOOP 4.0, the membership, strain, recovery, sleep, all the great

things, whoop. And that is our best deal ever. So check that out. That's at Woop.com. All right. On this week's episode, Woop VP of Performance Science, Principal Scientist, Kristen Holmes. It's joined by the co-founder and CEO of Whole 30, Melissa Urban, Melissa is a recovered addict, nutritionist, and a seven-time New York Times bestselling author, been featured in the New York Times Wall Street Journal and more, and she's here to help us hack the holidays. As the holiday season ramps up, we thought we would give you some tips on how to stay balanced with your health and wellness. Kristen and Melissa will discuss how to manage alcohol consumption, monitoring what you eat throughout the many holiday feasts. The power of

downtime and taking time for yourself, you know, taking the dog for a walk, making that extra errand for the party, all great ways to steal some time for yourself. The importance of making sure you can stay rested, don't feel bad, opting to stay in a hotel versus a relative's place if it helps you get more sleep, and having a plan and being able to say no. Melissa offers some great tips on how to say no. If you have a question, what's he answered on the podcast? Email us, podcast atwoop.com.

calls 508-443-495-2. Without further ado, here are Kristen Holmes and Melissa Urban. Melissa is the beloved co-founder of Whole 30. Whole 30 is a 30-day dietary reset that millions of people around the world have tried. The idea is focused on eliminating and reinstituting certain foods to help individuals gain a better understanding of what the body needs to operate at the highest level. Melissa is also an expert on how to set boundaries. In fact, she wrote a beautiful, straightforward practical book titled The Book of Boundaries. And it was just a sensational read and so helpful. So Melissa is really here to help us think more intentionally about the holidays.

Travel, feasts, late nights, alcohol, and expectations and demands for family can be high. And sometimes, let's face it, misaligned with our best interests. Melissa is going to break down all of it and give us advice on how we can create the boundaries we need to keep our health and wellness journey on track through the holiday season. Melissa, welcome. Hi, Kristen. It's so good to see you again. Oh, it's so good to see you.

I mean, it was one of my favorite conversations this year. Gosh, it was in January, right, when we spoke last. And, yeah, you just gave us so many great ideas on how to start the year fresh. And I think it's only appropriate that we're ending the year with you to talk about really kind of going into the holidays with some grace and ways of framework, I think, to help us better approach just a lot of the temptations that that occur of the holidays. And one of those temptations is alcohol and food in particular. But we're going to start with alcohol.

And I have a little bit of data, Melissa, that I'm going to throw at you from our members. So basically December is the month with the second highest affirmative rate of alcohol consumption. So 42% of members respond yes to alcohol and have the highest average drink. So folks are drinking almost three and a half drinks per occasion. December is also the month with the second highest rate of spending time with family and friends. So no surprise there, so that's 61%. And alcohol is actually the most popular journal item to track and has the worst recovery impact, not surprising. So a negative 12% relative to, you know,

individuals, you know, this is all kind of within person. We see that our members wake up with their worst recovery day of the year on January 1st. And I think that this is probably for sure what happened the night before, but just the cumulative kind of stress and load over the course of the holidays. So I just, what's your take just on that data in general? And what should members do to kind of avoid some of these traps? Yeah. First I want to know what is the most popular month for drinking if December is the second. So July. Oh yeah. That makes sense. Fourth of July holiday, summer. Yeah, yeah. That data does not surprise me. I have been on a not drinking right now kick for the last five years. And the one time about a year into it that I thought a glass of wine

would be worth it, I drank a half a glass that was poured at three o'clock in the afternoon with a snack, went on to have dinner and then a great night's sleep. And it was the first morning, I ever woke up with a 1% recovery on my whoop. And I was like, you got to be kidding me. So I'm not surprised to hear that. And I think there are a few things you want to think about as we had into the holiday season, specifically with alcohol. The first is that for some people, drinking none is going to be easier than moderating your intake. Some people like me are just natural abstainers. I do better when it's either on or off. And habit research actually shows that black and white rules can be easier for the brain to follow because there's no willpower involved. There's no

executive function where you can then negotiate with yourself or try to find a loophole around I'm going to drink less tonight. Or I'm only going to have two glasses. But that glass was a short pour. So does it count? And if I have another half glass, you know what I'm talking about. So for some heading into the holiday season, the right commitment to make might be, I'm not drinking any alcohol right now. Between November 23rd, whenever Thanksgiving is and January 2nd, no alcohol. And that actually might be a big relief and a huge amount of pressure off for most people where you don't even have to think about that decision. And now you have so much more capacity, energy, and willpower for other decisions around the holidays because we know we're being met

with lots of temptation, lots of expectations, and lots of demand. So I think that's one way to approach it is you can go in and just tell people in your life, I'm not drinking right now, taking the holidays off, I'm not drinking this year. I'm doing a little self-experiment where, you know, I'm just not drinking right now. And I think that can be hugely powerful and hugely grounding. What do you think about that, first of all? I think that's perfect. I just wanted to, you know, kind of double tap on just, is it enough just to say to folks in your life, hey, I'm not drinking this holiday season. You know, I think that can be met sometimes with, like, if you typically drink, you know, are people offended? Are they, you know, how do people think about

responses or reactions from family and friends when you're saying, I'm not going to drink? Yes. Okay. This is where this one specific phrase is magical. It is, I'm not drinking right now. First of all, you're keeping the focus on you. You're not saying drinking is so bad for you. You shouldn't drink as much. We shouldn't drink as much. I think I drink too much. I'm just saying I'm not drinking. And then the key is right now. What that indicates is, I used to drink. And right now it's just a conscientious decision not to drink. And maybe you even imply, I'll go back to drinking in the future. So this isn't a permanent decision. Whether it is or not, you don't have to share that right now. But I have found those two little words right now really takes the edge off of any kind of defensiveness.

or questioning you might get. And if people say, how come you can just say, I've just chosen not to during the holidays, or I'm taking a break during the holidays, or I'm just not drinking right now. You don't have to provide an explanation or a reason. And I find the more you do, the more likely it is that the person's going to take it defensively and react, or the more they're going to use your reasoning as a problem that they can solve. Oh, I just don't want to be super tired tomorrow when I get up early to go to the gym and they'll go, well, I'll go to the gym with you at 10 then. You can sleep in and like, I'll make sure you have a buddy. And now all of a sudden, you're stuck providing another reason why you're not drinking. Keep it simple. I'm not drinking right now. And move on. Change the

subject. Change conversation partners and move on. I love that so much. And what I love it about it is you've basically removed any judgment. You know, because I think that's where you can really go wrong, you know, as people feel like, oh, oh, you're not drinking. Like, you know. And then they that's the mirror and all that. Yeah, nobody's telling you what I put in your glass. I'm perfectly happy with my glass of water. I'm going to change the subject and move on. Like, this does not need to be a subject of conversation. So I think for some people, the idea of just not drinking at all could be super duper helpful. For others, if you do want to enjoy some alcohol during the season, before you get into the season, really think about what is and is not worth it to you

based on past experience, and this really does require some brutal self-assessment, and then you can create parameters or guidelines that you can then follow in those situations. We know that alcohol inhibits your inhibitory mechanisms, meaning after a glass, you tend to make maybe less good decisions around a whole bunch of things. So going into it saying, I know that one or two glasses will probably be worth it, but if I go to three, like everything the next day goes to hell in a handbasket. So my limit is two. And that's it and you have a hard stop. Or maybe it's, I really want to enjoy a glass of wine with my family, but I'm going to make it last. I'm going to take tiny sips. I'm going to put my glass down. I'm going to take a break. And if anyone asks, do you want

another glass? I'm always going to institute a pause. Not right now. I'll let you know and give yourself the time and space to process. Do I really want another one? Do I really need another one to make this evening or this event feel complete? Those are all good strategies to help moderation. shouldn't actually work in those situations. Yeah, and I love what you're, you know, you're really tapping into just this idea of just being conscious, like making conscious choices. You know, I think sometimes in the holidays we just kind of go with the flow and then end up doing things that we regret or, you know, we just are in line with maybe our overall goals

and get us off track in a way that, you know, isn't really worth it in the end. There is a mentality around the holidays of YOLO. I'm just going to do. Are the kids still saying YOLO these days? I don't know, but I'm going to say it, Yolo. I'm going to do whatever I want, whatever, and I'll fix it on January 1st, right? I'm just going to, like, not even worry about it and come January 1st. I'm going to work to sort of undo everything I've done. And I think we all know how that goes. We don't feel our best through the holidays. We are cranky and groggy and anxious and we don't feel good and we're bloated and our stomach's hurt and we have less self-confidence as a result. And then come January 1st, you feel like you have such a hole to dig yourself out. of that it's harder to get going. And I'm kind of like, we can split the difference here. We don't have to go, you know, all the way down this path or be an absolute teetotaler for absolutely everything. Like, let's find a happy medium. So we end January 1st, still feeling pretty

good. Yeah. I love the idea of like actually not having to reset or reboot in January. I remember I listened to a podcast with Tim Ferriss. Like, I don't even know, it's probably like a decade and a half ago. And they were talking exactly about that concept of, you know, not going so far off the reservation that you have to, you know, you're kind of constantly every six weeks you're doing this like reset or reboot or, you know, having to do something so extreme to get yourself back on track. And that's exhausting, right? It's just not good for your body, right? That yo-yo cycle. And so I love that, I love what you're saying here is that, you know, moderation, creating some boundaries. And we know, we laid it, we let up with alcohol because that's the biggest impact.

You know, we just see that obviously affects recovery, all the markers of recovery and sleep on our platform. There's no question that is the most diabolical behavior that you can engage in in terms of your sleep and recovery. And so, yeah, having a framework for how to think about the holidays, I think is really important. Yeah, I agree. We see that people do actually sleep a whole lot more during the holidays. So Thanksgiving, Christmas, people are spending more time in bed, but we don't see a necessarily a positive relationship with recovery. So it's definitely the alcohol. obviously is one of the culprits. And then food is the other piece, right? We know that, you know,

meals close to bedtime, eating for extended periods of time. So, you know, eating, snacking, you know, over the course of 16, 17 hours is suboptimal, right? So how do we think about food? Yeah. So this is where the concept, the Whole 30 concept of kind of food freedom comes into play, where I know the foods that work best for my body because I've done several Whole30s and I've identify the foods that I know don't work well, and in what context, in what amount they don't work well, and which foods are worth it, and which foods aren't. In which case, again, I'm heading into the holidays with a very similar game plan, as I just discussed with alcohol. In that, I know from my whoop band that eating after about 7 p.m. absolutely tanks my sleep quality and my

recovery. It's one of the things that I've been able to identify affects me the most. So that's one of the sort of self rules that I'm not going to break. If I can just hold to not eating after like seven or seven 30, then I'm really good. That's like the eight, the 20% effort that's going to set me up for 80% success the next day. So that's one of my tried and truths. Now, you might have different tried and truths. Maybe you've observed that eating any amount of gluten whatsoever just knocks your entire system into a tizzy. You have digestive issues or inflammatory issues or it impacts your mental health, in which case you might head into the holiday saying, okay, my baseline is like no gluten or gluten only when it's absolutely worth it. And then I'm going to make sure that I kind

of moderate how much I'm eating to limit the potential consequences. Again, alcohol, I think, plays a huge rule in that. You might also notice that when you snack more often or when you're less mindful about your snacks. Say, for example, that you're snacking, but you don't have a lot of protein in your meals. Because one of the things that happens over the holidays is we're eating lots of cookies and cake and baked goods, but maybe we're not getting a lot of protein with each of our meals. And I know protein helps me feel satiated and helps me feel energized. I could just be more conscientious about like, okay, well, I'm definitely going to snack on this, but I'm going to throw a couple meat sticks in my bag. So I make sure I have some protein with my meals and snacks.

You know, I don't want anyone, I don't like the idea of anyone bringing their steamed chicken and broccoli to a holiday party because they're so nervous about eating whatever is being served. At the same time, I also don't think it's probably in your highest interest to not think about it at all. And again, eat whatever, whenever, and you know, you'll kind of fix it come January 1st. But I think taking a conscientious approach around, what are your sort of hard stops? What are the things that I know if I just can hold to these one or two basic tenets? I'm going to do much better the next day and much better over the course of my holiday. And then if I do get into a situation where I've eaten something that eaten something that doesn't make me feel good, I did end up eating too late at night, I ate too much, not beating yourself up about it.

Because the negative self-talk, the guilt, the shame, and the potential to even like want to punish yourself for that by an extra workout or not eating as much tomorrow, that can be even more destructive physically and emotionally than the stuff that you ate last night. So I think showing ourselves grace along the way, too, is really important. I love that. How do you think about, you know, folks that are actually, you know, restricting, knowing they're going to be, you know, overindulging? Like, what's your thoughts around that? You know, should you do that? Or is it better to just kind of go into the meal? Like, hey, yeah, I had breakfast, but I'm going to have, you know, this big Thanksgiving feast.

But, yeah, what's your take around that? I think we all know that the cycle of restriction and overconsumption is like a really vicious bounce back where we over consume and then the next day we restrict and maybe we skip breakfast or we eat tiny meals. But then by the end of the night, our willpower is spent. We're stressed. We're really hungry. And we overconsume really late at night, which can lead to this just really awful cycle. I think if I have a day where I know I ate too much to be comfortable, I ate too many of the things that I thought would be worth it but weren't. Or a food or the meal I impacted me in a way more negatively than I estimated, my best practice is to wake up the next

morning and just keep my normal morning routine. I'd get some kind of movement in. And maybe that's not a workout because I don't feel good, but it's like a walk or it's a rock or it's a gentle movement session. I eat my normal breakfast. It's protein based, plenty of healthy fats, some good veggies. And I know that that's going to start the next day off right. I'm not going to try to compensate for what happened last night in terms of restricting. I'm just going to say, okay, that was a great learning experience. What did I pick up from that? What would I do differently next time? And then I'm going to go on business as usual the next day. I love that. Are there any, you know, you obviously interact with tons of folks online. Like, what are some

of the common kind of questions you get around, you know, alcohol or food during the holidays. You know, what do what trips people up? Like, what are they thinking about? Like, just curious, like what you hear. Very often, it's other people offering food that they have made and you feel bad or guilty for saying no thank you. So it's like your mom pushing more cookies on you or grandma's, you know, once a year lasagna when you know you're lactose intolerant and it would absolutely ruin you for the rest of the day. So this is where having some kind of practiced boundary phrases come in handy. If you know that this is the situation you're going into, you're going into dinner, you know it's lasagna. Tell your Graham or your mom ahead of time, hey, I love your

lasagna so much. But sadly, when I eat it, it makes me feel terrible. And it's really important to me that I enjoy this day that I spend with you. I want to feel my best. So don't take it personally when I say no, I'm going to eat plenty of these other X, Y, Z things that they also made with love. It's also okay to just say, no thanks. And if they ask why, why don't you want a cookie? Why don't you? I'm just not feeling it. I'm just not hungry. I don't want one right now. Again, you don't have to give a reason. And if you do give a reason, like, well, I'm not eating gluten or I'm avoiding all forms of added sugar right now. That can come off as judgmental and can potentially provoke defensiveness. So again, keeping it simple, practicing some of these scripts for your kind of, you know,

to have in the back of your mind, but also remembering that your comfort and enjoyment matters at these events, you know, and I don't want you to be uncomfortable for the rest of the night just because you're afraid of sparing someone's feelings. I don't want that for you. I want you to have both. I want you to be comfortable and set that boundary clearly and kindly so that you can move on with the rest of your event. how your book, you know, has all these different scripts. Is there one that comes to mind, you know, aside from what you've already shared, that is particularly salient for the holidays? Yeah, here's the other one. Please don't comment about what's on my plate.

I was hoping you were going to say that. Let's not talk about food over food, right? People are really nervous heading into the holidays that diet talk, calorie talk, weight talk, body talk. Have you lost weight? Have you gained weight? Whatever that looks like. That can make people legitimately want to avoid an entire event with their family because they're afraid of that. And so having a few scripts, I have a ton in my book under the sensitive subjects, or no, I think it's food, drink, and table talk chapter can be really helpful. It can be as simple as, oh, I'm perfectly happy with what's on my plate. But Aunt Rose, tell me about your vacation. Those pictures looked amazing where you just do a quick change of the subject. Or, you know,

please don't comment on my plate or I don't like to talk about food over food. That's one of my favorite things. Oh, I don't like talking about food over food. I'll tell you about my whole 30 after dinner. But for now, let's talk about and then you change the subject. So having some of those ready to go if that conversation does come up, especially at the table, can be really helpful in you feeling more comfortable. Talk a little bit about making comments about someone's body. That might not be some folks are like oh wait that's offensive or that could lead someone into just this destructive spiral like talk a little bit more about the impact that can have on some folks and just why we want to stay away from any of that during the holidays. Please don't comment on other people's bodies. Hard stop.

Hard stop. Even if you think it's a compliment because I there was a moment where I had just gone through my divorce. It was just after my first Christmas without my kid, and I had my appendix ruptured while I was in LAX, like in the middle of a trip. And I had to have two emergency surgeries. It was one of the lowest points of my life, mentally and physically. And I had an event, like maybe a month later, that I managed to get to. And so many people were like, you look amazing.

You look so lean. You look so thin. And I wanted to be like, yeah, because I almost died in the middle of LAX. You never know what people are dealing with. And you look thin. Diet culture has taught us is like the ultimate compliment, but we're not doing that. It's 2023. We're not doing that. Don't comment on someone's body unless they invite you to. Do you like my new haircut? Do you like my new pants? But like don't find a, there are a million other things that you could talk about. A million other ways that you could compliment that person. Find something

that is not based on their appearance because those comments can be so deeply harmful in ways that you just can't imagine. So perfect. Thank you for saying that. And yeah, hopefully everyone listening is tucking that one away. I hope so. Yeah,

they're not stepping on any of those landmines. Okay. So I've got the buffet. Talk me through. You know, I'm trying to be health conscious. I'm trying to, you know, enjoy myself,

but not fall, you know, get too far off the rails. What would be your recommendation? Assuming that I don't have any kind of big intolerances to. Yeah, yeah. I have a strategy for this that I developed the first time I went to Vegas and had one of those brunch buffets in Vegas, which is so overwhelming. There's so many different kinds of food. And like, you could easily go. Ham. Yes. But I was like, okay, my first plate is going to be like a very typical plate. It's going to be centered on protein. It's going to have a bunch of veggies. I'm going to do some healthy fats. Maybe I'll have like some salad with it. But it's going to look like a pretty normal meal because this is my baseline. This is what I want to start with. And maybe there would be a few different kinds of protein or I might get a different protein than I could normally make at home, something fancier like lobster. But my first plate is going to look pretty typical. And I know that eating protein and healthy fats and veggies makes

me feel my best. So that's how I'm going to start. And I'm going to eat slowly and I'm going to chew and I'm going to take my time and I'm really going to enjoy it. And when I'm done, I'm going to sit for five or 10 minutes and then say what else do I want. And at that point, if I want something else, If I want some of the dessert, if I want the sweet treats or the baked goods, then I'll go eat it. But at that point, I know that I've nourished myself well. I know that I've given myself the satiety factors that are going to help me feel my best and keep me energized. And whatever else I happen to eat on top of that is like, okay, cool. That was my like fun little, you know, it was worth it.

I wanted it. I tend to take very small portions at first because I can always go back and have seconds. But if I decide I get halfway through a huge slice of pie and I don't want to finish it, then that feels wasteful. or I'll offer to like split something with somebody or I'll say to my husband like take an extra big slice and I'm going to have like two bites. And that's how I think about those kind of gatherings. I fuel myself well first and then you know what happens after that is really based on my own self awareness and what I think is going to be worth it. I love that. I always have a I have a two trip limit to the buffet. Yeah. You know. And so and I yeah, I try to like fill my plate up. Sometimes depending on yeah, sometimes it's a one. trip limit. But I think, again, it goes back to what you said originally is just being conscious, being intentional, and having a plan. I think that's what I love about everything you're saying is that you're, you've got a plan going into it, right? And just maybe talk about how having a plan, you know, some of these scripts, for example, like you know, you've got the aunt who is just

like badgering you about your personal life and just going to say X, Y, and Z, you know it's coming. But you've kind of thought ahead on how you're going to deal with it, right? So maybe talk a little bit about how you think about going into an event and knowing what the landmines are. Like, what does this pre-planning actually look like? Yeah, there's a strategy I've been using with Whole 30 since the earliest days, I think since the first book called If Then Planning. And this is actually based in psychology. If Then Plans really take advantage of the brain's natural tendency to connect an action or a behavior with the consequences or the next step. So the specific structure of if-then helps you think about what are the specific

challenges I might face in this circumstance? And if that happens, then what will my response be? So that when you are out in that situation, if that situation does come up, your brain's going to go, oh, that's the if. I have the then. I've thought about it. I've practiced it. And now I feel comfortable. I feel confident. I don't feel off my game. And this can be really helpful, especially when you are faced with temptation because the brain will always gravitate to what is easy and what is rewarding, especially in times of stress or discomfort. So going into some of these events with a plan helps your brain feel far more relaxed, far more at ease, and you're less likely to make a choice that you don't really even want in the moment, whether that is drinking the

third glass of wine that you definitely didn't want or exploding at your aunt who asks you for the 70 second time when you're having kids. We don't want that. We want to go in with a plan. So think about if this situation happens and be generous here. Think about all of the things that have happened in the past, maybe the things that you're worried about happening, even if you're not sure, and then create a then and practice that. You know, the boundary scripts are meant to be practiced so that when that situation comes up and someone says, why aren't you drinking? It's automatic to say, I'm just doing a little self-experiment and change the subject. Perfect. All right, Let's pivot to sleep and circadian health. So oftentimes we're traveling, you know, we're not in our

perfect bedroom that's all optimized for sleep. We're having to deal with, you know, staying in your nephew's like, you know, twin top bunk, for example, something like that. So how do you think about about sleep when you're traveling? And what are some strategies that you deploy to kind of do your best to stay on track and weigh up as refreshed as possible? I'm way too old to be sleeping in anybody's top bunk. Kristen, that is not happening. I travel a lot. I travel a lot for work. And especially in the years where I was navigating my post-concussion symptoms, the hardest, I realized that sleep was like the foundation. If it was like the, what do they call it, the key factor, if I could keep sleep relatively good and prioritize that, everything else

kind of fell into line. If my sleep went, everything else went. after it. So when I'm thinking about the holidays and thinking about those situations, I want to give people permission to call your family and say, can't wait to see you for Christmas, this year we'll be staying in a hotel or an Airbnb. Because for so many reasons, if your holidays would be more comfortable, more relaxed, and you would feel better knowing that you have an environment that will give you some privacy, some consistency, and maybe a much better sleep environment that isn't a top bunk or a room with no shades or the room right next to the kitchen, which is super busy. I want you to do that. I want you to have the holidays you want by prioritizing

the things that you know will get you there. And it's not selfish to want a good night's sleep so that you have more to be, you know, more to give to your family, more to give to your friends and you feel better. So thinking ahead about small changes that you could make or things that you boundaries that you could set to help you ensure a good night's sleep is one. I think the other is we tend when we get around family to be dragged into whatever schedule they have, even if it doesn't match our schedule. So my husband's family, they're real late night people. They're up to one or two in the morning. They might play games. They might watch TV. And we are like 530 in the morning going to the gym people. That's what we do. So we really stick to our schedule. It's like,

hey, we're going to play games with you until about nine, and then it lights out and we'll see, you know, don't worry about waking us up because we're staying at a hotel. We're not staying at his house. And then in the morning, we wake up quietly. All of our stuff is prepped and we get up and we go to the gym. And nobody's ever said anything to us about it. But if they did, I would be like, look, this is the schedule that helps us feel our best, really important to us to get up and move the first thing in the morning. And this way, by the time you all get up, we're ready to go. We've had a good breakfast and we can sit and enjoy. So thinking about things like sleep, movement, whatever things you know you could prioritize that will pay off in spades to have a wonderful

holiday, think about how you can set yourself up for that now and plan and prep for that now to get just a few of those key factors in place. Yeah, I love that. I think too, it's like just ripping the band. Hey, I'm hitting the hay. So good to see everyone. See you tomorrow. You know, have a sweet sleep. I'm out. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah, I'm the same. Like, I just literally, I mean, this frankly, when my sleep pressure comes, I'm like a puppy. Like, I just like, I asleep within like 20 seconds. Like, yes, it's magical. I agree. It's a benefit of having, you know, robust circadian rhythms. Yeah. Yeah. On that note, when you're traveling, you travel a ton. Are there any tips or tricks that that you use to kind of help offset some of the negative implications of just desynchronized circadian rhythms? Yeah. I mean, I try to. stay, if my trip is short, I try to stay in the same time zone, which can be hard if I'm going

from coast to coast and if it's longer than like three or four days, I generally can't. But if I'm just going to New York for a day, I'm going to wake up, you know, very early in the morning and I'm probably going to go to bed very early at night. If it's, you know, if it feels different or I think I said that backwards, time zones are hard. But you know what I mean? Yeah, the other direction. Exactly. The other thing that I think about is my sleep environment at the hotel. So I always pack one of those clock clips because there's always a break in between the blackout curtains that lets light in and it makes me bananas. So I twist them and I put a little clock clip there. I always pack earplugs. I have an app on my phone that presents a fan noise. That's the only thing this app does.

I think I downloaded it in like 2006. But it's a fan app and it just makes a white noise sound and that helps me sleep as well. So some of these comforts from home I bring into my environment to make sure I sleep well. There are other times where I know I didn't get a good night sleep. And my whoop recovery is like, you should definitely not work out today. But I know that my mental health is going to feel better if I do a movement session. So I'll tailor it based on my whoop recovery and my sleep stats, but I still move. Because for me, that's a hugely foundational part of both my mental health and my physical health. So sometimes I kind of fudge based on, again, the trip and what I know is coming up.

But, you know, if I can't prioritize sleep every single might, but I can squeeze a little movement session in. Sometimes that actually helps. I mean, what about napping? Do you nap? Do you nap? And I feel like napping is kind of totally acceptable in the holidays. I mean, you got grandpa falling asleep on the, couch. Like you got the uncle is, you know, totally passed out. Like, yeah. What do you think about, you know, throwing a nap or two? I'm not a napper. Not because I don't like them, but because I get like eight and a half hours of sleep night and just don't need them. But naps, I think, are magical for a couple of reasons. Number one, they give you that, they help you catch up on that sleep debt. They really do. And even if you just nap for 20 minutes, number two, sometimes we just need a break from

our family. And like there are only so many times I can go walk the dog, right? I use walking the dog very, oh, I'm going to go take the dog for a walk. And that gives me a little bit of alone time. Saying I'm going to go to my room just to take a short nap is very acceptable during the holidays. Whether you nap or you read or you just hang out and chat with your spouse or whatever that looks like I think that's another way to get a little bit of downtime to recharge your batteries. And then if you do get a little extra sleep because you need it, that's a nice bonus. Yeah, I like the, hey, I'm going downstairs to watch little teddy play video games. Yeah. Yeah. That works. Yeah, just fine. But I think in this, well, I think segues well into our mental health conversation, like knowing when

you need a break, I think especially for folks who are a little more introverted, for example, like, you know, holidays, you have to sustain an energy level. And you have to know when to build in little breaks. So you can, you know, kind of come to the interactions with a nice level of presence and engagement. And that means you have to kind of think strategically about your time. So maybe talk a little bit about that. Yeah. I am the most introverted person. I need alone time. Like most people need to breathe. And I have told everyone in my family and my inner circle group and my husband's family, what this means. I need to, when I need to recharge, I need to do it alone. I can't do it when other people are around. I need a very specific environment. And if I get a half hour to recharge,

I can come back and I'm happier and I'm more relaxed and I can extend my time with you. But if I don't get that time, I feel claustrophobic. I feel like I can't breathe. I get really short. And like, that's not a fun environment for anybody. So having that conversation ahead of time, what it means to be introverted, mean I'm shy. It doesn't mean I can't make small talk. It just means that I need to recharge more frequently and I have to do it alone can be very helpful. And then build that time in. I remember last year at Thanksgiving, I was like, I'm going to go for a walk. And my dad was like, oh, I'll come. And I was like, nope. And I literally walked out the door. And he was like, okay. But like, it's okay to say, I'm going to run to Target. I'm going to go to the grocery store. I'm going to go for

a walk. I'm going to take the dog out. I'm going to whatever. And if people say like, oh, I'll go with you to say, no, that's okay. No, thanks. I need this time alone. Or no, thanks. I'm going to use this for myself. Or I'm going to listen to my audio book. Or I really just need a break. Whatever you say to your family, it's okay to do that. And I want you to take that time as much as you need to be able to sustain that energy. Because otherwise, the way you show up is short and cranky and irritable and burned out. And that's not fun for anyone. Why do you think it's so hard for people to say no during the holidays? Oh, well, because the holidays are supposed to be magical and perfect. Right. We have this idea built up, and especially post-pandemic, where we haven't been able to spend as much time with family, especially during those first few years, you know, we feel like, well, I only get to see this part of the family once a year. And it's like anything they want. I should be able to say yes to you. Like, I should be able to suck it up. It's only a week or it's only a weekend. But again, you know, then you're showing up in a way that doesn't feel good for you and doesn't feel comfortable for you. And we think we're being nice when we say yes to every

request and every demand, but the way we show up when we're overextended like that doesn't feel particularly nice. And it's not good for our relationship. So I think it's important to set boundaries, not just so that you show up better for the other person, but so that you feel happy and comfortable and at ease yourself. You deserve that for the holidays too. It's not just about what everybody else wants. Yeah, that's well said. How do you, just to go back to the introvert extrovert because I think that's I think when you understand what those two terms mean and you understand if someone's an extrovert like it explains their behavior right like it it makes it simplifies things so how do we you know imagine you know you've got your family from Jersey and

you know they have no idea what introvert is no idea what an extrovert is they just they're trying to explain your behavior and they can't do it like is there anything you can do to educate folks on kind of who you are and what you need and you know so almost like ahead of the event or the time with family, you can kind of prep them. Is that even appropriate? Is that how would you recommend someone go about that? Oh, I definitely would. I've had these conversations with family and friends outside of events, because if you're trying to do it in the event, especially if you're already overextended, it's probably going to sound like, I need it, I need five minutes alone. You guys are killing me. And then that's not the vibe you want, right?

Totally. But I think it can be helpful. You know, when I met my husband, we sat down and I was like, I need a lot of alone time. And I need you to understand that it's not about you. It's not that you are draining. It's not that I need time away from you. It is that I need time away from all people and all stimulation in order to recharge my batteries. And so I told him that. And then I showed him with my behavior, right? Hey, I'm going to go in my room for a half hour. I'll catch up with you when I'm done. And then when I came out, he saw that I was more relaxed and happier and better able to sort of sustain a connection with him. And he was like, oh, okay, I get it. I don't know that you're going to be able to have that level of conversation with everybody and your family, but I think it's perfectly appropriate to say, you know how the longer the party goes on, the happier you are and the more energized you are? It's like you get energy from the group. I'm the opposite. I love hanging out with the group, but when my batteries are drained, I need to go somewhere else to recharge them. And that's why I take 20 minutes by myself or 30 minutes by myself. It really helps me to feel centered and grounded, and then it helps me come back to you with

more energy. And I think that's a pretty easy way to explain. it. I love that. I feel like it's getting more accepted, too. You know, I think people realize that there's a spectrum, right? And people are going to fall somewhere on the spectrum and it's going to vary per individual, you know, sometimes greatly. And yeah, being more open to this conversations, I feel like, is, yeah, I sense that that's happening. Not everything during the holidays has to be a group activity. That's the other thing, too. I hear this a lot with people who take vacations with their family where they're like, oh my gosh, my family wants to do everything together. And sometimes I just want to eat a meal by myself or shop by myself. And it's the same thing

over the holidays. Not everyone needs to go to the grocery store. Not everyone needs to go to Target. Not everyone needs to go on the walk after dinner. It's okay for you to tap out on some of those events. Maybe you have a conversation ahead of time with your mom and you say, you know, what's coming up this week and like what is really important to you that I'm there for? So you don't skip out on the one thing that really would mean the most to her. But then the other stuff, go do your your own thing. Have your own time. I think the less a big deal you make out of it, the less a big deal everyone will. And we'll just be like, oh yeah, Melissa's going to go read her book for a little while while we play another hand of whatever game we're playing. Is there anything else you do to kind of get

yourself into the right headspace going into the holidays? Like what, you know, what can folks do just to be as centered as possible kind of going into the demanding holidays? I think there are a lot of things that we think about saying to our families ahead of time, but don't because we're trying to be nice. We're trying not to rock the boat. We don't want to create conflict, but then we show up to the holidays, feeling anxious and stressed and like maybe avoiding certain people or avoiding certain conversations or holding people at a distance because we're afraid that this conversation topic or this behavior or this situation is going to come up. And honestly, the kindest thing you can do for your relationship and for yourself, is to have that conversation ahead of time.

Hey, Mom, can't wait to see you at Christmas. Listen, please don't ask us about having kids. And if you could pass it along to, like, other people in the house, we don't want to talk about it. That's not a subject we want to talk about. It's really painful when people ask us. I'm sharing this with you because you're my mom, but I'm not going to explain it to anyone else because it's not their business.

Please don't ask us about that, this visit. Think about the sense of relief you would have going into the holidays. that this one topic that you are stealing yourself against just isn't going to come up because you made one really clear kind request. Have those conversations ahead of time as best as you can to free yourself from the burden and the anxiety and the stress that not having them might put on you. I love that. Yeah. It's perfect. What would you say, you know, I know, obviously your mental health and physical health are super tightly connected. What would you, how do people, Like if they, there's no gym, you know, so they go to their family's house.

There's like, there's no gym. It's, you know, 18 degrees outside, you know, what do you recommend folks do to kind of stay fit and just know that for some people like that is such a huge stress reliever? So when they don't get to be active, like they really can, you know, it's tough. So what would you, what would you recommend? Okay, so, you know, first of all, understand that years or decades of physical progress that you have built in the gym or in your sport is not going to disappear in a four-day period if you don't work out. So please don't worry or stress about that. For me, if I can just walk every day,

I'm good. Would I rather be in a gym doing a workout? Sure. Would I rather be in a yoga class or going for a hike? I would. But if every day I can at least go out for a walk and bonus, if I pack my 20-pound ruck with me and toss it on, I'm going to feel so much better. I'm going to be outside. I'm going to be moving. You know, walking might give you an opportunity to connect with someone in your family. They go for a walk. You have a nice casual conversation and a little one-on-one time, or you go by yourself and you get that quiet time that you need. But if I can at least do that, so if you're going somewhere where it's negative 18 degrees, bring a warm jacket, bring your hat, bring your gloves, because no temperature is too chilly to walk in as far as I'm concerned if you

have the right gear. But that should be like a baseline. If you can get out for a walk in the morning and then maybe another one in the early evening or after a meal, I think you're in pretty good shape. If you know that there's a space like a garage or even a room and you can bring a few small pieces of equipment, a couple of bands or one kettlebell with you. Like we've packed, you know, a few small, like a set of dumbbells, you can do a lot with a yoga mat and a set of dumbbells. So if that makes you feel better, great. Research ahead of time. Is there a crossfit gym in the area? Is there, you know, some other kind of gym in the area where you could call and be like, hey, could I drop in one day and carve out the time to do it? But a little bit of planning and preparation

up front goes a long way and then adjusting your expectations. So it's, look, if I just get a little bit of movement in every day, even if it's just some sun salutations on my yoga mat in my bedroom, I'm going to feel much better than if I don't do anything because I can't do exactly what I want to do, you know? Yeah, I love that. It even, you can even disguise some of the movement, you know, just do dishes and kind of helping pick up around the house. And, you know, there's lots of little things that you can stay active.

Dogs and kids are a great excuse for staying active. I'm going to go out back and throw the ball with the kids. I'm going to play tag with the kids. I'm going to take the dog for a walk or throw a ball for the dog. Those are great ways to stay active. And people really appreciate when you take the kids out of the house for a little while. Knee hockey in the basement. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Jack loves that. That was for you, Jack. Stress. So let's talk a little bit about stress monitor, how you might. I don't know if you use those data in the Woop app. We have the stress monitor, scale of zero to three, and it basically maps you on that scale.

You can see your stress in kind of real time. Do you think about, oh, my stress is really elevated right now? And let me bring myself back down. Let me re-center myself. Is that something you do kind of consciously throughout the day? And if so, we'd love to hear how you think about that. Yeah. So it's interesting.

I do like the stress monitor on the Woop app. And what I really pay the most attention to is how much. time I have in a high stress state that is not related to activity. Because then it's like, okay, this is my work stress. This is the heated conversation I got into over Zoom with some colleagues, whatever that looks like. And I find that really interesting. I do tend to pay attention to my stress levels over the course of a day in a very sort of organic and like behind the scenes fashion. So for example, if I notice that I'm really short or responding in an inappropriately kind of elevated fashion to something that's really not that big a deal. I'm like,

okay, I need to take a pause here. Honestly, if I realize that I've been sitting at my desk and I haven't even stood up for two or three hours, I'm going to like shake myself out of it, come upstairs, make something to eat, go for a walk, sit outside for a little while. So I do try to build those points in during my day. And I have a few natural break points during my day where organically every day I take a break from work. I kind of clear my vision. I clear my creative. out of my head and do something else. Often, I'll fold laundry or tidy an area or do some meal prep, one of the benefits of working from home. So, Melissa, you're not a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist, but you have, I think, an unbelievable perspective and have tons of knowledge

related to human behavior. So I just want you to imagine, like, you know, I'm one of your best friends and I'm, Melissa, when I enter to the holidays, you know, I tend to, you know, drink to kind of cope with stress. I eat to cope with stress. You know, what would be your advice for me on how to, what are some other things I can do to kind of cope effectively with stress and not use alcohol and food as my primary levers? I mean, I think, first of all, just that level of awareness is huge. If you don't realize that that's how you're using alcohol and food as a primary tool for navigating stress and discomfort, you're never going to be able to do anything about it. So I think that level of self-awareness is like a necessary first step. And it's

also fantastic, good for you for recognizing that. The thing that I would do is I would put it back on you and say, what do you think you could do? Because what I find stress relieving, like chopping vegetables, other people might not. So I might say to you, what are some other practices that are accessible, that are easy, that might be short to do in the moment that would help you feel better? Breathing exercises are one of the first things that come to mind. You can do any sort of breathing cadence, whether it's like box breathing or Huberman has his like double an inhale and a long exhale. But you can do that in a room full of people if you want to, kind of, you know, very under the radar or go into the bathroom. And breathing can really help you feel more centered. It can help calm

your nervous system and return you to that nice parismpathetic state. It's incredibly effective. So that's one tool. But I might also say, you know, what else could you do? Is there going to be somebody at the holidays, like my sister is this person, where when one or the other is getting really just stressed out because of family stuff, we'll grab the other one aside, vent for two minutes, be like, okay, I see you, I see you, I know you got this, and then we'll go back and feel okay. So that could be a tool or a strategy, going for a short walk, journaling, any kind of like a movement session. One of the biggest tips, I think, is just employing a pause in holiday decision making. When someone says, do you want something? Pause. Oh, let me think about it. I'll let me think about it. I'll

you know in a little while. When someone says, do you want to come for a walk? Oh, give me a minute. I'll let you know. When are you leaving? I'll let you know in a minute or two. When someone says, do you want another glass of wine? Let me think about that. I'll let you know if I do. You know, those moments where we feel so reactive that tend to just almost hurdle us down this path that we feel like we don't even know how we got on, you can circumvent that by just stopping for a few moments, pausing and checking in with yourself to say, what do I need? how do I feel and what would make me comfortable? That can go a huge, a hugely long way. That's such a beautiful strategy. Yeah. I love that. So Melissa, is there anything that you feel like

we might have missed that you think is important for folks heading into the holidays? Is there anything else we can arm them with? The one thing I'll say is start preparing early. You don't want to have these conversations the day before Thanksgiving when everyone is traveling or busy doing meal prep. You don't want to have them when you get into the room with people where it's far more likely that people will react emotionally or defensively. Start the prep early. Start thinking about what are some things that I could just not do this year. Is it holiday cards? Is it gifting? We could do a whole podcast about my strategy for like not giving gifts or giving, you know, being more conscientious about gift giving. Is it, you know, saying yes to every single event? Is it staying with my parents

versus staying at an Airbnb? Think about ahead of time, well ahead of time. What you could say no to. That would buy you a lot more capacity, more comfort, more ease, and then start having these conversations early to set expectations. And so that you're not stressed between now and this event. You can take a lot of that stress off your plate by having the conversation, setting the expectation, and then you don't have to worry about it. Yeah, I love that. So almost kind of imagining, all right, I'm heading into Thanksgiving, you know, where are the points of friction? Where is the anxiety? And you can kind of, you think about it for 10 minutes. You're going to, you will, I'd be able to identify that source of anxiety or that source of stress.

And then that's, then we take that and then basically build some strategies around it, have the conversations that we need to do, create our boundaries, get our scripts going. So we go into the end of the holidays feeling really empowered and, you know, like we have a sense of agency. Yeah, I love that. That's exactly how I want you going into the holidays feeling. For some folks who are on like a health and wellness journey, it's like we want to tell, we want to get everyone on board, right? Because you feel great.

You have energy. So I'm just going to flip the tables a little bit. And what's your recommendation for, you know, it's like, it's really hard to see when you've got an honor uncle or, you know, a parent who are just like destroying their bodies, right? And engaging in these behaviors where you're like, oh, there's just a better path, you know. What, what, how do you restrain yourself? Yeah. You just have to remind yourself that it's not your business. That is not my business.

They are not my business. These are grown adults who are choosing their own behaviors, choosing their own actions, and their behaviors and consequences are not my business. And if I'm all up in their business, I'm not minding my own. So I understand, I very much understand how difficult it can be to watch someone be in pain or be uncomfortable and feel like you could help them. But if they don't ask, it's not your business. And the strategy I like to employ is just lead by quiet example. I just do my thing. And if someone says, oh, you know, how is your sleep?

You mentioned last year that you were sleeping terribly. I might say, oh, it's so much better. I have figured out just a couple tweaks I could make to my diet. And it's helping me sleep so much better. And my sleep scores are off the charts right now. It's been awesome. Thank you for asking. And that's it.

And if they want to know more, they'll ask and then you can share. But the fastest way to alienate people and honestly cause harm is in certain. yourself into their business where you don't belong. So as painful as it is, you just have to remember that they're adults, they have agency, they didn't ask you, and just lead by quiet example. That's not my business. Yeah. Love that. Yeah. You're just like the one sound bite after another. It's like so perfect. But just like shockful of like wisdom and goes so deep. Yeah. I've done a lot of therapy, Kristen, you know? We are the beneficiaries of your therapy because you just put it into a framework that is

so accessible and, yeah, just, yeah, it's phenomenal. So I just appreciate everything that you do for the world. Honestly, your impact is enormous and just so grateful on behalf of WOOP, just everything, just our partnership and just having you in our ecosystem is just, it's magical. So thank you. It's been a joy for me as well. You know, I'm Whoop's number one biggest fan. So it's always nice to talk to you and to get to share more about my journey and hopefully

helping other people have happy, healthy, comfortable holiday season. Is Instagram the best place for folks to find you? Yeah. Yeah. I'm at Melissa You on Instagram. I occasionally show up on TikTok. And my website is MelissaU.com. Yeah.

Perfect. Thanks so much for your time today. Thanks, Kristen. Big thanks to Melissa Urban for sharing all of her tips on how to hack the holiday. and hopefully you can incorporate some of them to your holiday season. If you enjoyed this episode of the WOOP podcast, be sure to leave a rating or review. Check us out on social at Woop at Will Ahmed. Have a question you want to see answered on the podcast.

Email us, podcast, woof.com. Call us 508-443-4952. Reminder, our best deal of the year is now. Year of Woop is just 199. That is at Woop.com. If you're thinking about joining Woop, you can visit our website, sign up for a 30-day free trial. new members can use the code will to get a $60 credit on accessories. And that's a wrap, folks.

Have a safe and happy Thanksgiving for all of our listeners in the U.S. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the Woot Podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green.