WHOOP Podcast - Robert Moeller, Veteran Navy SEAL, talks about the training and preparation necessary to compete in an event that pushed the boundaries of human performance.

Episode Date: January 22, 2019

Robert Moeller, Veteran Navy SEAL, discusses competing in the first-ever Specter Series event, a skydive, swim, and 100-mile run. In Part 1, he talks about becoming a SEAL (4:06), including BUD/S training (6:38), Hell Week (10:30), his first mission (18:42), and the Rip Its Challenge and other forms of friendly hazing (25:18), as well as his first experience with WHOOP ( 29:24), why he believes it can help the military (32:55), how it enabled him to train smarter (39:47) and sleep better (43:03), plus his expectations (51:40) and prediction (59:47) two days prior to the competition. In Part 2, he recaps the event (1:03:08) and its most difficult moments (1:10:05), analyzes what he saw in his WHOOP data (1:23:51) and what his sleep (1:25:42) and recovery (1:28:07) were like afterwards, then reveals what they'll do to somehow take things up a notch for the second Specter Series event in 2019 (1:31:26).Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

We discovered that there were secrets that your body was trying to tell you that could really help you optimize performance, but no one could monitor those things. And that's when we set out to build the technology that we thought could really change the world. Welcome to the WOOP podcast. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of WOOP, where we are on a mission to unlock human performance. At WOOP, we measure the body 24-7 and provide analytics to our members to help improve performance. This includes strain, recovery, and sleep. Our clients range for the best professional athletes in the world, to Navy SEALs, to fitness enthusiasts, to Fortune 500 CEOs and executives.

The common thread among WOOP members is a passion to improve. What does it take to optimize performance for athletes, for humans, really anyone? We're launching a podcast to dig deeper. We'll interview experts and industry leaders across sports, data, technology, physiology, athletic achievement, you name it. My hope is that you'll leave these conversations with some new ideas and a greater passion for performance. With that in mind, I welcome you to the Whoop podcast.

You don't know what you have inside of you until you're put through. those six months of hell and at some point you just make that mental decision your mindset switch changes and you say I'm going to do this or I'm going to die trying that's it so folks my guest today is former Navy SEAL Robert Mueller a seal for 13 years mo as he likes to be called recently completed the first ever specter series event until you hear about this event. It's crazy. Three veteran seals, including Mo, skydived into the Pacific Ocean, swam three miles with weights on their back, then ran 100 miles, again, with weights on their back all around California, and in the process raised a lot of money for the

SEAL Future Fund. So in part one of this podcast, I spoke to Mo two days before the event took place, and we talk about his training leading up to it, how Whoop helped him prepare, everything he did in thinking about this event. And then we also talked about his time in the Navy, what it was like to be a seal, the experience of his first mission and the mindset needed to achieve success, as well as some funny stories around team building, hazing, brotherhood, you know, all the cool seal stuff. Part two, we then recap the event. We look back on some of the predictions he made, and we talk about their whoop data, which is pretty ridiculous, and what they may be doing this year to somehow take it up a notch. Coming from someone who spent more than a decade as one of the

most elite operators on the planet, I think Mo's thoughts on human performance are super insightful, and I think you will too. Without further ado, here's Mo. Mo, thank you for doing this. Thanks for having me, Will. So you've had an incredible career as a Navy SEAL operator, and I now feel fortunate to be able to work with you on some projects. at Whoop. I definitely want to talk about this upcoming event that you've got. You're going to be jumping out of a plane, swimming three miles, running 100 miles, all the raise money and awareness for the SEAL Future Fund, which is amazing. But I wanted to start with some background on you, and you served as a Navy SEAL for 14 years. Is that correct? Yep, that's correct.

And, you know, I think today, like, pop culture for better or worse has done, has done some job at least demonstrating how intense it is to be a Navy SEAL. If we go back in time, you know, early 2000, so you're joining the U.S. Navy in 2004, what did it mean to you to strive to become a Navy SEAL and, you know, where did that inspiration come from? Well, I joined the Navy in September of 2003. And where the inspiration came from is a book. I was about 10 years old when I read this book and even backing up just a little bit from there is I was a lifeguard in New Jersey at the YMCA. And one night, this gigantic man, this six foot, you know, five muscular man came into the pool and was swimming laps underwater. He was going back and forth. So he was doing 50 yards in this pool.

And at the end of the night, after he got out of the pool, I mustered up the courage that. ask this guy, you know, I said, what, what swim team do you swim for? And he said, I don't swim for a swim team. I'm an A.B. Seal. So, of course, my next logical question was, well, what, what's that? And he said, hey, kid, do you work here? And I said, I do. And he said, all right. And he walked away. Two weeks later, I got a book in the mail called Brave Men Dark Waters by Or Kelly. And it's simply no, no, nothing. It was just the book. And that was. was the first book that I ever read cover to cover. And I remember finishing that book like it was yesterday. I was sitting on the couch and my mom was cooking dinner. And I put the book

down. My mom was freaking out because I'd never read a book ever. And I looked at her and I simply said, that's it. That's what I'm going to do. And that was when I was 10 years old and through everything, through elementary school, junior high and high school, everybody said that they were going to do this and that. And I said I was going to be a Navy SEAL. That's amazing. And what in that book, like, jumped out to, were there a couple stories that stand out or was the overall feeling that the book gave you? It was the overall feeling that the book gave me. And it goes through the history of seals and how they came to be and just the operations that they ran in Vietnam and just how out of the box and unconventional they really were. And just a little history

on the seals, you know, back in Vietnam, they were looked at as this rag tag, a bunch of guys that would go out in their jeans and bandoliers strapped around their chest and go out and get work done. And it just seems from the culture to the stories, just to the training, I said, that's it. I found a place. I found a home. You know, it's really fascinating because I think a lot of people read books when they're younger that influence them. But it's not that often that you hear someone reads a book and becomes a Navy seal. So when you go into the U.S. Navy in May of 2004, you know, you go through the Buds program, was there any question in your mind at that point that you were going to complete the program?

Because I know that's an incredibly hard, grueling program to put your body through. Well, it's interesting that you ask that question. And I'll give you, I guess, two answers here. When I graduated Bud's training, my father was standing next to me. I was 24 years old at that point. And my father looked at me and said, Bobby, listen, I had no doubt that you would graduate seal training, but me and your mother didn't think that you'd graduate college.

So that kind of lets you know what kind of person I was. They didn't think that I'd graduate college, and they always knew that I'd become a seal. When it came to going out to Buds in Coronado and going through training, I entered that training knowing this was the lifelong. long dream, and I was either leaving two ways, a seal or in a body bag, and that was it. For our audience that maybe doesn't know as much about buds, explain a little bit about how that tests you physically and mentally. Sure. It breaks down into three phases, and the first

phase is just the physical aspect of it. And, you know, it's funny, all these companies out there, you know, Facebook and all these companies that want to build team unity, spend millions and millions of dollars on, you know, getting their teams to perform better. And in Buds, you get there. And my boat crew, which is the guys that you paddle with in the beginning of Buds, was seven guys. And we had a graduate from Princeton, a gangbanger from Chicago. You had me from Jersey. You know, all of these different backgrounds. And they put you in the boat and they give you paddle. And they say paddle. And you're paddling into waves that are six to eight to ten feet high. And you either make it work. You become a team and paddle so you don't wipe out or you go away. And so that was the very

basic beginning of learning the skill set of, hey, a small team can be mighty and powerful. And so you're on this small team. But the overall Buds program, if I'm not mistaken, it starts as 200 guys, 150 guys. Yeah. So my class started with 168 guys. And when we graduated six and a half months later there was 21 left. So you go from 168 to 21. And let's pretend for a second, you're the scout, day one, you know, looking at all 168 people. What attributes do you think would most predict the 21 that come out the other side? Is it the strongest guys? Is it the toughest guys? Is it unpredictable who's got that sort of deep willpower? You know, they've run tests and they've tried to predict that.

And I would say it is the most unpredictable number you can come up with. If somebody looked at me, they would never say, oh, that guy's a seal. They just wouldn't. Now, you have those guys out there that look the part, but you just can't look at a guy before he starts training on day one and say he's going to quit or he's going to make it. because you don't know what you have inside of you until you're put through those six months of hell. And at some point, you just make that mental decision. Your mindset switch changes.

And you say, I'm going to do this or I'm going to die trying. That's it. And over the course of those six months, is there a big moment where you see like a major drop off in, you know, you go from 168 to 100 all of a sudden after the first month? Or is it all happened at the end? where do people break so in first phase they have something called hell week and forgive me it's it's been a while my mesmering is fuzzy i can't remember when hell week is it's during the first phase so i think you you it's four weeks in or five weeks in i can't remember um but that is where a lot of the

attrition takes place and that's where the instructors keep you up for five days and if you're lucky and you perform really well during those five days you may get to sleep you know three hours or or three and a half hours, just depending if your boat crew does really well. But during that time frame, you start to see, you start to look around and see right around Wednesday who is going to make it through training because the guys that are going to make it through have that look in their eye. And yeah, it sucks. And yeah, it's not fun and it's miserable and you haven't slept in three days.

You're eating cold chow and all those things. But they have this look of just, I don't know, almost happiness because they know they're doing what they want to do. And some of those guys were prior sailors on a boat and just not living the life that they wanted to. And now they're going through bloods training. And you look back on it and you're with your friends. You know, at this point, you're with your friends. It's Wednesday night at hell week. And you're like, I'm either going to die or get through this week. And that's kind of where it all starts. It's really amazing. And I can only imagine like the bonding it creates when you're going through some of these exercises, what for you were some of the exercises or pain techniques

that it seemed like it was easier for you to overcome than the people around you? You know, you've got sleep deprivation. You've got insane training when it comes to running or weights. You've got all the different water exercises, swimming. I know there's like various drown yourself exercises. Which of those did you feel like came naturally and which were the ones where you were like, I got to really get through this. Well, it's funny enough because I am about to go run 100 miles, but I was never a runner. I'm still not a runner. In fact, I don't think I'll ever call myself a runner, but I did grow up, you know,

competitively swimming. Well, some people would say I wasn't too competitive and I really wasn't. I only, you know, I made it through a D3 program collegially. And, you know, so I always and will always feel comfortable in the water. But anything outside of that, you know, as a swimmer, you have to learn how to run. run, you have to, you know, learn how to run in soft sand, all those things that I didn't do in the water. So any evolution that involves swimming, I would be happy and it was easy for me. But anything that involved land stuff, I was in, in a world of pain. That's interesting. I've heard that,

I've heard that some people have the, like the opposite where they come in, you know, as these like very natural runners, college D1 athletes, and then they just get crushed, crushed in the water. What are some of the things that it takes for a Navy SEAL to be able to do in the water that most people would just totally drown from or not be able to do. Well, water is one of those things. Any water evolution that you go through when you're in buds has to be, you know, it's a methodical, it's a methodical thing. And what I mean by that is that if you get in the water and you were a great runner and you're just trying to gur your way, you're trying to muscle your way through the swim, you're going to lose every single time because the water just you don't flow you know you're crashing

through the water where you're looking to flow so when you're doing the side stroke you don't swim freestyle in buds you swim this thing called combat side stroke and i know guys that didn't even know how to swim before they got to buds training and they learned a couple weeks beforehand and i guess that's a good thing because you don't have any bad habits but if if i had to give a kid any advice or anybody going through any sort of military selection when it came to learning the combat side stroke, it's you have to be smooth and you have to be long and smooth and just not worry about, oh, am I going to get there or not? Yeah, you have to worry about your time. But the first thing you want to focus on is that technique. And that's just long, slow strokes through the water,

kicking, finning, and just making sure you're not guring yourself. Because if you do that, you're not going to burn yourself out where if, you know, you're trying to muscle your way through the water, the water's going to win every single time. After six months of this program to become a Navy SEAL, you learn things like combat side stroke. And we're going to talk about that a little bit in a little bit when we go into this amazing event that you're about to compete in. How much do you feel that this six-month program, you know, actually prepared you to go into combat as a Navy SEAL versus, like, in terms of teaching you something like combat side stroke, it seems like literally you'd have to know how to do that in order to a Navy SEAL versus like in terms of teaching you something like combat sidestroke. it seems like literally you'd have to know how to do that in order to approach, you know, enemy territory in some circumstances.

How much of it was literally learning things like combat side stroke versus, okay, you just have to have a mindset of never give up, continue no matter what? I would say it's the latter. Nothing prepares you to go to war, quote unquote, and I say it that way because, you know, that's a very hard thing to define. You know, Buds is a selection process. It's not the course that you go through to learn tactics, if you will. I think looking back on it at where I am in my life now, it teaches you a certain mindset

and it teaches you as a young man going through the training that it doesn't matter what is thrown your way. It doesn't matter what the hell comes out of the gate. You're going to get over it. You're going to get past it. It's going to suck. But you're with your buddies. You're with your friends.

And when things are completely miserable, you're going to look at each other and you're going to laugh. And that doesn't matter if you're in the surf for three hours and you're jack hammering cold. You're just going to look at your buddy and start giggling. And I think that translates to when, you know, you're overseas in a real world environment, you start getting shot at. You're still looking at your buddies just kind of giggling and saying, all right, let's go to work. So I don't think Buds was the tactical side of things. It was just that mental reconditioning. It was just sharpening that piece of iron to getting.

a guy to a point where you knew if that guy went through buds, you knew that guy was not going to quit no matter what happened or what situation you found yourself in. It must be amazing the people that you've befriended through just the experience of being a Navy SEAL

and that mindset. How much do you think that has shaped who you are as a man? Just the people who are part of that program. It has shaped me. There's not an aspect in my life. that hasn't been touched in some way, shape, or form from me going through buds, you know, from being a dad to being, you know, just a man in general, you know, to being a good father.

Like, it just all translates because there are lessons that you learn in your life about yourself that you're only going to learn, you know, after you've been up for four and a half days and you don't want to take any more steps or you don't want to eat any more food or, you know, your buddies are depending on you to stay awake during watch. It's just that, just going to that level of just this absolutely sucks and seeing what you're made out of. That shaped me in everything that I do. And the friendships that I've made out of that, you know, it happens all the time. A guy will call you after you haven't seen him after three, four, 15, 10 years. I had a guy email me that I hadn't seen in 14 years and he was like, hey man, I heard you're up in Boston, hit me up. And it's just like, yep, no problem. And you don't even think about it. It is a, lifetime full of friendships and and those aren't those shallow ones that you're like hey we're buddies and you like stuff on Facebook or Instagram those are some people that you can call no matter what at three in the morning and be like hey I need to you know bring a shovel type of thing so it's valuable I don't think you can get that in any other culture so okay in 2005 right

you're stationed in Virginia you become a seal lead communicator and You start, I would imagine, like going on real combat missions. What for you was it like on that first mission? How did that experience feel? Did it feel like things were really sped up? Did it feel like, you know, you had just been so prepared that everything had slowed down and you were just excited to be out there? You know, were there ever a moment where you kind of were like,

I can't believe this is actually happening and this is what I'm doing with my life. And this is, you know, how I can serve this country. So when I was in the teams, I was a communicator. So I was a radio guy, you know, like in the movies where you see the guy carrying the big radio on his back. So that's what I did in the beginning of my career. And, you know, my first deployment, I, my first deployment wasn't all that eventful. So I remember, I remember being at that point where everything was coming together. And it was a little later on. I can't remember what year exactly it was. But, you know, I remember being in that situation where, oh, okay, these people are trying to hurt me and this is, this is real. And I remember being at that point and just thinking to myself, oh, they're, they're shooting at me. And here's what I need to do. It was very calm. I was very uneventful. It wasn't one of those things where, you know, time slowed down or fast, you know, or got real fast. I just, it was just like, well, that's it. And I think people take that in in different ways. But I know,

for me, it was just like, oh, this is what's going on. Here's what I need to do and you need to get it done. So it wasn't a very eventful period. It was just I had been trained really well. And the mentors that I had in my life as far as, you know, in the SEAL teams, they just fulfill you so well that you just react from muscle memory at that point. You frame being attacked by people who want to hurt you in a very calming way. I'm curious, like so much of what we've talked about is this mindset of becoming a Navy. seal and kind of what that stood for to you as you know really as a as a young man growing up and yet we haven't talked that much about the combat side of it and actually this concept of you're firing at other people you're competing against other people you want to you know do damage and harm right how naturally did that sort of evolve from just being part of this community and understanding the greater the greater cause and how much of it was like a challenge that you felt like mentally you needed to overcome. Okay, I need to go out and shoot people and do my job. Well, you look at anything that I think we do on a daily basis and it becomes routine.

And what I mean by that is, you know, business is business. It's not personal. It's not personal at all. It's just business and that's what I do. And, you know, whether I'm in Virginia Beach or, you know, wherever I was shooting at paper targets or overseas somewhere not shooting at paper targets, again, it's not personal. It's just business. And that's what I do. So I never had an issue or a problem adjusting or adapting to that because, again, it comes back to training. It doesn't matter what you're pointing at, what you're pointing your gun at. You're just, you're going to work. So, you know, I think you see that across the board, even outside of the military community, whether it's a football player trying to crush quarterback or, you know, an MMA fighter trying to knock somebody out because he wants the win. You know, it's not personal, it's just business, and that's what we're doing. So I never looked at it as a personal thing. And if you ever did get to that point where for something happened, where you were taking things personal, I think it's on the operator, you know, as to take himself out of that equation, because you cannot look at, you know, combat as a personal thing. It's business. It's not personal, and you need to make those decisions based on that. Well, we're going to talk a little bit about

some of the things that, you know, using WOOP data allows athletes to do, tactical athletes to do, you know, as you know with WOOP, there's so many different things from a data standpoint that you can monitor and learn from and react to. I'm curious, I mean, this is a period of your, the period of your life that we're talking about right now, you didn't have a lot of data on your body. And what kinds of things were you doing to sort of check in with yourself, you know, whether it was before a deployment or whether it was getting ready for a workout or just keeping up with your buddies, like to stay calm, to get fired up. What sorts of techniques were you using

or data were you using at that time? I mean, there really was none. When it comes to the metrics, when it comes to the data, you know, as an operator that was going overseas, you know, over and over again, there was no, there was nothing I could look at to let me know that I was ready, whether that was physically or mentally. And it's one of those things where, you know, just like any other, you know, vertical, meaning, you know, whether it's professional sports or, you know, performing in the boardroom, it's one of those things where you just kind of winged it. And, you know, I think with experience, just like an athlete would, you kind of know your left and right flank, if you will, when it comes to performing day in and day out night after night as you go out

on operations, but I did not have anything that I could depend on every day to let me know, okay, you shouldn't work out today because you're in the red or you should work out today because you're in the green. And, you know, I think we'll probably talk a little bit more about that later, but there was nothing that I could wear, there was nothing that I had that would let me know that I'm ready to go and I was ready to perform at an optimal level. And I wish there was because there was, you know, it would have been a game changer back then. Did you ever get into meditation or different forms of breathing in terms of preparation? I always have been into meditation, you know, so on those deployments, I would try and meditate

at least, you know, 10 to 25 minutes a day, just depending how disciplined I was being. And that always helps. But again, it's one of those things where I just had to trust myself and know that it helps. But I was never seeing anything back. there was never any biofeedback that was coming back to me saying, okay, you meditating for 25 minutes a day, or maybe you should meditate for 45 minutes a day, just because that will, you'll perform that much better. So I did get into meditation. That was definitely one of those things. Visualization was another big one that I still use to this day. Those two things, meditation and visualization,

have always been a big part of my life, especially when it came to operating. How about stimulants? Would you ever take certain drugs or cats? caffeine or something to get you like say you had to stay awake for three days or a week or you know would you guys ever take stuff to try to perform at a higher level in that regard there's these things called rippets and uh it's an energy drink so i think of like a poor man's red bull but um you know so i would drink rippets overseas and if there's any veterans listening to this i'm sure they're giggling or laughing because everybody has heard of like the rippet challenge and all that stuff but uh so but beyond that and embarrassingly i i never

drank coffee. I didn't drink coffee until I was about a year out of the Navy. So I never drank coffee on deployments or anything like that. I started roasting it, but that's a different story for a different time. So, you know, I just ripets and a little bit of coffee, but beyond that, that was it. Okay. What is the rippets challenge? You really teased that. Different, different teams would have different challenges, but it would, it would, it essentially would be a new guy has to drink, you know, 25 rippets before he goes out on an op and, and see if he could keep himself together and stuff like that. So, you know, we would have guys pretty jacked up on caffeine. So that was always fun. So 25, 25 ripets, that's what,

25 cups of coffee or something? I can't, they're small. They're real small. They're not very big. But, you know, guys would, you know, they're in the small cans. And I can't remember the fluid ounces that are actually in a ripet, but it's a lot of caffeine. It's a lot of caffeine. It probably wasn't, again, not the best thing to do before you're supposed to go out and work and, you know, be a tactical team. What were some other forms of friendly hazing within the SEAL community? Oh, man. Well, things changed. Things changed, especially when I was as I was growing up in the teams, but a favorite of a lot of, different guys in the teams were his duct tape, if you will, so you would tape a guy from

his feet all the way up to his head and, you know, maybe push him down the steps or maybe putting them on a stretcher and rolling them down the steps attached to a stretcher or something like that. So it was a lot of the teams varied and I don't want to get anybody in trouble here, but all that was, I thought, was good for the team and bonding because everybody goes through it. It's all out of love and kind of makes you better on the back end. And I imagine that tied to, you obviously, over the course of your career, you became a leader as well. And, you know, you started to manage people. What was that shift like for you from being an individual contributor to being an individual contributor and an leader, if you will,

within a team? It was terrible. And the reason I say that was because now you didn't just have to care about you. You had to care about everybody else. And I say that, you know, it's a double-edged sword because you work really hard to get to a point of leadership where guys are looking at you for, hey, what do we do and how do we do this? But it's a massive mindset shift. And the reason I say that is, you know, you're no longer taking care of yourself. You're taking care of, you know, eight other guys or four other guys as depending if it's a squad or platoon, just, you know, what responsibilities you have. So, you know, their problems become your problems and their weaknesses become your weaknesses and their strengths become. your strengths. So as a leader, and when you get to that point in the teams where you're,

you know, they trust you enough to actually lead guys, you are the guy. You know, you are, those new guys are going to come into a team and look to you for advice, whether it's, you know, being at home or, or, you know, going overseas. And so it's a massive responsibility. And, you know, it's something that I didn't take lightly. And it's something that was a, was a really important time in my life because I worked hard to get to that point. And I'd like to think I did a good job, but I don't know. So I want to transition a little bit and talk about your experience with whoop because it's been fun for me getting to know you because we met in a very natural way in that you were a whoop user and someone who found value in the technology. And then one thing

led to another and now we have the chance to work together, which is really incredibly good for me and for WOOP as a whole. So talk to me a little bit just like how you got introduced to the technology and what excites you about it? Well, you know, backing up before I even got on the platform, before I got on Woop and started seeing that story that it gave me was, you know, towards the latter half of my career, I was using, you know, different things to try and track my HRV. We were getting smarter in the teams, you know, using some other stuff out there where you'd have to strap a gazillion things of your chest and breathe and then not breathe. And it just, it just wasn't sustainable for, for anybody that was going to be serious about training or just optimization in general. And when I got introduced to the platform, I had committed to, you know, running, you know, doing the Spectre series event, the first annual one.

And, you know, my buddy Johnny said, okay, listen, you got to put this thing on your wrist. And it's, it's going to, you know, it's going to change the way you see things. I'm like, whatever. I don't believe you. We've been down this road before. You know, we've been introduced to all these wearable technologies and, and all that stuff. And I was naive. I was naive. I didn't even know what a whoop was. And once I put this, once I put the whoop strap on, I started seeing a story unfold in front of me every day. And that's where I, I just said, wow, I cannot believe that this thing is telling me exactly how much I slept and my HRV and my recovery score and my strain. So it was a complete game changer. And to parallel that, I was starting to train for this 100-mile that we're about to do. So I was putting in some massive long hours running, swimming, and then also lifting. And I could actually see how everything was affecting me from start to finish. So it completely changed how I looked at training.

completely changed how I trained over the last four months to get ready for this event. Well, it's awesome to hear that. And just for our audience listening, who might be unfamiliar, HRV is heart rate variability, which is, you know, in my opinion, one of the single most important things that WOOP has been able to effectively bring to, you know, your analysis in very simple terms and without needing an electrocardiogram or a chest strap. And it's hurry variability is this fascinating lens into your autonomic nervous system, which, you know, has all kinds of indications around stress and recovery and overall how ready your body is to take on stress. So that's HRV. And Mo, I'm sure you're referencing, you know, some goofy contraptions involving chest straps and electrocardiograms in terms of capturing, in terms of capturing that statistic.

exactly so you've now been on whoop for how long i've been in whoop on whoop for about four and a half months so the whole workup through this um to get me ready to run this hundred miles and if you think about the technology how do you think it can benefit in particular the uh the military community well from the military standpoint you know there are so many things that you don't have control of. You know, an operator does not have control of when he can go to sleep sometimes or the food that he's going to eat. You know, there's not just a whole food down the corner from where we have these deployed men and women. But, you know, what you can control is, you know, the amount, hopefully, you know, the response that your body has from different evolutions when it comes to training. So if you're

going to go out and be up for three days, at least you're going to know how your body is going to react to that, but not only that, but how it's going to recover and how long it's going to take before you can go out and train really hard again. And there are, there's not something, I don't think there's anything out there. In fact, I know there's nothing out there that is more user-friendly from an operator standpoint because you have that data in front of you at all times, meaning it's, it's, you know, coming from your phone or if you want to log in on the computer. So when it comes to military operators, you know, the child's not always going to be great. sleep's not always going to be great. You're going to be in a stressful environment, probably,

I don't know, 12 hours a day because you're going through a training cycle and you're getting, you know, ready to go overseas. With all that being said, you have to have something that is measuring your, your body and how you respond to all that. And I feel, and I know, and I've seen it, you know, that the, the Woopstrap does that. Well, it's been awesome for me to see the adoption pick up in the tactical sector for whoop and you know in so many ways it gets back to why i found the company in the first place which is that there's people out there who are putting incredible stress on their body who need to be able to to monitor that stress and to recover appropriately and you know so i i feel a great honor in the fact that our technology can

serve men and women like you so it's it's really been a pleasure working with that with that whole military community, and I know we're going to continue to invest in that segment as a business. I want to transition and talk about the Spector series, which you've now been training for. And just as some quick background for our audience, why don't you tell people what the Spector Series is? So this is the first year that we're doing in Spector Series. And Spector Series came out of a need to just not be average. You know, in our community, as you can imagine, the SEAL community, you know, there's nothing average about, you know, a SEAL operator.

And when you transition out of the Navy, you are really shaking hands and saying goodbye to a brotherhood. And I know that we're always together no matter what, but you miss that day-to-day interaction when it comes to, you know, just being a part of a team. And of course, you know, life goes on. So you have to get a civilian job and you have to, you know, take care of your family and, and you, you know, you have to transition and go from there. Well, what myself and a bunch of other guys in the SEAL teams learn from transitioning is that the transition, you know, hands down is probably one of the hardest things I've ever done. Leaving the military and joining the civilian population and getting a job and just transitioning and learning all the things that you just didn't know is, but. by far the hardest thing ever for us. And the reason that it is, is I'd rather be in a firefight than put a suit and tie on and say,

hey, my name's Robert Mueller, and here's my resume. And the reason I say that is because I was 37, 36 years old. And my resume was written in crayon. I didn't have one. So, you know, that's the truth. So the SEAL Future Fund was started by, you know, he's one of the co-founders. He's named Johnny Wilson. And he realized that he left SEAL team, one of the SEAL teams and went to go work at Goldman Sachs, missed the SEAL team so much, went back into the SEAL teams and is now out of the SEAL teams completely.

And as a co-founder of the SEAL Future Foundation, he realized that the transition was hard for not just himself, but for me and other guys. And he started this nonprofit organization to help guys with the transition. And if you think about the event itself, right, we've got, you've got three veteran seals, including you're going to skydive from 12,000 feet into the Pacific Ocean, you're going to swim three miles to shore, and then you're going to run 100 miles around the California coastline with 20 pound plates on your back. So let's just back up for a second and start by saying, why why is this so insanely difficult as you say that i'm sitting here thinking like man that that sounded like a great idea and by the way most two days out from doing this so there's no going back no no nor what i think there would be but you know you you put yourself really into this is a very hard uh which is again a gross understatement so from a training standpoint you

know, what were some of the things that you thought about and how long have you been training for this? So I've been training for this for about four and a half months. And, you know, again, you go back to the basics, going back to Buds, you knew that the next six months of your life was just going to suck. And that's the end of it. And when we transition out and since we transition out, we want to give back to the community still. And, you know, there's a certain romance for us when it comes to just a self-beating. And we know that this is going to be. And we know that this is going to be terrible. And we know that it's going to break the body down and all those things. But if I can give back to the community, if I can help another transitioning seal with making the

right decisions by running 100 miles and swimming two miles in the Pacific, I'll do that. I'll do that every day because that's what it's all about. It's all about taking care of the brotherhood and the guys around you. So that's kind of why we're doing this. Now, in my mind, I think we talked about this before Will and Johnny's mind as well, anybody can generally out of an airplane. Anybody can jump out of an airplane and swim two miles. Anybody can run 100 miles. But when you put it together and you add, you know, 20 pound plates in the water and 25 pound plates on land, that makes it a little bit more difficult. Again, we don't celebrate mediocrity. Nobody likes that. So if we're going to do something and we're going to go through the ringer,

we're going to make sure it sucks. And, you know, that's why we're doing it. So as far as training goes, it was a lot of running, a lot of swimming. But more importantly, I can honestly sit here and tell everybody that I would have overtrained for this event if it wasn't for the whoop strap because I listened to my body and I listened to the data because, you know, the data doesn't lie because it's taking, you know, your metrics every day. And when I was in the green, I felt it. When I was in the red, I felt it. And it was just an amazing tool to use for this training, you know, that's going to, you know, this event that's going to take place in two days. So for our WOOP members who use WOOP every day, what were some of the things that you were

you were looking at? So from a strain standpoint, you know, I imagine you're starting to do, you must have been building your strain over time. What kind of a strain cadence were you looking at on a daily basis? Were you regularly getting above 15, 16, 17 strain? Yeah, for the run days, I would typically be over. over 16 easily. So I had one, so on Wednesdays, we'd run mid, like really long, not long distance. We would run about seven to 10 to 12 miles during the training period. And then on Saturdays and Sundays, you know, we peaked at 30 miles on Saturday and 18 miles on Sunday. So those were the big days when it came to running. And on those Wednesdays, I would usually be in the 17 to 18 for a day strain.

And then for those weekends on Saturday, I would be, you know, 20.6, 20 point, right around 20.5. And then on Sundays, I would be in the 20s as well. But the fascinating thing of all that was I, before I left came out to San Diego, I did some of the same runs that I did four and a half months prior. And I compared my strain score and my strain score, the same run that I did in the beginning of training, I was at like 20.5.5. I was at like 15.6 right before I left. So that was such a cool thing to see being on the platform because same run almost it was even cooler. So I ran it when it was a little hotter. But minus that variable, you know, I could tell that I had, you know, completely changed my system personally to where I can, you know, intake more strain just from the training than I was doing.

That's fascinating. So for the people listening who don't, who aren't on WOOP, what, what most describing is as he got fitter doing the same exact run yielded a lower strain so whoops measuring your strain 24-7 and you can look at different periods of time to see how much strain was put on your body and the whole scale is out of 21 so if you're putting you know 20 or 20.5 strain on your body you are like crushing your body I ran the Boston marathon and I got a 19.9 so just to put that in perspective the fact that he's doing uh you know a 20.4 as a training day just shows the unbelievable load that he's putting on his body.

Now, the fact that Mo, you were able to turn what was at one point over a 20 into a run that felt like a 15 strain on whoop, that's pretty fascinating. So that's really encouraging. From a sleep standpoint, how much sleep have you been trying to get? Are you someone who, you know, from your time as a seal just naturally doesn't need as much sleep? Or as you've gotten older, have you invested more in sleep? How do you think about it?

Well, as before I was on whoop, I was like, eh, whatever, it doesn't matter. And I was probably sleeping and looking at the numbers. You know, I was sleeping probably four and a half hours to five hours a night. Right. And when I got on the platform, you know, I tried to maintain that. But, you know, that's another fascinating thing about the platform is that it's the behavior modification that you get out of this is, hey, if I sleep for another hour and a half. So let's just say I take my, you know, my sleep period from five and a half hours to seven, you know, sleeping a little bit more, I'm that much more prepared for the next day and the next training evolution. And that's what I found.

So I went from sleeping maybe four and a half hours to five hours a night to now four and a half months later, sleeping seven and a half hours to eight hours. And it's because I didn't want to wake up and not see my recovery score be green because I'm like, I'm not, I'm not failing here. I'm not going to be in the red and I'm going to be recovered. And the only way for me to do that really was increase my sleep. Well, as you've been going through this grueling training, it'd be interesting to know what kind of recovery modalities you like or you invest in. So these are just some quick, different recovery modalities that we see all sorts of different athletes using. I'll just run through them and you tell me if you used them or you've tried them and didn't like them or how you think about them. The foam roller. Do you use a foam roller?

I used to, but not anymore. Have you ever used the Norma Tech technology? I have. I use it every day, and I've used it every day for the last four months, and it's one of my best friends. Yeah, I think it's really good. How about compression suits? I use compression suits, but I'm a really hot sleeper, and it's just uncomfortable for me. So I found that once I got on the whoop platform, that I would just wake up too much because of me just running hot. So I've since not, I don't use them anymore. Okay.

How about a hypervolt or a therogun, those machines that effectively massage you? Yes. And that's the reason why I don't use foam rollers anymore is because the guys over at Thuragun were cool enough to let us use this, you know, preparing for the race. And that has been a game changer for for me. You know, I use that every day and once in the morning and once before I go to bed. And it's a massive difference in how I feel, you know, throughout the day and then my next training session. I've recently started using the hypervolt, which is similar technology. Right.

And I've also seen a benefit. It's kind of amazing that, you know, these products didn't exist like a few years ago because it seems fairly obvious in hindsight now using it. cryotherapy that's another thing that i try and do every day so every day cryo every day almost and if i can twice a day so i am a huge believer in it um you know i'm one of those guys that walks around pretty inflamed you know all the time and depending on my diet and i have found that you know those three things norma tech the thuragun and cryotherapy have been you know even before i was you know training for this event. Those three things have been one of the best recovery modalities that I've found, and I've pretty much done them all at this point. I want to expand a little on that. So do you do

the full body cryo once or twice a day? Are you focused on a specific area of the body? I've done both. And when I was having problems with my knee when I was training for the Spectre series, I did spot cryo on my knee. But yes, I do both. And I'm usually in the full body. So much so. that I'll actually bend down in the tank. So, you know, obviously your head sticks out in the cryout tank. So I'll hold my breath and bend down and try and just cover my whole body when I'm in there. Classic seal move. Just make it a little bit more badass. It's like when I do it, I do feel fairly cold. But I bet you're totally in your element in there. Do you do it for three minutes or longer? Three minutes. So I'll only do it for three minutes and, you know, I'll wait maybe

20 minutes, just depending on what I have going on. So typically, if I have it, if I do my, my classic way of doing that would be in the chamber, do Norma Tech on my legs, and then get back in the chamber before I leave. So that's typically what I do. Wow, that's interesting. I haven't done that, but I'm going to try that now. Massage therapy. I love, I love that modality as far as recovery goes, but I'm really particular about, you know, just finding the right person to get that done. And I had a fantastic girl in Virginia Beach, and we've been friends and, you know, she worked on me for years. But since I moved away from Virginia Beach, I just got away from it and chose cryo instead. Yeah, I mean, I hear that a lot from some of our professional athletes where it's not really

a question of whether massages can be good. It's just a question of whether the masseuse is good at giving massages. Yeah, and I think, yeah. The person who knows your body. Exactly. You got to find that person. And once you find that person, you never let them go, but distance, you know how it is. Okay, how about acupuncture? I did a lot of acupuncture when I was in college, and I think for the, so I can only speak for myself. I love it. I think it's great. It's really effective for my upper body, but what I found was it's not for some, for whatever reason, I don't feel as recovered when it comes to my lower body, so my legs.

So I think it's great. I think it's fantastic. I use it when I was swimming in college, but it doesn't really do much for me when I'm running. Okay, how about ice bath, contrast therapy, sauna, steam, hot cold. I, you know, it's great. I love the cold. I love the hot. You know, I think getting into an ice bath after, you know, a workout, I mean, you know,

you can read the studies and I'm sure you have. You can see an increase of, you know, HGH and all those other things. And then also you see the reverse on that when it comes to sauna. I haven't, I haven't dabbled too much in, you know, anything with heat, you know, putting yourself in a hot room as far as sauna treatments go, but I have done the cold baths, the ice baths, and all those things, and I think they're great. But what's undeliminated that, because let's be honest, somebody with my background, it's like, I'm not taking a cold shower. I hate that. Or I'm not getting in a cold bath because it just sucks. And getting 10, 25 pounds

of ice and throwing in the bathtub is just not fun for me anymore. So that's why I turn to cry out because I know the benefits of it, but I'd rather be in a chamber for three minutes than staying in an ice bath for 18. Yeah, I think that's just good math right there. How about cupping or e-stem? I think I've done cupping. I actually did that for the first time a few months ago. I think it's super beneficial, but I feel it's the same way as, you know, masseuse.

You really have to work with somebody repeatedly and consistently in order for them to know your body and know your trouble spots and how your body response to the cupping in order for it to be effective. It's absolutely effective. I think it's a great recovery modality. You just got to work with the same person. Okay. And how about napping? Do you believe in napping? Do you ever nap? Has that changed over time? It has. And I wasn't a big believer in naps until, you know, Kristen over at Woop was like, hey, if you're going to run, you know, 30 miles in a day or 25 miles in a day, it would really benefit you if you took a nap. And I can't remember what Saturday it was, but it was probably a month and a half ago where, you know, I put 25 miles in and I was lucky enough that I could actually

shut my eyes for about an hour. And my recovery score the next day when I had to run 15 miles was at like 96. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe the benefit of just like an hour-long nap. So I take it that's something you're going to do a little bit of leading up to the event or Are you just too amped up at this point? No, I think I'm going to try and get a nap in, but there's just so much stuff going on with, you know, what we, in our timelines and whatnot. I'll absolutely try and get a nap in, but I also have a three-year-old kiddo, so it's not easy to get a nap in when he's running around and wanting to hang out. Okay, well, so obviously we're recording this before the event, and I'm excited to have you back on after the event to sort of post-game everything about it. let's talk a little bit about just your expectations and maybe I guess we can break this down

by each stage so all right first off skydiving from 12,000 feet into the Pacific Ocean is that just a piece of cake for you at this point yeah I mean there's there's so many things that go into a jump you know we'll be at 14 5 so it'll be 14,500 okay so we'll be a little higher so we'll be a little higher, but, you know, it's one of those things. It's, it's work, you know, so I've done it hundreds of times, and so it's not one of those things that, of course, I think about it and you have to think about your emergency procedures when you're up in the bird, but, you know, in case something goes wrong under parachute, but, you know, it's, that's probably the easiest part. And what's the difference between skydiving into an ocean versus skydiving onto land? The procedures are a little

different when you get closer to the water, but there's really nothing different. You're still going through the same procedures as far as, you know, flaring and hitting the water. And, you know, obviously when you hit the water, you're going to make sure that you don't get tangled up in your shoot or it gets wrapped around your body parts, you know, your feet or anything like that as you're trying to file the canopy out and getting, you know, some air. But it's, I actually read in, I remember I was reading a book about World War II. And they said that was like one of the biggest issues or causes of death in World War II was when people hit the water parachuting, like getting tangled in their parachutes. So it sounds like that's not as easy as you guys make it out to be. Well, I can't even

I mean, in that environment during what was going on, you know, I can't even imagine. But, you know, this is a pretty, it's just, it's something we've trained for numerous times. So I feel really good about it. Okay. So you hit the water. Now you're swimming three miles. to shore. What kind of equipment you can have on your body and talk a little bit about the combat side stroke? Right. So just like we would if we were going through a training evolution in the SEAL teams, we're jumping in. When we jump out of the airplane, we'll have, we'll be rigged for water. So we're going to have our plates on. And that's, so we don't drown or so we don't sink. That's going to be made neutral by foam. So, you know, I think, you know, typical foam. So we're going to have plates on,

but we're still going to be neutral when it comes to us being in the water and you, you test that beforehand, so you'll jump in the pool and make sure that you actually don't sink to the bottom. And then we'll have fins and then a mask and we'll do the combat side stroke for three miles. So that's pending the current, which we're doing, you know, current calculations as we speak to make sure that we don't, we don't get sweeped off to Tijuana or something like that. It should be, it should be easy. It should be good. And, and the, the, the, the fins and all this stuff. Like, you have to put that on when you hit the water or some of that's actually on you

when you're parachuting down. We'll have it on when we parachute down. Okay, got it. So you hit the water and then you release the parachute and then you start swimming just like that. Right, right. Go right into the swim. So we're trying to treat it as close to a work jump as, a military jump as possible. Okay.

So then you swim three miles and you come up on, well, actually, let's go back for something. Comback Side Stroke. How is that different than freestyle? So it's a lower profile. So think freestyle where your arm, both your arms are continually coming out of the water, where the combat side stroke is where one arm is coming out of the water and you're trying to keep a low profile. So, you know, obviously if you're, you know, trying to be sneaky, if you will, through the water, you don't want your arms failing as as you get close to, you know, boat or the shore. So this minimizes your profile to keep you very low. low pro and you that's how we do it and as you know during your time as a seal would swimming three

miles combat side stroke be a normal distance would that be shorter than normal longer than normal it's average i look forward to it i think that's going to be for me again because i'm so comfortable in the water because i've been lucky yeah it's just a calming it's i get to be in the ocean again with with three of my buddies or two of my buddies and we're swimming side stroke in san diego so it's a good day for me. Tell me about the two bodies of yours that are doing this with you. So one is a, so he is a veteran seal. He transitioned similar to the time that I did. Then also, one is actually still active. So I can't, you know, say his name here on the podcast. But, you know, he feels very strongly about what we're doing and want to support us. And even though

he's active, he's like, I don't care, guys, I'm in. We're doing this. So it's been, it's been great working with them. And they have made things. made things easy sometimes and they've made things hard. But I believe last time I was in the Woop office, people are taking, the staff at Woopers is taking bets on who's going to not make it. I'm not betting against any one of you guys. I'll take, I'll take all three of you guys finishing. Okay, so you get up to shore and now we've just got a casual 100 miles ahead of us. Exactly. What are you thinking about from a gear standpoint? Are you going to have, you know, some ultra marathon guys, they've got all sorts of stuff strapped to them. Obviously, they don't have

25 pound weights, but that's a separate thing. Right. You know, are you going to have a lot of those goos, like take caffeine? What sorts of things you have on you? So the transition there is going to be critical. Just like in a triathlon, your transition is critical. It's not necessarily so much for time like it would be in a try. But for us, it's one of those things where you're coming out of the ocean. Obviously, you're covered in salt water. And the last thing that you want to do is run 100 miles with yourself covered in salt water because the chafing is going to be massive. So we kind of have to decon there at that point, wash everything off. We actually have a separate set of plates because we don't want to use the wet gear just because

running 100 miles with wet gear is, again, not advisable. So we're going to switch out our gear, make sure we put, we decon ourselves, put on the fresh gear and go. And for me, you know, I'm pretty fat adapted. I wouldn't say like I'm 100% ketosis, all the time. time, but I am pretty fat-adapted. So my plan for this is to sip on, you know, some mixtures here that have a pretty high fat content and, you know, through some of our sponsors. And then I'll be taking goose every five miles. And for me, when I, even if I run, you know,

two miles versus 100, I pour sweat. Once I start, I don't stop. So I'll have a hydration pack on me because I have to drink a significant amount of water to not seize up and become too dehydrated for this. So you've got a water pack around you. You've got goos. Are those going to be in a backpack or in a fanny pack? Yep. It's just going to be, I have kit on.

So since I have kit on, I have different pockets. Okay. So instead of, you know, mags, I have goos. Got it. Yeah, right. What kind of sneakers are you wearing? I'm wearing innovates the Road Clause 275s. And that's what I trained with throughout the training period.

And that's what I'm going to be wearing for this event. Are you going to wear them for all 100 miles? Are you going to swap shoes in any point? I'm going to swap out. I'm going to swap out and put an – so I have the same pair just somewhere older and some are newer. And are you ever going to change your outfit through the run? Are you just going to go with the same kit the whole way? I am – you know, my kit's going to stay the same.

So my – the combat kit that I'm wearing, that will say the same. I will not change that, but I'll be changing clothes. So right around 50 miles, once it's starting. starts to get a little dark, when it starts to get dark, I'm going to transition. And the reason that I'm going to do that is I'd like to go into night with some dry clothes on because nobody goes, nobody likes going into, you know, the temperature drop in San Diego is so significant that I know that I'm going to heat back up again, but I'd rather go get warm and, you know, put some dry clothes on going into the night. So that, yeah, that's a good point. So from a time standpoint, how long do you

expect the overall event to take? If I had to make a guess, and of course, this is being recorded, and I have to come back and answer the man with the time here. But if I had to call it, I'm going to say, you know, originally we said, you know, under 24 hours. And, you know, we did the calculations. We're like, all right, you know, there's a lot of variables there that have to be absolutely perfect. So I will say it's going to take us 33 hours and 47 minutes to get it. 33 hours, 47 minutes. And when you say we, does that mean all three of you have finished within 33 hours and 47 minutes? That's the thing.

That's part of it. You know, like I said, you know, once you're a team, you're always a team. And, you know, even if I feel great, I have to wait for those other two guys, which, you know, and vice versa. So we are running this together. So if one of us has a bad race, we're probably throwing him over our shoulders and we're going to continue running because every single one of us has to finish in order this to be, you know, complete. And so if I'm having a bad, yeah, if I'm if I'm having a bad period or they're having a bad period during the race, it doesn't matter. We're all together and we're going to finish together. Okay, so we've got it, we've got a solid prediction on how long it's going to take. We know that you may have to carry people across the finish line. Do you guys have any bets amongst yourselves that you can share? Yeah, I think every guy has at least told the other two that they're going to quit. And then once they quit, they're going to, you know, they're going to carry them over their shoulder. So I think I was told that I'm going to quit after 25 miles. I told Johnny that he was going to quit

after 30. And the active duty seal, he's like, I don't care. You guys are all all fakes now. And I'm going to make it through and have to carry both of you. So I think that's what's been what's been said. And what are the different ages for you guys? that's a great question i'm 39 johnny is 36 and the active duty seal he's 28 i believe okay so you're you're the veteran i am the oldest i'm the old man and the 29 year old better be uh better be carrying one of you if need be so i think you guys are going to crush it mo i'm going to wish you uh the best of luck this has been an awesome conversation and uh i know you're going to fucking kick ass.

So I'm going to talk to you afterwards. I appreciate that. That was part one of our podcast with Mo. We're about to have him back in one second to talk about his results at the event. If you are not on whoop, you can get on whoop for just $18 a month. It's our lowest offer yet. And you've entered the code Will Ahmed at checkout. That's W-I-L-L-A-H-M-E-D.

we will give you 30 bucks off just for listening to this podcast. That's Will Ahmed at Checkup. Now kicking it back to Mo for part two of the Whoop podcast. Mo, welcome back. Thanks for having you, Will. So everybody finished, and that's the exciting piece. I can't wait to dive in on the event in its totality. Your prediction to complete the event was 33 hours and 47 minutes.

How did that turn out? it turned out pretty close we actually came in at about 32 hours and right around 45 minutes the the 45 minute piece is is me me rounding up but we were definitely under 33 hours and it was right around there so um I was close I can't believe I was that close and um you know I don't think I could have tried predicted that again if I wanted to well that sounds like a pretty amazing outcome and to be clear that includes jumping out of the plane like that's from jumping out of the plane to crossing the finish line 100 miles later. Yeah, that includes the transition, which took us quite a bit of time because we were missing

some gear. And then also, we did some photo ops on the beach with family and stuff like that. So it's everything involved all in all. You know, we were moving for at least 32 hours and 45 minutes. It's amazing. So I want to go through it stage by stage and get a sense for, from your perspective, what were the hard parts about it, what was unexpected? jumping out of the plane, I got to imagine that was more straightforward, given that you've done

that a thousand times in your life? It was, but, you know, it's interesting, and I'll share this with you and everybody that's listening. Of course, you know, I've done it hundreds of times, and there's a certain standard that you have, you know, for yourself and, you know, when you're just conducting air operations. And if you guys actually go to the video that WOOP put out after the Spector series, you see a part where, you know, a guy's jumping out of the airplane and he's flopping around and spinning around. That's me. And so my exit, my exit was absolutely terrible. And again, a little bit more transparency is I lost a fin in midair. And I thought it was one of the, yeah, I thought it was one of the other guys. So I'm in the air falling, trying to get stable.

And I'm looking out until, you know, the distance. And I see a fin. in the air and I'm like, ha ha, somebody lost their fin, glad it wasn't me. And when I got in the water, when I hit the ocean, I realized I was missing one fin. So that was a little bit more eventful than I thought it would be. But, you know, everybody can see that exit via the whoop video that you guys put out. So I thought that was pretty funny that you captured all that. Now, I'm curious, like, I've actually gotten whoop users have sent me data of them jumping out of planes or doing bunch of jumping or something. And their heart rates are totally jacked. Like, they're like, 95% of max heart rate going through one of those types of experience. Did you dissect your

whoop data at all? I'm curious what it looks like when you're jumping out of a plane. I did. And it's interesting because after looking at my data, what I see is my heart rate, you know, my resting heart rate is typically in the 40s, you know, high 40s right now. And it was the same thing during the Spectre series. And on the way up, it spiked to about 110, 112. And while I was in free fall, and this is during the jump and then the practice jumps that we're doing before to prepare for Spectre Series, it goes down to 70. Thinking through that, it's the anticipation and the excitement that I have going up in those casas or those birds that you're in, meaning the airplanes. And when I get under canopy or when I get out of the bird and I'm, you know,

in free fall, that's where I kind of hit, you know, I don't want to say flow state, but that's truly where, you know, I'm at my best. So I think the anticipation is where my heart rate spikes, but I'm sure it wasn't always like that, but after hundreds of jumps, and I'm no jumping expert by any means. I just am comfortable there. Yeah, you've just done it so much. Well, that makes sense. And so, okay, you guys do the swim. Johnny's lagging a little behind. You get onto shore. What next? The transition was, it took longer than I would have liked, but a lot of people showed up for the event. And I don't think any of us really thought anybody would show up as funny as that sounds. So again, like I said, we did some photos and made sure that the, you know, the action was

captured via, via photos and whatnot. Okay. So you're now running. And previously when we were talking, you said you thought the most difficult piece would be the run and you expected the swim would be fun. Is that pretty much how it turned out? The swim was fun. Like I, like I talked about before, you know, I was a, I swam in college and I've been swimming in any time I can get in the Pacific and swim. It's, it's pretty relaxing. The swim or the run, yeah, I mean, that's where the pain started, not immediately, and we can talk about that here in a little bit, but running, preparing your body to run that long, the first thing you want to do because you're excited out of the gate is, you know, hold a eight minute or nine minute mile. And in the beginning of a

hundred miler, you know, you're, the discipline comes in of holding a certain page. And I think that was pretty tough for us when we started out. So did you guys come out of the gates a little too fast and you have to actually pull yourselves back? Yes. We not only came out of the gate extremely fast. None of us had ever run a distance like that before. And our looking back on this, this wasn't smart. But what our plan was was to run 10 minutes at a 14 minute mile pace and then like walk for three and then run for 10.

and I think we would have failed if we kept that pace. And this is just, it's funny how the world works. When we got to the drop zone in San Diego, we met this guy who was preparing the airplane that we jumped out of, never met him before, had no idea who he was. He just knew we were the guys that were going to do this event. He ended up finding us around mile 15 and this guy had run multiple 200-mileers. he was a true ultra marathoner and we told him our plan he's like it's not going to work guys this is what you need to do and so right around 10 miles we adjusted our plan because this

stranger who had run multiple ultras was like okay try seven minutes on three minutes off mean seven minutes of like 14 miles or 14 minute mile and then you know three minutes of walking and we adjusted and that's pretty much what we did for the first I would say 50 51 miles And, you know, so, you know, you're aware and everybody that's listening, the course was 25 miles and then 25 miles back. So we weren't doing a loop. We were doing, you know, out and back track. So we had to go out and back four times to equal four or to equal 100 miles. So, you know, after the first 25 miles, we knew exactly what the course was. But the mental aspect of that was horrible. what was like the darkest thought you had over over the time period were you ever like maybe maybe i'll just call it at 75 or for everybody that's listening you guys have to understand that there was a camera on us probably for 30 something hours and i hate cameras to begin with you know obviously the active duty seal couldn't be on camera johnny's not one for cameras either

and you know for you guys that followed the event you guys were seeing these snapshots and and all these things and this was during the event but that was constant for us so I think the deepest part was having the cameras on all the time and trying to keep it together. But right around the 35 mile mark, I might have wanted to punch a couple people that had cameras. And as we got into, as we got into mile 50, you know, right around that point, I would say the middle of the race, it was, it was nighttime. So when we got back, you know, so when we got to that 50 mile mark, on the mental side of things, this is where things, got really, really interesting, and I guess a little dark and a little deep. You know, I fell asleep

between mile 50 and 60 while I was running. So just to be clear, were you actually still running, but you were asleep? I was. And so I remember it, but it's kind of like zombie. You know, I remember it, but not really. And what would happen is I would fall asleep while I was on my feet and i would keep running but you know eventually i would shut down i'd take a couple steps and i'd start veering off the road and one of those guys would grab me and i was doing the same thing of johnny and we were just running down the road with your eyes closed and i mean i was i was trying to sleep my body was at that point where it's just starting to shut down so it's almost like it's like an exhaustive blackout right you're not because i think technically speaking you can't run and be

asleep at the same time. Yeah. But you, it'd be interesting to look this up, but you went through some form of exhaustion, obviously, where you kind of lost, you know, you lost control of even where you were. Right. And that's where the physical side of things started to happen. It was right around that 50 mile mark.

And obviously, we've been running for, I don't know, I guess, you know, a little more, a little less than 20, 20 hours or 18 hours at that point. but, you know, running back down the strand there in San Diego and Coronado, that's where it started to really take its toll. It was only for a short period of time is between 4 o'clock and about 6 o'clock. And then once that sun came up, it kind of just re-induced, it just put life back into us. But that two-hour time frame, it was just, it was pretty miserable going down and running as a team. Did you hallucinate at all? I've heard from other ultramarathoners that they've gone through, you know, like a woody patch at nighttime.

And next thing they know, they kind of like are having a conversation with a bear or something weird. And it's like, and when they think back on it, they can't even really remember whether it was real or not. Right. Yeah, we did hallucinate. And it's funny that you bring that up because myself and Johnny both had hallucinations. Now, I can't, I can't remember exactly what Johnny saw, but I remember, and this was exactly during the time from that we're talking about right now between mile 50 and 60. is I saw guys coming out of the bushes and they were, um, they were, they were, they were hostile, meaning it wasn't like I was seeing some friendly people coming out of, of the, of the,

of the bushes there. They were what I would consider a threat. And I knew they were hallucin, you know, I knew they were hallucinations, but, um, you know, I probably saw that probably between five and ten times where I thought that there was a person that I would consider very hostile running towards me. I think at one point, I acted active duty seal, I said, are you, are you seeing these guys coming out of the bushes? And he goes, dude, you're hallucinating. I'm like, all right, I just wanted to make sure I'm good. I mean, that, so do you think you were having some kind of a flashback almost there to when you were in active duty or do you think you were completely? No, I think, you know, it's, it's funny because when I went through

training, you know, when you go through Hell Week, you're up for five days straight with maybe three hours of sleep here and there. And my, and just knowing where, you know, my body is and having been up for days at a time during, you know, different periods of my life because of being active duty, I, I never hallucinated before a 72-hour period. So I knew right around three days, if I hadn't gotten any sleep, that's when the hallucinations would start. What's really fascinating about the run and the Specter series is that I had never run continuously without stop, you know, just taking three, four minute, 10 minute breaks at a time until that point. And it kind of fast, you know, it kind of accelerated the hallucinations by, you know, a good amount of time

because after 18 hours, I was hallucinating. I don't really think they were, they were flashbacks. I've never had one, to be honest with you, but I knew that they, I knew they weren't real threats. just, it was almost like watching a video game screen of guys pumping out at you. And that's the best way I can explain it. It was, it was, it was in color. I saw these guys, but they, they, they, they weren't real. But I, you know, it was, it was, it was strange. My, my mom was playing tricks on me. So, so it was almost like you were thinking of your willpower as like a reserve that you wanted to call upon in the last moment, but not, not sooner than you needed to. Right. It wasn't time yet. It wasn't time to open up that door, but I knew I was going to have to. And, you know, to be

honest with you, Will, I hadn't had to, I hadn't had to do that in a long time. So there was a little bit of nervousness there. You know, I hadn't opened that door in a long time. And I didn't, I didn't even know if I was able to do it still. And at that point, like, okay, so let's say you're now at roughly mile 75. What did you have been doing from a gear and nutrition standpoint? Had you been swapping, sneakers, socks, taking goos, what kind of stuff from that standpoint? So from a gear standpoint, I did not switch out shoes or socks the whole time. And I know that's, yeah, I know that's counterintuitive. And I had a whole plan, you know, I had three pairs of sneakers, you know, for, for everything.

But we would do feet checks at these stops real quick. And, you know, the doc would look at my feet and be like, hey, you look good. He'd just throw some powder in my socks. And I was like, I'm not changing my socks until I get a blister. And so I kept my socks and my shoes on. The same thing, never changed the amount for all 100 bottles. And did either the guys you were running with Johnny or active seal need to swap socks or have blisters or anything like that? Yeah, they were an absolute mess.

I have never seen blisters the size of what Johnny had. It looked, he had, you know, think of a size of a golf ball. Johnny had a blister in between his big toe and I guess middle toe. That was the size of a golf ball. I've never seen something so disgusting in my life. And the active duty seal right around this point where we're, you know, between, I think it was around mile 65. He actually broke his, he actually broke his heel. So there was some sort of break.

He broke his heel. Yeah, there was, he broke his foot. This is, I know this because this, you know, this. know, obviously he went to the dock after the fact, but at some point, we think it was around mile 55, between mile and mile 65, there was a, he chipped his heel or he chipped his foot, some part of his bone in his foot, and he was in serious, serious pain. And that's kind of what set the tone for the rest of the race was after active duty seal chipped his foot. We don't know that, we didn't know this at the time. It was we knew all this after the fact, but he was

like, guys, I'm hurting. Something's not right. and to the point where he's like, guys, if we keep running at this pace, I'm going to pass out. That's how much pain he was in. Wow. So, okay, so he's got a fairly serious injury. And do you think that's because of just the repeated use or did he actually like step on something and twist? He doesn't even know maybe. Well, if, I'm sure he's going to hear this. If I had to throw my opinion in the in here, I think it was due to the lack of training because he didn't have the luxury of training because he's active duty and he couldn't run for, you know, six hours on Saturday. That makes sense. Um, so, you know, I think a little bit of lack of training had to do

with it. And again, he's a big guy. I mean, he's six one, six two, probably walks around at, you know, 210, 215. So again, him and I should never have been running this event. But at the same time, um, you know, we obviously did it anyway. So he was in excruciating pain for quite a while. I would say for probably 10, 15 hours. And it's just a testament to him. and his this mental, you know, his this mental ability, because we were like, you want to quit? And he's like, I will kill both of you before I quit. I'm like, all right, let's keep. I mean, that quite literally, too.

So the, I guess the, well, I mean, it's so cool that he was able to push through that. So from, from nutrition standpoint, what were you taking? You know, it was different for all three of us. And I'm a guy that I could step out of my house when it's 30 degrees Fahrenheit and I'd start sweating. So I knew hydration was going to be a huge part of it. it, not in the beginning, but towards the end. And we'll kind of get into that here in a little bit. But, you know, I was drinking water the whole time. I was drinking water as much as I could, electrolytes. And I didn't do, I didn't do many goos. I probably took five goose the whole time.

But what I was eating was, you know, a couple of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches here and there. I didn't eat much. I really, really couldn't, you know, I couldn't stomach much food. I knew that I had to. But I was taking electrolytes. and then also that was that was pretty much about it now the other guys they they were eating pizza eating chick-fil-a oh wow yeah they they but they're machines they're like that i don't have that ability like i couldn't eat chick-fil-a and just keep running i wanted to run up yeah completely so it took a lot of time before the event to really kind of hammer out my nutrition and what it would look like and it paid off but those guys are tanks they could eat anything and drink

anything and they'd be fine now like i kind of mentioned you know when we first started talking this is right around mile 80 and i remember this very clearly that's when i opened up that door um that reserve for the for the mental peace and that's you know as you as i sit here and kind of talk to you about it that's kind of when i felt euphoric um for a couple of reasons what are those reasons. Well, it's, it's hard to explain, but, you know, I think, I can't remember if we had talked about it before, but if I can explain it the best way is that, you know, I transitioned two years ago. And since that time, I worked, you know, in the civilian sector and just kind of got a grip of what civilian life is like. In any veteran listening to this, I think knows that it, that sucks.

it's so hard to do, and the transition is the worst part. And I hadn't had to go to that part of my mind because I was done operating as a seal for over two years. And I knew at that point that I had to go to that place again. I had to go home. I had to go, and I know that sounds cliche, but I had to go home in my mind because that's how bad things were. You know, and when I opened up that door, there was just like a pressure release from me, you know, mentally, just letting go of all the civilian bullshit that I had to deal with. Just average people, people complaining about dumb shit all the time, you know, and I just got to that point where I was like, this is what I need to tap into. And I did. And that's kind of when the

euphoric piece sit in right around mile 80 when I opened up that door. I was like, I'm home now. This is where I live. I said, that's what I said out loud, but this is where I live. home. And so from from 80 to 100 was it was it pretty I guess smooth salings maybe not the right expression but like that that phase you knew was going to be a success. No it was terrible. It was the complete opposite and that's why I was so euphoric because I don't get to put myself in that type of pain and I don't get to put myself through that type of mental shit anymore. And so it was It was painful and it was terrible, but at the same time, there was a part of me that was like, I don't get to do this anymore. So enjoy it. And I remember thinking that running right around mile 90. Like, I need to really take a couple seconds and take this in because I don't know the next time that I'm going to get this. Where did this rank on the scale of, you know, difficult things that you've done in your life? Well, that was actually the only thing that we actually talked about. And this was probably around mile 90, between mile and.

you know, 90 and 100. And I can tell you that the survey was out of the three of us, two, so active duty and Johnny said that that was harder than going through Buds. And I said that I disagreed. I think that Buds was harder than the Spectre series. So, you know, I've done one thing harder than going through Buds, and that was just a higher level training going through the SEAL teams. I would say that was definitely in the top three hardest things I've ever done, hands down and what did this whole thing look like from a data standpoint like what kind of strain were you throwing up on whoop i i was uh 20.7 two days in a row and so oh my god yeah and uh i believe we all were i believe everybody i don't think anybody was lower than a 20 you know

whether it was 20.7 or higher i'm not sure because i didn't see those i don't remember their data but um well just for our audience like this the the whoops strain score is out of 21, and it gets exponentially hard as you go up. So even going from 20.5 to 20.7 is an enormous jump. And the fact that they were over 20 for two consecutive days is unbelievable. Our whoop users listening will appreciate that. No, I'm just a little upset because I wanted to get, you know, 21. I wanted to be part of the 21 Club, if that's possible. But yeah, so we still have yet to see a 21. I feel like this event was like a good chance, but part of it, I think, has to do with how much time there is in the day, too. Really?

Because you, well, because you transitioned, it's like the 32 hours and 45 minutes took place over, like split somewhat evenly over two days. And I wonder if, you know, if you had been a straight 24 in one of those days of the event, if that would have helped you. crack the 20.7. Yeah. No, I was so upset that we didn't get there because I wanted that 21 and it's good to know that no one's hit it yet. But I think that's something we should do is have a 21 club and see who's in it and have a little award ceremony every year. I don't know. Whatever. Well, I'm sure you and Johnny will be two of the first people inducted into the 21 club. We're working on. And so after the event, did you sleep for 12 hours? Could you actually not sleep at all? what did that look like? Yeah, here's what's fascinating about that. And this is, you know,

for the whoop users out there listening to this, I think you guys will find this pretty fascinating. When I, when we finished the event, we did, you know, some friends and family stuff. And I was, I probably got into bed around 10.30 that evening. The first sleep cycle that I had, I probably slept, not probably, but after looking at that, I'm looking at it right now. I only slept about four and a half hours, and that was broken up, and I had so many disturbances throughout the night, I could barely stay asleep. And I forgot about this, but what's what my body typically does, and I don't know about anybody else, but anytime I put myself through something that traumatic as far as a stressor, as far as training goes, I have a very hard

time shutting down. And so, you know, I try to get a good six or seven hours, but my body was only good for about four and a half hours and that took me to about 630 in the morning and that was that was it well i think there's some science that too when your body is really broken down it can actually affect your sleep negatively not positively and then the other the other question is just like over the course of the event all kinds of different caffeine sources maybe from goose and whatnot and that also can affect you obviously as well yeah so that i mean i was i was really bad i mean i couldn't, I could barely walk. I couldn't walk. I can't even say barely. I couldn't walk. They actually had to wheel me into the hotel with a luggage cart. So the, the, the door guy in San Diego thought

I was drunk. And he was like, what's going on here, sir? And I'm like, I can't walk. And he's like, oh, sorry. And let them actually wheel me into the hotel in a luggage cart because they thought I was inebrated. But from that point, after that first sleep cycle, looking at my slow-wave sleep and looking at my REM, my body didn't, for the first two sleep cycles, my body did nothing, but anytime I was asleep was REM. That's all it, that's all it was going after. And, you know, you would have a better biz into this than I would will. But I think that, you know, when the body's at that point, it knows that it has to take care of the brain because that's the most vital piece. So that's what my body did. And I didn't get into slow-wave sleep

until 36 hours later after the event. And so the day after that, did you have trouble walking even? Did you intentionally try to do anything for recovery? Do you just stay in bed? No, I did. I got into Norma Tech the very next day when I woke up. So that was, you know, after that four and a half hour sleep cycle and did some jacuzzi stuff along with Norma Tech.

And Norma Tech was a big game changer. I only put it on level one, but I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it. jacuzzi and um and the normatech i would have done cryo but i didn't have a cryo place out there i should have researched that better but i would have done that as well but it was pretty amazing how much the normatech helped and were you uh taking ibuprofen or anything like that during the event or after i wasn't i think i think i took i can't remember but i believe i took maybe ibuprofen once and i think that was between mile 90 and 100 but um i because i am so

a data dork, I didn't want to take anything because I wanted to see my data as raw as possible. I don't really take medicine to begin with. So yeah, just ice, Norma Tech, and jacuzzi for recovery modality. And did you have a red recovery the next day or a couple days later or did it eventually climb back? It took me three days to get into the green again. And it was day three. So about 72 hours after, you know, after I stopped running, where I could walk again and I was green within three days. But I think that has a lot to do with really being, you know, really being in tune with my dad and what my body needs. And a lot of that was sleeping and not moving, you know, just recovering, you know, just being really, really good about

recovery just because I knew if I didn't take care of it in the first couple hours, meaning the first couple days, I just would have paid the man the rest of the week. Well, I also think you trained for it properly. I'm curious how, um, how it went for Johnny and active seal from a recovery standpoint. You know, if they recovered faster or slower than you? Yeah, I would say I was in, I was in the middle between the three of us. And the reason I say that is Johnny has a, just, he's just a freak. He's just a freak when it comes to, you know, training and when it comes to recovery. He was at the Notre Dame Navy football game with his family the very next day, like just walking around like nothing ever happened. Active duty, Seel and I were in bed and, uh, uh,

active duty seal had to get his his girlfriend to wheel him through the airport that's how bad it was yeah well it sounds like he had a real injury so i hope i hope he's bounced back from that he did i i saw him uh i was visiting those guys down there and um i saw him and he was still actually limping so he he's good he let me know that he did get it checked out and he did have some sort of fracture in his in his heel but um the the crazy thing is is i don't think it's going to heal properly because he's still working and he's putting on that 25 pound plates every day and you know doing what he needs to do so as far as his recovery goes i i feel bad because uh i don't know how how much recovery he's going to really get well well anyway look i mean congratulations on uh on finishing this

and uh and obviously fascinating story from a data standpoint um is there a specter series to look forward to this year? I was actually with Johnny last night in Philadelphia and, you know, I'll share it with your audience here because once you throw it out there, it's almost like it has to get done. We think there is going to be a Spector Series 2 and we think it's going to be a 153 or 155 miles and it could be jumping into someplace in Africa and running across the Sahara Desert. That's what was talked about last night. I don't doubt that you guys can do. it and and that's amazing and if people want to uh learn more about specter series or or donate how can they find it sure so we did this for a foundation so it's seal future fund and you guys can go

to sealfuturefund.org and click on the little button in the top right that says specter series uh and you guys will get you know you guys will see the videos and just kind of see what it was all about. And, you know, quickly, the reason that we did raise money for, you know, the guys is, you know, we just want to make sure the wellness of active duty seals is taken care of. Everybody thinks that these guys, these, the top tier warriors in this country don't struggle. And, you know, I can say this from experience, you know, we're just like everybody else when it comes to that transition and we do struggle. And so we raise funds to make sure guys have that mental wellness so their families are good, not only themselves, their families,

and then also, you know, make sure that their careers are something. that they want it to be after the fact. So after they get out of active duty and planning a great job. So that's what it's all about. Well, I think it's an amazing initiative. We'll include all the links to that in the show notes. And Mo, it's now been a few months since you've been at Woop. Any quick teaser on how it's going in terms of driving some tactical partnerships for Woop and working with armed forces? Yeah. It's been it's been nothing but eye-opening. And the reason I say that will is because, you know, what we're seeing now inside of the, the DOD space or just the tactical side, and I mean that

by, you know, firefighters, police officers and military in general, not just special forces, you know, we're really able to get a whoop strap on these guys and girls and improve them from the inside out, which means they're going to be safer when they're conducting their job. They're going to make better decisions. And I've had people, call me, email me, text me, and say, you know, what you guys are doing at whoop is a game changer and you guys are saving lives. And when I talk to the people, you know, out in the field, active duty, or, you know, first responders, I let them know. I honestly feel like the whoop strap is a life-saving piece of equipment because it's, you know, monitoring your sleep,

your strain, and recovery to a point where we're going to make better decisions when we're out in the field. And so it's been a game changer for them. And you know this just from talking to other military people as well. As they just, even from their fans, families. They just say thank you because it's just been wonderful. So it's been great. Well, awesome, man. We're so excited to be diving deeper into that market. And I personally just think it's, along with being a great opportunity, it's the right thing to do. And anyway, it's a real privilege to be working with you, Mo. And congratulations again on what you've accomplished. And I'm sure we'll get you back on this podcast in no time.

Yeah, sounds good. Thanks for having me, Will, and looking forward to the next time. Thank you again to Mo for coming on the podcast. That was our seventh episode, and we are thrilled to have Mo as part of the Whoop team. I feel humbled to get to work with him every day. If you're not already a member, you can join the Whoop community now for as low as $18 a month. We'll provide you with 24-7 access to your biometric data as well as analytics across strain, sleep, recovery, and more. the membership comes with a free whoop strap 2.0. And for listening to this podcast, folks, if you enter the code, Will Ahmed, that's W-I-L-L-A-H-M-E-D at checkout,

will give you $30 off. So thank you for listening, put $30 on my tab, get that free month, and hopefully you enjoy whoop. For our European customers, the code is Will Ahmed E-U, just tag E-U on the end of my name, and that'll get you 30 euros off when you join. Check out whoop.com slash the locker for show notes and more, including links to relevant topics from our conversation. You can subscribe, rate, and review the whoop podcast on iTunes, Google, Spotify, or wherever you've found this podcast.

We'd love to hear your feedback. You can find me online at Will Ahmed and follow at Whoop on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. You can also email The Locker at Whoop.com with any thoughts, ideas, or something. suggestions. For our current members, we've got a lot of new gear in the Woop store. I suggest you check that out. It includes 612 and 18 month gift cards, help you save over time. We've got new bands, new colors, new textures. Visit Woop.com for more. Thank you again for listening to the Woop Podcast. We'll see you next week.