WHOOP Podcast - Spencer Matthews: From “Bad Boy” To Breaking World Records as an Elite Athlete

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

This week on the WHOOP Podcast, WHOOP Founder and CEO Will Ahmed welcomes TV Personality, Entrepreneur, and Endurance Athlete Spencer Matthews for a candid conversation about transformation, resilience, and pushing human limits. Spencer reflects on his early life, struggles with alcohol and fame, and the turning point that led him to prioritize health, discipline, and purpose. Through endurance challenges like running 30 marathons in 30 days and completing 7 Ironman competitions in 7 continents over 21 days, Matthews shares how consistency, mindset, and self-belief can unlock extraordinary performance. The episode blends personal storytelling with insights on recovery, training, and mental toughness, highlighting how intentional habits and perseverance can fundamentally reshape both body and life.(01:31) Who Is Spencer Matthews?: From TV Personality to Endurance Athlete & Entrepreneur(02:41) Growing Up Around Success(03:49) Spencer’s Experience with Alcoholism and Embracing The “Bad Boy” Persona(09:55) Making A Lifestyle Change: What Drove Spencer To Sobriety(12:52) The Connection Between Addiction and Endurance Athletics(20:02) From Couch to Ultra-Marathoner: Spencer’s Guide To Gaining Fitness(25:00) The Mental Aspect of Running 30 Marathons in 30 Days (29:10) How The Body Adapts To Challenge (Key Recovery Insights)(32:49) Mentally Preparing For An Ironman (Project 7)(34:58) Managing A Negative Headspace(46:17) Spencer’s Experience Using WHOOP Follow Spencer Matthews:IGTikTokUNTAPPED with Spencer MatthewsSupport the showFollow WHOOP:Sign up for WHOOP Advanced LabsTrial WHOOP for Freewww.whoop.comInstagramTikTokYouTubeXFacebookLinkedInFollow Will Ahmed:InstagramXLinkedInFollow Kristen Holmes:InstagramLinkedInFollow Emily Capodilupo:LinkedIn 

This is a really fun thing for me. I've never been to Boston. So I got to fly to Boston and experience Boston a bit. I've been wandering around. It's great. This is your first time in Boston. Obviously first time at Whoop HQ. Yes.

What's the vibe for you in the office? I think it's wonderful. It's amazing. It reminds me a little bit of not to talk about another brand, but have you been to the LinkedIn offices in Dublin? No, I haven't. Like similar vibe. You know, great big, awesome community, gym, like lots of great food kicking around.

everyone clearly likes each other. You know, it's, but no, this is wonderful. It's amazing. The whoop sign is something else. Yeah, it's a good sign. It was part of the deal when we decided to take this space because no one wanted it, believe it or not. It was 2020 and it was the dead of COVID and this was a hole in the ground and restaurants

across the street were going out of business and, you know, essentially we were being told that we were going to live on Zoom for the rest of our lives. Yeah. And that wasn't the future I wanted to live in. nor did I think it was right for whoop. So we committed to this office at a time when no one really wanted it. Well, that's kind of turned out well. Yeah, it's gone pretty well.

25th mile of the marathon as well and on the main street driving into Boston. Boston Marathon's kind of famous. Yeah. Can't drive into Boston without seeing whoop now. That's right. I'm told, you know, word on the street, literally, the whoop is one of the biggest success stories to ever come out of Boston. I suppose that's in the conversation.

Yeah. It's amazing. It's been quite a journey. I mean, congratulations to you. What a life you've lived at a young age. We're almost, we're about the same age. If you were to kind of go back to being 10 or 15 years old, would you have anticipated that you'd become this big TV personality and, you know, go through periods of addiction and go through, you know, this unbelievable endurance career you've had as an athlete and become an entrepreneur? Like, did you have any sense of this sort of wild future in front of you? Hard to predict the future, obviously, at that age. I always had confidence in my ability at that age. You know, the kind of issues and problems with that came later.

So, you know, age 10 to 15, what was I doing? I was looking up to my older brothers and people in my family, really, at that time. I lost my brother Michael when I was 10. He was 22. He was the youngest Brit to climb Mount Everest. And unfortunately, we lost him on his descent. I read that. I'm so sorry about that. Oh, it's, it's okay. It's a long time ago now, but I'm just, I'm just trying to contextualize

the answer because that was around that time in my life. And that kind of shook the family a bit, but before that, you know, to look at my two older brothers quickly, you know, Mike was an incredible person, very successful in his own right, was a tremendous trader in the city. And my brother, too, was also quite successful and had been a professional racing driver. and Formula Renault world champion, same record as Alan Prost and, you know, a British hopeful for Formula One. And so I kind of grew up in a house with, you know, brothers who could do stuff, if you know what I mean. Yeah, like hyper alpha behavior, it sounds like climbing Mount Everest and racing cars. Exactly. And, you know, my dad at that stage, my brother James jokes about having a very different childhood to me.

My dad became quite successful and, you know, wealthy, if you will, later, like around the time that I was born. So James says that, you know, we had kind of different upbringing. But, you know, I was around what some might call success, you know, during a lot of my childhood, exposed to it quite a lot. So, yeah, I did grow up with that kind of thought process that things are possible, that, you know, if you want to go and grab hold of stuff and do things you can, right? Like, well, it's your oyster vibe. Developed a really bad relationship with alcohol in my, you know, slightly later teens. And that went from being, you know, fun to really problematic throughout my 20s. And I feel like I wasted a lot of time, you know, during that time became a television

personality, a TV star, if you will. So you join Made in Chelsea, age 23. Yeah. You kind of get known as a little bit of the bad boy personality. Indeed. Yeah. What was that period like for you? Was it a bit of a rush?

Because all of a sudden you're going from being some people don't necessarily know to being recognizable. ball. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was exciting. I think, I think if we're, if we're looking at fame as a driver, that was exciting to me at the time. You know, if we're being honest, fame was, was interesting to me, you know, and before that, I wanted to be an actor and, you know, I went to USC film school, and I'd spend a lot of time with Brodie Jenner and Spencer Pratt around the time that, around the time that the hills was huge and they were being chased by paparazzi on motorcycles and being paid quite a lot to go to nightclubs and you know stuff that was fun anyway

and that's kind of where the uh the rationale for maiden chelsea uh felt fine it's kind of like well if they're doing that maybe there's money in this maybe it could be useful i wanted to use it as a stepping stone to to do other things in tv and media uh i don't think anyone was anticipating it being quite as popular as it was you know like i didn't actually think it would fly because it's like a bunch of affluent, you know, young people doing not much, right? And, you know, we're supposed to be inspiring and fun, but it was fine, interesting and worth doing, you know, until a certain point where things feel a bit structured and fake and, you know, you fall out of love with it. But in the early days, it was really fun. And, yeah, it gave us quite a big platform actually in the UK.

You know, I think a lot of the things I now enjoy would have been. harder to develop had I not done that show. I don't I look back at the show and you know it's it's a mixed response from me. I don't love the show you yourself just said that you know I had a bad boy reputation on it. It's like we were trying to create drama for for entertainment purposes right so it's kind of personas get amplified right and they they almost need to cast you as someone and everyone needs to have a like a clear identity and yeah I think we knew that if it was not interesting and we were all Pali and you know, it could be boring and it'd be cancelled. And so, you know, you'd have, everything was elevated as, as you say, you know, relationships were elevated and rushed and, you know,

lots of arguments were catalysts to stuff that may or may not really matter. And, you know, it kind of felt very fake to me past a certain point. And it's, it was a strange time, though, like the British public and its fan base, which was, which was big at the time, we're really invested in it. So, you know, these feelings that they might have towards your character on the show, even though it's a reality program, um, were pretty evident in like real life. I would always see real life as being quite a separate thing to the show. Even my relationship with certain people in the show was very different, you know, in real life to on the show. You know, we'd have huge arguments and then, you know, we'd stop rolling and give each other a high five and go to the pub and I think it was a funny scene,

you know, and but that would be amplified in the press as like a serious problem. And of course, it's not, you know. What was your relationship with alcohol during this period? Terrible. I'd drink every day. You know, I'm glad that Woop wasn't around at the time or it would have officially declared me dead. I think, no, I would have been in the red on a daily basis. I would drink. It was kind of all right, because you were, you were young.

You were out there. It was on TV. You know, everything felt like. like things were going well, right? But when you look back at it with a more nuanced and perhaps well-rounded view, you don't own anything. You're not building anything. You're just in something that is being consumed by people for their entertainment.

It's not a serious thing. Like reality TV is great if you can take it and move it into benefit you, right? Do something for you or others. you know, but build a business around it, you know, use the platform. At the time, I wasn't thinking that way at all. I was just enjoying my life. Everything was 100 miles an hour. I was drinking every single day, you know, not getting any sleep at all, really out all the time,

working in nightclubs as well. And, no, it became pretty problematic for my health. I remember I was photographed in the street by a paparazzi one day when I was changing my clothes between like a take of one thing and moving to another scene because we would often just do you know different things like like in a movie I suppose you know it wasn't all real I would tell I was changing and I was photographed in the street and I remember seeing the picture I'll get it over to you guys in case you want to see it but it was like and I remember looking at myself going like oh my goodness I'm I've like I've really like I'm an unhealthy

person right I looked like dead behind the eyes gray desperately over weight for me. Like I was probably, I was probably knocking on like a hundred kilos, which for me at five, ten is, you know, I was pretty heavy for where I like to be. And it's almost like it kind of crept up on me. Like I didn't even notice. Like you're just, you're out all night. You're eating terrible food. You're not training. You're not looking after yourself. You're not looking after your mental health or your physical well-being. And, and it kind of compounds. And then all of a sudden, I see this picture and I was like, wow. Like I had, I actually didn't realize. I looked like that, you know, which sounds crazy.

Yeah. Like, you know, it just didn't, it hit me in a kind of strange way. And I can remember thinking this, this life that I'm living is not healthy. What was the moment or period that, you know, forced you to get sober? Well, I'm not sober just in passing. I was sober for about three years. Yeah, yeah, during that period. When it was, it got, it got really quite bad.

I met my now wife. Yeah. Around a time where, you know, I was, I was drinking. very heavily partying a lot. And we, we weren't really looking for each other at the time. We did a TV show. And, and, you know, we knew we'd be very close friends. Like, we had a, we had a really great bond very early on day one. Day one, I actually told her that we'd get married. I was kind of just, you know, just taking the piss at the time. But obviously, you know, and that ended up actually happening. But, you know, she started to have quite a profound impact on me.

Like I realized, I realized that I would lose her if I carried on behaving the way that I was behaving and drinking. And, you know, she was a kind of rising star and making all these interesting documentaries and doing really cool things and traveling the world and doing. And I was like at home drunk, right? And I was just like, this, this is a mismatch. Right. She's just going to, she's going to wake up one day and just, you know, think that she should move on. And she would have been very right to. So, I don't know, I had a shocking evening one night.

I drank, you know, a whole bottle of whiskey or something. A friend of mine came over, put me to bed. And I remember it just being really embarrassing. Like he came around and literally looked at me, put my arm around him, like, walked me to my bedroom, like, lay me down. And then just walked out. And I was like, what? Like, I thought he'd coming around to, like, spend some time with me type thing. So, like, there was a huge sense of shame, right, towards the end of this dream.

I'd lost control. I think that's a really interesting point. It's like drinking alcohol, not a problem. A lot of people have their own relationship with alcohol. I'm certainly not anti-alcohol, but I think too much of anything is bad, right? And I had lost control of my ability to drink, you know, normally. And then I wanted to change for her initially. You know, I woke up the following day.

I signed up to the Marathon de Sable as punishment. That was my first ever ultra. And just I didn't touch a drop for three years. And my whole life changed. It's then that I became an entrepreneur, started to think clearly, started to prioritize health and well-being. My whole life completely changed in that time. What's up, folks, if you are enjoying this podcast or if you care about health, performance, fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop. That's right. You can check out whoop at woop.com.

It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain, and you can now sign up for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just at whoop.com. Back to the guests. I mean, did you know that you always had that, like, energy resource inside of you? Or was it just going to be a test? Like, you're going to channel, you know, an addictive personality that was pointed

towards like a bit of a party lifestyle to an addictive person. I was, you know, an amazing athlete. I think addicts make extraordinary endurance athletes. Yeah. I know a lot of addicts or ex-addicts who can run for days, you know. I've had Rich Roll on this podcast. He talks about it. I love him.

I think it's a really interesting analogy. And I think the similarity and the symmetry between those two things is interesting. There's a competitiveness in addicts, right? I think the, you know, regardless of whether or whether or not, you know, it's being channeled into the correct things or not is inherent, right? A lot of people who love drinking and love partying are quite competitive people, you know, whether they have control over what they're doing is a separate point entirely. But yeah, I've always been competitive. I always knew I can do things. I didn't realize quite the extent of it until I started to be inspired by other

athletes. So you mentioned Rich. I've read Rich's book and I was very inspired by writing. I don't know if that is. He was the hardest geyser, the ginger guy that ran across Africa. Oh, wow. Yeah. And he was like, he's not a runner, really. He is now, right? But he wasn't really then.

And like he kind of just started in South Africa, filmed the whole thing, was running 50K a day and he ran across the whole of Africa. And around that time, I was thinking, like, that's an extraordinary feat of human endurance, right? And he has a similar ish, not not. the same but similar-ish background to me with the, you know, alcoholism and the gambling in his case. And I thought, you know, I wonder what my limits are. Because at the time that I came across him, I'd done a couple of ultras, right, I'd done the marathon de Saab. I came 88th out of like 700 people out of nowhere, right? Like, I got faster as the days went on. And that was your first.

First ever. Yeah, I'd ran the odd marathon before that, but slowly and without data and without timing and, you know, the odd sub four type thing. But, you know, I'd come off those with, you know, what felt like broken knees. And, you know, I wasn't a runner, basically. You know, I hadn't ever focused on running. And went and did the Marathon de Saab, which is an incredible race. And if, you know, if anyone's listening to this and they want to just have a test of their comfort zone and push themselves somewhere, consider signing up to that.

You don't need to be an extraordinary runner. Lots of people walk it. The cut off for time is the camel at the back. right. So there's a camel that walks the whole track and anyone that has ever come across a camel. Yeah, knows that camels are, they're very slow, right? So, you know, you're not going to be overtaken by the camel. So that, that isn't really a cutoff. I mean, as I say, there is, but there isn't, you know, you're not going to, you're not going to hit it. It's an extraordinary race. You know, you're alone with your thoughts a fair amount. It's quite, there's some camaraderie as well.

You sleep kind of rough in these beaver wax and you carry everything on you for the whole six days in your background. And how far are you going? About 250 kilometers. Wow. Over five days through the desert, you know, piping hot. But it's a real, you know, it's quite a cathartic, interesting thing to do. And, you know, if you're able to do it, you should absolutely do it.

Just go and do it. Loads of people are there and it's fun. You know, you will do it. And I loved it. I did pretty well in it and loved it, signed up to a few more. And then I was looking for something else to do. And I came across Russ. And I thought, well, if he can do that, I wonder how many back-to-back marathons.

I could run and long story short got in touch with Guinness World Records because I had a friend who had done some stuff with them and and you know they worked one week or one month they don't do anything in between so and seven marathons in seven days was not a record 30 marathons and 30 days was not a record either but 30 marathons and 30 days in a desert all on sand would have been a world record and so I started to build it around that and that's how we ended up in Jordan and I did that. those, I did 30 consecutive desert marathons over 30 days with an incredible team that we then used for Project 7. And that was, that was probably the biggest shift in my life to date, like achieving that because it really helped me to understand that humans are capable of really extraordinary things, right? If you, if you take me, you know, even 10 years ago, like, it's really difficult to explain the difference. I mean, Rich does a very good job of explaining it because it's not dissimilar to him,

right? He would talk about how he was walking upstairs and he'd be out of breath and, you know, sweating profusely. Similar for me. I lived, I lived one, one story up. I'd jog up the stairs. I'd be like sweating, patches, like, you know, heavy breathing. Couldn't run 5K very well. Like if I ran like a 25 minute of 5K, I would have been in pain, you know, like just, I'm not a runner, right? So it's kind of to get to then completing third. 30 desert marathons 30 days. And it was really just a matter of putting in the work, but also really deeply believing that you can do it.

And I think so many people trip themselves up with just the thought and the blockage from believing they can't do things. That, you know, I hear it every day. I could never run a marathon. That's nonsense. Yeah. Everyone can run a marathon. You don't have to run a fast marathon.

You can just cover the distance. And then if you want to do another one, try and cover it a little faster. Yeah. You know, it's baby steps. You as an entrepreneur will know that things don't happen quickly. I was just walking around your office, looking at your Bobo, you know, the very first loop in 2012.

Yeah. I mean, it was a box like this big with a cord that came out of it and it connected to a computer and it's got this hideous Velcro strap that. But yes, I mean, everything takes time. Like you walk into whoop offices in Boston, huge whoop sign that you can see from miles away, you know, I don't know how many employees you have, but it's an incredibly impressive thing, but, you know, then you look at the bobo, right? And it would have been, and it would have been just you. And it's just interesting, right? Everything's a journey. And that's the same with,

with sports, right? You've interviewed some of the world's best athletes, you know, none of them became who they were when you talked to them quickly, right? And there's even more margin for ordinary people. Well, your story is super inspiring. And I think there's people listening to this who are like, I can't even comprehend how I would run 30 marathons in 30 days in like a desert environment. This guy is just in a different stratosphere than me. But at the same time, you're talking about a period of your life where you had trouble getting off the couch because of, you know, drinking habits or, you know, going up the stairs, you're out of breath. So clearly you weren't like, you know, some freak of nature the whole time.

And there's like, the question is, what are the, what is the first like 30 days? Forget, you know, 30 days, 30 marathots. Like the first 30 days of going from the guy who has trouble getting off the couch, you know, to eventually becoming where you are today. Like, what is the starting point? It's a boring answer, right? And it's a tale as old as time. But it's just consistency.

Like looking for quick wins and shortcuts gets you nowhere. Right. And it's a real conscious effort to try. and behave in a way that you know is good and that will eventually lead to progress. So would you just start, you just started by trying to run any distance? Sure, yeah. I just, I started by running full stop. It would be, I would go for a run and two kilometers in my knee would start to hurt, right? Just because I'm not a runner.

Yeah. Well, it wasn't a runner. But it's, it's, you know, like if we're looking to break it down into what I believe to be really healthy, I think periods of abstinence from alcohol are really helpful for me, right? I can't speak for everyone. But, you know, if we take my drinking now as a, as an example, I haven't had an alcoholic drink since December 25th of last year. So it's a good, good couple of months of clean living. That even, you know, to me, makes a monster difference. I think completely clearly. Woop would support that. Woop, I hope we have my data to hand. My Woop data currently is, is, is glorious, right? Yeah, it's beautiful. And I love it. And Woop, Woot, plays a big part in how I train and think about recovery and sleep and strain.

I love strain would be my most exciting thing about. I love, love strain. But I don't know, look, lifting weights, I think, getting fresh air, getting out of the house, whether it be walking, jogging, running, you know, abstaining from, you know, really junky food and alcohol and cigarettes, obviously, is helpful. You know, it's all things that, to be honest, isn't, it won't be the first time anyone's heard this, right? There is no substitute for just

slowly and surely doing the right thing. It's that motivation versus discipline question. You know, I am not motivated every day. You know, I think if you look at some of my recent achievements in endurance, you know, you would say, God, this guy must like have no life. You must train all the time, you know, and that's, that's not, that's not accurate. It's, you get to a certain place and then you kind of maintain it. But in order to get, you know, somewhere where you're proud of, and I think pride plays a big role in it as well, if you consistently just, just do the difficult thing, whether that be just going to the gym in the morning, having that ice bath, having the cold shower, you know, eating nice and clean, you, you will begin to feel proud of

yourself. And I think pride plays a huge part of this, you know, it's particularly for me coming from big portions of my life where I felt really ashamed of myself, you know, where like you've woken up late and you look in the mirror and you go, God, like, when you think about how awesome my brothers are or how successful my dad is, like, what the hell am I doing, right? What am I looking at here? Like some loser who's getting out of bed at 10 with nothing to do all day but go to the pub when it opens and spending time with all the wrong people. And, you know, you know what you're doing is wrong. Flip that into doing the right things.

So getting up at, you know, seven or, you know, 630, getting outside, getting some fresh getting yourself into the gym, you know, or, you know, if you can't afford a gym membership, you know, get some pushups in, some sit-ups, just do stuff that is, you know, difficult and drives you forward with momentum. And then things generally become easier, right? Like, the more you do something, the easier it becomes, you know, like I wasn't a very gifted, I'm still, I'm not a very gifted tennis player. But if you play tennis, like four times a week, you know, you're going to get better at tennis and all of a sudden you're going to be able to hit the ball properly. I've seen you on a paddle court. You can work a, you can work a racket. It's just,

it's more, it's more like, jujitsu would be a better, would be a better analogy. The more time you spend on the mat, the more time you give to the sport, the more you're rewarded with skill and the more you're able to to perform, right? Like if you, if you turn up to the dojo every morning, five times a week, in three years, you're going to be a complete killer. You know, you'll have skills that will set you up for life in, in that, you know, after three It's actually a very small price to pay. When you look at life generally, you know, like it doesn't take that long of you giving yourself to something to have that skill. Unfortunately, I'm a pretty curious person, right? I've always loved the idea of learning skills, getting better at stuff. You know,

the things that I find most fascinating in life are the things I know nothing about. I mean, one big observation just from this conversation is discipline. Like, it feels to me like you were someone who could flip a switch and say, okay, all of a sudden, this is my new path, and I'm going to wake up every day and I'm going to follow this path and I'm going to see where it takes me. And that's taking you pretty far. I mean, it's unbelievable the athletic achievements that you've had. I'm trying to picture what, you know, day 17 or, you know, day 13 of running 30 marathons in a row is like, because it's like, okay, at that point you've suffered a lot, but you're

you're not anywhere done. You know, you've got more in front of you than behind you, so to speak. Like, what, what is your mindset during something like that? It's kind of a big mental game,

isn't it? Huge, right? You know, you know that you're in it and, and, you know, almost violently ticking off day by day is obviously not the way to do it.

Because, you know, um, you know, you get through what's in front of you at the time. I, you know, I wore different shorts every five days.

You know, like, like, like, like, I had these little white shorts I would wear to mark, you know, five, 10, 15, 20. So he knew you were kind of taking on a bit.

But also, there was, so for the 30 marathons as an example, I'd love to chat to you about Project 7 if we have time. But the 30 marathons was just so cool, right? Like, so we, when I do these events, I raise money for the event through brands, right? So I'll go to brands and I'll say, look, you know, we think we can offer this level of exposure through social media, be delighted to where you're staying. it's wear your staff or whatever, you know, normal brand deals. And so we get the event itself cordoned off.

And then we attach a charity to the event and we raise a completely separate fundraise, also through brands, but also just, you know, the general public to support that particular charity. That one was for Global's Make Some Noise and we ended up raising $623,000 for children mostly who are going through difficult things. That makes it quite easy to conceptualize the kind of pain that you're in. Like, you know, I went and visited the charities before. You know, they support about 100 causes. And, you know, it's easy when you see things that really aren't fair happening to, you know, young men, women, families, you know, children with cancer. You know, sorry not to get morbid, but, you know, the pain that you're all going through is clearly, you know, a temporary thing.

And if you're able to help these people with far more, you know, urgent issues than yourself. then it does make it easier through the difficult times. Also, let's not forget, right, with running 30 marathons through Jordan, the Jordanian desert, the Wadi Rum desert, it's extraordinarily, like, picturesque and beautiful. Like the sunrise is the sunset. It's all incredible. You've got the red hot chili peppers blasting, camps moving every day. Food's nice.

The people are cool. It's camaraderie. I never know if it's camarader or camaraderie, whatever. You know what I mean? And the experience is one of immense privilege, right, as well. Like it's not available to everyone. It took a while to organize these things. Take months and months of prep.

And it's kind of net, net, it's for the greater good, right? We helped 50,000 families through that. You risk over half a million dollars, I think. Yeah. I also found out a lot about myself. So, of course, it's for me. I'm not pretending it's just for charity. Like, it's for me.

I want to do it. I love these things. But, you know, it wouldn't be worth it. I don't think if there wasn't that, you know, you know, other probably greater purpose behind it. You know, Chris Taylor, who organized the whole thing, is just a legend, a tremendous athlete. You know, we would listen to, we'd lie in the sand at night with the sunseting, listening to incredible albums and, you know, eating hummus every day.

And it's like, it's an experience that I'll never forget, right? So it's easy to look at these things as, God, that must be painful. That must be really difficult. But it's also incredibly beautiful. and something that I would do again. You know, like I'd love to do that again. It was one of the best times of my life, but also just the greater thought process behind it of this,

I can't believe this is happening. And, you know, when you start to find a rhythm and your body begins to adapt to the Saturday, I chucked off 12 kilos of like muscle and fat, I was like, but then you start to move through the sand easier. The later marathon is probably easier than the earlier ones, right? because you begin to just, I think the mind and the body not to get too deep on biology, because I'm certainly not that guy.

But it's incredible how the human mind and body can respond to things, right? In the simplest sense, obviously, you go to the gym every day, you lift heavy weights, you're going to gain muscle, you'll get bigger, providing your diet and recovery is on point. But also as a survival mechanism, it's amazing how fast your body will adapt to scenarios that you're in. I was on Everest for five weeks, making a film about my late brother trying to find his body with Nims Persia, who you've probably spoken to from 14 peaks. And we made a film called Finding Michael for Disney. And up there, the air is so thin. The carrying around muscle is pointless.

So your body understands that. And it just gets rid of it. Everyone that was there for five weeks didn't, we didn't do anything. We were sat at base camp. We didn't, we didn't, we didn't climb. I didn't climb. my mother would have been just like beside herself if I'd gone through the kumbu icefall or anything looking for Mike because obviously he is dead and she doesn't want to lose another child but like my body literally just disposed of muscle just said this is pointless up here you don't need it it's gone boom I lost a stone right just sitting around eating all day so it is incredible and the same thing in the desert you know my body just went you don't need these shoulders right gone let's get rid of them what what led to Project 7 Just, as I say, life changed in the desert, came out, you know, with an even greater sense of exploration and wanting to push limits and boundaries.

And, you know, that's when you've very kindly been a guest on my podcast Untapped, which is all about kind of human limits and potential and, you know, achieving extraordinary things. I think I personally have always thought for a long time that the hardest day in sports is an Iron Man. I've never done one before. or I had never done one before. And my brother, again, James has, and he's ran countless marathons. I've followed a fair amount in James's path, and I think he's an incredible person. And so I kind of knew that I wanted to do an Iron Man. And around that time, I was invited to do a marathon in each continent in seven days,

so seven marathons in seven days, which is possible, obviously, because the marathon is not particularly time-consuming. So you can get the travel in as well. And I just thought, oh, wouldn't it be interesting to look at a full Ironman in every continent in as shorter time frame as possible? Got Googling and Connor Eminie, a guy who lives just north from here actually, he's Canadian, is the only person in history to have ever done that, right? An Ironman, a full Ironman in every continent. And he did it in just under four years. I think he was interrupted by COVID and Conner's a tremendous athlete, so, you know, could obviously do it faster.

but I'm not sure he was racing anyone. It was more just a one, he wanted to be the first. And I thought, you know, what's the absolute fastest we could do this? And got chatting to Chris and we felt that 21 days was about as fast as anyone could do that, including, of course, to travel. You know, there's, we went from London to Arizona, Cape Town, Perth, Dubai, Rio, Antarctica, which is obviously a big kind of, you know, figure of eight around the world. We tried to limit the flying east to west as much as possible.

Sorry, we tried to limit the flying west to east as much as possible because you're gaining time and it's eating into your recovery, you know, twice as much, basically. And we started having fun with it. Started thinking about it in February and we were doing it in November. I guess at that point you felt your body was ready. I mean, I guess you never questioned that. You're kind of like, give me the day. and I'll be there.

I see all these things as a, as a real mental challenge. Obviously, there's a lot of physicality to it. The fact that I had never done an Iron Man was troubling me a little bit in the days leading up to the first one. Because there's always that, there's always that's a great attitude. There's always that like what happens if I just can't do it, right? It's kind of, that's the issue.

I knew I was very physically fit. I knew I could run really fast and, and, you know, I knew that I could keep, you know, even at threshold, I can keep a relatively low heart rate for, you know, several hours. And so I knew there's a good bank of fitness there. Hadn't spent any time swimming really. In the lead up to it, I, of course, did some swimming. You know, we went on holiday to Spain for a bit and I swam 4K most days for, you know, for a couple of weeks type thing just to see how it went. But even after the very first swim, I was like, okay, this is fine.

You can kind of, you know, you can float your way through it. I don't need, yeah, exactly. Yeah, where's the current? No, I don't, I don't have to be an extraordinary swimmer or an amazing cyclist. I don't think to pull this off. I need to be able to sustain awfully long periods of time, you know, throughout the day in potentially some negative headspace, which I'm really good at. You know, it's kind of how I saw it.

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to join the wait list, visit our website or the health tab in the WOOP app. How do you manage negative headspace? Rationalize it, I suppose. I'll give you an example of kind of the worst possible headspace that I've ever been in, and that was during Project 7. Easily the most life-threatening and worst part about it came to me in Cape Town. Antarctica had all kinds of issues as well, but Antarctica's like incredible but Cape Town and that was kind of at the midpoint yeah Cape Town was the

third yeah and so did London which was okay pretty rough like you know the weather was shocking and it's like you know where you are it's hometown so it's kind of it's actually not an advantage because you know just how long like the thing is because like you're in Hyde Park and you know you've got 18 laps or whatever it's just like I can't really have got to run 18 laps of high part having done that you know cycle we we did we do that we do it. recycled around a one kilometer loop in this park and 180 times. So, so like, you know, it was, it was a bit of a, it messed with my mind a bit, that one. Got to Arizona, did the official Iron Man event, long story short, got to the end of that. It must have been 10 p.m. because, you know,

you start, nine or whatever it was, finished around 10, you know, pick up your bag, get back to the hotel. It's 1045, had a quick bite to eat, got to bed at maybe midnight, left the hotel at four in the morning, I think, to go to Cape Town. Two flights to get there. So like a change, you're sleeping on the floor in the airport, obviously just on two ironmen. Then arrive in Cape Town, I think it was 10pm in Cape Town time. And then at 5 a.m. I'm in the water again. So like, there's no... So you weren't taking any breaks. There's no rest, right? So these two in particular, so Arizona, Cape Town, Perth was... You're flying the wrong way. And so there's no time to rest at all. You get a little bit of hotel time, but not really, like, you know, three, four hours type thing.

And by the time you get there, you're just exhausted. So anyway, I can feel like achy just from listening to this. I arrive at the beach in Cape Town and it's freezing. And when I say freezing, it's like it's really unpleasant, right? I'm in my wetsuit. Normally, or my experience of this stuff, when you're in your wetsuit fully zipped up, you're quite hot. Like, you're actually looking forward to getting into the water because it's quite a thing to be wearing.

I get down to the beach, it's freezing cold and pitch black. It's 4.45 in the morning. everyone's asleep. Dark, dark, dark, dark, dark. You can just hear the water a bit. And it's cold, like cold, cold, cold. To the point where you know that, like, if you jump in the water, you're going to feel freezing.

And I hate, you know, we're both fans of ice baths. I, you know, when you spend too long in an ice bath and you get out and it goes wrong, I could just feel that already, right? Like I had that kind of, I didn't have any internal warmth going into this thing. Everything fell off. I'd had a conversation in the car with the guy driving us there talking about rabid seals. He said you shouldn't worry about the white sharks. You should worry about the rabid seals. And I was like, seals with rabies. He was like, yeah, so there's an outbreak of rabies. The seals are

attacking people. I was like, great. We'll add that to you guys. I literally said like I don't know why you would tell me that. Yeah, it's an incredibly irritating thing to hear, right? And I wasn't happy to all about it, actually. This is the closest I've ever felt to death, basically. I jumped in the water. I knew things were wrong straight away. Can't even see your, your, your, your watches, freezing, freezing, like it was, the water was seven degrees. I don't do Fahrenheit, so maybe convert it. But yeah, that's cold. Very cold, right? Like a cold water swim is around this temperature. Started having these kind of feelings of panic and I don't really feel much. Like I'm, I've just made a film about psychopathy, like the psychopathic mindset. I interviewed a bunch

of psychopaths and had a psychopath test done on myself. The film comes out soon, so I won't spoil anything but I don't really feel things like a normal person like I don't I don't feel much fear or anxiety or like I'm quite a like things are just quite clear and logical to me like this is the right thing to do that's the wrong thing cool you know I don't I don't have a lot of internal debate internal debate or process emotions particularly well right um dove in the water had a big problem right straight away and like I felt very panicky which is incredibly unusual for me. Like completely foreign feeling and kept swimming and just,

you know, kind of got over that initial thing. But you just feel so exposed, right? You're in this pitch black water. It's freezing. And like you just feel like any second now, something,

you know, horrendous is going to happen. And then, anyway, lost sensation in both arms, both legs. Couldn't speak. Oof.

Like, couldn't swim, basically, at all. And I'm kind of floating around with about at this stage, had about a kilometer left to go. Seals were in the water kind of like jumping over me. We filmed the whole thing. We've got a film coming out. But it's like it felt like a really, felt like a like a really dramatic moment, right? And to answer your question, how do you get

through? So rationalizing it is really helpful. And I flipped over onto my back. I just thought, okay, it's seven degrees, not zero degrees. Even if I feel early onset hypothermia and I get out, I will be able to save it with heat, right? I'm not going to be like straight to hospital. because like I'm technically speaking, you know, I can easily survive this. There hasn't been a great white, you know, shark attack here in 50 years. So why would there be on this morning? If these seals were rabid, you know, they would have bitten me by now. I just need to swim one kilometer.

It's not 3.8. You know, so all of these things and you process them and then, like, you know, got out and couldn't speak. And there's a big scene in the film where it's like touch and go as to whether or not we're going to carry on. But I don't know, there was a few moments like that throughout the course of Project 7. But I don't know, just again, you know, it comes back to life experience. And, you know, it was, it was awesome. So it sounds like you have a natural disposition to not being phased, so to speak. But then it also seems like you do have some internal dialogue that's around, you know, it's not going to be that bad.

Or there's, I can push it all the way up to this line. You know, I mean, even just, even if I have hypothermia, like, I'll be able to warm myself up or I can't be full hypothermia, you know, like just hearing that dialogue is, is, I think the more you lose, the more you lose your ability to think clearly and the more you let panic seep in, the less you're going to be able to help yourself. I think that's entirely true. I think that a lot of people, there's a lot of people who I think don't feel like they can control that anxiety. And so the idea of having certain tools or inner dialogue that can shift that conversation from being, I'm getting out of the water and this event's over to, I'm going to be lying on my back in the water for a minute here. Yeah. I'm going to process how badly this could really go.

But I'm going to carry on. I mean, that's like, you know, that's a huge fork. There's more to it as well. And it's quite a difficult thing to explain. But since my brother died and almost since the Marathon de Sardin, the experience I was telling you, about it almost feels like, I don't know how to say this without sounding kind of like it's my world, right? But like I think about things sometimes about things being your time and things that you're doing and the reality of what death would actually be, right? And am I going to get taken by a shark here and die or not?

You know, and in reality, I'm sure that's not the case, right? You'd have to be quite unlucky. And, you know, that's not to say that I won't ever die in some freak accident. But Project 7 really felt full of purpose and drive. And it certainly didn't feel like my time to go. And I'm not a hugely religious person, but I would call myself spiritual, perhaps. You know, I love this thing called Thin Space. I did a show about pilgrimage.

And I learned about thin space from this incredible priest. and she told me that thin space is this kind of moment between heaven and earth that, you know, some people can experience from time to time. And it's not even, it's attainable to everyone. It could be just a beautiful sunset, a lovely view, a gust of winds, you know, on the back of your neck that reminds you of someone you've lost or something that feels a little bit supernatural. These events are full of moments like that, right, where you just feel so done.

Like, you're just done, but somehow you run a marathon. It's probably easier to access that thin space when you're depleted a little too. Yeah, exactly. The cycle in Antarctica, we won't touch on the swim because I just spoke about the swim in Cape Town, but the swim in Antarctica was just like horrendous as well, right? Zero degrees, awful. The bike took nearly 19 hours. It was on a mountain bike, on a rough road, 200 meters out, 200 meters back,

holes in the road everywhere, ice everywhere, 11 kilometers an hour. A little sketchy probably. Yeah, 11 kilometers an hour I averaged. on the bike just slow, slow, slow, listening to like Taylor Swift. Like just like thumpy like pop songs just to like. Something playful. Yeah, exactly something just to lighten the mood. And when I got off that bike, I literally like having just done the swim,

which was incredibly like the level of cortisol coursing through my system during that swim would have been a joke, right? Just so much stress. I'd feared about that swim for like nearly for nine months. I've been so worried about leopard seals and zero degree water. and freezing and only being the third person ever to have attempted something like that, blah, blah, blah, you know, and that came out and I felt just so drained. And then did the bike.

And then after the bike, I lay down and, like, I was just so energyless and just, like, screwed, basically. I'd been going for like a day and a half, like the full Iron Man. Not to mention the last 20 days, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's the last point and everything. And then you've got to run a marathon. Yeah, and you've got to run the marathon.

And then, you know, I started running the marathon. And I literally just, I felt at times like, and again, I don't want to sound wishy-washy or like whatever. But I literally felt like my brother was kind of running with me. Like Mike was there. I just had these like moments of energy. Like I had energetic moments where I started running like normal pace around. And I was just like, where is this coming from? Because like literally two hours ago, I was like lying on the floor just thinking like,

I know I'm going to do this marathon because it's the last thing that stands between me and this record but like God I have no idea how it's going to happen right and then like all of a sudden you're just thumping around. Yes I don't know I just think um I think everything sometimes

lines up um and I just think like you know these things really make me feel like life is an incredible thing to to be in right we're all so lucky and I don't know I love I love this style of event because it's not about being close to the edge or like nearly dying or anything like

that it's more just experiencing interesting and exciting things you know that's what i hope the future holds you're an interesting whoop case study because like in the earliest days of starting whoop i thought of people who over trained you know where essentially your mind lets you you know push yourself well past where your body should be and and so i had this romanticized image of like very hardcore people you know, investing in recovery. And now, of course, we've got a very wide audience of people on whoop. But you are kind of that OG person from the very early days of the whoop. Anyway, I'm very grateful that you're on the product.

And I'm curious how you think about recovery in your life and use whoop for that matter. I love the product. I'm not just saying that because I've flown all the way to Whoop HQ and to spend time with you. I love it. I love it. I've tried, I don't mind saying as well. I'm sure you won't either. I've tried different wearables and, you know,

whooop's the one. How do I think about recovery? We were just having an interesting discussion before you walked in, actually, about how I've got Tokyo Marathon coming up next weekend and how you can turn your recovery off, you know, just in case it serves you up a low yellow or a red or something, gets in your head. You know, I don't think that that actually would have too much impact on the race. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, everyone loves a green recovery, let's be honest.

That's true. And I was having a bit of a whinge this morning because I feel I've been shortchanged into a low yellow today. So because of the time difference, right? Sleep consistency, which we discussed on untapped, can't be consistent if you're traveling. Right. So like, it's hard. I got my eight and a half hours last night. But at the same time as London, but five hours apart.

So I went to sleep at the same time. But obviously it now has me as a like 30% sleep pattern, which I can see. to say I found deeply distressing. But now, I'm kind of joking. How do I think about recovery? I don't know. I think I listen to my body a lot. You know, if my,

and obviously, Woop does a very good job of telling me how I'm recovering and stuff. If I'm pushing really, really hard, I can feel it, obviously, you know, and what I love about running particularly is there are different

styles of runs for different ways of feeling, you know, like I love a recovery run. You'll be familiar with what a recovery run is, obviously. But, you know, if you've been really hammering fast miles, you know,

over long distance, and your body feels a bit broken, like a slow 8K at, you know, a very conversational pace, will actually help your body, right? It will help process, you know, the pain that you're in. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, you won't find many days now where I don't run. But, you know, I think about recovery mostly to do with sleep, you know, like I think. What are your sleep habit?

Sounds like you get a lot of sleep. I try and get eight hours a night between 730. and 8.30, 8.30 being a big healthy sleep, but, you know, I won't always get 8.30. I'll get 830 if I'm on my own. And for the non-whoopers listening to this, that's like you're probably dedicating eight to nine hours in bed to get that quality of sleep, right? Yeah, I'll be in bed at like 9.30 every night. I'm not, I don't live the exciting life that I used to. You've slowed down in some ways and sped up in others. Indeed. But I think, you know, one, wouldn't be as good without the other, I think, you know, if I had always lived this way, you know, there might be parts of me that want the other thing or, you know, want to go out

and want to, you know, I've done that. You've checked that box. I've done enough of that for everyone, I think. So, you know, there's certainly no debt left. Anything in the, the Woop Journal that you've kind of identified as helpful or hurtful or anything in your life, you've kind of realized, oh, I shouldn't eat this thing or this supplement helps or, you know, you talked about. But sleep consistency, obviously that's a big one. Sleep consistency is good. I don't know. Do you know a company called Heights?

You guys would work well together. There's a founder called Dan Marie Serta, who's brilliant. He's like, he speaks your language. I feel when I'm talking to you, I called you a genius earlier, not to, not to blow smoke. I don't think I deserve that. You're a very, no, but what I mean is like you and Dan speak a similar language. Like, you're founders of a certain kind, right? Sure.

I would be a different style who I don't speak your guy's language so much but you'd love him. So Dan was a insomniac for a while and he had a really bad relationship with sleep and he would go to Holland and Barrett and he would spend 200 pounds on monthly supplements and only to find that they don't reach your colon, which is where they're supposed to get to. And then he developed a capsule that essentially doesn't break down in your stomach acid that does go the whole way to where it's supposed to be. and he created a company called Heights, reach your heights, and they do magnesium and stuff. So you take some of that? I take magnesium and I take stuff for,

he does brain food and gut food and stuff. So I take that on a daily basis. I love him. I invested in him. And, you know, I think that that's a great brand. Recently, I've been paying a bit of attention to cortisol,

you know, the stress hormone, which I never had before. I was a big advocate for fasting. And I still am, I think, it depends. I think if you're, if you're in a big training block and you're really pushing yourself for performance,

fasting perhaps is quite a difficult thing to sustain. You know, it's almost like ragging your Audi RS6 around the track with inadequate amounts of oil. We were talking about bagels earlier. Yeah, lovely. Bagels, God. And no, I had a chat to a friend of mine called Josh Rose, who has a, who has gyms in the UK. And he just said potentially your cortisol could be high. Like if you're putting your body under numerous stress sources, so like if you're fasting and training really hard and having lots of caffeine front-loading it in the morning, you know, to avoid calories, basically. He said it's quite possible that you'd have quite high levels of cortisol even if you don't

feel stress. So his advice was to have a bagel every morning. So to break fast as soon as you wake up. And also I think that I found that makes a massive difference as well recently is fueling during training. Never done that before. Oh, cool. And recently I've been doing like big, heavy long runs and just like fueling gels during the

training sessions. I'd always just save those for the race. But actually, you get so much more out of your training. Well, man, this has been awesome hanging with you. I feel like I could talk to you for hours. When are some of these different documentaries and, you know, different events coming out? The Spencer Matthews Am I a Psychopath documentary is coming out on Channel 4. I'm going to tune into that for all of Earth.

It's good. When's that come out? It's really exciting, actually. And it's interesting. There's nothing more stigmatized in the world than psychopathy. and I'm not even suggesting I'm pro or con, but it's a big scale and it's a really interesting scale, psychopathy and comes with an awful lot of kind of nuance.

But anyway, sorry, so that is in its final stage of development now and should come out relatively soon. Sorry, I can't give you a date, but I'll let you know. Sue, we'll put it in the show notes. In the coming months. And then we have, we're just shopping a sizzle round for Project 7. at the moment. Oh, amazing. Yeah. So it's, uh, hopefully we'll be with you soon as well. Spencer, thanks for doing this. Thank you, my friend. If you enjoyed this episode of the WOOP podcast,

please leave a rating or review. Check us out on social at WOOP at Will Ahmed. If you have a question to us answered on the podcast, email us, pottcasto.com. Call us 508, 443-9552. If you think about joining whoop, you can visit Woop.com. Sign up for a free 30-day trial membership. New members can use the code will W ILL, W ILL, to get a $60 credit on WOOP accessories when you enter the code at checkout. That's a wrap, folks. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green.