WHOOP Podcast - Pro athletes and coaches discuss how alcohol impacts their bodies and their training, as well as the insights they’ve gained from WHOOP data, in a Sober October compilation episode.

Episode Date: October 22, 2019

In a special Sober October compilation episode:NBA champ Marc Gasol says WHOOP helps him understand alcohol's effect on sleep (3:19)Gold medalist Ginny Thrasher details how even small amounts impact her data (6:15)Pro street skater Neen Williams credits getting sober for extending his career (7:33)Nike master trainer Kirsty Godso believes sleep deprivation is worse than a hangover (15:50)Pro golfer Scott Stallings notes that your body metabolizes some types of alcohol better than others (18:26)Superhero trainer Don Saladino says the calories from drinking are not what we should worry about (20:50)Basketball legend Sue Bird explains how WHOOP makes her more thoughtful about when she drinks (22:52)Headspace co-founder Andy Puddicombe shares his motivation for giving up alcohol and becoming a Buddhist monk (24:45) PGA Tour Champions leader Scott McCarron talks about why he doesn’t like to drink when he travels (26:58)The Ainsworth creator and HPLT founder Brian Mazza discusses his poor training behavior as a student athlete (28:27)Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

We discovered that there were secrets that your body was trying to tell you that could really help you optimize performance, but no one could monitor those things. And that's when we set out to build the technology that we thought could really change the world. Welcome to the WOOP podcast. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Woop, where we are on a mission to unlock human performance. Our clients range from the best professional athletes in the world, to Navy SEALs, to fitness enthusiasts, to Fortune 500 CEOs and executives. The common thread among whoop members is a passion to improve.

What does it take to optimize performance for athletes, for humans, really anyone? And now that we've just launched all-new whoop strap 3.0 featuring Whoop Live, which takes real-time training and recovery analysis to the next level, you're going to hear how many of these users are optimizing their body with whoop and with other things in their life. On this podcast, we dig deeper. We interview experts. We interview industry leaders across sports, data, technology, physiology, athletic achievement, you name it. How can you use data to improve your body? What should you change about your life? My hope is that you'll leave these conversations with some new ideas and a greater passion for performance. With that in mind, I welcome you to the

Whoop Podcast. And that's even getting into alcohol. Like, when someone asks me, when I go drink, what do I drink? I'm like, I'll drink beer, gasoline. Like, what are you serving? Like, to each is all. It doesn't matter. I'm not, I'll drink tequila because I like it.

It's gluten-free, great. But I'm less worried about the calories from the alcohol than what it's doing to your sleep and your hormones. Totally. And how it's beating up on you and the aging process. What's up, folks? This month, Woop has teamed up with Joe Rogan and fellow comedians Bert Kreischer, Tom Segura, and Ari Sheffir for Sober October to see how sobriety impacts sleep, recovery, and overall wellness. As part of our community, you can get a live look at

their Woop data to see their progress and also join Team Sober October to monitor your own sobriety and its impact. I am now 22 days. into this and enjoying every bit of it. And you can check out the show notes to learn more or you can visit sober october.wop.com. So we've got a special sober October episode for you this week. It's a compilation of what all of our guests have had to say about the impact alcohol has had on their bodies. So we're pulling a number of specific insights and background that people have said on their experience as drinking alcohol and things that they've learned about alcohol in their WOOP data.

So you're going to hear from gold medalists, world champions, and some of the most elite coaches on the planet. To kick things off, here's NBA champion Mark Gassal, sharing a funny story from the night he was drafted and explaining how Woop helps him better understand the impact alcohol has on his sleep. As I understand it, you were drafted in June of 2007, right? And that was to the Lakers. So if I'm not mistaken, you were actually in a package that included your brother, right now.

Yeah, actually, I was part of the package that, you know, got sent back to Memphis. Right. But, yeah, that, you know, first of all, my draft night, like, it's not like, you know, most kids see draft night ass. You know, I was back in Spain. Yeah. You know, it was really late at night. I was spending the night with actually Pau and my actual wife. and some friends

and by the time they picked me I was not up you know it was fell asleep we start playing games

with the drafts pigs and taking shots and wine and I'm next thing you know you're drunk yeah

I just passed out in the couch they woke me up they picked you finally picked you and it was 48 picked by the Lakers

yeah and then a few months later got traded you know for one another But, like, my rights got traded back to Memphis, and Paa got traded to LA and went on and won a couple championships.

So you've been a whoop user for a little while? Like, what are some things that you've used the product for? Rest the most, like, monitoring my rest. My strain is kind of hard because the game, and you can not wear the whoop during the games. Yeah. But for resting and trying to see how the different things that I do before going to bed affect my sleep. Right. And sometimes you feel like you had a great night of sleep, but all of a sudden, like, you're really.

recovery number, it's not what it should be. And you're like, oh, why is that? Like maybe you had a couple of glasses of wine, and you're like, well, maybe I shouldn't do that as much, even though it feels great. But you want to get your rest and your heart rate, you know, your resting heart rate, it's normally the same, but, you know, the numbers don't always want the way you wanted. So just feeling that out, it's important for me, like knowing what affects my sleep and when I want to peek, what should I do before that night?

What was the lowest recovery you've ever gotten on me? Single digits. Really? Yeah, single digits. And what was it from sickness or drinking or overtraining? It was more about like a loss, like losing the game and drinking maybe one or two glasses. Of wine? Of more wine.

Like normally my cutoff is two glasses. And then you want three, four. And I paid for that. sometimes you need it. Sometimes you need that extra glass of wine. Just to reset. Correct. Correct. Next we have Ginny Thrasher, Olympic gold medalists in the sport of Air Rifle, discussing how she won't even have a single drink the night before a practice. Ginny notices that small amounts of alcohol have significant effects on her whoop data. Do you ever drink alcohol? Very, very occasionally. I do find that alcohol. affects my sleep a lot and I'm also pretty petite so the threshold for how much alcohol that affects

me is pretty low. So for instance, when I wake up, Woop asks me if I had two or more drinks within two hours before bedtime. So for me, I check that box if I have had one or more drinks within three hours before bedtime because I know that affects me. And it sounds like that's not something you're doing particularly often. No, I'll never have. I won't even have a glass of wine the night before I have practice. So the only time I would really drink is, you know, socially if I'm on a break or something. Here's pro street skater, Neen Williams.

An ACL injury at age 28 made Neen realize he was throwing his career away drinking and partying. Neen notes that his body couldn't heal itself physically when it was also trying to recover from alcohol on a regular basis. He also shares how getting sober has helped him revitalize and extend his career. Having spent the last two days with you, like you're a super fit guy and you look ripped and like you look super healthy. You look like you're very focused on performance. Now, there was a period in your life when that wasn't the case, right?

Yeah. growing up I always partied and drank and stuff with friends I live like that cliche skate life just drinking partying just having freedom basically you know it it took to a couple years later after I turned pro is when like I made the change to kind of go on more of a health and wellness journey than and like really clean up my act. Was there a moment where you're like, I got to dial this back or I've got a problem?

Yeah, basically I turned pro with a bunch of my sponsors. And at this point, I was like partying a lot and then skating a lot. And then the partying started getting more frequent and I started skating less. And I started like really getting to a point where I was like kind of throwing away my career. I was just kind of just like breaking even, you know. I was just... Like you were

getting better at skateboard. I wasn't getting better. I was just constantly... Pretty much, yeah. And what ended up happening was I kept trying to, to like film tricks and do my skateboarding job, you know? And I ended up tearing my

ACL. Oh, shit. Taring your ACL, I'm sure you know. It's like it takes like six months to heal from it, but But then, like, still, like, another year from that to get back to where you were and progressing and stuff, you know? Yeah. So I tore my ACL, and when I tore my ACL, it was, like, something clicked in my head saying, like, hey, like, you're throwing away your career. Because you never, you never notice yourself doing a bad thing until something happens, you know?

Like, I was going so far off the route that I was supposed to be on. And because I couldn't see this, I just kept going. And then I tore my ACL, and then it made me realize, like, hey, you're messing up, dude. Like, time to snap in, get everything you can out of life, while you can. How old are you at this point? I was 28. 28 years old. It was about four, four and a half years ago.

Yeah. basically what happened was I tore to ACL and everything snapped and I was just like wow you're throwing away your life like time to like really get everything you can out of life I worked so hard to get to where I am in skateboarding like it's so hard to get to become a professional skater it's the hardest thing it's like winning the lottery it's like you know like all these other sports like basketball football all that It's the same process to turn into a pro. You know what I mean?

So it's like you get all the way up there and you're just partying and throwing it away, you know, just live in life like there is no tomorrow. And it was the wrong way to live, you know? Like when you get to a place like that, you should be doing something positive for the community. On some of it, do you feel like if you hadn't had that accident, you know, you may not have cleaned up your act? Yeah, you know, that's a, that's like one of my fears, really. It's just, you know, the things that I went through kind of shaped me to who I am today, you know.

And if I didn't have that accident, I probably wouldn't be where I am today, you know. Well, there's a silver lining to that for anyone listening, which is that sometimes, like, the deepest moment of darkness comes at great outcome. Yeah, definitely. You know, sometimes you need to hit rock bottom, so to speak. And it sounds like for you that was your moment of rock bottom. Yeah, it definitely was. It was my moment of clarity, you know, you can say. And what was your road to recovery?

So basically, when this all happened, I planned to just take off six months, you know, six months from no drinking, no partying, just so my ACL could heal properly. You know, I got the ACL reconstruction surgery and all that, got a donor and all that stuff in my ACL. So, six months, and then you're basically good, and then you have to do, like, physical therapy and all that stuff and build back the muscle. But I was like, I'll take off six months, and the thing's going to heal properly and faster, because when you're drinking while you're healing, your body's trying to fight two things at once. It's trying to heal your body from the alcohol poisoning. you just put in and then it's also trying to heal your ACL or your injury that you have you know so I figured I'm gonna give it one thing to work was it hard for you to be sober for six months

after that kind of a lifestyle it wasn't that bad because you know I at this point I had goals you know I was like I was 28 I was like you know I really want to skate as well as I can and I want to get back into work as fast as I can you know like I want to get back and film my video part. It's affecting your livelihood in a dramatic way. Exactly. It's like, now I have to sit around and play video games for six months, you know. But like I'm trying to get back out there on the field, you know, and skate.

So basically the first two weeks were the hardest because you have to, I had to sacrifice a lot. Like a lot of the friends and places and things that I did at the time, I had to like basically cut that all off in order to stay away from partying. from partying and drinking. So I just spent like the first two weeks in my house, which was fine. I mean, I couldn't walk anyways, you know. You're not going to be the life of the party. You can't walk. Exactly. So I chilled inside my house and started healing up and all that good stuff. And after two weeks, I stopped, like the urge to drink kind of got smaller

and smaller, you know, and the longer I went, the easier it got. And then the days just started passing by. And one of my bosses, he told me this really good bit of information. He said, you know, whenever you get an urge to drink, wait 10 minutes. Because if you wait 10 minutes, nine times out of 10, your mind ends up doing something else. Like, you'll be like, oh, I want to drink. Like, I'm going to drink right now. Like, don't act, wait. And then in 10 minutes, you'll find yourself doing something else. And you don't even want that drink or that cigarette or whatever anymore, you know.

So that was a very, like, valuable tool that I used while I was in the first few stages, you know. And so today, I mean, this is now four and a half years later from the accident. Are you sober? Like, have you not had a drink since? Yeah, I haven't had one sip. That's amazing. Yeah. Like, I haven't, I've been to a couple bars, but I've never, I haven't had a sip of beer.

I haven't even, like, been like, oh, let me try that cocktail. So it's like you flipped a switch. Yeah, I flipped a switch. And now, you know, my goals are, I want longevity, you know, I want to skate forever. And this is, it sounds like this is very, it's all in your mind, very goal-centric. You're not part of the communities, like AA and other things. No, I never went to AA. This is all just something I did by myself for myself for the best.

bet for the better of my health and my my goals and my career next we have Nike master trainer and self-described energy dealer Kirsty godzo she explains how sleep deprivation can have as great an impact on her ability to perform as a hangover one of the books i'm reading at the moment is called why we sleep right and it's terrifying but it's amazing and i love how it talks about like how humans are the only like species that will go against the grain so much their own detriment in terms of not prioritizing sleep yeah that's like doing something where they have no gain you there is no gain for us to do that and you know obviously we've heard these things flowed around before how when you are sleep deprived you're more dangerous than like a drunk driver

but i know for myself like i could operate a lot better on a hangover than on a sleep hangover interesting yeah like your brain just like for me if i don't have food and i don't have proper sleep is is the fastest way for me to not be functioning well and part of the reason between that distinction is that people don't actually think sleep deprivation is a problem at least when you're a little intoxicated you're somewhat self-aware hopefully you're self-aware yes like you're intoxicated you should be guys kids slow it down with the drinking yeah you're somewhat self-aware but but sleep deprivation, often people just go, will go weeks and months and God forbid years, sleep deprived. So they don't actually fully appreciate the deficit that they're living in.

And then you never get it back. Right. Like you, you just have to really, I mean, sometimes you just have to, there's times where you have to kind of push beyond your means because circumstantially that's what has to happen. Totally. But to what extent are you going to allow that? You know, like you can't keep doing that back to back to back for days and expect there to be no consequence and or weeks or months whatever it is so you need to if you know that's going to happen and you have a super intense week coming up or two weeks with work or something you need to then try find some other balance or you need to pull back on some of the other things you're demanding of yourself so again it's making calculated decisions not guesswork and really bringing in all those

three different factors you know when you you've got strain coming from all angles like you can you see it's always a sad day when your recovery goes into red On the app, I'm like, oh, forgive me, body, for I have sinned, like, and it might not be, and generally I put myself there, it's not from training. Right. It's always from the rest of life. Right. That pulls me into the red.

So when I have routine and I'm training well, and I'm eating well, and I'm sleeping well, I'm always in the green. Here's pro golfer Scott Stallings. Scott talks about the rural drinking plays in life on the PGA tour. and why your body metabolizes some types of alcohol better than others. There's some good tips in this one. Now, are you shifting anything about your diet or anything like that? Like, do you drink alcohol?

I do. Not very much during a tournament hardly at all. If I do, it'll be clear. What is that when you mean clear? You'll have vodka. Mostly tequila. Oh, interesting. I did the RP thing, and they were big on whatever your body metabolizes the most.

But once the tournament starts, I rarely eat. that's interesting so you did a test that shows that you know that's that's not a test that's just proven fact oh okay okay so the pure the the the tequila your body metabolizes it better your body metabolizes tequila better than other alcohols yes that's a fact correct oh all right we're learning i'm glad i learned that i don't know if we want to necessarily think that's where we go so i just drink a lot more tequila i told that to one guy's like so i just drink tequila all the time and i'm going to be good i was like no i did not say that i did not not say that. But I think that, you know. I think you got a tequila sponsorship coming

your way. I don't know. We just got to the point where guys can promote alcohol. So I don't know if that's necessarily we're going for. But I think that, you know, definitely off weeks, you know, but tournament weeks way more down. So you won't have drinks on Monday or Tuesday even? No, Monday, Tuesday for sure. But as the tournament goes on. It's okay on Monday Tuesday. Yeah, and that's a rarity, too. Definitely tournament weeks. I try to shy away. Now, I've heard that there's some guys on tour sort of party animals

currently in the week. I have no recollection of that. I mean, my family travels with me. So you're not in that scene. And especially with them trying to, this is the last year of them traveling. I try to just do my thing, get in the gym, get on the course, do my work,

and then go be a dad and be a husband and be with them as much as I possibly can. You know, whether that's happening last in a while my wife at the end of the night, whether having dinner with my family I just the idea of that is so foreign to me I don't necessarily know how to relate to that like hey let's go out it's like

where like what does that mean bed time's not nine o'clock now here's Don Saladino the trainer known for getting actors superhero ready for upcoming movie roles Don discusses why he worries less about the calories from drinking and more about what it does to sleep. The first thing I'm using it for is sleep.

After that strain and all that stuff, it's great. It's fantastic, but I'm really spending the majority of my time with my clients being like, look, how do we get that six-hour and 30-minute mark to seven hours? Because you need a minimum of seven hours. Or you had three drinks last night. Look what happened to your recovery. Look how that dropped. So for me, that's where the magic really is, is improving sleep quality.

And the interesting thing, too, I mean, I've learned this just by being. so close to sleep monitoring is like 95% of your body's human growth hormones produced during slow-wave sleep, you know? So if you're not getting slow-wave sleep, what a disadvantage you're making for yourself in the gym? Paul Check said this 15, 20 years ago. He's like the best fat burn or someone asked it. He's like, sleep. And it's free. You know, it's just one of those things where people don't understand the more sleep you get, the more you can get your hormones to regenerate or call what you want, reproduce, heal. and that's even getting into alcohol.

Like when someone asks me when I go drink, what do I drink? I'm like, I'll drink beer, gasoline. Like what are you serving? Like, do each is like it? It doesn't matter. I'm not, I'll drink tequila because I like it. It's gluten-free, great.

But I'm less worried about the calories from the alcohol than what it's doing to your sleep and your hormones. Totally. And how it's beating up on you and the aging process. You know, you see these rock stars who were in their 60s and they look like they're 90. It's because they spent a lot of years where they weren't sleeping and they were drinking.

And it's like the proofs and the person. winning here. It's less about, I'm not going to get fat from having, you know, a couple beers once a week. It's not going to happen. I'm more concerned with that once a week drinking what it's going to do to my sleep the next day and how that's going to affect my workweek and productivity. Next, we have basketball legend Sue Bird, champion on every level she's ever played. Sue explains how who helps her be more thoughtful about the time she does let loose and have some drinks she also shares the cause of her lowest ever recovery what are some other things where you've seen better numbers better numbers um or worse numbers i'm like i know when i see the

worst numbers like alcohol alcohol holy holy holy i'm sure megian winning had no effect on your recovery right exactly no zero all those times we win championships take the whoop off Yeah. Yeah, no, I think, you know what I found with the Woot more than anything? Like, it's kind of like you probably know what's bad and what's good and alcohol is the best example of this. You know, it's like you're not sleeping great and you're waking up feeling like crap. To see numbers, it just like validates that. And so I think for me personally, seeing the number, now I'm like a little more reluctant. I'm like, or I should say I'm more thoughtful around the times I'm going to quote, let loose or like have some drinks and like, yeah, it makes you be very focused about when you're doing. it and why you're doing it. Totally. Like, I was just, before we came on the podcast, telling you it was my friend's 40th. And simultaneously to that, it was just like a weekend of fun at a friend's house where almost like a reunion of sorts.

And I literally said to myself, I'm going all out. I'm not going to think about food. I'm not thinking about alcohol. I'm doing whatever. Flip cup, Beirut, you name it. And then when I get back to Seattle on Monday, which is where we are right now, it's go time. So I don't plan on, like, drinking.

I plan on getting back on my nutrition tip. What's the lowest recovery you've ever had on? Oh, God, like 2%. And what happened? I was drinking all night. Yeah, big night out. Big night out. Huge night out.

You probably had a green the day before you won something. And then you had a 2%. Yeah. That alcohol, man. It's bad. Yeah. It's bad. Here's Andy Putakum, Buddhist monk and co-founder of the meditation app Headspace.

Andy discusses what motivated him. to give up alcohol and completely change his life at age 22 now was it obvious that you were going to become a Buddhist monk or did you have sort of this tipping point moment it was in no way obvious okay so to give some context I was I was at university I was studying sports science I was working as a personal trainer I had a girlfriend that were none there was none of the foundations pointing towards nothing at this stage nothing is pointing towards Buddhist monk I was also still competing in gymnastics so very sort of physical um and i was going out drinking a lot as well

so yeah you wouldn't have thought it and then i think i just hit it's probably about halfway through my degree i was probably about a year and a half in just kind of hit a real point um how old were you at this time i was 22 okay um so i i'd gone to university a little bit late i took three years to go traveling before before i even thought about going back so you were always adventurous let's leave it that. Yeah, I think that's fair to say. And I just hit a point where I just felt that I was quite regularly overwhelmed in my mind. I'd gone through some stuff in my late teens, been involved in a car accident where some people had died. My step-sister had died as well. Yeah, right about that. You had this like really brutal year of your life, right?

A really tough year. And I had dealt with it to the extent of sort of getting by, but I'd never really kind of sat with that stuff and got comfortable with it or as comfortable as you can and i just i just had this really strong feeling that i was never really going to feel that sense of peace that i was looking for a sense of happiness that i was looking for if i just continued to to study from a book and at some stage i had to kind of take that next leap so i put down the meditation books and the sports science books and i um i quit uni and headed off to the Himalayas instead. Now here's PGA Tour's Champion's money leader, Scott McCarran,

talking about why he doesn't like to drink at all when he travels because of the compounding effect it has on his whoop recovery. I just got, I went seven straight days in the green, great sleep. I was up in Canada. It was fantastic. I lose the tournament Sunday. I go to sleep Sunday night. but we got to wake up at 3 o'clock in the morning for a 4.

We've got to get the airport 4 for a 6 o'clock flight international. Don't get much sleep. Had a couple drinks Sunday night. There you go. 2% in the red. 2%. I went green for 7 days than 2%. You know, it's like it's amazing how much different you feel when you don't get good sleep.

What are some things that you found have improved your sleep over time? Well, okay, one, not drinking. much. I really don't drink on the road at all. But when I'm at home, off weeks or whatever, we'll have friends over, have a glass of wine or a cocktail or two, I really notice if I have more than two cocktails, it affects my sleep. Totally. I mean, just not, it's not even, not even close. So that is, that's a big thing. Again, making me accountable. Here's Brian Maza, founder of high-performance lifestyle training and creator of the extremely successful brand of high-end sports bars, the Ainsworth.

Brian explains why some bad decisions and poor training behavior brought an end to his college soccer career and how he's used that experience to reshape his lifestyle today. So I played soccer in Westchester for FC Westchester, and that was a premier club number one. in the country at one point, one national championship, and then, you know, got a scholarship to go to the University of Rhode Island where I'd come up to Boston and play some Northeastern and B.U. and B.C. So playing soccer there, and I really didn't have that good of an experience. And I think a lot of the decisions now in my career and things I like to get after and things I like to do really go back to my college career where I made a really selfish and childish decision

to quit my senior year. of playing soccer where why'd you quit you just weren't enjoying i was a punk and i was young um to be honest and i'm not ashamed to say it but you know i i talk about this a lot and i you know i really bring up that i don't like to live with regrets but i live within that regret not to make decisions like i did emotionally then in anything i do going forward in my life so i didn't get along with my coach i just i didn't want to work hard everything came super easy to me as an athlete school and so you weren't training properly i wasn't training properly you're going out a lot going out a lot i was drinking i wasn't eating the right way i mean our program didn't even know then how to eat properly

the problem is i think a lot of these programs are so strapped for cash as well right that your pregame meals are like at the country buffet or i remember we would you know travel on the bus and we'd go to mcdonalds because we'd only have like six dollars per person right right and you're talking about like the 16th team in the nation, D-1. Yeah. Right? So it's pretty wild. And I think that probably still goes on to some degree in a lot of these programs that don't have.

Well, college athletes should make money, I always thought. I agree. And especially, you know, Duke basketball or fill in the blank school that's generating tens of millions of dollars, right? I mean, that's why you don't blame them when they go, you know, play one and they leave. Yeah. So, yeah, I, you know, played soccer and I quit and made a really bad decision. And I wasn't recovering the right way. They didn't even know what recovery was.

Recovery was, who's getting the six-pack of beer and the next morning is like, who's getting the bagels? Yeah, right. So didn't hydrate properly. They didn't do anything the right way. Thank you to everyone who's talked about alcohol in the WOOP podcast. I hope everyone out there participating in Sober October got as much from these insights as I did. And you can follow along at sober october.com.

If you're not already a WOOP member, you can join our community for as low as $30 to begin. We provide you with 24-7 access to your biometric data, as well as analytics across strain, sleep, recovery, heart rate variability, and more. The membership comes with a free Woopstrap 3.0. We offer 6, 12, and 18-month memberships. The more you sign up for, the more you save. If you enter the code Will Ahmed at checkout, that's Dumb. W-I-L-L-A-H-M-E-D will give you $30 off a membership, just for listening to this podcast. For our European customers, the code is Will Ahmed E-U, and that will give you 30 euros off when you join.

For our listeners in Australia, the code Will Ahmed A-U will get you $35 Australian dollars off your membership. And for our current members, you can upgrade to the whoopstrap 3.0 and get access to all. all the new WOOP live features by following the link in your WOOP app. If you're out of contract, you'll literally get the 3.0 for free when you commit to another six months. Check out Woop.com slash The Locker for show notes and more, including links to relevant topics from this conversation and others. Make sure to subscribe, rate, and review the WOOP podcast on iTunes, Google, Spotify,

or wherever you like to listen. We'd love to hear your feedback. You can find me online at Will Ahmed. I try to respond to everyone who reaches out. And you can also follow at Whoop on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. You can email The Locker at Whoop.com with any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions you may have. Thank you again to all our listeners, to all our Whoop members. We love you.