WHOOP Podcast - Sue Bird, 4-Time Olympic Gold Medalist and 3-Time WNBA Champion, on winning at every level, how a willingness to change has helped her extend her career, and why she'd like to see the women's national team play a game against celebrities.

Episode Date: October 1, 2019

Basketball legend Sue Bird discusses what's enabled her to have so much success for so long (4:37), the boxes she needs to check in order to perform at her best (11:29), the value of sometimes skipping practice to rest (14:59), whether or not morning shootarounds cause unnecessary strain (22:01), coffee naps and pre-game caffeine (26:51), using blood flow restriction to help strengthen her ailing knee (33:51), game-time adrenaline and how to fake it (37:05), what it's like being a world-class athlete couple (41:42), the effect alcohol has on her WHOOP data (54:11), stress and cardiovascular strain (55:34), her goal of having the women's national team play against celebrities (1:04:57), why NBA players respect WNBA players more than average Joes (1:06:33), and the lowest recovery she's ever had on WHOOP (1:15:44). Support the showFollow WHOOP: www.whoop.com Trial WHOOP for Free Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

We discovered that there were secrets that your body was trying to tell you that could really help you optimize performance, but no one could monitor those things. And that's when we set out to build the technology that we thought could really change the world. Welcome to the Whoop podcast. I'm your host, Will Ahmed, founder and CEO of Whoop, where we are on a mission to unlock human performance. Our clients range from the best professional athletes in the world, to Navy SEALs, to fitness enthusiasts, to Fortune 500 CEOs and executives. The common thread among WOOP members is a passion to improve.

What does it take to optimize performance for athletes, for humans, really anyone? And now that we've just launched all-new Woopstrap 3.0 featuring WOOP Live, which takes real-time training and recovery analysis to the next level, you're going to hear how many of these users are optimizing their body with whoop and with other things in their life. On this podcast, we dig deeper. We interview experts. We interview industry leaders across sports, data, technology, physiology, athletic achievement, you name it. How can you use data to improve your body? What should you change about your life? My hope is that you'll leave these conversations with some new ideas and a greater passion for performance. With that in mind, I welcome you to the

Whoop podcast. So I played for a coach who didn't have shoot-around. The whole premise was to sleep more, especially when you're a West Coast team traveling to the East Coast, it can get funky because your shoot-around time's going to be at 10 to 7 a.m. So we never had shoot-around out the whole year. It was optional. So players who needed the extra work, maybe didn't get the same game minutes as others, they could go use the court time, totally optional.

And yeah, I found that I felt amazing that whole year. What's up, folks? We have a good one today. My guest is Sue Byrd, one of the most successful basketball players to ever step on the court. Dating back to our high school state championship, she has won on every level. She's a four-time Olympic gold medalist, a four-time world champion, a three-time WMBA champion, a five-time EuroLeague champion, and a two-time NCAA title winner at Yukon. In fact, her record at Yukon, was 114 and 4. That's winning. Sue is also a Woop member who's been on the product for close to three years now. So this has been a long time coming to get to spend time with Sue. And we talk about how she's embraced new technology and adapted her mindset to allow her to continue competing as the oldest player in the WMBA. The winning attitude she's had since childhood and how she's been able to bounce back from multiple knee injuries and why she'd like to see the U.S. women's national team play against celebrities at the NBA All-Star game. That was a fun one.

There's a lot here. Sue is an amazing guest and a real pleasure to talk to you. I think you're going to find this conversation very insightful. Before I introduce Sue, this month, Woop has teamed up with Joe Rogan and fellow comedians Burt Kreischer, Ari Schaefer, and Tom Segura for sober October to see how sobriety impacts sleep, recovery, and overall wellness. That's right, they're going 31 days cold turkey, no booze, no bud, no drugs, all powered by Whoop. I'm going sober. You can join me and this wild crew. And as part of our community, you'll get a live look at their progress via the Whoop Leaderboard, and you'll have a chance to join Team Sober October to monitor your own sobriety and impact.

So check out the show notes to learn more or visit soberoctober.wop.com and make sure to listen to their podcast to hear all about their data and experiences getting sober with whoop. And now here's Sue. Sue, welcome to the whoop podcast. Thanks for having me. It's really cool getting to spend time with you because I think it was two or two and a half years ago that I discovered that you were on whoop.

And you had, like, thrust your arm up at a big sports conference. And I all of a sudden got all these text messages because you said something very flattering about the product and how it had helped you think about your body. For you, what does it mean today to still be playing basketball and still competing at a really high level? Good question. I think for me right now, it's a testament to being willing to change and, you know, that longevity aspect of it. it for me personally, and I think it's safe to say for a lot of older players, those that at the end of their career, you have to be willing to change, which is not easy for athletes. You know, we kind of get stuck in like, what always worked for us. So you have to kind of have an open

mind. And I'm lucky to have people around me who help me do that. But I think that's what playing right now actually means. It's that willingness to be open-minded. And what sorts of things come to mind for you in terms of being open-minded? Probably nutrition sticks out. as one. So there's been a shift for you there. Yeah, there's been a shift. And it wasn't that I was like eating like crap all the time or anything. It was just I definitely, the way I like to explain it to people who may not know is as an

athlete, you're just constantly fueling for the workout and then refueling afterwards. And then it's just this cycle. So it's like it's not, yes, it is what you eat, but it's more so when and why. So that part, I had to learn a lot about that. I wasn't doing that part. I was actually under eating. When I first met with a nutritionist, I was under eating by like, I think. thousand calories. I said no idea. And is that something that's more common in women's sports

versus men's sports? Or it's just random? Yeah, no, I don't know. I don't know. I think it's just like a random thing. I think I thought, I love breakfast, so that was never an issue. And lunch was kind of like, oh, if I get to it. And then dinner was a must. So I was like skipping this meal a lot. And it wasn't that I just never viewed it as fuel. I just kind of went about my day. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, stupid. Well, okay. So nutrition, you've gotten more focused on. How about things related to recovery? Yeah, so like my workout regimen is very much, you want to push it to a certain limit, but not overdo it. So it's finding that balance, connected to recovery and like what works for you.

For me personally, it's very much predicated on my sleep, which I've come to find out. You know, things like Norma Tech and, you know, using the hypervulke gun and those are great. And yes, it can all, like, facilitate. But for me, if I don't have my sleep, it won't matter. So you're a big sleeper. Yeah. I mean, I tried to be. So before Whoop came into your life, what were you doing around sleep?

Sleeping. Well, yeah. I was. So, okay, so you'd go to bed. Sleep was never a problem for me. So did you have any concept, though, of what was good or bad for sleep? No. You just knew it was important.

Yeah, I just knew. I knew I liked it. Like, I knew my body knew. It was weird. I'm like game day, I'm like clockwork. Like when I take a nap, like my body just knows, like, okay, you need a little bit more. Oh, interesting. As I've gotten older, that's changed a little bit, but I've never, sleep has never been a

problem for me. So I guess when I don't get good sleep, I notice it. And that was kind of a, like, before whoop, that was like, I knew. I was like, oh, when I don't sleep well, I don't feel well. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And for you, like, I mean, you've had this incredible career. Like, you've literally won it every single level.

You were on a college team that only lost four games. Something like that, yeah. What is, what is it about winning for you? Like, is that something that you kind of always had programmed in? Or is it just the constant pursuit? Like, what is it? No, I think, I think in some ways it's always been programmed in. I think growing up, I mean, there's stories in my family of me, like, cheating at every, like, Candyland.

You name it, I was cheating at it. You know, and I think when you're younger, you don't know how to, you're just trying so hard to, like, have it end up go your way that, yeah, you cheat and you do things to, you know, or you're a sore loser. I was a big-time sore loser growing up. That was something I had to learn how to deal with. Classic story is attract me, like, four by one. I don't know, I'm probably like seven. Who knows? Yeah.

And I'm like the fourth leg and it's, you know, they round the corner and I turn back to look to get the baton. And then when I look back, I see that, like, everybody else is. already passed and my teammates like the so we were dead last I took the baton threw it on the floor walked off I was like I'm like why am I even finishing this were last oh wow so obviously I had to you know not cheat and then also learn how to do with losing and but at the end of the day I think it was just kind of in me from from day one and I just always was trying to win now at each level did you know you wanted to get to the next level like when you're in high school where you're like I'm going to be the best in

college when you're in college you're like I'm going to be the best professionally Or is it not that thought out? No, no, not for me. I think, you know, to be the best, I don't know that those kinds of thoughts really crossed my mind. It was more like what I have found for me in my career. It's more like, what can I do to help us win? And usually that's being like the best version of yourself.

But for me, and it's totally played out this way. Like I'm a point guard. I'm definitely pass first. I'm definitely a leader. I'm like a corraler, if you will. Like that's definitely my role. role on almost every single team I've been on. When I'm out there, my goal is to make it easy for everybody else. And I found that, like, if I'm the best version of myself in that, and then

my teammates are then able to be their best versions, we're probably, like, good things are probably going to happen. And so that's really what I focus on. I don't focus on, like, I'm trying to get MVP or I want to be WMBA first team. I've literally never thought those things. You strike me as someone who's very process oriented. It helps, yeah. I make a lot of lists. Yeah. So, because there's, I mean, I've interviewed a lot of, a lot of successful people and a lot of athletes. And I feel like there's sort of two camps of how people think about winning. One camp is, it's sort of like the score takes care of itself. You know that book by Bill Walsh, the famous 49ers coach.

And he's, you know, he had this philosophy that the score takes care of itself. It's not actually about focusing on the score. It's about focusing on all these little details that lead up to ultimately the outcome. And if you just do all these little things, well... It'll work out for you. Yeah, the outcome, the outcome happens. And then there's a second group, which I almost think of as like it's sort of a visionary point of view, which is this visualization of I'm going to be this best person 10 years down the road or 15 years down the road or whatever. And that to me is also pretty incredible.

It seems like those people have pretty maniacal parents too. Like if you listen to like Andre Agassi or Tiger Woods or right like there was something program there that was a little different but it was also looking further out does any of that resonate for you? The process part does. Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely an aspect of like I get my confidence from knowing and and well just I get my confidence from knowing that I've like checked off the boxes. Totally. That I need to check off to play well.

Now is there it's not always easy to figure out what those boxes are. and they change as you go through your career. But for the most part, you know, it's funny, I joke with, I have a strength coach and I joke with her. It's like, I don't even need to be on the basketball court all that much. Like, at this point, like, I know how to shoot. Don't get me wrong.

You've got to be in rhythm. Totally. But I know how to pass. I know how to shoot. I know, like, you know, the game of basketball inside and out. I just need to make sure my body is ready to go. I love that. Because, like, that's the vehicle for all that other stuff.

Like, that other stuff doesn't matter. So as I go through, currently I'm going through a rehab. And as I go through it, it's like the basketball part. I mean, yeah, at the end, I obviously have to get on the court at some point and do basketball like things. But none of it will matter unless I check off all these other boxes. Yeah, that's a very wood mindset, too, is this idea of just like making sure that your body is optimal for the moment less so than all these other things related to it. And sometimes I find that, you know, you can trick yourself in a way, right? Like, in example, the way it would go is last year it was the finals.

We were in the WMBA finals. We go on to win, but I got to admit, thanks. I got to admit, when we got to that final series, like, I was not well. Like, just, it was a lot of games in a short period of time. Yeah, my body was struggle bus. But, like, I still just, like, kept the routine going. And even though, I mean, I felt like crap, I was able to almost, like, trick myself. Because that's, again, like I said, where I get my confidence from.

I was like, nope, you did all these things. You'll be fine. You know, like, you'll be fine. So let's talk about. some of those of those things. So when you were in the in the finals, right, what's the first thing you do when you wake up in the morning? I mean, I take the first step and I'm like, what's today going to be like? And in terms of feeling how your body is. Yeah, exactly. Because my, my Achilles heel, if you will, is my lefni. So I have like crazy arthritis. I've had six

surgeries on it, like mostly major surgeries. And so that like generally, speaking the rest of my body it's okay especially for i'm about to be 39 in like a month like i'm doing all right the rest of my body that knee though that knee's like 105 yeah so that first step is is the knee that's what i'm talking about yeah no i get it and and by the way you look very young yeah i get that a lot yeah like you look like you're in your 20s i joke i played in russia for like yeah 10 years i play in seattle in the summer um there's no my my face is not getting sunlight it's just not you think that's that's a part of it Yeah, because my girlfriend, Megan, plays soccer, and she's had, like, crazy, oh, man, I'm putting her on, I'm putting her on blast right now.

She actually takes care of her skin. She does a great job, but she has crazy sun damage, and it's just a constant. Yeah, it's like a constant exposure, no matter how much sunscreen, it's going to sweat off. Does she wear a sunblock during the games? She wears, I mean, she has a whole procedure. Yeah, a whole routine. Yeah, there's a whole situation happening to just even, like, counteract. Whereas for me, I'm like, seeking the sun.

I'm like, where is it? Yeah, right, because you're never out there. Get me out in it, yeah. Okay, so you get out of bed and you take one step. Yeah. You double click on your knee. Right. And if that's not feeling great, there isn't much that I change.

I just know that, okay, today I might need to give, like, it's some extra love. So maybe sometimes I have a Norma Tech in my house. It might be that. It's just kind of like whatever I'm feeling. I might need to phone roll a little extra more, like that kind of stuff. And will you do that literally right after getting out of bed? No, I mean, no. It'll come a little bit later.

Yeah, it's more like, I'm thinking more like, all right, I just got to the gym, we have practice, what do I need to do to get ready for practice? Or you know what? Some days I will be like, raise my hand and I'm like, I can't go today. It'll just be better for me not to go today. Good for you. Yeah, that took a while. That takes a long time. But see, that strikes me as the kind of maturity that you probably build up to over time. Yes. And there's a trust element. If you're talking about a team's practice, you have to have, there has to be trust there with you and the coach and with the team and with your teammates. So when my team look over and they see me sitting on the side or maybe I'm just on the bike peddling they're like okay

like she couldn't go today yeah it's not like oh slacker you know now how much though of that do you think you have to earn probably all of it yeah because what's hard about being i don't know a year or two into the league is you haven't necessarily proven yourself on that level yeah you could you know have the reputation of being that rookie who's going out a little too much or whatever so it's it's actually you you recognize how culturally that's tough, too. It can be, yeah. I mean, and then I guess, like, when you're 20, if you're a 21, 22-year-old rookie, like, do you need to sit out practice?

Like, is your- So your argument would be you probably don't need to say that. You probably, yeah, you're physically. I mean, don't mean, wrong, there's injuries that happen. But I'm not talking about injury. I'm talking to just about. General management. Yeah, like the day before, you know, maybe I went a little too hard or, I mean,

there's been, sadly, there's, so last year, health-wise, I had a pretty good year. Like, it went well. But there were still three games, I think, where I woke up the morning of the game and I was like, I'm not going to be able to go. Yeah, wow. Yeah, like one of them was kind of more of a,

I got like hit the game before and my back kind of spasmed. So that was different. That's like I woke up. Like I was literally like, you know, like robotic. Like my back had spasm and it's, you know, sometimes that takes. Yeah, that's tough.

It's got to run its course. Yeah. But the other two games were my knee. It was like, ooh, something feels weird. And I found with, My knee in particular, obviously, is very special to me. Sometimes it just gets a little pissed off. Like it's a little inflamed?

Yeah. You just feel it. Yeah, you just feel it. And the best thing for me is to just shut it down for a day and then I'll be fine. But if I try to go through that day, it could linger for a week. Well, this is why you're still playing at such an elite level. I mean, you have to have such a relationship with your body. Yeah.

Yeah. Let's go back to the routine for a second. Okay. So you wake up in the morning. You talked about being someone who makes a lot of lists. is that something you're looking at in the morning or what it just depends the lists are more like you know my grocery store list or so just general management of your life yeah so like today I had I actually had an appearance that I had to go to this morning okay and then after that I had

I'm still doing some some rehabby physical therapy thing sure so I just hit that up we're doing this podcast and then I have my actual workout after so this morning that's like your calendar yeah so this morning I just kind of sat down I was like what clothing am I going to need Okay, kind of plan the day. Yeah, like, should I make my protein shake now? This is going to make me sound insane, but, you know, should I make this protein shake now? Or should I, like, right before I go work out, go get it, this way it's waiting for me. When am I going to eat lunch?

I like to be, as it pertains to getting my workouts in, I'm not necessarily as regimented if I'm just like, I wake up that day and I just have stuff to do. Like, I'll figure that out as we go. But, like, I need my workouts, that stuff. I need to have, like, my ducks in a row. Or else I feel, like, stressed about it. So now that you're eating the right amount of calories, are you someone who tries to eat breakfast close to waking up? Yeah, I mean, I'm hungry, like, immediately.

Like I said, breakfast is, like, my favorite meal by far. So I generally wake up, you know, do your morning routine, whatever that might be, brush your teeth, yada, yada. And then, yeah, it's like coffee and breakfast almost right away. Are you someone who does any type of meditation or visualizing? Yeah, I use Headspace, the Headspace app. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah.

Andy put a coma has been on the book podcast oh nice yeah so yeah I use that that and you do it every day so no um I when I was in season I did I tried to do it every day and I was pretty close and when you're meditating do you picture yourself in the third person or the first person oh first interesting yeah yeah I'm just like seeing things I don't see my body yeah yeah I actually do it in the third oh interesting but it seems you're like popping around in there yeah I'm like looking down down on myself. It's very like... Oh, no, I'm first person. Yeah. Oh, interesting. I never even thought of it the other way. Yeah. You probably never thought of it. Yeah. I've realized it asking people that it's different. Okay. And how much of it ends up being about basketball or exercise or sports versus just clearing your mind? Yeah, I think it's just clearing my mind. To be honest, I don't know what this says. I fall sleep like 85% of the time. Really? Yep. And I know it. And you do it in the morning? No, it varies. Okay. That's the one thing I don't do is I don't do at the same time every time. Because, like, my schedule is kind of, I know you're supposed to.

I think it's better. I think it's better if you do it in the morning, like, right after you wake up. Because I find you're less likely to fall back asleep then. Yeah, that's true. So I did transit-al meditation, and you're supposed to do it twice a day. I almost never do it twice a day. I always do it once a day. But when you do it the second time in the afternoon, I find that's where it's easier to fall asleep.

And I bet if you do it after a workout or something, like, Yeah, it's just easy to like, around nap time. It's the voice. It's so soothing. Oh, right. Yeah, he's got the voice too. He does have the voice. Okay, so you've eaten breakfast.

Yeah. And now at some point you have to go to the arena. Yeah. But like, I will set my alarm early to have some chill morning time. My chill morning time is like, yeah. So I actually, I mean, it would be easy for me to meditate at that point. But I like to, like, catch up on my ESPN sports. So you'll watch SportsCenter?

Yeah, I actually I watch GetUp. My cousin's a producer on it, so. Oh, that's cool. Well, it's actually my cousin's husband, but yeah. But regardless, I think that would be my choice. Do you like seeing yourself on Sports Center or you tore it over it? I mean, I don't mind it. Nothing wrong with it.

It means I did something right, right? Well, hopefully it means I did something. Yeah, hopefully. Yeah, I catch up on my sports. I like to just kick it in the morning. I like to have, like at least an hour, seriously. So I will set my alarm early to make. sure I get like some chill time. What time you typically waking up? It totally varies on like the rest of

my day. Totally. But I, I don't know. Say you have a game at, you know, 7 p.m. Yeah. So if we have a game at 7 p.m. that means we probably have shoot around 11. So I'll send my alarm at like 8.30. This gives me time to like get up, coffee, breakfast, sit. Do you think shoot around is a good thing? Like I know you've done it for a very long time. Yeah. So. But it's putting additional strain on your body. I know. So if you're someone who's run down, Sue. Yeah. And. It's really the sleep part. So I've actually played for pretty much every coach I've ever played for has always done shoot-around. And then we had a coach.

It's a staple. It's a staple. I know. And it's like find out why they invented it. It's going to drive you insane. It's literally like the Lakers when like Wilt Chamberlain was on the team. And we googled this. I mean, me and some of my other teammates.

And they literally had shoot-around so Wilt wouldn't go out all night. Yeah. And you're like, wait, why am I doing this in 2019? Yeah. Ugh. Anyways. But yeah, coaches now, it's become part of their routine. They're checking a box.

So, anyways. So I played for a coach who didn't have shoot-around, and the whole premise was to sleep more, especially when you're a West Coast team traveling to the East Coast, it can get funky because your shoot-around time is going to be at 10, which is 7 a.m. So it's, and then it's tough. Yeah, that's not good.

Yeah, so we never had shoot-around out the whole year. It was optional. Oh, wow. So players who needed the extra work, maybe didn't get the same game minutes as others. They could go use the court time. totally optional and yeah I found that I felt amazing that whole year not having shoot around not having shoot around yeah the other thing she did though was in fairness it was the combination

we didn't have any early morning flights so we we we fly commercial yeah no early morning flights and a lot of people are like no don't you want to just like get back home and I'm like no what like what's the point of getting home at 9 a.m. I feel like crap yeah totally yeah it was yeah it was such a difference because I had played for every other coach I played for was always had shoot around. We're always on some early morning flight. And it really adds up. And I didn't realize it until that was all changed. But anyways, so now I play for a coach who we do have shoot around. But when we travel east coast to the east coast, he's way more lenient about it. Like, especially if it's

like an earlier game, like he's not going to get us up or maybe we're on some sort of road chip. He's not going to make us you know he might change it um and i think that might be where it's at like there is something so it's more variable planning part okay it's like a little strategy session yeah i think it helps to get people up not like up from bed but just like to get them out of their house yeah because otherwise that's the thing you fall the trap you can fall into without shoot around just waiting all day yeah that's true some people just sit there and i don't think that's actually good I think you can, like, get really stale doing that. So I think there is a happy meeting.

Like, if I were a coach, I would, based on schedule, have the shootarounds if it was, like, if it made sense from, like, a sleep standpoint. And I wouldn't have, and shoot around would never be straight. Like, there would be no strain. There would be, I don't even care about the shooting. They called shoot around. I don't know why. It's just game planning. So literally, you're just all standing around on court talking a little bit.

There's some stretching. No, you do shoot. Okay. You do shoot. No, no, but in your world of shooting. In my world. Yeah, yeah. I think you get a good stretch in. Nothing wrong with that, right? Like, wake your body up a little bit. Yeah, fire them up. Actually, the woman I work with calls it a firing session. So you fire yourself up. And then you do the game planning. Boom, 45 minutes. See you guys later. I think you've got a, I've got a future in coaching there. Yeah, I don't know. Haven't you been doing a little bit of coaching with the NBA as well?

More front office. Okay. Yeah. So more like. It's like evaluating players. Yeah. Do you like that side of it? Or does it kind of freak you out talking about athletes that way today? No, no, no, that doesn't freak me out. It's fun. It's fascinating because it's, I mean, you're putting, it's a puzzle, you know? It's not just, if only if it was easy as, oh, this guy's talented, yeah. It's like, how much does he make? Yeah, how does a person fit? Yeah.

Yeah, how does a person fit? Oh, yeah, that too, personality-wise, yeah. It's a lot of moving parts. Okay, so back to the day in the life of Sue Bird on Game Day. You do a shoot around at, say, 11 a.m. Yeah. Okay. And for you, like, let's say you wake up.

And whoop says you didn't get a lot of sleep and you've got a lower recovery than you'd like. Like, how does that change what you're doing at shoot-around? It doesn't really change much because we don't really do much. Okay, so that's not a big deal for sure. Yeah, no. How does it change your mindset leading up to the game? It can be, so that's the one thing with whoop was the biggest adjustment for me for whoop was when does the information become like a little bit of a mind game. Like affects you psychologically?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you have to, like, work through that. Yeah. And it was just, I don't know, I just don't think about it as much anymore. Got it. Like, it's this tool that I like to have and use it, but simultaneously it doesn't need to, you don't want to get mental about it. It doesn't need to dictate. Right. And I don't know, I mean, correct from wrong.

I don't know that there's much at that point. Like, I do, I nap every day, every game day. Okay, so you nap. Yeah, that definitely helps. Oh, yeah. Or I'll coffee nap if, if, I don't know if you know. Describe a coffee nap for audience. Oh, that doesn't know, yeah.

So coffee naps are good because you can, like, squeeze them in. Yeah. And basically, this is going to be in, like, total layman terms. So just work with me here. Yeah. Coffee, or I'm sorry, a nap, like, clears your brain, if you will, of all the, like, sleepy stuff. Yeah. And then it was, so what you do is you drink a cup of coffee.

And that usually takes, like, 20 to 30 minutes for caffeine to kick in. And so you drink it, you try to. And in my experience, because people are always like, how do you just fall asleep? No, it's not like a magic snap of the fingers. But if you like put your phone away, you turn the lights out, you get in a dark room, I would say 90% of the time fall asleep. Right. Yeah, I have a very, I have a high success rate with that. So yeah, drink the coffee, shut it down, close your eyes.

You will fall sleep. You set your alarm for 20, 30 minutes, whatever works for you. When the alarm goes off, the whole premise is that the sleep has cleared your brain, if you will. All the sleepy stuff's gone. The receptors are ready to go. And then the caffeine kicks in and boom. Boom. It sets you off.

Boom. Yeah, boom. And then it blocks all the, like, sleepy stuff in there. So it's not like you get this crazy jolt of energy where you're like, but I'm here, you know, up and atom. Right. But it does, there's like a longer lasting impact or effect of it. And I find that, like, you know, usually you might get like a little bit of a lull later in the day.

I don't get the lull. It just doesn't happen. But it's also a good way to get like a nice little nap, a power nap in a short period of time. Yeah. If you don't have like two hours. If your game is at seven, what time will you try to do a nap like that? And will you do a coffee nap on a game day? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So usually when I do the coffee nap is, okay, follow me here. So if we don't have shoot around, I've probably gotten up a little bit later. Right, right? Because you had your sports center time and you're chilling. Yeah, yeah. But I don't even need to set my alarm on those days. So I'll like let myself sleep to whatever. Which is nice.

Because I literally have all day. Which is nice. So because I've gotten up later, I don't feel the need. for like a two-hour nap and I know this is like my family always makes fun of me they're like you nap for a living I'm like yeah I'm punching the clock

like this is important exactly and I get it a two-hour nap is insane for people who have maybe a nine to five or if they have kids it's like nuts but for an athlete on a game day especially a two-hour nap is like fairly normal but it's definitely becoming more common let's put it that way like there's been a massive

cultural shift around sleep totally I'm here for it I'm here for every second of it. But yeah, so if I got up at like 9.30 that day or 10 even, I don't need a two-hour nap. But you may coffee nap. But I will coffee nap. And I'll try to do that, like right before I'm going to go to the gym. So if the game's at seven, let's say I'm like in my car at five, I'll probably do it like somewhere in the fours, right?

Like four, four-fifteen. Yeah. Boom, boom, boom. I will already have showered. I will literally just need to get up, put my clothes on and go. So it's almost like the pregame for going out the door. Yeah. Well, I always have coffee.

Right before games. Oh, interesting. Yeah, like three hours or so before a game. Maybe even less. So you'll have coffee three hours before. Maybe even less, actually. Like, now that I'm thinking about it, it's probably like in the two and a half. Two and a half hours.

Two and a half three, what's a difference? No, I mean, it starts to matter, right? Yeah. And that's, what's interesting about that is it strikes me as a, like, you're not actually feeling a caffeine high. That's more of just, hey, this is getting you to a certain place that you're always at. Yeah. It's pretty even keel. Because other athletes I'll talk to.

Yeah, you're not jittery or anything. I'm not anyway. Yeah, other athletes I'll talk to will literally take, you know, pretty serious amounts of caffeine before every game. But what we have to work through with them is the sleep side of it. Yeah. Because if you take heavy caffeine at like 8 p.m. Yeah.

And then you're performing in front of, you know, 20, 40,000 screaming fans, right? I know. Good luck sleeping. I know. I know. The adrenaline, all of it. Yeah. No, it is hard.

game nights are the hardest for sure to fall asleep so uh okay so you've done your your your coffee nap you go to the stadium yep what then um so i've had my coffee i've gotten over there and then i have like a typical routine of like warming up like some certain stretching yeah certain stretching certain like activation how long is that take not long it actually doesn't take me that long um like i said if the game's at seven, I'll be in my car by like five, get there, put my stuff on by like, and I'm trying to remember by 530-ish, we're all out on the court. And we kind of have like a team thing. Yeah. And with that is stretching, some activation, you know, like a active warm-up, you know, not just static stuff. And then you kind of start to add the ball to it, doing some

ball handling, getting some shots up. From there, I go and stretch a little bit more. I do like my foam rolling routine i get the lacrosse ball out all that stuff yeah and then at that point you have like or i have like a 20 minute just like moment and that's actually when i use a supplement called vatargo which is like a fast acting carb cool yeah so put that in the show notes oh yeah vatago's bomb um so take some of that and because that's a powder or something yeah yeah you like shake it up yeah it's basically it's basically carb it's a carbohydrate okay and it's just a way of getting that carb without having to eat it and how long to make you feel full Right. And how long has it been since you've been doing that?

Probably like 13 years. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. It's my loyal customer. Yeah. No, but it's great. I have that pregame and then I have it at halftime also. Oh, wow. Yeah. And you can, I mean, it's how much you can take without feeling full. Do you think that's in part how you got away with the less calories thing?

I don't know. Maybe. I only do it on game day. You can do it. You can feel your workout like every. day. I personally feel fine that I only need it on game days. And if I'm having like a, if like I'm in national team training camp, I'll do it every day. Oh, interesting. But for the most part, my workouts aren't like crazy, crazy hard. Like they're usually just like a slow build. So I don't necessarily need it. What are what are the tricks to preparing a knee that in your words is 105 years old? Yeah. She needs to be warm. She needs to be very warm. There's not like a trick. I'm trying to think. Like, I don't use any, like, Chinese medicine stuff or, like... Do you put any creams on it or anything like that?

So a lot of it's just getting it warm. Yeah, like, you have to find out what works for you, you know? Rolling. Yeah, I do know for a fact that... See, this is also part of the checklist. If I keep my quad strong, then that's going to take the brunt. Yeah, strength for me is key. So there will be even times where, like, if I'm feeling a little creaky, I'm like, all right, I need to do some extra.

And I do all my workouts, I would say... say a large percentage of them are just body weight. So, or I use cuffs now, the BFR stuff. So BFR, blood flow restriction. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's very in right now. Oh, yeah. It's amazing. Especially for someone like me who like

we're pounding is going to impact. Oh, interesting. Like my, yeah, like I said, I just have a very arthritic knee. So any type of pounding, I need to limit. So you'll do blood flow restriction around like your quad, for example. Oh, yeah, yeah, you put it on both your quads or like around both your legs. Yeah, I mean. Lunges. all that sort of thing. Again, like I mentioned earlier, like, I have people, I have like a team of

people that that help me, you know, be who I am on the court. And the best part is, I don't have to think. So they, they map it out for me, yeah. Like, I could show you my workout right now. It's literally like all, it's like basically just telling me what to do. And when you do a workout like that, are you doing it with someone or often alone? Often alone, yeah, because the people. That's more disciplined. Yeah, it can be tough. It depends. Every now and then I'll have people with me, but often alone. let's go back to the blood restriction for a second yeah sure so how long you've been doing that for for a year a little over a year and what kind of differences have you noticed so this is unique to me so my knee you know not just old it doesn't straighten all the way it doesn't bend all the way

it's really the straightening all the way that can be troublesome because you can't I can't get all my muscle I don't have that extension that like you're going to finish you know when you do like when you flex your quad I can't like get it all the way there so that just It's harder for me to build a muscle. It's just the reality. And what I found with the BFR stuff is not only can you do less and still get similar results, it actually gives me like a, for a, no other word I could think of like girth. Like, it's going to, I'm going to get stronger. You might not be able to see it, but it's going to build in there.

Describe quickly what the setup looks like for our listener. It literally, the ones I use, and there's all kinds of different. Yeah, sure, the one you use. It literally looks like you're going to take your blog. blood pressure. Yeah. So you strap it on. And like I said, it goes around like very close to like up your thigh. It's like very close to your groin, I guess. And you clip it in just like you would if a doctor is taking your blood pressure and get to pump in. And it's all measured, right? Like they measure your leg before you get the cuffs. And then you're able to based on like, I think it's like based on your pulse, they kind of map it out. And then you know like how much you have to pump it. So it's like a whole thing. Yeah. It's a whole production. And and the thinking being that by restricting the blood flow. You're putting more. I actually don't even know, but I can tell you it works. Yeah, you're putting more pressure on your muscles without having to put the same amount of weight on your muscles, right? That's the thinking. So it sounds like that works. Yeah, you can use them

for recovery as well. I actually got a cloth pair, cloth meaning like, and I swim with them on sometimes. Interesting, you swim. That was my doctor's idea, our team doctor. He was like, why don't you just try the cuffs in the pool? And we were all like, oh, good idea. That's smart, yeah. So it's just Just like a random brand offline. The blood pressure cuff, you wouldn't want to get those wet. So we had to, like, go find a different kind. Got it. They're basically just straps, to be honest, that you pull tight.

Okay, so stronger. Let's go back. You're now at the game. It's game time. That's when the adrenaline kicks in. Adrenaline kicks in. Has that ever diminished for you? Yeah, it has.

I mean, you've been competing it at a really high level for a really long time. Or you've just been competing. forever. There's days. Everybody has days. I feel like this whole podcast is making me sound like an insane person, so I'm just going to add to the list. No, you sound totally reasonable. Totally reasonable. I was like, oh my God, this girl's crazy. I have found that in the moments where, because the interesting thing about a basketball season is the games come quick. We play a lot of games in a short period of time. And it's like game, game, game, game. And it can be hard, like the lulls of the trowls of the travel or the lulls of whatever it can be hard to like get up for you know regular season game

number you know 15 you know you didn't you're not quite at the start we're still excited but it's not the end either and yeah you know every game's important but um i found that i've had to like kind of create different um like motivational kind of like i don't know like oh what if i'm totally making this up i'm trying to think of a good one oh like what if uh the national team scouts are in the audience. Like, how would you feel then? I love that. And you have to, I kind of, like, tell myself stories.

And I find that, like, the adrenaline picks up and adrenaline masks everything. So there it is. Wasn't that, like, 100% Michael Jordan's playbook? I have no idea. It was it. Yeah, totally. Oh, yeah. He would be like, this person said this about me.

Yeah, he would just come up with these reasons to annihilate teams on, like, a Tuesday night. Yeah, that's funny. But it sounds similar to what you're describing and that you're just finding these little motivations to keep pushing you. Yeah. Usually it's like. you know, it comes in the form of, like, people watching, like, oh, what if your nieces were, I have two little nieces who are six and four, you know? And I'm like, yeah, I'm like, what if my nieces were here?

You know, how would you want to play in front of them? And I find that I get a little more excited when I kind of think, I'm like, oh, this is exactly. I would feel this if they were here. And I try to, like, steal that. Right. And keep it. And then, you know, when the MBE finals rolls around. Yeah, that's easy.

That's easy. Yeah. I mean, when I, so this little, like, tactic or whatever, I, I. I really only have to use it like a handful of times. You know, usually there's enough. There's enough because I understand the importance of each game. So usually there's enough. But I mean, there's not the saying fake it till you make it for, you know, for a reason.

Sometimes I think for me as an older player, I got to fake it a little bit at the start. And then eventually my like, I don't know, my training or whatever, it just kind of takes over. Your instincts. It keeps me up. Maybe, God forbid, someone goes past you and scores. Yeah, that's different. I mean, that happens a lot, sadly. No.

Okay, so game ends. How do you end the day? Yeah, game ends, got my protein shake ready to go. Definitely trying to eat, like, as soon as possible. But obviously, you have to shower. We don't, I like to go out to eat. It's kind of like a exhale. So shower, go to dinner, usually with my teammates or whoever's around.

Yeah. And then just go home. I mean, when I was younger, this was a totally different answer. But what would you do when you were younger? I mean, I was just talking about this with some friends. It's like being an older player in a league is so fascinating because nobody's your age. And so your peer group has either retired or actually retired. Yeah, like they've all retired.

So it used to be like, ooh, who are we playing tonight? Oh, so and so and so on this team. Hey, guys, what are we doing tonight? You know? Yeah, like, let's go hang out. Yeah, now it's like I have friends in the league. Don't get me wrong. But it's just it's not my peer group.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, no, I get it. So it's much easier to be like, what are you guys doing? And then be like, nah, I'll just get home. I'm tired. Okay, so you get home, do you have any routine before going to bed? No, I'm definitely like a TV binge walking. Any tricks to sleeping?

No. You seem like a good sleeper. Yeah, I can fall asleep like in seconds. You're a zero-minute sleep latency person. Oh, yeah, my latency is like. She points at her phone. Megan has a whoop also She's not as much of a

She's not nearly as disciplined So it's kind of funny The difference in our usage But yeah My latency is like, bam I fall asleep in seconds Are the two of you on a team together? No, we're not

We should put you guys on a team together Yeah And then you can text each other Before games and stuff Hey don't worry about it Yeah Don't worry Oh yeah hey

So what's it like having a partner That's competing at the highest level too It's great It's got to be refreshing, right? It's nice, yeah. You can talk about things that, you know, each person has a true understanding of. You can vent, and it's nice to have somebody either be able to kind of commiserate with that vent or be like, hey, listen, you're acting ridiculous right now, you know? And you trust that it's coming from a place of, I don't know, experience.

We've both kind of experienced all of it. So it's great. And then, you know, I mean, when I do work out with somebody, it's usually Megan. That's cool, isn't it? Yeah, it's really nice. It really is. Our schedule hasn't allowed for it much this summer, for obvious reasons. And I kind of miss it.

It's nice. I have like a partner, you know. How did you guys meet? So she plays in Seattle also. We have, so like the story goes, she plays in Seattle also. We have the same, we're in the same agency, Wasserman. Oh, nice. But it really wasn't until we crossed paths at the Olympics in 2016, where we were like, we should be friends.

Yeah, right. And then like the rest of history. That's awesome. Yeah. What was it like for you watching? what the U.S. women's team did. Yeah, it was incredible. I actually got to go for the final,

so that was cool. Yeah, I saw some of the photos. It looked really fun. Yeah, it was fun. That was like the one silver lining to being hurt this summer. It gave me the time to jet out there. So it was great.

I mean, obviously couldn't be more proud, more impressed, just both from a, you know, off the field. I'm sorry, on the field play, right? Like so much pressure. The team killed it. Megan killed it. And then, of course, off the field,

just the way she's represented and carried herself. It's been a lot of fun. No, it's been amazing. Now, you've experienced that moment of bliss of winning. Yeah. Right? It's nice.

Is that the drug for you that keeps you coming back? It is. It totally is because there's no other time. I've not found other things that can make you feel the way that that feels. And it's funny because the sad part of it is and there's the other thing you learn with experience, it's like it's so hard to get there. You get there. It's this amazing feeling. like a rush. And it really only lasts like that night. Yeah, it's like 12 hours. Yeah. And I always tell

my younger teammates, I'm like, especially last year, it was like, you need to enjoy, or even Megan at the World Cup, like, tonight, tonight is the night. Like, make sure you are like living it up because you try to recreate it the next night. And like, don't get me wrong, it's fun. And it lingers and it lasts. But it's never, nothing is ever quite like the night you win. That moment where you weren't sure you were going to win and you had to push to win. Yeah, the minute the sound, you know, the buzzer sounds to probably like, I mean, probably like 4 a.m. or whatever. I know, for us, we had to, last year in the WMA finals, we had, we played at Washington and we won. And I think our flight was like at 8 a.m.

So the bus is like at 6. And it was literally like from whatever time to like 5.30. But there's really no, it's just nothing like it. Like you're on cloud nine. Everybody's happy. You're all celebrating. It's this amazing feeling. And again, you try to recreate like the next night.

Or, you know, we had a parade in Seattle, which was wonderful. It's never like that night. Not in my experience, anyways. And do you think that's the thing that's driving you, that 15th game of the season in the back of your mind at all? No, I don't get too. I don't want to get too ahead of myself. I guess you're too process-oriented. Yeah, I can't.

You're very process-oriented. That'll stress me out. So seeing Megan win in that moment, did you feel like a tenth of the feeling or not? Um, I was more nervous. Yeah, I bet. Yeah. Um, I don't feel nervous when I play. But you were nervous watching her play.

Yeah, because I have no control. Yeah, right. Right? Like when you're a player, you have some control. You're in the moment. Yeah. And you might be nervous, I guess. No, I don't really get nervous as a player.

I get a little more like anxious, I guess. Sure. Um, but not nervous. But yeah, watching Megan, like, kick a penalty kick. Yeah, I'm really nervous. Yeah. Because I'm like, that looks really hard. I hope she does well.

You know? Yeah. So yeah, I was a lot more nervous. But simultaneously, like, very confident in them. Yeah. Yeah. So it was like a nice. So when they won, I was like. They had a bit of a swagger. Yeah, totally. Are you kidding? Have you met them? Yeah. They had a bit of a swagger. They're full of it. Full of swag. Yeah. Who gets more sleep. Megan. She's like a beast. Yeah. Good sleeper. Really. I fall asleep faster. She gets more. And how many hours are we talking? She can go. I think I wake her up sadly for her. her she can go if like if she's like on the road you know so she's by herself um I'll like wake up and I'll be like good morning text you know and then it'll be like two hours later it's like I don't know 11 where she is maybe or 12 where she is let's say she's on the east coast yeah I'm like where is this be and then all of a sudden I know she's like oh my god I slept 11 hours I'm like Jesus this is why you need the team page yeah no it might make me feel bad about myself yeah no

she sleeps she sleeps now you mentioned texting for you i mean you've been um playing at a really high level forever but like it the whole cell phone social media thing has changed a lot right totally how has it affected you how do you think about it um i mean i'm definitely addicted to my phone although i would expect you to have a more thoughtful addiction to your phone i don't know than your average like 22 year old i don't know i'm around on 22 year old I know. So the one thing I will say is the thing I noticed the most about this generation with their phone or this up-and-coming generation. And I know it's like, sidebar, note to listener.

I know I talk like I'm like 50. I know I'm still like fairly young. It's just in my world. Yeah. I'm always talked about as being old. I've like taken on this, totally. This lingo. But anyways, being at dinner with a group of 23, 24, 25-year-olds, the like the lost start of conversation.

I mean, these kids like do not. know how to have a conversation. They don't know how to like throw it back. You'll be like, oh, hey, so where are you from? And they'll be like, I'm from Michigan. You're like, throw it back, you know, like, ask me or let's keep this going. They like don't know how to, it's so bizarre. They're all going to kill me if they hear this, but it's so bizarre. It's like really hard to find, you know, but they so easily can be on their phone and they keep their phone at dinner. It's constantly out, which I'm guilty of that at times too. But for the most part, at dinner, no I can put that thing away yeah the other thing they do that like blows my mind is the amount of

face-timing they'll just like face-time to be like what's up I literally tell them I'm like unless you're in jail do not face-time me yeah like I'm not answering I don't want to just like see your face and say hi huh and they will they'll just face time and you think that's somewhat generational yeah I do yeah I mean they grew up with these phones and I mean now I'm really sounding like an old person yeah right I get it on some level I get it it's like what they know but I'm like the part the part The part of, like, lack of conversation is tough. Do you think any of it's they're intimidated by you? No.

I don't. You kind of, yeah, at this point. I'm like, I never even thought of it, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. They know me. I've been with them now for, like, years. But you're like the star, too.

Nah. You don't think it's a thing. No, I don't. Self phones. Now, are you looking at your cell phone up to the second you fall asleep, but first thing in the morning, all these things? Definitely first thing in the morning. Do you change your usage at all, like, okay,

It's the day of the NBA Finals, or it's WMBA Finals. No. So, yeah, during the playoffs, what I ended up doing was taking all my social media apps and, like, putting them in a folder and putting it on, like, the back page. So you just made it. Try to avoid it. Yeah, it just made it harder to get to it. And this way I found instantly I was not checking it as much because, like, oh, I got to swipe so much. It's funny.

There's all these little hacks to things like that. Just putting apps in different locations on your phone. Yeah. Turning off notifications changed my phone usage. I don't have my notifications on for social media. For text messaging and all that, yes, of course. Yeah. But for social media.

I turn them off for everything except messaging and phone calls. Yeah, same. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have it on for anything. Yeah. Maybe like a Nordschumse. But by the way, you and I are totally in north of self like that. You and I are totally in the minority on that.

Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, people are getting notifications left and right. Oh, no. That would drive me nuts. Yeah. No, I don't like that. I'm also like, again, this is add this time.

of the Sue Sounds Crazy list. When there's like a notification or like, oh, like what is it called? You know, it's like if you have messages, it says like, too, that little bubble thing, get rid of those immediately. I cannot have any on my thing. It drives me nuts. Well, that's in part why you turn off notifications because then you don't get those little bubbles.

Yeah. I get anxiety sometimes looking at friends' phones and it's just like all these little bubbles across the screen. Yeah, it's like 3,000 emails. I'm like, what are you doing with your life? This is my sister. I was like, you have 2,552 on read messages. don't get it.

She's like, no, I got to save them for later. I also don't have a job that requires the whole, like, need to read my email thing. So that's partially what I don't even have notifications for my email. Yeah, I do. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I don't need to. Yeah.

I can, like, check it when I check it. Yeah. Yeah. What else from a recovery performance standpoint, have we not covered? I mean, I've tried. Like, what are some things you've tried that didn't work for you? Yeah, like I've tried slow tanks. And didn't do much.

Yeah, I only did it like twice. So maybe I didn't give it like enough of a college try. Okay, we'll give that a soft pass. What about a cryo? I do cryo. You like cryo? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do. And I'm not an icer. I don't ice. My thing with cryo is it definitely like I see a positive result in my whoop data when I do it, which is cool. Yeah. But I think the business model around it's kind of flawed. Now you probably don't have an issue with this and that everywhere you go has cryo. But like for the rest of, rest of us, you know, normal folks, it's just like, it's a weird experience going to this thing, paying like $200 for three minutes. $200? Or whatever it is, $150? Oh, no. Yeah. No, I go. Yeah.

You need to move to Seattle. Yeah, maybe this is a Boston price or New York price. Because that, I think it should be some kind of a subscription where you can just go as much as you want. Yeah, that's what I have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you pay for a month and it's unlimited. Yeah.

So that's different than what I'm experiencing. I wouldn't want to pay for that either. Oh, no, you have to be cost effective with all of this stuff. Well, yeah, but I also think it has, you have to build a routine into it. Like your point about float tanks, you only did it twice. It's kind of hard to know, right? Whereas with cryo, if you can actually, and again, I look at this through whoops sometimes, but if you can look at, okay, here's a month of me not doing cryo,

and then here's a month where I do it between three and five times a week or something, then all of a sudden you've got a comparable data set, and you can make some kind of an informed decision. Yeah, no, that makes sense. I do cryo enough to know that And we're talking like once a week It's not crazy Enough to know that like

I think there's something there So I'm going to keep doing it The minute I feel like something's not working I'm out We just do it at random Yeah my like I said My strength coach will like Put it in a schedule

Oh infrared saunas I'll hit up every now and then It's actually at the same place As the cryotank so that's easy That's like they say It's good for people with arthritis Like I said I keep calling a restraining

eighth coach she's actually like more like sports performance her dad uses it um because he's older obviously he's dad and he has crazy arthritis so she's like and he loves it i was like all right i'll give it a go so it's nice to be warm feels good in there um what else have i done i'm like literally i've tried everything and supplements and stuff sounds like you got yeah actually so one interesting one that i noticed as it pertains to whoop you reminded me when you're talking about um the cryotank was I use this product called Resink and it's essentially like a recovery powder. So it's

I mean you could look up to see what's in it. Sure. We're included in the show notes. So boom, I drink it when I drink it before, it can be used like post workout, but I found that I just do it like right before I go to sleep and I find that my sleep numbers are way better when I'm using it. Interesting. Yeah. And it's

just all it is is like a anti-inflammate liquor, you know, something. I'm going to check that out. Yeah. And I've sleep so much better. Or like, it's not even I don't even know that I'm getting more hours per se. It's like the sleep is better. Oh, yeah. I noticed immediately, I was like, oh, my God, my numbers are way better when I do this.

Oh, interesting. What are some other things where you've seen better numbers? Better numbers? Or worse numbers. I'm like, I know when I see the worst numbers. Like alcohol. Alcohol. Holy moly.

Holy moly. I'm sure Megan winning had no effect on your recovery. Right? Exactly. No, zero. All those times we win championships, take the whoop off. Yeah, no, I think, you know what I found. with the woot more than anything, like, it's kind of like you probably know what's bad and what's

good and alcohol is the best example of this. You know, it's like you're not sleeping great and you're waking up feeling like crap. To see numbers, it just like validates that. And so I think for me personally, seeing the number, now I'm like a little more reluctant. I'm like, or I should say I'm more thoughtful around the times I'm going to quote, let loose or like have some drinks and like yeah, it makes you be very focused about when you're doing it and why you're doing it. Totally. Like I was just before we came on the pocket. telling you it was my friend's 40th. And simultaneously to that, it was just like a weekend of fun at a friend's house where

almost like a reunion of sorts. And I literally said to myself, I'm going all out. I'm not going to think about food. I'm not thinking about alcohol. I'm doing whatever. Flip cup, Beirut, you name it. And then when I get back to Seattle on Monday, which is where we are right now, it's go time. So I don't plan on like drinking.

I plan on getting back on my nutrition tip for like the next like, I mean, I'm going to start slow with like two weeks, right? like my workout world, like today's going to be a hard day. So it means I'm, you know, I'm, I'm coming off picking rolls and I'm doing a lot of jump stops and I'm cutting, you know, like all this like, you know, like maybe I'm doing sprints and there's all kinds of running and cutting and, you know, and shot making, but also just like a lot of movement. Yeah. And that would be like considered hard for me because of my name, right? Like I'm doing all this movements. I can do a workout like that and get, you know, X amount of strain.

What does it look like typically in strain terms? Um, I don't know. I do multiple workouts. Sometimes it's like I can't, I don't know. So you don't know. Maybe like 13, 14. Yeah. Okay.

Something like that. Um, and I can look it up right now. Um, but then I could turn around the next day and it be considered an easier basketball day for me. Not literally the next day. I just mean like another day. Like, hey, today is just going to be, and we call it volume shooting. You're just going to go out there. I want you to make, you know, from five or six, seven spots on the court, make 10 twos, you know, then go and make

10 threes or maybe I'm doing something where it's like, all right, you have to make 8 out of 10 from a spot before you can move on, all stationary. My strain will be higher. And that's when I was like, wait, what? And I realized, that was the first time it was really put in front of me that like your heart rate, you know, yeah, like from a cardio standpoint, that can get your strain up, but like actual stress. So if I'm doing a shooting drill and I have to make 8 out of 10 and I can't get it, it's going to stress me out, right? Yeah, right. And that's when your strain can also increase. It also makes you realize probably the stress of a game. Yeah, that too. That too. And that's actually the one thing I've never done. We're technically not allowed to wear the whoop during games. Some

girls like tape it up. Yeah. But I don't like stuff on my wrists. Have you ever tried the arm sleeve? No, I've never tried it. But we wouldn't be able to wear that either. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, like the sleeve, you mean, like the sleeve. No, yeah. I can't wear it. It would bug me. It would bug me. Yeah. So the one thing I don't have is my game data. But game data would be interesting. I know what it would be. It'd be strained out. Yeah. It's probably hot. Yeah. It's fine. Yeah, but that really blew my mind. I was like, I don't get it. Like, I literally just stood there and shot. But because it was like... But because you're focused and you're animated and you want to make shots. Yeah, and I'm like getting mad and totally.

It's funny. We've worked with some athletes that talked about how blown away they were by the strain of interacting with fans. Yeah. Because you got all these people screaming. It tends to be younger athletes, too, that aren't used to it. You're probably, like, totally used to it. But they're screaming at you and you want to make sure you sign everything and there's cameras. That makes all sense.

Yeah. And if you do that for 30 minutes, 45 minutes, your body actually may have a response. I had to babysit my nieces. Oh, there you go. Which, like, that was like, I had to cook them dinner. I had to, like, entertain them. At the end of it, I pick up my phone. I was like, your whoop has detective activity.

I was like, what? But it was stressful because I was like, don't touch that. Watch that pot. It's hot. Don't touch the oven. Don't go near it. We get requests to add a bunch of different activities, like some being like chores. Baby sitting.

Yeah, yeah. That's funny. Yeah, yeah. Usually I just go, if I don't know what to call it, I'm like, functional fitness. Yeah, there you go. Or other, obviously, but. Yeah. Well, new activities coming for those listening.

Awesome. Yeah. Now, you said on a summit, athletes who don't embrace data are idiots. Expand upon that. I just think it's more about kind of the whole old dog, new tricks thing. I just think if you're an aging, maybe not the best word, if you're an athlete who is like getting older in their feet. If you're not open and data being one of those things, if you're not open to all the new, you know, just knowledge available to you? Like, what are you doing?

Totally. You know, like, are you still having pasta parties before you're, like, that was like the big thing. Like, with my soccer team in high school, we have these like pasta, like card-loading pasta parties. It's like, are you still doing what you were doing? And like, for me, it would be like in 1995? No, that would be crazy. Yeah. Like, what?

So I just think for people that are opposed to it, I respect. I really do. I respect finding what works for you and wanting to stick with that. But I think, like, some of this is just about, I don't know, you've got to let go and kind of open, again, we were talking about, like, open your mind to these new things

because it could actually help you, like, dramatically help you. And that's what's so great about having older athletes playing nowadays because I think people start to, like, follow suit. I already see it in my sport. Yeah. People coming up to me and asking me, like, well, what have you been doing? Yeah, totally.

And now they're, like, getting on the same, you know, getting on board, same train. I would totally be a sponge around you trying to absorb all of it. Now, who are athletes that you look up to or you've done this with? Yeah, so, I mean, obviously, if I had like a million dollars to blow, I'd be doing exactly what LeBron's doing. Yeah. Like, exactly. Whatever he, I would follow it.

Same with like Tom Brady. You know, there's a reason. It's not part of it. You know, we said part of it is like genetics. You know, some things you just can't counteract, right? But I don't know. Some of it is also being smart and taking care of things. and sacrifice right like i i think that those two guys in particular the headline is they spend

millions of dollars on their body but the the behind the scenes is how much work it requires to recover like that for that long a period of time yeah like we've done a for my work lebron and his trainer mike minceas and it's amazing how dedicated they are to recovery yeah no i know i mean my only not argument to that it's not an argument the what the most of the money part does is um make it easier totally you know it just makes it a little more easier to be disciplined because like if i could have a cryotank and an inference on a and you know a stretcher like literally someone just stretched me and a massage therapist living with me yeah that would be like yeah recover would be easy so there's elements to it again not to like poo poo on them because obviously

they're incredibly disciplined no but it's like finding it for for other athletes um who maybe make a little bit less. It can be a little more difficult. And what's next for you? Like, you know, right now, are you just focused on the next championship? Are you thinking further out? I mean, yeah, I'm just trying to take it like on this. I've been saying probably for the last four or five years that I'm on these like one year plans. It's like, ask me an year. Ask me an year. So right now the one year plan consists of getting healthy, just had surgery a couple months ago. And it went well?

Yeah, it went well. Yeah, it was, it was tricky, though. You look nimble, by the way. Nimble? You were bouncing in here. You're back. I'm back. It's a good sign. It's better than the opposite. That's funny. Probably just because I had coffee. Coffee nap or coffee? Just coffee. I came from from PT. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, so, oh yeah, the surgery. So it was weird because I didn't like hurt myself. I didn't like tear something or break something or I had this like, for lack of a better, it was just like a growth that was the doctor's guess, like maybe a piece of cartilage, you know, broke off and it kind of lodged itself. And it just got, I mean, your body does weird stuff. Yeah. And it just got layered with bone, layered, layered, layered. Interesting, isn't it? And I could feel it when it was in there. And I, and I've had it, or I had it for like six, seven years or so. And it just got to a point where it got too big. And they had to

take it out. So what was weird about it is like, you know, usually if you tear something and there's kind of like this protocol, this was because that thing had been in there so long, it kind of like jacked some other areas of my knee up. Interesting. Not not jacked up meaning like made them act differently, right? They weren't working the way they were supposed to. It worked with that thing in there. Oh my God, it's beyond. Yeah. It like, it knew how to work with that thing in there, but it didn't know how to work without it. So, so this rehab was interesting because it was about getting all these things to like wake up again and be alive and that caused

some like you know aches at times and so it was interesting but I've like I said turn the corner I'm here so that the year plan is to get ready for next year's WMBA season get ready for the Olympics hopefully that'll be awesome yeah and our national team is actually

going to tour around this offseason oh cool off season meaning like fall winter spring and play some we're going to do a college tour against some college teams Oh, that'll be interesting, right? Yeah, it starts November 2nd. So we'll play Stanford.

We'll play Oregon, Oregon State, Texas A&M, Yukon, Louisville, all these teams. So we'll be bouncing around the country, getting momentum or building momentum for women's basketball for Olympics. Now, do you think you're going to kill those teams or will it actually be like? So we should, like on paper, we should. But what's interesting is we literally meet for the first time on October 31st. And the game is November 2nd. So it's like... Oh, wow.

Yeah. So that's, yeah, you're... Right. So we're kind of using these games as practice for us. Because, you know, aside from just building momentum towards the Olympics, we want to train together. So we'll get some practice time. We'll play these games.

And we'll just see how it goes. Unfortunately, it'll only be a headline probably if it's a little bit... We're all aware of that. And college players, man, they just... They really like to play hard. That's all they got. But you know, that's a fun format to play around with, right? Because I'm intrigued.

You know, like that's a I think things like that are good in sports Yeah, my biggest thing, what I really want I don't even know if I should say this publicly, but whatever I want to play against the celebrities In the celebrity game at NBA All-Star weekend Oh, I would love that I think that's what needs to happen

So the celebrities, who's on that team I mean, it varies So last year By the way, we saw each other at All-Star You were coaching the team Yeah, that's when I got the idea. So you want to have the women's national team. The women's national team.

Play like... What was it? Ronnie 2K. Yeah. If you hear me. Like Justin Bieber. Now, he was in a couple years ago. So like last year it was like, Ronnie 2K was actually on my team.

Okay. Yeah. It was such an interesting experience, by the way. Like some people were just like really entirely too serious. Yeah. And other people, um... Actually, it was just that was the interesting part. People were like super serious about it.

Yeah. Which is a whole other podcast. Now, was that what Jay Williams played in? Yeah, he played. Ray Allen played. Those guys looked pretty good. Oh, yeah. They looked like they still got it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they did look good. Yeah, I don't even remember. So are you saying those two types of guys would be on the team? Well, are they celebrities or are they former NBA players? I'm asking you, this is your game. You're creating it. Yeah, I think the celebrity part is really, because like, listen, I'm sitting here. But I think you're going to kill a bunch of celebrities.

Well, that's kind of, like, that's why it would be fun. Well. Whether we kill them. or not, I just think, this is, this is the idea. So in terms of pure entertainment. I think it'll be fun. I think it'll be entertaining. I think right away off the bat, where you like, oh, I'd watch that.

Yeah, I was definitely intrigued. Yeah, you're like, oh, I'd tune into that. Yeah. But then it's like, I'm not sitting here saying that we would beat Ray Allen. Like, he's a former NBA player. Yeah, right. Yeah, I'm not, a lot of people think that women's basketball players, especially when we talk about, like, money and equal pay and blah, blah, blah, yeah.

They think that we're saying that we're like better than the NBA, better than the men, and that's why or we're equal to so equal to me is not always like the same like no we're not the same as them but we should be treated equally that's kind of the vibe um with that no i don't think i could go beat ray allen that's not what i'm saying but like i think a team of celebrities because a lot of the flack that we get like interestingly enough NBA players aren't the ones that are you know in the streets talking trash about us it's kind of like your average everyday joe which some of these celebrities on the basketball court are so i think it'd be fun yeah i think that's intriguing i like that we'll see i doubt it'll happen but the girl can dream yeah um i've always thought that in the

NFL they should have the worst and they'll never do this yeah they should have the war the worst team like the team that finishes like one and 15 should play the best college team wouldn't that be super entertaining that would be interesting you know i have to say i was watching a bunch of highlights of you and wmba like you know and uh i like the ball oh you do yeah because you know what it does is it shows you the axis that the ball is spinning on. And it makes, I mean, you guys already have beautiful shots, but it makes the swish look like so much cooler because of the way it's...

Yeah, because you can't... Yeah, yeah, no, it's highlighted because it's different colors, right? Yeah, you can't tell the way the ball's rotating. And certain shots actually have different angles on it and different people have different spin on it. Oh, different people definitely have. Like, you've got a real nice spin profile, I realize. Thank you.

Yeah. The oatmeal and orange. That's the color of our ball. Yeah. Oatmeal and orange. Well, this is. has been uh this has been so much fun um for people listening where can they find you and you know what's where am i where am i at um well i play for the seattle storm wait what do you mean find me like on social media social media whatever if you want to plug a website or some new new initiative like what am i

i'm s 10 bird i think everyone knows who can play for that yeah maybe not and i'm s bird 10 on instagrams probably where i'm most active um twitter i'm on every now and then Those are my two. I don't do anything else. By the way, I think it's cool the way that NBA players seem to be rooting for the WMBA. Yeah, they're, I think if I had to, like, sum it up in, like, one sentence or paragraph or less, I think it's NBA players can appreciate good basketball and they're not threatened by us. Yeah, that's probably a nice way of putting it. Yeah, I think there's, like, this, I don't know, dudes, no offense to anyone listening or anyone in the room, dudes like to size people up. It's just, like, I think, part of their nature.

And so they see a women's basketball player and they're like, huh, I could take her. Yeah, right. And that's what, like, your average guy does for whatever. I keep saying average. I don't mean to, like, put anybody down. But that's just kind of like what, you know, a guy who maybe played in high school does. Whereas, like, LeBron James or, you know, all the dudes that follow us, like Kobe Bryant's into it, LeBron. I mean, really, it's a laundry, laundry list of guys.

They don't, they don't size us up. They can just see a basketball player and appreciate it for what it is. They also seem to just genuinely love basketball. Yeah. Like, genuinely enjoy watching it. at all levels. I mean, there's bad as well. Yeah. But I think it's cool that there seems to be kind of a genuine respect for one another. Yeah, there is. Have you spent a fair amount of time with NBA players or? Yeah. Most of that time being at Olympics. So when we're at the Olympics, we stay together.

That's cool. Yeah. So we're around each other a lot. So then you get to know people and then you kind of create friendships that can, you know, go beyond the Olympics. That's kind of how it's gone for me. Is the Olympics like the coolest thing ever to compete in? Or how does that get? compared to all the other things you've won. Yeah. So it's different in that. So this is the story I like to tell that kind of like hits at home. So what makes it different is not necessarily, and this is from a women's basketball

standpoint, like because we have a league, because a lot of us play overseas, the competition and because U.S. has been so dominant, it's not just this like competitive tournament. And because we won, that's what makes the Olympics great because we're the best country. actually it's it's our lack of training time that makes the competition difficult and yeah when we get to the semis and the finals yeah the semis in the finals yeah the semis in the finals is always tough but like the early rounds you know I mean listen you could go look up scores you know that we kind of take care of business yeah but what makes the Olympics different is and again I'll tell this through a story um so it was my first Olympics 2004 we won a gold medal and congratulations thank you very much and we were so we actually charter back to America and then we kind of all get to one city and then from that city I had to fly home. So I was flying from like wherever. I've known of New York. Sure. I was flying from New York to Seattle. So I'm on this flight. I'm in my seat and like obviously I'm not checking the gold medal, you know, so it's in my carry on. And at some point, one of the flight attendants

come up to me and she's like, hey, are you Sue Bird? And I was like, yeah. And she was like, do you have your gold medal with you? And I was like, yeah. And she was like, oh, the pilots would really like to see it. And I was like, yeah, sure. The minute I took it out of my bag, it literally, it went from the cockpit with the pilots, like down the plane and back, like, everybody wanted to see this gold medal. Yeah. And that's when it really hit me. Like, I already knew I was representing my country, but I was 23. It was new. You know, like, I got what the Olympics meant because, to be honest, growing up, there was no WMBA. So for me, the Olympics was like, the end all, be all. And that's when I wanted to be. So you did have that feeling that we had been

describing that 12-hour, 24-hour feeling of... Oh, no, yeah, 100%. Every Olympics I've had that. Okay. But it wasn't, I didn't, like, fully appreciate and understand what it meant to, like, represent your country until I was on that plane and everybody was going, like, ape over this gold medal, like, rightfully so. And I was like, whoa.

Because when you're a member of the Seattle storm, you know, Seattle pulls for you. But when you go to L.A., they don't like you. Right. And when you're a member of the Yukon, you know, Huskies, yeah, everyone at Yukon loves you and anyone who ever went to Yukon loves you. Everyone else hates you. Tennessee hates you. Duke hates you, you know?

Yeah. But here I was. Like, every American, every American was cheering for us. And that was like, that was like mind-blowing. Yeah, it's so cool. Yeah, it was really cool. In terms of some quick hits here, what are your travel tips for people? How do you fight travel, jet lag?

I find that the minute you land, it's really beneficial to work out. It's really... Exercise. Yeah, something. It doesn't have to be crazy. And by the way, it can be really light. Really light. Do you drink a lot of water or not so much?

I mean, no, not like a... On the spectrum of people who drink water. I'm on the lower end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get, I mean, I drink water, but I'm not like counting. I don't carry around a jug or anything like that. What are some of your influences or people that you read or listen to? Like in terms of sports and stuff?

Could be anything. I don't know. What's the last book that you read that you liked? I'm more of a fiction reader. I'm currently reading The Wife. I actually read a book called The Wife. I don't know if I have a follow-up question to that. No, you don't.

I actually read a book called The Wife, which was good. And then I realized, so I was on a plane and I saw this movie, The Wife. And it's like Glencoast is in it. I think it's Glenn Close is in it. And I was like, oh, I want to watch this. And then it was like, oh, based on a book. And I was like, whoa, I need to read the book first. because I heard the movie was good, but I didn't realize.

So you're a person who, if you hear a movie's based on a book, you need to read the book first. Yeah, I will never read the book if I watch the movie. I just won't happen. I did that recently with Gone Girl. Yeah. Like, right when the movie was about to come out, I was like, oh, I should read the book first.

Yeah, and I finished it about an hour before I went to the theater or something. Yeah. And by the way, it's a better book. Yeah. So anyways, so I went and bought what I thought was The Wife. And then as it turns out, there's two books called The Wife. So I read the first one, which was actually like, wait, maybe by the person, it was either by the same author as Gone Girl or like similar to Gone Girl in the description. It was kind of like a little, you know, weird like that.

But it was good. It wasn't amazing, but it was good. I liked it. Now I'm actually reading the wife I intended to read from the start. Okay. So you've told down on that. Yeah, which is the movie. So I just started that.

I'm like three or four chapters in. What's been the most relaxing vacation you've ever been on? I'm such a beach person. Like I said. Need sun. I need sun. I like crave it. So I've actually had my most relaxing vacations in, I've gone to Turks and Kekos a bunch of times.

Nice. And it's just a very chill island. But I actually went to Cabo last year. Yeah, last year. And it was very chill as well. Now, Cabo has a whole downtown situation if you're trying to do that. But for me, I just kind of like...

Relaxed. Yeah, relaxed. But yeah, anything like beach or sun, that relaxes me. What's the lowest recovery you've ever had on WIP? Oh, God, like 2%. And what happened? I was drinking all night. Yeah, big night out.

Big night out. Huge night out. You probably had a green the day before you won something. Yeah. And then you had a 2%. Yeah. That alcohol, man. It's bad.

Yeah. It's bad. Well, Sue, it's been awesome spending time with you. Thank you for coming on the podcast. And thanks for being on Woop. Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thanks again to Sue for coming on the podcast, and good luck to her as she prepares for next season and the 2020 Olympics. If you're not already a whoop member, you can join our community for as low as $30 to begin.

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