Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - I Wanna Be a Slut (w/ Lisa Hanawalt)

Episode Date: October 16, 2026

Illustrator and friend Lisa Hanawalt (Bojack Horseman, Tuca & Bertie) returns to the podcast to chat about starting fresh in the dating scene after a 15-year relationship with Adam Conover, and what happened when they tried opening things up before they parted ways. Lisa explains wanting to be a slut while still needing to feel safe, her dates with a pathological liar who claimed he’d survived three train crashes, and what it’s like explaining PMDD mood swings to a new partner.Next week, Adam Conover joins Nicole to share his side of things.Lisa Hanawalt's new book, I Can’t Stop Thinking About Horses and Sex, is out October 20.https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/837946/i-cant-stop-thinking-about-horses-and-sex-by-lisa-hanawalt/Watch this episode on our YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/@WhyWontYouDateMePodcastSupport this podcast by checking out our sponsors:» Squarespace: Head to https://www.squarespace.com/DATEME to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code DATEME.» Hers: Visit https://forhers.com/dateme to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you.» Cash App: Download Cash App today and make your money work for you. Click here to get started: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/3v6r90n6 #CashAppPartner Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa® Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and The Bancorp Bank, N.A., pursuant to a license from Visa U.S.A. Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton prepaid card, Sutton debit flex card, and Bancorp debit flex card. Discounts and promotions provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures.» Wayfair: Find pieces made for real life, and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to https://Wayfair.com to shop all things home.» Planned Parenthood: Donate to support Planned Parenthood now at https://plannedparenthood.org/defendCheck out all of our sponsors and discount codes at wwydm.notion.site/sponsors.Follow:All Links: linktr.ee/whywontyoudatemeTour Dates: linktr.ee/nicolebyerwastakenYouTube: @WhyWontYouDateMePodcastTikTok: @whywontyoudatemepod Instagram: @nicolebyerX: @nicolebyerThis is a Headgum podcast. Advertise on Why Won't You Date Me? via Gumball.fm.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Want to watch this episode? Catch the full video on YouTube. Just hit the link in the episode description. This is a headgum podcast. Going on dates and meeting new people should be fun, but you can only really have fun if you have peace of mind. And a huge part of that is staying on top of your sexual health. You should never have to worry about where your next birth control refill is coming from or where to get tested. Unfortunately, getting that kind of basic health care is getting way more complicated for so many people. Right now, the Trump administration is going after Title X family planning. It's the only federal program devoted solely to funding care like birth control, cancer screenings, and STI testing, and treatment for uninsured, underinsured, and low-income people. Title 10 has never been controversial. It was created in 1970s, so no one would ever.

have to go without reproductive care. But Planned Parenthood isn't backing down. They're still showing up for patients, making sure everyone can get access to the necessary care they need when they need it the most. If you believe all people should have access to health care, Planned Parenthood needs you in this fight. Don't let them get away with this. Go to planparenthood.org slash defend and give today. This past summer was way too hot and hectic, so sometimes the only fix is to load up my car, grab the nice man in my life and find somewhere quiet to reset. A little while ago, we took a quick getaway up to Santa Barbara. So we booked a home on Airbnb, tucked into a quiet tree-lined hillside neighborhood.

The home was so cute. Our host left a sweet little guide to the area, so we took their advice and walked down a trail to a nearby farm stand for fresh fruit and local pastries. We spent the rest of the day browsing cute antique shops in town nearby. and the nice man found and bought me this cute little flamingo that holds my sunglasses. It was a nice souvenir of the trip. In the evenings, instead of fighting for a dinner reservation, we fired up the barbecue in the backyard of the home. We booked, and my nice man grilled up some chicken.

We picked up from a local butcher. I don't know if it was the fresh ingredients or it was just cooked by the nice man in my life, but it was the best chicken I've ever had. Booking a home on Airbnb has completely changed the way. way I travel. I love that it gives you the chance to explore a new place, discover local spots, and have those little moments together that make a trip feel special. Welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me? A podcast where Meena Call Byer has been trying to figure out why I'm so single or why I was so single, even though you could come on

the table and tell me it's a button. My guest, really flying by the seat on the pants. My guest today is an illustrator who created the show Tuka and Bertie, where I got to do a bunch of voices specifically because I saw, never mind, I don't even have to get it to it. Now I'm curious what you're going to say. Well, okay, wait, let me do your intro. Okay, produced Bojack Horseman and Long Story Short. Two other shows I'm on. Her new book, I can't stop thinking about horses and sex, comes out October 20th. I'm so excited. She's been in my pool. She's been on my pole. She's a nice friend.

And I had to ask her how to say her last name because last names are hard for me. And she's returning to the podcast. It's Lisa. Hannah Wong. Yes. Okay. So Tuka and Bertie was announced with Ali Wong. But it wasn't announced with Tiffany yet.

And I saw the announcement. So I screenshot it, sent it my manager. And I was like, if they don't have a second person to play against Ali yet, I'm sure there's an offer out, but like, if they would think of me, I would love it. I think it would be so fun. And then my manager was like, no, Tiffany, they're going to announce it soon. And I was like, oh, okay. Tiffany was the first person we cast.

But the announcement, that's so weird. I think it's because her deal probably wasn't done yet. Maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. But yeah, we definitely went out to her first. And then we were, like, finding a birdie. But you were, like, going to be in it, no matter what. It was very fun.

I wanted you to be in it. Yeah. It's one of my favorite. things because people will like tweet at me or like just in person will like list off all the characters I've done. Oh my gosh. That's awesome. It's people love to convert.

I'm so happy when people still remember it because, you know, it was a while ago and like, whatever. But yeah, that's, that's nice. Don't do that. It's such a wonderful show. Thank you. It's so great. It's so fun.

I think you're so talented. Sheesh. Now let's talk about sex. Yeah. Let's get into it. So why were you thinking about sex so much? Well, I was in this. really long-term relationship with our friend Adam.

And then we broke up. Then I was single for a while and kind of like rediscovering like who I am on the dating scene and sexually. And yeah, so there's some comics about that in my book. It must have been so hard because how long were you in that relationship? 15 years, 16 years? That's such a fucking long time. I know.

It was really long. We like grew up together. And then you missed the advent of apps. Well, I was on like, what, okay, Cupid? Oh, okay. Like way back in the day. But yeah. Then I changed.

It's morphed into a terrible beast. I was on a bunch of them. I was on Raya. Okay. How was Raya for you? Horrible. I hated it. So gross.

I really didn't like that. I met some nice guys, but like just nobody. Overall, it's an awful. It's dehumanizing. It is, and it doesn't feel like anyone's there to like actually find a relationship. They're there to like. network to like be seeing on Raya. Yeah.

And then everyone's just like showing their abs and like how sporty they are. And I'm just like, that's not my. That's not me. And I was on hinge and, uh, I tried Field. And yeah, I just, I don't really like the apps. Field to me, I had zero fucking luck. Yeah. Field kept, I kept getting reported one.

Why? People were like, she's impersonating Nicole Byron. Oh, God. And I've said it a hundred. I was out here trying to fuck. Come on. I would impersonate it better. I would be Angela fucking Bassett. Like, I would be somebody better, you

know? Angela Bassett's not better than you, Nicole. Yes, she is. She's so beautiful. She is so beautiful. I just rewatch what's love got to do with it. She does such a fucking good job. Have you ever seen it? No.

Oh, she plays Tina Turner. Oh, my God. And then Lawrence Fishburn plays Ike Turner. Oh, hot. Okay. harrowing. It is good. It is, it's so, you gotta see it. Okay, I don't want to see it. And then if the Tina Turner musical comes back to LA, you gotta go see that. Okay. It's so good. It's like the movie except in your face. Yes. With live music. Yes. That sounds great. What were we talking about? Field. Field scared me because I'd see guys in there and they were just like, I like to strangle

women. I'm like, okay. I mean, cool. I don't mean to kink shame, but like that's so scary. Yeah. That's so scary to me. I do like that it's like, just put out all your weird shit. Yeah. But every time I got reported to get back on, they'd be like, all right, take a picture, holding a book in your left hand, a candle in the right, and wink an eye. I guess it's so I couldn't, like, steal a picture of myself and be like, look, I'm here. So they'd, like, tell you things to do.

It was so weird. But, yeah, I didn't last long on field. And then Hinge, I liked Hinge. How did you meet your current partner? I met him in person. Wow. At a party. A classical.

Yeah. I like to meet people in person because, I don't know, to me, like the in-person vibe is so important and I'm really sensitive to like smell and I just like a lot of guys just don't smell right to me. Is that weird to say? No. No, a lot of them are fucking stinky. Yeah.

Or they just, or they maybe smell good to someone else, but just not to me. Like I need to. Oh, is it like the pheromones you're talking about? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe, yeah, it just needs to be on the right. Interesting. Yeah. And yeah, this guy I met at a party, a friend's birthday party.

I didn't really want to go. But then I was like, Lisa, you got to get out there if we want to meet guys. Put on those tight pants and go to Zebulon. Put on those tight pants, go to Zebulon and dance. Dance. So I met him and I thought he was so cute. And he was talking about how he liked to do pottery. And then he talked about how he did.

gone on like a snowboarding trip with his friends, but he showed a picture on his phone of himself stuck upside down with the board in the air. That's like, okay, great, he's sporty but like not amazing at it. That's perfect. That's funny that you were like this man who's clearly crashed in the snow, he's sporty.

I would be like, not sporty, not sporty at all. But I guess he got out there. I'm like he got out there. That's perfect because I'm on your side. I like to go out and try things, but I'm not going to be good at them. And so it was nice to meet someone on that level. And I just thought he was like the cutest guy

ever and then I DMed him on Instagram and I asked him out. I love that. Yeah, yeah. And then he was like, yeah. Yeah, he was like, yeah, I think there was like a vibe. Let's go through. And then, okay, the crazy thing is that I found out later that he worked on BoJack. Like, we worked together like seven, eight years ago.

Wait, that's wild. Yes, but I didn't know him because he was a storyboarder. He worked in the different building and because I was like, I don't know. I wasn't paying attention. And I was, you know, I was working with the design team. I didn't learn all the storyboarders names. I'm sorry, I'm a bitch. No, you're not a bitch.

Animation has, like, if you think, like, just live action production has so many people, animation has so many more people. There's so many people. It's crazy. I really should learn everyone's names and I have to feel bad about it. He makes fun of me for this, but because he's like, I knew who you were. Well, he should. And he remembers one time, like, I was leaving the building with my dog and he was going in

with his dog and we had like an interaction where I was like, oh, nice dog. And we like, chatted. And he was like, and you were so friendly and nice. And I'm like, oh, wait, have you ever, have you ever asked him? Did he think you were cute then? He kind of, he was like, well, who is this girl? Like, she didn't even bother to like meet me or learn who I was. But then, when we met, he was like, oh, she's so nice. So yeah, I think. That's so wild. I wasn't like, did you want to fuck me right then and there? Lisa, I probably have said that. I would have asked that. I actually. I I actually probably have said that to him.

How long has it been? It's been a minute. Yeah, we've been together now eight months. Yeah, how's the time just like flew by? Time fucking flies. I feel like time is moving very fast and very slow all at the same time. I can't explain it.

I can't. It's bizarre. Yeah, it flew by. You met him. He was on your pole. Yes, he was. He looked good on there. Which sounds crazy, but I have a stripper pole.

It's not that crazy. Yeah. He looked great on that pole. Isn't it kind of weird where you watch a man that you love do pole dancing and you're like, wait, this is like kind of hot? Really hot. Even if it's like not good. Because the nice man in my life, he's like, you know, walked around the pole a couple times and I'm like, oh, that's fun. And then I go, put on the heels.

And he did one time. And how was it? He didn't like it. He said it's too high up. At least he tried it. Yes. And he'll probably never do it again. At least you tried.

You know what? At least you tried. They got to humor you. Real quick, we got to take a break. Your body is your business and no one else gets a say in what you do with it. But if you've been wanting to lose weight and it feels like you're fighting a losing battle on your own, I want you to have support. Weight loss by hers gives you access to FDA-approved GLP-1 medications, including the Wegovi pill and the Wegovi Pen. EGOVi is the first ever GLP1 weight loss medication available as a pill.

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So we didn't have a good time. I hate dating so much because I'm just so, I want to be a slut. Like, I talk about this in the book, how I have like a slutty mind, slutty body. Like I want to. I'm horny. But then I just, I really need. to feel like connected and safe, which I think is normal. It is absolutely normal.

But I like really wanted to fuck around a lot. And then I would get to it and just be like, ooh, it doesn't smell right. It doesn't feel right. I don't like it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that. I'm a slut.

I have been in so many situations where I'm like, hmm, I don't really like what's happening, but I'm going to just do it. I wish I could do that. I'm like, I wish I could just relax and just roll with it and then just like do it for the plot, you know, but it's like, I really need to be having a good time all around. Yeah, but Lisa, when you think about it, like, what is the plot? Like, I fucked a man with an iguana who had a red light in his room and a mattress on the floor. What is the plot? What was the man with the iguana? What? And then you text your friends and you're like,

iguana guy, you know, it's funny. I guess. But I guess you, I definitely got some stories even though I didn't like fuck a ton of guys. Um, yeah. I did some weird guys. Will you tell me a story? Well, I went on a few dates with a guy who I think is a pathological liar and just realizing that as it rolled out, I was like, oh. Because I'm just so gullible. I believe anything anyone says.

What is the thing that was like the indication that you're like, this dude is fucking lying to me? He told some wild stories and I was like, wow, what a raconteur. Wait, what's that word? Like a, like just like a storytelling. No, no, say the word. Rackintour. Reccanture.

Yeah. I think I'm using it right. Raccontour. Raccontour. That's a fun word. It's fun. That's an SAT word. Yeah. I want to bank it in my head and use it wrong later.

Put that in a crossword puzzle. But he said he had been in three major train accidents. And the last one was so wild that the whole train derailed and people died and he broke his clavicles. And then there was a huge class action lawsuit. But then he decided not to take the money. And then Amtrak gave him a lifetime pass to ride the train whenever, wherever. he wants and I was like wow that's wild and then of course I go home and I try to look it up on Wikipedia because if you tell me you're in a major accident where there's a class action lawsuit yeah

I don't think it'd be a class action I think it'd be the passengers on the train I don't think that's enough for a class action right right no a lot of things weren't lining up and I couldn't find the specific thing so then on our second date I was like so where did that happen and when and he was like and he, you know, he was giving me answers kind of vaguely. And then I, but at this point, all my friends are in on it. And they are like, they're nerds. So they're looking it up. They're in the micro-fiche.

Like, they have history about friends. They're like, combing through. Seriously, my friend Kate was like combing through old articles and newspapers, like, because she finds out. I love that. And they're calling him Manic Pixie Train guy. Like, so that's fun. And I realized he had combined several details from several different.

accidents. And I'm just like, why would you do that? That's so weird. That is weird. It's so weird. But I think it was just completely pathological. Like, I don't think he did it for any particular reason. That's like the lady who lied about being in 9-11 and then ran a like, I think a charity foundation or something or something. But she did a lot of good work with her lie. Yeah. That's nice. I don't think this guy is a bad person. He's just not good. He's not good. Because lying about being in an accident is wild.

It's so... Like truly wild. Yeah. And he told a bunch of other... Tell me another one. Well, he just... They were all involved, like, huge lawsuits and massive amounts of money. And then he was sort of the unwitting, like, hero victim of every story.

Did he pay for all the dinners? He did. Yeah. So maybe he did have the funds. You know what? funny is on the and he's like a talent I'm not going to say who I'm not going to have more details but like okay on the way back from the wait do I know him no I don't think so I was walking home from the first date and he texted me yeah it went great she's incredible and then he deleted the text

he unsent it huh I was like huh I think he did that on purpose I think he did that on purpose too he did such weird things like that who is he texting Larry Yeah. Men don't have L names. No, I'm kidding. Larry. He was texting Larry. That's his fake friend.

Fucking funny. It's just weird to me because I, if I tell anything that even remotely resembles a lie, I'm like, I'm just, I'm so. Yeah. I'm almost too honest. Like I kind of, I like have no filter. Like I just say everything all the time that's on my mind. Same. Yeah.

Same. So I'm just like, what is the pathology? to that. That's so weird. Yeah, I don't, I don't get it. And when people lie to me, I'm like, whoa. Yeah. Like, I'm kind of just taking it back and I'm like, uh-oh. You might be bad. You might be, what else are you going to do? What else are you going to do? If you're okay with lying, what are you going to do? Especially like small little dumb lies where I'm like, I know that's not true. Yeah. Huh. And it, how many dates did you go on? Only two. And I, after the second one, I was like, okay, this guy seems crazy, but whatever, strap me to the roller coaster.

Like, nothing else is happening right now. I'm horny. And so I invited him up to my place for a cup of tea. And he was like, no, I don't think so. And I was like, wait, what? And I started laughing. I thought he was kidding. Because I'm like, we just had like a nice dinner and I'm all dressed up.

What the hell? And he was like, I just, I really care about you and I really want to take things slow and not rush things. And I was like, oh, okay. What? And then he ghosted me. Completely ghosted. Whoa. Yeah.

He's like, ill. Yeah. Like sick in the head. That's wild to be like, I want to take things slow. I've told you a bunch of lies. I care deeply about you. Ooh. You'll never hear from me again.

So strange. That is strange. I wonder where he is now, probably in another accident. You need to get on another train. Yeah. Tell me about more dates. A lot of guys just seem like. like not happy. And that was like the biggest turn off to me when a guy just kind of like seems like a bummer.

And like they're not happy with their own life and they're not like having fun. Yeah. Not to sound like a dummy, but I'm just like I want to have fun. No. I have depression and I have like I have like a hormonal mood issue where I'm like Jekyll and Hyde and it's horrible. Wait. Do you have PMDD? I think so. I do. Yeah. And you want to know what's helped? Yeah. Allegra and Peptid AC. Oh, because of the.

Like histamines? Simply don't know. I think so. But I saw a video and I tried it and I have never felt such relief. I'm also on a low dose of lexapro too. That probably helps. And the lexapro helps. But sometimes since the dosage is so low, sometimes I'll be like,

I want to kill. And then I'll take my little pepidacy, Allegra combination. And then I go, huh, I'll kill tomorrow. Like, just kind of like. You put it on your tent. do list. Kill tomorrow. This can wait a day. I should try that because right now I'm just

raw dog in it and it sucks and I just have a few days a month where I'm like I hate everybody including myself and I have demons in my brain and I have to like it's really rough dating because I'm like well if I fall in love this person that I love I'm going to have to be like hey I'm going to be

like hurtful a few days a month well at least you knew it going in I didn't know I had it because I'm pretty good at I guess masking, if you will, like if I feel like that and I'm like, I have a date later, I can like compartmentalize to be like on and like nice.

I can do that a little bit too, but it's tough. Well, when the nice man moved in, I was like, huh, well, I don't like you. Like there's just be a couple days where I'd be like, ew. Yeah. Like, you be like, do you want a cup of water? And I'd be like, do you look,

do it look thirsty to you? Like, it was really unreasonable. He was like out of his hand. Yeah. Like truly unreasonable. And they're like, ah, who are you? Yes. It was wild.

Okay, good. It's not just me. It really makes me feel like a terrible person. Yes. Like I'm like vicious. Yeah. And I have demons. Yeah.

It's awful. So I need to try something. I think you should try that. It's over the counter. It's easy, breezy. And it might not help. I don't know. Yeah.

And maybe it's a placebo. Maybe it's like I saw it online. And then I did it. And I was like, It does feel related to like inflammation and histamines and stuff. It really feels like that's when I started to accept it more when I realized it was very physical. It wasn't just mental. Like something is physically happening to my body that makes me like that.

I don't really understand it. And doctors are just like, I literally had a gynecologist be like, women are crazy. Was it a woman or a man? He was a gay man who said that. And he's so funny and I love him. But I was like, you can't say that. Is he in Beverly Hills? No.

Oh. I was like, is it? kind of college is because I go to a gay man. He's a real treat though. I love him. Mine's a treat too, but I'm like, you can't say that. No, you absolutely can't. You can't say women are crazy. Did he do it while he was like doing the past near?

Because that would be really fun if he was just like inside he going, women would be crazy. Women are crazy. Boop, boop, boop. God. But anyways, I get depressed. And so I'm like, I don't want to be with a partner who's just like also negative. Yes. They can be down.

And like they can be, you know, people have ebbs and flows. I don't need him to be Mr. Happy all the time. He can be cranky, but he just has to have like a somewhat optimistic outlook on life. And he has to have hobbies and friends and want to go out and do fun stuff because I get bored easily. I dated a man with no friends. And it was wild to me. Yeah. I was like, so we're just, it's just us.

We're just in this to get. That's it. And then at one point I was like, you got to get into therapy because you're telling me the problems you have with me. and then I can't be objective about it because I am me. It was very confusing and I didn't like it. That sounds like such a drag. Hell on earth, it was.

Yeah, I was in something like that that was like a bit toxic and like just I was like, oh, every time we have a problem it's because you hate your mom. And like, and I remind you of her and your ex-wife and yeah, it's just like, well, I watched just an itty-bitty part of a TED talk and I didn't finish it

So I don't even know if this is the actual thing the man was trying to say. He was like, in relationships, you're looking, you're like, the reason why people go for people who remind them of their parents is because that's the first relationship they saw. So you're just trying to, and that feels safe.

Even if it was toxic, that feels like home and that feels like safety to you. Yeah. So you're just chasing after that. Which is like, can our brains like unfuck up? Like, what the fuck? That's so wild. It's like a puzzle that you haven't solved yet.

So you're like, let me go back and try to solve that puzzle by going to that same kind of person again and again. Yeah, it's like, it's wild. It is, and it makes absolutely no sense. Yeah, I'm glad we're not with those people anymore. It's nice to be with people who are nice. It is nice to be with people who are nice.

Someone who's nice to me and thinks I'm a nice person. Yes. It means a lot to me. Yes, we were talking last night about how sometimes we feel like we're on eggshells because we don't want to make the other person upset and then have them leave. Yeah. And then he was like, yeah, I think we're both, like, fucked up. And he's like, I got to, I like, keep telling myself that we have both chosen this.

We've chosen each other and we love each other. And I was like, yes, that is something I also have to do because I'm like, what if he wakes up on a Tuesday? And he goes, you stupid bitch, kicks me out of the bed, spits in my head and the leaves. I'm so afraid of that happening. I'm always so afraid of like, well, it's because like breaking up was really hard. And but it was like a very amicable breakup. And like Adam was a great boyfriend.

We had a wonderful relationship. And it just like, we turned 40 and went insane and like, that's basically what we had a midlife crisis. And it wasn't like anyone's fault. But like it still feels rough to have, it still feels like, oh my God, it failed. Even though some relationships just need to end. Yeah. So I have that kind of where I'm like, oh, I don't want this new one to fail for the same reasons or whatever. Like I got to like maintain it.

I got to make sure not to make the same mistakes again. And like, so I'm kind of like hypervigilant sometimes. That does get exhausting, and I do think you need to give yourself a break because it's like, this is a whole different, this is what my therapist has said to me. This is a whole different person. So there is no way you can actually make the same mistakes because they're going to react a different way. Yeah. And it's okay to make mistakes and your right person will work through those mistakes. Totally.

It's kind of like how do you work through the mistakes? Because the last like relationship I was in, when I made a mistake, he like would not let it go. And he would bring it back up again months later. It was like he had, he was like a lawyer with a list of my crimes. And he would like pull him out and corner me on him. And it felt so bad. Yeah. Of course it fucking feels bad.

That's awful. Yeah, because I'm like, I know I'm not a, I'm not the best, but I'm not the, like, I'm not the worst. I'm trying. And I'm going to fuck up sometimes and like be in a bad mood or like snap at you or whatever. And it doesn't, I don't know. And so, yeah, I'm like hypervigil, like, I don't know.

Whenever people are nice to me to, too. I'm like, well, this is great for now, but like, when's the other shoe going to drop? Like, when's he going to stop bringing me flowers, you know, that kind of thing. I dated a man who liked to bring up stuff from, like, the past when we were fighting about something. And I'd be like, but it's not about that. Yeah. And then he was like, it's cumulative. I'm not saying that word, right?

Cumulative. Humulative. That's fucked up. And I was like, how is that fair? I don't bring up your shit. It was, that was messy, too. Like if I hate that because it's like, well, if you do another infraction, then we're, it's like a constant threat hanging over you. And he would also do a thing where I'd be like, oh, are you sleeping over tonight?

And you go, no, you did X, Y, and Z earlier. And that made me upset. And I'd be like, punishing you. I love that. Thank you so much. Yeah, it was awful. Thank you for treating me like a dog. Right?

God. And I never got the treats. I only got reprimanded and a lot of pointing out. I did it a guy who like, I did it. I started to get upset when he was snuggling my dog because I was jealous because he was so, like, cold to me and he was nicer to my dog than he was to me. And I was like, why don't you, like, hug and kiss me? You only snuggle my dog. He was so cold and not affectionate.

And I thought I could fix him with pussy. And I feel like I got close. And he was like, I said dog, not pussy. I'm not a pussy person. I had a man say that to me He was like, you're more affectionate With your dog than me And this was our second or third date

What? Maybe fourth? It wasn't deep in it And I said to him, I was like, well, I know him I'm getting to know you, I'm sorry I could be more affectionate A few dates in, that's crazy I thought so

Well, I mean, in hindsight, yes But at the time I was like Oh, I have to do better But I'm also showing affection Is hard for me Yeah Like, PDA is weird unless like I'm drunk. But I mean, I've gotten over that.

But, like, rubbing someone's back didn't feel natural to me. Yeah. And that was something I just had to learn. Yeah, different people express it in different ways. But I do need, yeah, I realized I need to be with someone who, like, acts like they like me. That's important to me and, like, wants to touch me and kiss me. That's really important. Yes.

Because some people just don't do that. They're not affectionate with each other. Yeah. And they're okay with it. but I need someone who's affectionate to me. Yeah, I need it. So can I ask about opening up, wait, we should take another break. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace.

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Lisa, when you opened up your relationship with Adam, was that? Because I have talked about this on the podcast before that everyone I know who has opened up their relationship like several years into it, is looking for something and it becomes like a means to an end and people in comments have been like you're wrong and I'm like but it's my experience so I can't be wrong because it's my experience yeah um was it like issues that you guys were having and you decided to open it up or was it like

we want adventure I think it was both I think you know we'd been together so long that we were like roommates and besties but you know the sex was not as exciting And I was, it kind of started with me being like, hey, sometimes this guy texts me and it makes me feel like excited and I feel really, really guilty about that. And he was like, I think that's wonderful. That's so great. And I was like, oh, okay, so are we allowed to flirt

and text other people? And he was like, yeah, like let's, I'm kind of curious about that too. And I've been wanting to tell you that, but I felt guilty. And I'm like, okay, cool, we're on the same page. So we started doing that. And then he started to be like, I want to do more than that. and I was like uh-oh and I kind of had a freak out because I was like this is the end like this is because I don't think I can handle him being with someone else but we like got a couple's therapist and we read all the books and I threw some of them across the room because I was like the books would be like you have to get used to the idea that you are not special and I'm like no I'm special sorry wait that book well I don't like that's tough I think it's like the non hierarchical kind of approach.

Or everyone's kind of equal. I guess where you don't have to be the like number one primary. And I'm like, no. Yeah. It doesn't work for me. I'm sorry. Yeah, that would bother me as well. Yeah.

It was tough because I didn't really want to open our relationship, but I also didn't want to hold him back from something that he clearly needed. It felt like unfinished business. Like we, you know, and I clearly wasn't happy either. Like I was having some kind of, you know, flirtation with other people. And so we just were kind of after months and months of just, we were just like, let's do it. Let's go crazy.

And for a while, it kind of seemed like it would work perfectly. And then it didn't. It worked until it didn't. It kind of like, I kind of knew. I'm like, I'm an idiot and I have a big dumb heart and I just get carried away. And I knew that that would happen. And it did. But it's funny.

We talk about how it was like painful and stuff. But at the same time, we were both kind of like, we like, wow. Well, I don't know. I haven't experienced this, but what it seems like from the outside is opening the relationships, it allows you to mourn the relationship you're in currently while exploring something new and exciting. Yeah. So it's sad but happy, sad but happy. And you do kind of, we did feel compersion or whatever that word, like happiness for the other person in getting to explore, you know,

because like we love each other so much and wanted that for each other. So I don't know, it's like really complicated. It's the kind of thing from the outside. It's very easy to like be like, this person's bad, this person's good. Or these two idiots fucked up and like, yeah, we're idiots for sure. But also like I don't really,

I don't think either of us regrets any of it. Like we just did what we had to do and it was messy and whatever. Also 15 years is a very long time. To be happy for most of 15 years is incredible. And I think it's like, my therapist again, she says every relationship has a lesson. And sometimes a lesson is good, sometimes a lesson is bad. Also, oh, wait, she also said sometimes relationships are just, they're meant to be enjoyed until they're not.

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess maybe that's the lesson. And then, like, we're still friends. Like, you know, we're like carpooling to Robin concert. Like it's the Robin concert. You went in so Robin? Yeah. I'm so jealous. Oh, really? You didn't go?

No, I don't think I was in town. I can't remember why I didn't go. Tell me about your book. I can't stop thinking about horses and sex. It's about exactly what you'd think of being about. Well, I tried to make a book about horses. And then I was like, what is this? This is missing something. And then I had like a whole midlife crisis. And I'm like, oh, it's about me and relationships and my life. And it's sort of a memoir kind of thing. but it's like vignettes, you know. And then it circles back around to horses, of course. Have you always been a horse girl?

And do you consider yourself a horse girl? I was a cat girl and then kind of like got into horses when I was like six and begged my parents for riding lessons. And yeah, I'm a horse girl for sure. But not in like a cute way. Like I would like crawl around on all fours until I grew calluses on the tops of my feet. And like I was really, it wasn't cute. Wait, I really like that that's really funny to me.

I thought I was a horse. Like I, yeah, it was really annoying. At least you're not like the hobby horse girls. No offense, if you're a hobby horse girl who listens. Have you seen hobby horse girls? I have and blessed their hearts. I love it. I'm kind of obsessed with that.

I kind of love it. Because none of them have a smile on their face. They all look deeply, deeply, intensely serious with a stick between their legs. Yeah. One of my friends, an adult friend, bought one of those hobby horses and she like took it out at night in Prospect Park and rode it around. And I was like, and she's like, I got a second one. So I'm like, okay, next time I visit, I will go with you.

And I will do this in night. Listen. I will. Why not? That's funny. That seems fun. I like that. I like it.

I think it's the competition aspect that like kind of turns me off where I'm like, oh, you're so serious about it. But like, same. A midnight hobby horse and? Yeah. Like a witch in the park and people are like, did I just see, did I just see two 40-somethings like go riding by on fake horses? I love that.

I was never into competition. like with real horses or otherwise. You have a horse. I have a pony, but yeah, we've never won any ribbons. We're not good at anything. What is the difference between a horse and a pony? Oh, it's just the size. So she's really short, but she is, like, strong.

She's horse-powered. She's horse-powered. She's single horse-powered. I've only ridden a horse once in my youth, and then once when I hosted Kimmel, we went and saw the Compton Cowboys. That's right. I remember you met the Compton Cowboys. It was so exciting. So fucking cool. And they do a lot of good work. If you have the money, donate to them.

But yeah, it's just like they take inner city kids. Like, do we call inner city kids? Inner city kids. Yeah, city kids. They teach them how to write horses and have like a thing to do. Which is so good for kids. It is. It's so cool. But they put me on this great big horse that had a great big dick. And he showed me his dick. And I was like, oh my god this horse thinks I'm hot you're flattered I kind of was

in the most insane way I was like I did that but galloping maybe I didn't hit a gallop you might have cantered canter's like a slow

gallop like kind of like it's like a little more controlled gallop is like really really fast okay so maybe I hit a canter or a lope a lope

It's a lope in Western canter in English. I love that you know all this. I know so much stuff. It's like the lore is so deep. They told me to go with the horse, but I was like, I don't understand it because I was going opposite and then slamming down on this horse. And then I kept screaming at him like, are you okay? Because I was like, I'm a big person on you. But I think the horse was fine.

He was good. Oh, well, it's so wild. Wow. It's hard to learn how to do that. I'm still like, yeah, canter's rough sometimes. And my horse, her canter is a little rough. It feels a little like a shopping cart with the wheel gone off. That's very funny. Yeah. What's your horse's name? Junie. Juniper. Oh, that's so sweet. Yeah. This is a very, very rude question. Go for it. And we can cut it out. I'm not going to be offended. How much is a horse? Oh, so they can be kind of any price. They can be free, but they cost a lot to cancel. keep because you have to rent them their own apartment and like feed them tons of hay and the

price of hay has gone up with the price of gas and wait really yeah it's gone up like crazy so like hay and gas are like a yeah i think so because the fuel to like transport the hay and it takes a lot of water so they're like they do suck up a lot of resources um but you can you can also get a horse for like a million dollars um so my horse was ten thousand dollars wow yeah okay that's not as crazy as I thought it was going to be. No, but then it's you, the upkeep. The housing and, yeah. How often do you visit your horse?

Several times a week. Like, I've gone, like, every day the last week because I just moved her to a new barn, so I want to make sure she's all settled and stuff. The fun thing about moving her to the new barn is I just hopped on and rode her to the new barn because I don't have like a car big enough to take her. Very funny. I don't have a trailer. That's so funny.

You're just like, all right, so we're moving. Yeah. It's like, all right. Yeah. And she's like, oh, this is my new house? Okay. Oh. Do you paint this, I sound, I feel like I sound dumb.

Do you like decorate a barn? I kind of want to paint her stall with like grass and like trees and stuff because I think she would like that. But I can't because I'm renting. Oh, if you own the barn, you could do it. But I did just order like a sign on Etsy with her name and it's like sparkly green and I like just want to do it up. I love that.

Yeah. And all her stuff is like pink like Barbie style. Well, because people think she's a boy. and I'm like, I just want to make sure they know she's a girly girl. It doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter, but also I do like that you're like, no. She's a mare. She's a girl.

Yeah, it's important that she's a mare. I don't care. People think Clyde is a girl all the time. And I just use whatever pronouns they use because he's got a purple tail and a glitter collar. Yeah. And a little flamingo and a rainbow, little charm on his collar. and he's just, he's so spry and cute. He's so cute.

He's a really cute dog. Thank you. Sometimes I call him Collida. If someone's like, she's so cute, what's her name? I go, collida. Kalida. A collide for sure. Lisa, I have another question.

Okay. Would you date me? Yes. I think we'd have so much fun together. I think we'd have fun too. It's funny. I think on the first time I was on the podcast in 2018, I said no. Because I was just like, I'm not sure if we'd be compatible.

I just, you know, and I'm like, just don't overthink it. Just say yes to fun. Oh, I love it. Just say yes to fun. I also have another question. Can I go meet your horse? June, right? Junie, yes.

She's so charismatic and funny. You would love her. What's her weight limit? Let's see, I did put my boyfriend on her and she was like, she was literally groaning. Okay. Because she's pretty small. Okay, then I can't get on her.

But they, but I will. There are horses in that neighborhood that you can rent. Like they have like different weight limits at the like the rental places and they've, they've got like bigger horses, smaller horses. Like they've got all sizes. Yeah. So like you could rent a horse. I could like say hello to other horses while I'm there.

You could rent a horse. Yeah. You could go for a ride in the park. Here's the thing. Sometimes I just want to say hello to a horse. You could just say hello. You don't have to ride. Because that's a whole thing.

I don't know how to put on a harness and stuff or the saddle. The saddle. Even I, I often just go to vibe and say hi and walk her around and because I'm like, I don't feel like riding today. That's a whole thing. But yeah, you should come meet her. How far away is she? She's in Burbank because she's so close.

Okay. Wait, is this a text from Adam? Yes. To you? So this was like, Miranda July was running dating profiles on her blog, on her substack. And she asked me to do one. It's called Beguiled. And one of the prompts in it is text an X and ask them to describe you for this dating

profile. So I did that and Adam obliged. Lisa is a bossy bottom with a heart of gold. A sensitive sweetie with a sensitive stomach. Her belly tolerates no gluten, but maximum laughs. She has an ass that does not quit and will tell you which paintings in the museum are boring and suck. She is the best road trip buddy and will never turn down a bathroom break when you need one. She loves chicken, but don't make it for her. That's my

thing. And that's what you said. Isn't that sweet? That is very sweet. Yeah. I wonder what my nice man would say about me. Probably nothing good. Just kidding.

Let's see. Ooh, cartoons about dating. Never mind. What's cute is after I did that dating profile, that's right when I started seeing my nice man that I'm seeing. And then he, like, without telling me, went and, like, filled out the dating profile so that it would show up on my thing. And that was very cute. Oh. You guys are really cute together and he's so nice and good to you.

Thanks. I'm happy that you're in a happy relationship. Yeah, I really like him. I hope it lasts. But it's okay if it doesn't. I hope it keeps going well. And when does your book come out? It comes out October 20th.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1020. Okay. If you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me, stay tuned for part two next week where I'll be interviewing Adam Conover to hear his side of it. the story. Did you know? Yeah, I knew. Okay, good. Wouldn't it be funny if you didn't?

And you're like, what? Oh my God. Betrayal. You can like the, you could like why won't you date me, you could rate it. No, it's written and I'm having trouble. You can like it, follow it, rate at five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcast. You tell a friend, you can recommend the show on Reddit. It actually helps the show out. And if you write me something nasty hitting on me, I will read it and you have to write it to the email address, why won't you date me podcast at gmail.com. Mars will read it and then she'll type it out and then I'll read it. We're running low. We need more and keep it nasty. Nicole, forget nailed it. I want to nail you. You'll wear nothing but an apron and I'll provide the piping bag. I want to massage your magnificent dough,

glaze your beautiful cakes and eat your pussy like it's the signature challenge. We'll get so hot and heavy that the kitchen fills with smoke and I won't stop pumping until we both explode into a sticky frosting covered mess and I whisper, what a treat, what a dream from Dawn. Thanks, Don. See you later. Goodbye. That was a head gum podcast.