Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Defending Our Marriage (w/ Latrice Royale & Christopher Hamblin)

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

Drag Race royalty Latrice Royale and her husband Christopher Hamblin join Nicole to discuss the wild story of how he went from a fan organizing a messy meet-and-greet to Latrice’s husband. They get real about what it's like to work and be married together, open up about the reception of their interracial marriage, and shut down the wild accusations they've received about their relationship.Latrice also reveals that Drag Race filming is so strict she actually had "more freedom in jail," and shares why she went from never wanting to get married to realizing she needed it in her life. Plus, the couple finally sets the record straight on the famous Jasmine Masters "Pop the corn" quote - complete with receipts drawn by Manila Luzon. #JusticeforJasmineSee Latrice and Christopher on tour with Why It Gotta Be White Christmas?! Get tickets at latriceroyale.com/schedule.Watch this episode on our YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/@WhyWontYouDateMePodcastSupport this podcast and get discounts by checking out our sponsors:Aura Frame: Exclusive $35 off Carver Mat at https://on.auraframes.com/DATEME. Promo Code DATEMESquareSpace: Head to squarespace.com/DATEME to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code DATEME.Planned Parenthood: Donate to support Planned Parenthood now at PlannedParenthood.org/defend.Follow:All Links: linktr.ee/whywontyoudatemeTour Dates: linktr.ee/nicolebyerwastakenYouTube: @WhyWontYouDateMePodcastTikTok: @whywontyoudatemepod Instagram: @nicolebyerX: @nicolebyerNicole's book, #VERYFAT #VERYBRAVE: indiebound.org/book/9781524850746This is a Headgum podcast. Follow Headgum on Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok. Advertise on Why Won't You Date Me? via Gumball.fm.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Want to watch this episode? Catch the full video on YouTube. Just hit the link in the episode description. This is a headgum podcast. We're getting a lot of discussion about the fact that we're interracial. That's the thing, too. Not to interrupt you, but how do you deal with that? How do you deal with people?

Because I feel like on Twitter, people really like to talk about women with the girls in interracial relationships. I guess, yeah, you really can. I mean, you're the first thank you for. actually asking that question and providing a space for me to say that that there's an entire conversation about my marriage that I feel like I can't participate in. Yeah. That is fucked up.

Yeah, it kind of is. And this is what I have to say them people. Mind your business. Number one, I am in love with someone who's in love with me. I went with love. And if there was a black person who showed me the kind of love that this man sat here and showed me, then I would be all about it. But ain't nobody

step to the plate. So if you step to the plate, then I'm going to entertain that. I'm not going to miss out on my blessing because he's white. That sounds stupid. You sound ridiculously stupid, and that's why you're single and miserable. Get yourself some self-love and find you somebody who's going to love your raggedy, broke damn ass. Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why. Ooh, baby, welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me, a podcast where me and Nicole Byer was trying to figure out why I was so single,

even though you could come on my counter and say, that's just a cookies and cream bar. I got Mars. My guests today are a married couple. one is a drag race legend and miscongeniality. The other is a musical director and long time creative collaborator.

You can see them together on tour with their holiday show. Why? I got to be why Christmas? And now until the end of the year. I'm so excited. It's La Trace Royale and my best friend, Christopher Hamblin.

Yay! Hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi. That's the best line reading of our title ever. We refuse to change the name of the show. Oh, shit. Did I say it right? No, you said it perfectly. People usually try to add a white, got to be a white Christmas,

or why does it have to be white Christmas? And that right there in itself, when you say, why does it have to be, you already know you're not black. Why does it have to be a white Christmas? That's very funny. No, why got to be white Christmas? We don't know.

These are the questions. I love it. Wait, so you guys tore together. You collaborate together. You lived together. You are married together. We are all those things. Is it hard?

Not right now. I mean, I can get it up. If you want. Not right now. I mean. No, no. Like, at times, yeah, of course it's difficult because, you know, you have to balance so many things and so many hats.

And whether you're talking to your spouse or your, you know, assistant. Assistant. Let's just say it. Yes, yes. I have to know which hat I'm wearing and who's speaking, you know. I say I'm married to Tim, but I work for Latrice. So those are pretty clear concepts for me anyway. That's a good separation to just be like two different people.

Well, he was really clear early on. Like, when we first started dating, like, I knew it was serious when he said, I'm going to need you to not call me girl. I was like, oh, we're not sisters. No. Because she doesn't kai-kai. Oh. And I was, and so girl was just how I taught girl.

Like, I mean, the way I would speak to you were one of my girlfriends and we were girlfriends. Mm-hmm. So that was when we knew like, oh, we're in trouble. I guess that. I had to stop calling the nice man in my life, girl. Because I'd be like, girl, please. And he would just look at me and I'd be like, yes, you're not one of my girls.

You're also a straight man. And I don't know why. I keep saying, girl, stop. One of our best straight guy friends, we have to girl and bitch him every now and again, too, because he is shadier than any of us. Like, every now and again, the stuff that follows out of his mouth is so gay that there's no response to girl. Girl, please. Correct. I say it to him all the time.

And I just, sometimes I'll say it and then just blink and go, I know. I'm sorry. I mean, at this point, like, he has to know. You surround it around. I guess. Because you bra people, too. No, I don't. Oh, you don't.

Brah. bruh, it just doesn't sound natural coming out of my mouth, bruh. No, it doesn't. Hey, bruh. Hey, dude. No, I do say dude sometimes. You say dude. Oh, you're a dude, right.

Come on, dude. Well, yes. That sounds cute. You're a bit of a valley girl. She's a bit of a valley girl. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. So you met after Latrice, you were doing a drag show.

You met afterwards, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And how did that meeting go? How did you introduce yourself? Because I met you after one of LaTriece's show. Well, let's start there. Because what a moment. Like, really like, you, we were at the Rockwell table and stage, right?

RIP. And, oh, she no longer. Oh, yeah. May she rest in a piece indeed. That is sad. Oh, wow. I wish, yeah. But you came and I think you had been on TV a couple of times,

but loosely exactly was about to happen. I believe so. And I don't want to misrepresent, but you seemed very moved by the performance. Yeah, the Treesher reminded me of my mother, and I was like, wow, my dead mom's here. And that's what I said to you. Literally the first thing that came out of your mouth to me.

Hello, I'm Nicole. Can you tell Latrice you reminded me of my dead mom? And you blinked at me, and you were like, uh. And who was your friend that was with you? Who did you have with you? Oh, God. I wish I could remember. Oh, I think it was my friend Maureen.

I think that's who it was. That sounds right. She was protesting losing her performance space, not my attitude. Right, exactly. Maureen. And she vouched. She was like, I know she sounds crazy, but she's like about to be on TV. And I promise, like, really, she's sane.

And I went upstairs to Latrice, and I said, there's this girl downstairs who's, like, really passionately wanting to tell you about her connection. And here we are. And here we all, years later. The glow up is so real. We have just watched you go like stratospheres. I mean, same for you guys. Well, thanks, yeah. Well, thanks.

We're doing all right. Yeah, you know. I went to her show like any other hope. There's no way to not make me sound like that. I went to the meet and greet. The meet and greet was. Did you go to the meet and greet with like intentions? Well, I mean.

I think he did, but not in the way, it didn't play out the way that maybe he had in mind because the meet and greet was going to shit. It was, and he caught my face. Like, I was ready to bounce. Oh, shenanigans were happening? Well, because first of all, okay, they hadn't had very many girls from the show at the club. So they were very green and figuring it out. But somebody had the brilliant idea to put the meet and greet in between the two shows.

So when do I? I get a break. When do I get to pee? When do I get to pat off? Meanwhile, I was also catching the face of our dearly departed friend, Zena, who was the show director, and she wasn't going to get a smoke a cigarette or piss or nothing. And she was bitter boots, like, just mad. And so I thought, and at the time, I was the music director at the gay church. I was directing the gay men's chorus. I was, like, really, like, really. Yeah, yeah, all that is true. And so it mattered to me whether someone like Latrice, but specifically Latrice, had a good time in our community.

Like, please don't walk away going, oh, don't like to tell jujubi not to come to Knoxville. You know what I mean? Like, that was going to be, don't let that be the reputation. So I stepped in to help because, you know, I'm not your average fan. I, you know, was, I knew how to help. And I did. And I've been running meet and greets for 13 years now. I like when people step in and they're like, no, no, no.

This is going very poorly You get over there You over here You I was at a It was like a Not a clothing swat It was like a I don't know

A costume department Was clearing out their clothes And it was like chaotic And this lady was like Okay we're gonna move this box over here And we're gonna move this over here And I was like that's my hero That bitch right there

Thank you Some order You have to And the quorum money please I'm not good at that I'll just be like I will fully rearrange A bookstore for free

I like if in the Stephen King's section And if, like, Salem's lot is before Carrie, I can't be bothered until I move it. That's my particular form of... A real tism. A little special and a little special. No, I get that. I got that. So what was your first interaction like?

She dropped her Sharpie. And he bent over to pick it up. Mm-hmm. And you said, ooh, ooh. Oh, and that's what I see? So I dropped it again. Girl. What is a white boy getting all these cakes?

So, you know, I was flirting like I, you know, like Queens do, and he was keeping up tip for tat, like he was not back and down. He had a rebuttal for every comment or whatever. So I was like, oh, bitch, you're not, you're not scared. He's like, bitch, I'm grown too. I was like, oh, okay. So immediately I'm intrigued, you know. Okay. So, you know, I invited him to, like, hang out afterwards.

To the shock and appall, I think, of some of the people at the club. I don't think they were prepared for me to be the one that Letrice noticed. Like, because, like, I mean, I'll just be real. They all thought I was crazy already. Like, I was doing things very out of the box and not what Knoxville was accustomed to. Well, I had gone to New York and tried to have my little club kid moment.

You know what I mean? And, like, you know, I'd gone on some adventures, you know? Sure. Like, some people, you know, people had opinions and ideas. And then when LaTreis didn't know, notice now they all knew me when, right? Now everybody is like, oh, I've known him since. Uh-huh.

Well, yeah, you have, but you didn't seem to care then. But now that I'm married to a drag-ray superstar, here you are. But it's great. I love that they embraced it. Like, the community has watched me evolve as well, which is a really lovely blessing because it wasn't what I was expecting to happen. Now, did you ever think you would get married? Because Latrice, I feel like you said you would never get married.

No, this is the last thing either of a stop was going to happen. And then you were like, we just have to do it? Who proposed to who? It was right after the Pulse Orlando incident. And we had just lost a really good friend of ours there, as many of us did. And he left the house one day. And I really thought that he was, like, going somewhere to, like, try to find me Xanax. To calm me down.

And it turned out that he was going to buy an engagement ring that I didn't know about. And that next weekend, we went to Seattle to, again, rest in peace, our place. One of our favorite clubs in a really legendary spot. And she called me up on stage. Right after my number. And I got down on one knee. Well, the thing of it is, like, I hadn't seen this possibility, you know, in my lifetime, you know, things were happening.

And then, like, marriage equality, I was fighting for marriage equality. I was touring and doing all kind of, you know, rallies and trying to get people to vote. So then when it passed, and I started doing, I got ordained because a friend of mine wanted me to officiate. So once I started doing weddings

and bringing these couples together and seeing the magic of the harmony between both sides of the family, I'm like, it didn't matter that it was, the same sex. Love was the common denominator. And I was just like, how am I doing this and not getting me a piece? Do you know what I mean? I was, it was like I was moved to tears every time I was you know, involved. And so then I'm like, I need this in my life. And yeah, I knew I knew that he was the one. Like I wasn't going to do it until I was absolutely positively sure. And,

I was. And what was the moment where you knew that he was the one? Well, I mean, I don't want to speak for you, but I came out the gate hot. Like, I don't know what possessed me looking back. It sounds crazy. But that first night that we met, and I did go back to the hotel room, he was trying to be modest about taking a shower and whatever. It was like, we all watched you on TV. Like, I've seen you in and out, like, take your shower.

I'll be here when you get back. Also, I want to make sure he wants to steal my money. That, too. Fair. Totally fair. Totally fair. The tip, darling. I'm worried about the tips. That'd be funny if you pulled your duffel bag of ones in the shower with you. You're like, I'll take the shower, but I'll bring this with me. I'm going to bring this with me. But that night I said, I think I know what you're doing.

And if you agree, I'd love to hang out. And if you think I'm in the way, I'll get out of it as soon as I can. but I think what you're doing matters in the world and I want to see that continue and I really need you to not burn out and so you've got this Latrice thing under control but like is anybody taking care of Tim and I don't know why I would be moved to say that like I wasn't aware of feeling like

oh I'm so in love with this person at that time but I just as an objective fan of this individual and the work that they put into the world I still believe that today, like, whether we were married or not. That's incredibly sweet. This person matters in the world, and it's my privilege to help take care of him. That is so sweet that on the first night you were like, I see you as a human being. Like, you know, the glam, the glitter aside, I just want to make sure that, like, you're taking care of.

That must have felt. That was beyond anything anyone has ever said to me. Like, I've been in and out of relationships and whatever. but no one has ever just separated it and was like, no, you, this person right here, are you okay? We need you. I love that so much. Why are you getting me to cry on this podcast? Because love is sweet.

Love is wonderful. I'm a hopeless romantic and I love love and I love when people are moved to tears because of someone they love. That's just, I don't know. I think that's so romantic and nice Sometimes when I talk about my relationship I will just like tear up And I'm like I love him So much

But you had the same response You were moved to tears at a performance And hearing this person's story And what they bring out in I don't know what the kids get out with Latrice But I don't think there's nobody else in the world That provides that like it so I agree I don't know

You're an incredible performer Where did that come from? Just experience Like you have to I feel like in order to be like a well-rounded performer, entertainer, anything, artist has to come from a place. You have to have gone through something, gotten through something, you know what I mean? Yes. And that is a testament of me, of my passion and my love for the art.

And so I want to convey and make you feel something. Like, if you're not feeling anything, whether it's emotion of, you know, tears or excitement because I'm shablamming or whatever, you're going to have to have an experience with me. Like, that's the goal or else, what am I doing? I love that. Yeah. Also, you mentioned that you started officiating weddings and you were like, there's so much love. Why don't I have this? I feel the same.

I was very indifferent about getting married. I'd go back and forth. I'd be like, I want a wedding. I don't want a wedding. And then I officiated when I, like, my best friends. weddings and I was like, oh, well, I have to have one of these. And make it better. I have to make it better.

I got to show this bitch up. We had a great wedding. We did have a great wedding. Where was it? It was in Florida? No. Atlanta. Oh, Atlanta.

Yeah, we got married in Atlanta. Sort of a central spot for our Florida. Delta. A Delta hub. Everybody can get there. We're still allowed to talk about Delta on this podcast. I love, I'm a different time in TV. Hello.

We're taking us old bones now. I'm a Delta diamond deep until I die. Are you a 360? I'm a one million miler. I'm a one million miler. They gave me 360, but then they took it away. Oh, no. Mine didn't fly as much.

I didn't go anywhere this year. I sat at home, and they don't not give a damn about me next year. And it's fine, but like, out. I had enough that rolled over that I'm diamond until 20, 28. Yeah. They get me four years of diamond status, girl.

I was like, ooh. Yeah, so, you know, whether I fly or not, I'm cool. People must be so sick of me talking about my medallion status on Delta. Girl, it matters. All the time, I'm just like, I'm a Delta Diamond diva, don't you know?

It matters. Didn't you know? Don't you know? Did you know? Why? Do you see the tag on my carry-on? See, I don't do that. Oh, no. You don't do your tag.

And I don't know why. I just, look, look. I just, literally one on your laptop bag right now. I love it. You're like, I do. No, I just like to surprise them when they scan me in and they go,

oh, thank you for being a million mile, and I'm like, you're welcome. Oh, my God. When I first started getting status, I would be right behind him boarding a plane and they would thank him for his diamond status and then they would just let me board. And I was like, you specifically did not thank me just now.

And I finally started then saying, like, why didn't you thank me? You just thank my spouse, like, what is going on? Right, I mean, for real. That's so funny. You're welcome. Thank me. I was once flying Comfort Plus, and they didn't thank me for anything, and I was like,

with the riffraff back here, and they don't give a shit about me. They don't care about me. The commoner. Right. Wait, tell me about your wedding. Oh, it was an event. Well, we had dreams because what we wanted to do more than anything was to make sure that we gave our friends family an experience by us being entertainers and producers. We, of course, wanted to produce a product.

I just needed live music. Live. I couldn't. That I love. So we had to hire actual people. Our band, two of our guys that go on tour with us. a lot, we're our bass and drummer, and then Brian Nash from New York came and basically replaced me in my band for my wedding and knocked it out of the park. We had Marty Thomas was

there, one of us singers, Lily McLeod from the voice came and did the most amazing rendition of Alabaster Box. I've never heard that song. It's a little Jesus-y for what you usually How does it go? I'm not going to sing C-Dy Rhymon and see you on this podcast and get read by everybody. That's exactly how it goes. There's a box in his white. I call it alabaster.

Is that how it goes? That's exactly it. You nailed it. I knew there was a singer in your soul. I knew there was a singer in your soul. So speaking about singing, Latrice, did Christopher inspire you to sing? Did indeed.

I love that. I was not. Because of like, you know, this. very white and drag. Oh, yeah. Like, who you want to do? That don't connect all this femininity and then this big old bass voice. So I all never saw that happening because I was like, it's just weird.

It just was weird. But he was noodling on the piano one day. I was cooking in the kitchen. He was playing summertime in the natural soprano key. But I came in with a very, you know, Paul Robeson, old slave hymnal. Oh, very old. People get her. Oh, but time.

Hey, hear that. He's like, baby, you know, if you stop being silly and stupid, you can actually do this. And so he started, you know. So did you do, like, voice lessons? Well, I would hear him singing in the car not paying attention. When nobody was paying attention, he had a great ear. But then we sat down and I tried to get him to sing summertime and take it seriously. And it's the shyest I have ever seen this as person.

I think singing is very vulnerable. It is. Because it's one of the talents that you can have where people are pretty decisive. It's like you're good or you're bad. And it really is not like, you know. Yeah, when you're bad, you're pretty bad. You're bad.

There's not much room for the middle. Yeah, there's not a lot of room for the middle. And I never classified or thought or called myself a singer. I can sing. I can carry a tune. You know what I mean? But I wouldn't call myself a singer. But then I started watching, like, you know, I'm very into Gladys Night, and she would always say that she's not a riffer.

She doesn't do all the runs and all the, but what she does do is know how to deliver and tell a story and make you feel. And that's why people are connected to Gladys. She's not doing all those acrobatics. It's just straight from the soul. Just from the soul. And that's what I mean. That's what I can do, and I do well. And so that's probably why you were moved to tears.

Just booing. Well, we were going hard in the early days of that show, too. We were talking about you being in jail and losing your mother and the whole thing. We've lightened up on the lots instead. But the response is still often the same. And even before LaTrice was singing live, there was so much feedback that you would get about, like, literally healing properties in the timbre of your voice. people respond to just a natural tone of your voice. So I don't think they hear, not to be so deep about it,

but gender with your voice. They hear Latrice. They know your voice and they identify it. And so it doesn't matter how deep it is. In fact, I think it richens it. I just love his voice now. It's so great a little bit of a monster. I love that.

I once went to a Gladys Night concert. It was Gladys Night Stephanie Mills, Chalka Khan. You went to the Queen? I did. Got there late, Miss Gladys Knight. Gladys Night got on at 7 p.m. It started at 7 p.m. Baby, she had to go home to the house.

There was a bunch of black women being like, they knew we were going to be here all time. Why would they start it on time? Because this is why. Get there. Get there. I saw Gladys in concert, and it was just magical.

She brought a brother out. Like, that woman sounded like, like it was 1970, whatever. I'm so upset she started right on time. I couldn't believe it. It's magical. Her and Diana Ross were spectacular. Diana Ross is lovely.

I got to see her in Vegas. I haven't seen her live. I've only just seen, you know, live performances on YouTube and whatnot. Full fantasy. Charcom was so fun. Oh, I can imagine. Oh my God, she forgot her set. And she went, good night, everybody.

And she turned around, she went, one more. One more, everybody! And it made me laugh so hard. Because that was real. It was so real. And I love that. I love when you see, like, real moments on stage. Oh, it was wonderful.

Yeah, that's what we didn't say. We walked down the aisle to through the fire. Oh, we did. Don Talman sang the hell. I mean, like, put her entire foot into that song. And she had done it very well in rehearsal. But then our family had walked through. and done the aisle

and then when we opened the door and came down through the test of tight people lost their mind I would have lost my fucking mind it is such a good song and I was back there fully telling people when to enter

and like directing the like and producing my own wedding basically that is so funny and you're wrong get out there why would I pay somebody else just to be mad at them for being in my way

the whole time I love that at my wedding No, I'm going to be on autopilot. I'm just going to show up, say the words, and then drink. Well, you know that the other part of this story is that I was filming All-Stars 4 during the time. During the planning of the wedding. Yeah, like, we were getting married in September, and I was away at all of July in August.

Literally not allowed to talk. Yeah. They called me because she went straight from filming All-Stars 4 to filming the Hollislay Spectacular. and I shipped stuff for that before she even knew that she was going to be doing it. So that was about six weeks of our wedding planning.

Isn't that wild? That is wild, girl. I was going to Atlanta. That contract in perpetuity. You're doing it. You're doing it. She's doing it. That's wild.

Wild, girl. Because they pulled me out to text. Ask me. And you're like, oh, let me go get my stuff. It's here. I said, I don't have any Christmas things. I didn't bring anything for nowhere we already talked to Christopher

has already been shipped. What? I'm dying. Girl. You're here. So now your shit's here. So we're going to shoot that. We're going to shoot it real quick.

That's wild. So when you got back, was there any choices that Christopher made that you were like, the fuck? No, no. Because like before I left, we were very much on the same page. I did as much as I could

to be involved in the process. So he knew what we were going for. And he was, he's just knocked out of the park. And it was... But literally, my mother was the only person that really knew where he was. And I was having meetings with, like, cake makers and florists.

Our poor florist friend, like, he thought that I was just insane. Because I could... You're just planning this wedding alone. You're like, I swear, Latrice is marrying me. And they're like, sure, girl. We're back to people thinking I'm crazy. Our friend Nicole Phillips kept asking me, where's LaTrice? Where's LaTrice?

And I said, Nicole, why would I not tell you where LaTrice is? And she finally went, bitch, bitch, oh, bitch, oh, bitch. And it was just a series of bitches that all meant a different level of realization about where Latrice was. And she went, okay, I got it. I got it. And she just quit asking finally. And I was like, that is wild. Real quick, we got to take a break.

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frame sell out fast. So order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at the checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Boop, boop, boop, we're back. So is it wild when Latrice is shooting something where you can't say where Latrice is? Yes.

And then is it wild to just be away without a phone? It's horrible. It's horrible. You said you had more freedom in jail. I did. At least it let you out in the yard. They did. And there's a phone booth.

It's like, like, what? And there's a phone booth. And once you had some good behavior, you had the internet, everything. I'm just saying. That's why y'all just.

Yeah, yeah, girl. Like, the sacrifice was real. Like, people don't even know. Like, there's a lot of sacrifice to make this work on both sides. Like, he has to be alone a lot. He has to put up with me a lot. And all the shennyny's,

nanigans of the business, you know? And you know how it is. You know how it is. It's tough. It's hard out here for a pimp. It's hard out here for a pimp. It is. It is.

It's very hard. And I've dealt with that in my relationship with that nice man where I would just, like, be planning stuff and, like, hanging out when I was home and then, like, leave town. And he was like, hey, can you think of me all about when you're like. Planning stuff when you're home. I was like, oh, bud. Yeah. Yes. Oh, you should be coming first.

Oopsie. Yeah, it's an adjustment. It really is. It's an adjustment. I've been on my own for so long. But I think the most logistically challenging thing really becomes when, like, our gay friends just want to, like, go to the bar one night. And they don't fully realize that they're inviting with Trice Royale to a meet and greet. Yes.

And that, sorry to sound bitter, but changes my whole experience. I don't get to be just a whole normal gay at the club. I don't think that sounds better. And so I accept that we have a really lovely privileged existence, and that's one of the costs is like people know who we are, and they're very excited to see my spouse, which is very exciting most of the time, except when you're just trying to get drunk with your spouse at the bar one night. Do you have rules about going out?

Rules? I mean... Like, if somebody asks for a picture with me, I'll always do it. I'm happy to do it. I love that people love me, but I'll never make that nice man take it because I'm like, I don't want him to feel a certain type of way.

Well, that's been one of the actual, like, professional functions of my, sorry, my relationship with Latrice. If you've met Latrice at DragCon, you met me first. And I probably took the picture that you posted wherever you posted for like a lot of years.

That's DragCon, that's working. So, like, when you're out, is it the same? Are we switching in and out? I fall into it pretty naturally most of the time, but if somebody is around that can do it for me, I stay out of the way these days, too. I do try to...

Fair. I don't need as many selfies with the drag race girls as I used to. But for years, Willem's a great example. I finally had to go, hey, there are no pictures of us. Like, we're actual friends, and I forget to ask... Because the last thing I know my friend wants to do is have to take another damn picture after the meet and greet, so I don't ask it, but then eventually you do.

Have you ever thought about going to straight bars? I used to work at one, but we don't hang out much there anymore. I mean, just a night, like a queer-friendly straight bar. Honestly, we're so content by our pool with our weed. Like, if I can be naked with a blunt in my hand, that's where I'm going to be. But honestly, these days, Nicole. The straights know you, too. But no, like, isn't that with the gay bars are now?

Speak on it. I'm just saying. No, yeah, it's a lot of straight ladies and men who are like, oh, the straight ladies are here. It's kind of wild. It's very wild. So it's like, stay away. Yeah, we kind of getting pushed out of our own spaces here and there.

But like, I'm cool because I don't need to go to the club. I mean, you work in the club. You know, yeah. And I, mm. We have that experience. I'm just saying that like 2 a.m. It's wild for me. When the club is closing and I'm the last bitch out, I have a problem with that.

So that's topical and just happened. Oh, and we're feeling some type of way. We're feeling some type of way. Feeling some type of way about it. That is ridiculous. I should have been, have been gone. But, yeah, we're here. No, I get that when you're just like, all right.

So who works here? Nobody. How do I leave? Nobody's working. Nobody's working. money and how do I leave? Oh, this reminds me. This is the moment.

Sometimes though, you still have to go pop the corn to feed the children as you said. But I want you to, well, we want you to know that we've been watching, and you and Mono on your Why Won't You Scare Me episode. Correct. Had a discussion

about a certain catchphrase. Pop the corn. the children. How the ever. Miss Fame is not the originator of that phrase, and that's not how the phrase goes. Wait. No, Ms. Fame didn't say it. Who said it? Correct. It's a Jasmine Master's

quote, and you're so close, but it's actually... Pop the corn so the kids can eat. Is this a you quote? That's a Jasmine Master's quote. Oh, it's a Jazz and Master's. So this is our official Justice for Jasmine. Pop the corn. Where's my camera?

justice for Jasmine wherever I'm looking Justice for Jasmine I fucked up I'm sorry Jasmine Masters No no no no I am so obsessed with this quote Because she told this story on Hey Queen Years ago and I just think it's the funniest thing And one day I was stoned out of my gourd And I had this visual idea

For a merch line of pop the corn so the kids can eat And I would not leave Manila Luzon alone Until she drew it for me So Nicole This is the first public reason of Manila Luzon's interpretation of pop the corn so the kids can eat

and I was cleaning my office right after you said this and found it and I brought it from Florida to show to you now these faceless children so excited to eat corns that have turned into popcorn

that is very fucking funny in a pleaser with a heel that's a little fucked up oh wait I think that's a six inch pleaser because the front isn't that big. That's very funny. I look for the audio listeners. Could you describe the image?

Okay, so it's a pleaser. It's a pleaser sandal, but it doesn't have the ankle strap. The heel is a little fucked up because I feel like the bitch is a little big, so it's a little... She's been walking down and fuck that. And then she's got some corns.

And the corns are turning into popcorn and then there's like Charlie Brown people. And they're so happy. They're so happy. I'm dying. This is so funny to me. This is why we're imaginary best friend. I'm dying.

I want a copy. I won't make you a copy. Do we have a photo copier here? Do they still make Xerox machine? I think so. So Manila Luzon's artwork. Credit to all people deserve. Yes, pop the corn so the kids can eat.

So the kids can eat. Season 7, literally, your seasons, I like them. Some of my favorite episodes, That's the romper room shenanigans. That killed me. But season seven is one of my favorite seasons. They had some good things happen out of that season. It's my favorite because every challenge is an acting challenge

and none of them are actors. They were horrible. And it was funny that they watched it happen and they didn't go, we should make adjustments. No, we're going to keep going with this. So you loved it for all the wrong ones. I sure did. And I love that.

Shakespeare is just a beautiful. Beacon of Perfection to me. Damn. Damn, Nicole. It's a beacon of perfection. I love it so much. Jazz and Master's going, It's a cocoon.

It's a cocoon. It's a cocoon. That is that. A butterfly homes. It's a cocoon. It's a cocoon. It's a cocoon. I sometimes will just play it on a loop.

It makes me laugh so hard. We've been, too, cocoon, cocoon. Cocoon. It's a cocoon. Last time I asked her, I don't think she ever saw the movie cocoon, which I think is a problem. Like, I think I still really. I really need the maker sit down and watch cocoon.

I don't think I've seen cocoon. Nicole. Oh, God, cocoon. All the old people, Wilford Brimley and... I don't know, Wilford Brimley. You don't remember with the diabetes? Diabetes. He did cream of wheat or Quaker Oats or something and...

Well, yeah. It was the Batteries Not Included era of movies and... How old are you? 45... Mm. Oh! Not... Not the...

Because I'm younger. Oh. Oh. I don't know certain things because I'm a baby. Oh, I forgot what will be then. I don't know, cocoon. I just showed my age, apparently, is what I learned today. I'm kidding.

I'm 78. I'm 99. I always just say older. Why not? I like telling, I was working on this Google thing, and the PAs were 28, 29, and they're like, how old are you? And I was like, 62, and they were like, oh, you look so good. And I was like, and then I don't think I ever told them.

that's the way to do living their lives and I'm 62 or 69 or whatever the fuck I said. What is it you always say? What I always say? Black don't crack unless you smoke it. That's it.

You know what? That is the truth. It is the truth. Girl, because when it do fall off, that is so funny. Black don't crack unless you smoke it. They got to make that into like a new drug commercial. I mean.

Because it is true. It's very true. Let's take another. break. Well, this podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. If you have a passion project, a business, or you just want to show off your cute face to the world, you need a website. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or you're scaling up your empire, Squarespace gives you everything you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings, and get paid all in one place.

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operate by Shev. And we're back. So your show, how did you come up with it? And why a Christmas show? Oh, well. Well, it originated... It originated we had been doing

her autobiographical cabaret show in New York, and they asked us back to come to the Lari Beachman Theater. They wanted us for Christmas, and it didn't make sense to us to do the same show that we had just died. And so I think that's when it started. And actually Kennedy Davenport was part of the original cast and she had this

amazing old church lady character that she did. We do a every year we update it, but we do a version of the 12 gays of Christmas. And now Jessica Vosk, this amazing Broadway singer, has done a version. I think it's Jessica that did it. But we have our own take. And that's really the like meat and bones of the show. And it's ridiculous. Ridiculous. It's the stupidest thing we've ever done on stage. age and we have a great time. We can tell.

I love silly. We can tell. I do. The dumber, the better. Also, I love Kennedy Davenport. I mean, yeah. Almost in spite of herself, but we love her. One of my favorite queens.

She just messaged me today. She calls me Uncle Junebug, and she was trying to message me. Of course she doesn't. I made some good Kool-Aid one day and I got renamed. And that's what happened. And she messaged me and she had started typing Uncle into Facebook and then realized that wasn't going to work. And then started typing Junebug and then realized, no, his real name, idiot. And finally remembered that I'm Christopher and got a hold of me.

Uncle Junebug. That's so funny. Yeah. Her lip sync against Katia, I think, gets overlooked as one of the all-time best lip-sinks. It does. I think they made a rule that you can't leap off the stage anymore after she did. it's kind of amazing how many huge stars

came out of that season despite how horrible it was not received well no it wasn't everyone hated it and I was like give me more I loved it

it was one of my favorites so when you were on television the first time did you think that you were going to get the response that you got like did you think you would be so beloved

no I had no clue like I literally went in and so green And I was really nervous during the audition process that I wasn't going to get on the show because of my background. But as I started talking more and more with the producers and letting them know why it was important that I did the show, they leaned into it and encouraged me to lean into that message.

And so I don't know if they created the apocalyptic, post-apacolocallocic. But, oh, for Lashon, Miss Lashon. Lashon, Lashon be on, apaka, apacalaka, apalaka. But that challenge, but when Ruth asked me when was my end-of-the-world moment, that I knew that was the question. And so I just leaned in and said, hey. And at first, did you have qualms about sharing that you had been in jail? I went back and forth, but I was like, I want to get it out.

before anybody else tried to dig it up and be like, you know this is a convict, right? You're like, no, but it's so like you take the power away from all those people and then you make it your power and become empowering, you know? And so that's how that went down. I like that you were like, well, I'll just tell you, like before you go and find out.

Because I feel like owning a mistake is better than, like, not acknowledging it. Well, that's what got me into the problem in the first place, not owning the mistake and not taking care of my responsibilities. You know what I mean? Because it was you missed a court date. I didn't go and report for probation. And so, like, that was, yeah, I learned from that.

Yeah. And so, yeah, we don't, we don't run from it anymore. We run headfirst into it and own up, own your shit, and move on, learn from it, grow from it, and move on. I also just think, if you, You don't own it and people do find out about it. I don't know why people just can't go, I made a mistake and I'm sorry. Like, I feel like people, you did it.

You did. Just say, yeah, I did it. And I'm sorry. I said X, Y, and Z. I don't know. But accountability, like, no one, they don't want to, people don't want to do that. I mean, like, it means that you have to admit some faults and some things and re-evaluate who you are and what kind of person does what you just did and all those things.

So, you know, people don't want to take accountability because it makes you have to look inward and a lot of people don't want to hold that mirror up to themselves. But that's okay, I got one for you. I got one in my pocket. I have to do that in my relationship sometimes. Sometimes I'll say something, and I love joking around, but sometimes I'll phrase something

a little rude and he'll be like, hey. And then I have to go, ooh. Yeah. And I just have to think and go, okay. You weren't offended, but you're the one who said it. He's telling you he didn't like it. So the nicest thing you can say is, I'm sorry. Do you want to know why I said it?

You don't have, like, you could say, no. You could go, I don't really want to hear your explanation. I just, I like the sorry. So that's what I've learned how to do. And it's been fucking hard. It's hard. It is hard. But he, we are definitely mirrors for each other and very much let each other know how we're coming across.

or be transparent in the moment when we know that we're not our best to say, I'm feeling this type of way, it has nothing to do with you. Get that out the way. That is, I found that to be really key. I don't know for everybody, but for me, that definitely, like, I can accept that you're in a bad mood. But if I think we're in a fight and you're in a bad mood, then I'm doubled, like, all of the things.

And it's harder for me to be supportive if I think it's about me. If I'm the issue To do that We always think it's about us Because why else are you mad Like I'm the closest proximity to you So well and especially on the road Like we share a hotel room

And literally the proximity becomes a thing We're yeah So you got to figure out your feelings fast And I've learned that if I'm in a bad mood I have to say it's not about you Because he'll just assume And then he was in a bad mood like It was like a month or two ago

And I was like, he hates me He's gonna break up with me Because he's, he hate And then he was like, hey, are you what? And I was like nothing is just We would never catastrophize our personalities Don't imagine things at all We don't make up any stories

We have no imagination Completely dull up here Making up a story Only one personality up here Yeah, no, I can make them up with the best And how do you deal with it? I don't know if I do or not But it's a case-by-case day-by-day basis, you know, with a lot of help from my friends, really, though.

Like, I've had, I, well, we're both sensitive in our way. And I think that word gets such a bad rap. It means, I think to a lot of people, when you say you're sensitive, it just means you get your feelings hurt easily. But actually, I'm being sensitive to you and your needs by being sensitive as well. I'm being sensitive to you and your needs. And I try to express that sensitivity that I want to my personal. partner. Like, I try to be sensitive to what he might be going through. And in a lot of cases, I'm maybe the only person that actually knows what he's going through that day. And so that's,

you know, I try to be that guy. And then when he's there for me, he's there for me too. And but like you said, the travel and the projects do make us have to be very independent emotionally. What's the most romantic thing you guys have done together or for each other? Oh. Well, I think one of the thing I did early on

that seemed pretty romantic. There's this YouTube video you can still find of Latrice on her birthday backstage at Drunk at Bill's Philly Station in Fort Lauderdale and they said,

what do you want for your birthday, Latrice? And she said, I want some balloons and some drinks and some cake. And so, when I traveled to Seattle, it's true, simple. I traveled out of town to meet her at a gig in Seattle, and it wasn't her birthday, but she was coming in from Ireland for an out-of-the-country, one of your first international gigs.

And I had gone to the store in advance, and I got some rainbow and heart balloons and a bottle of Sophia Champagne. Budget-friendly. But it was Ms. Sophia, so it felt appropriate. And I don't know if they're still in business, but I think they are called Cupcake Royale, which just seemed too coincidental to not get cake from Cupcake Royale. And that was all waiting for him at the hotel when he arrived along with me. And that was, I didn't realize then how romantic it was, but it just seemed like a fun thing to do. It's cute and thoughtful. Right.

You heard it and you're like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to make that happen. Easy, peasy. And, yeah, that's what made me. Cake balloons and drink. Is that all it take? I mean, it did for me because we changed it. Our notifications from, it's complicated to we were dating.

And so that happened that weekend. But then you hiring a professional chef for our anniversary was pretty. I did do that. I did order. I did hire a private chef to come in for our anniversary one year. a couple years ago, as a matter of fact. Would they make? Baby. That's how fat I am.

I was like, that's romantic, but what they make? What you eat? What you all get into it? So it was like, I don't know, four or five courses, but we started off with a salad. It was a delicious salad. I don't know. I think it was like a watermelon orugal feta moment.

Yeah. Like an osmomic vinaigrette. It's a homemade, all homemade dressing. Get you started. And then maybe it was like a tomato basil. No. It was butternut squash soup. Okay, that's not right.

With the most amazing grilled cheese sandwich to accompany it. Okay. So we had that for the second course, and then they brought out, she brought out our surfing turf. So we had a steak with these huge giant king prongs, garlic mashed potatoes, and I don't know what was it, broccoli, broccoli. Yeah, okay. This is sounding right. And then for dessert. You're pretty the menu so far?

Yeah. Okay. And then for dessert. She made us this double fudge brownie with vanilla bean ice cream and caramel drizzle. That's lovely. Girl, you know. Oh, that's a good meal. It's a good meal.

And cheaper than it would have been in the restaurant. And that's wild. Wild. So I tipped her very well because I was like, baby, this would have cost me every bit of $700. And she knocked it out. and cleaned up. And cleaned up. She left my house.

That's lovely. Cleaner than when she came. Hired again. That's lovely. We have a friend who says that all he expects of customer services, tell me it's your pleasure and shut the fuck up. I agree. I agree. Tell me it's your pleasure.

And she did. There was no complaint. She was so pleasant. I love that. Do you guys have any advice for single people out in the world? It's hard out there. Do you have advice? It's hard.

Because what I'm hearing is like it has like, from the people who are like hopeless romantics, they are having the hardest time because people just want to be hoars. And it's okay. But like, and especially because like we're getting a lot of like discussion about the fact that we're interracial, and that's a thing, too. And so, I say... Not to interrupt you, but how do you deal with that?

How do you deal with people? Because I feel like on Twitter, people really like to... It was a whole discussion. Like, talk about... I can't even really participate in. ...iniracial relationships. I guess, yeah, you really can. I mean, you're the first...

Thank you for actually asking that question and providing a space for me to say that. But there's an entire conversation about my marriage that I feel like I can't participate in. Yeah. Yeah, that is fucked up. Yeah, it is. And this is what I have to say,

them people. Mind your business. Number one, I am in love with someone who is in love with me. I went with love. And if there was a black person who showed me the kind of love that this man sat here and showed me, then I would be all about it. But ain't nobody stepped to the plate.

So if you step to the plate, then I'm going to entertain that. I'm not going to miss out on my blessing because he's white. That sounds stupid. You sound ridiculously stupid, and that's why you're single and miserable. Get yourself some self-love and find you somebody who's going to love your raggedy, broke-down ass. I agree. I'm so over it.

Like, it makes me angry that people have so many opinions about someone else's love. And, like, because you don't have that. You could never find that because you're stuck on some kind of ideological. You know the word I'm trying to say. Ideology. There we go. Yeah, we got it together. Yeah, 25 cent word.

That you should date in your own race. And it's just ridiculous. So that aside, just go where love is and be happy and things. And that's what I chose to do. And yeah, here we are 13 years later. And I ain't going nowhere. He ain't going nowhere. Well, we both also came to.

the table pretty fully developed. Like, I've been through a lot of things that aren't as public as what he went through. I've not been on a reality television show where I spilled my guts yet. You know what I mean? But I had been through my things, and we were able to deal with each other's things. And, but if you can't deal with your own thing, then you're not going to be able to deal with somebody else. So I don't mean to just rephrase RuPaul and sound like I made something up. But, like, really, like, I still have to be in charge of me.

he still has to be in charge of him. And then when we meet in the medal, it's beautiful and lovely, but... Well, one of the things that I said when we were getting serious, I was just like, don't let our crazies intermingle. Like, we don't want no entanglement

with your crazy and my crazy. Because, baby, that's going to be disastrous. That's going to be a baby. That's going to be a whole lot of crazy. And my brother told him, you know, mental endless runs in our family. That's wild the sabotage. But it is a lot.

You know, you know, just so you know. And same here. The DNA stops here. We're not passing this on. The cycle stops here. Did you want to say something about being an interracial relationship? Well, I mean, I guess I said... I don't want to, like, put you on the spot.

No, I don't feel on the spot, but I do feel like it's a nice start to the conversation just that I'd like to have the conversation. Like if there's going to be one about me, I'd like to be able to speak for myself and feel welcome in that conversation. I mean, um, you know, I, I really love this guy and we're not always perfect. We go through things just like everybody else does. But at the end of the day, um, you know, I, I do feel like I've been there to support this black man when no one else was. So I don't, um, so I don't. So I don't, really know what else I can give the world in form of activism and social consciousness than that. So, you know, I'm doing my best and I hope it works, is all I can say, really.

It's the, it's the, like, allegation or theory that we're successful because we have proximity to whiteness. And that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard because, number one, I was on the show before I met. him. So that has nothing to do with my success. He has. Now, I will not say that he did not help elevate and enhance my career. But the same is true. There are

thousands and thousands of people that you would have never heard of me if I had not been playing piano for the literary story out. We wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation. So I'm acutely aware that a lot of people that know who I am or whatever reputation I may have is you know, piggybacking off of

her a lot. So like I tried to treat that with as much grace and respect as I can And I'm Mostly just grateful for People like yourselves who show me friendship and invite me to the cookout Because I have a great time Do you know what I mean? I don't bring the potato salad

He's certified he knows what we do I just bring the cups in the plate And I don't DJ I don't line step I know, you know, but, you know, my in-laws, the women in the family sort of sat down with me at one point. They didn't know exactly how to say, so how'd you get here? But they basically were like, so how did you get here? And I just felt like I understood the level of otherness that Tim had.

And I don't know why, but he agreed with me. So here we are 13 years later. I think what you said was very eloquent. I think it's nice that you're like, I acknowledge these things, but also in our love, race kind of has nothing to do with it. At all. But I do acknowledge that there are racial implications and whatever, but like I just love this person. This person loves me. We work well together.

And that's that. That's that. Yeah. Can we all just get along? Can we all just get along? Please. It would be great. I just think, yeah.

I think it's wild to have any sort of, like, discussion about somebody's relationship. It's crazy to me. Without them getting to say something. I don't know. It's just weird. Why are you saying something? I don't even know why it's never a business. Like, what is that?

I don't know. Especially when you're just lining up what I see to just be coincidences. Like, none of our relationships from within the drag race franchise have anything to do with each other. Yeah. Like, I don't even know some of the people that were involved. and the rest of the discussion, like, you know. Yeah, that's also a fuck thing. It's like all of them get grouped to together.

But somehow I've been lumped into this pattern that I was not aware of at all. Well. Say lavi. Say, what does that mean? Say, lovey. That's life. Look at me, no one's shit.

You are so multilingual. Thank you. Well, we have reached the end. I do ask, oh my guess this, would you date me? Oh, my guess this? Oh, 100%. You know that you're my home class. Like, I thought that we were already.

I thought we were a throttel. I thought this was established. Right. You want to promote the dates of why I gotta be Christmas. Oh, no. Why I gotta be white Christmas? Yeah, that one. Why I got to be white Christmas.

That one. Yeah, we've got two more dates left here, three more dates left here in California. Well, by the time this airs, we're going to have one more date left. Yeah, so, but it's sold out. It sold out. Which is wonderful. Sorry about it. Can't go.

But we're going back to Knoxville, Tennessee to see my people. I'm really excited to see them at the Vizu Theater on December 18th. And then we're going to make our way up to the cold north of Provincetown for a weekend of shows there. And then New Year's Eve, fantasy ball there as well. That's fun. And then the dates in Provincetown are December 26 through the 28th. Correct. And if you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me, you could like it, you could rate it, subscribe.

You can give me five stars on Apple Podcasts. Write me something nice hitting on me to Why Won't You Date Me Podcasts at gmail.com and Mars will read it and then she'll print it out for me and then I'll read it. And listen, y'all have been doing a very good job at keeping it short.

Oh. Because that was a request I have. Oh. Okay. This person writes, Nicole, I want to use you as my stocking this year. I want to nail you on my mantle. Ooh, I'm Jesus.

Line up a row of men with the most spectacular dicks. and fill you up with them stretching you open wide. I will cram so many packages inside you that you'll be bursting. I want to leave you overflowing and dripping onto the fireplace. Happy holidays from David. Sorry, I'm gay. Hope you liked it.

Damn, David was like, I can't even fathom what to do with a woman. I'll nail her to the mantle and fill her up with presents. It sounds like it came out one of those British tabloids about it, like, These groups that they're... Oh my God. So call me. Bye! That was a HeadGum podcast.

Hi, I'm Nicole Byer. Hi, I'm Sashir Zameda. And this is the podcast, Best Friends. And we're here at HeadGum. So this is just a podcast where we just talk. Yeah. We're best friends. Yeah.

We talk. And then we have a segment where we answer questions and queries. So the audience members can ask questions about friendships and we can answer them to the best of our abilities. Yes. We are professional friends. We are professional friends. Subscribe to best friends

on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Pocketcast or wherever you get your podcast and watch videos on YouTube. New episodes drop every Wednesday. That's the middle of a work week. I was deeply unhelpful to you during that whole thing. You are. I'm really sorry.

support i was so okay i was trying to be supportive yeah but i was like i don't know reading seems pretty hard right now it's a lot i think you did good thank you so much you're welcome