Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Advice from a Dating Coach (w/ Damona Hoffman)

Episode Date: October 23, 2020

Dating coach Damona Hoffman (A&E Network's #BlackLove, A Question of Love) is here to dish some professional advice. She shares tips for video-dating, setting up your dating app profile, how to stay sane with your partner in lockdown, and so much more! Plus, a conversation on racial bias in dating, navigating interracial relationships, and the struggle of in-person communication. Check out Damona's dating podcast: Dates & Mates Support Black Lives Matter. For a list of resources and ways to help, check out blacklivesmatters.carrd.co. Follow Nicole Byer: Twitter: @nicolebyer Instagram: @nicolebyer Facebook: www.facebook.com/nicolebyercomedy Buy Merch: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/nicole-byer?ref_id=964 Order Nicole's book: www.indiebound.org/book/9781524850746

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why! Baby, welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me, a podcast where me, Nicole Byer, tries to figure out how I'm still single. Even though if you invite me to your house, lock me out, I will wait till you let me in. My guest today is a dating coach and television personality who starred in the series Hashtag Black Love and A Question of Love. who starred in the series Hashtag Black Love and A Question of Love.

She's contributed for The Washington Post, CNN, LA Times, and even for the Match.com app. Yeah, the Match app. She also hosts Dates and Mates Show, as well as I Make a Living podcast. It's Damona Hoffman! Girl, you made me sound so official. I try. Sometimes my intros are not good, But sometimes I get them pretty good.

You did all right. I would say. Thank you. At least a B plus, at least. Thank you so much. I'll take a B plus. In school, if I got like a C, I was like, you know what? That's like truly right in the middle. We should all be happy about this. Well, then you're totally winning already today. Thank you. So, okay. Being a dating coach, what does that entail? I say I am teaching you how to fish. The matchmaker brings you the fish, but the dating coach teaches you how to fish so you can feed yourself with a lifetime of fish if you think men are fish so i mean people are always saying there's other fish in the ocean and i'm like yeah but i wanted that fish that i had i caught it it was tasty and now it's come back from the dead and went back into the ocean not to give away like all of your secrets for free but like what is something that women come to you and they're like I cannot figure this

out when it comes to dating there are so many things the first thing is just dating apps overall so I actually met my husband online I can't I'm embarrassed to tell you how long ago it was. 17 years ago. Wow. So you were like, you're a pioneer of the dating apps. Black don't crack, so you can't. Come on, Marco Polo, she discovering. But yeah, I was a real early adopter then. And so I've been following the evolution of dating apps and the advent of Tinder was the next big disruptor in online dating. And so I've been helping people navigate this space for a long time. And people really love to blame the app.

The app is the problem. They're like, just tell me what app I should do. Is it this one? Is it this one? What's the best one? And there's no best app. It's really about how you use the tool. It's like if you are trying to put a nail in the wall with a saw, you're going to be really frustrated. So if you're using the wrong dating app or you're using the tool incorrectly, of course, you're going to blame the tool. But really, it's how you're using it and which one you're using. Okay. Well, me personally, I'm using all of them. You better believe I got Tinder. I got Bumble. I got Hinge. I got OkCupid. I'm not allowed on eHarmony. I have Raya.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. What happened? So I tried to be an early adoptee of the online dating. And I applied to be on eHarmony. I filled out this long ass fucking questionnaire. It might be shorter now. I do not know. It's still pretty long. It was so long. And it asked me about horses.

This is like maybe 10 years ago, maybe 12. It was a while ago. I still had a Dell. And I've since moved on. That was ancient times. A Mac. It had a dell and that was ancient times um it was this huge dell that was so heavy and i couldn't take it anywhere but i guess they asked questions they were different questions or they were the same question with different wording and that annoyed me i was like why do I have to answer this? This is redundant. So I would answer in a different way each time. So I fucked that up for myself. And I said I was

part of the problem. That's actually a psychology thing to see if if you are trying to game the system, because they'll ask the same question in different ways to see if that really is your your core belief. Oh, you fell for it nicole you fell for it but it didn't work okay i was just so annoyed i said i don't need this this is i don't want to keep answering this question goodbye so yeah i guess i i did not use the tool correctly i threw the tool away and said i'll need it But not every every app is for everyone. So you're on multiple apps right now. What would you say is the biggest challenge that you're running into? I think the biggest challenge, I mean, before the pandemic, it was, I guess I just took a lot of

bullshit from people and I would be I would like bend to that person or like I would like hang out with them before I had a 6 a.m. flight and stuff like that where I didn't know these people were bending for me. everywhere. I think it's just been a lot of talking and I've done like social distance things or whatever. So now I'm ready to meet up with somebody in person, you know, with a mask six feet away until that person is like, I got tested three days ago and I haven't gone out and I'm responsible, which is a lot to ask of a stranger or someone you're getting to know. But for me, that's what I need because I work and I affect a lot of people's lives. So, yeah. And I guess right now the people aren't asking me to meet up. So that's the issue. I don't see that as an issue, though, necessarily. Oh, I think that's actually that. I wish the pandemic, as you say, didn't happen, of course. But I do think it has done some great things for dating and relationships in that it's causing us to really be mindful of who we choose to spend

our time with, because that really matters. Like who you invest time in, who you open your life to, who you potentially put yourself at corona risk for, it really matters. So it's affecting relationships in two ways. Those who are already in relationships, the issues that were already there are being heightened and illuminated. And then for those moving into relationships, it's forcing us to slow down the dating process. And I'm a big fan of moving things along. Like a lot of people before were getting stuck on the dating app, what I call the texting trap. And we can talk about that later,

what that is and how to get out of it. But you know that endless back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. And then it just moved into this hyper speed of just swipe, swipe, swipe. I don't know anything about you. We've just texted back and forth. And now all of a sudden I'm on a date with you. I'm having sex with you. And I don't even know what your last name is. And so people were really in this period

of just frustration and burnout and overwhelm. And that was what I was getting a lot before the pandemic. And now that it's here, I feel that people are really taking their time to to vet their dates and really figure out, do we have do we have common values? Do we have shared goals, which are the biggest factors in long term compatibility? And then now you also have to see, like, is this person safe? Can I actually can I make out with them or more without giving everyone I know coronavirus? Yeah, it's it's tough. And it's it was like hard to navigate online dating before. And now I'm like, oh, now there's new rules. This is it's hard to keep up with. It's constantly changing. There's new rules. There's always like new features, new technology,

There's new rules. There's always like new features, new technology, new data. Like there's always something new. And that's the other benefit of a dating coach. That's what I do. Like I read all of that stuff. I synthesize it all in my podcast and for my clients so that you can just shortcut it because it can be really it can be really overwhelming. And I would imagine that if you're on that many apps, Nicole, you're probably also feeling a little bit of overwhelm and burnout again. A little bit, but I will say I don't really open my Tinder as much because I feel like, not the quality of the people, because I'm sure there's like very nice people on Tinder, but the people I've interacted with don't seem like they're looking for a long-term anything it seems like very hookupy and then bumble i don't i don't like asking people out it uh i especially like on hold up hold on hold on hold on we have to talk about that

are you going to tell me that you're one of those women that is interested in this idea of chivalry? No, I've just been told over and over and over again, men love to chase people. So then I OK, so here is my pattern. My pattern is I talk to somebody. We click. They I don't ask them out. They ask me out. We go out. They're like like teehee you're so great and

fun i'm having a good time i'm like oh i'm having a good time too let's fuck then we have sex and then i'm like the sex was pretty good i would like more of that we go out again and i'm like pretty cool pretty chill and then by the third date i'm like let's fucking lock this up i'm a busy person uh and then that scares people away because it's kind of a hard change to be like, oh, she was so easy breezy, beautiful, not commitment girl. And then she becomes not easy breezy. And like my I guess my true colors come through and I'm like, all right, like I can tell you now that I'm not chill. And this was an act and I'm like all right like I can tell you now that I'm not chill and uh this was an act and I want a partner well oh gosh you said a mouthful there Nicole but there was one

word that really stood out to me when you said you don't have the time like you want to lock it down right that's the other thing that people come to me with this this idea of wasting their time. I've wasted so much time on this date and that date and this person, and I just want it to happen faster. But there's no easy button. There's no speed up strategy. It's really like you just have to go through the process of meeting people.

But I don't know what would happen if you were a little bit clearer about your intentions from the beginning. Or what if you did not have sex like on the first or second date? What do you think would happen? OK, if I didn't have sex on the first or second date and then we had sex on the third date and it was bad, I would be so annoyed. So I spent time. I got to know you i like you now and then now you can't do anything good to my puss i would be so upset about it there it is the time again though the time like you're it's like you don't want to throw good time after bad but if you spend the time up front to see if you have the connection and if if your goals are aligned, then it's,

it's, it'll save you time in the end. Cause think of if you get to the third date and then they don't want to keep having sex anymore, or they are not interested in a longer term relationship. You've actually wasted more time. Hmm. If we really add it up.

Fair, but, but you did, but you did get some in the meantime I guess I'm just like perpetually horny so I'm like I'm getting it this is great how do I keep that going uh but I do see what you mean that like I should truly only try to date people with the same intentions as me well I'm I'm not sure who's the dating expert here, but you seem to have nailed it. Well, you said it and I was listening.

And this is what we do in dating coaching. This is it. And then you come to the realization. That's exactly it. And that's why I always begin my program with mindset, figuring out what you want and who is that person that you're looking for. And I think you can have multiple goals. You can want different things. Like you could want one guy to, you know, be your fuck buddy and you can want another guy to be your relationship.

Maybe not necessarily at the same time, but it's important to have clarity before you move through the process with someone about what you're looking for at that time does that make sense that does make sense uh i just i feel like when you set intentions and tell people these set intentions that scares them because if like on the first date you say oh i'm actually looking to be dating somebody and then they go yikes i don't want that. Goodbye. I guess it's not wasting time. I just I guess I'm afraid of somebody not wanting the same things as me and then having to go on another first date. Okay. See, it does scare them

if they're the wrong match for you, because if your goals are not aligned, then ultimately, for you. Because if your goals are not aligned, then ultimately, why are you wasting your time with them? So we just have to, I know it's hard. It's hard, but it's easy the more that you do it. And we really need to get to this place of authenticity and dating where we are clear about what we want. But Nicole, one of the biggest game changers for the women that I work with, One of the biggest game changers for the women that I work with and so many women online is taking the reins. I say like take control of your dating destiny. Because if you are clear about what you want and you are interested in someone and you make the first move or, or you like on Bumble, that's the whole conceit that women make the first move.

So then you can really drive the things to where you want them to go instead of being, instead of just going along with the flow of whatever that person wants. Cause ultimately if they cut it off after three dates, then you're not, you're not really, you're not really winning either. Yeah, I think the thing about Bumble is I guess I've sent so many like enough people messages where they didn't message me back where I was like, then why did we fucking match?

That is a funny thing. OK, so dirty little secret of dating apps is that men get rejected so often that a lot of them have the strategy of they just swipe they just swipe right on everyone and then they think because they don't want to waste time this is what i hear from guys they'll say i don't want to waste time like reading all these profiles and going through all their photos so i'll just match i'll just match everybody and then if they match me back and write to me, then I will look at their profile and actually see if we're a fit or not. I know. I know.

But see, knowledge is power, Nicole. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is power. So now you know. And you can take the power back, girl. Yeah. And I guess another thing I have issues with is I think a lot of people have this issue where you just take everything personally, where it's like you just told me it's not personal. It's them being like,

I just swipe, swipe, swipe, and then this. And I'm like, oh, they haven't responded back to me because it's me. And it's like, no, they just didn't. They blindly were swiping. You happen to be like, oh, they're kind of attractive. And then they're like, oh, not for me. I literally just told a client this today because she went out with somebody for a second date. And she was like, after the first day, I followed up and kind of made the second date happen. And now after the second date, she's like, should I send a thank you for drinks or anything? And I'm like, no, the ball is now in his court. So give it 48 hours. If he doesn't respond back, that is his that is him saying, I'm not really that motivated.

But you have to remember, it's not you. It's not a reflection of I'm not I'm not pretty enough. I'm not worthy enough. I'm not good enough. It's a reflection of him not being in the same place that you are. So I say like, treat it like coins in the fountain, right? You're throwing coins in the fountain. You're making a wish. And if your wish comes true, that's great. You got your wish. And if it doesn't come true, are you sitting there crying over a penny? It's a penny. You're right. I don't cry over pennies.

You don't need little pennies. Although when I was little, I tried to take them out of the fountain. My mother was like, you cannot steal wishes. That's another excellent analogy. Just go in there, girl, and just snatch those pennies out. And that's kind of what I teach women to do, to really make the life that they want to happen happen like I'm just tired I'm just tired of chivalry honestly I'm tired of us waiting to to have our destiny unfold for us and so I really want to empower women to just like go for what you want but you have to have clarity on what you want from the beginning yeah and i think i me personally i've just gone back and forth on what i want uh for a very long time i was like i just want fuck buddies yum yum yum

give me the dick and now i'm like oh it would be nice to just have a no strings attached dick just at my disposal but also i think i'm ready to be in a relationship but I also I'm like getting to know someone during like corona where it's like because I host another podcast about best friendships and people will be like well what do I do uh to like make new friends and usually it would be like go take a class go do a but like a group activity with somebody. But now it's just like, oh, so now I have to think of all of these things where we are just together without other people and it's just you. And I'm like, that almost seems too intimate just to begin. I don't I think I have intimacy issues.

Well, you bring up a good point, though. It is really intimate and especially even video chat dates, which is the first step for a lot of people now before even getting to the social distance dates. That's really intimate. Like I'm seeing into your home right now. You know, there's so much more information. Like I always tell people to just pay attention to what's behind them and set up their set up your whole space for a date so now you're not just dressing for the date you're like dressing your room for the date because I mean did you do any any video chat dates where somebody like had

their dirty draws like thrown on the floor I haven't done any video chat dates because I don't want someone looking in my house looking at my face face. There you go. I just. Go outside. Do it outside or something. Just like. Maybe. I just, I barely like video chatting with people I love. So now I have a stranger on FaceTime and I'm like, so what, where did you grow up? Yeah.

It's super intimate. And it doesn't have to be weird. If you are meeting a stranger and you're just video chatting, like we are right now, it can be very awkward because there's no other stimulus. Like when you're out on a date, you have other people around, you have other,

you can talk to the waitress. There's other things that you can, can distract you. So I like to put an activity on the first video chat date. So whether it's just like let's play 20 questions or taboo or do sip and paint night, giving yourself an activity can really take the pressure off if you're going to do a video chat date, which sounds like you're not for good reason. I think for me, I would like to set up like an activity in the park i think it's this put a nice idea in my head that it's like oh we don't have to just sit in a park and like talk we could you know sip and

paint i think that's a very fun idea or like uh maybe we do like a meal in the park where it's like you bring appetizers or i don't know like you bring something i bring something and it's like what did you bring and it's silly and fun yeah i think that's a good that was a I think that's helpful for me not in a video chat date because I I truly don't I tried to do it once and it was not good at least you tried it though yes and that's the thing like the the pandemic is causing us to have to be a little bit more creative but it doesn't mean that these opportunities are closed to us. Like, yeah, you can't just go to a meetup or a party and meet someone that way. So we have to be a little bit more mindful and creative about how we're meeting people. But

there's still so many options. Like I did. I did a book club the other day. Usually I can't do a book club because I'm too slow of a reader. But I was like, oh, it's a book I already read. Perfect. And I knew one person, the person who set up the book club and no one else. And I I feel like I left with all these friends because we had it wasn't weird. We were talking about one specific thing. But like there were other people that friended me. I mean, I'm not dating, but, you know, some of the people in the group friended me after and now we have a friendship and you could still do that. You could still do a video book club on Zoom

or you could do, like, I have a wine club. You can join my wine club. Ooh, that's fun. I do have a skate gang where we skate in the park and that has been interesting so one of my friends she's stunning i love her and we were like skating around and she can do tricks and these very hot gentlemen were like chatting her up and then after they left i was like girl did you get a number and she was like no i didn't know how to and i was like this is so funny like people i feel like we're talking to people less.

So it's hard to like flirt. And we forgot how to do it. Yes. And the same thing happened with this very hot man. We were jump roping too. Like the skate gang, we do a lot of. This is sounding very ironic. This is sounding very ironic.

We jump rope and we skate we were jumping rope we skate around we've got a little light at night we had a skip it the other night um p.s not gonna skip it i thought i looked really great doing it it's so hard but this like super hot dude came over with his kid and he was like, oh, my son wants to jump rope. Hello, I'm his dad. And the way he spoke, I was like, oh, you have only spoken to your wife and this kid in the last six months.

And I just thought it was so funny that like, I feel like everyone is having trouble communicating. But yet we want to be communicating so much. It's the pandemic has set some strange shit in motion. Yeah, but it's a good idea to practice conversation anytime. I said this even before the pandemic, but especially now when we are sort of relegated to our own bubble, it's really important to keep that skill. I think dating is a learned skill. And I think the more you practice dating and flirting, I teach people literally how to flirt. It's not something that we innately know how to do. It's something that we learn from watching movies, watching other people do it. And so even if you're

not naturally good at it, you can get better at it. And so I have my clients just starting conversations everywhere they go. Talk to the grocery store checker. Now, of course, you have a mask. So you need to work your like flirting eye game a little bit. Well, see, I have no problem talking to people. I love talking to people. I go to Lowe's. I make friends. I go to the grocery store.

I make a friend at the grocery store. I just when someone is openly flirting back with me, I'm like, Oh, no, I don't excel. Why? It makes me feel insane. And I'm like, Is this real? Or is this person just being nice, because they're in the service industry? Probably a little bit of both. How do you tip is the question? Oh, I tip very I tip well, because I was a server for a very long time and people wouldn't tip me. And then sometimes when I'd be paying my rent, I was like, if that person had given me 20%, I wouldn't be scrounging around my house right now trying to find $10 to pay my fucking rent. I fully understand.

I worked at Olive Garden in college. Ooh, everyone's family. Right. Where everyone orders bottomless breadsticks soup and salad oh my gosh I was so skinny because I was like always running back and forth I need to get a job at Olive Garden but I worked across from like a retirement home and people still tipped like it was it was I don't know the 1930 1930s. Yeah, it's tough. And now since we're in the pandemic, I'll say this to people as a PSA. If you have the means to tip more than 20% for these people in the service industry, do it.

If you have the means to order from your favorite restaurant, do it. They're not doing well. No small restaurant is doing well. And a lot of these places are having a hard time getting loans if you could take a zoom class with the like a small studio uh gym do that as opposed to like taking lessons outside of the big box gym like it's just everything is so fucked and like us as a community we need to take care of each other that's my little psa there you go back to dating the more you know wait, let's take a break. Okay, and we're back.

So I tried to read this Washington Post article that you authored, but I had read my allotted free articles and they told me I had to pay to read this one. I apologize. I didn't pay. Well, that's good because I appreciate that you are staying up on the news, but also support journalism. I know. But I'll give you the CliffsNotes.

It's OK. I got you, girl. Don't worry. OK, so it's about preference and and or racial biases in dating. and or racial biases in dating. And for me, I'm like, that's so interesting because I feel like black women, from what I've read, black women and Asian men are at the bottom of the totem pole.

Mm-hmm. You've read Dataclysm, the OkCupid founder. Took all this data. So that's the data from OkCupid from about 10 years ago. Okay. It is still true. It is still largely true. And I did actually quote it in the article. See, you didn't even need to read it. You're like, I'll just call the author

and she'll just tell me what's in it. But I find that with my clients and I work with a lot of black women and also some Asian men, that it is so much about your mindset, your strategy, and the way that you use the app. And I think if we all go by just statistics, we wouldn't even be working as black women. Girl, we'd just be on welfare. You cannot believe the statistics. That's just their data. And that's one perspective on it. But I see that there's a lot of possibility. The thing with this article, though, Nicole, is that I got a lot of hate mail. Oh, boy.

I mean, you do anything and people go, I'm angry. People be mad about podcasts that are free for them. And I was, truly, people are, I think everyone also has so much more time on their hands to be angry and then be like, well, I'm gonna figure out contact information and let them know how I feel. But people were mad because I was asking them

to really go inside and ask themselves some very hard questions about race. So the whole the genesis of the article was I'm in this Facebook group for also a good place to date people, by the way, to make connections is in Facebook groups. Facebook. Oh, I don't have Facebook. For your listeners, Nicole, for your listeners. Oh, OK. Yes. Yes. uh people listening this is also for you i sometimes forget that people listen and it's not just for me well we can learn a lot from you so we'll start here so i i was in this facebook group for for matchmakers and dating coaches and somebody brought up is it racist if someone refuses to date someone of

another race i think i'm paraphrasing uh but that was basically the gist like if you don't date someone of x race and we can fill in the x blank later but i think you know what race that is if you do not date someone who is X race, are you racist? I don't know what you would say to that, Nicole, but that was very obvious to me. Me personally, I think that is racist. And I think it's a racial bias. Like if you don't think you're racist, I think it's a racial bias that you have about something that you have seen where you've internalized it. So you may not feel like you're racist but it's it is inherently racist to me exactly and that was pretty obvious to me so I was like well it's

kind of the definition of racism excluding someone because of their race and there were a lot of different opinions on both sides on both sides but to But to me, I was like, I have, if this is this controversial to a group of matchmakers and dating coaches, then I have to keep talking about this because obviously I, and I come from a very multicultural family. So to me, it was always like date race open. Like that's the best way to find your match to not have a particular like has to be this race or can't be that race. But it really and I mean, it's it's crazy to me that in 2020, this is the first time I've really been challenged to think about this. But I realized that not everybody had that perspective and that I had to I had to bring that to the forefront. So the article really

is getting you to challenge why do you believe what you believe? And I use this principle with my clients when they come up against a roadblock. It's called the five whys, and it's actually a business technique that the founder of Toyota created. When you have a business problem, you say, okay, why did that happen? And then you follow up each answer with another why. So why won't you date someone who is black? Let's just fill in X with black, okay? Sure. Just for example. Why won't you date someone who is black? Well, because I've never dated someone who is black before. Why? Because I never grew up with anyone who is black. Why?

And then as we start to unpeel the onion, you realize like, oh, it's because there were no black people in my neighborhood. Why? Because my parents or my community kept black people out. Oh, why? Oh. And then we get into this bias of attraction where you're attracted to people and things that are familiar to you. And when we look at that and realize, I have not been exposed enough to people of that race, or they'll say, well, I dated one black person once, and it didn't go well, so let's just cross black people off my list.

That that is, by definition, racial bias, because you're judging that person based on their color and not based on their character. So really, that was the whole purpose of the article was just to unpack that and get people to examine the beliefs. And instead of just saying like, no, that's just my dating preference. Well, is it your dating preference or is it something that's being passed down from generation to generation? Or is it something that because of media and because of all the movies you watch and because of the social circle that you're in, that you are in an echo chamber of like attracting like or having a particular vision of what's beautiful or attractive. And are you brave enough to challenge that and to expand your dating pool and see what might happen? So there were a lot of people that that were like, wow, I'm looking at dating from a new way. But yeah, there are there are a lot of there are a

lot of people that came out of the woodwork that were not willing to examine that. Well, yeah, I think people's argument is, well, I have a preference. It's just my preference. And then I think if you use the tool, why? And just if you truly I think a lot of things could be cleared up and or just solved if you asked why. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

Like, it's just why? Why are we doing this? Why are you doing that? Why do you like why do you think Black Lives Matter is bad? Like why? Why do you think it's bad? Why? Why?

Why? Why? Like if you just went down the line with why it would answer a lot of questions. I think that's it. I think that's helpful for everything, not just dating. It's so great. And when we really examine our beliefs like that's what's fun to me as a dating coach, getting people to evolve their belief systems and see how it impacts their life. And the person that you choose to partner with, if you if you're into monogamy, the person you choose to partner with is the most important decision you'll ever make. It affects your family, your friend circle, your finances, your happiness. It affects everything. So to me, that is the most important decision that you will ever make.

And why not put as much effort and thought into that decision as you do everything else in your life? Yeah. I mean, I've thought about shoes longer than I thought about if I'm going to go on a date with somebody. Shoes are also very important. But, you know, attitudes are definitely changing. And actually, Matt just shared some data with me. They do the Singles in America study every year. This is the 10th year of it. And for years, I've been asking them, will you please, please do some data on race? Because I have had the philosophy that people react based on physical attraction over everything

else first. And I really felt like there was a big shift from the time when the eHarmonies and OkCupid where you had to specify race up front in your profile, and it was out there for everyone to see. I mean, how many times I would search through through a dating profile and it would say like, we'll date Asian, white, Hispanic, empty box, empty box where I should be. Right. And so that tells me a lot about, that would tell me a lot about the person and whether I should reach out to them or match with them or not. But I feel like with swipe apps and the photo being the first thing, it's not me declaring

my blackness. It's you looking at me and saying, is this a person that I find attractive? And do I like what she said or the questions that she answered? That I have believed for a while that that had the power to shift who people were matching with. And so Match's data says that now 24% of singles are more open to dating someone of a different race or ethnicity. I had hoped the number would be a little higher, but. Yeah, that's so, to me, that's small. But that's, you know, since Black Lives Matter now, there's been a huge increase in just that short period of time.

And I don't know. I mean, you and I knew. Do you think it's like a bunch of white people being like, I'm an ally. I'm going to a protest. Damn, these black women are beautiful. Even with a mask on. Woo, sign me up. Do you think that's like what happened i could

only hope girl but i do think it's that people are just now just waking up to the conversation of like oh what there's there's racial bias and like i know you've you've talked before about like the microaggressions that you experience i think that people aren't even aware of it. Like, my husband is white and we have traveled to other places. We live in Los Angeles now. People don't even, they don't look at you. They don't care. You could be walking down the street with, what did you say? Harmony asked you about a horse. You could be walking down the street with a horse. So they're just like, that's fine. That's just horse lives matter. You know, when we were traveling in the South, i won't even say what city because i'm sure you have listeners there but i kept feeling like why are people looking at us people

are asking the waiters kept asking do you want separate checks i'm like what i'm with my husband why are you asking me if i want a separate check? Would they ask? Would they ask a white couple if they want a separate check? Why did they ask at the hotel? Do we need separate beds? No, I ordered a king size bed because this is my husband. And honestly, he was completely oblivious to it. When I said it to him, I was like, I feel I feel the oppression. Yeah, it's interesting what, I don't want to say all white people, but like what some, I won't even say,

like it's when you are not part of the other, you don't understand microaggressions. I say that when I talk about like LGBTQIA stuff, sometimes I'm blind to an issue you know uh because I don't like live in that world yes I have a lot of friends but like friends can't teach you everything and I don't expect them to but like I had a little microaggression the other day and we were talking about this before uh we started recording but I went to a like a studio lot because you know, I get to shoot this pilot. I'm so excited about it,

but we get COVID tested a bunch and I got confused about where I was supposed to park. So a PA grabbed me, parked me, walked me over to the COVID tests and she went away because she was, you know, working and she was a young black woman and the nice white nurse looked at me and went, someone else was here. Yeah. And I was like, she's like, where'd your sister go? And she was a young black woman. And the nice white nurse looked at me and

went, someone else was here. Yeah. And I was like, she's like, where'd your sister go? And I was like, I was like, well, there was another person here. Yes, there was another black person here, but they were not my sister. And then she was like, oh, and then there was a, I believe, Hispanic woman. She looked Hispanic to me. She she might not i don't know um and then a black woman there and they were like they were waiting for that to happen it was just so funny because i made eye contact with everybody and everybody was like oh girl you went in and it was just funny because it's happened on planes i've had people be like is that your husband and i'm like he's three rows back no that's not my husband or your sister's sleeping does she want something I'm like no this fat

black lady next to this fat black lady is not my sister it's such a weird fucking thing or like getting asked if I belong in places is something that like I don't think a lot of white people have experienced oh yeah and even just like walking into stores like I like I have to think about how I am dressed, because if I walk into the store and I'm wearing that even happened today, I was driving. We were doing a little road trip with the fam and girl, I really had to pee. I really had to pee. I went to three places just to pee. And finally they were like across the street at this restaurant. And I was like, I was like, uh, I will order something, but please, can you please open up the door to the restroom?

And I swear to you, Nicole, she looked me up and down. Cause I was just wearing like my scrubbies. I just came from the, you know, the car. And she looked at me like,

should I even open the, the bathroom for this woman? Like, is she going to go like, you know, heroin in it or something? And then she opened it for it for me. And I was fine. And then I ordered a quesadilla, but, but it's like, is she going to go like, you know, heroin in it or something? And then she opened it for me and I was fine. And then I ordered a quesadilla.

But it's like just those little moments of being examined and threatened and the microaggressions. Sometimes people are not aware of it. But I say all of this to say it's not a reason not to date race open. And also for I hear a lot of times for black women they'll say well I don't want to date someone of another race because I don't have to educate them about all this or explain my culture but I feel like if we don't explain it or if we don't allow them to experience it I don't know how they will really understand. And like it took my husband really seeing it. Honestly, I don't think he even understood all of those microaggressions really

until like this year. And he was like, you know, I think you were right. I'm so sorry. I didn't believe you 10 years ago when you told me that it was racist for them to keep asking if you wanted separate checks from me. But we have to be willing to go there if things are going to change. We have to expose ourselves to other cultures because you can't just be like, well, Black Lives Matter. I mean, I don't know any of them, but they matter. Yeah. We have to make a little bit more of an effort, I think.

Yeah, I've always thought it was very strange when people were like, well, that's my preference. And I'm like, oh, I think like in my brain I have an image of what I'd like my partner to look like but I also fully understand that like if I meet somebody and I connect and click with them I wouldn't not date them because they didn't fit this stupid little thought I had I think that's it's so strange to me that is it it's the world and it's been the world for a while. And then the other reason that people tell me they're not open to it, of course, is because of family. Well, I don't think I could

bring this person around my family. That's truly so fucked. Because why would you let your fucking family limit you? How wild. I barely like my grandparents and i would love to bring them somebody that they weren't happy with just to make them angry i'm sure they would be happy with whomever made you happy but oh no they'd be like nicole's happy oh we gotta figure out a way to make her sad my grandparents are the meanest people and in america and i've been going on podcasts being like my grandpa's blind in one eye and he's still driving. If you live in Chicago, report him. His name is Elmo Beyer. It's for everyone's safety that he shouldn't drive.

Well, at least they found each other, right? They can make each other miserable together. Yes. Yes. Is it hard to navigate an interracial relationship during this time where we have a president who was elected who's fully racist and xenophobic and not nice? That's my hot take. He's not nice.

Well, I would say it is easier certainly now than it was like when my parents did it. Like my parents would get looks. People would come up to him in restaurants and say, you shouldn't be together. Like, and that was not that long ago when we really think just a couple of generations ago, like we like to complain about dating and about race relations and all this,

but it's like, well, I don't know, 50 years ago, like my relatives were being like blown down the street by by water hoses and chased with dogs, you know, so it's like we have made some progress. And I think it's a difficult time for for interracial dating. But you know what? That's so funny for you to say. I'm so sorry. It's so funny that you're like, my relatives were being blown down the street by hoses, chased by dogs. And we've made some progress because we're not doing that anymore in some places yeah that's true like

sometimes we still are being blown down the street by water hoses and chased by dogs but still progress has been made nicole you have to admit progress has been made yes yes progress has been made beyond even race, I'm finding that political relations are impacting dating more than ever. And that's actually now becoming the biggest filter for a lot of my clients. Like the first thing they will say is, I will not date a Trump supporter.

And they want to put it in their dating profile bio, like right up front. I always say you want to lead with the positive stuff, like nothing, there should not be anything in your profile. I love say you want to lead with the positive stuff like nothing. There should not be anything in your profile. I love how I'm saying this with a negative, but do not say anything in your profile that's negative out of the gate. Don't even talk to me if you have if you have kids like no smokers. Don't even bother. Like people will put that right up front. So now it's no Trump supporters. I like to take a little bit more of a more subtle and open minded approach.

But I saw the study the other day that said 84 percent of people will not date someone with an opposing political view. And that did not used to be the case. Like we used to be able to have conversations about it. Right now it's it's's it's yeah I mean everything is just getting so divisive and so further right and so further left I mean when I see no Trump supporters me personally that's a turnoff for me because I'm like this is so important to you to say on your dating app does this mean you're only gonna talk to me about politics like i'm happy you lean left i lean left but there's so many other parts about me that i'd rather that you get to know and vice versa so like for me i'm like no i just i hate that you're bringing politics into dating just right off the bat i think any negative at the top of your profile

just putting that out there, it can be read as negative. It can be misread. And it can also be read as you're being negative. And so many times it's a reflection of that person's bad dating experiences previously. Like people will have a bad dating experience and then be like, well, I guess I got to put this in my profile

to prevent it from happening again. But then when you do that, you actually turn off everybody else as well. So we don't do that in my program. We don't do that. We just let our dating profile draw them in with commonalities. So if you said something like,

I love watching Rachel Maddow, then the people know. If they watch Sean Hannity, they're like, thank you, yes, thank you. No, thank you. This might not click for us. That's that's great. And then it brings it back to what we were saying before with when you're like afraid

if you say something that they might reject you or they might say like, oh, I'm not interested. But that's good. If you are that politically opposed, you want the people that are turned off by Rachel Maddow to run away if you are that turned on by her in the non-sexual sense, of course. No, I get it. With the Tinder profile. So Tinder lets you just like freely write whatever you want. What is your advice for free writing a profile? Because I prefer Hinge where there's prompts. That to me, lends someone to seeming a little bit more creative than they are. One, two, I just I'd

rather read prompts than like someone's soliloquy about who they is to them. Well, a lot of people have trouble with that, which is why I actually have a profile starter kit that I have. Like, remember Mad Libs where you used to like fill in the blank? Yes. I basically did that with dating profiles. I took some of my top dating profiles and then I just like made it fill in the blank because people are just like, I don't know what to write. Like everybody is so tired or so lazy. I'm not really sure which they're like, just give me the plug and play profiles. And it totally works. But beyond that, you want to think about telling stories. Like if you say, instead of just saying like, oh, I love listening to

jazz music. I don't know. I don't know who listens to jazz music anymore but whoever listens to jazz music instead of just saying that say like i'll never forget the concert the last i don't know name a jazz musician um a jazz musician billy holiday oh she did i'll never forget the first Philly holiday concert that I went to. I was three. No. But something that tells a story about your life and that kind of paints a picture, that's a lot more compelling than just listing something, listing your interests, listing your wants. That's for the written part. But let's be honest, we are in the Instagram age. We are not reading very thoroughly anymore. So your pictures are going to be the most important part of your profile. And I've actually said this from the beginning, but it's never been more true

than it is right now. So you want to have what I call the three C's. Color, context, character. Okay. Context, character, color, because I'm like a dating scientist. I like to look at it from a strategic point of view. So when you see the color red, what do you do? When I see the color red. You stop. I don't know. You stop. Oh, yes. I stop. Yes. This is where we all learn that I'm a bad driver you're talking about your grandpa honestly i should be stopped too because i think most stop signs should be yields so i don't completely stop that explains the confusion but most people see red and we are trained we are trained to stop the red stop signs red stop lights it's also something that in nature we see animals when they're trying to attract certain parts of their body will actually turn red so it's also something that in nature we see animals when they're trying to attract certain

parts of their body will actually turn red so it's biological and studies have also shown that men especially will respond favorably to the color red they did this study they showed guys pictures of all of these women and they changed the color border on the photos. So they changed it from red to green and other colors. And they found that men would rate the same woman as more attractive when it was a red border. They wouldn't even realize they're sorting through so many photos and they'd be like, really attractive, not that attractive. And red had that much impact on the way that they saw the lady. so if you wear red or you have red in your background what you're saying is stop pay attention to me look at my other pictures

and that is what gets you to the next phase do red lips help at all or it has to be like red background no it could be red lips absolutely. So thinking of it doesn't have to be red, but ideally color like we've all been trained to wear the little black dress. It's slimming. It's cute. But it's I mean, when I swipe for my clients, it's just like a sea of black and monotone colors. So if you just have a little bit of color you will stand out the second c is context this is telling your story through your photos so this is the one that most people do know to do but sometimes forget so you know if you like playing a hey your skate gang like get some photos with your skate gang i'm dying to see well i have one I have one where I've fallen down.

Okay, I hope you're going to put that one up on Instagram. That is an interesting choice for a dating profile, being face down in the gutter. You might get a different kind of match from that type of photo. But what that photo does demonstrate, Nicole, is the third C, which is character. Showing your personality through your photos. And that's the one that most people miss. Everyone's trying to live their best life and look all cute and polished. But really, it's the photos like that that make someone say, oh, she has a great sense of humor. I think she would be really fun. I think she would get me because that's the other thing that people are looking

for. When you're swiping through, you're not just like, I'm attracted to this person. You think, oh, that person might also like me back. They're my kind of person. And so that's the one that a lot of people are missing in their dating profiles. So you really only need about five photos is the sweet spot. People put way too many pictures on their dating profile. It's like, this is not your Instagram. This is a curated look at your life because all you're trying to get the person to do from the profile is to write you back or send a message to you and then go to the next step, whether it's a phone call, a video chat, or a social distance date Like you don't need to know their whole life story. You're not going to figure that all out in text. You're just trying to get get to the next step.

So that for that reason, I'm also not really a fan of linking the Instagram because sometimes it's just too much information. I don't link my Instagram. I try to not give it. I'd rather someone like discover me through me than like be like, here's everything. Look at my Instagram. Here's my first and last name. Google me. So I only have like my first name and not like too much information. So like the prompts I answered on hinge are, um, it says dream dinner guest.

I said the minions easy to social distance with them and them bitches. Tiny. My childhood crush. I said, Captain Picard from Star Trek. And then, uh, what I want to be when I grow up,

I said a bus driver or a mechanic. Cause that's true. And so is the childhood crush. Actually, all of it's true. And so is the childhood crush. Actually, all of it's true. I would love to have the minions. I think they're so funny. That is a great profile, Nicole, because it has your personality.

It has clarity. You mentioned Star Trek, which isn't a turn on for me. But I can't tell you how many guys that I see that are really bold about their love of comic-con comic-con and gaming i'm like y'all don't have nothing else to do i mean i worry that i might attract someone who's like really deep into it i just i truly just watched deep space nine with or not do you say sign i watched star trek the next generation with my dad so that like holds a nice thing in my heart but i'm like i'm not trying to like go to a Comic Con I'm not trying to dress up like anything yeah you go to Comic Con

if there wasn't the Rona you would go thank you no but my Tinder profile you probably won't like what I wrote here so it's been up like this for such a long time because I don't really go on Tinder too much anymore but I said definitely a thought the happiest out there which makes me laugh really hard I'm a known seltzer hog because I love't really go on Tinder too much anymore. But I said, definitely a thought, the happiest out there,

which makes me laugh really hard. I'm a known seltzer hog because I love seltzer. And then I'm a dark bottom filled with cream because my friends said that to me and it made me laugh really hard, but maybe not great for someone to read. Then I wrote, I'm looking for a funny person who gets it and I love to teehee.

Well, you know, you get what you pay for, right? Yeah. I mean, it is a free app. It's a free app. And I would have met, you said you got hookups from the app. I mean, it's kind of a provocative, well, the cream and the what? That's pretty provocative, I would say. Maybe a little too much. Well, you get out, you get back what you put out so if you so if you put out that putting out oh fill me up with cream i would maybe take a little bit of a uh another pass on that one i think also sense of humor of course for anyone who knows you or for anyone who knows this podcast or everything else that you do that's fabulous they know your sense of humor but the people on tinder like you don't want to go out with anyone who knows your sense of humor or really knows who you are that much i would say you want to be yeah you want it to be a

fresh connection right ideally yeah or if you know who i am like i dated a dude who had listened to me on a couple podcasts but if I told him information that I he may have heard on a podcast he never was like oh yeah I know he would just go uh-huh he's playing it off though which is I enjoyed that about him keep it cool guys keep it cool yeah so I don't know it's dating's hard and I guess I guess I just have to accept that it's hard and that I have to put the work in if I want something to come out of it. No, no, no. Let's start over, Nicole. It's not hard. It's only hard if we make it if we make it that. But if we it requires clarity, It requires a little bit of process

and a little bit of time. But once you, once you figure that out and once you, we can work on this together, Nicole. We can work on this together. I can have you on the Dates and Mates podcast. We can show everybody how fabulous your dating life is there. But once you, once you get that system in place,

it's so easy. And that's what everybody tells me like, oh, I was doing it the wrong way it's like when you're doing an exercise if you're doing it the wrong way it feels like a lot of work and then all of a sudden you get an alignment and you're like oh this isn't that hard and I've worked that muscle and now it's okay so we just need to get you past that point but i would say if if if i may give you your uh your homework okay i would say you need to cut down on the number of apps two apps no more than two apps okay think of the three c's in your photos i can look at your photos later for all of them color context character

and i think nicole you have to take your dating destiny into your own hands. I would say, I think Bumble could be a good match for you. But even if you're not on Bumble, I think you doing the picking, you're choosing, you're not getting chose. So you pick the ones that you want to connect with. And then I think it'll be golden. And then we'll have to change the name of your podcast. Why will you date me? then we'll have to change the name of your podcast why will you date me then you'll have so many you'll be like oh why will you date me I have to now I have to make

some decisions what a dream that would be it's happening I am affirming this for you I also believe in like all that visualization stuff too. So I'm affirming that for your future. Thank you. I, yeah, I, this, I feel, I feel hopeful. She said, and then she laughed and put her head down for those who could not see you. I do. This conversation has made me feel a little bit hopeful. We are winding down, but I did want to ask real quick, just for people who are like, things are still like kind of shut down. So people who are in quarantine with their significant other, what are some tips to keep it good? Look, I can understand. I relate to this. I have two children at home and a husband. And first,

you have to have your own space. You have to have your own space and your own stuff going on. And actually, this is a good tip for people who are dating as well. People are looking for a match to be their everything. Like, I want to have the exact same interests. I want to go to the same places. I want to be here together all the time. We can work together and then we can be together at night. And it's just too much. And that is not how we were really designed to partner and mate. Like my husband and I have very little in common, but we have the same values. We have the same goals for the future and we love each other. And that's all we need. We have separate spaces that we work during the day, and I know not everybody, like if you're in an apartment,

you don't have a lot of space, you can still create your own little work area. Get your Apple AirPods. Oh my gosh, those have changed my life. Their noise canceling has literally changed my life. I just put them in. I'm in my own world. You can't talk to me and I block out my day. So I have family time. I have couple time and I have

work time. And keeping those boundaries really clear will keep your sanity during the pandemic in your relationship. I like that. I do that with my roommates. I live with two people and we try to like not keep our distance during the day, but like we are we separate. We like we work separately. And then we at night will like watch a movie together, like watch TV together or like plan a day where we go do something. But like we try to not like get on each other's like nerves or be in each other's faces for too long during the day. And that's been very helpful. It's so helpful. And then when you're in a relationship, you also have to have something to look forward to.

Like if you think back to if you're in a relationship for your listeners, if you think back to when you first met, you had all that anticipation. And like, Nicole, you know, as you're dating, you're experiencing that anticipation of like, oh, the second date, I'm going to see him again. What's going to happen? The third date. Oh, is it where's it going to go from here? And you have to maintain that sense of anticipation in a relationship. You can create it by setting up date nights or, you know, planning, just planning an activity that you have together. And even in the middle of pandemic, like I've done

some Airbnb nights. We've had sip and paint night outside. We make plans to be together. And then it gives you something to look forward to. I'll say like next Thursday, I have a date with my husband. And then the whole time I'm leading up to that with the anticipation, kind of like back when we were dating again. Oh, I like that. And now it's a little bit, thank you. It's a little bit easier too, as like the pandemic restrictions are loosening. You know, you figure out what you're comfortable with, but there's more that we can do. We're not stuck in our homes. And I feel like a

lot of times it's easy to just get stuck into that routine. And believe me, I've been wearing yoga pants like nobody's business. But just to have some reason to get dressed up, to put makeup on, to feel like a lady again, or a a guy or something in between, whatever your listeners want to be, to feel like yourself and it's something special, that is really a worthwhile feeling to have. Yeah. I also like to dress up and have a thing to do.

Well, Damona, we've come to the end. I asked my guests this would you date me don't you know i would date you oh yay i love it swipe right swipe right thank you i love hearing that um is there anything that you want to promote the dates podcast. Honestly, I love talking about love in case you can't tell y'all. I've been doing the show for eight seasons, eight years of Dates and Mates. I know. I know. And we really we really would love to have you on so we can come in and we could talk about that real quick. I would love to do it real quick. I know so many questions. How did you get into being a dating coach? Quite by accident. I don't think anyone intentionally chooses to be a dating coach. But after I met my husband, I had so many people that came to me and said,

well, you seem to have figured out this weird online dating thing. How does it work? And I realized I was actually working as a casting director in television. And I was teaching classes at night for actors on how to market themselves and have headshots that really told their story and stood out to someone like me. And I was like, oh, so basically it's just the headshot is your dating profile photo. And the first date is an audition. So once I kind of systematized that and started writing people's profiles with that in mind, people would say,

I met someone, I'm getting married, I'm having a baby. And then it just sort of grew and snowballed from there. I love it. It's just, it's been a long time that I've just, I love helping people figure this out. And I, I know you wouldn't believe it after this conversation, but I was truly a cynic in love. I mean, I was that girl. I was like, it's not going to happen for me. These men are all idiots. I was really cynical. And once I started approaching dating with that kind of a system and with a mindful process, like I did this whole system for myself

called Operation Date Nice Guys. I called it Operation DNG. And I literally, I shifted my mindset and who I was looking for and the way that I was dating. So once that happened for me, it really, it's, love is contagious. And it really became my mission to help other people because I had been through, I had been through it. And I realized, oh my gosh, it doesn't have to be that hard. Like people always ask me, how do you know? How do you know if he's the one? How do you know if your relationship's worth fighting for?

And I'm like, you know, when you're not asking that question, it doesn't have to be that hard. And it really shouldn't be. So that is why I made it my mission to help people in love well I love it um do you have a website that people can go to yes datesandmates.com I love it okay thank you so much for doing this I truly appreciate it if you enjoyed this episode of Oh, Why Won't You Date Me, you can like, you can subscribe,

you can rate it five stars on iTunes, and if you write me something dirty, I will read it, hitting on me. So this person said, I love you, but this is dirty even for me, but I want to take you on a date to Ample Hills Creamery in Astoria where I let you pick any flavors you want.

It has to be a cone. We go back to my place, and i want you to stick the sharp end of the cone in my ass oh boy and go to town and have a lady and tramp moment ew with the flavor of your with your chosen flavor of the day and the flavor of my sweet hole blending it together in a soft cream swirl ew after you've savored your ice cream in my butt, we'll cuddle in a glorious post booty hole. Quatus. I'll be the big spoon. Uh, while you're the big spoon or while your big spoon is the Emmy you deserve for

the performance you just gave to win my heart and hole. So thank you very much for that. It's not the most, don't choose chocolate. Don't choose chocolate flavor. Yeah. If you use chocolate,. You have to use chocolate. Then it gets a little confusing. Okay.

Bye-bye. This has been a Team Coco production.