WHOOP Podcast - WHOOP x SR_A: Samuel Ross on Reimagining Performance

Episode Date: January 20, 2026

This week on the WHOOP Podcast, WHOOP Founder & CEO Will Ahmed, sits down with Samuel Ross, Global Creative Director WHOOP x SR_A for an exploration of design, performance, and purpose. Drawing from his formative years, creative partnership with Virgil Abloh, and work shaping some of the world’s most influential brands, Samuel reflects on how creativity, physical discipline, and narrative converge to define modern culture. Will and Samuel explore creativity, discipline, and storytelling and reveal how intentional design can shape not only products, but the way we live and perform.Join the waitlist!(00:46) Samuel Ross: Global Creative Director WHOOP x SR_A(03:06) Bringing Culture To Design(04:25) What Samuel Ross Looks For In A Brand(06:27) Finding A Flow State Across Design Mediums(07:32) Samuel Ross on Early Days Working with Virgil Abloh(08:32) Approaching Mixed Media Design with Fearlessness(09:38) Advice For Creatives: Creating Creative Impact Across Industries(11:58) How Samuel Ross Finds His Flow State (12:59) Daily Rituals For Optimal Creative Focus(14:33) Samuel’s Experience with WHOOP: How He Sees Performance(18:43) Integration and Harmony Between Work and Life(20:18) Samuel’s Definition of Success As A Creative Director(24:47) Samuel on Starting SR_A (28:11) WHOOP x SR_A: What’s To Come(31:00) The Push and Pull of Performance Lifestyle(33:34) The First Steps in Creating For WHOOP x SR_AFollow Samuel Ross:InstagramXLinkedInWebsiteFollow SR_A:InstagramWebsiteSupport the showFollow WHOOP: Sign up for WHOOP Advanced Labs Trial WHOOP for Free www.whoop.com Instagram TikTok YouTube X Facebook LinkedIn Follow Will Ahmed: Instagram X LinkedIn Follow Kristen Holmes: Instagram LinkedIn Follow Emily Capodilupo: LinkedIn

What do you do to find that flow state? How do you know you're in it? How do you protect creativity? You know, it's like breathing now. I remember the first time I realized there was a flow state. Really when I started working with V, there was a shifting pace, a shift in expectation and demand. And it was as though you need to run with the pack. And that became the bar that we all held ourselves too.

And I think that sense of continual flow state, continual urgency, and critique amongst our ourselves amongst our product and amplification and urgency that then led to that acceleration of growth you saw in sportswear and streetwear and menswear at that period where you saw bedroom businesses go from zero to 20 independently if not more very quickly in a you know in around 900 days my guy Samuel an absolute joy will honestly welcome to the repad complete joy to be here you've been a designer your whole life indeed from day one I've been designing from as soon as I can remember, it's always been about object and, you know,

fonts and materials coming together. Your parents were both designers as well, right? Both of them come from the arts. You know, my dad went to CSM and then majored in glass technology. So there's always been this spirit of industrial design within the home. And my mother's an academic, you know, I was also homeschool. So this idea of the maker and craft and technology, it's always been at the call. So you were around design, you know, pretty much right when you came out of the womb. Do you have, do you have specific memories when You were a kid of playing with things or seeing things that your parents were working on and saying like, oh, I want to do that or I can do that.

I feel like super blessed in the fact. I would spend a lot of my childhood at like computer fairs and engineering fairs with my father. You know, we'd spend time building pinhole cameras together. I remember the first time when certain computers would come into the home and we'd take them apart. So this idea of like the making, like liberal and applied arts has always been in the epicenter of the home.

It's really interesting, I mean, getting to work with a lot. lot of great designers over the years and now getting to follow your career. You, right out of the gates, it seems like you were 15, 16 years old, and all of a sudden you were on that pursuit of creating your own projects and your own agencies. Talk a little bit about that phase, because obviously you're still in your adolescence, but you're diving right in, you know, and taking it on. You know, I've always seen an opportunity in storytelling surrounding product and brand and color and font. And there's always been this intentional spirit. If I've seen it out there, why can't I do it or why can't, you know,

a new story for our generation be told? And within those formative years, you know, my first entrance into, let's say, fashion and design, it first came through garment and sportswear. It was always about how things were put together and made and how certain choices were kind of established. And as soon as, you know, my, my formative years in school and art and design came about, I had so much support from tutors. They could see there was a lot of a passion. I just started to build upon that again and again and again, but it was also about culture coming into play to give design a new context for our generation. Was there a specific culture that you felt inspired by then? You know, it was a mixture of music and sport, sportswear

at large as a whole. This idea of having like a uniform which felt like it belonged to a tribe of people who had intent and kinship and purpose was my first entrance into culture. And what were some of those products that were inspiring you as a teenager? You know, it would be the early Jordan models for sure. It's going to be Nike A-O-Max. I remember the first time our local basketball court got built, and we would sit there every day and see this get built and erected, and we play every day and we bring through, you know,

different Reeboks and Nikes and Jordans and really kind of wear them into the ground. And that was the entrance into really thinking about how can the product be better in adolescence. I mean, the Jordan brand is one of the all-time great brands, and of course Nike is one of the great brands. In many ways, you know, in building Whoop, I was inspired by Nike because this idea of, you know, taking a product and starting with the pinnacle of athletes or performance and then being able to bring that story to a large audience.

I mean, I think that's what Phil Knight and Nike did so well. And then Jordan was this, you know, epitome of that story. And it was just this beautiful subbrand. And then, of course, you had this really charismatic athlete who is extraordinary. I mean, there aren't that many athletes like Jordan who have come along. You've gotten to work now with a lot of these different amazing brands. What do you look for in a brand when you approach a partnership? You said something really important there about the spirit of founders and creators.

And fundamentally, when we look at like, you know, that particular period of culture and sports and movement and design coming together, it was about the intent of the founder or the artist and the athlete. And I still look for that now. You know, it's more so founders who are willing to take risk and push a needle and poor emotion into brand into product. I mean, beyond brand, we're talking about these are life stories. And when that comes to life, that's when you want to join a tribe or, you know, join a bigger movement. And I've, as you rightly said, I've been fortunate to be part of other people's journeys and have them spearhead mind, whether that's my late mentor of Virgilablo or whether it's dear friends like Mark Newson or broader, you know, fantastic mentors such as, you know, Johnny I, this rapport of design being led by emotion and empathy and founders is really at its core.

I read that you met Virgil by sending him a cold email. Is that true? It's relatively true. Yeah. I was in my first design job outside of school. I majored in graphics and I got a job as a product designer and I was working on industrial products, you know, homewares. And I quickly realized there was this broader cultural movement that was happening tied to emotion and design. And you could feel it. It was in the air. It was palpable when it was happening to our generation globally.

I managed to come across his email or his social pages, and we connected. And he requested my portfolio. At this time, he was building now a bigger vision. And of course, off why it was just about to start. And I became his first design assistant, and we traveled through Europe. And we would just take these war ideas and apply his expertise and engineering. and mining, you know, product and graphic design. And we established this new perspective,

which went on to frame the entire generation that is still building and running now. Well, Alfoit's such an amazing story and it felt so distinct. I've listened to you talk about the sort of challenges of innovation and designers not getting stuck, you know, feeling this sort of this risk aversion. And it seems like Virgil and what you did with him in that period of time, there was a lot of freedom. You all were able to really express yourselves. You kind of know, when you're in the middle of a creative renaissance. And I'm sure you felt it the same here with whoop when you get that breakthrough on product

or firmware or software that comes about. And we all knew, all of the contributors knew at that point, we were taking these hard skills from traditional design industries and we were applying them to a future that was yet to be determined. That spirit of radical thinking, it's still with me now, it's in us now,

and I think it's more so a founder's trait. Like everyone in that tribe, you know, whether it was Jerry, whether it was Virgil, whether it's others, We're all founders at our core. You know, different archetypes of founders, but the whole point was that we would establish our own IP

from our own narrative, our own life story, and find a way to bring that to market, which felt new that hadn't been done before. Can you speak about, like, a specific product that you worked on with Virgil, that, you know, there was something that just really struck you about the process or a decision that was made. Man, there were hundreds.

You know, we would kind of work seven days a week across life. It seemed like the work ethic was extraordinary. It was insane. incredible. Like it was complete flow state for years and we felt like there was no other purpose outside of that or outside of product generation and problem solving. We kind of saw it as like a quadrant of like Rubik's Cube between like culture, IP, material and speed to market. And it was always about getting the right calibration regardless of what the category was. So, you know, we could talk about footwear and sneakers or we could talk about pitches we had to Ramoa back in

the day or we can talk about Chrome Hearts Benches that we established or large. architectural store designs. As you said earlier, there was this view that design is limitless and it impacts every single capillary of reality of life. So we should have a say in how we can improve it for our generation and future generations. It does seem like you all were operating with a certain fearlessness, you know, just jumping from, and this is you today, but, you know, jumping from sculpture to furniture to apparel to footwear. I mean, these are all very different disciplines. It's interesting, isn't it? Because fundamentally, they're all executions of shaping a sensory experience. You know, it's temperature, it's texture. It's the ideal of housing the body.

And I often look at design as an architecture for the body at large. You know, whether it's integrating with the body and it's tracking, perhaps, or whether it's housing the body and providing some sense of warmth or protection or practical insulation, it all relates to the body. And I think that perspective has kind of eroded a lot of borders. You know, as you right said, I care as much about public art we have installed in Miami, whether that's 20 benches that we've established with Craig Robbins, or whether it's, you know, vault asymmetric forms in steel and metal that are in the city of London permanently installed,

or whether it's, you know, a spoon that's been developed or a sneaker. Design lives at every scale, and we want to be able to impact that. Your role at that period of time during the off-white phase and working closer with Virgil was, you know, more of a number two role. And so obviously you're able to express yourself and shape your point of view, but there's a final decision maker, right? And that's different than your role today, where you have complete creative control. What's the lesson for someone who's up and coming in their career who sees things and wants to express themselves, but they're also still operating, you know, in a role where they're not completely in control? I'm going to speak emotional on this, right? Like, you have to be

sacrificial to the cause and you need to belong to a cause which is bigger than yourself. Like there has to be complete ego deaf at the start of a career when you're learning and trying to carve a particular distinct way of being and performing within the remit of design and fashion and garment. So I was there fundamentally to make sure that his vision could be established. And at that point, the vision of Donda, because of course, Virgil was the creative director at Donda for quite some time could be established. And if that meant we needed to do artwork or we needed to physically move goods in different places or things needed to be dropped, then it had to be done.

And I think that was the training ground, the stomping ground for what it means to run like a small SME or startup, which then I took those skills and experiences and then went on to form a Cold War my first company. And you mentioned Donda, you know, a lot can be said about Kanye West, but what were some positive things that you took from him during that period of time? Well, I think he's a visionary when it comes to the remit of design. There are so many individuals who come from a different ilk, who have domain expertise in designer within the arts,

that he opened the door for. And it's completely reshaped and recontorted, you know, at least 25 years of design. And we're seeing that impact now and continuously. And, you know, you need vanguards to be able to really throw themselves into change. And there was such an urgency at that period. You know, if we're talking around 2011 to 2050, the type of music that was being made from that domain,

the limitless vision of what design could be and who spearheaded it. It was a really important and urgent time that we all felt, and he helped articulate that and spearhead that. You mentioned flow state. What do you do to find that? How do you know you're in it? How do you protect that creativity? You know, it's like breathing now.

I remember the first time I realized there was a flow state, and it was really when I started working with the, there was a shifting pace and there was a shift in expectation and demand and it was as though you need to run with the pact and that became the bar that we all held ourselves too. And I think that sense of continual flow state, continual urgency and critique amongst our products and amplification and urgency, that then led to that acceleration of growth you saw in sportswear and streetwear and menswear at that period. where you saw bedroom businesses go from zero to 20 independently, if not more, very quickly

in around 900 days. Have you found certain ways to be more likely to access that flow state or that make it easier to get into flow state? When I'm more rested or when I've done a workout in the morning and a cold plunge in the morning, like I find those things are more likely to get me into a certain groove later in the day. Like, are there certain things like that you've found from a behavioral standpoint? Completely. I think that speaks to our training sessions before we jumped on here, right,

where we're both up there doing what we needed to do physically to get into that right mindset and space. And that's become a daily ritual. Beyond the ritual, it's a way of being. It's as though I'm able to tap into something at my core tied to my nervous system, my cognizance, my agility. And it's not just a hack to be able to perform better. It feels like simply a way of being and breathing at this point. And without that, you know, you just don't perform. You need to have that type of resonance in place. For the past, you know, five to six years, I've been following the loop journey and using wood because it enables you to clip into a state of efficiency and accountability that we all need. What's up, folks, if you are enjoying this podcast or if you care about health,

performance, fitness, you may really enjoy getting a whoop. That's right. You, You can check out WOOP at WOOP.com. It measures everything around sleep, recovery, strain, and you can now sign up for free for 30 days. So you'll literally get the high performance wearable in the mail for free. You get to try it for 30 days, see whether you want to be a member. And that is just at Woop.com. Back to the guests. You mentioned Woopin that you'd been using the product.

And obviously, I love that as the launch pad for the partnership that we had today. When you think about just overall performance and fitness and well-being, how is your personal routine evolved, so to speak? You're obviously a very fit guy. Appreciate that. You know, I've had this relationship to excellence and endurance and preservation and difficulty that I've enjoyed throughout the majority of my formative years, my teen years. And I think a lot of that came from first perseverance and resilience, you know, coming from like a very humble beginning and start. incredible parents, but an incredibly working class area and environment. This idea of grit is kind of part of your identity to a degree.

And over the years, you learn it's not just about a perspective or an attitude or a way of being, but it needs to move into practices. Some of those practices, of course, tied to business acumen and perpetuity. And others are tied to physically rendering yourself to meet the words that you, you know, expel or exude daily. And my training regimen, which is typically three to four days a week, which will be, you know, isolated weights or some light calis phoenix, kettlebell training quite dominantly at the moment,

alongside around, let's say, 15 to 16K of running, split into free sessions weekly. That came about as independent training. So I don't tend to train in a gym. I tend to move around between different studios when the business scales and always build a gym within that space. So it's become a way of thinking to, a degree. It's almost like training and isolated, you know, independent working out is meditation.

And when you find that you're stuck on something from a creative standpoint, are there certain things that you'll do physically that you find can help release that? I mean, you know, some people say, oh, go for a walk, you know, but like what are your versions of that? Yeah, I know, I know you feel this as well. If we're, you know, at a point where we need to make a decision, I need to feel something physically. And I need to feel a sense of like difficulty in that decision to really ground. what's happening. And I'll often go to like Kalesfenics or it will be resistance bans or it will be running through the wilderness. We live quite rural in the UK between like the middle of nowhere and the countryside, which is a real blessing and the city. And when those decisions need to be made or when time

needs to, you know, really be with me to think about where we're going to go with my business partner or dear friends, I need to see the sunrise and sunset when I'm running in the middle of nowhere to feel something. It's kind of amazing how much nature can be a reset like that. And we've now seen a lot of research to support that morning sunlight actually improves your overall day, your stress response, how you sleep in the evening. So it's fascinating to hear you talk a little bit about that as part of your sort of routine. Absolutely.

Approximity to nature seems just to do wonders for the body, the mind and the soul. And obviously, you know, enough sunlight to kind of make sure there is some type of alignment, you know, to like the body clock feels right to set up the working, not even day, just working moments that we move through. Now, with that in mind, obviously there's an environment which you could perfectly curate and you can have the perfect amount of light and it can be one on whatever floor you want, and you can have all the right utensils and things around you, so to speak, or tools, so to speak, around you for your creative environment.

But then separately, and I'm sure you've experienced this, you could be, you know, sitting on an airplane in an uncomfortable position and tired and all. all of a sudden something comes to you. How important to you is it to create an environment that stimulates this design thinking in your artistic work versus how important is it to you to just be open to ideas to come in? It's more so the openness and having those release valves. And you know, physical training is one of those macro release valves. Yeah.

As you know, like we kind of live between the perpetuity of like, you know, P&L's cash flows and working with those individuals to make sure that's corroborated correctly. And that means that they're often often isn't the perfect space or sacred space, but you have to find those windows and those moments. What does work-life balance mean to you? It's completely integrated. You know, I'm so fortunate that my partner and my wife, Jennifer, we've been together close to 10 years. And, you know, the first time we met our first date was in Dover Street Market. And our second date, she was helping me cut and stitch and package orders for the first company. We then decided to live. To live.

together within like a two-week period and we've never looked back. So there's a complete integration of two lives into establishing a clear vision together. I don't really have a balance and I like it that way. I feel like we also have a life mission. How about yourself? I think of it as like a work-life harmony, you know? Balance to me suggests that if you put 12 hours in this basket, you have to put 12 hours in that basket.

And harmony to me sort of speaks to this idea that that sometimes you're just going to have to be all in on one side of the equation. And that's okay. And you don't have to be apologetic about that or feel bad about that. And certainly in building a business or being an entrepreneur, there's these very intense, painful periods of building a company. And so having a wife and family who recognize that and can support that. And then on the other side of those periods, being able to dial back and have a release valve,

I think, is critical. And these things shift too. I mean, I've now got a nine-month-old at home. And that, like, changes your perspective. Sleep pattern, right? Yeah. It's not great for sleep consistency. Gosh.

But it's, I mean, what a life-changing experience. I want to talk for a little bit about what success is in your mind. Rick Rubin, who's someone I admire and, you know, obviously, brilliant music producer, but also just, I think, an incredible creative muse. Talks about this idea of success for a creative for an artist is when you put something out into the world that you love. And then what happens after that is what it is. It's the process of creating something that you're super inspired by that you love.

That is success. Obviously, there's a completely different dimension to think about success, which is you create a product and it sells. And, you know, people come up to you on the street and they're like, I love this thing so much. Or, you know, you've got huge sales numbers and profits and you're making money for some big brand. Those are maybe a bookend of success.

How do you think about it? It's interesting. As you said, I think, you know, coming from relative poverty, you see success, the first level being quite tangible, you know, provision for your family, your immediate loved ones. The second, which has always been quite close to my sense of self and sense of community has been provisioned for others. You know, I think as soon as the first company started to scale, I quickly realized it wasn't just about living in some, like, beautiful ivory tower, is about making sure there

are actual opportunities, whether that's undergrad. opportunities for individuals who have raw talent and maybe don't fit like the more traditional archetypal paths or whether that's, you know, founding, you know, grant programs with the King's Foundation and Serpentine and Saarction Gallery and the Royal College of Art, it had to be about making sure your success isn't a single moment, but that the success can then become a moment in time as a platform for others. And to kind of crystallize that we've run a grant independently, which takes an apportion of our profits annually and puts it forward into these institutions

and independent artists and designers and thinkers and engineers to make sure they have a direct pipeline to resource and also connections. Sometimes it's about not just the funds that someone needs, but it's about the access to the network. And that's really become a key foundation of success. Another is also peace and time. I think about time and what traditional success can offer is more thinking time to think across, you know, years and decades to really map forward a plan.

And I'm sure you found that the same on the journey of WOOP as it continues to grow and thrive. Your vision probably broadens and broadens of where it reaches to go next. There is something about success at a young age that can make you more ambitious. That's exciting. Like as I've gotten to build this company, seeing more and more people on the product and seeing more and more people getting health benefits from it, then in turn pushes this idea of, well, how broad can that be? You know, how many people can you help and improve and scale to? And so there is a certain notion of that. On the flip side, I've kind of found as well,

as you have these sort of perceptions of success from the outside in, your own definition of success can get much simpler. It stops being about, you know, the next valuation or the next revenue target or materialistic definitions of success. And it goes back to a sort of a feeling of how I'm operating in my life. I defined success the other day as success is being excited to go to work and being excited to come home. A hundred percent. It becomes more so an ethos. Yeah. And so that's just like, that's a good simple daily way to think about success. And I mean, I'm sure you've met incredibly successful people in your life. It's surprising to me how many people from the outside in who look successful. That statement I just made is not true of.

No. There's a deep unhappiness in a certain place. It becomes a trapping of sorts. I think if one can liberate themselves from simply focusing on the tangible, there is true time and liberation that can be given. It's impossible for me not to speak about my children when we think about ethos and success. My youngest Olympia, who's three and a half years old, she had her first warming day for school just a few days ago. And for me, that is success, seeing her deeply elated to join her eldest sister. I only have two, but Genesis, who's now almost turning eight on Christmas Eve, and them having a bond, but also

time to have such a strong connection to the applied arts and the liberal arts and seeing what can be apportioned for them. That is success. It comes down to family time ethos, and this resilience we put forward. I think the piece of success comes from the foundation we're able to build. Well, speaking of business success, you have an amazing company today, SRA. Let's talk a little bit about how it got started and what it's doing today. Completely so.

You know, when my first company that was, you know, we recently sold to Fraser's group, when that acquisition took place in 2025, it was almost like a keystone to look back on, you know, how do we get to this opportunity to be able to sell one of the companies to a public group and have the others start to grow and work with these amazing maisons and conglomerates of luxury. So the founding of SRA began at the LVMH. Hublo Design Prize, where I was awarded 120,000 GBP for winning that design prize at Serpentine Galleries. That was awarded by Hans Ulrich and the CEO of Hublo.

And that fundamentally became our seed money. From that point, there was always this vision of how can wearable design impact culture, but not lose the focus of technology and material in the world of luxury and democracy. So the main intent here was to just cut out the middle, focus on the highest level of craft and innovation and experimentation, and then focus on making sure there's an option for these ideas to reach all regardless of means. And that's led to really amazing partnerships, long-form dialogues with LVMH group, whether that be the Torbion's that we've developed with Hubello year on year. I mean, one is on risk now. It's been very exciting to produce precious objects at retail for up to 150,000 pounds, all the way through to developing scents with Aqua de Parma,

these storied maisons where you build long-term relations. And it's impossible to not talk about the great relationship to Apple over the years. And for a long time, I was with their team under the remit of Beats as the first external hire outside of Johnny Ive as the principal designer for hardware. and brand and we brought hundreds of products to market, new textures and new colors that had never been seen before that have performed. So it's always been about impact emotion

and bring culture and new perspectives at the highest level and at a level that is attainable to all. And we love that tension between luxury and democracy. What's your criteria for identifying the right partner, whether it be a Nike or an Apple or an LVMH? It's the hero's journey of the founders. That's really important, that there is an essence and spirit in those. And I say, I don't even really say partners or corporations, it's the people.

It's the people that, you know, pull the heartstrings of what got us into this sector and show us what is possible and have demonstrated what's possible. We want to work with those. We want to work with trailblazers. You know, we want to work with artisans. You know exactly what they do and do something incredibly well. That's when we feel like there's a real off. opportunity to say, hey, maybe there's a new perspective here that we can build together.

Most recently, you know, we've been working with the Indotex group and Zara and Marta Ortega really closely on bringing a new perspective of democratic clothing to the world. And fundamentally, it's about the people and this belief of a optimistic and radical future that moves us to a work of individuals. Well, I love your work and I love all these collaborations that you've been able to do, which I think brings us to whoop today. Absolutely. And a lot of the exciting work that I feel very grateful to get to do with you.

What drew to WOOP? You know, firstly, I have to say, like, it's an absolute joy to work with yourself and the teams here. What WOOP represents to me, what it will achieve is beyond what can be conceived now. I don't even want to compare to other groups and brands. I really deeply believe that WIP is the future. It will go on to determine so much to come within the wearable and also garment sector. What first dreamy to it was just the feeling when you pick up a product and you see

see all of the right cadences that have been in place for every single important design and cultural and technological movement existing within the product. You know, whether that's down to, again, the hardware, the firmware, the CMF choices, the lightness, the durability, the continued progression that's happened within, you know, the product, the communications, the nuance of others also understanding it. You can't falsify moments like that. And it was an instant click. And across the years, you know, this deep love for Whoop has been so organic.

I mean, I wear, I've been wearing Root for years, and I enjoy wearing them all the way down to when they start to age. Because it shows there's, you know, such an emotional tie to Whoop. And I'm so excited to show the world what we've been working on under our new project. We're thrilled to have this collaboration with you and to have you kind of push the boundaries of the way we think about it. I'm curious when you were first exposed to Whoop, was there anything that surprised you

or call your eye or didn't catch your eye? I mean, the fact that it doesn't have a screen is something people are always like, why is it that? The fact that it's mostly material, people are kind of like, oh, why is it that? It's so decisive. It's so decisive and accurate

to what it is and what it does exceptionally well. And as you said there is no screen. There doesn't need to be a speaker, but the, you know, the haptics are so strong. That's the tool that you need. It being tactile and lightweight. The quality of data that could be pulled and utilized as a user offers you an olive branch no matter where you are on your health journey.

It can be used, again, for those who are just recovering it and getting back into fitness training after birth as well. Like Jennifer also uses whoop quite heavily. But it can also be used to really push. into the ultra-athlet space as well as the casual athlete space. And there was all of these considerations, truly of empathy, that moved me there, let alone the packaging direction, the aesthetics, the use of type. Again, it's, yeah, you just feel it.

When something has it, you feel it. You know, one of the challenges to wearable technology, there's a number of challenges to wearable technology, but obviously it's on people's bodies all the time. It's something that starts to blur into fashion and identity, because it is such a present piece of your identity. What have you felt as you've begun working on this project with WOOP about where to push and pull?

How do you think about this designing of performance lifestyle? You know, there's always this tension between discretion and amplification, you know, when it comes to fashion and communication of Garmin. And I feel that Woop, you know, the nuance and the integrity is so clear in all of the brand and product decisions that have been made and commercial decisions over the years.

It's about capturing that groundedness within the garments, but also making sure there are moments where, you know, you just have pure emotion factor through. And that might be through a particular, you know, technical fabric from an Italian mill or a Japanese mill that we're bringing into play. It might be through particular coatings or licenses coming in. It's also about establishing a platform for fashion

and engineered garments to come together. And I think that comes into the performance aspect, you know, where each garment we're producing has an actual purpose within the actual use of it. It's not about peacocking. It's about decisions that function well and look fantastic with the highest level of materiality brought into play. Well, I've gotten a preview of your work. It's really exciting what we're doing together. And I like your point about amplification versus discretion because there's points in looking at designs for a loop where I think about, leaning strongly towards discretion, like you want to make the product more subtle or you want to make it disappear.

And then on the flip side, because it is such a visible piece of what you're wearing, you do have that opportunity for amplification and for it to be like this big piece of expression or cool. And in some ways, you see that with the fact that WOOP has these bands that are, you know, bright and kind of loud. And Woop also has the ability for you to wear the sensor in a location on your body where no one even knows you're wearing it. And so we're constantly like straddling those two worlds. And I love your recognition of that. It's almost like chords. You know, if you were kind of looking at string chords,

there are different, you know, tiers and and reverbs and they all kind of have a place within one's wardrobe or different chapters of life. And I think, as you said, the closeness to body, which is really quite intimate that group offers and supports and sustains, gives us the opportunity to have a little bit of bow and flex with how amplification and discretion and, you know, minimalistic traits and utility,

and pure moments of the intensity of bursting through your personal target or breaking the new, you know, kilogram or lib lift can come into play as Garmin. For a project like Whoop, did you find yourself first starting with sketches and colors? Did you find yourself making like a few little bullets about the different directions you wanted to go? What was that initial spark, so to speak? It was first listening. I think it was listening and observing and looking at how WOOP moves through the world and understanding the endearing respect I have for the WOOP audience as a whole. There's a fantastic Woop community and I see it as a great community because they truly understand what they're doing.

And there's such a cognizance to and intentionality to what they do, which meant that we had this amazing diaphragm to begin sketching upon and to speak practically that meant a lot of writing. thinking about meaning and ethos and narrative and story and that's where this intention of project terrain which will tell over three chapters will come into play this relationship to at times where we're all city dwellers moving through the ultraviolet lights and you have that pace and that shift in temperature and sound but also moments of complete peace that we all desire and seek for

or make in rural runs in those mounting heights in those cycling moments. It was about making sure we have a system and an ethos that can input and output those examples of modern living, really. Well, you have a very poetic way of putting it, and I'm very excited to bring you back to talk more about Project Terrain. And I love that you mentioned the WOOP community

because for me, even seven, eight years ago, that was such a sign that we were onto something because I'd be wearing a Woop and I'd see someone else wearing a Woop, and that person would come up to me and start talking about the fact that they're wearing whoop, not knowing that I had any affiliation with the company. But I realized that it was something that people would talk about within a first few minutes of meeting one another if they were both wearing a whoop.

And so I thought that was a sign that, okay, this is obviously touching something inside of people, if that's one of the leading behaviors they have from an identity standpoint. Completely. It's a cultural tenant. You know, like I often compare it the feeling you get when you see that vintage defender or like P-38 land. rover, you know, or P4106, new model vehicle. There's an understanding, you know, and sometimes it's not about price being the barrier, but it's an understanding of value and distinction.

And those values are more so internal, you know, and I think that the loop community, it doesn't need me to say, it's had that and it has that. And I'm now, you know, thinking about those moments you see it in passing across every moment that we live through, whether it's in, you know, the gym scenario, whether it's in the public space or the cafe or at the art gallery, there's a deep understanding there. Well, I'm super excited about what we're doing together, and we're going to bring you back to talk more about Project Terrain when it launches.

But thank you, Sam. An absolute joy. Thank you. Thank you, brother. If you enjoyed this episode of the WOOP podcast, please leave a rating or review. Check us out on social at Woop at Will Ahmed. If you have a question was answered on the podcast, email us, podcast at Woop.com. Call us 508-433-49-2.

If you think about joining Woop, you can visit Woop. sign up for a free 30-day trial membership. New members to use the code will, W-I-L, to get a $60 credit on W-W-A-Saccessaries when you enter the code at checkout. That's a wrap, folks. Thank you all for listening. We'll catch you next week on the WOOP podcast. As always, stay healthy and stay in the green.