Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - How Your Attachment Style Predicts Your Dating Disasters (w/ Dating Coach Sabrina Zohar)

Episode Date: February 14, 2025

Happy Valentine's Day! Dating coach Sabrina Zohar joins Nicole for a deep dive into attachment styles and how they shape our love lives. Are you anxiously attached, always seeking reassurance and fearing abandonment? Or are you more avoidant, pulling away when things get too close? Sabrina breaks down the key differences, explaining how both styles stem from a common fear of rejection- and how recognizing your patterns can help you build healthier relationships.They discuss how to stop spiraling, set boundaries, manage emotional dysregulation, and choose self-love over external validation. Plus, Sabrina shares her personal experiences and expert strategies to help you rewire your attachment style and create connections that feel safe, stable, and fulfilling.WATCH this episode at youtu.be/WgrjHKyk57oLearn more about Sabrina Zohar at sabrinazohar.com.Write to Nicole! Send your dirty messages to [e-mail] with the subject line "Dirty Message" and Nicole may read it in a future episode.Follow:YouTube: @WhyWontYouDateMePodcastTikTok: @whywontyoudatemepod Instagram: @nicolebyerX: @nicolebyerNicole's book: indiebound.org/book/9781524850746To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts:Arya: Visit arya.fyi and use code DATEME for 15% off today!NordVPN: Get the exclusive NordVPN deal now at nordvpn.com/DATEME Try risk-free with the 30-day money-back guarantee!BetterHelp: This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/DATEME and get on your way to being your best self.Equip: To learn more about Equip's virtual eating disorder treatment, visit Equip.Health/dateme.DraftKings: New players can play five bucks to get a spin on the mystery wheel for a shot at up to TWO THOUSAND in Casino Credits! Download the app and sign up with code DATEME.Audience Survey: ​​Go to GUM.FM/DATEME to fill out our audience survey.View all of our sponsors and discounts codes at wwydm.notion.site/sponsorsThis is a Headgum podcast. Follow Headgum on Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok. Advertise on Why Won't You Date Me? via Gumball.fm.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Love the podcast? You'll love seeing even more of it on video! Watch this full episode on YouTube. Just check the description for the link. Subscribe so you don't miss out. New video episodes drop every Friday. This is a HeadGum Podcast. Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why. Oh baby, welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me?

A podcast where me and Nicole Byer has been trying to figure out why I was so single even though you could come in my eye and tell me it was eye drops. My guest today is a dating coach who has dedicated herself to helping people improve their dating lives, strengthen their relationships, and build a better understanding of themselves. And it's our Valentine's Day episode, so I wanted to bring in an expert who can help us all make sense of this crazy thing called love. It's Sabrina Zohar! My cheeks are going to hurt by the time I walk out of this place.

I am going to be in tears. I am so fucking excited to be here. I'm so excited. So I found you on Instagram and you were talking about Attachment styles and I recently discovered I'm anxiously attached Oh my god, welcome. It's awful. Yeah, when someone is not texting me I go they hate me Okay, they want to leave me They don't want to date me anymore. It's a wrap.

And then I'll get a text that's like, can't wait to see you tonight. And I'm like, OK. They don't hate me. Everything is fine. How are you attached? Oh, god. Anxiously.

So I was like the poster child for it. I was telling a story earlier where I was like, I remember a guy ended it with me after three dates, and I sent him 173 texts because I couldn't sit with the v- like, just nonstop, back and forth, just 173 texts because I couldn't sit with him. Like just nonstop, back and forth, just like, please, please don't leave me, please don't do this. So like, can I just?

I, 173 is how you say excessive. Just a little bit. It's too... I don't know, to me it was, no I'm kidding, but it was normal to me at the time because I was so, because like the common misconception even when we're talking about attachment styles is like, oh, anxious folks...

It's like, no, anxious people are also avoidant. Avoidant people are also anxious. Because as my anxious ass was running around town, I was avoiding looking at myself, what's coming up for me, what's causing this. I'm not... This is a generalized statement, of course. But it's just, I think a lot of people think, oh, no, avoidance should shut down, and they just don't feel.

And it's like, no, they're just super anxious. They don't know how to articulate that. Interesting. I know. It's the dark side of the attachments. Interesting. I read this book, I didn't finish it. It's called Calling in the One. Have you heard of it? I haven't. Go on. So it's the lady who coined consciously uncoupling

for Gwyneth Paltrow. Of course. But it's like, a lot of the book is, what are you making up? And what have you made up that is now coming true because you've made it up? And I think a lot for me, because I was like, oh my God,

I'm making up all this stuff, is because I was like avoiding stuff. Exactly. Which is really interesting, because that really didn't hit me till right now. Yeah. Because the way that we look at it, it's like, okay, so if I'm getting right texting,

we'll use that because it's such a great place to jump off and it's the goddamn hill I will die on. So when we're super anxious, what ends up happening is hypervigilance. And hypervigilance is you're constantly scanning for safety. Yes. And for me personally, I learned that with my childhood. My father was so inconsistent, so and now.

We had a very traumatic childhood. So I was hypervigilant to watch his facial expressions, what's he saying, what's the tonality, is there gonna be an issue, right? That kept me safe for a long time and that did its job. But it's not fucking doing it anymore, right? Here I am as an adult being like, but why won't you date me?

And it's like, cause this person knew you for an hour and you're already asking them like what their social security number is. Like the pinch doesn't match the ouch. So when we really start to strip it down, it's like, okay. So when we think about the texting, right? What ends up happening is dysregulated. So that happens, your body, it's a trigger, right?

Oh my God, I'm not safe. And so it goes right into like scan for safety. So when we hear the like, they don't like me, they don't want me, that's anxiety. Cause anxiety's job is to recreate your core belief and to convince you that that's what's happening here. So you need to be safe and you need that text. But when we regulate our nervous system,

we come back to our bodies and we're like, wait a minute, I don't know this person that well, right? I've had like one date with them. Right, when we can really start to challenge that. But to your point, if we're not introspectively looking at things, then we are avoiding looking at what's coming up for us, what's happening in my body, what's the narrative,

what's going on. And then we're held in a handbasket because that person didn't text you for 20 minutes, and next thing you know, you're like on the floor crying. You get the text, you pop up, and you're like, I'm good. Yes, and you feel unhinged. Like, because you're living it, and that's the ups and downs. But then when you look back at it, you're like,

wait, why was I like that? Like, I dated somebody and we were both anxiously attached, but I also think they were a little bit more avoidant. And both of us would call incessantly. Yeah. And like, we'd have like five missed calls each from each other, and then like voice mail is like, I guess you didn't want to pick up your phone. I guess I'll go walk into traffic, which is the thing I said all the time to this person, which in hindsight is not okay. So you know what you're describing?

What? Protest behavior. Right, I know. So protest behavior is just that like, fine, I'll just go do this because what you're doing is, I want you to fight for me. Come and tell me that you're going to be here for me. So I will have a tantrum, essentially.

I will protest. And protest behavior can also be like stonewalling, shutting down. There are different ways it comes out, but really they're like, I'm done. I can't do this. Like, I'll just go do this. Because you're hoping, right?

What's the hope? That they'll come back and be like, no, don't go do that. I'll do this with you. I'm coming to hold her hand. And then what's happening, core belief gets reaffirmed, see, no one likes me, no one wants me. And it's like, those coping mechanisms were keeping you safe,

but they're actually what's causing these people to run away. So it's not really working anymore. This is wild. How did you get into, cause you went to musical theater school. I was the former hot mess. Like I was her, I was 173 techs.

Like I just, I outed myself, but I was the poster hot mess. Like, I was her. I was 173 techs. I just... I outed myself. But I was the poster child for anxious attachment. Like, narcissistic father, people-pleasing mother. I learned from a young age, like, emotions are not safe. You're too much. You're too big. There's something wrong with you. My father was just like, just a fucking asshole. Like, there was no other way to say this.

And so for me, that messaging was really, really messed up. So I was contact. I used my body to connect with men. You tell me, jump, I say how high, I had no boundaries, you text me, I'll never forget. Oh my God, when I was 19, yeah. I lived in these village at the time. And I was, I was, and like, I was working in a salon. So I was studying in school.

I was kind of trying to figure myself out. And I was dating a DJ, as one does in New York. Got to date a DJ, baby. Feather in the old cap, little noodle. And he got off work at like 3 in the morning and he texts me, come over. And guess who got dressed? Left in the middle of the street, walked 10 blocks in New York at 3 in the morning

to go hook up with this guy for him to then tell me to leave because he had an early morning. And I dragged my ass back. And I remember just being like, wow, that felt like crap, but I wonder if he's gonna like me. Yeah. And just constantly self-abandoning, instead of being like, no, thank you, that doesn't work for me. So I was the epitome of that anxiety,

and I was riddled with it. And so I went to musical theater school and was like, that's... don't try to be somebody else, girl. Why? You gotta figure out you first. It's funny, you told that story and I was like, yikes! And then I immediately was like, you've done that. You've done that. You've left friends.

I've said out loud, I'm so sorry, I know we're having a really great time, but this man just texted me and I gotta go. I simply can't be here. Girl, I faked that my roommate was locked out of her apartment at work once so I could go and hook up with a guy and then come back and then let... Dedication. Yeah, thank you.

I like the reframe of, this bitch is dedicated. Dedication. But that's how I was so desperate for someone to choose me. I just wanted you to tell me that you liked me, right? And so what ends up happening is like, that's also called repetition compulsion so what ends up happening is like, that's also called repetition compulsion. And repetition compulsion is like,

you know, Freud did some nice things and that's one of them. And essentially it just means you're going to keep dating the parts of you that are unhealed. So you're gonna continue to date people, not you, the proverbial you, that are like your father, right?

So if I can get this guy to say that I'm not too much, then all of that could see my dad was wrong. And then all that ends up happening is you're like, oh, never mind, they were right. And then it reaffirms your core belief. So for me, went to school, did all that, started my clothing line. I have a clothing line called software, and I was supposed to do Shark Tank. And so like I was not into any of this. I was doing my mental health shit.

I was on my own journey, right? I was doing me. And they sent me home on set. And after 10 hours of waiting, like, you know, the game, and I was crushed. Like, I was in a really dark place mentally. And they did that again, like a month later. And I was just like, I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life.

And so I started posting on TikTok, just like, hey, am I the only one struggling with like this clickbait shit? They'll like, do this to get this, send this text. And I'm like, he wants me to come over, but that's the extent of it, right? Like sending this text. And it felt really inauthentic.

And so I started to just turn to the internet of like, hey, are there people going through this? And sharing my experiences. And then my dog passed away and I just, I completely lost myself. Like that was the end of it. And when you lose, you know, to me, that was like the biggest thing. And I told my dad to fuck off all in that same timeframe. Oh my God.

Which was huge, right? I had a lot of loss. A lot of changes. My nervous system did not know how to acclimate. And so I broke up with this guy I was dating, like complete, just I'm done. Came to San Diego to see my sister, met my now partner who's with us, and just realized like at that time,

I was like, I'm gonna commit to this. And I started, then I started my podcast. I just started to sit in this and understand myself better. Started taking courses, understanding the nervous system, neuroscience, and then voila, here's your girl. But that also came with a lot of experience to show, oh, you can go from this, utilize all of these things, and then come out an earned, secure person.

You don't have to let anxiety ruin your life. Is it a conscious thing that you have to do every day to be like, I will react like a normal human being and not be insane? Or has it come naturally to you now that it's a part of your practice? Oh my god, no. Just before, even earlier, we were late to something and even my partner, he was like, I don't love the way you're talking to yourself.

And I was like, am I? Right? Like you don't even, it's because it's so subconscious. Like how many times I've stopped myself and been like, whose voice is that? I'm like, oh, that's your dad. That's not yours. You don't believe that about yourself. But when we think about how do you do this day to day,

one thing I would say is start getting really used to asking yourself, how do I feel in my body? What are the sensations? What's coming up for me right now? And you're like, oh, wow, yeah, I'm sweating. Or my shoulders are tense. Then asking yourself, how old do I feel in this moment? Yeah, so the how old do I feel in this moment

will really help. So let's say for instance, the guy doesn't text you, right? And it's like 20 minutes goes by and you're like, okay, the pinch doesn't match the ouch. I don't know this person, right? Cognitively I can understand that, but you're dysregulated.

So your brain is going, you know, if you and I were having a conversation and someone with a knife came up, we're not gonna be able to focus on our needs. We're gonna be focusing on getting the fuck out of here. So when you're dysregulated, it's the same thing, but there's no threat. So your body doesn't know what to do

because it's trying to protect you, but there's nothing to protect you from. Interesting. Right, I know. So by just tapping in even and being like, what's coming up for me? Oh, I'm dysregulated. Okay, I'm gonna go for a walk.

I'm not gonna respond. That's what I do now. Whenever I feel wild or like I'm sitting and making things up, I'm like, how about I go walk my poor dog? He loves a walk and we don't do them long enough. He's little, so he shits really quick. And I'm like, oh, we should go back inside, right?

But when I'm like, ah, let's just take a big long walk. And then I do a thing where I'm like, what is true? What have I made up? And is what I'm making up true? No, I made it up. Okay, you could go back home now and you're fine. But sometimes I'm like, Jesus Christ,

I wish I didn't have to take a 20 minute walk to like be fine about things. As you do it more and more, your nervous system, because what it is, you're expanding your window of tolerance. And the window of tolerance essentially is like, when you eat big, right, every little thing, right? Think of like a stock market, peaks and valleys up and down. When you expand your window of tolerance. And the window of tolerance essentially is like when you eat big, right, every little thing, right? Think of like a stock market peaks and valleys up and down.

When you expand the window of tolerance, your nervous system is able to handle the ebbs and flows. Because the reality is you're not gonna be able to get rid of what happened to you, right? So whatever happened, wherever that is along the journey that caused these anxieties, well, I can't change that. But what I can change is my reaction to them. What I can change is, wait a minute, this is not dad.

I'm not dating my mother or father. I'm in this body, right? So like, okay, going for a walk, I love that. You can add something else to it. So you can add when you go outside, first, like even just stand there and be like, okay, like wiggle your toes, like feel your body. And then what I like to do is called scan for safety.

And if you move your head from left to right at a very slow pace, because you're giving your body, and start to call out three things that you see, what that does is it brings you back into the present moment. So let's say I'm looking here and I'd be like, oh, I love, yeah, there's my favorite pillow. Oh my God, my neighbor's house, right? And what you're doing is you're turning your prefrontal cortex on to go, oh, she's here right now. You're challenging your thoughts. Then as you start to walk, you can start using the five, four, three, two, one.

Five things I see, four things I touch, three things I smell. Doing these little things, what they do is they break the loops. Because when you start to get on that spiral of like, what's wrong with me? That can go all day because that's your core belief. But when we break that and we bring it to now and then go, yeah, what facts do I have to back this thought up? I don't, I guess I did make that up.

Okay, do I have a contrary belief? Yeah, if he's at work, right? Like, he couldn't text me because he's at work. He's working. He's a human being with a job. Exactly. And the biggest thing to anybody that's listening is the one thing that we need to let go of is shame and blame. There is no place in it that's like, because you're being insane,

because what you're doing is you're talking to yourself in the way that people talk to you. And then you're just reaffirming that. So instead, it's like, I can hold space and say, hey, given everything I've been through, this would cause me a lot of anxiety, but I do know that I'm safe in my own body and I have my own back, and I will handle this

and I'll talk to this person if there's an issue. Boy, oh boy. How long did it take you to get like this? Eight years. Okay, that's not that long. That's not terrible. No. From 173 texts to...

That's just the headline. Wait, how long were you dating? You said three dates? Like, three to five. Like, it was very light, but to me it was abandonment, right? Please don't leave me. There's something wrong with me. You're my wife.

And here's the funny thing. I saw him maybe like two years later. I was so not into him. That's what always happens. Like, I recently just saw someone on Instagram that I used to, like, see, and I was like, why was I so hung up on this person? Why did I like them so much? But I think you just become, like, really addicted to, like, wanting to be liked

and wanting to be loved or whatever. And you have a video where it's like, do I like this person, or do I just want them to like me? And boy, oh boy, I was like, oh, God. That's me. Especially in the like, am I waiting to be chosen or do I choose myself? Right, like does this satisfy my needs? The one question I'm like, get out of here

of how do I feel about this person? I don't give a shit, feelings aren't, they're not facts. How do I feel with this person? Right, do I feel regulated? Oh, I feel so safe with this person. Wow, yeah, like I can say anything and they're super calm, right? Or the green flags are like, they listen to me with this person. Wow, yeah, like I can say anything and they're super calm, right?

Or the green flags are like, they listen to me. They make eye contact. Like, how sad. Those are the green flags, right? Right, we have to be like, oh, yay, look for that. And you're like, common decency, but it's been lost. It's a lost art because we're stuck on our phones. We're constantly in a place that's outside of right now.

And if we can bring ourselves back to now and just fucking enjoy this moment, like I met my partner, we hooked up on the first date, and I left being like, man, I'm never gonna see him again. You know? And I was just honest, I was like, ah, this guy. And the reason that I walked out, I was like, because I didn't want to have expectations.

And I was like, I'm gonna enjoy this moment. I'm a woman, I have needs, I had sexual desires, I acted on them, I had a great time. If we do this again, hip, hip, hooray. And if not, I climbed that tree and it was a great time. If we do this again, hip, hip, hooray. And if not, I climbed that tree and it was a great time. But when you release control to the outcome and you really just surrender,

you can then be in the moment to be like, cool, they're in addition to my life, they're not instead of my life. And that really brings us back to now of like, oh shit, I've got such a beautiful life. You are lucky to join me, not the other way around. Yes, and that is a hard thing that I've been like trying to wrap my mind around.

Like being like, oh, this person is an addition to my life and not like, oh, I give up everything and I'm with you and I do everything you want me to do. It's very hard to maintain yourself. I feel like when you're trying, my shoulders are real tense. Yeah. I feel like they're right at my ear. Exactly, and it's like, and even that, it's like,

okay, so your body is telling you like, whoa, this feels uncomfortable. And it's like, that's normal, because you're a human. And so instead, like a lot of people would be like, oh, okay, just whoo. And it's like, no, tighten it. Ugh, okay. And then come back.

Because what's happening is what's happening, and your body is going, there's too much energy, I don't know what to do with this. I have to, so it tenses up. And if we can sit with that and then release it, like that's such a beautiful technique. I have had troll, I mean, we all know what the trolls on the internet look like and sound like,

and I've gotten that, my friend will be like, punch the air, punch the fucking troll, and I'm like, what do they say? How do they, I feel like, oh my God. Everything you say, it's like, take it with a grain of salt or like, what up, like you're not being like, this is how, because I feel like even in the videos,

you're like, this isn't just a blanket statement. There's nuance. Yes. I get that. You're aggressive, you talk too fast. Why do you have to say fuck so often? That's like, fuck off. Right, like, because I'm from New York.

Because you're having a nice time. It shows a sign of intelligence. But it's really just because you have to remember too, like I'm very triggering, right? Like I put you to like, hey, face it. And instead of going, mm, yeah, that makes me uncomfortable, no, you change. That's actually a really big sign

of anxious attachment style, is anxious attachers, when they're so uncomfortable in their current situation, they'll try to change the external instead of understanding the internal. And what's the one thing we have no control over? Everything else but us. Yeah, I dated a person who I was like,

hey, I think you need therapy. And they were like, I think I do too person who I was like, hey, I think you need therapy. And they were like, I think I do too. And I was like, so you go? And they were like, no, no, it's just gonna get worse from here. And I said, ooh, okay, sign me up, I'll stay. And in hindsight, I was trying to control the outside stuff, so, cause I was like,

if you do this one thing, everything will be fixed, as opposed to being like oh, yeah, maybe they need therapy or whatever but we aren't fundamentally a good fit right and That's a hard thing for me because I also did this other guy and it was it had been like three months He openly was like I don't like you without saying it like I'm a late person He was like that's really fucking annoying. You're always so late. Da da da da. What were you doing?

And I'd be like, ha ha ha, it's funny I'm late. And there's a part of you and it's like, because there's probably a part of you that's like, that's how I deserve to be treated, right? Like, yeah, yeah. You're like, I'm bad. I'm late. So it's like, oh yeah, you get to be mean about it.

But even though I was like, this man does not like me. I was like, hey, do you want to be exclusive? And he was like, I don't know. I don't, I'm not mean about it. But even though I was like, this man does not like me, I was like, hey, do you want to be exclusive? And he was like, I don't know. I'm not really feeling it. And I was like, oh, okay. We go out some more. Yeah, you're like, just go slow then. As opposed to just being like, he's saying no.

And you know in your heart that this is a no. Why can't you just like walk away? But is that a part of anxious attache or you don't want to walk away from things? Absolutely, because there's a, how dare I walk away, But is that a part of anxious attachment where you don't want to walk away from things? Absolutely, because there's a, how dare I walk away, right? We have to think about,

when we think about anxious attachment, that's an inconsistent caregiver. So you're like, I'll do anything to keep you. I just don't want you to leave me. And it's like, okay, well, let's talk about abandonment for a second. When we say that about, they abandoned me. It's like, what does that actually mean?

Abandoning means that your life would be at risk. Oh. Yeah, so somebody truly, like true definition of abandonment. Look, an example I always use is if you're out, you know, hunter-gatherers, right? If we were out in the fucking wild and my tribe left me, I can literally be abandoned. I could be eaten by the animals. I couldn't sustain myself. You are not abandoned because you had one date with somebody and they didn't call you back, right? Yeah.

But we feel that because what happens is, let's talk neuroscience. We have two parts of the brain I'm really going to refer to. Prefrontal cortex, stop growing at 28. back, right? But we feel that because what happens is, let's talk neuroscience, we have two parts of the brain I'm really going to refer to. Prefrontal cortex stopped growing at 28. So 28 on, ever notice how like high schoolers, you can tell them like not to drink and drive and they're like, and then they do it anyways. They don't have the cognitive critical thinking skills to be like, wait, how is that going to impact me? I don't think this is a great idea. Let me think of future me. It's just impulse. So when we get dysregulated, that goes offline. My friend, Britt Franks, is a brilliant neuropsychotherapist,

and she describes it like an office building. At the top are all the fancy executives, and everything else is like the inmates running the asylum. And at the bottom floor, there's the firefighters that protect everything. When we get dysregulated, all the top functioning and all the good shit goes offline and completely shuts off. So where do we go then? We go back into our amygdala,

which is the limbic part of our brain, which stopped growing when you were six. That's where we hold onto fears and emotions. So going back to the, how old do I feel question, when I get dysregulated, prefrontal cortex shuts down. So you went back to being a kid again, being like, that's okay, yeah, yeah, tell me how to jump, and I'll say how high, like you just tell me

whatever you need, because that's what you learned as childhood, because your prefrontal cortex completely shut offline and was just saying just survive get them to choose you So when we regulate and come back to now and go wait a minute, but I do I choose you Asking a question turns it back on to then be like, oh wait, fuck this guy. I don't fucking choose him. He sucks This is so wild that you had to go to school to specifically learn this I feel like someone should tell you in high school, hey, you're gonna be all fucked up till 28. I know.

I'm like, they don't teach us our taxes in school, right? I'm like, but you taught me how, like, X plus, I don't fucking remember. Yeah, I don't know. The only thing that I really retain from school is the multiplication tables of nine, because you do with your fingies. Oh. So nine times five is 45.

Four, five. Nine times three is 27. Okay, so now I'm learning new things. That's really cool. It's never gonna help me. It's never gonna help me. Never at all. I remember being told I wasn't allowed

to go to the bathroom, which is really messed up. That's weird. I don't understand why they do that in school It's like I have to use the bathroom So now I have to ask you get a key maybe sit down for a little bit and then I get to go Just let me go in school. We had to get them to sign our book. I'm like I could bring the book to the bathroom I was like, what am I gonna use this thing for? Yeah, what am I gonna do smoke in the bathroom? Yes, that's what I did in high school

You're like actually though But I wished like more than ever I wish they taught us this in high school. You're like, actually, though. But I wish, like more than ever, I wish they taught us this stuff in school. It would be nice. And then I ask them, like, you think they'd retain it, though? No, not at all. But I do feel like if someone in high school was like, you get dysregulated, and that causes you

to have reactions to things, I feel like I'd be like, oh, I'm dysregulat- I think I would remember the word dysregulated. Right. And we also have to remember, too, I feel like I'd be like, oh, I'm dysregulated. I think I would remember the word dysregulated. Right. You know? And we also have to remember too, it's like, where do we learn all this at home? Right? So for me, my father doesn't believe in,

no, he's a narcissist, he doesn't believe in therapy. So what am I gonna do? Go home and be like, dad, guess what I learned? And he's gonna be like, that's stupid. Oh, okay. So what we see is just our environments, right? Whatever it is. And like, I think the common misconception I hear is like,

I have so much anxiety, but I had the best childhood. And it's like, those are not mutually exclusive. You can have amazing caregivers. Like, I would set myself on fire for my mom. I love this woman more than the ends of the earth. That bitch failed me as a child. You know what I mean? I love her, but she was not the parent I needed her to be.

She didn't teach me the things I need. She got walked all over by my father. So, when we look at that, it's like, oh, right, yeah, where did I learn that from? That was my first encounter for everything. So, how would I have even known anything different? How would I have known anything? Yeah, I watched this TED Talk, and by watched,

I mean, I skipped around. The man said that, uh, when you're, like, looking for relationships, you're looking to create the first relationship that you saw, which is usually your parents. And I was like, oh, that's fucked up. That's so fucked up. My dad really, he was smart. He was an engineer and stuff,

and he really wanted me to like math and stuff like that. And it's not like I felt like I was rejected. I guess I felt like I was rejected because I was more into the arts or whatever. So I feel like I've taken that into dating, being like, hey, you're gonna reject me and I'm gonna win you over. And it's gonna be really cool.

And after watching that, I was like, well, fuck. How do you, but then how do you get out of the cycle of looking for what you saw as a kid. Right, so we can use hypotheticals, right? So let's say for instance, and even as you're describing that, it's like, that's a perfect example of like, your dad wasn't a bad guy, right?

Like he didn't do that to hurt you, but what's the messaging, right? A little frittata brain when you're fucking two and it's not formed, what that says is, okay, do this and dad will be there for you, right? It doesn't mean that he didn't accept you for who you are, but the messaging might've been, no, do this. So what does that teach me? Who I be there for you, right? It doesn't mean that he didn't accept you for who you are, but the messaging might have been, no, do this. So what does that teach me?

Who I am isn't accepted, right? Like they don't approve of me for who I am. So even just understanding that of being able to say, I love my parents, but they taught me things that weren't necessarily accurate. So how I would suggest really doing that is like, again, let me back up. How I would suggest doing that is a couple of things.

One, I would get a journal. And in that journal, you have a trigger journal and you have a glimmer journal. In the trigger journal, pen to paper is a different part of the brain that gets activated. In the trigger journal, every single time you get triggered, you write it down, right? So he didn't text me, boop.

Okay, what happened? My chest started to tighten, I was sweating. Okay, what was my narrative? There's something wrong with me. This person doesn't like me. That's it, right? Because it's important to start to be aware of like, oh, that's where my thoughts keep going.

That's the routine. That's the pattern. I'm not good enough. I'm not worried, right? Insert the core belief here. Then we have a glimmer part of it. But today, I said no to somebody instead of saying, yes, I'm proud of myself. Because it's important for us to not just look at the patterns but to also look at the wins, right?

Micro yeses and so because we have to think about the nervous system if you just think about New Year's resolutions, right? I'm gonna I'm gonna lose a hundred pounds. I'm gonna grow out my hair I'm gonna do all that you last a day cuz you're like it's too big of a jump I'm going from I literally never left my house to all of a sudden. I'm gonna go out to bars Right, like it's not sustainable. So we wanna look at this healing journey as like a very small micro yes. So if that means normally, for instance, I would freak out and text this person

a thousand times for me, then today I'm gonna say, I'm gonna put a minute in between and set my clock and I'm not gonna say anything. That's just expanding and you sit in that discomfort of like, this feels awful. I don't like this feeling. Okay, where is it in my body?

I feel like I'm gonna come out of my skin. Okay, just sit with it. Sit with it, it takes 90 seconds for an emotion to run its course. But when we're- Wait, it takes how long? 90 seconds. To actually, right now, let's say you were feeling sad.

If I had you close your eyes and just sit with the emotion, after 90 seconds, you'd be like, oh, I feel a lot better. But what happens is the narrative starts that clock. So every time I don't feel worthy, you just start that all over again and you ruminate. So then if like, oh wow, okay, I sat in this right now, I felt this in my body, how old did I feel? I felt like a kid again, like I felt like I was trying to get my dad to approve of me.

Shit, so that's the part of me that's trying to come out. Like I love parts work, IFS. And so, okay, that's the part of me that's trying to protect me. Okay, so what is this thought trying to protect me from now? I don't want this person to leave me. Okay. Well, but this person's not dad. They're not going to leave you. You notice how we can start to, with compassion and love, discredit those thoughts and come back to, okay, I'm not gonna say anything. I'm gonna allow this. And it's just, it's micro movements that over time, people think in therapy these big aha moments.

Yeah, it's nice, but that's not what heals you. What heals you is the decisions that you make after that. I know. That's wild. That's real wild. The choices. This. That is interesting. I never think about it like that because sometimes I'll have like epiphanies and I'm like, wow! But then I'll forget my epiphany and then be like, wait, this is bad again.

And I'm like, oh yeah, my epiphany. And they're like, wait, what? The epiphanies are amazing. And they hold a place. But I remember I started to change the way I dated. I'll never forget, I was dating this guy and he was super emotionally unavailable, but I couldn't tell at first.

He was very, I'll never forget, he was so well rehearsed that my best friend, she was in town, she met him when he dropped me off at my house after our fifth date. And she looked at me and she said, either this is your husband or we're getting fucking played. And I was like, we'll find out. She's long story short, it only took like another month

for me to realize it. He like was out of town, he came back in, blah, blah, blah, we were together. He like stayed at a hotel that night instead of staying with me. It was very clear there was an issue. The old me would have completely self-abandoned and been like, please just come back, what can we do?

No, he showed up at my house, I had his suitcase packed and he just looked at me and he goes, babe, you know I'm emotionally unavailable. And I said, oh, I know. Now get the fuck off my porch. Wait, he said to you, you know I'm emotionally unavailable? Yeah. That's wild to have the self-awareness, but then continue a relationship with somebody. As if I were to be like, that's fine. Come on in. Let me make you emotional.

That's where I realized, like, I can't change this. I cannot. This is above my pay grade. You need to work on your shit. And so I told him to get the fuck out. And that was it, we didn't speak. That moment changed the way I dated. Because in that moment, I was like, you just did something so scary, you stood up for yourself. And you're alive, you're okay. Oh my God.

And so then it becomes, and you do it again, right? And you're like, you start, that's how you build confidence. You're like, yeah, I didn't text them today, score, right? That's how you build it over time because then you start to retrain your nervous system to be like, that's not a fear of mine anymore. Boy, oh boy, that's wild. I once dated a man for a very long time who was like,

I don't wanna be in a relationship. And I said, oh, okay, well, what do you want? And he's like, I just wanna see where this goes. Now go the flow. And I said, oh, okay, well, what do you want? And he's like, I just want to see where this goes. Now go the flow. And it went so far. And we were like talking about moving in together and stuff. And I was like, but you're not even my boyfriend. And that was just like in the back of my brain.

But I wish I had the wherewithal in that moment to be like, oh, if you don't want a relationship and I do, then we want different things and we shouldn't be doing this. But I did learn a lot. Right. And what happens is like, you didn't stand up for your needs and that's okay.

Right? Like totally. We can look back at that, Nicole, and be like, you didn't know better. And I am, I self-abandoned. I'm so sorry I wasn't there for you. We don't need to shame and blame. But having that compassion of like, oh, she really just wanted to be chosen.

But now I get to make decisions. And that's why we regulate our nervous system. Not because people think that regulating is just like, oh, it just goes away. No, I'm still sad, I'm just regulating. You still have to work on it. Just what it means is I have a choice. When I get to regulate and I come back,

I think I'm no longer in survival, right? I'm no longer, I have to do this, I have to run. Instead it's wait, I get to make a choice here. And right? I'm no longer, I have to do this, I have to run. Instead it's, wait, I get to make a choice here. And in that moment you could say, you might not want a relationship, I do. So I'm gonna stand in that power. And it's, remember, if I don't stand for something,

I fall for everything. Huh, that's good. If I don't stand up for myself, who will? No one is going to stand up for me like I will. God, I love this. Wait, we do have to take a break. ["Draft Kings Casino Theme Song"] Buffalo!

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I was like, that's me. But there's anxious, avoidant. So there's three insecure, well, it's one of those things that there's like three insecure, one secure. Then there's all these amalgamations people have come up with and it's like, just stick with the fucking three. So, secure is what we all, insecure, I think,

so the book attached pictured 50% of the population is secure, that has been debunked. Yeah, I don't think so. Not by a lawn shot. But what does secure really mean? I have one girlfriend ever that I met who is truly the most secure human being I've ever met. Two parents that were incredibly loving, held space for their kids,

let them, taught them that emotions were safe. Taught them that there were, as a place for them and their thoughts, right? They were there and they showed them what independence and interdependence looks like. What's interdependence? Relationship. Co-creating. Oh, okay. Yeah, so like we can be together, but then I can also have my space away from you, right? And I can go, she was a beautiful model, like I said, from her just her looks,

because there's plenty of insecurities that can come. Every time, any guy, because she wasn't scared to lose them. She would be like, you're lucky to have me, it's not the other way around, baby. Oh boy. Right? And it didn't come from arrogance on her part. She was just really authentic of like, this doesn't work for me. Because she just wasn't scared, she had so much support. And that's a beautiful thing, but very rarely do we see that.

Then we have the three insecure attachments. So, but very rarely do we see that. Then we have the three insecure attachments. So we have anxious as we talked about, and the anxious is, think of it as, I need you in my life, I don't want you, right? I need you, I have to have you. That's usually prevalent in homes with inconsistency or hot and cold parent, right, in and out.

Doesn't need to be abuse, right? It could just be that your parents worked a lot and you just didn't know when you were gonna see them next so you would always act out out hoping to get their attention. So that's the anxious. Then we go into the avoidant. Other side of the spectrum, but very similar core beliefs. So the anxious person's biggest fear is fear of abandonment.

Please don't leave me. Don't leave me alone. The avoidant person's biggest fear is fear of rejection. Their whole thing is like, so my partner is more avoidant leaning, I'm more anxious. So all that means is when we get triggered. And that's the misconception. People think, so my partner's more avoidant leaning, I'm more anxious. So all that means is when we get triggered. And that's the misconception. People think, oh, he's avoidant. It's like, no, that guy's just an asshole. Right?

Like, avoidant means you need to be triggered for this to come out. Ah, okay. Right? So if I'm just being here being like, whatever, and ignoring you, it's like, no, you're just being rude. Versus, hey, I really like you and I'd love to see where this goes. If someone's like, this doesn't feel safe, like, oh my God. Then they just shut down and like, um, can you just give me a minute? Like, I just, I like, or they just can't process, right?

So avoidance, they're anxious, but their biggest fear is rejection. Being ridiculed for who they are as a person. And I see that with my sister. I love my sister to the moon, the stars and the sun. But she was always put down for who she was as a kid. And so she just, what her thought was, what's the point? What's the point of even saying anything? So she shuts down and goes inward.

Doesn't mean she doesn't care. She's dying inside. But she taught at a young age, this isn't safe. It's not safe to have emotions. You're going to lose your caregiver because of it. So that's the misconception. People think avoidants are just these cold, callous people, and it's like they're in their own version of hell internally, it's just not external. Then, where we hear, have you heard of the like, I'm anxious and I'm avoidant, right? Yes.

So what that actually means is like, when you're anxious with some people, but avoidant with others, that just means that like, probably it's because this person really likes you and you're like, I know, I want it, goes against your core belief. True disorganized attachment, which is the amalgamation of anxious and avoidant,

is the push-pull. Have you ever dated anybody that one night you're like, I feel so connected to this person, true disorganized attachment, which is the amalgamation of anxious and avoidant, is the push-pull. Have you ever dated anybody that one night you're like, I feel so connected to this person, and then the next morning you're like, what happened to you? That's the, so the disorganized, a lot of homes of abuse, think about, they want love,

so they come closer to you, and then they're scared of it, so they run. And let's think about, like, I want my parent to love me, and then that person hits me, and you're like, I'm confused, I want love love but I'm scared by it That's where we see that disorganized and it's really really tough. So those are the main attachment styles Now here's my issue with attachment theory as much as I love it Mm-hmm is being fucking weaponized like it's nobody's business

Like I had I was on a podcast and she said what do you think of this first date question? And I was like shoot and she goes I was on and he asked me what my attachment style was and I was like burn it Get rid of it. First of all, people suck at self-identification. Second of all, if I told you I was avoidant, your first thought's gonna be, I don't want to do this. Well, I don't want to do this. Yeah, that seems terrible. But it's really just, it's not giving space for it.

And same with anxious. If you told them, well, I'm anxiously attached, they're probably, she's gonna be clingy, too needy, and it's like, but that doesn't mean that's who I am. That just means it's how I attach to people when I get triggered. I can work through that. So the anxious shit, anxious, avoidant, disorganized, anything like that. You can go towards earned secure. That's doing the work.

But do you think it's OK, like down the line, maybe you're like two or three months in to be like, I get a little anxious? 100 percent. OK. You can express yourself, but we just don't want to self-identify that. I have like people ask me, like, when do I tell this person I have anxious attachment? And I'm like, why the fuck would you say? Never. Don't do it. Because what you're saying is, I don't change.

Right? I'm fixed. And it's like, attachment's not fixed. That's what my therapist said. She was like, you are anxiously attached, but there is a world where, you know, you meet somebody and you feel very secure in that attachment, and then suddenly you're securely attached. But that's not to say you don't break up with that person and then become anxious again with somebody else.

And I was like, bitch, stop telling me the truth. Get out of here. And it's so true because I've had partners that really trigger my anxious attachment more and then I've had people that barely trigger it, right? Because of the way that they interact with me and vice versa. So I think we need to stop looking at this as like either I need to be healed in order to be in a relationship that doesn't exist. No, not at all. I wish.

If I had to be fucking healed to be in a relationship, it's going to take a long time. It's six feet under, right? Yeah, truly. I'll be dead. It'll be dead. And the other side of the coin is like, knowing your attachment style is a beautiful thing for yourself. But I don't know about you, girl. I see this all the time with like, the guy I was dating was so avoidant,

you have no problem describing them. You have so much data on them. Tell me you. What's your part in this, right? What do you allow? I was dating a narcissist, I was married to a narcissist. It's not long. Do you mind me asking?

We dated for like six months and then we were together for, like we moved in and then we got married. So a year and a half total. Okay did not last very long and To this day people always be like, oh, well, he must be all these things. I'm like, but so was I mm-hmm I played a part in that dynamic. It's sure. He is not a good person Like I wouldn't say like go to bat for him, but I played a part in that dynamic because I allowed it If I thought about what would the healed version of me say or like the person that has more healing? Oh, she would have set boundaries, didn't have any.

He gaslit me and I took it, right? We were reenacting how my father and I would fight. I would be on the floor crying, he would walk out, and it's like, holy smokes, I played into that. It is interesting when you take a step back and you're like, I allowed myself to be treated this way. And it's interesting because, like, I've been in bad's interesting because, like,

I've been in bad relationships where I'm like, I don't know how I stayed around for so long. I'm like, no, no, yes, you do. You know you stayed around because you wanted to be picked. And you said, I'm willing to take whatever, whatever, like, however you're gonna treat me, I'm just gonna take it because I just want it. And that's a sad thing to realize.

But then it's also pretty empowering because you're like, OK, well, if someone cancels on me, I'm not going to be sad about it. I'll just go make other plans or whatever. I'm not going to be upset or if they cancel too many times and I go, oh, then maybe we don't go out or whatever. It's tough, though. Very tough, because what you're doing is you're holding yourself accountable consistently and showing, but that's what you're also doing is you're letting little you know, right?

Like if we think about five-year-old Nicole, ten-year-old Nicole, right? Or Sab, I was going to say SaS, that was my nephew calls me. But little me, right? And when I look at her and I'm like, I choose you, I love you. And like, I always think about like, what would she want to do right now if she were with me? I'm like, we're going to go get my favorite meal, right? That person canceled on me. I'm like, I choose you. I love you. And like, I always think about like, what would she want to do right now if she were with me? I'm like, we're gonna go get my favorite meal, right? That person canceled on me. I'm like, I'm taking myself out to my favorite Thai restaurant.

I'm gonna go for a walk. I'm gonna watch my favorite movie. I'm gonna take a bath and I'm gonna do something for me to show myself that I show up for me. I don't need to blame, shame, criticize, put myself down. See, cause there's something wrong with you, blah, blah. That again is your core belief. And the more we keep doing that, what's that screw tape?

Again, whose voice is that? Is it me? Do I really believe that there's something wrong with me? Or was I taught that? Yeah, I had to really get over the whole I'm too much because I'm not. No. I'm fine.

I have a nice time, mostly all the time. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. And here's the thing, you'll be too much, but it appears like you're not too much. It's maybe your needs are too much because they don't have the bandwidth to satisfy those needs. Again, my therapist said the same thing.

She's a smart lady. And that's the beauty of psychology is what I love about it is like, it really, we all think we're so different. We think we're such snowflakes and you're like, you're not, right? You're not, I'm not, we're all very similar. The traumas might be different, right? I would hope that we didn't all have the same childhood.

But the core beliefs don't change because that's ultimately the messaging that we received. And I don't need to allow myself because I do get to control what my thoughts are. But like anything else, it's like a muscle, right? If I go to the gym, you think I just go once and that's it? It's like, I need to go every, I need to do that every day. So my friend told me a really fun fact.

It takes 300 repetitions for your body to remember something. So like 300 times of doing something. Do you know how long it takes for your brain to have a new neural pathway? No. 3,000 repetitions. No, that's too many. It's a lot of, it's a lot. 3,000 repetitions though.

And so it shows you of like, oh right, have I chosen myself 3,000 times? Have I spoken to myself with kindness 3,000 times? Have I let myself make a different choice, right? Have I validated myself? We don't do that often, right? I'm insane, I'm crazy. See, I'm being too much, like I'm too needy,

versus, no, I have every right to ask for this from this person and if they can't satisfy it, that's okay. And that is very hard to do. Totally. It's very hard to ask for what you need, knowing that that person, A, maybe can't give it to you, or B, will try and it still might not be enough. It's very, dating is really hard.

It is, but you get to choose your heart. Right? Because like, to me, I thought about this the other day, I was like, getting up in the morning is hard for me. Right? I have to get up, I have to do 70, I have to dial my tinctures and drinks and this, and I have to do my nails and my hair and that. And I was like, as I was getting ready,

I was like, to a lot of people, this is hard. To me, it's not. I get to choose what makes things hard. And the reason it's so hard is because there's nothing that's going to trigger you and mimic your caregivers closer than a relationship. So having a romantic relationship is going to trigger all that shit.

But you hurt in relationships and you heal in relationships. So yes, it's so hard, but so is what you do. Your career is hard to a lot of people. It's effortless for you. You are such a natural at it. So it's like podcasting to some people is so hard. Right, we choose our heart. That is interesting because I have had people be like,

I don't know how you do it. And I'm like, because I need validation and I need people to ha ha ha at me. Oh, ha ha ha ha. It makes me feel good. Right? And it makes me feel happy when someone comes to me and they're like, oh, I was sad and I listened

to your podcast and it made me happy. Or I saw your standup show and it made me happy. I'm like, ha ha, that's great. Huzzah. Yeah, I guess that is interesting. You choose your heart. Wait, you said that on on a first like you don't need to reveal your Attachment styles, but you have said that like on a first date. You should be very upfront with what you want Yeah

So in that sense of like I don't need to say that I'm gonna get anxious because if you don't call me I'll probably freak out at my house It's like you don't need to know that but like when I met my partner first date I walked in and I was like I don't know than to. I just lost my dog, I just lost my career, I just lost everything and I was like, what the fuck is this? Some dude on hinge. And so I asked, what are your politics, right?

And it wasn't just spitfire, it was like, okay, conversation. But I wasn't shying from it. What are your politics? What are this? What are this? Because for me, I looked, I get to decide if this is gonna work for me.

So why would I spend more time with you if it's not going to work? And to this day, every time I've asked him, or anytime anyone asked him, like, hey, so what made you like Sabrina? And he's like, the question she asked, because that's the woman I was looking for. When you show up authentically, like, you show up as you,

you're going to then allow people to accept you as you. And that's the most beautiful part, so that you can ha ha, and then someone will ha ha with you. And you're like, cool, I don't have to convince you to do this, you authentically show up. So for me, yeah, talk about intentions of like, hey, I'm really intentional with the way that I date. Like, I'm not, just because I'm here

doesn't mean I want to marry you, but that means if we're going to spend time together that we're actually going to be building something and don't do the casual thing. See, that's always so scary. What's scary about it? Because they might go, oh, I'm not looking for anything serious.

But then I'm like, then why are you dating? Why not be upfront before before we even meet? Just be like, I'm fucking I'm not dating. I'm just fucking. I guess when I date, like, I think I go in with too many expectations. And how do you get around? I guess it's just by being like, I'm gonna live in the now, I'm just gonna have a nice time.

Expectations are unmet needs. So we start to start looking and saying, what expectations can I satisfy within myself? How can I articulate that my expectations are? So like, again, my expectation would be if we're gonna continue to hang out, then that means we're building something. I'm very clear about that.

You know what I'm expecting from this. You know what I'm looking for here. And so what we first have to do is like, even that, like this feels scary. Then I would challenge and go, how old do you feel when you say things like that? You don't have to give me an answer right now, but like that would be of like...

I guess when I say dating, things are scary. It brings me back to like high school. Have you seen the substance? It's a movie with Dem high school. Have you seen The Substance? It's a movie with Demi Moore? No. Okay. Well, there's a monster at the end and that's what I felt like all through high school.

I was very awkward. Very, very awkward looking. And whenever I'm like dating and thinking about dating, that's what I feel. I feel very awkward and like the monster. So, and that's so valid because that was an experience that you had, but you notice how the past becomes the present, and all of a sudden we project that onto the other person,

but I'm scared you're gonna reject me, and it's like, oh, I've already rejected myself because I call myself a monster. Good. That was wild. Yeah. So, and like, my therapist called me on my shit. I said something and I said like, well, it's one thing I do, right? And she stopped me and she goes, cut that shit. And I was like, what?

And she goes, what's this with self-deprecation stuff? She was really, you do one thing right? And I was like, oh my God, she's right. But it's true, right? So what happens, like, okay, so that's the Nicole that's coming out. And what we can do is look at her and be like, oh my God, you're not a monster, I choose you.

I think you're fucking amazing. And anybody that doesn't see that, fuck them, right? And it takes more work, it wouldn't just be one thing. But that's that's the work. Right. Notice how you're like, oh shit, you're right. That's not the me right now, because the me right now thinks I'm goddamn amazing. Yes. And it is interesting because younger, I felt like a different I was like, oh, yeah, you're you're zitty and nasty. And even now, when I was at some like whatever that's zits, lucky to be on my face.

Ooh wee. Now I like have a very inflated self worth that I think I'm stunning. Sometimes I just stare in the mirror and I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe how cute you are. God was so good to me, right? And as long as it's coming from an authentic place. Oh yeah.

Then it's like. It took me a while. Yeah. But yeah. And what I would encourage is, get a photo of you from high school. That monster. Get a photo and put that in the mirror. Say it to her. Oh god.

Say it to her. You're beautiful. And you are amazing. And you are fantastic. And then start to see how you change the way you speak to yourself. Oh my god, Sabrina. Okay. I will do that. I think. I really hate my senior picture. It's like... Perfect! We're going to bring out the senior picture. No one in the planet besides you has to see it, and that's the beautiful part. You're absolutely right. And I'll hide it if someone comes over. Exactly. Elvis and... It's like in the movies. I don't know. What?

It's like, what are you talking about? It's not... Yeah, that's my cousin. She just so happens to look just like me. I had a bunch of vision boards in my house, and I brought a boy home, and I had to be like, oh... Because all of it was like, have good sex. Fine, love. Love, love, love, love, love. And I was like, oh no. They're going to think I'm crazy.

Not a good look. It's like when I was in high school and my mom used to put my back brace on my bed and when somebody would come over, I would jump off and throw it on and be like, hi. Just laundry. Wait, why did you have a back brace? For scoliosis? I had a... I was...

Awkward. That's why I'm like, oh, I know my high school me. I'm like... I had short spiky hair. I had gold braces. And then I had a night guard. The full on. I had a back brace that started up here and went down here.

Put me in every night. That was fucking awkward. I really love spiky hair, gold braces. That is a choice. That makes me so happy. I really love spiky hair, gold braces. That is a choice. That makes me so happy. I love that. Gold. Like all of it was gold.

And I had like a little pixie cut, like Kelly Osborne haircut. And I wanted it pink, but my mom was like, no. She was like, we'll do the spiky. That's all we could do at this present moment. Enjoy the cut. Okay. Let's take a break and we'll be right back. [♪ music playing, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics, no lyrics Routine set in and suddenly date night is just both of you scrolling TikTok in bed. That's where Aria comes in. It's like having a personal concierge for your love life.

No more guessing what gets your partner in the mood or will it make a night feel special? Aria figures it out for you with curated experiences called scenes that help you and your partner connect in a whole new way. Getting started is super easy. You just take a short quiz about your relationship and Aria's real actual human concierge helps you find the perfect scene for you and your partner then. Every month they send you a discreetly packaged high-end experience designed to bring you closer together, whether that's through deepening emotional intimacy, adding more playfulness, or just shaking things up. Think of it like a meal kit or a clothing subscription but for your relationship.

Aria takes care of the details, so all you have to do is show up and enjoy. Make every date night Valentine's Day with Aria by your side. Visit aria.fyi and use code DATEME for 15% off today. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. We spend so much time talking about red flags, bad dates, terrible exes, people who ghost.

What about green flags? You know, those signs that someone is actually good for you? Maybe they listen without interrupting, respect your boundaries, or actually text you back. If you're not sure what green flags to look for or how to be one yourself, therapy can help. Whether you're dating, in a relationship, building friendships, or just working on you,

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Discover your relationship green flags with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash date me today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterH-E-L-P dot com slash date me. Wait, what's one of the worst dates you've been on? Oh God, the worst dates I've been on. I'm trying to remember. Nothing is really like, there wasn't anything

that it was like, oh God. It was more of just the like, fuck, like you show up and you're like, God damn it, this person's nothing like I thought they were. Or, I mean, I've just had some, I've had an embarrassing experience, like I'll never forget I went on a, it wasn't a double date per se, but my friend was trying.

She was like, come, me and the guy I'm seeing, he has this other guy, and I show up and I was like, oh my God, the guy's really hot. And I told her, I was like, okay, like, hook it up. And they get in the cab after, and it was in Brooklyn, and she's like, no, so Sabrina's interested, and he looks at her and he's like, I slept with her two years ago.

I had no fucking clue. He had different hair, it was like one of those where you're like, oh, and then she said it, and I was like, oh! Oh, I remember that. That is very funny. Yeah, so things like that. That is deeply funny. That. So things like that. That is deeply funny.

That's like sitcom level funny. Like, we've already slept together. Loopsie! And she was like, and then she texts me and she's like, are you fucking kidding me? And I was like, sorry. So stuff like that happens to me. Because like I try for me when I would go on dates, like I tried to vet them as best as I could.

Like I wanted to be a better buyer. So I've definitely had those dates where you're like, I can't wait five more minutes. Just make this polite, get the drink and get the fuck out. But I've had some dates where I'm like, wow, you were a lot cooler than I thought you were gonna be. And then I've had the guys where you're like, this is a really good act.

But I don't, do you have a bad date story? Anything that comes to mind? I feel like I've told all of them. I did go on a date, maybe I didn't tell this one, I went on a date where, maybe Mars will remember, I went on a date with this, oh no, I wasn't on a date, I was out with a friend and the dude I was currently dating walked in with the girl he was also seeing

because we hadn't had a talk about exclusivity yet. Have I told you this? Maybe, but I'd love to hear it again. Oh, okay. And I was like, oh my God, that's him. And I like turned to my friend, I was like, that's the man I'm, I was literally out with him yesterday. And he was like, oh no.

He's like, well, maybe they won't sit near us. And I was like, maybe they won't. And then they sat directly behind me. Of course. And then the girl he was with recognized me and wanted to tell me that she liked me. And he told me later that he was like Oh, you can't really bother people

Leave her alone And then they ended up leaving rather quickly like after a drink and I was like, you know what? We haven't had the conversation yet. So I'll just I texted him the next day. I was like, hey, awkward, but like, we haven't really talked about it. I understand that you're seeing other people. I'm also seeing other people. And he was like, hey, thanks for being so chill.

And I was like, I can't believe I was so chill. But it was one of those things that I had a little bit of time, because I was like truly tripping in the moment. I was like, oh my God, I can't, I'm not enough. But then the next day I was like, what do you mean you're not enough? You've only been seeing him for like two what do you mean you're not enough? You've only been seeing him for like two months and you've seen him three times in those two

months and you have not, you literally haven't talked about it yet. So it's okay. And I was so proud of myself. And that right there is exactly why we say put space between feeling the fuck. Because that trigger in the moment you're like, I have to react. And it's like, no, I can actually take space. I can let myself think about this and process it. And then I can respond the next day.

I got it when I did it in New York. I mean, it's, you know, as you're talking, you're like, oh, all of the flips. I was like, I blocked that out of my brain. But I will just say I've had my fair share of experiences. And what you know is like, you learn from that. Right? Like that right there, had that not happened happened you wouldn't have noticed like I'm really proud of myself for growing because I made a choice I made a different choice in that moment when I regulated and I feel like if this was

like Nicole in her 20s I would have been like you are seeing somebody else if it were Sabrina in her 20s I actually I would have gone to the table like what are we doing here but that's where like it's not even people, oh, you're just mature. And you're like, no, you grow up, right? Like you actually understand like growing up means coming back home to my body. And like you said, not being enough or something wrong with me, it's like, where did I get that from? Maybe it's just that they have a different connection and this person's exploring

what works for them because we're not actually compatible. Yes. And that is also hard to understand. The whole compatibility thing is hard for me because I'm like, but we could be compatible. Tell me what you want and I'll do it. And that's like, no, I won't. I'm not a good cook. I'll never be a good cook.

If you want me to cook for you, the wrong girl. I can't. I can order so good. I can order so many things to my house. It's really nice and easy. But yeah, there's just like some things I'm just not going to do. And I've really learned to be like, yeah, I don't do that. I'll go camping once. That's it.

Oh, no. Oh, no. I'll do it one time. Glamping? Maybe. I'll sleep on the floor. You'll look in the tent? For one time. Wow. And if I love it, I'll do it again.. Glamping? Maybe. I'll sleep on the floor. For one time.

Wow. And if I love it, I'll do it again. I just know I won't. Yeah. So, like, I'm in the zone right now where I'm like, I'll do it one time. And we can have that memory. That one time I did it.

I will not do it again. No. I'm trying to stop being a people pleaser and have a little bit of boundaries. People pleaser, I'll help you with that. There's a therapist I love, Mathias Barker, and he always says, when you're thinking about people pleasing, I want you to think of it this way. Am I being hurtful or harmful?

I can hurt your feelings. I can live with hurting your feelings. But I can't be harmful. And harmful to myself or to you. And so the example he uses, like, sorry, I can't, like, you know, a friend comes into town and they're like, Nicole, I'm only here for one night. The people pleaser will be like, okay, let me make this work. I don't want to say no.

Instead it's, hey, I'm so sorry. You didn't make this plan with me. I can't do it. Right? That's the, I can hurt your feelings. Harmful being like, my daughter has a recital. Mommy's gonna go to the spa for the day. And it's like, now that's just being harmful.

You didn't say no because that comes from a place. It's like, you didn't need to go do that. You left your kid. So when we're thinking about that, start to ask yourself, like, am I being hurtful or harmful? Am I hurting their feelings or am I harming myself at the same time? What matters more, hurting their feelings or harming myself?

Ooh wee. That's good. Because I've done a lot of things where I'm like, I am actively sad. I don't want to be here. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this. I don't like this person, but I'm like, I didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings, so I showed up.

And to me, that is actively harming myself, being unhappy for more than five minutes. Right, because then what you're saying is like, my needs don't matter. I don't care about. So what's happening? Reaffirming the core belief that, see, I'm worth it, right? Like I said, insert the core belief here.

Every time we self-abandon, and every time we walk away from ourselves and we do something that feels out of line, like my partner and I have a way that what we do is we say to avoid resentment. That's how we start it. And we both know if one of us says that, put your phone down and to look at that person.

And that's something that we've done because I know as well as he does, if I don't say anything, I don't say anything, I don't say anything, I'm gonna fucking lose my shit one day because you didn't put the toilet seat down and we all know it's not about the fucking toilet seat. But instead, it's like a relationship is one giant conversation. Communicate often, obviously, within reason, right?

Learn how to like sit with it. But by being able to say like, hey, that doesn't work for me, what you're telling yourself is like, you do matter. I care about you. I listen to you. I hear you and your needs matter to me. I like that. Wait, what is the phrasing you use? I don't want to cause resentment. To avoid resentment. And this is just to like any problem you have?

Anything. Like even earlier we were at lunch and he like, he made like a snarky comment and we got in the car and all I said was, hey, to avoid resentment. What you said was really hurtful. I felt really dismissed. I used statement. I felt really dismissed. I felt like you weren't treating me like your partner. It felt like you were putting me down like your little sister. And moving forward, I really need

to have respect when we're out in the way that you talk to me. And he looked and he was like, thank you for sharing. I didn't realize that. I understand what you mean. Noted. That's it. You move on.

Then that way, I'm like, OK, thanks. I felt seen. I felt heard. I felt understood. And now I feel safe to express myself to this person because look how they receive me. And vice versa, if he says, I need to share anything, hey, to avoid resentment, I'll put my phone

and I'm like, talk to me. I like that, I like that a lot. I was dating somebody who would kind of do that, and what he expected me to do was just to go, okay, thank you, and then anytime I did that with him, it was, I didn was just to go, okay, thank you. And then anytime I did that with him, it was, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings or this was my intention or da da da da.

And I'd be like, well, how come I always just have to say sorry and you can't just say sorry? Right. And then they didn't like that. Exactly, I was gonna say, and that fell apart. My partner has always said intention doesn't matter. He's like, my intention without action doesn't mean shit. And so he was like, so I need to do better.

And like, that's how you meet someone, is like, I care about you, what you're saying matters to me. And that's why communication from the beginning, like the relationship he and I have now started because of the foundation that we built along the way. I remember our first month, I remember calling him, shaking, being on my phone with my mom, being like, I'm scared. And my mom's like, what are you scared of?

And I said, what if he leaves me? And she goes, good, open the door. And I was like, that bitch is right. And so I called him and I FaceTimed him, we talked and I remember it went way better. And I remember hanging up being like, I feel so connected to him, oh my God. And I was like, oh wow, I could have not done that.

But I made a choice for myself when I regulated and I came to the fact that no one's gonna stand up for me in this way, no one was. I get to be the adult Sabrina didn't have as a kid. Boy, oh boy, I like that. I really do like that you come from a place of like if it's not if it's not your person, then they gotta go and if it's your person then they'll like hear you and validate you. They're not gonna go. Yeah, that's nice. Within reason of course, right? Like, you know, love is conditional and that's a common misconception.

Like I give you a little I I see if it works. Trust. To me, unconditional love, it's like, yeah, my mom, my mom's going to love me even if I'm going to kill her. She even said, she's like, you can kill me and I'd love you. I was like, that's sadistic. You're also dead. Versus a relationship, I'm like, no, no, no, we agreed on this. You can't just become some tyrant and I have to love you.

And boundaries come into play because boundaries don't control somebody else. Boundaries allow you to say what you're willing to allow. So if you tell me, it's the same example I use of, don't call me after nine o'clock. I can't tell you, Nicole, you're not allowed to call me. It's like, I can't control you, but what I'll say is I won't answer the phone after nine. I don't go out at eight o'clock.

Doesn't mean you can't invite me out at eight, but I'm gonna tell you, hey, I don't go out that late. That's a boundary. And then if you cross it, that's on you, right? But I don't need to allow it. Boy, oh boy. I know. There's so much.

There's so much to being a functional human being. That's why most people don't wanna do the work, because there is a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot, but it's so fucking worth it. It is. You sound happy and secure. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Happy's elusive, secure yes, though. Like, at least in the sense where I know that no matter what, I'll be okay. That's it. I don't know what's gonna happen, but I know that I got my back and I've eaten shit before and I've lost everything. So if my relationship didn't work out, if my career fell apart, like,

I will be sad because I'm a human, but I also know that I have my back and I'll figure the shit out. God, I love that so much. Do you have any advice for single people? Yes. Be really kind to yourself, but also call yourself out on your shit.

Like, it's a... I'm done. If we find yourself in the woe is me, everything keeps happening to me. I just keep... The men are trash. Like, it's called a cognitive bias. The more you fucking say that stuff, the more you're going to see it. Start to work on you.

That's all you can control. Come back home to yourself. And I promise you, yes, I promise you, you will find somebody. It's just a matter of are you ready to receive it? Oh, oh, I like that. Are you ready to receive it? Cause it's funny, sometimes I don't think I am or like was,

because I'm dating somebody right now. It's going pretty well. They're really nice to me. I love that. And I once said to him, I was like, I'm an anxious person in relationships. And he just went, oh, I know. And I was like, that sounds like my partner. I was like, what do you mean you know?

Oh, yeah. My partner looks at me and goes, babe, if you don't think that when you walked in the door, I figured it out. And I was like, that sounds like my partner! I was like, what do you mean you know? Oh yeah, my partner looks at me and goes, babe if you don't think that when you walked in the door I figured it out, and I was like, oh. Or not, and that's what he always said, he's always like, you go high during anxiety, so stop trying to pretend like you do. And like, look how beautiful your partner saw you. Very nice, and I am a late person,

and he said to me once, I was like, I'm so sorry, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I was like tripping about it, and he was like, hey, I'm happy to be here with you. And you got here when you did, I had a drink at the bar, it's fine. And I was like, what? Right, what? See how that re-parents you, like you can now start to go,

oh, so my core beliefs aren't right. That's what I mean by receive it. Because if you think, proverbial you, I'm not worthy, I'm not good enough, someone trying to give you love, ugh, get away. That's why healthy is boring. No, I want the spark. It's like, you want the trauma tingles.

Just say what it is. Yes, that's interesting because he's pretty secure and I wasn't used to that. And I was like, but things are good. And it's been a long time of good. When will bad, when will bad happen? And we've talked about it. He's like, not to say, like, he's like, we will fight.

And it's fine. We'll just figure it out. And I was like, huh. As long as you're both committed. Because you know, how many times you get in a fight with someone, I can't do this. Or like, I was watching something. Or it was a friend of mine. And like, it was literally something so minute. Like, she was just a human about something. And the person was like, I can't do this.

And she looked at him and she was like, so me just being a human means you're going to run? I don't know that and I'm gonna... And she looked at him and she's like, so me just being a human means you're gonna run? I don't know that I can trust you. Yeah. And that's why I remember kind of even put a pin in it with this therapist I love, Julie Menino, always says, the only thing you need to be in a healthy, secure relationship is two people

that are willing to work at this no matter what. Because no matter what, as I can go to therapy, you go to therapy, we talk, we do all these things, but I am willing to invest no matter what. The minute that stops is the minute the relationship is over. Damn. I know. Sabrina.

That was good. You got a lot of like good wisdom pearls. No. Pearls of wisdom? I'll take wisdom pearls. Is that a thing? Pearls of wisdom? Did I make that up? You also started the show that you could come in some of your eye

and say he was eye drops. Like, we're gonna go with it. I always have a dumb little intro like that, and I might have used that one already, if you could believe. I... What? Ch'as sacre bleu. Sabrina, we've come to the end. Do you have anything that you want to promote? Just, if you guys want to join the club,

hopefully you'll have Nicole on the podcast soon. I would love to do it. Okay, well, we're going to talk offline about that because I have an idea for you. It's the Sabrina Zohar Show. You guys can listen to it on Spotify, YouTube, all the fun shit. SabrinaZohar.com if you want to join one of the courses

or just follow along on the socials just to learn more about yourself. Yeah, I cannot overstate how much I love your Instagram. Thank you. And maybe your TikTok? No. Maybe it's just TikToks that have made it to Instagram. Yeah, TikTok University. I'm an old woman. I can't do TikTok.

If you like this episode... Oh wait, would you date me? Of course I would date you. With pleasure. Oh, thank you. Because you're somebody that's self-aware and you're working on yourself, and to me that's all that matters. I'm trying so hard. I know. I get exhausted daily. Same. And I get that. I see you. Oh. Cause you're somebody that's self-aware and you're working on yourself. And to me, that's all that matters. I'm trying so hard. I know. I get exhausted daily.

Same. And I get that. I see you. And I think it's talking beautiful. Sometimes I talk to my dog and then I'll be like, you don't get what I'm saying. Oh. Why aren't you saying, oh.

He's like, oh, cause you're a dog. If he could talk, he'd be like, hey babe, it's okay. Yeah. He'd be like, I'm your emotional support. Don't worry about it. It's fine. But if you liked this episode of Why Won't You Date Me, you could like it, you could rate it, it's okay. Yeah, you'd be like I'm your emotional support. Yeah, don't worry about it. It's fine But if you like this episode, why won't you date me? You could like it you could rate it you can subscribe Give me five stars on Apple podcast if you hit on me with something nasty You could submit it to why won't you date me podcast at gmail.com. I will read it dear Nicole roses are red chocolates are sweet But the only chocolate I want is that ass. I'm gonna eat. Hey

Thank you. I love that so much a true poet Some of them are sick. I'm I was gonna say when you believe it of nasty You're like, I don't know where we're going with this honestly the sicker the better I really like what people come up with except for this one time. I talk about it a lot this person wanted to Make me be upside down and fill me with clam chowder. And that to me, I was like, that's sadistic. That's nasty. It's like waterboarding with clam chowder.

What if it curdles up in me? I got clams in me? I know I've never had clam chowder. There's clams in it, right? I don't fuck with clam chowder myself. It doesn't look good. No, it's chunky. It's lumpy. It's crunchy. I don't want it. I'm getting the nods. There is to be clams in it. Is there clams in clam chowder? Because I'm gonna laugh and they're like, it's chunky, it's lumpy, it's crunty. I don't want it. I'm getting the nods. There's should be clams in it. Is there clams in clam chowder?

Because I'm gonna laugh and they're like, it's vegan. It's just a fun thing we call it. There's no clams. But yeah, clams in my pussy? No. No, I'm good. No. Bye-bye.

You've been listening to Why Won't You Date Me with me, Nicole Byer. This show is produced and edited by Mars, with executive producer Anya Kenovskaya. It's engineered by Casey Donahue, with guest research by Lindsay Kempf. Our VP of content at Headgum is Katie Moose, and our theme music is arranged by Mike Komete.

Ah, thanks for listening! We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. See you then. Okay. Bye-bye. That was a HeadGum Podcast. Hi, I'm Caleb Herron, host of the So True Podcast now on HeadGum. Every week, me and my guests get into it and we get down to what's really going on. I ask them what's so true to them, how they got to where they are in life, a bunch of other questions, and we also may or may not test their general trivia knowledge.

Whether it's one of my sworn enemies like Brittany Broski or Drew Fualo, or my actual biological mother, Kelly, my guests and I are just after the truth. And if we find it great, and if not, no worries. So subscribe to So True on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you get your podcasts, Truth.