Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Deputy Gangs in the LA County Sheriff's Department (w/ Cerise Castle)

Episode Date: April 6, 2021

In this bonus episode, Nicole talks to reporter Cerise Castle about her multi-part series, A TRADITION OF VIOLENCE, uncovering the history of deputy gangs in the LA County Sheriff's Department. Please note that this episode contains descriptions of police brutality and sexual assault that some people may find disturbing. Read Cerise's ongoing investigation here: knc.la/tradition

Hi, hi, hi, hi, hi! Okay, so this is a bonus episode of Why Won't You Date Me? It's not a regular one. Today I'm talking to Cerise Castle, a reporter writing an investigation on the L.A. County Sheriff's Department. This is something that has been critically underreported. I think it's important that we bring it to light. Me personally, I feel like it's important to use your platform for shit that matters and important things. So before we jump in, just a little note on the content.

We're going to be talking about some heavy stuff in this episode. So like police brutality, sexual assault, death. So if you're looking for like a real teeheehee, this ain't it. This is not the episode. So, you know, please exercise some self-care. Check in with yourself before proceeding. So listener discretion is advised why won't you date me why won't you date me why won't you date me please tell me why Baby, welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me? A podcast where me, Nicole Byer, tries to figure out how I'm still single

Even though you could take me on a hike and push me right off the cliff I will find my way back home and say, excuse me, I still love you My guest today is an LA-based journalist specializing in civil rights, crime, and human interest stories. She has bylines in the L.A. Times, The Daily Beast, and Los Angeles Magazine, and she hosted segments for the Emmy Award-winning news program Vice News Tonight. It's Cerise Castle! Hey, girl. Wait, did I say it right?

You did. I did? Okay, thank God. I do this really interesting thing where I think I might be slightly dyslexic because I will put letters that don't exist in words, and then I just, like, can't say them right. So I'm glad I did this. Ooh, baby, we're moving along. Thank you so much for doing this. Yeah yeah thanks so much for having me on I'm really excited to be here thank you okay so

I wanted to talk to you about you have a piece coming out which is with knock la with knock la okay and it is about the gang activity and corruption within the los angeles sheriff's department don't you like how we're just like getting right to the meat of it uh but i don't think a lot of people know how corrupt the police department sheriff's department is not just in la but like everywhere um do you want to talk a little bit about that yeah i'd love to um it's something that i've spent the last six months of my life learning everything about um some kind of a armchair expert essentially there have been gangs in the los angeles county sheriff's department since the mid-1970s the gangs have grown and spread they're now present at i want to say predominantly the south and east side locations of the sheriff's department so that's south los

angeles east los angeles where there are lots of black and brown people, of course. And they've basically been able to do whatever they want without any punishment, really. They've killed 19 men of color. Four of them were experiencing a mental health crisis at the time that they were killed by sheriff's deputies. The deputies have beaten hundreds of people based on my research. And they're up to a lot of really bad stuff and they've been able to do this with the knowledge of the County Board of Supervisors,

the knowledge of the California State Senate and the knowledge of the US Civil Rights Commission. Wait a minute. So like a Civil Rights Commission in my, is like, okay, civil rights. That means we want everyone to have equal rights and be treated equally, and, like, it's nice and peaceful. So, like, da fuck? That's, like, the only question I have.

Like, da fuck? Yeah, I mean, I don't really have an answer for you as to why this has been able to happen for so long and at the number of frequency that it's been occurring. But in any case, yeah, I don't really have an explanation for why this has been able to happen as long as it's been able to, as frequently as it's been able to. As I said before, government... And she's got the dog. It's okay. We're all at home. There's dogs, there's children, there's lots of things in the background.

I get it. I'm sorry. Don't be sorry. I recently learned that I think one of my dogs is a Spanish-speaking dog because when you speak to him in Spanish, he listens more. Really? Yeah, he was found on the street.

So I genuinely think that English is not his first language. It's his second language. And in seven years, he has learned some of the stuff in English. But he'll just come to you faster if you go benaki charlie so that's a fun thing i've learned where did you find him uh it's a long roundabout story but a friend of a friend of a friend like very far removed from me and my roommate john uh just posted on facebook seven years ago i guess at this point does anyone want to take this dog we found on the street uh someone was like throwing shit at him and we

picked him up on the side of the highway and john was like we'll take him and i said we will and then this little ragamuffin of a dog he had this like awful open sore down his neck and he did not want to come in he like spread his little legs out to like stop from being pulled inside but then once inside you know we petted him and we were like hello you're ours now and then we never gave him back to anybody so actually i may have stolen a dog i love that. But we did take him to the vet. He's not chipped.

So. So he's yours. I don't think he is stolen, stolen. Yeah. And he hasn't tried to leave. He's not like if you open the door, he won't run out. My other dog will. He'll be like, excuse me.

I have business out there. People want to pet me. It's like nobody wants to pet you, Clyde. Get back inside. OK. I'm sorry. I forgot what your question was. uh people want to pet me it's like nobody wants to pet you Clyde get back inside uh okay so I'm sorry I forgot what your question was it was basically like why just right yeah like how a civil like just how this how has this been going on for so long and how so many people know about that do you know what I mean it's like so many people know about it so Do you know what I mean? It's like so many people know about it. So I don't understand why nothing's being done about it. But I guess that's why you wrote the piece.

Yeah, I mean, it was a big motivating factor. I don't really have an answer as far as, you know, why nothing has been done. One thing that really shocked me in researching this piece was just finding out how many people have known about it for, you know, going on 30 years like Mark Ridley Thomas, for example. He was present at a raid that the Los Angeles Police Department actually conducted in the late 80s in a bunch of houses. And it was a terrible raid. People's houses were completely destroyed. The Red Cross was actually called in to help people rebuild their lives after the police had destroyed everything. And he heard this testimony and basically defended the police department. And, you know, he went on to sit on the county board of supervisors and heard about gang violence that was being perpetrated by the sheriff's department. violence that was being perpetrated by the sheriff's department and you know this was in the 90s so this stuff has been going on like quite literally for you know my whole life and people

know but i don't i don't really know why i my research which would suggest that the culture of gangs in the sheriff's department is so deeply entrenched and stretches all the way up to the highest ranks. And that, you know, the gangs have such a grip on the department that really you can't really work in the department if you're not subscribing to the gang's outlook on how law enforcement should be conducted. So, you know, filing false police reports, being violent, arresting people and coming up with charges later, that sort of thing. Yeah, I watched a documentary. It was very like left skewed, but I like did a little the slightest bit of research after I watch it. It's on Netflix. I cannot remember the name of it, but it was about like how crack exploded in the eighties. And there was like cops on record saying, yeah, we would do raids in these neighborhoods. We would take their crack. We would take their money and then we would sell

their crack. And it was just like, whoa, this is nuts. Like to the point where these people are getting arrested for it and on trial for it and speaking on camera for it means that that it's not like a isolated incident. It doesn't mean that it's like a small thing. It means it got so big, it just got out of control. And I think people don't realize that like when you finally hear about something real insidious in like the government or law enforcement, it's because it got so big and out of control and it's been going on for years and years and years. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, these people are so comfortable with the way that they do their jobs and the way they conduct themselves that, you know, some of them have even written

books about it. Like just right here, I have this book just sitting on my table. This was written by a sergeant who oversaw a beating death of a man in custody. His name was John Horton. John Horton was 22 years old, and he had been incarcerated for failing to show up at a mandatory drug counseling appointment ordered by the court, ended up in Men's Central Jail. He spent his 22nd birthday there. Ten days later, his beaten body was found inside of a cell. And Cliff Yates, the author of this book, you know, he was the sergeant on duty. He was the sergeant on duty. And he admits in this book and in court testimony that he let the people that he was supervising who were supposed to be looking out for this man, he says very openly that he let them

leave the facility, go get food, go to the gym while they're supposed to be working. He openly admits that he doesn't admit to the fact that john died by beating the coroner um you know confirmed that john had significant damage to his body including a busted liver um a busted pancreas a busted spleen um scars on his forehead the sheriff's department refuses to say that John was beaten to death, although you can see the evidence. The name of the book that this is all it it's called Deputy. It's written by a man named Cliff Yates. It's available on Amazon. So I say all that to say that, you know, these people are very comfortable with the way they do things. And, you know,

they're it's been going on, like I said, since the 70s. So I'm pretty confident and I think they're pretty confident that nothing is going to change. It's also interesting when you get pulled over. I don't know if you go through this.

I don't know if I just go through it because I'm a black woman, but I get very, very, very nervous because I'm like, what the fuck is going to happen it's my word against this person this person has a gun this person has a fucking uh billy club or whatever the fuck they're called and then they don't come over in a friendly manner and they're already aggressive you know it's like like I just i don't know like i don't understand why police officers don't have training in how to speak to people like you know yeah i mean they're

not trained to speak to people really i mean from what i've seen of law enforcement and what i understand it's a very us versus them culture, right? They look at the people that they're supposed to protect as criminals. The Sheriff's Department, for example, when you're, when you join the Sheriff's Department as a new deputy, you start out in the jails, you're required to work in the jails. And the jails are a really horrible place. I mean, Los Angeles Men's Central Jail has been deemed as, you know, uninhabitable, basically. The Board of Supervisors has made plans to close it because that building is just so decrepit. And for years, there have been accounts of abuse at the hands of deputies. There was a whole commission set up by the board of supervisors to look into the

rampant beatings um that were going on at the hands of law enforcement inside the jails so when you're having people start the very beginning of their career in an environment like that that gets ingrained into your head and you're going to go out on the streets and that's how you're going to approach this community that you're supposed to be a part of. Many of the deputies that started out in men's central jail, I found at least three that went on to kill people in the communities that they were working. That's fucked up. It's very fucked up. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't think officers are trained to deescalate situations and then finding out that they have to start in jails almost means that like they're put in a place where it's like, these people are criminals. They've already been incarcerated. They're violent. So then it's like,

well, I have to go to work on the defense as opposed to like, how can I enrich these people's lives? And like, just keep, I don't know. It's also like i don't understand why we as a society has just or not even a society just like in america has decided that like when you're incarcerated you don't you're not allowed the basic just like liberties of life do you know what i mean it's like we put you in these shitty

fucking places we make you in like kind of, indentured servants, where you have to work for pennies. And then you're overcrowded. It's not clean. The food is shitty. And then we release you at some point to be like, go back in the world and do good. And it's like, well, no, you're really just kind of setting people up for failure.

100%. You know, a couple of cases that I've looked at really encapsulate that. One man was arrested for being drunk in public. This happened in 2006. You know, I mean, whomstabunksos hasn't gone out to West Hollywood and gotten lit on a Saturday night, right? He was arrested and he was taken to Men's Central Jail and he was raped by a deputy. And I mean, there's really, I don't really have any words for that. Like, just the fact that the deputy was able to,

A, do that to him, B, when the man told someone he reached out to another deputy and asked for help he said what happened to him that deputy immediately covered up and said you know nothing happened to you you're going to be fine and you know that man was eventually released there were no charges against him and that was his experience i like you said i think that this country has an attitude that when people go to jail like they're criminals they need to be punished but you know that isn't the case for a lot of people a lot of people that end up in the los angeles county jail are you know

non-violent offenders and i i really don't like making that distinction because i just because someone has done something that might be, you know, violent. I don't think that means that they deserve to be beaten or raped or even, God forbid, killed at the hands of people that are supposed to be there to protect them and keep them safe. Yeah, I mean, yes, it does, because I think a lot of people forget that, like. think a lot of people forget that like people who maybe are like live below the poverty line you know like that doesn't it doesn't help you be an upstanding member of society not that i'm saying that everybody below the poverty line is a criminal i'm just saying if you look at things it's a cycle it's a circle where it's just like well how do i do I make money? Oh, okay. Well, I don't get taxed if I sell drugs or whatever. And then it's like, that's not super violent if you're just like, you know,

dealing weed or whatever. And then it's just so wild to me that like, you know, white women, not to make it about race, but some, a lot of the times it is about race and it's like, white women can start like weed yoga when weed was finally, you know, decriminalized in California. But then it's just like the black and brown people who were selling it, who were the original entrepreneurs of this, they're still in jail for it. And it's like, wait, the fuck up? Like, why? Why is that allowed? Like, why?

And then also this documentary I watched was like, jail time is longer for crack than it is cocaine. And crack is cocaine. It's just white people like to do cocaine because it's more expensive or whatever. Black people were entrepreneurial and found a way to make cocaine stretch and get even higher on a lot less. So, of course, we would have to criminalize that. We'll be right back after these messages. So are you for abolishing and defunding the police? Obviously, yes.

Personally speaking, yeah. I mean, after looking into this, I really think that the sheriff's department, at the very minimum, needs to go have a very deep internal investigation. I think that all of these to have access to information about what sheriff's deputies have been involved in shootings, have been involved in beatings, have had a court case against them where it's been alleged that they have violated someone's civil rights. I don't think that those officers should be on the street. No, I think that there needs to be some kind of practice in place where there are reviews happening, where there are psychological exams happening. Yeah, at the very minimum. Yeah. And I think when people hear abolish or defend the police, they're like, but what will we do without police officers? And I'm like, what do we do with police officers? They don't't solve any crimes that's why we have true crime podcasts i mean you're absolutely right like i watched another documentary

where it was um about sex workers being murdered and they were being picked up at truck stops and truckers were taking them over state lines because they knew that police departments will not follow up past their jurisdiction or whatever and i was like wait a minute what the fuck so they've just truly been like no we're not gonna do that and it's like but aren't you supposed to be helping people and then i just think it's so weird the amount of um i don't even know what to call it but it's like gaslighting that we need police officers we're like as a little kid you're like if you're in trouble go get the police they'll help you get a cat out of a tree with your granny neighbor and you're like oh yes the police are good. And then you're like, wait, no, I've literally never seen a police officer in a tree getting a cat. Like, what an insane notion. Yeah, it's really wild. Like, I'm thinking back to my last interaction with a police officer. I was walking my dog

in Griffith Park and two two park rangers drove by me and just jumped out of their car before it even came to a complete stop and started yelling at me yeah get that dog get that dog on a leash get that dog on a leash now i have a 300 ticket it's it's pretty wild yeah i i don't know i don't know why they do that why they why they act like that i don't know i feel like a lot of time. Also, there's something to be said about like patrolling, looking for something, looking for somebody to get where it's like, I don't, I don't know. I just don't find it necessary. I was driving the other day and I watched a Range Rover just like fly through a red light and there was a cop on a motorcycle behind him and he didn't do anything. And I was like why are you here what are you doing like if not doing that like what the

fuck are you doing I've been rather lucky I've had pretty decent interactions with police officers but I won't say that they made me feel comfortable or like they've made me feel like at ease when it's just like speeding, I shouldn't be shaking. Do you know what I mean? It's like, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, they're not very good at making you feel comfortable. And I think, you know, a lot of that goes back to the training that they're taught to look at people as, as criminals. And,

you know, it's really, it's really funny to me that you know the police um the sheriff's department specifically are are so notorious for you know like going after after gang members right like that's one thing that the the sheriff's department does a lot is oh he was a gang member you know gang member had a gun the gang member the gang member and people you know when an unarmed man is killed like ah you know he was a gang member he had ties to a gang it's so funny to me that like that's always their defense when the the gang culture is so rampant within their own ranks you

know it's very ironic to me i fully agree I tweeted something last summer about how I was like, there aren't any good cops because if there were, more of them would speak up about the injustices that are happening to people at the hands of the police. And the only thing people could say back to me when they were like, that's wrong. I used to like you. This is awful. Was like, well, my dad's a cop. Is he a bad person? And I'm like, if he has heard of something terrible that has happened and turned a blind eye,

I don't think he's fully a terrible person, but he's not good and he's not a good cop. So I fully I don't believe that there are good cops. I don't because so much weird, bad shit happens that like they don't speak up about it and then the ones that they do they kind of get bullied out of it and end up having to quit or they get fired exactly and then what is it's like the thin blue line or whatever where it's like we don't cross it everything that happens yeah that blue the blue code of silence yes which is insane it's fully insane and then you have shows like i mean i do love law and order svu i can't watch it much anymore because it's it's kind of traumatic that like every week they figured out a new way

to like kill a woman um but i'm like this is propaganda like they don't there are so many cases like you said like there's true crime podcasts because they don't fucking solve cases. Truly like looking at this, it's it's really disheartening to see, like you said, how many people can be involved in one like instance of crime. Like one case I'm looking at, for example, Gilberto Gutierrez. This is a 27 year old man who was arrested for suspected possession of drugs. And he, during the course of his arrest, developed chest pain and was taken to the hospital. And while he was handcuffed to the bed, he was shot and killed by police officers. His death, the police officers were cleared in his death the sheriff's department of course

were the ones to investigate him and clear these officers of the charges and his family sued the department and despite the fact that the officers who killed him testified under oath that they received gang tattoos after his killing the jury did not find in their favor and the family left with nothing um so there there are tons of stories like that you know and as far as like how systemic this is like i said it goes all the way up our current sheriff alex viannaueva you know he actually sued the county um and made some allegations himself about deputy gangs and you know now he's the sheriff so as far as people knowing like everybody knows about it it's kind of like an open secret um as far as like how powerful the gangs really

are in our sheriff's department and how things really run goes all the way up. I also think it's like interesting that people love to forget that policing stems from slavery. It's like riding around on horses looking for people's property. The people's property were other fucking people. And it just trickled down. It's very convenient that people forget about that. And I do think it's why there's so much white supremacy in not to again, make it about race, but I do think it has a little bit to do with it, why there's so much white supremacy in the police. And then sometimes they'll do things like publicly, like on camera, like, like little, like hand gestures to each other to let each other know like we're here and it's so wild to me that that's not allowed but like truly goes

un like unchecked it's just out there yeah i mean and all of that stuff could be enforced if if our government wanted it to be um you know there's a pretty there's a court case that cited a lot in these conversations where it was established that government employees have limited first amendment protection so you know those hand signs um tattoos that are affiliated with gangs those could all be banned um very easily but it but it's just not something that's been done. And like you said, they're very open about it. I mean, just a few days ago on Sunday, the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department killed a young man that was having a mental health crisis in his car. The saddest part about this story that I've learned so far is that there was a psychiatric care team en route to him, but the sheriff's department got there first and shot him about 17 times. And one of the deputies that was

on the scene is actually on video wearing a hat with a gang logo on it, with a deputy gang logo on it. So, you know, this stuff is very out there. They're very blatant with it. Another point I want to make is that a lot of these deputy gangs, the way they get in is by killing someone, being involved in a use of force incident, that type of thing by you sort of drew back to where policing comes from, but, you know, treating,

treating people as, you know, as objects, as beating them. And that's like a notch in their belt. That's what makes them, you know, that hard like a notch in their belt that's what makes them you know that hard badass cop that's what makes that elevates them in their social circles is by treating us like that i mean that's it's really fucking heavy like shooting somebody 17

times is on it like i mean insane it's like there's no other fucking word for it other than truly fucking insane i don't understand why police don't what like why is it like shoot to kill i mean you probably don't know this answer but it's like why how come it's not shoot to disarm or not even shoot why not just de-escalate the situation and detain? Yeah. I can't really tell you why they do the things they do. You'd have to ask them, right? But I think a good way to get a sense of an idea is to look at their actions and to look at what they say.

In a lot of these depositions, these police officers will say the classic line right i was in fear for my life or i was in fear for my partner's life and that's just sort of accepted as okay like well he had no choice that's the way it happened yeah another thing that they'll say in depositions is that they exhausted all possible less than lethal options like a taser or pepper spray. And that the person was, you know, had this inhuman strength and they couldn't they couldn't stop them. They couldn't stop them. They just kept fighting. In my experience, frankly, that's bullshit.

my experience, frankly, that's bullshit. I've never seen somebody choose to take on an entire police department thinking that they were going to get out of that one alive. And, you know, I think if they're being honest with you, I think that police officers would agree. I mean, I think that, you know, a lot of times these things happen and things can happen very quickly, right? Like we don't know what happened. Like, and if you want to give the officer like the benefit of the doubt and say, okay, like perhaps in that moment, they genuinely did fear for their life. Uh, where it becomes inexcusable to me is all the levels that it has to go through for it to be signed off on right if i make a mistake and i shoot you in the face

like i've obviously made a mistake but if the people around me say okay we're gonna cover this up and make sure that no harm comes to Cerise and we're going to make sure that Nicole is taken away and never heard from again. And we're going to, you know, smear her character and all this kind of things. That's where it becomes. That's where it shows you how insidious it is. Right. Yeah.

That it's the culture. Yeah. I watched a video. This was like not long ago of a man who was shot in his garage. He was unarmed and the police officers who shot him didn't give him medical assistance. Like they called for an ambulance and they just truly walked around just being like, oh, shit, oh, shit. And I was like, my God, like after you realize you've made a terrible mistake and you shot a man in his own garage who was just trying to I don't know.

I don't know what he was doing. He was trying to, like, fix him in his car or something. It's like, well, assist him. Like, give him the fucking assist. You did it. So help him. And I don't even know what happened to those two officers. But, yeah, it is really, really wild. The mental Olympics that goes into, like, figuring out how to cover shit up so you can keep, you know, doing whatever you've been fucking doing. Yeah, definitely. One case that really exemplifies that to me is a man that was in this was in Linwood. He was also experiencing a mental health crisis.

And he actually went up to an officer with his hands up and said hey i'm the one you're looking for she didn't get out of her car she turned in her seat and shot him what yes and after that happened she again did not render medical attention he died in the street and her story is that he got into her car, climbed on top of her, tried to get the gun. And as she was struggling, she shot him. Now, there was no forensic evidence of a struggle because the officers on the scene allowed her to take her belongings out of that car with her and leave that day. So any evidence of a struggle, like maybe hair caught in the lunchbox that was supposedly on her seat or any blood that maybe he would have drawn was gone. So any evidence that,

you know, could have backed up that story that she had was gone. I mean, it just it I think the thing that really sucks the most is how many stories there are. Do you know what I mean? My mother used to say or maybe it was my dad. It was like if more than two people say something, it must be true. And it's like, oh, well, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands. I don't know how many, but so many cases of like the same shit fucking happening so it's like it must be true and it's like why doesn't anyone fucking do anything about it and it's like oh yeah i gotta you know cover my

brother in blue or whatever it's truly insane like i can't there's like no other words for it, but like, what is something that just like a regular old person can do? Yeah. I think that a person one, um, definitely read, read my series. And if you're living in LA, like please read up on who exactly is patrolling your streets. We're publishing a database that maps out all of the associates of these deputy gangs that we've been able to track down, where their last assignments are, how many people they've killed, any beatings that they've been involved with, any other types of violence, that sort of thing. And we're hoping that people will use that to really educate themselves about who is on the street, who has been given a license to essentially kill and can that you know everyday citizens don't have that allows them to frankly get away with these with these killings like what for example in california

we have the peace officers bill of rights uh pobra and that is a piece of legislation that guarantees a police officer a union representative representative, a lawyer. They're allowed to have conversations with those people before they speak to investigators. And they're also allowed to review any evidence of a crime before they speak to an investigator. So they can review evidence. So they get accused of a crime. They get to review their own evidence for the crime. With a lawyer and a union rep well that seems like uh just a leg up on you and uh it's like extra studying

you're getting extra credit fucking things before you take the test that's uh that's so fucked like it's very frustrating too because it's like me as just you know a person it's very frustrating, too, because it's like me as just, you know, a person. It's like I can read up on this shit, but it's like, well, how do we inflect change? Like, how does I guess it's, you know, voting different people. I don't know. How does one be? How does even one become a sheriff? I don't even know.

I don't know very much about anything. I am very, I guess, yeah, under read about our legal system and whatnot. So, yeah, I mean, how does one become a sheriff? The sheriffs are elected. It's kind of wonky. They're elected, but because of the way things are set up, they generally serve until they're tired of it and they're able to sort of pick their successor in a way and endorse who they

think will go next um so our current sheriff alex vianueva he was endorsed by the democratic party he was elected in 2018 i believe and um you know he's he's very happy in his position. He's been known for not following subpoenas that have been issued to him. He you know, I broke a story a couple months back about a law enforcement party that was happening in Hollywood that he didn't like very much and sort of took me to task on Instagram Live for. He's an interesting guy. As far as how people can get involved and see changes in the department and who's running it, it's really, I would say voting. Like you said, there are a lot of groups that have organized around this, that have been doing this work for years. Police Watch Los Angeles is one that comes to mind.

Yeah. So I would really just recommend following the leads of groups that have been in this arena for generations, really. like i said at the top like this stuff has been going on for for almost 50 years now um and people have been working really hard to make some changes i'm hoping that by doing this series and getting people talking it you know activates people to get involved in the fight that's been happening and hopefully we'll move the needle a little bit. How did you get involved in this? Yeah, it's an interesting story. So over the summer, there were protests across the world, really, in response to the death of George Floyd. And at that time, I was working for a local radio station in Los Angeles and I was on the ground covering protests and I actually had my own experience where I was shot with a less than

lethal ammunition by law enforcement and I was hit and unfortunately I was pretty pretty badly injured and I couldn't walk for about six months. I couldn't really walk or exercise normally. Yeah, it really sucked. Um, but you know, it was Corona virus. So everyone else was at home too, but you know, being stuck at home and not really being able to walk around your house, um, you can either like watch Netflix or if you're a nerd like me, you start filing Public Records Act requests. So I was really it started out me just being really pissed about being shot by law enforcement. And I wanted to find out who hit me, who shot me. And I started out looking into that.

And shortly after I was shot, a young man named Andres Guardado was killed by the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. And he was a young man that was working as a security guard. And from what we know, it appears that he was chased down by two deputies that were chasing ink, is what they called it, looking to join a gang by getting a tattoo associated with killing somebody this is a gang called the compton executioners so andres was killed and it came out pretty quickly that the deputies that had been involved

in his death were allegedly involved in this gang and i was really pissed at that point andres was killed just a few blocks away from where my niece stays with her grandmother and you know she's she's a black child she's a mexican child she's a mixed child uh we're a black family we're a family of color and it just really it really hit home i had been violated i felt like my neighborhood had been violated and you know i had gotten pretty good at filing cpr requests so i figured you know i'm gonna i'm gonna find out everything i can about these sheriff's gangs i grew up in la county i've been hearing since i was a kid that the sheriff's department were the largest gang in la county that's something that i've heard for years, but I never was able to really find any comprehensive history detailing like

who these gangs were, what they did, how they worked, how you could identify them. So, you know, last summer I just figured, you know, why not? Why can't I just write it myself? And that's where we are today. I mean, it's really fucked up that you got shot and it being non-lethal left you unable to like do things for six fucking months like that's that's intense that's like so you were shot with a rubber bullet yeah they're called less than lethal munitions but they can kill

people i spoke i spoke with some manufacturers manufacturers of the bullet that actually hit me as part of my nerding out on the couch. And they're actually instructed to shoot at the ground and bounce the bullets up when they're breaking the crowd, but that's not what the officers were doing. Luckily, I was hit from a distance, so it wasn't as bad as it could have been. But again, it not being as bad, I wasn't able to walk for six months. I've heard stories about people that

have lost eyes, that have died, that have holes in their skulls from being hit with these things. They're called less than lethal, but they can kill you. Oh, buddy, that's fun. Like, it just, yeah, it really fucking sucks yeah yeah it does yeah i'm really sorry that fucking happened to you god yeah yeah i just it's really interesting or not interesting but you know i read up on like what to do if you get hit with a rubber bullet what it what to do if you get hit with tear gas before going to protests and whatnot. And I can't help but think that the people who went to the insurrection, you know, have that fun time. I don't think they looked up any of that stuff because I don't think they thought any of that was going to happen. And I don't think much of it did happen.

It's just interesting that, you know, it's like, please stop killing us. OK, well, we're going to shoot you with something that's not supposed to kill you. Yeah, it's a bummer. Yeah, it is a real bummer. But I hope that I've always believed that sunshine is the best medicine for these kinds of things. I'm really hoping that, you know, getting all this information out there in the public eye where people can easily access it will will help things start to change. I mean, I think that the reason why things have gotten so bad is that these gangs have been able to do their business and really in the public eye. I mean, people don't really know about it. Right. guy i mean people don't really know about it right i've been able to operate openly um but people don't really quite know like who they are and make and make the connections about oh that's

the same guy that beat this guy is the same guy that beat that guy now he's working over there and he's doing this he's that it's not easy to get that information right this all this information exists and it's public record but it's all stored in such a way that it's it's pretty impossible to put together unless you're stuck on the couch for six months, unable to walk and you don't have anything else to do. Like I said, I spent six months just like reading hundreds of thousands of pages of documents. It's it's been a lot of work. And I think that, you know, there's a reason that it took me so long. And there's a reason that it, you know,

it cost over $3,000 to obtain these documents. There's a reason why I had to spend so much time, you know. You have to spend money to get public records? Oh, that's another thing that people don't know. Although things are public record, yes, you do have to pay to access them. Yes. Wow.

And even though they're public records, sometimes you can't always get them. One thing that one fucked up thing that happens with a lot of these deputy gang cases is that the files will mysteriously disappear. One case that I was trying to get a hold of even though it occurred in 2015 there was no record of it at the courthouse which shouldn't shouldn't happen it's a public record it needs to be at the court I went down to the court two times and the and the court clerk sat with me for an hour going through files and said hmm that's funny it's not here that's really weird that it's not here so you know things like that are pretty stuff like that happened to me a lot in the case of researching this series. So what happens? So if like a document just isn't there, that's it. But it's just not there. Yeah. I mean, then then things get a little bit more interesting than I have to go another route, like talking to the attorneys,

seeing if the attorneys have copies of any of the documents. That's that usually that's a good bet. But because of covid, you know, people aren't in their offices. So it gets a little bit more tricky. Do you ever fear retaliation? 100 percent. Yes. I've spoken to attorneys that have been threatened with death, threatened with being beaten. I've had one of my sources, he had several drive-bys done on his house when he was doing his own investigation into the sheriff gang. So, yeah, I mean, it's something I think about all the time. Whew. I mean, then I thank you for doing the work.

I mean, that's like a scary thing to be like. I would like to, you know, try to create change. Change involves, you know, digging deep. And then also change involves maybe, you know, these fucking gangs retaliating. Yeah, I don't really have a follow up question on that, because that to me is terrifying. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's really, I mean, I didn't really go into this project, like thinking that it would get that deep. And I think it's something that I'm still coming to terms with. And I won't really know how serious it gets until until it's happening. Right.

But at the end of the day, like nothing would stop me from doing this work, from doing this research. I think that, you know, no matter what happens, I've this has been a noble task. I think it will help a lot of people. I've already heard from one attorney who is using my research in a federal case. So fucking cool. Yeah. So, you know,

like I'm just, even if that's like the one thing that, that happens, like I'll feel really good about that. I've, I've met a lot of people who unfortunately lost family members at the hands of law enforcement. And they're,

they're really happy that people are still, that people, people still care about their sons, that people are still that people people still care about their sons, that people are still asking about, you know, their dad and looking into what what really happened. And that's been really rewarding to feeling that I can I can help them and even sometimes give them a little information that they didn't have before. Like, oh, the guy who killed that oversaw the your son's beating death wrote a fucking Amazon book and is essentially bragging about it.

Yeah. Well, we've come to the end. Is there anything you want to promote? Yeah. We just talked about how expensive public records are. I would love if your listeners could shoot a dollar or two over to the Knock Patreon. There's a lot more work to do on this project, and it's probably going to cost another $3,000 to get those documents.

So if you're able, we would love the donation. Okay. And then can you just explain what NOC is for people who might not know? Yeah, of course. So NOC Los Angeles is a, or sorry, NOC LA is a independent journalism project that is an arm of Ground Game LA. Ground Game LA is a group in LA that does a lot of great work. They do homeless outreach. They're helping people get vaccinated right now. They're a great nonprofit.

And Knock is their journalism arm. Knock is their journalism arm. And they've been great to be a home for this series and to help me build a database to get it out into the world. And I'm very grateful for them. Cool. Cerise, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you so much for having me, Nicole. Well, if you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me,

you can like it, you can rate it, you can subscribe on iTunes. That's it bye bye check out cerise's ongoing investigation there's a link in the episode notes and we'll be back this friday with an episode with the loop daddy himself marg ruby a so i'll see you then and then that episode i promise you we're back to the cheekihis. Everything's good. This has been a Team Coco production.