WHOOP Podcast - Michael Phelps on his journey to Olympic greatness, his struggles with depression, and how WHOOP helps him be his best

Episode Date: May 4, 2022

Michael Phelps, the most decorated Olympian in history, joins the WHOOP Podcast for an in-depth discussion on his career, high performance, and mental health. Michael talks about his journey to winning 28 Olympic medals, but also details his struggle with depression and anxiety. He explains his mission to help those battling mental health challenges and also talks about how WHOOP plays a critical role in his own health and well-being. He sits down with Will Ahmed to discuss his early days in swimming (1:52), how he quickly discovered swimming was therapeutic for him (3:37), dealing with expectations and his burning desire to win (9:42), capturing his first gold medal (13:31), making sacrifices (16:47), the pursuit of perfection at the Beijing Olympics (19:36), his love of competition (23:25), experiencing emptiness after Beijing (25:04), recovery and sleep (27:48), why WHOOP (29:41), his mental health struggles and his darkest moments (34:02), showing the world the "real" Michael Phelps (39:37), trying to lower the suicide rate (45:56), flow states (48:22), diet and nutrition while training (55:17), and the Michael Phelps Foundation (56:55). Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

What's up folks? This is the WOOP podcast where we sit down with the highest performing athletes, experts, doctors, you name it, to tell us more about performance and physiology. Help us learn what we can do to unlock our own performance. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Woop. And we have a great, great guest for you today, Michael Phelps. I'm going to get to Michael in half a second. First, I'll remind you, you can check out the Woop membership. at whoop.com. Use the code will. Get 15% off a Woop membership and use this technology to measure everything about your strain and your recovery and your sleep. Okay, the great Michael Phelps joins us for a long conversation. Michael, 28-time Olympic medalist, an unbelievable career athlete, competitor. We talk about everything it took for him to become such an enormous Olympic success, his training, his recovery, his diet, his preparation, his mindset, his work with coach Bob Bowman, his family, really all the sacrifice and hard work that it took to become such an enormous success. We also talk about the challenges that Michael's faced in his life, the fact that he has gone

through periods of depression, even thoughts of suicide. He's very open about mental health and how important it is to him as an initiative to really improve mental health globally. I think this is a really fascinating conversation. So without further ado, here is Michael Phelps. Michael, welcome to the WOOP podcast. Thank you. Thank you. So we're going to talk a lot about performance and mindset, training.

You've been on WOOP for a long time, so I'm excited to talk to you about that. But I thought we could start by just going back in time. you know, what are your first memories of swimming? First, I can go back to, you know, probably not wanting to put my face into the water. When I first learned to swim, Miss Kathy, who taught me how to swim, who does all of my learn to swim for my foundation, found that I was uncomfortable on my stomach. I was afraid on my stomach.

So she kind of just flipped me on my back and put me on my back. And when I overcame that fear, just threw my face into the water. I think I was always in trouble. I had a lot of energy as a kid. So I was always running on the pool deck, which obviously you can't do. And I was always getting benched by the lifeguards. So, yeah, being afraid of the water and getting in trouble. Those are the two things I probably remember.

You were known as a hyperactive kid. You were diagnosed with ADHD, and you found that swimming in a lot of ways could help calm you down, keep under control. Your older sisters, Whitney and Hillary, were really good swimmers. So talk a little bit about how that pulled you into the water. Well, I grew up around the pool, naturally. As you said, my two older sisters swam. One was internationally ranked, third in the world, first in the nation at 11 or 12.

So she was traveling all over the world, going to Rome, a few world championships, international trips. And I was like, oh, that looks fun. Like, I want to do that. So she was able to do that, and then I just kind of followed in her footsteps. But they kind of taught me the ropes on competing in, I guess, competition. In one of your books you describe not liking the feeling of Ritalin as a kid, and one of your first goals was to overcome Ritalin and not have to take it.

So swimming, I think, for me, as weird as it sounds, staring at a black line was calming because I could kind of get lost in my own head or I could just feel like I was free in the water. So for me, even now today, when I jump into the pool, it's kind of like therapy in a way almost because it's the only time where my mind is completely. silent and nothing is going on. I can just go on autopilot. So swimming I think as a kid helped me kind of wean myself off riddle him because that's for me as a kid growing up I didn't want to go to the doctor's office and take that or you know the nurse's office every day at lunch and take my medication. So my mom said if you can show me how to focus then yeah we can work on it. So for me swimming was just a path to get me started in the right direction to help me focus on something and I was passionate about it you know and I think that showed and at what age

did you meet Bob Bowman who'd become your your longtime coach Bob and I started working together at 11 and he he basically sat down with me and my parents and said if you want to make the Olympic team in four years you can and I was like oh okay cool I'll quit all the other sports and we'll focus on swimming so for me just that little bit of confidence that he gave me was all I needed you know he believe that I could do it. And he saw talent. And for me, you know, as I said, seeing my sisters grow up on the international scene, that's what I wanted. It's amazing reading about your relationship with Bob and what like an enormous role he played, especially in those younger years. I mean, it seems like he became a bit of a father figure to you. My parents split

at a very young age. So, you know, I spent a lot of time at the swimming pool. We were always traveling to meets or doing training camp. So I spent a lot of time with Bob. Bob was that father figure to me and he's the grandparent to my kids now. He's come to the house all the time and he plays with them every day. So he has been a big part in my life, not just in the swimming pool. Well, it was interesting as you were preparing for trying to make that first Olympics team, you're 14 years old and Bob went around and told everyone really in your life not to say the word Olympic around you. You don't want to put all of these things in your head because if all of the pieces aren't in place, then it's not going to happen.

right way right so he was still trying to figure out how the pieces fit into the puzzle for me but on the outside chance that everything goes well I could be on the Olympic team so we didn't want to jinx anything and we can't do anything without the work right we're unable to get any of the results that we had in the pool without what happens behind behind closed doors right when Bob and I are training four hours a day that's what helps me that's what prepares me that's what gives me the confidence to go and stand behind the block and feel prepared and ready to go. Was it obvious to you at that point in your life that, like, you weren't growing up

quite like the other kids? I felt like I was a normal kid. Okay. Like, I found, I found something that I was passionate about, right? Like, I found something that I loved. And it was just like, oh, cool. Like, yeah, I guess this is just what you're supposed to do. I mean, I probably obsessed at it at a young age. And I think that was part of the reason why I was able to have the success that I did. It's amazing reading your story, how many sort of narrow doors you were able to get through. Like, even just looking back at the Olympic trials when you're, you know, 14, turning 15, you were, you had to get second place in the 200 I.m. 200 fly, excuse me. And you were in fifth place after 150 meters.

Seventh. I was seventh after the 150 and ended up getting second. Which is crazy, right? For me at that time, yeah, like I came out of nowhere. No one thought that I really had a chance to be on that team. But for me, with how I swam and how we prepared, I never died, or like, I never got tired, so you say, at the end. And that was kind of when I just canapulted in front of everybody and gave myself a chance. And I got my hand on the wall, I think, about a little bit more than a half a second ahead of third place.

And we were able to drop a second from my trial's time, 98-100s from my trials time to my Olympic time. And that's all we wanted to do, one second. It's amazing. And so then you're off to Sydney. And on the day of your race, you actually lose your credentials. Took the wrong credential. Yeah. So Aaron Pearson and I were roommates. And we both just hung our credential on the door. So as I'm leaving for the pool, I grab his credential instead of mine. So I can't get into the credential or I can't get into the pool with his credential. So we had to somehow figure out a way to get back to the village, have somebody bring my credential to me outside and then go back over to the pool. And by that point, I was already late getting into the water. I was kind of off my routine. So maybe that's why I didn't get the results that I wanted, but I'm happy I got the results that I did because that helped me catapult my way into the next four years, which got crazy. It feels like that little mistake or that

learning experience probably played a huge focusing role for you. 100%. I think every Olympics or every swimming meet, I was able to take something from that helped me throughout my whole entire career. Every single Olympics for me, I feel like I was just more prepared. I was more relaxed. I was more ready to go. So I think once I came to my last Olympics, that's why it was so easy almost just because it was something I was passionate about. But I'd picked up so many tools along the way that just like riding a bike. And let's talk about the role of expectations. I mean, I think one really fascinating theme in your life is just how high expectations were for you, even at such a young age. You know, when you're 16, 17 getting ready for ultimately Athens, there's all this talk

about you having to break Mark Spitz record, right, which was seven gold medals in one Olympics. You hadn't even won a gold medal yet. And there's already talk of can you get seven or more in one in one go. On top of that, you had a relationship with Speedo, I understand, right, where they were going to you a million dollar bonus if you did it. So then you kind of leaned into those expectations. And some would say that expectations can create more nerves or more pressure. Some can say that maybe it makes it stronger. I didn't really care because like again, the preparation that I did behind closed doors was going to give me the opportunity. And if I prepared myself the best way possible, I knew that I was the most prepared person out there. I knew I was the best

somewhere out there. If everything went well, right? Like if I did all of the training that I needed to do, then the results were going to come. And I saw that building up to that point. So honestly, like, as you said, like I put the pressure on myself. I wanted to win every single time I get in the pool. I don't like to get second. I don't like to get third. I don't like not making the podium. So, you know, for me, it's one place. It's winning. That's it. And if I don't win, how can I make sure that that never happens again? How can I make sure that the next time I go out there, I'm on top and not on second or third? I just put an absurd amount of pressure on myself that it doesn't matter what is going on in the outside world. It's irrelevant. And it doesn't

matter like the bonuses, anything. I don't care. For me, I just hold myself at that expectation of being absolutely perfect at any time. You had a couple amazing things that you said. You said that you thought maybe you could win 15 gold medals one day. Yeah, I mean, if the event program is different than maybe, but like for me to do the events that I swim right now, it's almost impossible. You know, like Ryan, Lockty always did the two-back, two-im double. The 200-back just crushes your legs. So to be able to have that, and then like 20 minutes later, come back and do the 200-I-M final, oh my gosh. Like I had the 100-fly semifinal. I had the 100-fly semifinal and the 200-I-M final on the same day. He had two-back, two-I-m. So it's like, strategy-wise,

like that was the best that we could do with the event order. One thing I admire a lot is that you really felt you seem to acknowledge that swimming as a sport wasn't on the right platform yet you wanted to change the sport of swimming and not just because you wanted to be great but because you wanted more people to watch swimming and talk about it so i went to australia and spent a ton of time in australia throughout my career and and a lot of my closest swimming friends are australian how swimming is in australia it's like the nba it's like major league baseball it's massive Everybody knows them. So for me, like, I wanted that here.

I want that here. I think we've come so far in the last two decades. But, you know, like for me, I think, and I know this, USA Swimming is one of the most dominating international teams, period. Like, we always win the most medals. We always break the most records. Like, it's just facts. So for me, I just wanted more people to understand that and learn about it.

But I also wanted to have more people involved in the sport. I wanted to grow the sport more. You know, for me, I was learned or I was taught the sport purely for water safety. That's it. My mom, we were always around the pool. So she wanted us to be safe and not just get into an uncomfortable situation. So the importance of water safety was the reason why I started swimming. Right.

It wasn't even to treat it as a sport. No, it wasn't to go out and win 28 medals. It was just for safety. So for me, like that was the biggest thing. And it ended up just taking off. It's fascinating. And so you obviously go on to Athens. You have what seems like a pretty amazing result, six gold medal, two bronzes. There's an interesting moment where you win your first gold medal and you describe sort of this unbelievable emotion. And yet then Bob's quickly

ushering you to do a cool down. You have to get to the podium and then you have to get back in the pool for another race. Eat, recover, massage. Yeah. And it's interesting reading it because it's like, Like here, all this work has gone into your first gold medal, which for many people would be an unbelievable achievement in that of itself. And then you're quickly being ushered to the next, to the next. And it sort of becomes in a way emblematic of your career, which is on to the next medal. It was crazy. I mean, I'll never forget that moment sharing my 400-I.M medal with my mother through a chain-linked

fence. I had just broken the Olympic record, the world record, won my first Olympic gold medal. And I handed her to the medal and was like, Mom, we did it. I did it. And Bob came over my left shoulder, left or right shoulder and was like, all right, come on, like whatever, his whistle, and was like, let's go, we got to get in the pool. And I had to go and warm down. I had to clear my lactic acid out of my system because I had the 200 free the next morning. So I had to get up and stand against Ian Thorpe and Peter Van Hoganban and the best athletes in the world. So I get it, but it's crazy looking back at now

because I don't think I've fully been able to comprehend and understand everything that I went through in my career because of that point what's next that's what we were always chasing where can I go next what how much faster can we get how how much more can we push the limit yeah it's amazing reading about these different transitions from one event to the other and it seems like it's very hard to stay present so to speak with what just happened it's like onto the next right I would be on the podium for let's call it the 400 I am and I'm already thinking about my next race Yeah, 100%. I'm thinking about what I have to do in the morning, how I have to split it. Like, I can't use or I don't want to say waste because it's not a right word to say it,

but it's the best way to describe it. I can't waste emotional energy in that moment because the rest of the week is going to call for so much, right? So, you know, for us to be able to perfect what we did in 2008, that started back in 2003, right? So that was a process leading up to that point for us to swim that many races back to to back to back at the highest level. What was your reaction to when the media was saying, well, maybe this wasn't quite the greatest performance, six golds, two bronzes?

Yeah, everyone said it was a failure. For me, I laugh about it because how in somebody's right mind can they say that's a failure? Because there aren't many people on this planet that can say they're an Olympic gold medalist. And for me to be able to do that, it was a lifetime dream to just have that opportunity once.

I had the chance to have it six times there. Well, eight times there. I just fell short in the other two. But that gave me the motivation, clearly for the next four years. So from 2004, you estimate that you took about four days off. Yeah, I think it was from my wisdom teeth and something else. It was a five-year stretch where we didn't miss a single day.

I mean, maybe you're so ingrained to, but from my perspective, that's such an unbelievable level of commitment and sacrifice. I mean, yes, but also at the same time, like, there was no blueprint for me to do what I was trying to do, right? So we had to approach it in a completely different way. Nobody in the swimming world was swimming seven days a week, but if you swim seven days a week Well, excuse me if you don't swim seven days a week when you take off Sunday You're not back to where you were on Saturday until Tuesday

So I'm getting two days out of every single week More than any of my competitors are now were there ever moments in that five-year stretch where you felt like you were over trained No never I mean because we were so like we were just on top of everything if I was if I was sure if I was if I was like I was like any kind of pain had it checked up no matter what it's amazing yeah I don't like again like I wanted an opportunity so for me I didn't care about the sacrifices that I was making because I always thought what if what if I what if I have the chance to do something great it's all I wanted I didn't care I was missing out on a party or a dance or this or that or hanging out with my friends like

for me again like I thought I thought what I was doing was normal with an eye towards Beijing how much was your mindset eight gold medals you can't I mean you can't really think eight gold medals like you can think you have a chance at it but sure you can't win eight without the first right so again it's back to that process of one race at the time you know like i know the foreign i am it's right out of the gate like i got to be ready and then it's the relay a four by one free relay right eight one hundred so we win that by so it's like all of these things have to go perfectly for for it all to work um winning the hunter fly by a hundredth of a second the smallest margin of victory like it's just crazy when you really

break it down and think about it. It's hard to comprehend. There's a great moment in Beijing where you dive into the water for the 200 fly and your goggles get filled with water. Talk about how you overcame that and ultimately won a gold. You'll hear me talk so much about preparation. That's the number one most important thing. So for me, whenever I'd swim a 200 fly, my first 50 would be 16 strokes, second will be 17 strokes, third would be 18, and my fourth would be 19 or 20, depending on how my legs feel and how many kicks I'm taking off each wall. And are you counting those in real time or? Dependence. Could you almost do it at the once you hit the wall? You're like, that was 17. Like I can, I think at that time in that moment, I purposely did it. You were counting

though. I was. Because you couldn't see. I had no visibility. It's crazy. I mean, after 25 meters, I was completely blind. So the reason why that was so easy for me to do was we would do that in practice. So if I'm going 26 seconds, I have to take 16 strokes, 28 seconds, 18 strokes. So I'm swimming to try to learn how to be as efficient as I can every single stroke I take in practice. So for me, at the biggest moment, it comes out and it's natural, right? I'm on autopilot. So my goggles do fill up with water. I instantly, I take my kicks. Like, I normally would count my kicks off the wall just because of the 15 meter mark, and I don't want to ever go past it.

So the 15 meter mark is as far as we can go underwater. Athletes can go underwater before getting disqualified. But I mean, like, you want to be underwater because you get out of the wash and the wake that's on top and it's clean water. So for me, that was one of my weapons. So I know it would take 9 to 10 kicks to get to 15 meters. So by that point, I could tell my goggles are filling up. And I snapped one into habits. count strokes right and you pray you hit it had hit it at the right time and after the first

wall I did and the rest was just ended up being history I mean like I honestly I remember lunging and I saw I broke a world record and I like barely like man barely see and I was pissed honestly I thought I could go 150 in that race then I was so prepared for that race I truly thought I could have gone a second and a half faster huh so like for me again like it's these it's these little small things The goals that I set throughout my quad every single year, I fell short of missing that. Even though I won and broke the world record, yes, I'm still upset, because that's me. I want nothing but perfection. It's hard, but, and it's, I mean, it makes life difficult now, but I've had to learn a lot.

But, yeah, like for me, everything mattered. Talk a little bit about the mindset, you know, the night before a big race or even standing on the blocks. Like, were there any tools, you, nothing? Preparation. If you're not prepared, you're not going to be able to be calm, right? I want to be calm. I don't want to have to worry about my streamline, how many kicks I'm going to take, this, that, or the other. I want to just let it all go and be in that moment. Because when you're in the moment, that's the best chance for you to get the best result. And those shots of you, like, listening to music before, like, what are you thinking about in the... I'm singing the song. You're not even really visualizing. Nothing. You can't do anything that's going to change the outcome right then and there. Right? So the only thing you can do is be your best calm self. So for me, how can I do that? Music. That was the best thing for me. Like, I'll visualize stuff at home.

Okay. Before I get to the pool or, like, even before I get to the Olympics. Because I want to be prepared for absolutely anything that's going to come my way. So I would say, I would run the video of how I want the perfect race to go. What if my goggles break? What if my suit rips? What if... So you'd play that out?

I play all of them out. And then, like, how I want it to go, how I don't want it to go, and how it could go. so when you get there your emotions are in check because again your emotions are important especially over a week long an eight-day period where I'm swimming 40 to 50,000 meters during that week it reminds me a little of um of Alex Honnold so you know he free solos Al Capiton but you know he would picture all the different ways he fell yeah for sure before doing it yeah because I mean it's like once you've gotten there you just you've figured out every situation and you're just you're more prepared all right like you're 10 steps

ahead of everybody else and that's that's how we always worked when you'd go to bed right at night would you sometimes visualize the race or the laps I try not to do it getting into bed because you can get amped up right like you can really get yourself going and and it's not really good to kind of have those feelings right before bed for me like that's one time where I'm shutting everything down that's my moment to recharge everything for the night so like I would do that maybe when I wake up from a nap or when I wake up in the morning like different times or if I lay down in the afternoon or just have a quiet moment I can sit down. It's more like meditation more than anything else. And would you have like a traditional meditation practice or mindfulness practice? Nothing like

nothing when I was competing because it was I'm always tired enough to fall asleep so I'm like okay cool like because I like for the two or three hours every day I'm at the pool every single amount of energy that I have is focused on that. And then when I leave, I'm kind of in my own world, right? But I know my recovery, my sleep, like eating, all of this stuff happens because I've done it for an extended period of time. So it just happens. I was eat, sleep, and swim. That was literally all I did for 20 years. Well, it's interesting listening to talk about it because there's like a winning autopilot that it sounds like you just would go into for these races. And it comes from obviously years and hours of preparation, but, you know, I mean, there's other super high-profile

athletes who talk about performance anxiety and, like, being on those blocks and not feeling that. For me, I've loved competition more than absolutely any part of what I did. So I wanted to swim as fast as I could, and I knew that if I didn't train, there was no way that I was going to have the chance to break a world record or compete against the best people in the world. Like, Lachti, him and I competed against each other for 15 years. We were one and two every single time. I had to keep my game up. And if I wasn't, there was somebody else that was going to pass me.

It's interesting at various Olympics, it seems like you would find also little ways to motivate yourself. Well, I didn't need to. Everyone else just gave me those little ways. The French saying they were going to smash us like guitars in 2008, or Ian Thorpe saying that it was impossible for somebody to ever win eight gold medals at an Olympics. Or he said in 2016, nobody over the age of 30 would win an individual gold medal. So like all of those little things for me, if somebody ever has a doubt, I love it.

All it's going to do is fuel me a hundred times over. We always found a way to get a little bit more out of it. Like in those moments, like, you know, 2008, after the semi-final 100 fly that night, semi-final 100 fly, final 200 a.m., I remember looking at Bob and being like, I got nothing left. Like, I'm done, I'm cashed. I literally felt like I was going to fall over, had no energy at all. He goes, well, that's too bad.

because you have another race tomorrow and the relay the next day. Like, find a way. You got to find a way. So, yeah, there are times. It's just, that was hard. That was one of the most brutal, brutal turnarounds for me. That week took a lot out of me. Wow, an amazing accomplishment.

It was fun, yeah. So, following that, I mean, it seems like you went through a period of almost like, what's next. Yeah, lost. I mean, after you accomplished your lifetime dream and goal, like, where are you supposed to go? go like what's next and by the way you're 23 years old mm-hmm I was a baby 23 years old just won eight gold medals in 2008 like what do I do what's next so for me at

that point like I basically just hung on because I felt like I had to I had sponsors and and obligations that I had to had to follow in order to get everything that I was doing and and for me I just kind of like half-assed it for four years like that whole quad like I was not in not interested not engaged I would skip practice all the time and then like two years I guess leading up to it I just went full grind mode so from 2010 to 12 10 to 12 I went like I went full grind mode we spent six weeks at Colorado Springs at altitude six weeks there is like 18 weeks at sea level and had you done Colorado Springs before we do it for four

months three or three or four weeks excuse me not six weeks straight six weeks straight you start to lose it go it's I mean it feels like you're in like a jail So, it's hard. Like, I mean, like, and I mean that in a good way, because it's like, look, we're in dorms. We, you know, we don't leave property, right? So it's eat, sleep, swim, recover, that's it. We're swimming. I think we had triples.

So we would have, like, for a three weeks, three weeks span, we would have, it would be like 60 or 70 workouts. And that's swimming and dry land. So 16 workouts a week. It's brutal. I mean, you literally, you almost go crazy. I said that was the hardest part. Honestly, being there for a long stints, for me, was very mentally challenging. Did you ever have trouble sleeping at altitude?

I never have trouble sleeping anywhere. I mean, you put me on a pillow still to this day. I can be out in 15 minutes. Well, even today, your average sleep over the past month, eight hours and 16 minutes, according to whoops. So that's pretty good. I try to. So I try to beat my sound machine to sleep. I'm trying to I try to get into bed before my sound machine turns on and that turns on at 8.55 every day.

So I'm in bed by like 845 every night. Have you ever taken supplements or anything like that to fall asleep? I used to take Ambien. I took Ambien for a long time. Really? We were given Ambien in 2000 because traveling overseas, we try to get acclimated as fast as we can. And I took it all the way until 2016. Every night.

Almost every night. Well, you know what's interesting about that is. the data that we have on Ambien is it often doesn't give you as much room and slow it's awful it's not like you don't get the best sleep and and like I'm a numbers guy I'm a data guy like I can wake up and basically tell you what my score is going to be what my percent's going to be for recovery just because of how it based off how I feel yeah yeah and if I'm somewhere like I mean I've had a couple one percenters in there and those are painful like those are miserable but for me like recovery is important I hold myself to

a high standard and I want to be able to do so much throughout the day. And if I'm not taking care of my body, I don't have the chance to do that, right? So I make sure I need, or I make sure I get the amount of sleep that I need every single night. Well, I certainly appreciate the fact that you've been on whoop for quite some time. I think you got on whoop first in 2015. Like, what does it take for someone like you who's won all these things and accomplished so much to say, you know, I'm going to try something new? I'm going to introduce something new. I mean, for me, like, I want to know my data. I'm big on sleep.

I want to know my percent's REM, deep, light. I want to know, like, I want to try to hit those 20 percent barriers. Like, that's for me, like, in deep and REM, I want it 20 percent every night. For me, if I'm 20 percent every night, I know I'm the best me every single day, no matter what. I strive for that every day. And if I don't, then I try to fix things during the day, whether it's my diet, what I do, what I do before bed, like all of this stuff to make. sure I get it. What are certain things you've observed that affect that quality of sleep? Dehydration is something that's huge. I mean, I had COVID. So the numbers that I had from

COVID were wild. My heart rate was up 10 beats. My skin temperature was off five degrees. Respiratory rate was like six clicks higher or something. And I was like something. I bet you have a low respiratory rate. My resting heart rate I know is typically like 42. So I think my respiratory rates 15 14 that's number of breaths you have in a minute while you're sleeping I just want to know what I'm doing and I want to be able to give myself the best chance to be the best me right so for me I like looking at at the dashboard I think the dashboard tells me everything that I want to know this is the whoop dashboard the whoop dashboard in an easy way right like I absolutely love it like I've looked at the ring and like all this stuff sure and I think this dashboard whoops dashboard is

the best like I like the reading of it I like the simplistic view of it I get every information every piece of information that I need like 23% deep sleep last night you know like these little things for me are big they're important I'm somebody who's working in hundreds of a second my whole entire life right and that's that was my benchmark so for me how can I be the best me today so again like I need sleep I need to make sure like everything inside is going well and this gives me that and it's something that pick up my phone right now and I can tell you what my heart rate is, right? Like all of these little things, for me,

I just think it makes life easier and just gives us a chance. I mean, I want to be great. I want to be the best me I can be. And I think this helps me. First of all, it's amazing having you on Woop. It's very cool for me and everyone else who's been building this business for years. I think you telling your story about data and how it helps you stay highly tuned, even now as a father and less so a professional athlete. I think it just, it sends a great message to to the rest of the world. All of us strive to be our best authentic self, right? And if we're, if we don't know what's going on with us, we're not advanced enough to

understand, you know, how important sleep is or hydration, recovery, all of these things. I love, honestly, like I can't say it enough. Like I absolutely love, love the dashboard. And my wife, I got her hooked, I got my, everyone in my family hooked. I mean, there's a competition every single day and it's, I get crushed in the strain. My mother-in-law destroys me in the strain every single day. I don't understand it, but... So what are you doing, what are you doing these days from a strain standpoint, an exercise standpoint?

So, I guess, I'd say my average strain is 13 to 15, 13 to 16 somewhere in there. I see 13.8 with the data you shared with us? If I'm golfing, it's through the roof. Because you get a little nervous out there. And it's like, it's nerves, but it's like, I think it's focused too. Like my focus or my, yeah, my focus ability, I feel like, like I have to be on an every little aspect of it and it's it's different for me because I haven't spent much time out there when I swim it's high and yesterday I swam and it was 8.4 for 35 minutes like me to do 2,500 that seems

a little high maybe I'm out of shape but I mean just just like those things I I like challenging myself every day right and I want to know how hard I can push myself every single day well I think your body probably can't go without exercising my mind can't go without it. If I don't have some kind of exercise, I feel like I turn into an ogre. I turn into just a nightmare. You know, for me, it's just getting those juices firing up again and something's so simple.

And it can be a 30-minute bike ride, whatever it is. It's something I have to do almost every single day. I need it to be me. Going back in time, you grit through 2010, 2012, show up in London. You didn't feel like it was your most prepared, but you win four gold medals, two silver medals and at that point you say I just wanted to be done with swimming. Yeah, I mean going to those Olympics, I just wanted to stiff arm it. I wanted to give the sport the Heisman and get out. I never had a break. I never had time away from the

sport. So for me, I was looking forward to that. All my contracts were finished. I was ready to just move on. I didn't want to smell chlorine anymore. At that point, I just, I hung on and prayed that I was going to get some decent results. I didn't know what was going to come. Obviously, you know, we talked about only two years really of intense training during that quad. I didn't give myself the best chance, but we almost pulled it off. I mean, the 200 fly, had I won the 200 fly, I don't think I would have came back in 16. And so you have this little retirement or actually real retirement. You know, at that point, your life starts to unravel by your own omission, right?

You have a DUI. You find yourself in rehab. That must have been a very humbling moment. It wasn't fun. Yeah, it wasn't enjoyable. You know, I think throughout my career, I had a lot of cries for help and didn't really know what to say or how to do it. And that one moment was, I mean, I was taking the express elevator down and the spiral

staircase straight down. And yeah, I got to the point where, I mean, I didn't want to be alive. And I got to the point where I learned to ask for help too. So, you know, like all of these times or these moments that I've gone through, whether they're good, bad, or ugly, they've all been learning experiences for me. And honestly, going back to that moment in 2014 when I got my second DUI, I honestly, like, without that night, I don't know if I'd be here today. You know, like, I was able to learn so much from that experience.

And, you know, checking myself into a treatment center, the scariest thing I've ever done, admitting that I was, I was not okay. I was weak. I was broken. It was hard. But going through those steps to become who I am today. is the best part. I used to hate who I saw in the mirror. I used to hate it. The only thing I saw was a swimmer. I didn't see anything else. I never saw myself as a human being.

So now being able to see myself as a human being, it's a completely different outlook on life. And I love myself. I like who I am. So now I've been able to accumulate a few tools to help me get through those dark times. And look, like I'll be the first to admit for me going through depression and anxiety, it's not something that's just going to go away. It's a part of who I am and it'll come and go whenever it wants and I feel like I have more things to help me get through those difficult times than I ever did before and I think that's the only thing we can ask and this is a very passionate topic for me and I mean I want to be able to help as many people as I possibly can and and I know the struggle that I'm going

through isn't different than what a lot of other people are going through in this world. So being able to talk about this stuff for me has been such an amazing journey. Being able to hear other people's stories and their experiences through their struggles. It's helped me. Yeah, it's just been a really cool experience. I think your story is so compelling. And I think you being so open about the mental health challenges that you've faced makes you so much more relatable and human in a way. You know, I mean, your career up to 2014 almost seems superhuman, right? Like, unrelatable in a way. And I think by showing that, that, you did struggle and you did have these thoughts

and you did have to work through it. Talk about some of the tools. You mentioned tools to help you cope. Yeah, I mean therapy. Therapy is something for me that, again, put me here. Being able to one see a therapist, but pick up my phone and talk to my therapist whenever I need to. I have a therapist here that I can visually see

and go face to face and see, or I can go online. However, I feel comfortable that day. writing things down, something for me that helps, good, bad, ugly, so I can go back, again, I'm a data guy. So going back and looking at certain days, good, bad, ugly days, like, why was this day bad? Why was this day so good? And how can I get more good days? Eliminate the bad days. So all of these different things for me, on top of working out, on top of, like, self-care, right? Like anything that we do, I think, that this is a time where we need to spend more time on self-care, right? Because I feel like through the pandemic,

loneliness is struck in and when loneliness strikes in depression rises so you know I think that's one thing that I will say to everybody out there watching and and I can't say enough is make sure we're getting that self-care whether it's meditating sleeping take like whatever taking a bath taking a steam shower like I like taking steam showers I like going for a walk a bath there a cold tub for me is always good things that put me in the right mind frame and and the state of mind and that's that's all I want right like again it's back to being my authentic self. How can I be that person every single day, every single moment? You're someone who reached enormous success by pushing through barriers.

How do you know from a mental health standpoint whether you should be pushing through or stepping back? I learned to communicate at an older age. I would say that's the most important thing because we can pile things up and compartmentalize and I'll be the first to admit that's not good and it's not healthy. That put me at a very dark spot and a very uncomfortable spot for me in my life. So I would urge everybody just to communicate, however that looks. Whether it's a friend, whether it's in person, whether it's texting, whether it's writing

stuff down, communicate, get stuff out in the open. That is the one biggest thing that I think really frees us up. Because the more we carry this stuff along, it just puts more and more stress and weight on us. We just start hunching over. So the more we can talk about these things, I think, and get them into the open allows us to just be comfortable and like who we are as individuals. point did you realize that you were going to talk openly and publicly about mental health

challenges? Probably during the Sports Illustrated preview for the 16 Olympics. So right when I came out of treatment, I sat down with a buddy, Tim Layden, who was a writer for SI at the time, and he asked a question. I don't know what the question was. I wish I could, I've asked him and he isn't told me, and I want to know, I don't even know if he knows, but he asked me a whatever that question was, I just poured it all out. I just said, like, I guess at that time, I was just like, this is the right time, the right place, and here you go. I remember when I was in treatment just saying, I don't care what the rest of the world thinks of me, I'm going to show them me. I'm going to show them the real Michael Phelps. And I remember once I said that,

that's all I've done. Like, you're going to see the good, bad, the ugly, like somebody who's going crazy, doing everything that he wants, and you'll see the difference. And you'll see the depressed, unhappy, sad, because that's me. I don't want to hide anything. I am who I am and what you see is what you get. When you see other athletes now coming out and talking about mental health challenges, obviously Simone Biles recently, Naomi Osaka recently, what does that mean to you? It brings me so much joy. It really does because for them, for anybody to really open up and to talk about struggles like this, it's so freeing. And I feel like this is the only way that we're going to be able to get through this as a whole, right?

For so many years, we've all wanted to shove everything under the rug. Now the band-aids off. The rug is out, right? Like, people are ready to talk about it. People are ready to make change and to help others. I loved when Naomi opened up because she did it in such a powerful way. On her terms, in her way, in her words, on her platform, right? And I think to be able to do that, she showed vulnerability.

And that's a scary thing. To become vulnerable is scary for a lot of people. And she did that on a public stage. So for me, I honestly, I was doing cartwheels, backflips. Like I was through the moon. And you know, when I saw Simone at the Olympics go through what she went through, it's so wild to see because it shows you

that mental health can creep up at any given time. No matter if it's the Olympics or your birthday, right? It doesn't matter. It can pop up. And unless you're taking care of it, it's just gonna keep coming up. So for me, to be able to see these two things happen, I think it's gonna change the mental health world

even more than it already has. And it'll welcome more people to stand up and talk and share their stories. And again, that's how I think we're gonna get through this. Communicating, talking about our struggles. Yeah, they're real. That's what makes us us, right? Let's help each other because there are millions

of people who are struggling, and we know that. Again, we've seen that during the pandemic, right? It's something we touched on. When you're commentating during the Olympics and the Sabone Biles situation's happening, are you thinking to yourself like, gosh, I wish I could reach out to her and see if there's anything I can encourage her to do to get back out there? Are you thinking hopefully she doesn't go back out there? She's the only one that can make that decision, right?

You know, she's the only one that's feeling everything that she's going through. So for me, like I just, for me being there, I sent her a message. I'm just said, I'm here if I can ever help. And she knew I was there. The athletes knew I was there. So she did her own thing. And that's fine. Like I wanted to just show her support as much as I could

because it's not easy going through that moment while you're carrying so much extra weight. But, you know, for me, being able to just watch her, she was able to be herself through that Olympics. And I think that's something that was so special. She was there to be there with her teammates. And I'm sure once she came back, I'm sure she got the help that she needed.

What are other ways that you feel like your life has changed since making mental health such a big focus, as part of your platform, it's part of your brand? I mean, ever since I opened up and started talking about it in 14, like that's just been the normal, right? Like everything, like this is just my everyday life. And you've been a happier person? 100%.

You know, like I feel like I'm carrying less. Like, again, like you'll always hear me talking about that, like taking weights out of my backpack and feeling like my shoulders are higher. Like I feel like that when I walk around. And for me, I never want to go back. I never ever want to feel that feeling of, of the gorilla walking around in your back everywhere you go.

And 2016 was a great performance for you. I wanted to break one more world record, but look, I mean, to be as close as I was and to be able to climb the mountain again like I did and finish on my terms, there was nothing that I could be disappointed about. My family is there in the stands. I was able to hang my suit up exactly how I planned, exactly how I wanted, and that was it.

And did you ever second guess 2020, think to yourself maybe? Um, no. You said, um. After 16, no, there's no way. I mean, the only, I mean, I guess if there, if it was in the U.S. that next year, then yeah, I probably would have stuck, would have stuck around for one more Olympics. Like, that's one thing that I always wanted to do. I never got to compete on my own soil for a major international competition.

So, L.A. I'll be too old, guys. I'll be like 50 at that point. I won't be that old. But so it doesn't seem like your motivation. to get back in the pool from a competitive standpoint. There's nothing I want to do competitively that will make me get back into the pool. Like, there's no record, there's no metal that's going to entice me. As someone who set goals your whole life, you know, especially in your swimming career,

how do you think about goal setting today and is that a piece of your life today? Is it not? I mean, I approach it the same way, but I'm learning that it's different now than what it was then, right? Like, at that point, I was trying to figure out how to break 50 and 100 fly. So now it's just kind of trying to have the perfect balance, right? Like trying to figure out what I'm doing professionally, trying to take care of myself, but also take care of my family. So how do I manage that in a day-to-day setting?

So I have little goals and little benchmarks that I still have and want to hit, but I don't think I've perfected it the right way yet. You know, when Bob and I first started goal setting, we started way back in, gosh, I was probably 11, 12 years old. you know, being able to perfect it throughout my career over 20 years. Shifting and trying to approach it in a different way, it's challenging and a lot more challenging than I thought it would be. But it's kind of fun to be able to think in the future for your kids

and what you want for them, what I want for my wife and I, what I want for business, what I want in all of these different ways. So I'm still working in that quad form, but it's just not in times. You still have these little four-year... Yeah, benchmarks that I want to make and hit. For the ultimate goal, I mean, what is the ultimate goal? Look, one of the things that I really want to do is I want to lower the suicide rate. That number scares me and it crushes me.

Again, I know what it feels like to not want to be alive. And I want to be able to help as many people as I can to get through that, to get through to the other side because there are so many things and so many different roads that we can travel. You know, water safety is something that's so big. I mean, those are just two small things. Well, reducing the suicide rates, no small thing. So how do you start going about taking one big, scary number and attacking it?

I mean, you have to take so many steps backwards, right? Like, how do you get to that point? So for me, it's like, how did I get to that point? That was a bunch of different things that led me to spiral. And then I guilted myself, I shamed myself for the behavior that I had, and I didn't want to be alive. So how can we help people, or how can I help people to get from that point to a different point? I don't know, but, you know, I can, that's one thing that I'd like to try and do, like, figure out how to, how I can just give somebody an extra step to potentially save their life.

Well, I think even you just talking about it the way you are today. Me being me, I want more, though. That's the thing. You know, like, me being me, like, what else can I do? How much farther can I take this? You know, like, where else can we go? That's always me, right? From what we're saying earlier. Let's do a couple rapid fire questions here. I'm never good with rapid fire. Go ahead. I don't think anyone is. All right. In the past, Bob would send you inspirational quotes on a daily basis. Is there one that really stands out to you or one that, you know, kind of still plays in

the back of your mind? Actions speak louder than words. That's it. Anybody can talk. Anybody can do this, right? Like, if you're showing that you want to be better, then everything else will just follow. I always thought about what can I control in an everyday situation and just be really good at controlling that. Well, your whole concept of preparation, controlling the controllables, like, those are really powerful themes in your success.

I think that's the reason that we were able to have as much success as we did, because every little small detail was, or we paid attention to every small detail that you could possibly imagine. I'm curious, when you were in the pool swimming for something, how much were you thinking about the exact thing that you were doing? Zero. Versus... Just letting it go. Like spacing out. Yeah, I just let it rip. And what would you be thinking about?

It could be anything? Nothing. Empty. Zero. It's like you're in the matrix. It's like time slows down. It's crazy. It's hard to put it into words exactly what it's like, but you feel your senses are heightened.

It's wild. And that's both in training and in a race? Only in races. Only in races. In training, it's, you can't get your hand out of the water. I mean, like your shoulders are so tired. Your body is so tired. So it's just, it's mind over matter.

What can you push yourself through? through. I'm not going to injure my body by pushing myself in certain ways, right? I have my trainer sitting there. We have everything that we need. So, yeah, it's mind over matter. How can you get through a situation right then and there? You're in a rarefied air of athletes from an accomplishment standpoint. You know, on the individual side, there's Tiger Woods, there's Federer, there's Nadal, Djokovic, team sport athletes. You know, you're compared with Jordan. you're compared with Gretzky, Tom Brady. Are these individuals that you've ever reached out to to talk about that sort of

life that you guys are living or the place that you're in in other people's minds? I mean, I don't think it's been like a topic of conversation when I've been around those guys. But, you know, I think just being able to be around someone like that, I mean, for me, like, I just feel comfortable. I feel normal because we just understand the preparation and what it takes to be, to get Gone to a place. So, you know, the times that I've been able to be with some of those people you just named, it's been epic since chills at my body.

You know, being around greatness like that, it's not something you get to do every single day. So, you know, looking up to Jordan, that was my guy. That was the reason why I did what I did. I wanted to change a sport of swimming because of him. He changed sport of basketball and how people look at it. And, you know, having the chance to meet him and be around him a little bit. Those are moments I'll never forget. Pretty cool, man.

If you think about being competitive, which obviously you are. Yeah, very. Too competitive. How do you channel that today? I mean, even a guy like Jordan, who is, you know, I think he's famously quoted, he didn't have a gambling problem. He's a competition problem. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I mean, I'm competitive in absolutely everything I do. You know, I lift three days a week, so how can I get stronger every single week, right? Little small improvements. I play golf. Well, I try to play golf, so. Handicap? 8.6. That would be intimidating.

giving you shots on a golf course. No, it wasn't. I never used my strokes accordingly. It's so bad. It's so frustrating. Do you want your kids to grow up to be little Michael Phelpses? If they want to swim,

okay, I will never, ever, ever force them to swim. I don't want them to have to go through dealing with living in my footsteps, right? Like, it's not fair for a kid. They should be able to be themselves, and that's it. I mean, to be honest, I'd rather them be a golfer. Be good at other sports.

I'd rather have Boomer be on the leaderboard of the Masters one year or something. And he actually likes golf. Like, he loves golf. We have him in, or we were going to try to get him in a few sports. He takes golf lessons now. And he was like, no, I only want to play golf. So we're like baseball, soccer, all these. No, golf, golf, golf.

So. How old is he? Five. Okay. There you go. He's starting earlier than dad. What's something that you're doing today that you never expected? Golfing.

Golfing is a fairly traditional trajectory. It's the hardest thing. I mean, it's the most hard. humbling thing I've ever done on this planet. Honestly, like the ball is not moving. Yeah, I would say that are probably cooking. I do a lot of cooking. I make almost every breakfast and every dinner.

So for me, it's, honestly, it's calming. The boys will come in and help sometimes. Sometimes it's nerve-wracking. If you're chopping up a bunch of different things, it can be scary with all the knives in there. But it's always fun to have them in and helping or telling jokes or making me laugh. are making me laugh. Your favorite recovery techniques. So, you know, you think about cold bath,

you think about cupping. Graston, cupping, and cold tub. I'm in the process of putting a cold tub at my house. So when that happens, it'll be every day. Every single morning when I wake up, I jump in a cold shower. And by the way, it makes you naturally happy. Yes. Talk about things to boost. You're happy. I might not be that happy when I get in the cold shower. No one is. After the fact, it's so good. But Graston, I don't do that much anymore. I have to my trainer here. My trainer's coming down this weekend, so he's going to crush me with some of that now. So Graston is, they're kind of like crowbars. You just, for those of you don't know, they dig and it. It's painful. It's not. There are a lot of expletives that come out of my mouth

during that. I absolutely love it. I have IT band shoulders and right. Let me relax. And it's just, it's black and blue. Literally black and blue tomorrow. Well, during the Olympics at times, you'd have cupping marks, right? I still get cupped once or twice a week. So I do acupuncture twice a week and cupping twice a week. Yeah, just to give my body a little recovery. I want my body to feel good, right?

And I want to feel ready when I ask my body to do something. Are you someone who stretches a lot? You have to. You have to. Before and after a workout, yes. I roll out. So I like rolling out with a lacrosse ball. That's something it's very painful, but it's been just something simple

that I've done my whole life, my whole career, and then definitely afterwards. We have a reformer also in our garage, so we have all the bells and whistles and recovery is important for me. I never want injuries. Well, it's core to the whoop culture as well, so I appreciate you talking about it. If you think about whoop data, is there a specific goal you have on your whoop that you're trying to improve? No, I mean, I just like challenging myself. Honestly, like the sleep that I get every night is based off of what I do throughout the day and all of that, right? Like, it's, if I'm setting myself up to have a good night's sleep, I'm going to have a good night's sleep. If I'm doing everything that's not going to allow me to have a good night's sleep, then it's not going to happen.

You know, for me, it's just, I like being able to push myself every day. So I try to get the highest strain. I really do. Like, I try to do everything I possibly can to ram it through the roof. I try to burn as many calories as I possibly can. I mean, it's a competition. We have two different groups, and we just compete against one another. So yeah, I don't know.

How can I challenge myself? How can I be better? I'd like to have my recovery stay in the green for an extended period of time. You know, again, I don't like seeing one, five, 10%. How'd you get a 1%? No sleep and a long day. It was probably, I think we played,

we didn't play 36, it was close to, maybe we played 27 holes or outside. I think I slept for like three and a half hours, dehydrated, and I don't think I ate enough. So a combination of everything and I woke up and saw one and I was like, oh great. It's going to be a fantastic day. Describe what your diet looked like, you know, during peak training. Like in a given day, what would you eat? Whatever you want. Like I could literally eat anything I wanted for 20 years. Like pizza, whole pizza, pint of ice cream, doesn't matter. Candy, all this, that. I ate things that I needed to to get the right fuel.

but I also had to eat enough to make sure that I was maintaining a weight. I can't lose five or ten pounds in a week because I'm losing all my muscle mass, right? So being able to main, so my racing weight was 195, 200. That's about what I am now, but like I could lose five or ten in a week. So it was a full-time job. So that's what I'm saying. Like I needed to eat anything and everything because I was never eating enough. When we're swimming 100,000 meters or yards a week.

that's crazy like it's yeah it's non-stop did you have favorite meals before a race or it also didn't matter that much didn't matter didn't matter and now i really don't enjoy eating really yeah because it was a full-time job but you like cooking i do um like i i eat what i need and what my body wants but i'm not like i'm not indulging in stuff here and there like i never do that anymore and and i think probably part of it is is because i was shuffling food into my mouth and honestly like Bob, Keenan, my coach and my trainer, like, here, here's a bar, here's a peanut butter and jelly, yeah, have this, have this, and you're like, after a while, your head feels like it's going to explode. So, yeah, it's kind of nice being able to pick and choose what I want now.

Tell me, in our audience, a little bit about the Michael Phelps Foundation. The Michael Phelps Foundation, it started out as a learn-to-swim. Like, that was, you know, me, that's how I got into the sport. And drowning for children under the age of 14 is a and highest cause of death. Wow, that's a statistic I didn't know. Behind car crashes. Wow, isn't that high? So for me, I wanted to change that, right?

That's how we started, my sisters and I started our careers was a learn to swim. We've now evolved and we've added a mental health component. So the eight basic emotions. For me, I was in treatment and I would see these eight basic emotions on the wall and you'd have to say what you're feeling and why. You know, point to it, say what you're feeling, why are you feeling that way? And once you're able to understand and see where that's coming from, you're able to experience and learn so much more.

So for me, I wanted to try it with kids because if they can talk about the emotions and where they're coming from, they're able to resolve more problems, right, and overcome fears or obstacles. So that's been something that's been really cool that we implemented. We're in every single state, partnered with Boys and Girls Club and Special Olympics worldwide, taught over 30,000 kids to be water safe. It's good. But again, I want more.

I'm not done until I feel like we've really made an impact and I feel like we're just getting started. We just hit 10 years and yeah, it's been incredible. It's been a really fun journey. If people want to learn more about the foundation or contribute or anything, where do they do that? Michael PhelpsFundation.org, it's been a treat to be able to see the excitement on a kid's face when they overcome an obstacle. Not every kid passes Lauren to swim the first time but they don't give up

they go back a second or third time and when they're able to overcome that obstacle it's so incredible to see how much it trickles down they're better in school they're more focused goal oriented like everything they're just a different outlook

so being able to overcome a fear and an obstacle I think is always very challenging and especially as a kid so if we can teach them to the tools to help them through that process, they can overcome anything. And their opportunities are endless. And they can literally achieve

any single goal, dream that's out there. And that's all I want. Because for me as a kid growing up, I was a kid that wasn't afraid to dream. And look where it got me. Right? Like, don't be afraid to dream. Don't be afraid to push your boundaries.

Give yourself a chance. Well, Michael, this has been really fun, man. And, you know, I appreciate you and just everything that you've done for the sport of swimming, but I think also just inspiring millions of people to dream. And by the way, it's so cool that you're on Whoop and have been for a long time, you know,

for all of us building this technology day in and day out and have our own dreams of what the technology can do, it makes a big difference having people like you use it and talk about it. So I appreciate that. Sure. Thanks for having me. Thanks to Michael for coming on the Whoop podcast. You can learn more about the Michael Phelps Foundation

at Michael Phelps Foundation. You can also learn more about whoop at whoop.com. You can follow us on social media at Woop at Will Ahmed. A reminder, you can get 15% off a WOOP membership if you use the code Will. That's W-I-L-L. And with that, folks, stay healthy and stay in the green. Thank you.