WHOOP Podcast - Scott McCarron, 11-time PGA Tour Champions winner, on how he's in the best shape of his life and believes he can continue to improve his game at 54 years old.

Episode Date: September 11, 2019

PGA Tour Champions money leader Scott McCarron discusses how he discovered WHOOP (3:52), what's made him so successful at a later age (4:57), learning from some all-time greats (14:41), the mental aspect of golf (20:41), maximizing performance when in the red (24:12), improving sleep with CBD oil (26:33), meditation and focus on the course (30:06), lessons from TV broadcasting (35:53), things you probably don't know about Tiger Woods (37:18), balancing gratitude with BAMF (44:14), qualities of a great caddy (51:18), and the popularity of WHOOP on the PGA Tour (1:05:17).Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

We discovered that there were secrets that your body was trying to tell you that could really help you optimize performance, but no one could monitor those things. And that's when we set out to build the technology that we thought could really change the world. Welcome to the WOOP podcast. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of WOOP, where we are on a mission to unlock human performance. Our clients range from the best professional athletes in the world, to Navy SEALs, to fitness enthusiasts, to Fortune 500 CEOs and executives. The common thread among whoop members is a passion to improve.

What does it take to optimize performance for athletes, for humans, really anyone? And now that we've just launched all-new whoop strap 3.0 featuring Whoop Live, which takes real-time training and recovery analysis to the next level, you're going to hear how many of these users are optimizing their body with whoop and with other things in their life. On this podcast, we dig deeper. We interview experts. We interview industry leaders across sports, data, technology, physiology, athletic achievement, you name it. How can you use data to improve your body? What should you change about your life? My hope is that you'll leave these conversations with some new ideas and a greater passion for performance. With that in mind, I welcome you to the

Whoop podcast. There's so much knowledge and great advice out there that you can learn from. So I'm constantly learning. And even at 54, you know, I'm still working on my game. Am I at the peak? No, I think I can still get better. I got to focus on the little process, the little tiny things that we have to do every day and the attitude and the gratitude that I have for what I get to do.

It's amazing. What's up, folks. My guest today is pro golfer Scott McCarran, the current money leader on the PGA Tour champions. In the 90s and early 2000, Scott won three tournaments and had top 10 finishes at the Masters, U.S. Open PGA Championship. And very interestingly, his career has taken off since turning 50 and joining the senior tour, where he's won 11 times. A whoop user for nearly three years, Scott credits a lot of his recent success to his physical fitness and staying in better shape than the competition. We talk about a bunch of really interesting stuff. First off, the mental aspect of golf and how he maintains a healthy and positive mindset.

We talk about how whoop helps him stay accountable and the things he does to play his best even when he's in the red. So when he's run down. We talk about his goals going forward. and how he believes he can continue to improve his game at 54 years old. And lastly, we talk about what he learned from Tiger Woods. In this case, he's revealing secrets. I don't think anyone's ever heard before about Tiger Woods. So this is, yes, that's a tease.

Overall, Scott's amassed a great deal of knowledge over his career about what it takes to win and be successful. I think you're going to love this podcast. Without further ado, here's Scott. Scott, thanks for coming on the podcast. Well, thanks for having me, Will. Good to be here. So you've had an amazing career, and I have to tell you, it was a little surreal. I first realized you were a whoop user because I was scrolling through Twitter.

This is probably a couple years ago, and just looking at photos on the golf handle. And sure enough, there you are holding a trophy. And I'm like, oh, wow, Scott McCarran wins this tournament. And then I see this whoop strap on your wrist, and I say, oh, cool. I think he's wearing whoop. You know, it's interesting. I first got interested in WOOP by reading an article of a baseball player that was going, got traded to the San Francisco Giants.

And he wanted to make sure the team would support him with WOOP. And I had never heard of WOOP before. So I started reading more about Woop. And I basically just called you guys out of the blue and bought two Woop straps for myself and my wife who was doing triathlons at the time. I think I joined like December of 2016. So going into that season, I was wearing whoop and tracking my sleep and went and won. I think the second event I played in in Boca in Florida, the Alion's Invitational,

and was lifting that trophy wearing the whoop. And since then, I've lifted nine different trophies wearing whoop. So it's been quite a success. Yeah, it's been amazing. And congratulations on the nine wins. You are currently leading the money list in 2019 on the PGA Tour Champions, so congratulations. Thank you. So what would you attribute your success to at your age?

You're 54 now. You know, I read recently that you were quoted as saying you feel like you're in the best shape of your life. Yeah, I would say that that has certainly helped me later on in life here at 54 staying in shape. I mean, I've always been a guy that likes to work out and play tennis and racquetball. We do a lot of wake surfing, so I'm always staying in shape so I can also do other sports, but it's helped me in my golf career as well. But I think that once I turn 50, it's very interesting. When you're 35 years old or 30 years old on the PGA tour, you never really think of

there's an end of golf in sight, meaning I just felt like, you know, you just keep playing. You never really think about there's going to be an end. Once I turn 50, I realize that, hey, you know, if I stay in shape, you know, I could play for maybe eight, 10, 12 more years. But then it is an end, and you don't get that back. So let's try to make the most of these next 10, 12 years, 14 years, wherever they may be. You know, do the thing, work out, get strong, be mobile, get rest, you know, eat right, all the things that you need to do every day to help yourself be successful. And so I think that in that just mindset, knowing that there is an end in sight, let's put everything we can into this, has certainly

helped me in my golf and in my life. Makes a lot of sense. Let's go back in time for a second and talk about your rise as a professional golfer, and maybe in the process, we'll touch upon how you're thinking towards being a professional athlete has changed. So you qualified for the PGA tour in 1994. You were 29 at the time. What was your lifestyle like then?

You know, it's interesting. I took a little different approach in that I quit golf for about four years after college. I graduated from UCLA in 1988, was going to go to law school. My dad had a golf apparel company when we lived in Napa that, unfortunately, we lost everything in a flood in 1986. And so he was kind of lay a low, not sure what he wanted to do. And when I was graduating college, I said, why don't we go back into business. We'll go together. I'll start it, get the business loans. we'll see if we can make this thing work again. And so that's what I was doing. And I wasn't playing golf at all. The only time I played golf was playing scramble events for tournaments that I was helping run because of my golf background.

But I was really doing it to sell people 144 shirts and hats for these golf tournaments. I mean, you know, it was for business. And so I was playing, you know, 10, 12 scramble events a year and not playing much at all. And then I got back. Isn't that amazing? I mean, you know, you pretty much quit the sport for four years. I really did. I mean, it's interesting.

just did a panel up in Calgary for shop and they had a bunch of pictures that we had sent them and one of them was me sitting there with all my trophies on the packing table for the embroidery machines that we would do and pack our shirts and I had 150 these trophies all from when I was a kid and amateur and took this big picture and literally threw every single one of them away right after that because my golf dream and career at that time was over and so to go from a guy And it was over because you wanted to support your father or because you had lost the love for the game too? I had lost the love for the game. I wasn't playing as well as, you know, I'd hoped to. And I just, I just couldn't, didn't ever see myself playing professional golf. I mean, that dream was, that dream of playing golf, that ship had sailed. I mean, it was gone. At the time, I was, I started a flight football team, City League, played City League basketball. I played open racquetball tournament.

I was a 5-0 tennis team and skied probably 50 days a year and got my pilots license. So I was doing other things besides golf. And so to go from that aspect in my life to, you know, a couple years later, deciding that, hey, I want to, I almost won the United States mid-amateur, just kind of having fun and playing some amateur tournaments after getting back into golf. Sort of like off the couch, you almost won this tournament. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, and a lot of it, the success was.

was I found a different way to putt with the long putter. I'd never seen one before. There was a champion store event at my home course called the Rayleigh Senior Gold Rush. I saw like six or 70s guys cutting with a long putter, which I'd never seen before. Went home that night, made my own long putter after about drinking six here in Nevada Pale Ales. And,

you know, it was just quite a story of bubble gum and sand from bunkers and trying to get this thing right. So it wouldn't rattle. But I went out the next day. put it with it. And I said, you know, this feels good. I'm going to, I'm going to play a couple tournaments and see how I do with this thing. And that's kind of how it started, almost won the US men amateur at 25. And I came back and said, you know, I want to start playing golf again.

And I kind of for a year, I did both. I worked and golf. I would go to golf tournaments and I would drive around trying to sell shirts and hats and, you know, all over the place. And I did both of them not very well. So the following year, I went back up to Canada to qualify for the Canadian tour and won the qualifying. And that's when I basically quit working and just started playing golf full time. That's amazing. So that's age 28, 29. Yeah, that was, yeah, that was 27, 28 that I played the Canadian tour. I played the Hooters tour. I played a little bit in Asia. I played the California golf tour. And then I went through Q School in 1994, all three stages at that time and made it on the number at each stage, basically to get my PJ tour card. So I got one of the last cards.

So describe that, I know what you mean, but describe that for our audience what it means to go through each stage of Q school. Because I think it's like one of the fucking hardest things I can do. It is. And it, you know, it was actually even probably harder when I was going through because you had three different stages. There were about 5,000 guys that tried out. 50 made it. And each stage would have 120 guys and maybe 20 guys would go through each stage, get. through. So the first stage was a four-round tournament, and I finished on the number. I actually

birdied three out of my last four holes to make it on the number. Second stage, another 120 guys for 20 spots. I have one putted the last five holes in a row to make it on the number. Then final stage was a six-round qualifying, and that year was at Greenleaf Golf Course in Florida, which no longer exists. And after four rounds, there's a cut. I shot 67, five under the fourth round. to make the cut on the number. I had to make about an eight footer for par in the last one. And then I shot 69, 69, the last two days to make it on the number. So I got one of the last PGA tour cards.

And it was interesting. I thought, oh, my God, I'm on the PGA tour. I can't believe it. You know, this is going to be unbelievable. I get to play in all these little tournaments. Well, it doesn't guarantee you spots each week because it's a numbers thing. So I remember going to Hawaii in my first tournament, going to check in. And the gal said, oh, you're second alternate.

I'm like second ultimate for what I mean I've got my whole family and relatives I got 20 people coming over to watch me playing my first golf tournament she goes oh your second second alternate the tournament because all the other guys had before you had committed to play so it was you know even the next week I flew to Tucson and didn't get in trying to money qualify so you know it was hard get your card it was so hard then it was hard just to get in tournaments I think I played maybe 19 20 events that year and finished third the second to last event of the year in Vegas to basically keep my tour card by about $1,500 at the time. And it really came down to Mark O'Meara missed about a two and a half footer on the last hole there to help me keep my card. He had no idea who I was. And I see him in the locker room right after. And he goes, hey, kid, come here. He didn't even know my name, basically.

But he'd heard that he missed that putt and he helped Scott McCarran keep his card. He goes, hey, I'm just glad that putt. I missed the last hole. He helped to keep a tour card. Don't forget me at Christmas. And I thought that was there. I got his address, I set up Mark a bottle of Dom Perri on for Christmas.

And we became, you know, just great friends. We traveled around fly fishing together in Alaska and Ireland and are just absolute dear friends. But honestly, but it wasn't for Marco Mirr, you know, missing that put. I might be back to selling shirts and hats again. Isn't that amazing? I mean, I don't think people fully appreciate how insanely hard it is to just get on the PGA tour.

It really is. You just described to finish with a six-round qualifier where, you know, you probably may, if you have two bad holes in a row, you're out of the whole goddamn thing. Oh, you are. You are. I mean, it's one pot. I mean, it's amazing.

And even watching the qualifying now, which is through the Corn Ferry Tour, all the tournaments they have in this playoff series, I don't know if you saw it, but a young player named Doug Gim all came down to about an eight-footer for par in the last hole. If he makes it, he gets his PGA tour card. If he misses it, he's back in the corn ferry for another year. And he made it, which was incredible. I'd not make that.

I mean, I was pumped for him. I had heard a horror story about a guy who had a similar thing, but it was like a two or a three-foot putt and it hit the back of the lip and popped out or something. Yeah, that was Joe Daly, actually, in Palm Springs. at qualifying school. He did that in like the fifth round. It wasn't the last round, but he ended up missing his card by a shot. And it's kind of, yeah, snake-fitting. So when you're late 20s, early 30s on the PGA tour, who, it sounds like Mark was one of the guys, but who are you looking up to, who are you trying to like, you know, learn, hey, how do I do this, right? There's so many different tournaments to play in. I imagine there's so much

travel you have to decide where you're going to go and nod and it was very interesting for me i was working with a sports psychologist at the time uh dr glen albaugh who was a teacher of applied sports psychology at the university pacific um and he was grew up with michael murphy who wrote a great book called golf in the kingdom um his first coaching job glen was at a high school in san jose as the basketball coach and the football coach his first time coaching was a gentleman named Bill Walsh. So Bill Walsh and Glenn Albaugh were dear friends, and Bill Walsh as well know, was the most famous

coaches really in the NFL with the San Francisco 49ers. So I got to be around those guys a lot with Michael and Bill Walsh and going to training camps and having dinners and playing golf with Bill. So I learned a lot from Glenn. It seems like

that dude had an amazing attitude. Like I read his book, The Score Takes Care of Itself, right? Incredible book. And another gentleman. By the way, anyone listening should read that book. It's just like, I mean, you describe it. What's it's, it's one of the most incredible coaching philosophies and life philosophies in a book. He was a great man. We got to play a lot of golf together and hang out. And another gentleman who was going to school there and playing football was a gentleman named Pete Carroll.

So another coach. So I had a lot of great kind of mentors at the time. And I remember going to Hawaii, my first event, after I finally got in. And I never went in the locker room. I was scared to go in the locker room. I changed my shoes in the park a lot. Never went to the locker room. I would be hitting balls in the range and Payne Stewart would be hitting balls next to me. And I'd take my shag balls and go down at the end of the range so no one can see me.

I mean, I was intimidated. I mean, these guys were my heroes. I've been, you know, growing up, watching golf and wanting to play all these years. And I finally get out there. And I was really intimidated by these. guys and being on tour and I called Glenn after that week. I'm like, all right, I got to change something up because I can't go around being intimidated by these guys. He goes, well, start asking them to dinner. Start asking to play pro-ant to play practice rounds together. So I did. I took it upon

myself to get out of my comfort zone and I started asking Greg Norman, Payne Stewart, Paul Azinger, Tom Watson to go to dinner, to play practice rounds. I mean, to hang out and ask them questions. And I started writing an article for a golf publication in Northern California, a magazine. It was a monthly article. And it gave me an opportunity to interview guys, Hal Sutton, Ben Crenshaw. So as a rookie, I would say, hey, I got this little magazine I write for, hey, could I sit down with an hour and just interview you? And I would write a monthly article. But that gave me the opportunity to get to know these guys in a different setting and become friends with them. So when I got on the first team, I wasn't nervous to be playing off with them.

And I think that helped, that separated me a lot from maybe a lot of the other rookies because I wasn't just hanging out with the rookies. And that seems to happen a lot. Rookies get on tour. They all go to dinner together. They all play practice because they're comfortable because we all were playing mini tours together. So I got out of my comfort zone was asking guys who had won the year before, our major

winners, guys that have been out there a long time to go to dinner. And I was learning from these guys. and I think that helped me a lot early on in my professional career and it was amazing being one of the last guys to get through Q school to have one of the last spots after three years of me being on the PGA tour out of those 50 guys

I was the only one that had kept their card every year only one oh wow that's a huge accomplishment yeah it is it is I mean it's so it's so hard to keep your tour card each year and I kept it for many years straight up until I was probably 45 when I got injured But I think getting out of my comfort zone, asking other players for help, because these guys are more than happy to help you, but they're not going to go out of their way to help.

You have to actually ask, ask for help. Yeah, I remember reading about Michael Jordan, who was one of my heroes growing up, and how during the Olympics, he would try to spend time with every single player or like one-on-one on the team. you know so you'd spend time with magic or bird or all these different guys and try to figure out exactly what made them tick or you know try to just uncover as much as he possibly could about them which is similar to what you're describing too absolutely and you know it doesn't stop i mean i here i go get on the champions tour uh in my first year and a half uh or first half a year i'd put myself in position but hadn't won and i hadn't won for a long time and um i just kept getting myself in position and i kept trying too hard and i i took hale irwin to dinner. I mean, Heller wins one 45 times in the PGA Tour champions more than anybody. And so I thought he'd be a great guy that, you know, pick his brain. We went to dinner and I started picking his brain. And one of the things he said to me is find out what kind of type of player you are and be that player. And I always thought that I had to on the PGA Tour play my absolute best on Sunday. I couldn't miss a shot. I had to hit everything perfect. I had to make

these puts to win, which you don't. You just have to put the ball in the fairway, put the ball in the green, get yourself in position, control your emotions, and sometimes coming down the stretch, you might make a birdie or someone might make a bogey. But don't try to hit the heroic shot all the time. I think I was always trying to do that. And that helped me a lot. I mean, right after that, I won principal charity classic and went on to win another time that year. And I won 11 times now on the PG tour champions in three and a half years. But again, it sounds like it was just like a slight mindset shift. And for people who play golf, they probably understand that. But For those who don't, like golf is, I think, especially at your level, I mean, it's got to be as much mental, if not more, because so many people have the game.

Yeah, so many people, you walk up and down the range, well, on any PJ tour, even the PJ Tour champions, and just watch these guys hit balls. Everybody looks so good. Yeah. I mean, really, the short games and everything, it's amazing. So what's going to separate all these players? Well, one, you know, everybody can play great at their home course. Everybody's comfortable. You know, some guys can play great Thursday, Friday, sometimes play, you know, good on Saturday, moving day, but who plays really well on Sunday in the back nine?

I mean, that's the thing. I mean, you've got to be able to do it under the gun, under the most extreme pressure that you can, and to be able to handle those emotions. And those are the guys that are successful. And, you know, I play great sometimes under the gun, and sometimes I don't. I mean, just this week in Canada, I was right there near the lead. I made two bad swings on 16 and 17 made bogeys. But then I came back with two great swings on a par five and made a huge eagle putt from about 40 feet to...

Oh. Yeah, it looked like I was going to win the tournament. And the guy behind me, West Short, hit a three wood that landed in the water, hit the rock in the water and bounced onto the green. I mean, and made birdie to beat me by a shot. So, you know, it's just sometimes it's one of those things. Yeah, right.

And, you know, you just got to be there and keep on yourself. in position. So sometimes do a great, you do a better job than others. But again, you can't let that bother you. I can't worry about, and I have a very short-term memory for things that I've done wrong. I will look at it. That's an important attitude. I will look at it, go, okay, that's not what I want to do. What I want to do next time is this, and then move on. But I have a very long-term memory for great shots. And I'll watch those shots over and over again. You know, they're all over the internet and they're on Twitter, the eagle putts. I mean, I'll watch those great shots to get that feeling, to really love them and try to forget as quickly as you can, the bad stuff.

That's an amazing attitude. So for you, like with Whoop, you know, you've been on Whoop since 2000, end of 2016, which is awesome. Totally, totally honored that you've been using the product for that long and gotten value out of it. What are some things that you've used Whoop to do? Well, a couple things. One, it's like my pacifier now. I can't go anywhere without it. I mean, that's the funniest thing. I actually, you know, my whoop went down two weeks ago.

It was broken, and I was on the road, and we had another one sent to the house, but I had to go a whole week and a week without one, and it felt really, really weird, not be able to trap my sleep and my strain and all these things. so that's the thing that's helped me the most is one being accountable you know what time to go to bed you know if i want to have a good day tomorrow i need to go to bed i need to get some sleep um i need to prepare myself not be looking on the computer or internet or watching tv maybe do some reading before some meditating before i go to bed to get the correct amount of sleep two i wake up check my whoop how is my sleep am i in the green am i in the yellow am i in the red if i'm in the green all right man we're going to have a good workout. We're going to hit a bunch of balls. We're going to play golf. I mean, we're

having a big day. If I'm in the yellow, yeah, I'm going to see how I feel. I might not work out quite as hard or as long. And if I'm in the red, I might take a nap that day. And I love that whoops says, hey, you need the little rest. You need to recover. It allows me to kind of say, okay, you know what, I think you're right. Let's just go ahead and maybe take a little nap. Let's not do a big workout. Let's maybe only hit 30 or 40 balls. Or just just practice our short game the day or you know whatever it may be um and that's the thing when i go to the golf course and a lot of times if i'm sleeping on the lead sometimes it's hard to get good sleep i mean i'll admit it i mean sometimes i'm in the red sometimes in the yellow if i'm in the red and i'm driving to the golf

course for a sunday round and i'm in the league i might drive slower i might oh yeah take take some deep breaths if i go do my warm up instead of doing my full 30 minute warm up i might just get on the bike for five minutes do a little stretch do my stretching and kind of go but i'm walking a little bit slower um breathing a little bit more um deeply deeply um just trying to be very relaxed and calm getting to the golf course getting to the first tea um all those things just kind of slow down a little bit just kind of take it easy um because i'm in the red my body's not really prepared for all the things that might be coming that day and i've won tournaments after sleeping in the red i've run one on the green one all. But it kind of gives me an idea of how to be during that day

once I've been able to track and see what my sleep is. I love that concept, this idea that whoop is telling you the status of your body and then you're using that to manage your body accordingly. You're not going to have a bad attitude about it. You know, if you've got a red recovery and you're in the lead on a Sunday. That's that. You just have to figure out the best way to manage your body when it's in a red recovery. Absolutely. I just got, I went seven straight days in the green. Great sleep. I was up in Canada. It was fantastic. I lose the tournament Sunday. I go to sleep Sunday night, but we got to wake up at three o'clock in the morning for a four. We got to get the airport four for a six o'clock flight international. Don't get much sleep. Had a couple drinks Sunday night. There you go. There you go. Two percent in the red. Two percent. I went green for seven days than two percent. You know, it's like, it's a, it's a, amazing how much different you feel when you don't get good sleep. What are some things that you found have improved your sleep over time?

Well, okay, one, not drinking much. I really don't drink on the road at all, but when I'm at home, off weeks or whatever, we'll have friends over, have a glass of wine or a cocktail or two. I really notice if I have more than two cocktails, it affects my sleep. Totally. I mean, just not, it's not even, not even close. So that is, that's a big thing. Again, making me accountable.

And I think that's been huge. Another thing that's helped me a lot is, again, the strain and the workout. When my, when my whoops says workout part, I go ahead and push myself and work out and get that strain up high. But I've got to make sure that when I'm going to bed, I'm not on my computer looking at Twitter or Instagram. or whatever you may look on or reading. Sure. You know, I'll make sure I read a book and for 20 minutes and get to sleep. And the other thing that's helped, I signed with a company, a CBD company called Functional Remedies.

And I take a CBD oil, little pill, 25 milligram pill, about 20 minutes before I go to bed. And it has noticeably changed my sleep, which is amazing because I'm wearing whoop, I can track it. And I mean, and that was a thing that actually got me into the CBD oil was I called the guys after trying it for a week and my sleep was just, I mean, it was in the 90% and the green every day. And I hadn't had that for a long time. And I said, you guys, there's something to this CBD oil because I haven't had this type of sleep forever. And I track it. I sent them a screenshot of the weak sleep that I had and said, here's the proof. So I'm all in.

It was really pretty cool. And that helps me, too, with recovery and all kinds of stuff. So having the whoop is measurable, having the taking the CBD oil, functional remedies also helps with my sleep and recovery and just makes me, you know, ready to perform. I get asked all the time by high performing athletes and executives and other people, what are, what are things I should do, Will, to sleep better? And, you know, there's some simple stuff, right? Like generally colder is better, darker rooms better, going to bed and waking up. up at the same time's better. But what I often come back to is this idea of you got to start just by measuring your sleep to manage it. And then once you create some real baseline around

how you are as a sleeper, you know, you can do, you can do Scott, what you've done, which is like introduced CBD oil and see, okay, wow, this is, you know, this is making my sleep more efficient or it's making the amount of time it takes for me to fall asleep shorter or I'm getting more slow wave sleep now or more REM sleep now and all of a sudden you've got this baseline and you've realized what are what's a positive influence in my life or a negative influence in my life to improve it absolutely I mean it just and again getting ready for bed I mean last night I was up till probably 10 o'clock doing tax stuff so just all numbers running through your head you know and and then try to go to sleep right after that I had a very difficult time and had a four sleep in the

red because I didn't prepare and I knew going in that if I stayed up till 10 o'clock doing tax stuff that I would probably have not a great sleep and I would never do that on the day that I have to play. But again, it's all those things that I now realize when I'm going to do them. How is this going to affect my sleep? Because my sleep's going to affect the next day. Now, you mentioned that you're someone who likes to meditate. Talk to me a little about your meditation practice. Yeah, I do a couple things. I do meditate. If I can sit down for five minutes on the short time to 20 minutes on the longer periods of time, meditating. And basically just clearing my mind, sitting in a comfortable place, looking down at a spot on the floor or on

the rug, and letting go those thoughts. Whatever comes to mind, take a deep breath, let it go. That's one meditation technique I use. I also work with a couple different devices, one called Focus Band, which is a device where around your head. And it basically is measuring how your brain waves and those type of things slower. And then another one I've used for a long time is called versus. And that has a full headset that measures the beta-theta waves as you're going through some game-like scenarios. And all these devices basically help to start eliminating thoughts

and start to clear your mind. Because the less thoughts we can have, again, the less strain you're putting on your heart, your mind, You know, heart math is another thing that I do also. So I do, there's a lot of different techniques that I use. And all of it is to basically just get my brain to slow down. If I get amped up for a golf tournament and I call it sing-songy where, you know, you're starting to replay songs in your head or something over and over again,

I've got to start slowing that mind down. And the more I can do that at night and the better I, I am, consistent with it, my brain and my, let's say, even anxiety level, whatever you may see, I feel calmer the next day. So I use all those devices. I mean, I'll use verses for a week. And then I might do a little focus band and even do the focus band while I'm putting on the golf course or hitting shots to get myself in that frame of mind. And all those things that I'm using is just to get my thoughts to slow down, my brain to slow down. So when I'm over that shot, for those moments, those few seconds, there's nothing going on in my brain. I'm not thinking about anything

else except nothing and just allowing my body to react to the shot at hand. Yeah, it's so interesting. I started meditating about four or five years ago and I felt, I feel like it's improved my life in a whole number of different ways. But I'm a golfer myself and, you know, I'm probably somewhere between a two and a four handicapped. And, well, I can dabble, but, but nowhere, nowhere near, nowhere near the level that we've been talking about. I found that meditation dramatically helped my attitude on the golf course. I mean, almost more so than any other sport. And I think it's, I think it's because you have so much time in between your shot.

There's, there's something about golf that's like a lot less. instinctual or reactive than other sports. You know, I played squash in college, which in a lot of ways it's just all reaction, right? Like the ball, it sounds like you're a racquetball player, you know, the sports like that, it's like feels like all reaction, right? You're in a flow state out there. You're constantly trying to, you know, get the ball, keep up with it. You know, maybe you're making strategic adjustments between points, but for the most part,

you're just go, go, go. and on some level it makes the mental aspect easier because you don't have time to think about anything else about yeah how am I playing or whatever whereas in golf you hit a shot and you've got another I don't know 30 seconds to a couple minutes before you have to hit another one so you're really marinating on how how that last shot was exactly and that's one of the biggest things and how I use meditation how I use breathing techniques or how I use heart math in between those shots because you do have a lot of time in between shots.

You know, you really only have to focus or quiet your mind during a shot for maybe two minutes a whole day because, you know, those actual 10, 15 seconds over each shot, you know, only add up to a few minutes a day. So what are you going to do in between shots for the next four or five hours, you know, when you're playing golf and playing in golf tournaments? And I'll find myself almost doing a meditation of looking up and out. outlining clouds in the sky or outlining trees or even looking at the ground as I'm walking. I might even close my eyes for while I'm walking for 10 or 15 yards.

I love that. And a lot of it is the, you know, the breathing, big, deep breaths to slow your mind down to calm yourself down in between their shots. Because you're right. You do have, you know, maybe two minutes in between shots walking that you can think about how bad the last shot was, whatever it may be. But you've got to be able to stay in the moment. And so I'll use techniques a lot of gratitude. What really makes me feel good right now? And sometimes it might be me imagine myself in a float tube on a lake up in Northern California.

You can feel the wind blowing your face. You can smell what it smells like. You can feel the cold on your legs in the water. You can see the fly rot. I mean, all those things. And the more vivid. Yeah, you're good at this, man. I'm right there with you on the leg.

Yeah. The more vivid you can be. the more you're just right in that moment right here and now and not thinking about the shot you hit or not thinking about the consequences of the shot you hit that's going to affect the next one. Because, and I learned, I've learned this, you know, over the years, but I really learned how guys handled himself and managed up.

When I was injured on the PJ tour, I took a job with Golf Channel doing on-course commentating. And then I started the Fox broadcasts. We started doing all the USGA and the U.S. Open events. And I was the on-course commentator. And I got to walk with the best players in the world, winning the biggest tournaments and watching them. And I could tell, you know, going into the back nine, who was going to win? And I could tell by the way they carried themselves, how they handled bad shots, how they were walking.

Because guys sometimes get quicker. Some guys would really get quick, you know, and I could see, oh, he's done. Or I can see guys even slow down also in their routine slower. They're walking in the green, looking at it from all different directions. They're in their yarder books. They can't add up the yardages. I mean, you can see these things happening to these guys as they're playing. And I could tell right away, you know, who was going to have a chance and who wasn't.

And so I told myself, when I get in that position, when I get on the Champions Tour, I want to be able to look the same. I want to be able to someone who could look over and say, they don't know if I'm shooting 75 or 65. And so try to keep everything as normal as possible. Control your emotions. The guys that can control their emotions under the gun are the guys that are going to have the most success. Now, it doesn't guarantee that you're going to win, but it's going to give you the best opportunity for them. What do you think Tiger Woods had in his peak and probably still has today? I know.

I mean, I got to hang a lot with Tiger. Mark and Maryland and Tiger Woods were great friends back in the day, and I used to go with Tiger and Mark and David DeBall to Ireland for a week before the British every year. We fish and work out and play golf. got to have dinners and lunch and hang out with Tiger got to know him a little bit but a couple things why he was so successful one he knew that he was the best player out there and he knew that you knew that he was the best player out there yeah he intimidated a lot of people and that was one of the things when Tiger and I first started going over there I said you know you came out here and you really didn't want to get to know anybody and you

were kind of standoffish. One minute he'd walk by in the locker room, the next minute he'd say, hey, you know. He said, well, I didn't really want to make friends to everybody, because I wanted to make sure everybody was, you know, when they stood up on the first tee, I had a two-shot advantage because they were intimidated. You know, I said, well, one,

you're already so much better than everybody else that you don't really need to do that. And two, you're right, because so many guys, I mean, guys that were great players, Ernie Ells, the Davis loves, and these guys were amazing. But any time they play with Tiger in the hunt, you know, 90% of the time, they played poorly because Tiger was intimidating. His crowds were intimidating.

The whole situation just being with Tiger. And I got the opportunity to play with him in final rounds and watch him play and, you know, beat him a couple times. But most of the time he beat me. I mean, it was just, it was that much harder to play with. And he was able to rise to the big moments because he stayed calm in those times. He had such a great routine. He had such a great mind that he could see his shots and visualize his shots and almost will the ball into the hole. I mean, Tiger got up over a put that he had to make.

Everyone knew he was going to make it, and he knew he was going to make it. It was just an incredible time in golf. I was very fortunate to be able to play with him and witness. I think some of the greatest golf that's ever been played from that 96, 97 until 2005. 10, 12 years, just amazing thing. I was always so impressed that he could have this huge range of emotions. I mean, we've been talking about keeping your emotions in check, but he, to your point, he could hit a, you know, a three wood around a tree on the 18th hole at some epic

course in the U.S. Open, Pebble Beach is the shot I was thinking of, and have this huge celebration, right? And then the crowd erupts, and then yet he goes up to the green. And he's completely quiet again. And again, he. It's really hard to do that emotionally, to get to that level of a high, to bring a crowd with you to that level of a high, and then plummet it back down. And again, I think he was able to do that because he meditated. He practiced all these different type of techniques to get him.

I always wondered if Tagger Medits. He sure did. And he still does. It seems like a bit of a secret, by the way. Oh, yeah. I don't think people know Tagger Meditated. Yeah, he absolutely does. And a lot of that's from his background of his mother.

Yeah, right. From all that. And he also, I mean, this guy, when we were going on an island, he was studying to become a master diver. And he was also... Which is a lot of breath. A lot of breath. A lot of breath work. And I think he was really doing a lot of, you know, breathwork and free diving.

And because of that, you know, he was practicing, meditating and holding his breath. And, I mean, I think he got up to... That makes so much sense. Three minutes, you know, or more of holding his breath, he can. So I think that he was. He was able to have those high highs and be able to in those next 30 seconds to two minutes to be able to come down to be able to refocus himself to be in that moment because of all the practice that he was doing on the outside. So for you now, you know, you're obviously at the peak of your game on the champions tour. How do you think about goal setting for the next, you know, 12 months, three years, five years?

Do you even do that? You know, I do. I goal set. I have some, you know, plans I want to accomplish out here on the PGA Tour champions, and that's just, you know, win as many majors as I can. And I want to win the Schwab Cup, which is our end of the year, which I'm leading right now, money list. So, you know, I've been watching a great player for the last couple years, Bernard Longer, who is just a ageless wonder, German heritage, very precision-like in everything he does. And watching him take apart golf courses, watching him work out, watching him get prepared each week to give himself the best opportunity at 62 now he just turned last week. And so I've learned a lot from him and watching him and watching what he's doing. You know, and I want to be one of the best players out here on this PGA Tour champions. And people ask me, you know, what does it feel like to play the championship? It feels exactly the same to play the PGA Tour champions as it did to play the PGA Tour

because I'm playing against the same guys. I mean, these are the same guys that I was playing with in 94, 95 all the way through. And a lot of times we're playing the same courses. You're seeing the same people that were in the galleries. I mean, it feels so much fun. And I'm so blessed to be able to continue to play the sport I love for living at 54. So, you know, yeah, I want to win the Schwab Cup. And that's what my goal was at the start of the year.

This year, it was the start of the year last year. I finished second in the Schwab Cup, there's third, and you're for that finished fourth. So I'm getting closer. I'm trending in the right direction. But I'm, you know, again, it's a process. Those are the ultimate goals, but how am I going to get there? The process to get there is one, get enough sleep every night, do my workouts, practice doing my meditation and my head work, make sure that the travel arrangements, you know, all those things that go in that process. Speak with my coach, E.A. Tishler, see them, you know, four or five times a year. Keep talking.

with Glenn Albaugh, my sports psychologist that I've had forever, reading books in the outside, magazine articles about sports psychology and winning attitudes, Jim Afromo. I mean, all these, there's so much knowledge and great advice out there that you can learn from. So I'm constantly learning. And even at 54, you know, I'm still working on my game. Am I at the peak? No, I think I can still get better, you know, and I'm still, and I got to focus on the little process and the little tiny things that we have to do every day and the attitude and the gratitude

that I have for what I get to do. It's amazing. We just moved about a year and a half to a new place in Morrisville, North Carolina, and we're on a lake, and I get to boat and wakesurf and paddleboard, and we've got some great friends, and I've been hanging out with Dan Jansen, who has become one of my best friends, Olympic speed skater, gold medalist winner, and talking with him. And he'll he'll send me you know we'll talk about you know being in the hunt and being in the competition and he'll send me an email at three in the morning you know just this incredible things that he was thinking about when he was going to world championships or Olympics and how what would be an example a great example was last year um Halloween we're all together for a Halloween party

on this Halloween walk and Dan and I were talking about I'm going to the Schwab Cup and I've got an opportunity to, you know, win. If I win the tournament, I'll win the Schwabner. So, you know, how can you go about getting yourself in that position when there's only one event left and you have to win, just like Dan did to go to the Olympics? He's got one skating, speed skating event left. And if he skates his ability, he can win and win a gold medal that will change his life forever.

So how do you go about getting yourself ready for that? And he wrote this big, long email. about what he was thinking and when he won the gold medal in the willie hammer and he said the main thing was to realize how lucky we are that we're healthy that we get to play the sport we love for living that we have this gratitude this absolute gratitude that what you get to do is just amazing and then remember and i'm going to swear her that you're a that you're a badass mother fuck you know and that's it man you got to have that gratitude that I am so lucky to be here but I am lucky to be here because I am and we call BAMF BAMF you know people are here to watch you because you are that people are here to ask you questions in the media because you are that so but and so it's a balance he said you've got to find that balance of that gratitude and that feeling of BAMP and you find that balance,

whatever that may be. You can't be all BAMP and think you're the greatest thing that nothing's going to happen because that's going to put you over the edge. And you can't be all just gratitude because now you have gratitude, but you really think you're the best. You have to find that balance. And he said, find that balance. I thought that was great.

That's such an important theme I've found. Like I've gotten to interview fascinating people through this. podcast and gotten to meet a lot of really interesting people through Woop. And gratitude is this recurring theme I've found amongst truly peak performers. Yet they find, and 100% you've found this, you've found a way to be grateful without it affecting how driven you are or how hungry you are. Because I think that there's successful people out there who actually don't appreciate their success at all. And in part, they feel that way because they're afraid it's going to somehow slow them down. Right. You know? And what inevitably happens is that makes you just sort of less

happy, I think. And so to find that balance of being appreciative and hungry or appreciative and driven, that to me is a very key, it's a very core balance. It really is. We all know very successful people. We've all met in all aspects of life, whether the athletes or CEOs or doctors, but are they happy, you know? And the people I want to associate with are people that are successful and that also have really strong, happy lives. And you've got to have that gratitude. You've got to be able to do what you've done and then also help others. I mean, what are you doing? Do you have a foundation? Do you giving back to charities? Are you helping a mentor, a young person coming up that might want to get into whatever your field that you're in that's what you know that giving that

people gave back to me when I was a young kid growing up and helped me when I was young so I've tried to do that myself I mean I've got you know four or five kids young guys that are trying to play mini tour events that they have my number and they call them anytime they need advice it's just like I have numbers of older guys that I call that I need advice you know from and it's that big circle of life, that giving back that kind of gives you that gratitude. I love that. What are some other things that you feel you've tried to do in your life, or you've noticed that have helped improve your mood or improve your happiness?

One, marry the right woman. Yeah, the core. Yeah. Chat out to Jennifer, also a whoop user and triathes. And she's now into horses. She's back to show jumping horses. So, and she is addicted to her whoop as well. And Jenny has been, we've been together married for three years, been together for seven years now.

And she came across in my life at a crossroads. Going through divorce, I'm not sure if I was going to be able to play golf anymore, doing some announcing, maybe deciding to quit golf and doing that full time. And all of a sudden, this woman comes into my life that says, no, you love golf. This is what you are. This is what you do. Let's get you back to it. And so she has been traveling with me. She caddy for me when I played, you know, the old web.com events before I got on the champions tour. She caddied for me in my first championship store event at British Senior Open at Sunningdale. And she's been with me every step of the way,

being that person, you know, that realizing, helping me realize that this is my dream and this is what I want to do. that even at 50, dream big. I mean, anything's possible. Totally. You know, and to have someone in your life like that, that, you know, I want to, you know, basically show off for her too. You know, I want to show her how good I can be. And she wants to show me how good she can be and triathlons and horse jumping.

And so we have this great symbolic relationship where we work out together. We push each other. we have downtime, we have fun, we wake surf and to have someone in your life that you're able to share all these things with and not just be going on the road by yourself, which I did for many, many years. It's a very tough, lonely game. Now having someone in my life that I know to share all these wonderful experiences with and it's just been amazing. And that's, I think, more than anything, that has really got me changing my thinking and got me to start setting my goals even higher than I ever did. on the PJJJT. That's awesome. And so talk to me about the caddying piece. Like, have you found that, you know, the most important thing in terms of, in terms of your caddy is, you know, having sort of

just a spiritual leader with you out there? Or how do you think about your right-hand man? Yeah, I've got a great, yeah, I've got a great guy with me, Rich Mayo. Rich Mayo played at Oklahoma and UTEP. He almost won the United States Publinks Championship back in the day. So he almost got to play in the Masters. He played a couple of years on mini-tourism web.com, ran out of money and started caddian to raise more money to go play. He started caddy for Paul Stankowski first for about five years. And then he was with me for about five or six years in the PGA tour. And then when I got injured in 06, he quit and went to work and he had a son named Zach.

And he was doing his thing for years. when I got back to turning 50 on the H.A. Tour champions, he called me about five months before and says, I want to come work for you. I said, I'd love that. So we've been together for another almost five years. So like 11 years. And he has been an incredible guy standing right by my side every step of the way. He's so calm in the moment, never gets rattled. He's a guy that if he looks at me after a shot, if I'm, you know, he can see it lingering. He might say, all right, let's get back, let's breathe this hole, let's hit the shot in the fairway, or whatever it may be. He's just done an incredible job of being that, that, you know, not so much cheerleader,

but just being there right on your side every step of the way. I never have to worry about him. He's there on time. He shows up. He does his work. And a great example last year in the Schwab Cup at Phoenix in the back nine, I had a chance to win the tournament and win the Schwab Cup. And BJ Singh had played a great back nine, shot like three.

30 or whatever. But I still had a chance going into the 17th hole and I hit a bad wed shot and had to take a drop anyways, make double bogey. And it was kind of devastating because you know, I'm losing the tournaments. I'm going to lose the Schwab Cup now. Now I've got to play 18 a par 5 and I'm not quite getting myself up for the next shot. He could see that. And he turns and he turns to me and he says, listen, if you bury the last hole, you're going to finish second on the Schwab Cup. Second, because that is a great year. He goes, let's go birding the last hole. And it immediately snapped me out of this kind of fog too. All right. Yeah. So if we're going to bird it, we got to do what? I got to hit the fairway. And I got to hit the fairway. I had a

great second shot. I chipped it up about a foot and made birdie. And that that birdie was the difference between Finney and Shane's second or fifth in the Schwab Cup. And it was, you know, it's worth about half a million bucks, just that one birdie, you know, at a time where I could just thrown in the towel and made parer boge he got me right back into that uh into being in that moment and that was really you know that is caddy in 101 that's how you become a hall of fame type cat yeah it's so interesting i mean uh your your whole mindset out there as a professional golfer i imagine is um you know there's certain moments where it's uh it's more impressionable maybe than other people realize and so to have your caddy say the right thing

or the wrong thing, I'm sure, affects that shot. Well, it certainly can't. You know, again, every time we hit a shot, it is my job to be in the moment and hit that shot. He can't hit any shots for me, but he certainly can get me or help me get in the right mindset. And that's what a good caddy does. I mean, they're good caddies are like your wife, your sports psychologist, your swing teacher.

I mean, they have to wear so many hats. And it's a tough job But again, they are part of the team I mean, when we win I don't say I win, I said we win I mean this is a team deal And it's so fun to have one of my best buds And I've been with for 10 years

Walking the Fairways When we walk up to have a chance to win tournaments And you know what? Then when it's over I mean like last week we lose West Short Bertie's last hole beat me And it was so exciting And he's like hey, we gave me a great shot

And then it's like, all right, I'll see you next week. You know, it's like, okay, it's pretty cool. No, that is cool. So I know we'll wrap up here in a few minutes. I want to ask you a few different questions. One is when you hear the expression optimal performance, who or what comes to mind? Well, optimal performance for me would be Joe Montana. Cool.

It would be Tiger Woods. Those are the guys that really optimize their. performance when they needed to. What's the most memorable moment of your career? I think the most memorable moment of my career would be the last hole of Cue School, 1994 at Greenleaf, having to make par to get my tour card. I hit at the rough. I had a seven iron that I had hit at Bermuda Ruff and cut it about 20 yards around a tree.

And really just was in that moment. saw the shot, pictured it, felt the swing, and then just trusted what I saw and felt and pulled the shot off to make a part to get my tour car. Because if I don't, I'm not talking to you today. I'm selling shirts somewhere probably. I mean, I love that you referenced that. You're a guy who's won. God knows how many tournaments in your life and, you know, how much money.

And yet you're referencing Pew School, age 29, probably, you know, 25 years ago so that just shows you how incredibly intense that period it really is and it's that those type of moments um can define you you know they i don't know if i don't make far there i don't know if i get a chance to get back on next year i would hope so um you never know and those type of things really do can define you so you better be ready at that moment what are some uh resources or books or or anything you'd recommend to people who are listening to this and intrigued by everything you've said about, you know,

about trying to find, create the best version of you, create the best life for yourself, you know, perform well in sports. It sounds like you're someone who reads a lot and is constantly gobbling up tidbits of all sorts. I have a couple of books that helped me through my career.

And one, I was a big part of, Dr. Glenn Elbaugh called Winning the Battle Within. A great book on, sports psychology that Glenn and I kind of went through this journey together and love him. I mean, he's been a phenomenal mentor of mine. And one of the best books I think has been written on sports psychology, winning the battle with Ben by Glennonov.

Yep. We'll get on the show notes. Yeah. The other one, Michael Murphy, Golf in the Kingdom. The first half of the book is phenomenal. Shevis Irons and it's a mystical golf journey in Scotland that through web through this story is a phenomenal sports psychology book golf in the kingdom and just a great great read and Michael is such a incredible forward thinker in the human potential movement and he's been a great friend for a long time

Another book by Steve Yellen and Buddy Bianchalana called Fluid Motion Factor. And it's a short book, only about 70 pages. That is, it's a phenomenal book on being in fluid motion. And meaning, you know, are you right in that, are you tense, are you tight and you can't, you know, quite perform the way you want to? Or are you fluid and just letting it go? Because when you hear of good players, especially, let's just take golf, for instance, after tournament. And the announcer says, so, you know, how did you feel out there? What were you thinking?

Never once did as a guy say, you know, I was reading golf magazine, and there was a tip in there about shifting my weight at the top of my sway. And when I would do that, you know, never. It's always about I felt very calm. I felt very in control. I was happy to be there. Or, you know, I was in fluid motion. Whatever it may be, they're always talking about how they were feeling calm and felt good

and they felt happy. And so how do we get there more often? And we call that being in the zone. And being in the zone really is just being in the moment. So how do we get there more often? How do we get there under the big moments? How can we train to get there faster and be in the zone longer? So fluid motion factor by Steve Yellen's another great book and Buddy Bion.

And by the way, it doesn't matter what your goals are in life. The pursuit of being in that flow state, whether you're an amateur athlete or an executive or anything, I think is something that no one should deprive themselves of. Absolutely. I mean, even just being in a conference room or giving a speech or listening to someone give a speech, are you intently listening? Are you in that fluid motion? Are you really taking in what people are saying and learning? Or are you off on your iPad or your iPhone, you know, looking at Twitter or Instagram, whatever it may be? So being in that fluid state can help you in all aspects you're like. What's your relationship with technology? I'm just dangerous to hurt myself.

You know, I try to keep up. My wife has now kind of got me on Twitter. I'm not on Instagram. You know, I can work my iPhone pretty well on my iPad, but you give me TV components and direct TV and Wi-Fi, you know, I'm going to screw it all up. So I love it. I love it. I love it. I love trying, but, you know, I'm not a big, huge tech savvy guy. Yeah, for me, it's a, it's an interesting, it's an interesting balance to find because on one level, I am running a technology company. Right. And, you know, I'm very appreciative of technology and, and I want to learn as much as I can about it. On the other, I think that there's a lot of things about technology today, in particular screens wherever you find them that are, you know, sort of disrupting a lot of

the themes that you and I touched upon today, you know, this idea of appreciating the moment and, you know, trying to identify what you're, you know, really identify what are you trying to do in this moment? Technology can be so disruptive to that. Well, I agree. I would just, you know, to one point, Twitter, you know, I kind of like reading some of my news on Twitter and reading something I was like, but Twitter can be so negative. Totally. Especially

you know, towards, you know, I'm just taking it for me as an example, winning a tournament or putting. I putt with a long putter and they outlawed anchoring you know, three years ago, four years ago on with long putters and belly putters. So I

had to learn a whole technique of how to put with this long putter not anchored. And it took me months and thousands of hours of practice and I was able to in changing the putter and changing the length and the weight and figured it out I mean I put such time into this and and and to be able to come back and play competitive golf at the highest level winning tournaments you know which is pretty incredible and then someone will I'll win a tournament or whatever and someone will just say oh you're a cheater you know you ang it's like no I don't you know listen I and and so I'm always I've been the

guy that says listen I will you come to a tournament I'll spend five minutes with you and teach you how to do it because it can help people. I want to help people. You know, and some of these Twitter trolls are just ridiculous. So, you know, I got to make an effort of, either I block them very quickly or my wife blocks them quickly or anytime I say anything back to them, I'm, you know, never negative. I never say what I, how I really feel. I'm always saying, hey, listen, come to a tournament, I'll teach you how to do it because. Well, that's a winning act. It's the only way to do it. But, you know, if I'm in the hunt, or something like that, I'm really not looking at.

I'm not reading the paper because even the news guy in that local town might have some angle or might say something that I don't agree with. And I don't want to be going to the next day thinking about it. I'm not reading Twitter. I'm not looking on Instagram. I kind of go dark with all the social media when I'm playing and especially when I'm in the hunt. You think professional golf is in good hands today with some of our younger. You know what?

I really do. I've been fortunate I'm still kind of hanging out on the tour a little bit and through working as a golf course announcer get to know Jordan Speeith, Ricky Fowler, Justin Thomas. These guys are great guys and they are the future of golf. Young kid, Mike Wolfe,

the kid out of Cal who won Reno. These guys are really good. And these kids are so good coming out of college that I'm just amazed. There's so much better than we were when we first came out on the PGG. So I think golf is in really good hands right now, and the core of the guys are just, they're super guys. They're great young men.

They've got great values, and they're phenomenal golfers, and they do a great job with the fans. And that's very important. The pro ams that we play on Wednesdays and be able to give back to the fans is huge, and the young guys are really starting to get it. Well, Scott, you've set an amazing example for all these guys, and really it's been, just an absolute pleasure talking to. You strike me as someone who's incredibly wise and dialed and driven. So, you know, proud to have you on whoop. And it's been such a blast to have you on the podcast. Thanks, Will. You've got a phenomenal product. I talk. I get all the time people look at my right wrist and see the whoop and are always asking about it. And I pump you guys up all the time.

I think it's an incredible device. So happy to be a part of it. So happy to be one of the first players to use it. I see some of the young guys, Rory McElroy's and these guys wearing it now, Scott Stallings, Chris Baker. Yeah, you're the trend setter, man. You're our first, you know, our first golfer. I was texting with Rory and then the weekend before Justin Thomas won too. Yeah. We won a couple tournaments in a row with Woofiel. Yeah, I think it's so cool. And, you know, I think all these guys on tour and athletes all over should be wearing it just because we travel so much, try to get yourself up, what can I do to give myself the best opportunity to play my best golf? And I think WOOP is a huge part of that. Well, love it, man. And hopefully we can

tee it up one day. It would be a blast for me. That's true. Hey, I'd love to. If you ever are coming down to Charlotte, look me up. I'd love to take you out, play golf, and we'll have a good time. All right. Amazing. Well, thanks again. Thanks for coming on, Scott. Appreciate it. Thanks, Will. Thanks again to Scott for coming on the show. And good luck to him as he tried. to capture the 2019 Charles Schwab Cup. If you're not already a WOOP member, you can join our community for as low as $30 to begin. We provide you with 24-7 access to your biometric data, as well as analytics across

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and get access to all the new Woop Live features by following the link in your Woop app. If you're out of contract, you'll literally get the 3.0 for free when you commit to another six months. Check out Woop.com slash The Locker for show notes and more, including links to relevant topics from this conversation and others. Make sure to subscribe, rate, and review the Woop podcast on iTunes, Google, Spotify, or wherever. you like to listen. We'd love to hear your feedback. You can find me online at Will Ahmed. I try to respond to everyone who reaches out. And you can also follow at Whoop on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. You can email The Locker at Whoop.com with any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions you may have. Thank you again to all our listeners, to all our Whoop members. We love you.