Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Poly Relationships (w/ Zoe Lister-Jones)

Episode Date: April 21, 2023

Actress/writer/director Zoe Lister-Jones (Slip) shares her experience opening and closing her "don't ask don't tell" poly relationship, what she's learned after exiting a 17-year marriage, and delves into the empowering nature of "dating to fuck". Nicole really wants to crash the cool teen party down her block.  Write to Nicole! Submit your dirty pick-up lines, dating stories, or questions to [e-mail] for a chance to have it read on-air. Follow Nicole Byer: Twitter: @nicolebyerInstagram: @nicolebyerMerch: podswag.com/datemeNicole's book: indiebound.org/book/9781524850746

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why! Ooh, baby! Welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me? A podcast where me, Nicole Byer, is exploring the thematic idea of love. I was trying to figure out why I'm still single, but listen, it's been five years, six years, don't know, don't have an answer.

So we're just talking about love. My guest today is an actress, writer, director, and producer who you know from Whitney and The New Girl. Now she's making TV history as the first woman to write, direct, and star in every episode of a television series with her upcoming show, Slip. It's Zoe Lister-Jones! Thank you, Nicole. That's a fun thing, that you're the very first woman to do that. I think that's what they told me. That's what they told me. I think so. There are obviously so many women who have, you know, come before me and done

incredible things on television. But I think it's the directing every episode of a season that hasn't been done in conjunction with those other things. How fun. Wait, are you done? Are you done? It sounded so disingenuous, but I do mean it. So are you wrapped? Oh, yeah.

It's coming out April 21st. We locked this fall. So I've just been sort of sitting around waiting to share it with the people just waiting waiting being like i have something wonderful i did it when will you put it out i know the feeling were you exhausted that seems okay here's like a logistical thing that me as an actor probably should know but i'm sure other people will be like, yeah, that's a good question. Or they'll be like, you're an idiot, Nicole.

Don't know. Okay, so when you're directing yourself, do you have playback or do you just like, you're just like, maybe I'll do this. Well, okay. Well, the first movie I directed, which I also starred in and wrote, I didn't have playback because it was so low budge

and we shot it in 12 days and there just like simply was not enough time for playback. But on slip, I did have playback and I had these, the two sweetest dudes named Max and Flax. They were like Pixar characters and they would just run up to me with a little mini monitor. But I tried not to go back to playback too often because I like to stay in it with the actor and I guess I trust myself enough to be able to direct from within the scene. It's really like directing from within the belly of the beast, you know? You get to be right up in it. That's so wild. I don't think I have that gene because sometimes I'll be in a scene and i'm like wow my friend is acting so

good and then i'll forget to do my line because i'm like really enjoying their performance but that's good that's a good thing it happens during improv too i guess i'm constantly ruining things because i'm like wow wow that was really good you're really good but that's so much better than being like oof what a stinker of an actor my friend is I've been there too and a weird thing happens where I over do things to be like hey maybe you say words better wait so you're do you like try to direct from within even when you're not directing sometimes I do think as an actor you're doing it unconsciously right you're, do you like try to direct from within even when you're not directing? Sometimes I do think as an actor, you're doing it unconsciously, right? You're like, yes, let's say it. Just trying to like, yeah, give them a little bit more feeling so that they give you more.

So I try to like step up a little bit so they match me. So then they're just like better. So you essentially are directing from within the scene. That's what I do also. Oh, but you just get to say it out loud. But sometimes you don't even have to because you can manipulate first through your own acting.

God, acting is so interesting. It really, I think it's really interesting. I think it's really boring to bring people to set because everything moves so slowly. But I like fundamentally on set every day. I'm like, this is really interesting. It is. It's such a wild, it's one of the only places I'm such a heady person that like strangely acting is one of the only places that like I turn off my brain, which is maybe not good, but like there is something about it that I like because the the end goal is to be as present as you can possibly be in the moment. Like I sort of then just get to not think about all the other bullshit that I'm generally thinking about if I'm doing my job well.

That's what acting is for me. You kind of just like leave all the bullshit at the door and then you're like, ooh, I get to make people laugh, make people feel. Totally. Ugh. What a dream. And I love when camera operators go, that's funny. And I go, is it? I know.

I love compliments. Live for making the crew laugh. That's like the greatest gift. That's what I say. Because I'm like, they've been there. They've seen it all. Most of them have worked for like forever. And if it's a comedy, they've probably worked on a comedy.

And it's like, when you get them to laugh, it's like, ooh, that means I'm really funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're the toughest audience. They're eating such bad catering, you know, all day. Catering in the last five years, I think, has gone so downhill. What a really insidery conversation. Listen, let's talk catering. Catering in the last five years, I think, has gone so downhill. What a really insidery conversation. Listen, let's talk catering. Catering is sick.

Catering is, though, like, this is gross, but, like, you can tell that, like, when there's, like, such collective gas on a set. Do you know what I mean? Which is, like, it's no good for anyone. You're all trapped in a set. Do you know what I mean? Which is like, it's no good for anyone. You're all trapped in a room. You'd think there'd be more incentive just on a sort of digestive front to get better food to us all. One would think. I was on a show once where the vegetables in the morning were just like rotten. And I was like, but you put it on a plate, but you put that on a plate and you gave it to me. Do you hate me? Why? Why? Wait, Zoe, are you,

are you single? Are you dating or do you not want to say? Cause that's an option. I think I'd rather not say, but I did get out of a, I did get out of a, not get out of, but I separated from my husband a couple of years ago. That's a nicer way to put it. I got out of, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Separated. So we were together for 17 years, which was a really massive relationship and are still very close, which is, I've heard you talk on this show about consciously uncoupling. And so we did do that. And so that, yeah, that's probably the most major relationship news I can share was that transition into being on my own. 17 years is a very long time.

Very long. And in those 17 years, do you feel like, hmm, that like you lost a little bit of yourself in the relationship? Yeah, I think you, I think I was fiercely like fighting to hang on to myself. Like with no judgment of my partner, I was just like, I think because my mom is such a feminist and like raised me to be like, you never share a bank account. You buy your own home. You know, like there's so much about like, don't lose yourself in something to the point

of like erasure financially and otherwise. I mean, it's fucking smart. It was good advice. I mean, it did make me a little like cagey, but I don't think I did. I mean, we made a lot of work together. So that was interesting. And it was very personal work. Like like we made our first movie was about an open relationship that we were in um and so that was like there was definitely a lot of like um merging merging artistically and otherwise that i think we had to navigate and also like sharing our story which was that we i think that movie's called Breaking Upwards. It came out in 2009 or 10. So it was kind of before all the, all the kids were Polly, you know?

Now every, yeah, now, now your grandma's Polly, you know? Everyone over 30, it feels like is P poly. Like, a bunch of my friends are like, you know, it's a new step in our relationship. And I was like, okay, all right. How did you like being poly? Was it for you? You know, like, I appreciate the poly lifestyle from an intellectual level because I think it's very challenging and I don't know that it is for me. But I think the way that what I learned when I was exploring polyamory from, you know, deep poly heads was like that monogamy and non-monogamy could be viewed as equally challenging. We're just more used to monogamy as a construct. And I always found that interesting just to think about because monogamy is really challenging, you know, for so many people.

Slip is sort of about that. It's like about all of the what ifs that, um, whether you're in a relationship or not, like that sort of plague us throughout a life. I think especially in the pandemic, we were all like, well, what about that person I kissed once in high school? Should I have married him? Um, and what would, what it would look like if you actually got to live out those fantasies or those what-ifs and see them in reality. Which is also what Polly's kind of about. It's like being like, that person's hot at the bar, but I could actually do something about it and not be a shady trash person. I don't think I could be Polly. shady trash person. I don't think I could be Polly. The more I think about it, like, again,

you said you appreciate the like, the idea of it. Same. Yeah, I think the idea of it's so nice. It's like, I don't own you. You go do whatever you want. We choose when we get to be together. But then I have so many insecurities that I'm like, oh, there's a reason why you don't want just me. There's a reason why you want other people. And I think it would make me go fucking crazy. Yeah, I did lose my marbles. For sure. I'm also a deeply jealous person. So that's a difficult pill to swallow when your partner is fucking other people.

Yeah. And I like, I do, I mean, you know, we're actors, so it's like, we like a spotlight. Yeah. I do. I really love someone paying a lot of attention to me. It makes me feel good. We're not trying to be a part of an ensemble.

We're trying to be a star. You don't want to be part of the chorus. We're trying to be a star. You don't want to be part of the chorus line. Nobody puts me in a corner. Did you guys have like rules as to what you talked about? Because I know some of my friends are like, we tell each other every time we go out with somebody. We just like we tell them about the person a little bit. Yeah. Which I think would crush me. You know what's interesting, Nicole? So my godparents of polyamory, my mom's friends are poly, right? And they sort of taught us how to do it and what to read and how to navigate. And for many years, we operated on a don't ask, don't tell system, which I thought was better. And in some ways, I still waver between what's better because I think

if your partner's paying enough attention to you and you're not feeling the impact of whatever they're doing outside of your relationship, I might like rather not know, you know what I mean? Like, um, but then it gets complicated because, um, because then there is like omission happening and what are we sharing? What are we hiding? Can you trust it? Trust just comes up a lot. I guess so, yeah. So then we started sharing more about it. And that was, I think that is ultimately the way to go. If you're going to do it. Because it is about, like, radical honesty.

Yeah. I think I would have to do it that way because the don't ask, don't tell thing when I start dating someone find exactly who their ex was and every girl I've ever dated and I look at them and I go how closely do they resemble me or is this a swing in a different direction

so it's like if my partner didn't tell me who they were sleeping with I would just find them I would let work fall by the wayside I would stay up sleeping with, I would just find them. I would let work fall by the wayside. I would stay up all night and I would figure it out. So yeah, I think it would just be healthier to just be like, I'll just tell you. Now, do you ask when you're dating someone about their previous relationships, like from the jump? No, I wait like a month or two. And then I go, what's the longest relationship you've been in?

And I already know. I've scrolled down on their Instagram and I've counted the years. I just want to know if you're going to tell me. It's not good. But it's not not good. Hey, Zoe, thank you so much. I think it's important to learn all those things. I think waiting one to two months is actually very admirable.

Thank you. I try to have a little bit of restraint so I don't come across as a fully insane person. Do you know what I mean? I do. But I am insane. It is what it is. It is what it is. It is what it is. But also, everyone's insane.

That's the thing. It's like, everyone's doing that kind of research. I don't know if people... I mean, okay, in poly, there's like a term called compersion. Which is like, it's like to want your partner... I'm probably going to fuck this up and like the poly community is going to come for me. They're going to come for you. But it's like to want your partner to also have great experiences with other people. It's like if you love someone, you want them to live laugh loving. I guess I'm like, I want them to live laugh love with me I'm the only one I know listen I struggle

with it I I definitely struggle with it because I do want to hang with the cool kids you know yeah but but it's it's it's definitely not without so many challenges. And even my poly godparents are. Your hairy poly godparents. I love that. They've told me, like, their stories are harrowing. It's not like they've got it down to a science. Nobody does. But then you hear harrowing stories of monogamy, too.

You know, of people having sick affairs and secret families and whatever, getting too, going too deep into some DMs. There was an improv show where I was at where maybe I heard about it. Maybe it wasn't at it. You know, you hear stories a bunch. You're like, I was there. Anyway, there was an improv show. Let's say you were at it you're like, I was there. But anyway, there was an improv show. Let's say you were at it. Let's say I was there.

And they interviewed somebody in the audience. And their dad had like three separate families along the coast of California. And all the kids were named the same names. And they went to the dad's funeral. All of the families ended up meeting. And like the moms didn't know either. So they just showed up to this funeral, which, hmm, I have a question. Who planned the funeral if not the mom?

I guess maybe his brother or something. Listen, maybe I wasn't there because I don't have all the facts. I'm like, you were at the funeral, Nicole. That's what's crazy about this story. I was right there at the funeral and it was my dad. There was three different Nicoles there. It was wild. I do want you to write this script though. But truly imagine finding out that your dad had a whole other family. Then it's just like, yeah, maybe talk about polyamory.

That there's doppelgangers of you across the country. Named your name. That's fucked. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, that's when polyamory maybe does make more sense. Yeah. Yeah, just talk about it. Be like, hey, I don't, this isn't just for me.

And then the person can make a choice. If you cheat on someone, the other person doesn't have autonomy? Is that a word I can use there? I think so. Hey, thank you. I approve. I approve of autonomy. Thank you so much. interesting like because there's always you always want to put a lot of rules on non-monogamy to make it feel safer yes but rules go out the window once you start fucking you know what i mean that's the thing and that's where you have to be able to really trust a part your your primary partner because like when someone says like well you just can't you can have sex with other people, but you can't fall in love. It's like, you can't really make those rules.

People just fall in love. The question is, if they fall in love, can you trust that they'll probably fall out of love and then come back to you? Ooh, wait. Okay, in theory, I love it. But in practice, it would make me crazy. But also, in theory, it's like, well, I don't own my partner. My partner should be allowed to go do whatever they want and I should be okay with it and trust that they'll come back. And if they don't come back, that's their own prerogative because they're their own person. But no, I don't want that. No, no. You got to lock them in.

Lock them up, lock them in. Trick them. Never let them leave your house. I was watching this show last night called Searching for Brother Husband, which is the wildest name for a show. Oh, no. What is that?

TLC, the learning channel, wants you to learn so many different things but it was this woman who was a bunch of women looking for um polyamorous relationships and there was one lady who had a husband she asked to open the relationship and then met another man and then that man moved into their house and has and they've been like a throuple except the two men don't interact. It's just they're her partners. And one is her primary and one like has his own room

and like hangs out. And then they're both freaking out because she wants to open up the relationship further and take on other lovers and have her own bedroom. And I was like, boy, oh boy,

this woman, how does she get two men who are okay with this? And then she wants more? I was like, how greedy. How greedy. I got to tell you something. I love that. I love it too, but I don't know how she's doing it. She has an insatiable appetite and she knows to ask for what she needs. And if people are not willing to play according to her rules, brother-husband has to leave. Now, my question is, who is brother? I don't know.

And I'm 90%—wait, let me look this up. I'm pretty sure it's called Seeking Brother-Husband. I don't think it's okay. Yes, it's called Seeking Brother-Husband. And yeah, I can't really tell you why. Oh, wait. No, I don't know. Maybe it's because the two husbands are essentially brothers.

Oh, no, that's not good. No, they're not like legally brothers, but maybe it's because they're not sexually intimate. They're like, oh, and they're not companions. I don't know. Zoe, this is wild. The name of the show never bothered me until you said it. First of all, I have a lot of things to circle back to

about the sentence that you just said. But like, why? We have to talk to TLC. Let's get TLC in the chat. We got to get up. Wait real quick. We have to take a break. And we're back. That was brought to you by brother,

husband. No, I'm kidding. It definitely wasn't, but it is a wild name, but it really didn't hit me until you said it. Yo, who's the brother? Because I don't think anyone should be searching for Brother Husband. No. I just think, even though many times husband becomes brother.

And we don't, but that's not something that we're aspiring to, you know? Yeah, no. Yeah, we want, I can't wait to watch Searching for a Brother. I mean, it was pretty interesting. I just couldn't believe this lady. And then I think it's Carl and Tiger. So her husband's name's Carl. Tiger is the second who was added.

And they've been together for 10 years. And I can't remember how long she was with her husband before Tiger entered the picture. Yeah. And she wants to have like a commitment ceremony with Tiger, but Tiger's family just thinks that he's dating a married woman. She's like, it's been 10 years like i have a fulfilling relationship with tiger and i think tiger has become her primary partner in the bedroom but car i don't remember it was it was a lot of people to keep

track of because then there was another woman who just like introduced the idea to her uh her husband and he's like, okay. And then she keeps saying things like, I mean, are you going to be okay when you see me holding hands and kissing someone else? And he's like, you know, I think, you know, and I don't think he's okay with it. Maybe brother-husband was all, wait, what's her name? Oh, God. I don't remember any of the ladies' names. Let's call her Nicole.

Maybe... Okay. Oh. Maybe brother-husband was all her idea so that husband-husband wasn't too jealous. She's like, no, no, no, he's my brother-husband. You know, even though he's primary in the bedroom. Maybe. I mean, it truly is a wild show. And I, her name is Kenya,

that's her name. And she's great. Kenya. Yeah, that's good. Did you watch Fuckboy Island? I didn't get too, too into it. I watched the first couple episodes, and I did like it. I thought it was fun. I really liked the interviews with the men who were like, yeah, I'm a fuckboy. And I'm like, okay.

It's insane. It's insane. I was so hooked. Just the amount of, like, lies and manipulate, boldface lies and manipulation are really my love language. If we're speaking honestly.

I do like watching TV where people are just being horrible people to each other. Horrible, horrible. I've recently been watching Survivor. Oh. And I feel that I need, I'm trying to really learn the rules of life through it because I don't feel that I'm, I don't feel that I'm strategy oriented, especially when it comes to love. Oh, with love? I don't even know how to be strategic. I think, I find love to be so confounding and confusing, and I know I'm a loud person, and that might have to do with my lack of love.

But also, I don't know. Maybe I need to go out more. I don't know. Do you feel that you have, like, a type or a person that you have in your mind? In my mind, I have a very nice person who I find very handsome or pretty. I don't really care about gender. I'm pretty heteronormative, but like if a woman came in my life or a non-binary person or a trans person came into my life, I wouldn't just close the door because that sounds insane to me. Can't. Because people are people and people are beautiful.

Oh yeah. But yeah, in my mind, a nice person person who likes me, loves me, and is nice, but the people I go for are people who are good looking to me, who are then mean to me, and actively don't like me. Nicole. T. I see. So that's the reality versus the fantasy. Yes. That's an interesting one. I struggled with that for a lot of my life of just like chasing unrequited love. Yes.

Because it is a way to avoid real intimacy. Yeah. Because you're like, this person doesn't like me, but if I try hard enough, they maybe will like me. But deep down, I know they will never change and it's fine. We're not compatible. But that rejection, you know, you cry a little bit, but it doesn't really hurt because you haven't opened up really. Exactly. You've just been doing bits. It is also like a very easy, although painful way of validating your own self-loathing, very easy, although painful way of validating your own self-loathing, which I feel is something, you know, it's the lifelong journey to try to actually transcend that. And I feel like there's so many relationship experts that are like, we have to learn to love yourself first, which true.

But the other thing I do also believe is that you can learn a lot in relationship with another person. I think so too, because a lot of times people are like, finish your bullshit before you get into a relationship. Like, make sure you're rock solid. And it's like, but maybe somebody might help you become a better person or the better version of you. And maybe that's okay that they help you do that. Not that I think it's anyone's job to like help somebody, but I don't know, maybe that would be a nice thing. For sure. And also nobody who is rock solid. I don't know a single rock solid person. No, me either. Most of my friends are having nervous breakdowns constantly.

Yeah. I feel like it's always that there's always those two archetypes of like nice person rejecting person. And the nice person is conventionally less attractive because they're available. Because they have to be. No, not like physically, but like they are a less sexy option because they're i see no no i'm not saying nice people are not i truly thought you're saying nice people were ugly and i was right there with you i was like they're the ugliest no no they're nasty that those people are not thought of as sexy because they are kind and making themselves available to you. And it's the chase that we've been taught is like the sexy thing. Yeah, which is funny because I feel like I've always been told that like men like to chase.

But since no men were ever chasing me, I was like, well, I'll just take that into my own hands. And I don't think men like to be chased. I don't know if people like to. I don't know. I don't really like being chased because I'm like, ew, why are you pressing so hard? And I don't know why I'm wired like that. I think it's so normal. But I will say being chased by the right person is a pretty fun game.

I just got to wait for the right person. Because there was this man who was like kind of chasing me, but then I just stopped texting him back because I was like, it's too much. Because I wasn't feeling it. It was just, we also had nothing in common and okay our interactions in person weren't like the most like I wasn't like oh wow I was just like okay all right yeah if you know you know yeah and I feel like yeah it's like a an easy thing where you're like yeah that's not that person's not for me wait do, do you remember your very first relationship? My first relationship was, I was a late bloomer. My first kiss was like 16, but then I was very afraid of being in a relosh. I had a lot of fear around intimacy and and so my first real relationship was in college with a person who was infatuated with me like publicly infatuated with me and I did not find that attractive until he fucked my friend.

Okay. That makes sense to me because you're like, oh, wait, she wanted that. So maybe I want that. That's right. And then I did want that. And then the second he had me, he was actively mean to me. Like he had pined for me for so long. And then once I opened my heart up, he just stomped it like that, like that lady on YouTube with the grapes. Remember? I, of course I remember. Ow, ow, ow, ow.

I haven't thought about that in so long. Oh, what a funny video. What a real treat. What a gift. Ow Oh, what a funny video. What a real treat. What a gift. What a gift. But he did break, he broke my heart. So like, I was devastated in the wake of that. Yeah.

But I learned, I learned a lot. And then I almost immediately started dating my ex-husband and then was, you know, married for so long. Swept away. Wait, 17 years truly is so long. So wait, how long were you open for those 17 years? We opened and closed it. Like, we weren't, I think two years in, we opened it for a year.

And that was like our don't ask, don't tell. We were young. We were like 23. So we were just, you know, out on those streets. It wasn't like we were looking for like a poly other relationship. We could barely handle our own relationship. And then we closed it up. And then it was like open and closed sort of off and on throughout,

but never too significantly. And then towards the end of our relationship, we were more actively like poly for probably like a year. So it was the breadth of our relationship was pretty monogamous, which probably made those like bursts a little easier because it was sort of a tested thing that we were in. I think it would make me feel more comfortable to be like, okay, we've been monogamous for two years. Now we open. Now we're closed for two years. Now we're open.

Just for a little bit, and then you come back. You love me forever. It's a release valve. And also, as actors, you know how it is. It's a crazy thing we do, you know? Like, to be on set sort of at summer camp. Yes, that's truly what it is. It's really a wild and demented life we lead. every time i go to work i'm like oh my god i'm gonna fall in love on set today and then every day i go to set and i go everyone here is fucking married it's depressing really wait but there's got to be some single people on your sets

the last job i worked i feel like every single person was married. And I would ask. I'd be like, are you married? Let me see your wife. Let me see your wife. It's my favorite thing to know who people go home to. Me too. Because sometimes you're like, oh, I know exactly what your wife looks like. And then sometimes you're wholeheartedly surprised and you're like, oh, I would never. Or, ooh, what a babe. I know.

And then it's like an acting exercise where you have to just be excited by everyone's spouse because you can't just go, ew. Well, it's also really interesting like at like wrap parties, like when a show is over, when a movie is over and people bring their partners because you've been living in this bubble where people are, they act differently, you know, at work.

And then you see them like in this new persona with their significant others. I love breaking that down. It's very fun. I want to dive right into the psychology of people's relationships. This doesn't have to do with a relationship, but at a wrap party, our locations person or assistant, I don't know, she worked in locations.

She was really funny. She got so hammered that she lost her shoes. And it made me laugh so hard because I'd never seen her like that. But I was like, wow, people are different at work than they are at a party. Oh my God.

Yeah, she got into a cab shoeless and she's like, I gotta go. Yeah, you do. That's incredible. Yeah, people get shwasted. They work hard and then they play hard. And then they play

so hard that you're like, they lose their damn shoes. God, that was my absolute favorite wrap party. Everyone lost their mind. Oh my God. Zoe, do you like love? That's a weird question, and I'm going to stand by it. First of all, I love the question.

And I'm going to say, I love love. Same. Like, I might love love a little too much. What do you mean by that? No, I just, I'm a very romantic person beneath this cold exterior, you know? I know, I do. Like, I love love. And I think, not to bring it back to my show, but the show is like an exploration. It is an exploration of loving love. Like, I'm the type of person that if I meet someone and I have a connection, I flash forward to a

whole ass life together. Like, because I'm not a person who's like, well, that person would be fun to sleep with. I'm like, that person would be fun to be my life partner forever. And I think that is like, something that I'm always so interested in, like why I go there, why I go straight to, like, falling in love with a person, conceptually even, rather than being slightest bit of interest in me, I'm like, oh my word, you're going to be the perfect partner. We won't have any children. You're okay with that. We might get a dog together and then you'll move in with me and we'll be in love forever. I do it all the time. Like if you, if a man or a person honestly is just nice to me, All the time.

Like, if a man or a person, honestly, is just nice to me, I envision a whole world. I went through a phase where I was dating not with an intention. I was just like, I'm dating to fuck. And then that was bad. Interesting. Why? Because sometimes I'd fuck people that I had zero interest in, was not attracted to, and don't really understand why I was doing it.

Because at the end of the day, you'd be like, okay, so I had sex, but it wasn't good sex. It wasn't fulfilling sex, and it wasn't with someone I had a connection with. And then I started dating a little bit with intention, and then, like, I've had sex so much with people I don't care about and then when I finally had sex with someone that I was like oh there's like a little bit of feelings attached where like I also think you like me back I was like oh this is this is what I should have been looking for I know I know I have a single friend who's been having a similar dilemma. Also, I think as women, it is empowering to be like, I'm going to date to fuck, you know, like I can do that too. And it doesn't have to be attached to emotion or commitment or the idea of romance. But I, I'm just not built that way. Like I, I'm just not built that way.

Like I, yeah, I wish that I was built that way a little bit more. But I do find, I mean, but everyone, even people who are able to fuck casually will admit to fucking a person that you like is going to be exponentially more enjoyable. I hope. I also hope. Because it's like if you like them but I guess you could like someone and have bad sex 100% I feel like you just gotta talk to them you just go do this please

and can you do that yeah for sure for sure I was I had to direct from within sex scenes because the show is it's's very much about sex. I'm like fucking my way through a multiverse. And that was interesting because it was giving me like courage to direct from within real sex. Ah, see, I like that. You know what I'm saying? That's very empowering. Yes.

Like what you were saying is like, just say what you need. I've always been like that. I've always been pretty vocal and be like, hey, don't do that. I don't like it. Can you do this? Ooh, that's fun. Yeah. Yeah.

Because that's a great way of establishing intimacy too. Of like, nobody has to. I had a partner who asked me after the first time we hooked up what I liked what I didn't like and that was like that's nice amazing I'd never been asked that before because like it's a scary question to ask I don't think I've ever been asked that before either I've definitely asked people being like what do you like and then sometimes you're like oh god Nicole all you talk about is sex and I'm like yes because I like, what do you like? And then sometimes you're like, oh, God, Nicole, all you talk about is sex. And I'm like, yes, because I like it. And it's fun to have.

Please answer the query. Wait, Zoe, real quick. We have to take another break. Zoe, we're back from the break. Oh, God. Do you? Okay. Have you ever been on the apps at all?

Do you know, Nicole, I haven't. How lucky. I'm an app virgin. But I'm intrigued. Listen, nothing good is happening on these apps. It's not fun. It's not a good time. I recently just deactivated all of them because I was like, I don't know.

Maybe I'll meet someone in real life, but I'm really tired of swiping and having mundane conversations with someone and then meeting them in person and going, you're not better than I thought you were. I know. I know. I can imagine. But there is something fun about like, this is a psychotic thing to say, but like shopping for a date. Because I am a compulsive, like, especially internet shopping. So like, it is internet shopping for a person. It is. And oh my God, maybe that's why I'm doing bad. Because I like to buy weird things. I just bought a weird purse in the shape of a dog.

And then in theory, it seemed good. And I liked it. And then it came to my house and I was like, this is bad. This is not good. This like weird shaggy dog purse that I bought. Maybe I'm doing the same thing with people where I'm like, this interesting person. So you need to shift just first your purchases, your online purchases in general. And then that's going to be a pipeline to your people purchase.

I think so. I think if I just buy more thoughtful things that will help my life instead of clutter my life. That really suit you. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Maybe. Because I'm a wild impulse buyer. Like, I will buy something off Instagram

before my eyes are open in the morning, you know? But generally, it comes to me and I like it. No, I bought... I was at the airport for like 10 hours a couple weeks ago. It was really terrible. They kept pushing my flight back and then they just fucking canceled it. But I bought so much garbage while I was there. I just kept being like, yes, yes, yes. And then it all came to my house when I got back and I was like, oh no, now I gotta open all this shit.

And then I returned most of it. Was there anything you kept? Yeah, I'm not going to open all this shit. And then I returned most of it. Yeah. Was there anything you kept? Yeah, I kept some weird sweatshirts from Nike. They're like purple and then one is pink. And then it says, you're beautiful or something. I don't know. There's like this weird inspirational quote on it that I was like,

I mean, if anyone gets close enough to my chest to read it, maybe they're a good friend and something will happen. Okay, so we're looking for the purple sweatshirt of people. Yes. Comfy, pretty, cozy, and with a corny inspirational message within. We love this. I've just learned

of the golden retriever partner. What's that? This is a thing. This is an archetype. I just learned of the golden retriever partner. What's that? This is a thing. This is an archetype. I just learned about it. I guess a person that greets you with like excitable energy. It is the... I was talking to Zoe about this before we started recording, so I could jump in here.

Yeah. A golden retriever boyfriend is a significant other that is easygoing and makes it simple to maintain a happy relationship. They're an easy laugh. They usually exhibit traits associated to that of the dog, which includes being joyful, playful, high energy, silly, warm, and loving. I want to be that. We want golden retriever partners. Easy laugh. I don't love the dog metaphor only because like, I'm not, A, I'm not a huge dog person, but dogs jump up. There's like an invasion of boundaries. But I love the idea of like, yeah, easy, accessible, committed, open, fun. I love an easy laugh. I do love an easy laugh. Although every person I've ever dated is like you don't laugh a lot

and I'm like but I do they go no you say that's funny I do that too I think it's just working in comedy it's like I don't laugh at jokes anymore especially like jokes that are like oh I knew it was coming or like oh that was a good joke's solid. I truly only laugh at things that either surprise me or are so fantastical that I'm like, oh, boy, that was truly wild. What a dream. But yeah, just like normal people. That's funny. Normies don't make you laugh. Sometimes they don't. But I dated this person for a little bit who every now and again would make me like guffaw,

like knee slap, like real laughs. And they would always be like, how come that doesn't happen every time I make a joke? I'm like, I don't know, man. I can't help you with that. I don't know. That's tough. That's tough. But do you want a laugher um at your jokes yes and no

a smile will do or uh you crazy girl will do i do really want to meet that person who every time I talk goes, you crazy girl. You crazy girl. Oh, man. Yeah, and I don't need anyone to be particularly funny. I just need them to be down to clown. Do you know what I mean? If I start moonwalking in the middle of the mall,

they can't be upset with me. They have to be like, well, I'll moonwalk too, or I'll start singing Michael Jackson. You know, like, we got to be dummies together. Yeah, I feel that. But it's interesting that you don't want, like, I really, I love a razor sharp wit, you know. It's that, that is a real turn on for me. I'm, I'm less of a, of a mall moonwalker. Ah, I see. And I support your mall moonwalking. Thank you so much. And I think if we were in a mall together, I would moonwalk with you. Oh, thank you. That makes me very happy because I look for that quality in friendship too. I like friends who, who will do silly. I just like being silly sometimes. Yeah. I don't have like, I, I was an only child and like, I just was a serious kid.

I was a very serious kid and I didn't, um, yeah, I don't like go to silly easily, but I love people who can bring that out in me. Wait, as an only child, was it lonely sometimes? Or were you just like, that's my life. I don't, it's fine. I think as an adult, I understand how lonely I was. Especially like in the wake of my parents. My parents split up when I was nine.

Yeah, especially then it was really hard because I didn't have anyone to like shoulder that with or talk to about it. And it was sort of at a time when people, not that many people were getting divorced. Like now it's just, you know, dime a dozen. Yeah, people get married and get divorced the next day. People get divorced. But I think it was. I think I really wished for siblings. I had two half-siblings, but they lived in Canada, so they were very much not a part of my upbringing. So it was really just me, my mom, and my dad in New York. I have a sister, and I can't imagine growing up without her because she was always just there.

Do you know what I mean? Like I'd wake up and I'd be like, are you awake? Play with me. That's so fun. She'd be like, oh, all right, Nicole. And then she's like, so my mom died when I was 16. So that was junior year or senior year. I don't really remember. But I do. Oh so that was junior year or senior year I don't really remember but I do

remember oh it was junior year and then senior year we got to drive to school and we each got a parking space which is insane because we were coming from the same house but she would like leave first she would wake me up and be like you have to go to school and I'd be like oh and then I was late for school every single day but like if she didn't wake me up I don't think I would have ever made it oh that's amazing and are you still close we're close-ish she lives in uh Chicago so I don't get to see her that often but I do try to like talk to her on the phone and you know keep it keep it fun keep it funky keep it fresh keep it fun and funky. I guess that's the thing that I'm, like, most jealous of people with siblings, is that they get, like, a forever friend. Mm-hmm.

Like, if things are going well. Yeah, if you get along and they're kind and they're nice and they haven't, like, robbed you. Yeah. Or, like, slept with your partner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or, like, murdered your, I don't know, best friend. Or if they're your brother-husband, you know. Boy, that got me good.

Truly, the name of the show didn't bother me until you said something. And I am actively concerned. Yeah, about that. God, that's so funny. I was just like, seeking brother husband very normal name also tlc has another insane show called milf manor have you heard of milf manor okay let me tell you about milf manor milf manor is a show where it's like eight moms

and then the dating pool is their sons and they're all at this like manor in um in mexico and they have to do things like which pair of panties belong to your mother or which chest fuck no that is a real challenge on the show i fell off because i was like this is getting a little a little weird a little disturbing um one lady revealed they were telling like deep dark sex secrets, and one lady revealed that she slept with her son's best friend. And he was like, she should have gone to the grave with that. And then he had like

a mental break. And I was like, I think they should have stopped filming and helped this child. It's insane. TLC, they want you to learn. Fuck no. Who's head of programming at TLCc i don't know and the wildest person is happening in their personal life truly out of their mind oh it's very like early 2000s television very much so and yet we're in 2023 we are. And it's still hitting.

It's still hitting. It's still good. I can't believe we're in 2023. I know. Who knew we'd live this long into the future? Not I. Not I. People born in 2000 are 23 now.

I know. And you know what's fucked? Isn't that upsetting? It's so upsetting. And like, I'll hang out with young people and be like, we're the same. You know? I'm like, yeah, this is my contemporary. I'm like, this is so cool. And then they tell me the year they were born.

And I was like, it just, I have so much indigestion. Because it is wild to think about where I was in 2000. And where they were. The house two doors down from me has teens and they have cool teen parties. And I think they're cool teen parties because a lot of teens show up and they're drinking and they're smoking. And I always walk my dog past them because I'm like, what is it like to be a teen now? I don't know. And then also I'm like, what is it like to have a house party in L.A. and like a big, beautiful house? Like, what is it like to be a teen now? I don't know. And then also I'm like, what is it like to have a house party in LA

in like a big, beautiful house? Like, what is your life? And like, are their parents allowing it? I don't think so because they have an Audi and the Audi is usually gone when there's cool teen parties. So I think the parents go away and then they just have cool teen parties.

They play a lot of Rihanna. So I'm like, they have taste. Of course. Nicole, I want you to crash one of these parties. I really want to. There was one that was like, I don't know. I don't. So, okay. Last time they had a cool teen party, I walked my dog wearing a big leopard print fur coat, leopard print Crocs and leopard print pants. Cause I was like, maybe one of those cool teens will like make fun of me. And then I'll be like, what's going on? I can't. Nobody said a word to me. No. But I'm like, you can't just walk into a cool teen party. I'm like 39, 40. I'm 62 years old and I don't want to like be thrown out because I'm like a bad old person. Do you know what I mean? But I'm like, I't want to like be thrown out because I'm like, like a bad old person.

Do you know what I mean? But I'm like, I just want to know what the cool teens are doing. No. First of all, I had a dream last night that Shailene Woodley told me she was 58 years old. And I was like, you see, you see, we're all age is a construct. It's a spectrum. What a specific dream dream it's really funny god that's so funny i'm 58 years old i was like you look unbelievable but i do i think i think they would accept you with open arms. And I think you'd be the life of the party. And I don't know. I kind of want you to give the leopard just one more go.

Right? Just like another walk around the block and be like, hey, cool teens, what's going on? First of all, cool teens are smoking intense weed. They're smoking weed that our young bodies could never have metabolized. No. When I buy weed out here, it's wild. Yeah. So they probably didn't even, they're not registering, you know, their surroundings.

I think you have to make yourself known. I think maybe you come like with a boombox of Rihanna And you do sort of a over your head. Yes. Say anything vibe. Yes. And then they'll be like, look at this cool adult in leopard print. We have to let her in the party.

I'm just like, sometimes I hear pool splashes and I'm like, it's cold. What are you doing, cool teens? I wasn't a cool teen. And I think that's why I'm so obsessed with it. I wasn't really allowed to go to parties and stuff like that. And then I didn't start drinking until, like, senior year of high school.

Or maybe it was junior. I don't know. I also didn't. I didn't drink or really party. Although my house, like, my mom was so cool that she was like, you can throw parties. And I was like, I just don't have friends, you know? I just don't have the equipment, the people, the people to come. But now I like to throw a party.

Do you like to throw a party now? Now I do because I figured it out. It's got to be in the summer. So nobody's in my house because I'm a shoes off house. And I can't expect a whole party full of people to take off their shoes. But then I'm like, what do I do? I have to like then shampoo my carpets and then like mop all the floors? No.

That's interesting. And also, I 100% understand. The beauty of Los Angeles is that you can have a backyard. Yes, and that is nice. I have a little pool. People hop in there. So you're splashing around. I bet these teens are like,

what kind of cool adult stuff is going on in that pool? I hope so. I would be so honored if any of those teens wondered what I was doing. They're just so cool. And they look old. It's wild. I know. I know you're teens, but you look so look so old oh maybe they're college teens now

i don't know i haven't kept up the thing is teens look old and for example shailene woodley looks not 58 so that's what i'm saying it's all a spectrum they're aging up so that they can look older and they're you know beating their faces and it's aging them. They're probably getting injection. I just feel like things, especially Los Angeles children. I mean, who knows what godforsaken materials are in their faces. Yeah. I can't imagine growing up here.

You grew up in New York, right? Yeah. And you grew up in Jersey? I sure did. New Jersey. New Jersey. So we were close by. I would go to New Yorkorsie. New Horsie. So we were close by. I would go to New York all the time. We were. Were you in the city

or were you in a borough? I was in Brooklyn. But my mom taught at Rutgers University. My dad wanted me to go to Rutgers because Rutgers would have been free. My mom wanted me to go to Rutgers because Rutgers would have been free for me too. Yeah, the to Rutgers because Rutgers would have been free for me too.

Yeah, the state school would have been very, very cheap slash free for my daddy. And I said, Papa, no, I have to go to New York City and go to a school that's not accredited. And he said, all right. All right, I guess I'll be in debt forever. Yeah, but Rutgers does have a good acting program it does mason gross and i gross sometimes think i should have gone but then also i'm like

oh i'm fine i don't no one's literally asked to see my degree that i don't have not a soul wait where did you go i ended up going to the American Musical and Dramatic Academy. It was very bad. Some people call it scamda. And to that I say, you're on to something. I truly learned nothing there. I learned more at, like, UCB and collaborating with people and, like, making videos, like like actually doing the shit and like studying.

But you went to a good school. According to my research that I did not do, but my assistant did, you went to Tisch and then you went to Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts in London. London. Well, that was a part.

I, I, it was a part of like Tisch. It was my senior year of Tisch. I went to London and, and did, and did RADA. Well, that was a part. It was a part of like Tish. It was my senior year of Tish. I went to London and did Rada. But I wouldn't call Tish. What did you call it? A very good school. A very good school. It is a very good school. It's up there with like, isn't it up there with like Yale? Yale's drama school?

Hell no. Juilliard's drama school. Yale's drama school. Hell no. Juilliard's drama school. Okay, Tish's grad school for drama is up there with those things. But I was just a little underground boo-boo. I mean, underground.

I studied in the underground. Undergrad. I was in the subways. I was acting in the subway. Yeah. No, but, you know, acting school in general is... It's a lot of massage trains. It is. It's a lot of like touchy-feely massage trains and then like bark like a dog and don't be embarrassed about it. Like really howl like a dog. And you're like, okay, when will this ever

come in use? Okay. Can I tell you something, Nicole? I just acted in Ari Aster's new movie. You know, he did like Midsommar and Hereditary. He's like a total genius. And I had to bark like a dog. And I did think about my acting school training. Because you think in those moments, I will never do this again.

You never have to bark like a dog. And I sure as fuck did. And then you had to bark like a dog. I did. That's really funny. And I barked good. I barked good. I'm sure you did.

Oh my God. I wonder when my time will come where I get to go. Also, I guess I get it. It's like bark like a dog and don't giggle at the end, which I think I'd have some trouble with. My favorite thing to watch is people breaking character, like people giggling in a scene. It's so much fun. And I love when people giggle in scenes.

Me too. It's the stuff life is made of. Oh, acting's fun. We get to do something that's really fun. Really fun. We're very lucky. Really fun. Very lucky. You know very lucky. Really fun. Very lucky. You know, blessed. Booked, busy, blessed. You know.

Wait. Zoe, we've come to the end. I could truly talk to you forever. You're so nice. Same, same. You're so nice. I can't wait to come to your summertime pool party if I'm invited. I will invite you.

Yes, that will be fun. And I think if I'm there, I might go down the block and just like ring a bell. It's not far. It's literally two houses down from me. I can show you the house and I would love for you to knock on the door. Oh, find out what those cool teens are doing. I'm going to invite them over. I think there should be sort of a merging of the parties. Oh my goodness. Cool teens at my house. I like don't even know how to talk to teens. I met a 13 year old a couple of weeks ago and I said, so what are you like in school or something? And all of the adults around me were like, Nicole, what? I was like, I don't know. We don't have anything in common. Like, are you in school? That's an amazing.

Common. Like, are you in school? That's an amazing. I think you should say that also, like, in dating. That's a great line. So, what are you? Are you in school or something? What do you do? What are you? You got a job or something? Yeah. What are you? You like work? You live somewhere or something? Everyone's like, what is wrong with her? Zoe, we've come to the end. What would you like to promote? Zoe, we've come to the end. What would you like to promote? I would love for everyone to watch Slip on the Roku channel, April 21st. You can stream all seven episodes. You can watch it for free at therokuchannel.com.

Ooh, that's nice. Is Roku, wait, Roku's the device, not an app. Or is it an app? So Roku is now creating original content. So it is both a device and an app. There we go. Cleared it up for everyone who didn't know, specifically me. Okay. If you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me, you can can um i don't know give it five stars on apple podcast or if you want you can write me something real horny hitting on me and i will read it and you can send it to why won't you date me podcast at gmail.com and remember shorter is better because these are getting long okay this person said i'm a gay man who truly loves and admires your pussy. Oh, but honestly, doesn't want to go anywhere near it. Okay. But instead, we'll challenge you to a blowjob competition to see who the true throat goat is. We will wear our sluttiest underwear and knee pads to see who can swallow the most cum in 24 hours. in 24 hours. There will be a line around the block. And down the street

with guys just waiting to fill our tummies with sweet, sweet schlong jelly. Ew. A revolving door of dicks giving us throat yogurt. Ew.

Just a parade of hard cocks waiting to shoot their penis coladas in our mouths. At the end of the day, we will count up the servicemen and see who takes home

the cock gobbler crown. Best of luck, boo. I really didn't like throat yogurt. Throat yogurt. I would say that was also my least favorite of the bunch. But that was nice. I like ones that make me upset. And that one did it.

Okay. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. That's it for Why Won't You Date Me? With me, Nicole Byer. Why Won't You Date Me? is produced and engineered by, oh, the sweetest woman I know, Marissa Melnick.

It is executive produced by other wonderful people, Adam Sachs, Joanna Solotaroff, and Jeff Ross. Thanks for listening. I love you. Thank you so much. We'll be seeing you next Friday with a brand new episode. What a dream. What a dream.

Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. This has been a Team Coco production.