WHOOP Podcast - NFL legend Larry Fitzgerald details his journey from ballboy to all-time great

Episode Date: December 8, 2021

Larry Fitzgerald is one of the greatest football players of all-time – and his journey truly started at the bottom. He was a ballboy for the Minnesota Vikings when he was a teenager before spending 17 seasons in the NFL with the Arizona Cardinals, where he finished second all-time in league history in catches and receiving yards. Larry explains why his drive to be great in football extends to every other aspect of his life. He discusses what it was like to learn from the pros as a kid (4:05), how military academy gave him the structure to succeed (7:34), overcoming doubt in college (13:24), his relationship with his father and how he thinks about parenting his kids (16:30), the high performance mindset (19:51), advice to live by from his grandmother (23:59), losing his mom to breast cancer and how he goes about honoring her (28:48), taking care of your body (31:26), success over the long haul (32:23), discovering WHOOP (35:49), how WHOOP helped him with sleep apnea (36:20), the importance of sleep and health in every day life (41:23), and how an internship he did in the height of his football career changed his life (45:32).Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

what's up folks welcome back to the whoop podcast where we sit down with top athletes scientists experts and more to learn what the best in the world are doing to perform at their peak and what you can do to unlock your best performance that's right i am will omit founder and CEO of whoop and we are on a mission to unlock human performance we got a phenomenal guest this week NFL legend and pal larry fitzgerald that's right larry is one of the greatest football players of all time. Also one of the nicest football players of all time. And his journey truly started at the bottom. He was literally a ball boy for the Minnesota Vikings when he was a teenager. And we actually talk a lot about that, that phase of his life. His long career proves how critical consistency and

resiliency are. I think those are enormously important themes in Larry's life. And I would say in this podcast. And Larry explains why his drive to be great in football now really extends to every other aspect of his life. We discuss his upbringing and how his parents shaped who he is today, how he approaches being a parent himself and the values he tries to instill in his children. His legendary career, so literally number two all-time catches in the NFL right behind Jerry Rice. We talk about how he used his Woop and actually how Woop helped him realize he was dealing with sleep apnea, which actually makes Larry's story that much more amazing, that he had this amazing, amazing career with sleep apnea. And why?

did an internship at J.P. Morgan at the height of his football career. One of my favorite things about some of the world's greatest is their willingness to walk back down the mountain when they want to find a new way to the top, especially in a new career path. And Larry did that with finance and business. So it's a really interesting story that we touch on. Okay. Reminder, you can get 15% off at membership. If you use the code will, that's WI-L-L. Without But further ado, here is the great Larry Fitzgerald. Larry, welcome to the Wooke podcast. Will, so great to be with you, man.

I really appreciate the honor. I know I had to fight and hustle on scratch to get my way on this podcast. But I'm glad to be with you, brother. Well, we're lucky to have you. 17 seasons in the NFL, second all time in catches. Does that kind of wash over you at this point? Is it still a pinch me moment? Is it all inevitable?

No, I definitely wasn't inevitable. It was a long road. A lot of, you know, people that were really supportive, coaches, administration, the teammates, being able to have an owner that, you know, wanted to keep me in Arizona for that long. You know, there's a lot of things that, you know, worked out, you know, you know, to be able to have that type of success in a team setting, it takes a lot of people along the way to be able to help facilitate that.

So, you know, I'm very thankful for relationships that I've been able to grow. you know, be a part of. It's been a great journey. So your dad, Larry Fitzgerald, Sr., long-time sports writer columnist in Minnesota, you actually grew up as the ball boy for the Minnesota Vikings. Is that right? That is correct. I worked as a ball boy for like five or six years and through some really, really good times, you know, like through the 98 season when they went 15 and 1 and lost an NFC championship game. And being able to see Randy Moss's rookie year, come out to Gates with 1,300 yards and 18 touchdowns, just groundbreaking, earth-shattering performances.

There was some unbelievable moments, unbelievable times to be experienced great players at their pinus. I don't feel like this story gets told enough, but you're like the ball boy for Randy Moss, and then, of course, you're going to go on and have this unbelievable career as a wide receiver. How old were you when you were being a ball boy? I started at like 12 years old and went on at 12, 16 or 17, before I went to. to prep school at Valley Ford Military Academy.

So I think I started in 97, the 98 was Randy's first year. And, you know, I have to attribute a lot of my success to be able to watch those guys perform. You know, so most people, you only get a chance to really watch professionals. You know, you see Roy McElroy when he's, you know, teeing off, right, at Brookline. He's playing in the open. You don't get a chance to see him in the hours and hours and hours of work that he spends on working and perfecting his craft. You know, you only see the 60s that he posts, you know, during his round. You don't see all the grind that goes behind it.

And, you know, I got a chance to see all of that work that was behind the scenes that everybody gets, you get to, you know, marvel at the performances on Sundays. But I got to see Monday to Saturday. And that's really what separated guys like him and Chris Carter and John Rand and other Hall of Famers that I was able to watch. So you're seeing this work ethic of the best athletes in the NFL. And they're obviously having enormous success, too. So that at least showed you that success.

assessing the NFL is possible. At what stage between the ages of 12 and, say, 17, are you thinking to yourself, hey, I'm going to be on this field one day? Well, I don't know if I really had that thought about being on the field. You know, it's always a dream, right? You know, you see something that you can actually touch and feel. I mean, it's not a reality, but you feel like it's attainable if you continue to work at the same process that those guys are working at. And, you know, it was something I always hoped for and I was willing to work for. And I think it has made it a little bit more tangible for me that I could actually pick up the phone and call those guys.

I could talk to them. I can actually physically touch them. It made it that much more real for me. And I think it definitely was a great inspiration. Were there any conversations that stood out for you, you know, as a ballboy at that time frame with those athletes? Oh, yeah, a bunch of them. I mean, Chris Carter went as far as to allow me to come live with them in the summertime

and train with them. I was in high school. I got a chance to train with one of the greatest wide receivers in the history of the game. You know, Hollis-man performer. I would stay in his house. His wife would mail, a meal will cook meals for us and we would, you know, I'll hang out with the kids. I mean, you really, you know, this accept me as one of his own and it meant a lot to me. And I really opened my eyes to this, you know, giving back to the game. I remember him telling me when I was younger. He said, make sure when you leave the game, the game is in a better place than when you got into it. And that was part of, you know, his

way of giving back. And, you know, it's always great to be able to look at the next generation of players and, and see this how dominant and, you know, how they're carrying the torch now for this generation is a lot of fun to watch. So as a high school wide receiver, what was standing out probably to a Chris Carter or Randy Moss saying, hey, this, you know, this young guy, Larry's got a lot of potential. Was it obvious then that you could catch anything? Was it obvious then that you were going to have breakout speed? If you scout your high school stuff, What do you remember? You know, I wasn't all that refined.

You know, I was big and I was fast, but I grew up in Minnesota and I played in, you know, three eight football. You know, I went to a school that had like 600 kids. It wasn't like a massive school where I was playing against the very best, largest teams in the state. I think that the relationship that I had with them, my dad being a journalist and me being so close to the team being a ballboy, kind of like, you know, made them, you know, want to go out and support me a little bit.

You know, if I wasn't a ballboy, you know, I probably would. would never have that opportunity to have the relationships and get the guidance and counsel that I did. So I think there was just some great synergies there that aligned perfectly for me. You go to Military Academy. What was that experience like? It was the toughest year and a half that I've had, you know, moving away from home, you know, for the first time, you know, not really wanting to do it. And, you know, going to a military environment was very difficult for me to deal with, you know, waking up at five o'clock at the morning and, you know, having people telling you what to do and it's the structure. I just wasn't accustomed to it. But it was one of those things

that, you know, really helped shape the course of my life moving forward. There's no way I would be sitting here on this podcast with you had I not taken that route. Gave me some great disciplines, wonderful leadership. You know, when you get there, you know, you go through this plea system for like, you know, six weeks until you're able to recite, you know, a full capsule of book that they give you that you had to be able to recite from cover to cover. And once you do that, you're kind of accepted into the general, you know, population. And, you know, you're able to kind of have all the same benefits and privileges that

everybody else was having. But it was great to be able to have that and be able to push myself through, be able to really work on my study habits and a lot of other things that I was lacking. And, you know, when I got to college, I was able to really be able to hit the ground running, you know, made honor roll and was able to be a freshman all American. All those things would not have been possible without. the time at the military school. Well, one underrated thing, I think, from a fan perspective for a great NFL receiver

is play memorization and route running. And I wonder how much of that, you know, discipline for, you know, your studies came from, from military academy. I think a lot of it came from the military academy. You know, every night from after dinner from 7 to 9 o'clock every night was a mandatory study hall. I mean, where you literally could not get out of your desk instead of you were going to the bathroom, but you had to get from.

mission to be able to do. And, you know, they had tutors that would come around and help you if you had struggles with any, with any, you know, area in the classroom. And so, like, there was no excuse for you not to be a great student and be able to really excel. And, you know, they made it very accommodating for me. And so I definitely would attribute a lot of that, you know, the pattern recognition, to be able to memorize the plays and then also just having the discipline, you know, when everybody else was out partying and having a good time, you know, I was in my room, you know, just kind of going over my plays and doing things that I felt like was necessary for me to be dominant. I imagine that's one thing you could observe from being around the Vikings at such a young age

is just the sacrifice that goes along with being a professional athlete. You know, you have to have a singular focus to be able to perform at that level. Talk a little bit about, you know, sacrifice and discipline. Well, you know, the thing I really recognize, honestly, talking about sacrificing discipline is, like, the range that, like, Chris Carter, head. You know, he was, you know, a great father, good husband, great football player, good teammate, successful businessman. Like, he had a lot of different verticals and I really respected that he could, you know, when he was doing one thing, he was the very best at that,

but soon as he transitioned to something else, he was really good at that. And so I learned that you could be, you could be versatile. You could be well-rounded in the things that you were interested in, things that you enjoyed. And, you know, if you put the time and respected the process that you could master, you know, many different things. Yeah, it's amazing just listening to you how well-rounded you have as a perspective. And we'll come to some, we'll get to some of your your business interests and everything else that you're doing. I want to go now to the University of Pittsburgh. So what was it like showing up there? And now you're all of a sudden in a high-profile football environment. Well, my journey to Pittsburgh was really unique, actually,

because they weren't recruiting me when I went there initially. You know, my offensive coordinator, God rest of his soul, coach, Coach Cole. He drove me and a couple of my teammates to a couple of schools. So we drove down to Champaign to visit University of Illinois. We drove to South Bend to visit Notre Dame. We drove to East Lafayette to visit Purdue. We drove down to Madison to visit Wisconsin. We drove to Columbus to visit Ohio State.

And we've been going up to Happy Valley to visit Penn State. And I had to offer from those schools, you know, before I went there and, you know, unfortunately, the Turnpike in Pittsburgh headed towards Happy Valley was shut down because of a really bad torrential rainstorm. And so we ended up staying in Pittsburgh. And my coach was like, hey, we're here in Pittsburgh. They've had some unbelievable talent that's come through here. Curtis Martin, Tony Dors said, Dan Marino and the list goes on and on.

And I was like, man, it's been terrible for years. Why would I want to go visit there? He said, we're here. We might as go by. We went by. I met the staff. We just really hit it off in the recruiting process that started there. They really love, they really like me. I like them. You know, there was a lot of common

connections that we shared. And, you know, it was just a, it was just a crazy coincidence and very, very fortunate to God, you know, directed my path there. It's funny, you know, the serendipity a little bit that amazing careers have and, and yours is no different. But, you know, you even said, you know, why would I go to Pittsburgh? Should I even show up? And I feel like such a, such an important part of life is just showing up. seeing what happens. And, you know, you had a good attitude and you said, all right, I'll go check it out. Yeah. Yeah, I was, I was very fortunate. You know, I couldn't get into Harvard, you know, so I went to, you know, to Harvard. I went to, I went to the Harvard of Pennsylvania University of

Pittsburgh. Well, Harvard isn't the best feeder for the Heisman. So. But it seems to be a great feeder for some other things, though. That's all right. Yeah. So how quickly within your, your Pittsburgh career are you saying to yourself, okay, this is my career now. You know, I'm realizing I am going to go the distance and I'm going to become a professional football player. Well, actually, the transition initially was pretty tough. You know, like I said before, I went to a really small high school. I didn't compete against a lot of great athletes. And so when I got to college, I was, I was struggling a little bit the first few days, you know, just the physicality, the speed, you know, all of these things. And I just really

wasn't accustomed to it. I remember calling my dad like the second day. And I was like, that, you know, I don't know if I'm cut out for this. And he just hung up on me. So I guess his message to me was, you know, you better, you better figure it out, you know, very get it together. And, you know, I started getting my confidence or getting my legs under me. And I started making plays. And, you know, it just really started to improve and increase from that point on. And, you know, I just, I love the process of getting better. I love the process of, you know, putting the work in and seeing the results kind of, you know, just slowly start to materialized. I really enjoy that. And, you know, I just started thriving after that. I got my

mindset together. You mentioned your father, and I can't help but think about his perspective on all this as a long-time sports writer. And it sounds like he was a little tough on you in those early days in college saying, hey, you got to keep pushing. A little. What kind of an influence? Yeah, okay, a lot. What kind of an influence did he have on you and in your journey, especially at Pittsburgh? Well, my dad had an unbelievable influence. I mean, he, he, He, you know, every door from an athletic standpoint that I wanted to go through, you know, he, he really opened it for me. He was unbelievable in terms of his leadership, you know, how he treated my mother, how we emphasize, you know, being a respectful man, you know, shaking a guy's hand firm and look at him in the eye, you know, just all the great, I think disciplines that, you know, young boy should be able to learn, you know, he taught me and, you know, he was really hard on us. He never, it wasn't like the huggy, you know, lovey type father, you know, but you could tell and know that he loved you by the way he treated you in the things that he provided and the doors that he opened for you.

And so I was always very thankful of those lessons and the hard love that he gave my brother and I. And, you know, it's something I truly, truly appreciate and very thankful for. It's an amazing attitude that you have towards. I mean, it's easy to look back on that hard love as being a, you know, a guide to your success. sometimes when you're in the middle of it, it can be kind of hard to absorb. It sounds like you, you were able to just kind of roll with it. You know, if he hangs up on you, you kind of get the message and you go back to work. Yeah, I mean, it was, you know, I did some silly things and, you know,

press his buttons a couple of times when I was young. And, you know, I paid for it, you know, but, you know, I wouldn't have wanted any other way. You know, I wouldn't have wanted it easy and everything kind of handed to me. me that that's just not how I probably would have, you know, best been able to receive my blessings. And so, like, I'm, it wasn't conventional. It wasn't for everybody. But, you know, now today, you know, I'm able to work my way through issues.

I see obstacles and I find ways, as opposed to finding excuses, I find different reasons to be able to overcome those obstacles and those things that he always did. And, you know, he would do things intentionally to kind of like, you know, make it more difficult, right? But now, you know, when I did with my son, my oldest son 13, you know, he asked me for something. And I say, Devin, you know, you need to be able to do this thing. You need to be able to do these things on your own. You know, you want to, you want to haircut where you need to reach out to the barber, see what time you can get in, like all of these little small things, you know, just washing your clothes and making your bed and all these things

that when you're 12, 13, 14, 15 years old, you think, you know, these are just a given that my mom and dad will always do these things for me. But in actuality, and these are things that you're going to have to do on your own and you're going to be able to do them, you know, efficiently and effectively and early you're able to get those lessons taught, I think, the better you are because, you know, there are no handouts in life. Nobody gave you anything. You know, you had, you built this company, you know, through just hard work and dedication, perseverance, people telling you you can't do that.

I don't like this idea. Why is it not a, why is there not a watch associated with, you know, all of these things that you have to overcome, you know, you fight, you fight through. And you learn a lot about yourself when you're fighting. and do these adversities. It's so true. And you also grow to really appreciate the struggle. You go to appreciate the obstacle.

You look at it as an opportunity. And it's a hard, it's hard to learn that by reading about it. You have to realize that the obstacle is the way from your own experience. Like once you find a way to be able to get through that struggle, there's always another obstacle in the road. I mean, I remember, you know, getting to the National Football League and how happy I was on draft night. And my dad told me, he's like, this was not the goal to get drafted. You know, the goal is to be a Hall of Famer and a Super Bowl champion one day. And they, like, really, really, like, just put it in perspective.

Like, all it is is an opportunity to come in the league. Like, it doesn't guarantee anything else but an opportunity. And, you know, I would imagine it's the same things you were dealing when you were scaling. You know, you have five employees, you know, now 20 employees. And now you're at 500 employees. And, you know, trying to make sure that the culture stays the same as it was when you were 10 people. it's difficult when you start scaling to 500 and in a year you're at 2,500. You know, it's like so the challenges never stop coming, but how you deal with each challenge,

I think helps you understand and navigate through the next challenges. Totally. And, you know, the idea that your parents at a young age teach you to move the goalposts for what you define as success, I think is a, I think that's a common trait for successful people that I've met and you know you just described it on draft night here you are third overall draft pick you were the runner up for the heisman there's kind of a lot to celebrate in that moment and yet you know your father's saying no you got to be a hall of famer and that that can that can be depressing too you have to learn how to wrestle with that kind of feedback loop but it it can be

deeply motivating if you find the right ways to to channel it I mean I I can't tell you the number of times my dad's pulled that trick on me where, you know, I call him up and I say, oh, yeah, we just, you know, signed this term sheet. You're going to be worth the, you know, X billion dollars, you know, and then, you know, three days later, he'll call me up, but you guys worth, you know, five billion now? What's the valuation? I forget. I'm like, Jesus. You know, and then, you know, of course, at this point, it's in my mind without him and without parents, but it's a fascinating feedback loop. And I mean, if you look around throughout the course of history and the really high level of cheerers, they usually have that type of mindset.

No matter what I accomplished, what I did, I could have, you know, 200 yards in the game and three touchdowns and when all I would do on the next day and Monday, I would go into film and all I would see is bad things that I did. At the time, I didn't get my depth or the catch that I didn't make. It wouldn't matter how good I did it. And, you know, you listen to like Michael Jordan on his documentary last dance and, you know, you look at Tom Brady. I mean, the guys accomplished everything that anybody could ever accomplish. There's people that are just intrinsically motivated to be wired to go be the very best.

And it's so fun to watch it when you see it in the process. I completely agree with you. So let's talk about that transition into the NFL. You're drafted by the Cardinals, obviously. It was a big draft, too. I mean, Eli Manning, first overall, there was Ben Rothesbringer, Philip Rivers, you know, a bunch of really talented players in that draft. You go to the Cardinals.

What's that first season like? Well, it was tough. It was, you know, you get drafted that high. Usually that means that your team is not any good. So, you know, just trying to come in. And there was a lot of pressure on me because the person that gave me my first job as a, as a ballboy from Mr. Vikes, was now my head coach. He drafted me.

He was like an uncle to me. And so, like, I just felt this unbelievable weight on my shoulders to be able to try to lift this franchise to be, you know, different than what they had been. perceived. And I look at it now, you know, 18 years later, you know, the front, you know, there's on the Cardinals, the number one ranked team and on the power rankings, you know, and I see it across the ticket. And this makes me so proud, man, to know that, you know, I was able to be a part of that journey to being a part of an organization that really was not respected. It was like, you know, the armpit of the National Football League, you know,

people looked at you as a team that they can go get healthy against, you know, and you go into the stadium and everybody else's fans were in the stadium. And now you go to a home game And it's nothing but red and passionate fans, you know, that are, you know, just in love with the organization, love with the team. And so, you know, being able to kind of go through that transition, you know, was a lot of fun. But, you know, it was a lot of tough times, you know, early on, especially the first three years. And then, you know, in 2008, we were able to make a great run, you know, be able to get to the Super Bowl and compete. Obviously, we felt a little short. But, you know, to be able to see in such a short period of time that we were able to get to that point.

And then it was back down, you know, for a few years. years. And then Coach Ariens came in and, you know, really kind of took us back to some really, really good years. And so it was a lot of fun, man. The trials and tribulations of professional sports, you know, definitely are unique. And they're, you know, they're fun to be a part of. You mentioned your Super Bowl appearance. Two thousand eight playoff performance ranks among, I think, the greatest individual playoff performances in NFL history. In four postseason games, you had 30 passes, 546 yards, seven touchdown. In the Super Bowl, you caught that, you know, must have been a 60-yard touchdown pass with two

minutes left in the game. For that period of time, you know, I mean, obviously you're at the peak of your powers. You're playing it phenomenally well as an athlete. What was keeping you motivated? What was keeping you grounded? Well, I mean, I never needed anything to keep me grounded. You know, I've always confined ways to motivate myself and, you know, just look no further than Jerry Rice, right? You know, he's the greatest football player to play the game. It's wide receiver position. And, you know, he set the blueprint. And I was always, you know, in heavy pursuit of him. You know, you know, you never can catch them. But, you know, it's always nice to be able to have that goal out in front of you, right? And in terms of just, you know, always having the desire to improve, you know, not only just on the football field, but in my business acumen, to be a better father, to be a better brother, to be a better community citizen. all of those things were something that were important to me. And, you know, I always wanted to be a great football player, but I never wanted to make the sacrifice of allowing any of those other categories

and any of those other verticals that slipped, you know, for me to be able to chase my dream. So my grandma used to always tell us, you know, we were young. He said, if you don't stay humble, you will stumble. Like, and it always used to, like, stick in my mind. From a process standpoint, I mean, you're obviously someone who's obsessed with the process of being great. how did that process evolve, you know, from being a high school kid to college kid to being a professional athlete? I mean, 17 years in the pros, I imagine your process evolved. What are some things that you really honed in on? I think I learned early was being able to learn from

my peers, you know, so I enjoyed watching Mark Harrison play, and I enjoy watching Brandon Marshall play, and I enjoy watching a lot of different other guys, and I would watch them intently, you know, in Calvin Johnson's of the world to steal Andre Johnson, stealing things that I saw from them. Wow, I love the way Andre was this route, the footwork he used on this release, something I need to work on. And I would put that in my tool bag for things I wanted to work on in the summer and offseason, OTAs and mini camps. And so I would take things from other guys' games that I really, really liked, it felt like it would make me even a more complete player. I think, you know, always having a respect for your peers, seeing the things that they do well.

and I think it's okay to have that type of competition, you know, it's healthy. I think it pushes you, it pushes the game. And, you know, that's, you know, kind of how I always, you know, tried to make myself better. I'm always really critical of the things that I do, you know, because, you know, I feel like you have to be your hardest critic personally. How did you deal with doubt? You know, one thing that's interesting about your position is it is somewhat reliant on having a good quarterback to throw you the ball. And over the course of your career, I think you'd say you've had great quarterbacks and probably less great quarterbacks. Had you overcome doubt maybe when you're wondering to yourself, hey, is this guy going to get me the ball in the right spot?

You know, you still need to execute on your job to give him a chance. But, you know, you also wonder if the guy's not going to be able to deliver it, that could jeopardize the way you do your job. Well, yeah, I mean, you do take all that into consideration, but I never allow it to let, you know, be crippling to me. I knew that I needed to do my job in terms of, hey, the route is a 14 yards, two yards outside of the numbers and I need to come back right down my stem. Like, that's what I was going to do. And when you turn the tape on, okay, Larry is doing this job. And, you know, there's times that you've got to make plays that are, you know,

maybe, you know, extraordinary to be able to catch a ball that's high or low or outside. I mean, that's part of the job, you know, also one thing that's always taking consideration to human element, you know, it's not like he's not trying to do the very best he can, right? He's not intentionally overthrowing me. He's not intentionally not playing to the best of his ability. And so I'm always, you know, one of those guys that always tries to help his teammates, you know, even if it's, you know, somebody that you know is not going to play a long time. You still want to do the very best to help him, you know, play at the best of his ability.

And so, like, I never got caught up in, no, so much who was throwing me the ball. And I just wanted to make sure I was being accountable. I was being reliable and I was being dependable. I love that. Eli Manning told me a great story that the famous Tyree catch that they do their Friday walkthrough and he's throwing balls to Tyree and Tyree dropped I think nine out of 11 balls. And later that day, he does a call with Peyton, you know, his brother who had played in the Super Bowl the year before and Peyton's like, hey, how was the walkthrough?

How's it going with Tyree and then other guys? He's like, it was great. Tyree was phenomenal. I really feel great about the game. And, you know, so he just sort of told himself, hey, this is going to be fine. I believe in this guy. And, you know, I think that it was such a fascinating story to me because I'm thinking to myself, if he had let any doubt come in, you know, going into that Super Bowl, who knows

what happens. And, you know, maybe that, that play never happens, right? Because you tell yourself, hey, maybe that's not, that's not the right guy to throw the ball to. And so it's a beautiful thing about team sports. And it's a beautiful thing about professional athletes like you, Larry, where you believe deeply in your teammates and you believe deeply in just doing your job. And if everyone else comes along with you, very special things can happen. Very true. I try to take that same approach.

You know, it's time you put your arm around the teammate. That might be the moment they needed it most. They needed to be loved on showing that they appreciated, especially, you know, you being a captain and leader of your team. You know, that could be what, you know, changed the tide, you know, and that could help propel him to make the play that, you know, helps you get the victory or clinch the playoff game or, you know, get that first down that you needed to, you know, to move chains. I mean, so you never know when a positive moment like that could affect somebody in a great way. Do you remember a specific moment in your career where you were at a low and someone else, you know, did that for you and helped pick you up? Yeah, I would probably say the lowest I ever got

was my freshman year of college. I lost my mom during spring, during spring ball and, you know, contemplated not playing ball and, you know, just dropping out of school, like all of these crazy thoughts kind of went through my mind, you know, as I was going through the grieving process. And, you know, my teammates and the way they were able to support me and helped me kind of battle through those times, you know, really just gave me just so much more belief and confidence in, you know, in the family structure of a football team. And, you know, so I always remember that time and, you know, maybe somebody might not be going through, you know, losing a parent, but, you know, been with teammates going through divorces and, you know,

child custody issues and, you know, financial issues, you know, all of these things. And you really wanted this help them, you know, push through the same way they would do for you. Yeah, I read the piece you wrote about your mother Carol. And, you know, you wrote, I regret I wasn't more supportive during the most critical season of her life and her death. It's a powerful piece. I recommend people read it. But you did go on to complete that college degree from the University of Phoenix in 2016 because you made a promise to her, right? Yeah, I mean, that was very important time. I mean, I wasn't the greatest son, you know, at the end of her life, you know, being dealing with fame and success for the very first time, didn't handle it very well. Didn't handle it the way she raised me to handle it. And, you know, that's something that I live with, you know, for the rest of my life. But I definitely wanted to honor her by finishing my degree, something I told her I would do, you know, no matter, you know, what the circumstances were. And it took me a while, you know, after coming out of school in 2004, I don't think I graduated until 2015. but I would just take two or three courses every single offseason to be able to knock it out and finally able to get it done.

And more importantly for me now is to be able to talk to my sons about the importance of education and it being something that nobody can ever take from you and being at the foundation of everything good. It doesn't matter if you're an athlete or for your dentist, your doctor, you know, you're a founder of a company. I mean, education is very important. It's critical. Let's talk about 17 years from the standpoint of consistency, such an underrated. thing about what you've been able to do, what the true great professional athletes have been able to do, is just the consistency of being able to play for that long at a high level. What were some things over the years that you relied on from a process standpoint to be prepared

for games, to be, you know, able to play for that long a time in what is, you know, a brutal sport? How did you take care of your body? Well, I'm not a drinker. You know, I'm not a clever. Never really was. You know, they never use any drugs. So, I mean, I feel like my body is my temple. I always take care of it. You know, I like a little ice cream here and there, but, you know, we do it in moderation. You always have to make sure you're always aware of how your body's feeling and what you need to be doing.

So stayed on top of massage therapy, chiropractic work and acupuncture, you know, sanas, cold tubs, plunges. You know, so, like, I was really diligent in terms of how I looked after my body. And there was other huge benefit of being a play in Arizona's. I played in great environments. I practiced on natural grass every single day. And I was able to, you know, keep my muscles loose and warm, you know, as opposed to, you know, playing in New England, places like that, whereas you're dealing with the elements and it's much more difficult to practice

when it's 20 degrees outside, you know. So great benefit playing in a warm weather place to be able to have some of the longevity. And, you know, just in general, I just really, really respected admire people who are able to have, like, long-term success. You know, people, you know, they often talk about, Warren Buffett, right? And just how he's just slow grinded, you know, for 60, 70 years, right? Nothing special, no cockamamie schemes, just consistency every single year. And, you know, there's something to be, you know, valued and respected about just people who just

methodically go about their business every day. Well, and the other interesting thing about, you know, Warren Buffett is how much money he made late in life. Consistency also leaves to compounding benefits and growth. And in the financial story, that means, you know, you're making a lot of money over time later, but can you have the discipline to, you know, be consistent and be thoughtful on a daily basis growing to that, right? That compounding benefit. That compounding benefit, not just sorry to cut you off, but works even with like your children, you know, it's just totally. The driving, driving to school every day and that conversation in the car for 20 minutes about things that's bothering them or things that they really want to do and how are you going

on today, prepare to be able to get to that goal that you want to have down the road and showing up to the practices when you don't want to or you could be on some calls, you know, closing a new term sheet and you're there being consistent for them. And like those are the things that, you know, like even talking to my 13 year old, you know, he remembers that, man, dad, I remember when you came to that practice and I made that one hand kids, yeah, I remember I saw that and you did it in the game, you know, like, so like there's compounding effects to everything that you do. And in the case of being a professional athlete, a lot of the compounding benefit is that your

career lasts much longer, right? You know, you're able to play at a level that most people didn't think was possible for 10 plus seasons, right? And so I think that's, it's an amazing piece to your story. Sleep, recovery. These must be big themes in your life and especially when you were competing as an athlete. Well, I mean, thanks to you, I know exactly how much sleep and the quality of sleep that I have every single night. And that's something that, you know, early in my career, I don't think I thought too much about. You know, it wasn't something that was, you know, on the top of my thought process. But now, you know, the last few years has been something that's extremely important to me. And, you know, I used to be a guy who falls asleep on the couch, you know, watching a movie. Now, you know, I get up and get in a bed and make sure the quality of my sleep is better, you know, the pillows that I sleep. All the things that I never even gave any thought to, you know, are things that now that I think about because it's going to be able to enhance the quality of my life. And not even so much as a professional athlete, but it's a human being, right? And I think that's where, you know, people should be thinking about just how can I have a good quality life, you know, without many health issues and, you know, all the things that, you know, you see just, you know, people really struggling with, you know, with obesity issues in our country.

And, you know, there's so many problems that we have, you know, could be alleviated by just monitoring your health. Well, you mentioned measuring your sleep. When did whoop get on your radar and when did you start wearing it? A friend of mine and teammate, Kelvin Beecham, was the first one that kind of told me about it. Shout out to Kelvin. Big Kelvin, my brother right there. And he was kind of the one that put me on, put me on and kind of set me down and talked to me about it. And, you know, he's a great Woop ambassador.

I pray and hope that one day I can get on his level. And, you know, so he was kind of, he broke it down for me. He's like, this is the benefits. This is why I use it every single day, and this is why I think you should use it. And so, you know, after that, I religiously, you know, always, always have it on my wrist unless I forgot to charge it one time. And for you in measuring your sleep specifically, were there certain things that you noticed you could change about, you know, your bedtime routine or supplements that you took or the way

you eat? But what were some things that you found have helped you be a better sleeper? Well, I mean, Wolf told me I found that I had sleep at. me. You know, it's essentially, whoop is a sleep, it's a sleep study, you know, without having to go stay the night at the hospital and go through all the tests and hooked it up to everything. And I was waking up seven times a night, you know, just, you know, because of sleep at me. And now, you know, being able to get them out of peace, open up my airways to be able to sleep, breathe through my nose more consistently has really helped with the quality of my sleep.

And being able to get me in the realm, you know, more often and more frequently and higher numbers is I wake up more refreshed. and energetic and enthusiastic. And so it's been a, it's been game changers for me. Dude, that makes your career that much more insane that, you know, you're a Hall of Fame or who had sleep apnea. I mean, that's amazing, truly amazing. From a perspective of travel, jet lag, you know, a lot of folks listening to this are executives or people who are on the road a lot, you know,

in and out of different hotels. Obviously travel has been a big piece of your life. Were there certain things that you did, you know, when you hit a new time zone or a new city that you feel like helped you keep your body right? You know, one thing I did do, my, my good friend, John Merwin owns a mattress company called Brooklyn Betty. And, you know, every city that we would travel to, he would send a bed to the hotel. So the exact same bed that I sleep at home with the same pillows is what I slept in on the roads before the game. So I wanted to kind of sleep with something that's extremely important to me.

And so I wanted to be able to have that same quality and level of sleep, no matter what hotel I was at or where I was traveling throughout the course of the season. And, you know, so I was very, I was very fortunate to be able to have that. I love that. And that doesn't actually sound that common. And that's kind of a whoop mindset, if you will, of having, you know, the same exact bed everywhere you go. Is that something that other athletes did?

What kind of queued you to the idea that you should do that? Well, I was, I was sleeping so well in my own bed. You know, you go to, you know, a hotel in the road and, you know, different, different cities. And, you know, you never know what kind of mass. mattress you're going to get, right? You know, you don't, you know, if it's going to be hard or soft, you know, and I wanted to be able to have that consistency. If I wanted to have consistency on the field, why should I not be able to have consistency when I'm sleeping? The most important recovery time of the night for me. And so, John and I thought about it. He was like, yeah, no problem. You know, I'll get the same mattress to you every city. I mean, fortunately for us, like an NBA schedule work, we have 40, 40 road games, right? You know, only only have eight road games now. which made it a little bit easier in terms of logistics. You talked earlier about being a well-rounded man and, you know, the way you admired a career like Chris Carter is because of how he expanded beyond

just being known as a professional athlete. Today, you know, you've really grown, I think, as a businessman, too, and you're investing in different businesses. We're fortunate to have you an investor in Woop. You've become a friend to me. How do you think about that side of your life, the business side of your life, and, you know, where you want to invest dollars and even your time. Well, something that I always thought about.

And DaVenture I got into probably like four years ago. I met a really great guy, Nat Turner. You know, he's a, you know, he's a special human being, man. And really kind of just taught me about the game, you know, introduced me to some really, really fun companies. And, you know, kind of snowballed from that point on. And, you know, when I'm meeting with founders, you know, I like to take bets on the founder, right? You know, obviously they started it with their vision.

And, you know, once you get a chance to meet some of them, they're so unique and so entrepreneurial and so intelligent and, you know, to see around corners. And, like, I mean, there's so many similar attributes to what I saw in professional sports, you know, but in a much larger scale, you know, as a professional athlete, you know, you're taking care of yourself, right? you're working out to be the best that you can be. But, you know, when you're finding like yourself, there's so many things you have to think about outside of the box and rely on so many other people to take care of your baby. I mean, you've got 500 people now who are stewards of your vision. You know, that's difficult to be able to quantify that, you know, especially at scale, that's what makes it so unique. And to be able to hear some of these stories and some of the backgrounds and some of the things that they've overcome, you know, most of the founders that are successful,

they've had two, three, four companies that have failed, right, that it, that didn't materialize the way they had hoped and, you know, that they still have the resolve to pick themselves up and go, look, I can do this. I believe in me and this is why I'm, you know, raising this and this is why I'm doing this. And like, it's, it's an unbelievable man to be able to meet some of them and be able to see their journeys. Well, I appreciate that you took a bet on me in that process. I really do. Very grateful to have you in my life, Larry. Thank you. I feel very grateful to have you in mind. You've enhanced it exponentially. You know, it's been an unbelievable journey. I've learned so much. And the other thing that I really find interesting is you get a small

glimpse into what the future could possibly hold, right? And, you know, imagine if everybody, you know, had a whoop on every single day and it's the quality of life that, how their lives will be enhanced, you know, by sleeping better. They'll be better employees. There'll be more attentive and caring parents, you know, like there's so many great benefits from that. And, And, you know, you get a chance to kind of see it in its empathy state and it continues to grow and sterilize and have a larger, you know, market shares. It's a lot of fun. It's really cool to watch it. That's what gets us going every morning, you know, as a team.

And it's a very easy, I think, mission to get behind, which is unlocking human performance and and improving health. And so through all the challenges and even the successes, the thing that keeps you grounded is, hey, there's still a lot of people out there who need this technology. And we got to make it easier for them to use. We've got to get it to them faster. We got to innovate. We got to keep pushing the envelope on what's possible. And I think if you just keep coming back to that, it gives you a steadier hand, so to speak, through the highs and the lows and keeps you consistent, right? Which has been a big theme of this conversation. What's next for you? Because, you know, I think your potential that we were talking about is so big. You know, do you think about politics? Do you think about running a business? Do you think about, you know, investing? Do you think about philanthropy? What gets you excited for this next chapter of your life? Well, a lot of, a lot of gets me excited. And I think that's the part that's really unique for me now is you really have the time to kind of hone into what you're passionate about. And, you know, my foundation started to 2005. And we really focus on early childhood education and also have an emphasis on breast cancer

and something that we talked about earlier took my mother's life. And so now to be able to really go and visit schools and donate computer labs to schools that are deficient with technology, you know, it brings so much joy to me and to be able to have my kids sharing some of those same things. My mother was in a nonprofit world when I was a child and just to be able to honor her legacy by doing some of those things. It really is something that's a, you know, a passion project for me.

I love investing. I love learning about different companies, you know, from real estate, private equity, venture. You know, I do a lot of different investment opportunities and learn different strategies. Also, you know, I have a couple, multiple business, a travel company, hospitality company. So there's no shortage of things for me to do

and occupy my time. So I stay busy. I probably busier now than I was when I play football, you know, just because like there's really no like firm commitment. You know, hey, I can't do anything from, you know, you know, Tuesday to Sunday, you know, from 7 a.m. to 5 p.m., like my schedule is blocked. So now I don't have that. I can kind of dive into a lot of different projects. Then I also get to go, you know, back to executive business programs around the country, you know,

to be able to really zero in and, you know, gain some expertise and points that I would like to be better at. It's interesting. I think actually the challenge for you probably at some point will be a question of focus. You know, part of what made you such a world class. professional athlete was that degree of focus and sacrifice. And so for you in this next chapter, finding the two things or five things that you really want to be, again, world class at, I think it's going to be, it's going to be an exciting journey for you. Who are other people that you look to in your life or your career as, you know, people that have been inspiring or people that you've tried to emulate things about? Well, that list is long, but that list is long. There's a lot of

people, I really, I really look up to and admire, you know, if it's from, from a business standpoint, the guy who kind of really gave me my great business push is a Frank Bizignano, CEO of Fasserve, you know, he was kind of the one that, you know, pushed me to really start to expand, gave me an internship at J.P. Morgan 10 plus years ago. How did that exactly work? Because it's a funny image. Well, so I was just coming off the season. I was at a Knicks basketball game against the Phoenix Suns, And I met, Frank came up to me and said, hey, Larry, I know you are. You don't know who I am.

My name is Frank. You know, I followed your journey. You know, I like the way you go about your business. And I think that you have a bright future. I want to offer you something I think will be helpful to you. And I'm like, you know, so we started emailing back and forth. And he invited me after to do the internship. And like, it changed my life.

Like, how I looked at everything. And so every day would be something different. One day, I'll be in private wealth management. the other day. I'm in estate planning. I'm on the, I'm on the bond floor or someone, you know, how they do mezzanine funding and, you know, how LIBOR is created. You know, like all of these things I never in my life thought about. You know, I saved my money, but, you know, my financial I just said, hey, we're going to do this. I'm like, okay, that's fine. Not that I knew anything that was going on, but then I had a great understanding. And then it just really, like, just

open my eyes to so much, you know, I started getting some of the, some of the private, private deals and and like it was just it just changed me. Frank really, he did me a great solid. He could have sat in his seat all night and not say the word to me, but he chose to come up and do that and it meant a lot to me. Well, but the combo of it also goes to you. I mean, how many professional athletes would say, you know, look, I'm not going to be an intern.

Do you know who I am? And there's a big theme, I think, for people who are successful like you across a lot of different disciplines, and it's a willingness to climb back down the mountain to find a new way up, right? I mean, you said, hell, I'm going to be a beginner at this. I'm willing to be a beginner at this. I might be a Hall of Famer over here, but I'm going to be a beginner at this, and I'm going to start as an intern. And I have to imagine that's led to enormous success for you now today, but being willing to just hit that reset and say, I'm to start at the bottom of the mountain on this on this particular field and and have the humility

to do that yeah i mean that's that's something that you really you really do have to kind of just humble yourself and realize you just you just don't know you don't have the expertise in these fields and if you want to this is where you have to start and i've never been a stranger to getting on my knees and um you know starting at the ground level and i i enjoy the journey I really, you learn a lot from, you know, like entry-level employees, you know, just how company culture and just kind of how, you know, they work their way to the very top, you know, so I would spend times like, you know, entry-level employees and then by the end of the day, you know, I'm sitting in Jamie Diamond's office, right? You know, it's like you see

this crazy trajectory, but, you know, you see where it starts and how, you know, the dream kind of is realized. What advice do you give to people who don't see that for themselves? They don't recognize the importance of that reset and saying, okay, if I want to go into this field, I need to start as a beginner. I mean, I imagine you speak to professional athletes who don't see that. They think that they're a professional athlete and everything they want to touch now. I think it's very difficult sometimes for especially professional athletes to do it just because of the level of success they've had. And you know, you automatically think, hey, I'm going to go do this and I'm going to be great in that. But no, no, that's not how it works.

The person that you're going to work with, you know, that person has been doing this for 20 years, the same way you've been shooting baskets or hitting baseballs or slapping pucks or kicking soccer balls or catching football. They've been doing that same thing for the last 20 years. And so if you're not putting in that same level of commitment, you're not going to have that same level of expertise. And so, you know, I understood that from very early age

that if I wanted to have any success once I was done, that I was going to have to put the work in. And so every offseason, you know, I would take time to really be diligent and thorough and, you know, gaining my gaining knowledge and expertise and something else. And, you know, now, you know, just, you know, I'm not saying I'm an expert at anything, but I definitely have a lot of knowledge, you know, in most of the things I'm involved in now, and it's only going to get better because I'm going to continue to work at it. Well, I think you're a real inspiration, Larry.

You're a big inspiration for me and, you know, a huge inspiration for young athletes out there. But really everyone, I think the way you carry yourself. and the attitude you have towards life is second to none. So I'm just grateful to have you on this podcast. But, you know, also grateful to have you in my life, man. It's been fun talking to you. Thank you. The pleasure is mine.

And we'll stop running from me on the golf course, man. You've been ducking me. You've been ducking me. Well, as nice as I've been to you on this podcast, you got an ass whoop and come in a way and get out on the golf course. No, I'm still for that. Don't write checks your ass can cash now, all right? Okay, there we go.

All right. go well that that that that'll be our uh our next uh adventure together i'm excited to get out there with you i look forward to it and uh appreciate the opportunity and you have a wonderful day and happy holidays to you thank you to larry for coming on the whoop podcast if you enjoyed this episode please leave a rating or a review don't forget to subscribe to the whoop podcast check us out on social at whoop at will omit and you can get 15% off a whoop membership if you use the code Will W-I-L-L. All right, that's it. For now, folks. Stay healthy. Stay in the green.