WHOOP Podcast - Risking it All to Make History with Mountain Biking Legend Nicholi Rogatkin

Episode Date: September 25, 2024

On this week’s episode, Director of Sports Marketing Jeremy Powers is joined by Freestyle Mountain Biker, World Champion, and the first-ever Slopestyle Triple Crown Champion, Nicholi Rogatkin. Nicholi currently holds the most wins for any FMB world champion, with 25 wins and counting. Nicholi and Jeremy discuss Nicholi’s introduction to the sport (2:09), the ins and outs of competition (9:09), surviving crashes and injuries (11:51), Nicholi’s riskiest Red Bull Rampage run (20:08), setting historic standards in the sport (29:22), Nicholi’s WHOOP data (41:21), and Nicholi’s advice to new riders (49:42).Resources:Nicholi's InstagramNicholi's TikTokNicholi's TwitterFollow WHOOPwww.whoop.comTrial WHOOP for FreeInstagramTikTokXFacebookLinkedInFollow Will AhmedInstagramXLinkedInSupport the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

They said that from where I fell from the top to the bottom is like 40 plus feet. And this felt like eternity. First, I was trying to grab some bushes. They didn't do nothing. Then, like, my face slid off the rocks. I wasn't wearing goggles that day because it was such a bright day. I didn't want the goggles to make me a mistake what I was seeing. So no goggles.

So then I just, like, scrape my face off of the edge of the clip, still trying to stop, still trying not to fall off the cliff. and then went and then I was like trying to find myself in the air during this and I swear this felt like a lifetime you have enough time to think like whoa like is this the end here like it's like kind of some deadly feeling moments what's up folks welcome back to the whoop podcast I'm your host will Ahmed founder and CEO of whoop we're on a mission to unlock human performance if you're thinking about joining whoop don't hesitate you can go to whoop com sign up for a free 30 day trial and get the full Whoop experience and wearable.

On this week's episode, Woop, Director of Sports Marketing, Jeremy Powers, is joined by Nikolai Rogatkin. Nikolai is one of the most impressive American slope-style freestyle mountain bike riders of all time. He is a world champion who has pushed his body and the sport to boundaries that at one time seemed impossible. Nikolai has landed nearly impossible tricks like his famed 1440, which is four rotations in the air, and is continuing to etch his name in the mountain biking history books.

Jeremy and Nikolai discuss getting started in mountain biking, training and developing tricks, some of Nikolai's biggest crashes and injuries. He actually talks about how crashing's an art form in mountain biking. Making history by landing multiple tricks the sport had never seen, Nikolai's whoop data, and the insane travel schedule and grind of a professional rider. If you have a question what's answered on the podcast, email us, podcast at whoop.com. Call us 508-443-4952. Here are Jeremy Powers and world champion mountain biker Nikolai Bogotkin.

All right, are you ready? This is a serious intro of Nikolai. Oh, serious. I don't know. It feels very serious. All right, welcome Nikolai to the Whoop podcast. Thank you. So if you aren't familiar with Nick Lai, he is one of the most impressive American slope-style

mountain bikers. in the world and you might be asking if you're a fan of the hoop podcast what is slope style you can think of slope style as like a rider that's doing like a double back flip uh tail spin 1080 jump off the side of a mountain followed by a front flip the stuff that everybody sees on youtube and goes absolutely wild for that's what the man across from me does for a living and he's one of the best slope style mountain bike riders in the world. And his results and victories are very, very decorated on his Palmares, pushing the boundaries and defining the culture with certain tricks that no one else has ever done. Certain tricks in the sport are named after him. I'd say you defy gravity. Would you

say that? This was an absolutely overwhelming intro, brother. Thank you so much for that. Doing things that people didn't think were possible, I think. Tricks and style, intensity, adrenaline pumping through your veins. Welcome to the podcast, Niklai. Thank you so much. Let's look to be here. I used to have a buddy that used to say, his name was Anthony. He used to be like, dude, we are going for a Richter shred. Like measuring the magnitude of earthquakes. Every time I see you riding, I think he is, he is Richter shredding. What would you say to that? Luckily, I have had a lifetime of having the opportunity to to shred, as you say, and just get after it and try to push my own limits, try to push the sports limits and just

testing to see what's possible on bike. Yeah, you're, I mean, what I was saying in the intro is like, the sport's super cool. It's two wheels. It's mountain biking, but it's also got that Tony Hawk, skateboard. Like, you've got to put it all together. It doesn't have anything to do with doing like Watts up the hill or going, you know, heart rate 200. Of course, that is part of your job. But like, you're in the adrenaline and like execution and, like, tricks and it's very, very different than what we see from like traditional bike riding. For sure, it's different. It's a lot more risk and reward, you know, you've got to risk a lot. But when things work out, you get that crazy adrenaline feeling. Like, you know there's a possibility

of crashing, getting injured, having horrible moments, but you can also land two wheels down and everything can go perfectly. So, so yeah, definitely different from normal cycling, definitely different from the racing that you did in your day for sure. So yeah, it's each their own, I guess, when they attack on bike. Well, for people that don't know about you, take us back to the beginning of time. Like, take us back to how you got into the sport, starting out as a junior, racing BMX, winning a world title for sponsors. Like growing up, take us a little bit back to, like, young Niclauioi, I can get into bike ride.

I was super lucky to get a super early start. When I was growing up, I was around five years old. And my neighbor, who was also a family friend, showed us some dirt jumps. And my dad and I got kind of right into it. I was, like I said, I was five. We both got on bikes. And he said by the time I was six or seven, he couldn't really keep up anymore, which is when he started to put me into competitions.

I think I did my first competition when I was seven on BMX, and then first professional competition in BMX when I was 12. And then, as you said, I was able to win a world championship in BMX dirt at age 17. And then right around that. With the pros. Yeah, yeah, like different from the racing, how there's like the juniors and. The open class, it was just like open pro men. So yeah, a super young age to win that.

I really couldn't believe what was going on in those moments. But then right around there, because I was so heavily into dirt jumping, which was similar idea to mountain bike slope style. And I was riding a lot of Masters of Dirt shows in Europe with some mountain bike slope style riders. So I just kind of slowly tried to transition, learn the BMX tricks on the bigger bike. And yeah, that's when I got into competing in slope style. and 10 years later, still there. And at what point, I mean, obviously, like a world title when you're still, like, 17, not, yeah, is that the point where you thought to yourself, like, this is something I can make a career out of?

Or was that always, was that, like, at like, five and six, you were like, all right, we're doing this. This is the trajectory. I mean, I had those dreams ever since I was little. The real dream was I wanted to, like, be X Games champion because when I was growing up, I was inspired by the guys like Dave Mira and Jamie Bestwick. And X-Games then was the pinnacle, you know? So as a super young rider, I was able to go to places like Woodward Camp where some of those professional riders were training for the X-Games. So the real dream was like, I want to be X-Games champion.

But then the way things played out, I went into like the mountain bike slope-style world and took that path. So like we're talking, there was always like that dream of having bike riding as a career, as a life, and just trying to push for, further and further to, like, make that possible, you know, so. Yeah. The sport was sort of developing, too, at that point. Like, it was kind of finding itself.

Like, this wasn't really a thing that people were doing in the 70s. Like, people weren't doing double backflips off of the mountains. Yeah, I mean, as the bike technology progressed, and as the riders progressed, and as the whole kind of sport was rising level-wise in every way, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We can say it's a very, very new sport in that sense. So kind of trying to pave the way in some sense, but the way was starting to be paved way before. came into this mountain bike world you were saying there were some guys that you looked up to what did you

what did you look up to them about like what was it that made you be like i want to be like that well you know when you're young and you watch those those videos of those inspirational people and watching things like x games and seeing those legends perform on the biggest stage and just like that excitement before someone drops in like that exciting feeling to see what they're going to do i think that is kind of what inspired me you know that feeling that i would get before these inspirational riders were to drop in, didn't know what to expect, knew it was going to be electrifying. I feel like that was very inspirational to me in the creation of my own riding, you know, trying to like make people excited to see me drop in. So I feel like that was the biggest

inspiration from them just the feeling that they gave me as I watched them ride and perform and compete. What like changes from those early days of like BMX, the slope style to now, like where it's at today? It's pretty professional at this point. Like I know you guys are still going through like growing pains of a sport naturally and like professionalism and like standard operating procedures and things like this. But I think the sport has changed a lot since you've been in it. And you've also said a lot of the culture. The sport has definitely changed a ton since I've been in it. Every element of the sport, the the bikes, the level of the riding, the level of the course builders. The course building is now down to a science, almost an art

form. So it's kind of everything has grown together, you know, to get to the level that we are today and it's definitely insane how far it's come. Right. So yeah, I want to dovetail into the competitions and the shows and the stuff that you're doing. So people might not know about this. Of course, they're learning. But like, tell us about the competitions. Like, how many are you doing per year? What are the big series that you're competing in in the events that you're taking part in? Total competitions probably 10 to 15 per year. But we have the four big ones that define the world championship the four crankworks events this most recent year we had rhodorua new zealand kans australia insbruck austria and whistler canada as the final stop so those are the pinnacle

competitions of the sport that decide the world champion so yeah there's other competitions like i was saying which are also very high level for some of the riders that are not yet qualified into this crankwork series but those competitions are still super hard fights in almost like a regular season game versus a playoff game, you're still got to go out there and perform. But when it really comes down to it, the competitions that matter are those big Crankworks events. And it's an overall point scale, you know. So you've got to stay consistent,

but also have those big results to get those points that you need to try to be a world champion or in that top three podium at the end of the year. Yeah, I want to get back to Crankworks and like the judging and like all the different things that go into there with like nailing and landing that. But what is the training like? Like, what are you up to right now for competitions like this? Like, talk a little bit about what your day-to-day is like for training. Well, the training, I feel like is very competition-based in this sport.

It's much less of like an organized regimen that stays the same because these competitions require specific training. You know, we kind of have an idea of what these courses are going to be. And like I said, with the different locations worldwide, those courses have such a different vibe about them. In Cairns, in Australia, there's parts of the course that are more jibby and playful and things you can get creative on, whereas Innsbruck is, of course,

only kind of with big hits and big features. So the way you attack the training for something like Cairns and Australia can be more mindful of the technical part of your riding being on it, but for something like Innsbruck, you just have to make sure that your biggest, most difficult, highest scoring tricks are dialed in. So you're gonna look at the competition

that's ahead of you and base the training around that. And training for us is a lot of practicing those tricks on soft landing because these tricks are so dangerous, you know, if you go out and try these double backflips, double backflips, combo, big rotations on normal dirt. If those things go wrong, then that can end your season right there. So a lot of repetition, a lot of safe landing moves and just making sure that you're ready to risk it all on competition day. You know what mean? Yeah. So when we first, the first time I met you, it was a very cold, uh, snowy day. Were we in New Hampshire? Is Highland up in New Hampshire? Yes, exactly. So we went up,

We went up for a photo shoot. We were shooting the new electric band. It kind of gives me the Richter Shred vibes. And the electric band was like an etched band with all these different colors in it. We went up there with a videographer, photographer. We met up with you and some of your friends. And we were training inside this like inside dome, not heated, but also not free. But it was like 20 degrees out.

It was chilly. And that was the first time that I got to see really like in your element. You had on like kind of tighter clothes, lots of pads all on your knees, up on your elbows, chest protector, full face helmet, goggles, like the whole shabangabag. And, but I, they also had a phone pit there. I almost injured myself, by the way, just jumping into it. But it's like a flat deck and you can jump straight off of it. This is like an indoor park where you're training, but the risk is not so high.

And like, I wanted to describe to the viewers like how you train for something like that. Like you've got all this stuff on. You're, you're kind of going into these tricks, but you know how to crash. But this is also where you perfect your craft. Well, it's good that you said the crashing element because the crashing, knowing how to crash in this sport is one of the most essential things because when you're learning new tricks or when you're even training for competitions, the ability to crash and then get back up and attack again is essential because it's impossible to be perfect in the sport. With the rotations we're doing with the tricks that we're trying with the new jumps, the elements of weather, like you're going to go down. Like you also said, I'm fully patted up. And the reason for being fully patted up is because basically willing to hit the ground at all times.

Every time I drop in to ride my bike, I'm like willing to hit the ground. And if I'm padded up, I know that I'm going to be able to hit the ground and get back up and keep charging at it. You know, so yeah, I feel like learning how to crash and learning your body and learning kind of how to stay composed when things go wrong. It gives people the ability to like have a long career in this sport because that's a huge part of it. That part of it is as big as being good at tricks or being stylish. If you know how to crash, can have a long career in this sport. I think you could probably say, like, if you don't crash, you're not pushing it hard enough. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's, like I was saying with the adrenaline that comes in, the times you get the biggest feelings of nerves and then the biggest feelings of excitement is like when you risk those big crashes, you know? So, yeah, massive element of this sport. I just think it would be interesting to know, like, the pads and the stuff that you're wearing. Like, could you rip through that for us? Like, I think it's cool to know, like, yeah, shoes are like this or the pads are like this.

I think people would find it interesting because I was really impressed by it when I first I was like, this is actually like a, you almost look like a football player. You're really patted up in a way that's like it allows you to just almost slide like a turtle on its back. I'm picturing that. Like a ninja turtle style with the chest protector. I feel like over the time of crashing and riding, I've had more pads added into the mix. Okay. You know, I feel like when you start out and you're young, you want to be cool.

and stylish so less pads means more free movement more ability to look cool but i just remember like half shell helmet first cut and then competition when i was young smacked the face on the ground okay now full face you know what i mean or like nervous back flip over rotate on my back you know tailbone pad and then like over time those pads get added on always wrote with no upper body protection but then when i was 16 i think i had um injury where i ruptured my spleen Landed on the front wheel, bars turned, the bars push the ribs and then cut the spleen open. Big recovery from that. Insane, like internal bleeding situation, super scary moments.

Luckily, still have my spleen. But then from then on, I'm like, how could I ride without a chest protector, you know? Right. And so over the time, kind of those experience, those graphic experiences that you want to prevent, then you're padded up. And that's why you're like, I can hit the ground and I'm going to be fine. Right. Some riders crash and they attack back at it with the same level of pads.

But for me, it's like. those experiences stay in the brain and kind of make you more nervous than you should be to go. But then if you're patted up, kind of good to go, willing to risk it all. Yeah, I wanted to talk about your injuries a little bit because I think it's part of like a lot of sports where you're just like even when I was racing like, yeah, okay, it's not if it's when. You know what I mean? And it's the same for you guys. I assume.

I don't want to put words in your mouth. But tell me about like what are some of your worst injuries. Last year I know you broke your wrist. I think you remember saying it was like kind of a silly crap. Like you saw the video and I remember you like holding it being like running with it like, oh no. No, no, no, no, no. That's also what I do when I crash. I also like, no, no, that didn't happen. Nope, no, that didn't happen. I have a feeling that like, you know, we all do this as like a coping mechanism. But I want to, the people that listen, like some of your worst injuries, like recovery, because I think it's a huge part of your world. It's so hard to get all the best competitors on the line for like a rampage or crackworks because someone's always injured. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, the injury denial is just making me laugh because that's such a huge part. The first thing you do when you crash is like, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. But overall, for the amount that I have to crash, I feel like I've been pretty lucky injury-wise, knock on wood. Yeah, yeah.

I had some brakes in my leg in my foot back in BMX days, just from overshooting or over-rotating a spin, the leg comes off the bike, had like a break in the tibia, and then a break in the fingers of the foot, which isn't horrible. And then the ruptured spleen was definitely the most... It wasn't really graphic, but it was scary.

Because at first I was fine, and then I started kind of feeling nauseous, and then they put me in the ambulance, and then I arrive, And then they tell me, I have all this internal bleeding. So I was like, things can get serious pretty fast. So that was a, that was a gnarly one. And then, where were you when that happened?

I was in Portland, Oregon. It was a due tour stop for BMX back in the day. Final practice day right before the contest. Tail whip that went wrong. But yeah, and then when I came into mountain biking, there was definitely no shortage of hard crashes. There was a lot of hard crashes, a lot of head smashes, which probably were concussion level.

But in terms of breaking things, or separating things or just things that would have put me out of competition. I was able to avoid those for basically the first 10 years of my career. I didn't miss a single crankwork stop ever since the first one that I qualified in. But then, yeah, like you're saying, I was in Cannes, Australia when I broke the wrist, came up short on a jump, over the bars, put my wrists out like this. Just natural instinct. Kind of the last thing you should do, but for some reason, naturally,

to just put the arms out like this and the left arm just took the impact. Immediately I was like, I don't know what's wrong, but something feels wrong. But then it was like, like you're saying like, no, no, no, no, nothing's wrong.

And I like look down at the hand, it's pointed the wrong way. I can like kind of see the bone, not poking out of the skin, but like making its best effort too. There was so much adrenaline that the pain wasn't so bad, but as the adrenaline started wearing off

and because of the dislocation of the wrist, it was like this crazy burning feeling. I was like, ah, this burns so. hard. The medics gave me this green whistle, which I'm not really sure what's in the green whistle, but it's the legendary green whistle. Okay. And it wasn't like the pain disappeared. The pain was still there, but like my brain just didn't care about it anymore. Okay. Some of my fellow competitors were right there and they were telling me that I was like, boys, I broke my wrist, but doesn't matter or whatever. Like kind of, but I remember like still feeling the pain,

but like it just simply did not matter. So yeah, injuries sometimes lead to funny feelings like that. But like I said, if you were to like watch a crash montage of all my worst crashes and then look at this injury list, I won't complain at all. Right. Definitely blessed on the, on the injury side. Kind of try to keep it that way. That recovery, did you deal fine with it mentally? Was it like, yeah, I'm going to take six months off and it's going to be cool or was it hard? Because it was a wrist injury and I was still able to move around, I was still able to go to the next competitions and like be there doing some media in the same headspace with my fellow competitors, which made it a lot easier for me. I feel like if I had been at home, after so

long competing and so many years of like just keeping it going, I think I would have been at home, like, kind of freaking out. But since I was able to be there and made the recovery a lot easier, I was able to like constantly see what I'm like motivated to heal up and get back to, you know? So yeah, definitely blessed in that regard. Well, I want to talk about like the different like Red Bull Rampage a little bit. You were able to do commentary even with a broken broken wrist, right? You had jumped in as like a, as kind of like an analyst, like the first year, like, oh, hey, I'm going to like jump in and like analyze a couple of these tricks and things like that. And for anyone that doesn't know about rampage, is that like a freestyle or is that

slope style mountain biking? That's pure, pure free ride. It's an event kind of in its own category. Unlike anything you've ever seen. That terrain, just like the exposure, the exposure is like when you're riding something really narrow and you can just fall off the cliffs at any moment, kind of like riding the easiest thing ever would suddenly become difficult. Like we could even be riding like on this table but if there's 100 foot cliffs on each side suddenly running on this table the table's going to feel super narrow so every element at rampage just is so gnarly it's so steep it's exposed there's no room for air really that's why rampage is such a notorious event mountain biking's most notorious event as they call it i've been there i went a couple years ago

and even walking there i was scared like truly like i thought i could die walking and i remember seeing some of the riders walk up and like shake their heads and like walk back and like put their head down and then like have to get it together and then like huck a back flip off of like a I mean legitimately like a hundred foot drop but like land it you've done rampage now you're commentating you had a bad crash at rampage too it could have been really bad so yeah the rampage crash I am so lucky that I was able to find myself in the air and land on my feet so My Rampage Crash wasn't out of ordinary crash, but the mistake that I made wasn't really out of the ordinary. So I'll take you back.

We come off the top ridge, narrow ridge, and then drop into your line. And I had like this section where it was like one drop, second drop, slow down, and then third drop. So do the first drop fine, coming into the second drop, and then hit the second drop good. But then as I was slowing down to this final drop, I just pulled too much front break. the back wheel started coming up the front wheel kind of started losing its edge and like I was saying

it's so steep and so narrow there that like that little mistake just propelled me off the edge of a cliff they said that from where I fell from the top to the bottom is like 40 plus feet

and this felt like eternity first I was trying to grab some bushes they didn't do nothing then like my face slid off the rocks I wasn't wearing goggles that day because it was such a bright day

I didn't want the goggles to make me Mistake what I was seeing, so no goggles. So then I just like scrape my face off of the edge of the clip, still trying to stop, still trying not to fall off the cliff. And then I was like trying to find myself in the air during this. And I swear this felt like a lifetime. You have enough time to think like, whoa, like, is this the end here?

Like it was like kind of some deadly feeling moments. Moments where you also think that you might get knocked out upon landing. So you're like, oh, let me try to find myself. And then I land on my feet somehow, big whiplash. and then I come to a stop and the first thing that I saw when I came to a stop is just blood dripping from my face from the clip slide

but like the crash felt so gnarly and I was like I was like where is this blood coming from like this has to be a horrible a horrible sign the medics came over to me they're like stay down stay down then I'm like no no I can't stay down like I think I'm fine I think I'm fine then I kind of walk around Rampage legend Josh Bender

Bender is a guy that like did some of the biggest drops like some impossible drops He's such like a founding father of Rampage. He'd come up to me and he's like, you got one minute to finish your run. Because there was like a time limit at Rampage. So like, not even like buddy, you're okay. Like, you got one minute to finish your run if you want it.

And then so I went, I checked on my bike. Such a weird check of the bike. I took the pedal and peddled the bike backwards. I don't have to pedal at all. Like I didn't check any other parts of the bike. I was like, oh, yeah, it seems like the chain's still on. Okay, whatever. I go.

And then I just did the rest in my run. I didn't realize how insane that would seem to people to to get up and finish the run, because I was super pissed off. You know, I come to Rampage. My team and I would dig for a week to try to make this line, and I royally fuck it up. Huge clifffall, like, they could not go worse. So I was, like, just pissed off.

I'm like, I just want to show that I can actually do this run. And then those moments kind of went a little bit viral, and people kind of still remember me more for that than my successes. But, yes, some crazy moments. Rampage is one of those things where you, to just set the tone for everyone, it would be like being on top of one of the biggest mountains in Utah looking down into a valley of all these different cliffs, but like kind of in a fairytale way, like riding a bike across it, like you were 10 years old in the back

of the car, like pretending you're on a dirt bike going over like cliffs. It's kind of like that, but people actually do it. Like the biggest drops when you see them in person, unfathomable to believe that people are doing this. This pushes the sport. This pushes the riders. I think you were telling me that like even for someone that's as much into adrenaline as you are and for as much as you like pushing yourself, this scares the shit out of you as well. It's quite a terrifying experience because it's a huge opportunity of that event. You have our opportunity to go down in the history books of the sport. So like you're saying, you build these drops, you look at these drops. And even to the rider sometimes, it seems like, I don't want to do this. Right. But then you look

kind of around the mountain and you see other people's drops and you're like, but this is my chance. So I got to do this, you know. So it kind of puts you in a different mindset where you're not even going to your limit. You're like going past your limits. Even something that your mind is telling you you should not do, you go for it. You know, you take that opportunity. It's the chopper above the tone like you're there. The wind is blowing in your face.

Like I was there for some of the starts. The wind's blowing in your face. You're looking down at this run that you know like you just said. If I miss this by one inch, it's like I'm careening down a mountain at 40 feet minimum. The chopper's overhead. do do do do do it is yeah to win flags you're like watching to see the wind flags i'm trying to get in your head on this because like i've never seen anything like it my entire life even freaks me out to think about like the risk reward ratio and i want people to understand like the way that your

mind works to be able to say yeah i'm going to do that you kind of trick your mind in these situations because because you want it so bad because you're so motivated to get it done If you listen into like the mics of some of the riders that were miced up over previous years, some of them kind of are talking to themselves saying like, you know, it's just another lap. It's just another ride. Because you're kind of like tricking your mind. It's not just another ride. It's the gnarliest ride of your life. It's the gnarliest line you ever do. But you kind of force your mind to get in that zone and stay composed because it requires so much composure to not go too fast, not make mistakes. So there's definitely some mental trickery going on for your own brain in these type of moments. Because it requires. Otherwise, if you're thinking in your own conscious brain, you're like, no, I don't do this. This is a death risk. So it's crazy for the riders to get into that headspace to make this stuff happen. And also for guys like Tom Van Steenberg and Kyle Strait, guys that like crashed so hard at Rampage, devastating injuries, broken backs, broken pelvis. They experience the worst thing that could happen.

And then they train specifically just to get back in that zone where you trick your mind again to go. again, it's just incredible. Absolute insanity. Savage. I give you so much credit for it. You're commentating it now, though. Like, you've been doing some commentary there. You are awesome. Really light up the broadcast, like watching it with Nick Lye and the crew, just going

through like the technical aspects, which you are really well known for. Like, I feel like that's what I know of you and what the community says about you is like your technical acumen is on point. But I think you've really enjoyed the commentary at Rampage's last few years. I have absolutely loved it. I've been lucky enough to experience a lot of. of things in biking, you know, how we, we've been talking about how I got a super early start in the BMX days, so much competing there, then Slope style, then took my shot at Rampage,

drastically wrong, back to Slope style, a lot of competing there, watching some of my closest friends compete in Rampage. So I've experienced a lot in this sport, which I feel like allows me to have a different and more in-depth analysis than others. And I just get so fired up during these competitions because I put myself in the shoes of the other riders and I don't always know what they're feeling but I can always paint a picture of what these guys are feeling out there and it just gets me so fired up just the opportunity to do the media and do the commentary and be the one on the mic announcing these historic moments is a huge opportunity for me so just loving it and yeah maybe I'll take a shot at riding rampage again in the next couple of years but for now

just enjoying the media while I can't all right I'll be in the stands I'll be I'll be pumping you up What's up, folks, if you are enjoying this podcast or if you care about health, performance, fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop. That's right. You can check out whoop at whoop.com. It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain, and you can now sign up for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member.

and that is just at whoop.com. Back to the guests. Well, I want to talk about the respect that the riders give you because when you go there, you can just roll up on any rider. They know you. They know what you've done and you know them and you guys have like a good relationship. You can see that immediately when you're watching the broadcasting.

You made history in 2017. I know you made history in 2018, but in 2017, was this the year that you did the 1440? Yes, I did the district ride 1440. This is the 1440 twister. So the twister is 1080. Oh, 180. So Twisters, so in 2016 was the first time I did the 1080 in competition, the Twister.

Okay. People had done it on scooters and on BMX before, and they kind of referred to it as a 720 front flip, which I just pictured was super confusing because it doesn't really look like a 720 front flip, and a 1080 is like a typical like straight up rotation, whereas this one you're, you're corking a kind of snowboard style, pre-carving the lip, extending your body and then bringing it back around. So it was a complex looking trick, but it was very fast spinning. So that's why the name Twister came to be. So then straight away, a year after learning the 1080, the three spins, I started trying to maximize the rotations and added another rotation to it. And I was working

on it in foam pits and on airbag landings. And then in 2017, I district ride there was just this ridiculously massive jump in the finish. And I kind of did some 1080s and I was thinking about whether to save the 14 for a video project or a later time. And then I was kind of like looked around at the crowd, looked at the jump. And I was like, if not now, when, you know? So went for it and luckily, luckily made it happen. And still the only one to 1440 to this day. So I think that just is a testament to how difficult that maneuver is to fit those four

rotations into one air and to ride away from it. No one has ever done that. No one's ever done that since you done it. On mountain bike, yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, you're the first guy to do it and the last guy to do it. And you made history doing it. For now, yeah.

That was insane. I believe I looked at the YouTube video. It's worth a Nikolai Rogacken YouTube search. I believe the video has over 150 million views on it. Yeah, on the Red Bull Bike channel. It's still doing some numbers. So yeah, incredible moment for me, one moment that I'll never forget. The emotions that I experienced when I landed that move was kind of emotions of disbelief,

which I feel like kind of are the best ones in competition. When you come in with these expectations that it's going to go wrong when for sure it seems impossible to land it and then you're kind of landing wheels down and rolling away, you're like, wait a sec. So I just remember that feeling of like landing, that move, probably the most astonishing moment I've ever felt on my bike. In 2018, you also made history.

Were you the first rider to win Crank Works Triple Crown? Yeah, 2018 Triple Crown. So Triple Crown is we have three or four. four crankwork stops depending on the year. And if you're able to win three of those in one season, then that's the triple crown of slope style. And the fact that they have that award just kind of shows how difficult it is to win that because it's so difficult to even win one event, like one crankwork slope style win is so difficult for every rider. So to do three in one season is like this impossible mission. In 2017, the year that I landed the 14, I had the opportunity to win

the triple crown. I want two of the crankwork stops and then arrived in Whistler. Completely fucked it up. Last place, I think. Crumbled under the pressure. Those feelings were devastating. I was like, I'll never get another chance like this. It's like the biggest chance of my life. I remember my pops was laying into me. My dad is born and raised in Russia. He was a biathlon athlete. His training is so next level. His mentality is so next level. I think his relentless mentality is one of the biggest reasons why I'm still able to attack this sport

after so many years of doing it. But I just remember him laying into me being like, like the way you just messed it up is so unbearable. The money law, the reputation, like he was just absolutely laying into me. So I just remember those moments being so devastated, being like,

this could have been the peak and this is actually like the worst moment of my own life. The next year, I kind of went in open mind did and then I win in Innsbruck. I go to Lege. I win in Lege and then I'm like, what the hell, man? Another chance. There's no way. But I went in with a different mentality. The year before, I went in feeling so much pressure like, wow, all the eyes are on me. Can't do this. Like, the other guys are better. You know, with this like mentality of like, this is impossible. I can't do it. And then the next year, I kind of went in with like, this is a massive opportunity. Like,

win or lose. Like, this is a massive, massive opportunity. So I just feel like my, mindset was more let's do this and let's try to make this happen and less like let's not fuck this up because i feel like that's what destroyed me the previous year so i was able to get my first run done put me into second place and then i was the last guy to drop so again so much pressure on this is where i'm like really interested because this is like one of those sean white Olympic moments everything came down to your last run last event last person to go to win this triple crown yeah As the first person to ever do. Those moments, like, it feels like a dream, you know.

It's just real life. And I remember these little shithead. Canadian kids were yelling at me from the crowd saying, like, you're going to crash, you're going to crash. And I'm like, don't say this. Don't say this. I'm not listening to this. But like I said, I had a more positive mentality,

especially when I realized that I was going to be the last one to drop, the last rider, the last one of the season. I'm like, this is my moment. I have to make this, try my best to make this my moment and stay composed. And yeah, luckily, was able to do it. came down, did exactly the run I wanted to do. The writers were there celebrating with me at the bottom. Score came in, joy, right champion, Triple Crown champion.

And those moments I just fell to the ground. I was like, like I was saying, with one chance, it would have been impossible. The second chance really propelled me into a mental space where I could make this happen. Insane. I guess, like, looking back at that, you were saying, like, absolute critifying, like, massive moment. Mm-hmm. Like, for you, it was just like, this is the one that you, like, you remember. This is like your world chance.

This is like the Super Bowl title. Like I don't know how to describe like the world champion of something. This is a huge moment in your life. I think the biggest because especially with Slope style because Red Bull Joyride in general is such an iconic event when it comes to Slope style. Because Crankworks Whistler, that Slope Style course in Whistler on the Boneyard, that's kind of where the origins of slope style came from, where the free ride guys got on this course and just started riding slope style. And as if you can like watch those competitions, the course building, the riding. the bikes, the crowd, however things progress, like that event in itself is so iconic. So to simultaneously win that event and also achieve the highest accolade in Slope style with

Triple Crown, thankfully, I don't know if it's possible to have a more defining moments. What was the actual, like, run that you did? Do you remember it? I watched it not that long ago, but it was like twister, front flip. Like, could you run us through the, do you remember the routine, the final? Um, yeah, so it was cork 720, which like backflip through 60, cork 720 off the start feature. Kind of a gnarly move, but one that I had done before, so no issues on that. So there was that.

And then there was a cannon log, which is kind of a takeoff that doesn't have like a kicker at the end. So it's, it's more flat. So there was a 360 tail whip off of that. Also, not easy, but a part of the run where I was pretty confident. And then it got pretty serious because there was a four pack. So just two big jumps. They call it four-pack is take-off landing, take-off landing. Then twister there, so 1080 on the first jump, and then double backflip on the second jump.

And that's, like, where the biggest portion of the crowd is. So that got them fired up for sure. Like, the 1080 to double-flip combo is like maximum crowd-pleaser combo. You know, less technical. Other riders are throwing the bar spins, the tail-ups to opposite tricks, which might be harder to do. But this is, like, most electrifying for the crowd visually. Landing that, like, the support from the crowd was massive. And then I went backflip, no-hander, it was like a step-up, step down.

So I went back-flip, no-hander up, front-flip, no-hander down, also technical there. That's more technical than what I had just done up above. And then I think come around the turn, then I think triple tail whip, so three times spinning the bike, which is also a move that I already had done in the first crank works for me. So after landing the front-flip no-hander, I'm like, okay, I'm good, I'm good. So the triple tail whip land, and then for the end feature, it was backflip bar spin up on to the structure off the last drop it was a double tail whip so another two rotations with the bike so yeah you knew you did though because you dropped the bike you were so the first run that put me in second i scored i think a 92 and then the run that brett reader him and i were neck and neck

that season and he went and i think he got 95 for his run so i was like i need to add a few elements to this run, which by calculations will get the points up. And that's where adding the no-hander into the first backflip, the bar spin into the second backflip. I'm not sure if anything else was added there. But it was like, I calculated what I needed to do. So then when I landed, I was like, score or not, first place or not, like, I've just done exactly what I plan to do to try and win this competition.

So that in its own is like, you're stoked on your own performance. A full selly, yeah, claim everything. And luckily, the judges liked it enough to put me in that first position. But, you know, when you complete the event the way you want, it's, for me, it's impossible not to, like, throw the bike, freak out, you know, because I don't know. So much goes into it emotionally. Tell us about the scoring in the way that the competitions are judged. Like, how do you win a competition? And is there a margin of error with the judges where you're like, oh, man, they got it wrong or they got it right?

Like so much, when I was at Rampage, I saw so many cameras. There's like a whole staff that are there. They all have different parts that they're doing. there's like someone that looks over their shoulder to make sure there's like that they also agree with their opinions there's a lot that goes into this judging yeah it's everything but it's difficult because they don't have much time to do it especially during these live events despite all the cameras and all the technology they still have very little time to score these runs that so much goes into so we have two runs best run counts so you can crash out of your

first run and do a second run and you can win the competition so one run counts one run that matters That's why I was saying the strategy of like doing one run and then doing another one better, seeing how the scores go. It's a lot of strategy involved. And then the judges score you won out of 100. And basically in the end, it's an overall impression score because they have so little time to score it. So they will watch the run. And then immediately as the rider lands at the last feature, the judges are like, okay, that's this. Okay, that's like they already have the idea in their head of what score they're going to give.

And they kind of talk to each other, talk about some execution of the moves. I don't even know if they have time to watch the replays. Like, hopefully they can maybe get a glance at one, but they have like two, maybe three minutes to deliver this score, which means everything. They score you one out of 100. They factor in a lot of things, amplitude, trick execution, uniqueness.

Like, you can't just do the same thing as everyone. You kind of have to have your own unique style, your own unique moves that only you are doing. So like we talked about, there's a lot of elements going into this number that they will put on, that they will put it as a label. onto your run. So overall impression is key, but all those different elements, we just kind of have

to be as individual as you can be. And like we talked about in the very beginning, the risk versus the reward. The more you risk and it pays off, like the judges will see that. They'll be like, okay, he risked it all on this move and he landed it clean as ever. We have to reward that. It's a mind game a bit with making that run perfect to the score that you want. So, insane. You do a serious travel schedule. Like, dude, insane travel schedule. You're all over the world. Like, earlier this year, you were in Australia, then you were in France. In fact, we brought you over to France to the Whoop UCI Mountain Bike World Cup where we hung, did some cool social and got to jam with some of the downhill riders and cross-country people. We did a bunch of fun stuff. But it was on this trip that Niklao was like, all right, man, so when do you want to fly over? He's like, oh, we'll fly over and then like, I'll fly back with you. And then I was like, all right, cool. So what are you doing next week? He's like, I'm flying back to Europe. I was just like, wait, what? Why aren't you just staying? You're like, wow, I got to get home.

Like, we got the things. We got to do this. We got to do that. You have a life of being on the road. And you're also doing like, it seemed like in the preseason masters of dirt. Yes. That's like a whole, for people that are listening, imagine like a monster truck rally, like super cross dirt bike meets like Nick Lye and his buddies doing like 50 backflips in a row,

one after the other, almost like an insane show. But you're combining like these competitions and also these shows. you're on the road a ton, which is, I think, how you found whoop, because we saw you using whoop and then we started a relationship. You have been on whoop for a long time. I want to talk a little bit about Masters of Dirt and your travel schedule, and then I want to talk a little bit about how you use. Woo. Okay, okay. Yeah, I mean, I'm blessed to be able to travel the way that I do. Unbelievable experiences worldwide. But like you said, throughout the year, I run into some some hectic schedules, like the liegee back to back. So I went Boston, Geneva,

and then we drove over to Lige, World's Cup, back to Geneva, back to Boston. And then the next day, Boston to Munich, then drive from Munich over to Salbach, hinterglam in Austria, do shows there, then fly home. This kind of stuff is brutal on the body, on the mind, on everything, but it's insane opportunities, like World's Cup, insane event. And then another super sick festival and shows and everything over in Salbach.

So it's the type of thing that I just can't say no to. I'm willing to suffer through the pains of traveling and the jet lag of doom to experience these things. What is Masters of Dirt? So, Massive Dirt is a show, probably the coolest extreme sports show in the world. In my opinion, I've been able to do the shows since age 13. Masters of Dirt is one of the big reasons why I was even able to have this vision of this bike riding career, you know, because they brought me in at a super young age, age 13. I was able to ride with these legends, do a show with these.

legends and be like, if I keep at it, maybe I can also become one of these legends, you know? So it was like a visualization of the possible path, which is massive for a young rider, in my opinion. So yeah, massive dirt is a, the dirt bike riders definitely do more riding than we do because they have the big 75 foot jump set up. So it's motor guys. There's one guy in the quad, there's one guy on snowmobile, there's one guy on buggy. And then there's us, mountain bike lot. Some BMXers in there, but mostly us mountain bike guys. And we have a big roll into basically a trick jump where there's no limits. You can do triple backflips. You can do 1440s. You can do basically whatever trick you dream. So the whole show, we're just doing

the biggest tricks in our book, starting from the easiest one and ending at the most complicated one. So yeah, those shows are electrifying. They're exhausting. They take up so much physical and emotional energy because you're just exerting everything. You're just putting on a show, you know, motivated as ever out there, just completely fired up. So it's like CERC to Soleil on the bike. Precisely. Yeah. You've posted on your gram, which I think Nicola's got like around 600,000 people following your adventures, but you posted some of your whoop data. And you have thrown up, I think for people that follow whoop, you put up some 20.7s, which is a big day out. And it tracks it. It's kind of amazing because you do these shows but there's like breaks in between so it's like you ride for an

hour or whatever you warm up for an hour and then there's like but anyway you broke down and like some days it's like you have five different one hour sessions where you're either practicing or doing a show and then there's another show after or whatever but you've had like 20.7 which is that's nothing to sneeze at that's like a huge day out for for anyone that's on whoop but you posted these and this is like back to back to back you've done these whether it's training or training and then a travel day I also think you might be the king of 1%. Yeah, I think I might, we have to track this data. I might have world record quantity of 1% recoveries for multiple reasons.

The jet lag, the travel, the party, and everything factors in. But I think there might be a world record number in there. We're going to have to check. All right. So we'll do the numbers on the stats. We'll get that back. We'll put that in the show notes where Nikolai ranks in 1% scores. But like, I do think it's cool.

I do think that that's, it's, you know, some riders are using it to like, yeah, we don't want to overextend because like we need to get ready for this like big world tour, the tour to France or whatever. And, you know, other people are using it because they're like training a ton or they're, you know, they're using like for strength workout or crossfitters or golfers. Like everyone's using it for something different. But I thought it was really interesting because I don't know that I would have known how much goes into something like Masters of Dirt for instance or like these other things if I hadn't seen you post that stuff. But it's like it's a ton of work. But then also when you combine the travel, it's pretty serious. And I guess it's like, we were talking before the show and you were like, yeah, you know, I just, I want to put words to your mouth, but like, it's kind of eye-opening even for you. Yeah, it's most definitely eye-opening. I think in this career, the riding and the traveling and everything is so go, go, go. I feel like it's really easy to just be like, let's keep going. Let's keep pushing. But then when you look at the whoop data and you see that the day was like you said, like 20.7 with 8,000, 10,000 calories burned. terrible night of sleep before you're like okay okay maybe we should not go because tomorrow we have

another version of the same thing you know so kind of brings you back down to real life and be like okay i need to be smart here you know because if i if i want to perform like i know that the exertion is going to be so hard like the body has to be has to be prepared for this you know and if if it's not prepared then mistakes mentally and physically can be made so easily and then those moments can be catastrophic in days like that when everything is so intense and you're kind of like feeling like pause, this was a hard day, like this was, this was really gnarly, but you got to keep it going. It kind of just helps you be smart and realize what you need to do, what you need to

sacrifice and what discipline you need to have to be able to continue performing because it's all fun, it's all fun, it's all entertaining, it's all insane, but the performance is the most important thing in the end. If you want to keep the career going and you want to stay at the top and keep experiencing these travels, these opportunities, everything. So, yeah. Injury-free, too. For sure.

And as the king of one percent, I won't leave you with that as a nickname. But as the king of one percent self-proclaimed, you also probably know the difference between what it would be like doing one of those events at one percent versus doing them like in the green where you're just thriving. And you like, you did get that good night of sleep. You're really focused on it. And like we have so many studies in different things where we show like, you know, basketball players that are in the green when they show up, they hit more threes.

Like, you know, you just know that when you, are feeling like you can show up at your best, which is what Whoop is doing so much of teaching you how to get there. It's like your ability to execute and put these super technical tricks that you're so well known for together where it's like when you show up in the 1%

you're just, that's not a day for doing the rampage run. No, absolutely not. But I feel like, so all systems go in this sport that sometimes you feel like hell, you feel like you can't do it, but then you push through and you still perform. When you're ready for it and you perform, that performance feels different.

It almost feels like things are happening in slow motion. Every mistake that might happen, you're just correcting it and making it perfect, you know? Whereas in those moments where you're less rested, less recovered, less prepared, like, you might still be making it happen, but you're kind of like all over the place. Those feelings are very noticeable. Like looking at the data, you can like, you can tell when you're feeling it and when you're like not really feeling it but still trying to make it happen. So that's important to realize those zones and to find your idea. deal zone, you know? Yeah, for sure. So we're here in Boston at HQ. Thank you for coming in. You're also from this area. So we were lucky enough to have you geographically close. We're doing a lot

of training up at Highland up in New Hampshire. We're also out, I think you come out my way, out towards Massachusetts on the western side out to the Thunder Mountain. And what advice would you give to someone that wants to get into this? They can go to these parks. They can shred. They can like start out with small jumps and like get on mountain bike. They probably even rent bikes there, I believe. What advice do you give to like either a young rider or anyone that wants to get into it like where do you start how do you get into it there's a lot of ways to get into it but i would say for the riders there's no like set path because you just have to follow your own personal kind of talent set and skill set and also what you enjoy because the easiest

way to progress in something is if you enjoy doing it because then you're going to be able to lock in hour after hour continuing so for a rider if they want to become a racer you know but then you try the racing element and you hit some jumps and you're like, wait, kind of like liking these jumps better, then maybe it's a better idea to like keep pursuing that jumping path because you enjoy it and you follow it and maybe you can progress better on that sense. Finding inspirational characters is also super important in my opinion for my personal experience. Like I was saying, through watching videos, through writing things like masses of dirt, if you have these

characters that inspire you to to get where you want to be one day and follow that like that also helps continue to progress you to places where you never even thought could be imaginable so enjoyment and following your skill set like even if i if i go with my personal riding like i haven't really attacked the technical aspect of riding that much or like the world of opposite tricks just because i'm so motivated by those crowd pleaser moves and and almost have more of a skill set in that. So you put more time into that. And that's why like free ride mountain bike and and this sport is so good because there's no set path. You kind of like attack it the way you want to. So so yeah, find what you enjoy. Find what you're good at and just put the hours

into that and you never know where you can go. Slow and low is the tempo. That's what I always say. The Beastie Boys. You know you got to go nice and slow, nice and low. Don't get yourself injured. If you want some motivation, you can hit Nikolai up on the Graham. What's your Instagram? Just my name, Nicolai Rogan. Yeah. You can see. insane videos on there of him doing super cool tricks. You can get inspired and then you can go out and grab a bike and do some of these things. Nicolaiman, thank you a lot for taking the time to come through for being a member on Woop and doing all this cool stuff, inspiring the next generation and telling all these amazing

stories here. It was really fun for all of us. And I'm grateful for the friendship. Grateful to have you in the house. And thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. This was fun. Big thank you to Nikolai for coming on the Woop Podcast.

and all the incredible stories from his legendary mountain biking career. If you enjoyed this episode of the Whoop podcast, be sure to leave a rating or review. Please subscribe to the Whoop podcast. You can check us out on social at Whoop at Will Ahmed. You have a question you want to see answered on the podcast. Email us, podcast to Whoop.com. Call us 508-443-4952. If you think about joining Whoop, you can visit whoop.com to sign up for a free 30-day trial

and take that first step to unlocking performance. new members can use the code will WI-L, get a $60 credit on WOOP accessories. And that's a wrap. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green.