Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Lesbian Sex (w/ Ashley Gavin)

Episode Date: April 28, 2023

Comedian Ashley Gavin (host of We're Having Gay Sex) teaches Nicole all about lesbian sex and relationships. They cover scissoring and tribbing, having secret girlfriends in high school, and the details of her open relationship. Ashley also shares her experience being the first openly gay comedian on Carnival Cruise Line, and the homophobia she encountered on the job. Nicole witnesses a bouncer get stabbed at a lesbian bar. Watch Ashley's new comedy special at: youtube.com/watch?v=Ay6jUYPH644& Submit your dirty message for Nicole!  Send it to [e-mail] for a chance to have it read on-air. Follow Nicole Byer: Twitter: @nicolebyerInstagram: @nicolebyerMerch: podswag.com/datemeNicole's book: indiebound.org/book/9781524850746

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why! Ooh, baby, welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Day Be A Podcast, where me, Nicole Byer, is just trying to figure out love. I've been trying to figure out why I'm single. I've done the podcast for too long, no answers, so we're just trying to figure out what the

fuck love is. Okay, my guest today is a hilarious comedian that's been featured on Comedy Central, Netflix, and Hlr. She's the host of the podcast We're Having Gay Sex. Her new comedy special is now available on YouTube. It is Ashley Gavin! Hey, thank you. Hello. First of all, great, great intro.

Thank you. Hey, thank you. Maybe one of the best ever. Wait, really? Thank you. First of all, great, great intro. Thank you. Hey, thank you. Maybe one of the best ever. Wait, really? Thank you so much. I tend to have a lot of energy. I'm a little raspy because I climbed the stairs too fast two days ago. That'll do it.

Especially from all the screaming as you're walking up the stairs. Well, I was like breathing, not heavy. Cause I was like, cause it was at the Glendale Galleria. And I was like, I can't let all these shoppers know that I'm out of breath climbing these stairs. So I was trying real hard not to let them know. And I was going really fast and I got lightheaded. And then I had like an asthma attack

and I haven't stopped coughing since. Isn't that fun? Oh, I'm so sorry. Whenever I'm going up the subway stairs, I let everyone know around i'm grunting uh what is it about so i don't know how the galleria stairs are but the subway stairs are definitely specifically engineered it feels like no matter how many there are you're out of breath at the top of them yeah so the galleria stairs are like uh

i can't remember which train you take when you go to West 4th and then there's two sets of stairs. Well, four sets of stairs because you got one, then two, then three, then fucking four. Yeah. BDFM. Exactly. Ashley, I have a question. Are you single, dating, married?

Don't want to say because that is an option. It is an option. My podcast is called We're Having Gay Sex, so there's nothing off the table, really. I think it's so funny when people are like, if there's something you don't want to talk about, I'm like, my asshole has been fully bared to the entire internet. So I'm dating. I have a girlfriend and we have talked about when we're going to get engaged. So I feel a little bit engaged. I feel a little bit. We're on the track.

It is nice. It's very nice. I did not think it was going to happen. How did you meet? And why didn't you think? Wait, first, why didn't you think it was going to fucking happen? Because I'm 35. I don't know.

I think you just hit a certain age and you're like, ah, this is never. You know what I mean? Wow. I don't know. I'm 52 years old and I've never given up hope. You look phenomenal. Thank you. I actually just don't know how old I am. Do you want to take a moment? No. I have to Google it every time someone asks me because I refuse to remember. You have to look at those actor facts thing that's like Nicole Byer, six foot five, 300 years old. But yeah, I met this woman. Her name's Jen. She's lovely.

I met her right before the pandemic at the I don't know if you know it, Nicole, the Grizzly Pear in New York City. I feel like I do know it. It's hell. It's down the street from the Comedy Cellar, and when people don't have tickets to the cellar, they go into the pear. Yes, yes, yes. Because there's some horrible comedian barking on the street to get them in.

I met her at the midnight show a little after my set at probably around one in the morning before the pandemic. And we dated into the pandemic and we broke up because we have an age gap. So what's the age gap? Eight years. Pretty significant. She's younger or older.

She's younger. So she was like, she was like, I'm, you know, queer out. I want to, you know, so my wild gay oats. And I was like, of course, like, how could we were very in love and we didn't have problems in the relationship. But how could I tell her no to that? You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, how could I how could I be angry at her for that?

At least that's how I felt. Would you ever do an open relationship? So then years later, we met again. We're still in love. I don't think either one of us really fell out of love. Wait, how many years went by that you broke up? About a year and a half. Dang. I think. Okay. I guess I said years later, like it was like. Yeah, I was like, I mean, Okay. I guess I said years later, like it was like. Yeah, I was like, I mean, was it four?

Was it 10? Was it 30? Yeah. How many years? Well, I hope it's not 10, given how old I am. Yeah, bad math is bad math. Yeah, that would be very bad math. But we met again and I was like, well, where are you at?

Because I'm not going to go into this again, you know, me being ready for marriage, you not and getting hurt again. And she was like, you know, I really think you're my person. I'm just kind of scared and not ready yet. So we were like, OK, let's make a mistake. Let's start hooking up and still see other people and kind of see what happens. And it turned out it actually turned out not to be a mistake and what it led into is now we're in an open relationship um and it's been very successful for us so yeah it all worked out and thank god thank god because i was really like i'm never gonna meet i really thought she was the love of my life the first go around so i was like this is frustrating if frustrating if we don't get back together. That's a nice little treat. So do you guys have like rules to the open relationship? Or is it just like, whatever goes, goes, baby.

We have some rules. It's basically like just hookups. It's like no other relationships, no other serious dating. Just kind of like, you can see the same person again, but we're trying to limit emotional attachment. Kind of keep that out of the picture, yeah.

I see. That makes sense. My cat is rubbing up against the monitor right now if you see this kind of moving around. I thought it was my dog for a second and I was a little confused. I was like,

wait, how did he get over there? But he's on the bed having a great time. He's the cutest. He has a purple tail. And people constantly ask me, is that natural? And I'm like, where have we fallen so far from the grace of God that people think that dogs are naturally purple. It's also like an unnatural purple. It's just very confusing. And then everyone misgenders him. And they're like, oh, you're a cute little girl dog. It's rude. I'm kidding. I shouldn't make jokes about it.

It is important to some people. I personally call him whatever you want. No, they want shouldn't make jokes about it. It is important to some people. I personally call me whatever you want. No, they want you to make jokes about it. They want you to make jokes about it. I don't know. They do. They do. I promise.

As someone who doesn't care, because I get misgendered on planes all the time, I get called sir a lot. Do you really? Yes. Because I usually fly without a wig, without makeup. I'm wearing like a little hat. I don't have titties. And they'll be like, sir, what would you like to drink?

And I'm like, a Vodka Soda. And they're like, I'm so sorry, ma'am. And I'm like, hey, as long as you bring me my drink, call me whatever. As long as I'm hammered, I won't notice what you're saying to me right now. I don't give a shit. I used to get misgendered when I was younger

because when I would play Call of Duty, because I'm that, I would play on Xbox and I would have a headset and my voice is on the lower side. So the boys that I was playing Xbox against would like call me gay as an insult. They'd hear my voice and be like, gay? And it's because they thought I was a boy with a high voice. And I was like, well, well, kind of, but not quite.

Not the gay you think, dum-dums. Wait, so you have lived in New York City your whole life. Yeah. So when did you start dating? Oh man, I had secret girlfriends in high school. Oh my God. I had two secret girlfriends. What a dream. I don't know that life. What is it like to have a secret girlfriend in high school? Some would say traumatic. We just like when you're when you're a kid in in New York City, where did you grow up? I grew up in New Jersey. Beautiful, beautiful New Jersey. Well, maybe I don't know how far from the city you were, but it was like really fun, I think, to be like a teen in New York City, a horny teen in New York City, because there were so many places that you could go and, you know, you could go and make out.

But when you're gay, you can't do that. So there's like super limited options as to if you live in a suburb, you can go in New York. I don't know. I was scared. I was just so scared that people were going to see. And also, like, it wasn't even about getting caught from someone I know. It was like, even if a stranger thought I was gay, I was getting caught. You know what I mean? Cause it was like, it was me. It was someone seeing me being gay. Um, so it was a little scary and you know, you, you were worried your friends would find out and they wouldn't like want to invite you to their slumber thing yeah yeah that makes sense yeah it felt like it was scary like there's a whole section of the city where there's a street literally called gay street why don't you just go down the i know so weirdly i feel

this is so fucked up i didn't like know about that like i didn't i didn't know gay new york culture it was because the internet just wasn't like as big a thing back then so I didn't I didn't know gay New York culture it was because the internet just wasn't like as big a thing back then so I didn't have like gay role models on the internet I didn't have like gay people on tv I had no idea like when my friends brought me down we went down to um search and destroy that like thrift shop on St. Mark's Place like we went down there once. That was like the first time I had gone to like the village. Like I just didn't go down there ever. So it was like very new to me, the whole thing. And I was like kind of terrified. I mean, that makes sense. I remember the first time I went to the city and we went to the village and I saw like all the rainbow flags I was like wait a

minute oh my god is everybody gay down here and I was like what a treat I love it and I saw like my first drag show I think I like 19 or something and then I was like oh I gotta live here and then moved to New York when I was 20 and then truly just had the time of my life. Yeah. New York is truly just a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful place. Okay. So when did you stop having secret girlfriends and when did you bring them into the light? Yeah. Specifically, that's how I said it to my mom. I was like, mom, here's the thing.

I have to bring, I have to bring my girlfriend into the light. I came out when I was, when I was in college, I kind of came into the light. I came out when I was in college. I kind of came out to myself, and I came out to my friends and the people around me. I had a college girlfriend whose name was also Jen. We call her Old Jen, just to separate the difference. I know. It's so fucked up. I hate it.

I literally want to jump off the roof. Are you still friends with Old Jen? Yeah, a little bit. We keep in touch. Oh, I don't keep in touch with any of the people I dated. This is again, I have no idea what they're doing. This is like a gay thing and maybe specifically a lesbian thing. Because our pools are really small.

And also like, I think it's just easier to have same sex friendships. Not like for everybody exclusively, but I think you're like more likely to reach a point, but I'm not friends with my last two exes. Those are pretty, those are pretty silent. That's pretty radio silence. I see. I,

um, have you ever been to Henrietta Hudson's? Yeah. I went there last time I was in New York. Cause do you know Christy Cello? Yes, of course. I love Christy.

She was like, Nicole, there is a sign over here that I want to take a picture in front of. And I was like, OK, Christy. And then she was like, OK. And then she's like, let's go inside. And I was like, you know, it's a lesbian bar, right? She's like, how do you know? And I was like, I don't know. It's a famous lesbian bar. And she was like, is it? So we went and had wine. We were inside. She's like, it is a lesbian but it was the funniest experience i've had because she's so funny her voice is so funny to me she's

the she's so fucking funny um also spot on impression if anyone wants to know what christian cello sounds like you nailed it thank you usually i could could do better when I'm not suffering from the staircase asthma. No, you're killing it. You're killing it. If you had to play Christy Cello in a biopic, I think we could. If we had a really good makeup artist, I think you could do it. I wonder if people would try to cancel me for doing white face. They'd be like, no, we got to get rid of her.

I don't, I don't know that there was that movie. There was, I know it was a long time ago, but there's white, there was white chicks. That was such a long time ago. I wonder if we could do white chicks now.

And then also there's a Michael Jackson biopic. He was not a white person, but the black actor that they had, they put the whitest makeup on and it looks so haunting yeah yeah well i mean he he looked pretty haunting as well toward towards the the end so but you know a little uh slightly a little so okay when did you decide that you were like in love and then had you been in love before oh my god nicole i'm chronically in love i'm i'm literally i am a simp i am uh you know i u-hauled with like every girl that i had ever dated i took a year i literally took a year off from dating. How do you do that?

How do you, you haul every girl that you've date? You live in New York city. It's hard to break a lease in New York. Yeah. It's fucking hard to break a lease in New York city. And then I'm the one, I'm the one paying this fucking rent.

I'm always the one. Um, it took me 10 months to get my, my previous ex out of my apartment. Wait, 10 months? It took forever. Wait a minute. Why did it take 10 months?

Because I'm a simp. I have no backbone. I have no spine. Because I didn't put my foot down and I was just like, take your time. Like, find the right place. She was like between jobs. It was a mess. It was a total mess.

It was a mess. 10 months? This is like, now it was a mess it was a total mess it was a mess 10 months this is like i now i don't move it now i have like a rule for myself i don't move in with people i like till i'm engaged like formally engaged that's like that's a good rule it's a great just really stuck on this 10 months specifically because it's like we're we broke up so why am i staying oh my god she okay no offense um to people who are listening who might be friends with this person but she bad she's not good that's awful i am so God bless. I just like can't imagine. And you're not like the first and only person where that's happened to where like the other person just won't leave.

I just don't understand that. You know what I should have done? I should have been like, hey, I'm packing up your things. After a certain amount of months, I think there are 10. Certainly you're allowed to be like, it is time. I'm going to move your things into storage if you do not find a place. And I'm so sorry to do it this way, but it is time.

Yeah. That's what I should have done. Dude, I was so nice about it. You were too nice. I'm shook. Yeah, there's another side to every story. And like the breakup, there are definitely things that I regret. But on this specific matter, I was quite nice.

I was quite good. Too, too nice. Because it's not like, it's not like Ashley's wayward home for girls. You gotta get out of here. Can't be here. Children. Wait, I have a question. You worked as a software engineer at MIT.

Yeah. Yeah. I worked at a research lab there. So wait, like you're smart and stuff. That sounded rude. No, no, no. I get it. I understand.

I get it. For someone who let someone live in her apartment for 10 months. I definitely have too high an IQ. Not that. But like MIT, I feel like is really smart. live in her apartment for 10 months i definitely have too too high an iq not that but like mit i feel like is really smart i didn't go to like real college so like i just know that like mit seems to be the smartest of all of them it's pretty smart i did not i will say i didn't get into college there i worked there and at a research lab what does that mean well they have a lot of labs that they develop you know different

technologies at and some of them are more academic and some of them are more like i worked so the one that i worked at was a national security research lab so there's a lot of like government crossover so we worked on like um stuff for the government mostly, that sounds like fun and cool. It was not. I mean, I quit for, I'm here doing this shit for, this is way more fun and cool. I would rather work on my Christy Cello impression, you know, for no reason than ever write another line of code.

Although if you're doing that, like good for you, women in STEM, yada, yada. You write code? Yeah, I wrote code code i don't even know what that means i know and there's no reason that you should yeah you make internet things anytime that you open any computer device any phone an ipad anything that has electricity running through it there's some code in there god maybe besides a light bulb but even light bulbs are starting to get smart oh a smart light bulb yeah yeah smart it's funny because like i don't know shit about any of that stuff and my dad wrote code but he didn't pass it on to me really what kind of stuff did he work on he like the way your build on your phone is a thing that he like helped develop um but like

he worked at at&t i was about to ask But like he worked at AT&T. I was about to ask you if he worked at AT&T because they had a huge thing in New Jersey. Yes. They had like a big Bell Labs. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

He started at Bell Labs and then. Your listeners are turning this off as we speak. They're literally like, I wanted lesbian sex. What the fuck is this? Bell Labs. Well, real quick, we're gonna take a break. But when we come back, we'll talk about lesbian sex. Okay, we're back. Let's talk about lesbian sex. What's your favorite thing about lesbian sex?

I love that necessity is the mother of invention. So when you're straight, there's a way that you're supposed to do it. You know what I mean? And even when you're a gay man, there's a way that you're quote unquote supposed to do it. But because female sexuality is so unexplored and like, you know, like it's kind of the, a butt of a joke. Like men can't find the clit.

Like, you know, a lot of women never orgasm. So it's like really unexplored. So like, there's a lot more creativity that can go back that you can like, you're much more free. You know what I mean?

That's what I, that's what I love about it. I don't know if that makes sense visually. It makes sense. I think it makes sense. You can get weird. You can get weird. You could do a lot of,

you know what's really interesting? When people talk about scissoring, because I'm like, the act of scissoring seems cumbersome. It does seem cumbersome. I've never done it. I've done it a lot. And it's not cumbersome? It's not cumbersome. I've never done it. I've done it a lot. And it's not cumbersome?

It's not cumbersome. But the thing is that it really depends, just like when you're having sex with any partner, it really depends on the person, especially when it comes to people with vulvas, clitorises, women, whatever. Like, first of all, scissoring is not what you what like the media and porn has like it. The better term is called tripping. Do not Google it if you are at work.

Wait, what's it called? Tripping? Tripping. T-R. You're Googling it right now. T-R-I-B-B-I-N-G. Yes. So basically, if you read a sex, if you read any kind of book about sex, particularly, particularly like the female sex organs, there's going to be a lot of dedication to friction.

And like if you're like, what does that mean? It's fingering. Right. Like when you touch a girl's clit, that's that's friction. But you can apply friction from like any part of your body. But you can apply friction from like any part of your body. When you're dry humping, that's, that's, that's tripping. Dry humping is tripping and straight people do that. So there's all different types of positions that you can do to, to like take it to the next level. In my brain, there was only one way you could do it, but then I Googled it and I saw many different options.

And then to me now, it doesn't seem that hard thank you for enlightening me for whatever reason I get like ideas in my head where I go that's the only way to do it I can't like well that happens with sex it does happen with sex because you watch a porn

or two and then you go that's it this guy was trying to do male female script sorry i cut you off no no it's fine i'm trying to figure out how to phrase it he like oh we were laying down like spooning and he wanted to like like fuck me that way and i was like my butt's too big it certainly won't fit no thank you and then he was like just let me try it and i was like no thank you i'm so sorry god bless and then he like he was like just let me and I was like okay and then it worked and I was like oh okay well like I guess that's a new way I can have sex yeah even if he were to like have sex with you that way and he couldn't get as deep

there are plenty of women that actually like enjoy a shallower penetration they don't like it as deep. So like for some people, that's actually like preferable. I mean, I like any old penetration. I also like when my boobies are honked and a lot of ladies apparently don't like that. I hooked up with a lady and I was honking on her titties and she was like,

you're spending a lot of time on them. Are you queer? No, I don't identify. It's very, very stupid. I don't talk about

queer experiences enough or have them enough and I'm not like actively seeking them out. So I don't identify as queer, but I'm definitely not straight. I'm just Nicole. I think that is like, I think people have this fear and for good reason sometimes of like the queer community like judging their queerness but to me anyone who says

what you just said to me is part of part of my community like yeah 100 thank you like you don't have to have it all figured out or like no or like know the labels like you just have to like not just want to fuck a guy like you want to fuck more than okay here's the thing i don't like the term bisexual i just don't like it i feel like it says that there's like just two because bi means two bicycles have two wheels that's how i know that i don't like pansexual because it makes i don't it sound i don't know pans the branding i gotta say pansexual branding is not great right now it really isn't working on it i don't like it doesn't feel accessible to someone

who like is maybe more traditionally feminine i think i feel like it's like a lot of hair dye and septum piercings, but it can be anybody, you know? Yeah. I guess I truly just like, don't love, I don't love a label. Like I was talking to someone and I was like, they were like,

well, are you non-binary? And I was like, I don't know. Sometimes I feel more masculine some days. Some days I feel more feminine. They're like, that's the literal definition of that. Nicole, you're gayer than I am. You're gayer than I am. You are.

You're non-binary and pansexual. I hate to tell you this way, but that's actually what. But I'm just Nicole. I don't like a label. I just find them to be so arbitrary and silly because you change like you change like you're this one day you're that another day so like why label it i don't know like if i fall in love with

a woman or a trans person or a non-binary person i'm just like okay that's the person i love that's who i'm with today and it sounds like that'll probably happen. Listen, I hope so. I hope somebody, but also here's the thing. I don't actively look for it. I'm usually looking for dick. All of the ladies I've hooked up with were, well, one I met on an app, one I met at my job, one I met at a bar. I guess. One I met at my job. One I met at a bar.

I guess I... They just like, 10 minutes later. I was like, having to meet them. I don't know. Wait, when this airs, this episode, I will have gone to D.C. and back.

And I've been trying to like... D.C.? Very gay. Very gay city. It's like the gayest city in America yeah it's super gay I sell very well there I went to New Jersey I sold like no tickets where did you go in Jersey New Brunswick uh what's there Stress Factory yeah Stress Vinny's Vinny Brand Stress Factory I went to school with his kids. Oh, really? We don't have to get into that.

All right. But last time I played in Jersey, I was at Bananas, Go Bananas or something. Yeah, Bananas. On the side of a road, and then they hung bananas up, and then they just stayed there all weekend. And I was like, I can't stay here. So I called people from the city, and I was like, please take me and i was like i can't stay here so i called people from the city and i was like please take me to the city i can't stay there's no way out either when you get to bananas if you don't have a car you cannot get home you're stuck in bananas yeah it's like a horror film what a nightmare but we love you bananas shout out

bananas yeah bananas if you want me to come back i I'll come back. Do you need to be mentally turned on to have sex with someone? Or physically, is it like that's all you need? So it takes very little. I think it's called a demisexual person where you have to have a connection. Right. I don't have to have a connection at all. have a connection right i don't that's what i have to have a connection at all but like no this i hooked up with this guy who he like pulled down his pants and i audibly went oh wow it was so big and he was so skinny and tiny skinny tiny men really do love me i think that's a thing i think

that's kind of a look right now for like a really tiny, skinny little guy. Like what, what, um, Timothy Chalamet is doing with, uh, Kylie,

Kylie Jenner. Like that's like a real, that's like a real mood right now. That's on a vision board. Don't like that one. Tim, Timothy Chalamet. I don't know if I love him with Kylie Jenner.

I want him with like an art house freak. Like, yeah, I agree. It is a little bit weird. You know, a little bit weird. Also my,

my girlfriend loves, she's bisexual. She loves Timothy. That's like her, her hall. Yeah. He is not for me. Hall passes are so funny to me.

Cause we're also open. I know it's like a fun thing. I know you're open, but for like relationships when they're like, you know, my girlfriend has a pass for like this guy. And I'm also open. I know it's like a fun thing. I know you're open, but for like close relationships when they're like, you know, my girlfriend has a pass for like this guy. And I'm like, but like in what situation? Like, do you talk about like what that situation might be?

Do you try to get in that situation? I was someone's hall pass once and she said it to me and I was like, you have to do a check-in. You cannot, you cannot actually meet. The hall pass is totally hypothetical. So I was like, call her. Call her right now. Let's do a FaceTime.

She was like, she loves you. She'll freak out. And I was like, are you giving permission to your girlfriend to actually, is this like a real-life hall pass? And the girlfriend was like, no. Like, fully no. That's so funny. Yeah, you need to like, it's not, fully no. That's so funny. Yeah, you need to like, it's not real.

Yeah, it's not real. Yeah. Although I have done meet and greets where people are like, you're my hall pass. And then their partner's right there and they nod enthusiastically. And I'm like, oh, no. That's almost worse because then you're fucking this person thinking about the girlfriend being like, have a great time sweetie have a good time i packed you both a lunch okay thank you so much yeah wait do you have chuckle fuckers oh yeah i'm very lucky in that regard yes boy oh boy what a dream it is i don't really have chuckle fucker harder when it's when you're more into

cis men like i think i think women are attracted more openly attracted to a sense of humor whereas with straight men cis men they they have like it it intimidates them it does and it's annoying but i have encountered some men who are like boy you're funny and i like that and they'll like just leave it like that and there's no qualifiers it's, you're funny. And I like that. And they'll like, just leave it like that. And there's no qualifiers. It's like, you're funny for a woman. Or I didn't think you were funny. Or I never knew who you were in my whole fucking life.

But now I'm okay with it. I just think I figured out why I don't consider myself queer. It's because, oh, wait, shit, it went right away. Should I take my medicine? As revelations in therapy often do. Wait, fuck. It just truly went away men qualifiers intimidating women or intimidating men oh shit i don't know oh maybe it's because i have to chase men and i don't necessarily have to chase women women hit on me a lot and i think i it's one of those things where my mother would always be like

the grass isn't always greener on the other side you know some people have short hair want long hair people want who have long hair want short hair like you just can't have what you want sometimes and I'm always like give me what I want even though I don't often get like the way I dress, you know, I know catcalling happens to everybody, no matter how you're dressed, but like, I certainly have a more masculine look,

but I have days where like, I'm running out in a pair of leggings, you know, or maybe I'm going running or something like that. And I'll see men looking at me. And when it happens, I'm going running or something like that and I'll see men looking at me and when it happens I'm like oh I'm like hot hot I'm not just like gay hot I'm like hot hot because there's something because of the male gaze and the patriarchy there is something like inherently

more validating even though it's like in your head and it's not real, you know, and maybe that's part of it. Maybe. Cause I do like when a man hits on me. I also like when a lady hits on me. I think I like it when it's more organic. Cause I've been hit on a lot at shows and stuff. And women.

Yeah. Like a Q and a, a Q and a at like a, a podcast is not where I'm going to get like hoardy and turned on and be like, okay, this is very strange to get hit on in front of an audience of people. That's like kind of why like you almost have to seek it out if you're going to do it. Because women have a really hard time being the aggressor. And I don't mean aggressor in a bad way.

I mean it in like the mating ritual way. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm usually the aggressor yeah yeah it's my favorite thing to be the aggressor in a nice way i'm like the name of this podcast is why won't you date me yes it sounds like you're really getting dicked down like i i don't i'm not it's been a while it's been months since I've had sex oh um I was dating somebody and then that like came to an end and then then I was just like I don't want to meet a new person because it's too hard yeah it's really hard it's like it takes a lot to like

open yourself up and be vulnerable and be like I grew up this way here's why i'm like this this is what i learned in therapy and then when it ends you're like okay so i have to start over and tell a whole new person all this shit i do not understand people who are serial monogamous well yeah i mean i did it but thankfully there were like years in between there was like years and years and years but i remember when I broke up with Jen, when Jen and I broke up, I really wanted to be my- Old Jen. No, new Jen. First time we broke up. Oh, new Jen. New Jen. Oh, okay. New Jen, we broke up because of the age difference. And I was like, I really want to find someone. So I'm like really going to put myself out there. And it was the first time in my life that I was like actively dating and really failing to find someone to

U-Haul with. So, oh my God, it was brutal. It was brutal to be so, to try and let yourself be excited about someone and, and just like, they're not it. They're just so not it. And yeah, it just was, it was really rough. It was really sad yeah i identify with that i try to force things a lot where i'm like this person sucks but i'm gonna win them over and they're gonna love me and i'm gonna change them to not suck yeah thank god jen came back that was that was that was very fortunate that is nice i do have a question i was watching a stand-up clip of yours. Oh, God. And you were talking about boy lesbians and girl lesbians. Oh, it's silly. And those are the two that go together.

It is silly. So are you into more feminine women or more masculine women? Let me clarify the clip that it was a comedy clip and it was sarcastic. You can be any type of lesbian and date anybody. I should have said that that is a full-blown joke it was that because people don't understand jokes they really don't understand jokes um they really really wild yeah it's crazy yeah i tend to date no that would be that would be an understatement i exclusively date I'm very attracted to femininity. I like tend to go for

like, went back, you know, pre pandemic before everyone in the entire world came out. Pre pandemic, I dated like a lot of straight women, straight, you know, straight women, quote unquote. Um, maybe questioning would be a better term. Uh, I dated a lot of, I've dated so many bisexual women. I just like almost exclusively, I would say. Yeah. I tend to date really feminine women. Did you ever go to girl nation?

It was this club in maybe Midtown. You're gayer than I am. I don't even know what that is. You're gayer than I am. It was in am like the early not early 2000s i was in new york in like 2004 or five so this is probably like 2007 ish i i don't know it i didn't even know it existed boy oh boy it was great it was like big nasty and dirty um i don't think it was around for super, super long, but there was like a super famous comedian before she came out who like came to the club and everyone was like, oh my God.

Are you withholding the name of this comedian? Yeah, because it feels weird. They're like already out, but it feels weird to like re-out them. Do you know what I mean? It's like one of five. I mean, it really is like, I think it's like one of five i mean it it really it really is like i think it's like it was ellen degeneres just dancing on and no it wasn't ellen but it was a different comedian

the other one the other two and it was very funny because like a hush fell over the crowd and everyone was like so she is gay so she is getting yeah yeah they took her like straight upstairs to this like weird vip area and it was so funny and then later that night a bouncer was stabbed it was an exciting night at the lesbian bar there was a stabbing yeah because it was a really butch woman who was with a very very femme woman there we go and really butch woman who is with a very, very femme woman. There we go. And the butch woman accused the bouncer of looking at the femme one, not even flirting, looking. This is literally exactly what my joke is about because some butch lesbians, we can be so much more toxically masculine than men.

Like, because men, because we're so used to men hitting on our girlfriends because they're feminine that we just like we're we're two and eleven immediately like the bouncer looks at this woman and and then she stabs looked at her she lost her mind she stabbed him and then we finished our cigarettes and went back inside and then we danced some more and then uh as we were leaving the cops were called and they had her not in handcuffs but in those like zip ties zip ties she was like in a zip tie behind her back and they were tasing her and

it's not funny but it was truly wild and i haven't thought about that night in such a long time. I'm going to have to call my friend when I'm done with this and be like, do you remember that? I want to know if Rosie O'Donnell slash Wanda Sykes slash Ellen DeGeneres. I want to know. Well, actually with Wanda, the timeline doesn't add up because Wanda was 2009 that she made.

I'm a be me which is one of my favorite comedy specials of all time is that the one with the detachable pussy no I think that one is that might be later she does Adam she does the joke Adam and Eve not Adam and Mary but Jay Blige do you remember that joke yeah that's a very good joke. I fucking love that joke. She's such a good joke writer. It's like fully insane. She's my all time. She's the person that I like, pre me really understanding who I was as a comedian.

She was like, her performance and her writing are like both so good. You can't tell what's getting the laughs. You know what i mean like they're both yeah at that high level that i was like that's what i want to be like just like epic performer epic writer i wish i was more like that i sometimes if i write a joke and i can't beat it and then like i've asked other people and they can't beat it. I'll be like, all right, let's really perform it. So it's funny.

Time to sing. Time to make a funny little noise. Two minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the days I'm tired, they just don't work. Yeah, yeah. How did you get into comedy? Oh, I was just sad at MIT.

I was just so sad. So sad. So I knew I wanted to do something. You know, I don't know when you started comedy, but I was pretty late in life. I was 26. How old was I? I don't know how old I was.

Well, you were already pretty fucking successful. I didn't want to kiss your ass when you came in, but like I was watching you and absolutely adoring you on girl code before I had even really gotten into Santa comedy. Thank you. Girl code, a show where they paid you in exposure. Yeah. I mean,

so much of it's just so much of that. Or it used to an exposure. Yeah, I mean, so much of, it's just so much of that. Or it used to be. Now I think comedians have caught on that the exposure is not worth it. Yeah. But back in the day, I mean, like,

you're very popular and I imagine a lot of people came to fall in love with you on Girl Code. Yeah, I will say I was joking. I mean, no, I'm not joking. I got paid so poorly on that show. You absolutely should have been paid. But it is one of the very few times

where I did something for exposure and it actually worked. Yes. So I am forever grateful. I may shit on it and be like, I got paid $0, wore crusty little wigs, but it did launch my career. Yeah, and you were fantastic.

And I was at home. I just quit MIT knowing that I wanted to do something. I wrote a musical. I did a bunch of improv. I did all of these things. Wait, did you do improv at UCB? I did. Did you like it?

I did like it. And then I had gotten to advanced study, and I had just started doing stand up. And I felt already like stand up was just like so much easier to like make a career out of than improv. So I got into a class with a teacher who I will not name, but is well known for being sort of a not very nice teacher. I'm sure you can probably surmise who it is. He's had a solid career. Oh, I know exactly who it is. Yeah.

So I don't know what he's doing now, but he's definitely worked a bunch. And I, you know what, Nicole? I'm going to actually, you, what did you see me? I'm going to let you decide what you think of my choice. We were doing, no one cares about this. Again, the views are, the downloads just tanking. I love it.

There's like three little improv nerds who are like, okay, I also know who it is. Yeah, exactly. Well, we were doing mono scenes. And it was in an apartment. I also know who it is. Yeah, exactly. Well, we were doing mono scenes. Sure. And it was in an apartment. And it had already been established that the person living in the apartment was starting a business in his apartment. I love how you remember this. I will never forget this.

I'm a Scorpio. If you've wronged me, I remember every detail. And I will take it to my deathbed. Like I have a list, dude. Like there's not many people on the list, but trust me, I'm an elephant. Okay. So I walk, we've established no setting up a business in your apartment. You're not allowed.

The landlord is saying this to the person who lives in the apartment. No, no, no, no setting it up. So sometimes go sometimes is going by the it's not really getting elevated. The landlord character comes back to the apartment. I was like, I'm going to elevate this. So or escalate this. So I was like, I came over and I was like, hey, I'm I'm from Time Warner Cable. I'm here to set up your business class Internet. You ready for me to set up your business class internet. You ready for me to set up

your business class internet? The teacher stops the scene. You know what I'm trying to do. You've improvised, right? I'm trying to give him something. The teacher stops the scene, goes, why did you do that? And I was just in shock.

I was so intimidated by this guy. I was like, I was just trying to give, I was trying to hit the second beat. I thought that was the interesting thing in the scene, and I was just trying to give it the second beat. the scene and I was just trying to give it the second beat and I mean he just like lost it on me and then took a break and I I quit the class and I never did improv again oh my god yeah I really don't think people have like um some people do but some people literally don't have a grasp on how to speak to people, especially in a creative setting. And it's like, because in school I had ADHD,

so a lot of teachers would just like shut me down or be like, be quiet or whatever. And I'm like, had one teacher been like, oh, do you need to take a walk every 20 minutes and that'll help you concentrate? I could have maybe been a philosopher or a doctor or a neuroscientist surgeon. Or an improviser at the UCB. Wait, Ashley, real quick.

We have to take another break if you can even believe it. Okay, we are back. I cannot believe that that is how improv ended for you. Improv is such a dumb, joyous thing for me that that makes me so fucking sad. It hurt my feelings. Also, did you think the move was that bad? Was it that bad a move? It's also never going to happen again. I mean, I am historically the worst improv coach in the history of coaches. But a lot of times I'm like hey that move didn't really like move anything forward but also I'm glad you got out there and made a move right yeah I don't

know what to tell you I could have done the same move and it would have been funny but like also I probably would have done a little put a little sauce on it yeah you know I I went into the apartment and I started setting it up immediately I was like giving them business and opportunity to like kind of take the scene somewhere but yeah I don't I don't know it was just I did my best but maybe it's not the best move what I'm getting from this Nicole is that your team this guy and that the move was actually not the best I am no I actually thought it was a very good move I think it's a great move I mean you are painting yourself I mean also you could come back as something else like it's just it's improv who move. I mean, you are painting yourself. Also, you could come back as something else.

Like, it's just, it's improv. Who fucking cares? Right. Like, worst case scenario, they don't like the move. I set up the internet. I leave the scene. The scene goes on. Yeah.

And then you could come back as somebody else. Yeah. Or the business had another thing happen. I don't know. Yeah. Okay. So you worked on Carnival cruise ships yeah yeah i was a carnival cruise comedian and then was the audience okay so people go on cruises no offense

to me are i don't want to say a stain on the earth or like um nasty people but like the idea of a cruise ship is daunting horrific horrific, horrifying and disgusting to me. So like were these people good people at your shows or what? The cruise industry is a nightmare and it shouldn't exist. It's bad for the environment and it's bad. There's no labor laws on it. There should be a union. It's insane what they do to people who work on the crews.

Not the comedians. I was their first openly gay comedian. And I got to say, yeah, the people were like, I would describe them as either Republicans, you know, or kind of middle America, like from the middle of nowhere Republicans, or like kind of apolitical. Like no one, there's not a lot of like thoughtful dialogue happening on a Carnival Cruise. And yeah, I experienced some of the worst homophobia I'd ever experienced in my life.

I mean, for sure. Oh no. Yeah. Was it like heckling or like people finding you after the show? The first cruise was the worst because they put me out of Galveston, Texas, because it's supposedly the easiest audience. But here's the thing, Nicole, it's not the easiest audience. If you are a good comedian, if you are a good, interesting comedian, if you tell smart jokes, they're just going to be like they're so difficult because they're so they just want

they want cruise bullshit so i got up there on my first one i sit on my r-rated show which was the only show i was allowed to be gay on on the pg show i couldn't mention that i was gay yeah that's literally insane yeah yeah yeah no how fully truly unhinged and wild yeah i don't want to they're gonna sue me one day for talking about this but right now i'm i'm they haven't um yeah i said i said i said i was gay in the set and uh i would say like a third to half of the room just stood up and walked out as soon as i said it was crazy it crazy. It was nuts. Oh, God. It was like, you don't, living in New York was such a privilege. Like, it was hard to be gay anyway, but, like, oh, my God,

my privilege was checked so fast. I was like, oh, my good God. A guy the next morning came up to me at the buffet and said, hey, I want to talk to you. Your lifestyle is an abomination. But, like, I think, like think you can be saved or whatever. So let's have a conversation. And I had breakfast with him.

It was... Oh, no. I was like, I got to rep gay people. I have an opportunity here to have a conversation with someone. You know what's interesting? I don't think he would have done it on the flip side. If you were like, hey, straight man,

I think you should hear something from me i think he'd be like leave me alone with my waffles yeah i think it's really interesting that you were expected to meet him halfway but they don't meet anybody else halfway it's really wild yeah you're so right i didn't even think about me like well that's what they think we're doing they think we're telling everyone to be gay they think that our existence is a plea for everyone to be gay. But it's like. I've said it on other episodes. If anything, the world is pleading everyone to be straight.

Yes. That's all of all of the like content I saw growing up. All the Disney movies. They were straight people like you find your Prince Charming. You wear a pretty dress. Right. And then they don't see it. They just don't see it because that is what life is. That's just yeah it's just what it is they don't think about

it they don't engage with it his brother came out late in life in his 50s and he said and i was like that's why we're having the conversation right like he is having this with me because he's struggling with his brother coming out maybe what what that means for him. You know, who knows? And he was like, my brother coming out at 56, I think is what he said, is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. Oh my God.

Yeah. And I just ended the conversation with like, your brother just wants you to love him. That's all. That's all that's all yeah it was it was wild my mother was a christian and she taught us that like everything is fine and god loves everybody and i'm just like how come other people didn't get that where did she go where she got something different than everybody else it's like really bizarre to me that we're just like so focused on like who fucks who and how people want to look and i don't know

i keep reading bad things about like laws getting passed and it's like really fucking up my day it's really terrifying i i i thank you for doing that like i know you're gay I am, but like, thank you for doing that and talking about it on your podcast. I don't think, I don't think the straights, like, I don't think the straight liberals really know what's happening here. And it's like kind of scary. Like it's, it's a kind of, it's like fully actually scary. You know, I want to preface that I'm Jewish on my mom's side. I'm not religious, but it is akin to some of the little trickling that you see with the Holocaust, Nazi Germany. It's very scary.

People should be really like, what the fuck? You know, there was one law where it was like kids have to like show their genitals to prove what gender they are before they could play a sport and i was like wait what wait what whose job is that and like what the fuck like you that's not a job that's literal that's like if if somebody was like okay nicole in order for you to play basketball pull down your pants I would be like great I'll sit down and never move again I'll never play basketball are you kidding but the thing is that they're kids if their parents don't know they're gonna do it and then adults tell them to do things they're gonna do it and

it's devastating and it's it's so gross i don't know gender affirming care is so i don't understand what people don't get that like boob implants for a woman is gender affirming care men having hair transplants is gender affirming care so i'm like why is it okay for the people living the way that you want them to live to have these things but other people cannot and then also like people change i don't know there's ebbs and flows some people are trans forever some people are trans for a little bit some people have titties for a while some people don't i don't know like i don't understand like why we can't just let people live oh boy oh boy because they don't have anything going on

and the system is broken and capitalism unchecked capitalism has ruined them and they have to i think it's true with racism too right like you just need a book yeah you just need like uh or illegal immigration or whatever like you just they just need something to be like well my life is shitty because of trans people i don't know it's so wild that you can't wake up and go my life is shitty because i work at the dollar tree and i make seven dollars an hour and my rent is five thousand dollars a month and i can't make ends meet government help me that way yeah exactly but don't you think it's a cult that if like if you reveal if they were to reveal to themselves that they're in a they're not able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps

that there is a rigged don't you think that they would collapse internally like like maybe but also i'm like let's fucking live in the real world yeah look around and decide what's going on like i don't know ashley we're never gonna solve life's problems. I know. This is how the show usually goes. Why won't you date me? And we're back by the end of it. We're like, we're all going to die. Sometimes. Sometimes. I don't know.

James Marston did an episode where we ended it where I explained to him what a bussy was. James Marston did your podcast? I know. If you could believe it, he did. And you told him what a pussy was. Uh-huh. We started off talking about Sonic

and then, oh, I also told, I taught him about scat porn. Thank you, Mars. That is so cool. So, you know, goes anywhere. He came on to promote, he came on to promote his freebie show.

Yes, jury duty. And then I said, I've been watching, it's quite good. It is good, but I spent a long time talking about Sonic the Hedgehog because it's my favorite franchise. And I've talked about it enough that I don't understand why they won't put me

in it. I used to pretend to be Sonic growing up. I loved Sonic. I love Sonic, too. I'm more of a Mario girl, but I liked Sonic, too. It's me, Mario. I'm sad that he doesn't sound like that, so I haven't seen the movie. Yeah, yeah.

I haven't seen it either. It feels a little wrong. So, okay, Ashley, we have come to the end. Is there anything you want to promote? Yes. I have a comedy special on YouTube. You're going to like it. It's really good.

I'm proud of it. So just go search my name on YouTube. It'll be right there. Ashley Gavin. Okay, Ashley, do you have any advice for me as a single woman on how to get a relationship? I think, okay, I just want to encourage you to be queer. Like, why don't you jump on an app? I think, okay, I just like want to encourage you to be queer. Like, why don't you jump on an app? I think it'll be good. Okay. And I'm not saying no dick, like queer dick. Yeah.

Maybe I will. Why not? Okay. It's harder to meet them in the wild. It's harder to meet them in the wild. And I know that's like what you like to do. And it doesn't, I'm going to tell you this, you can still be straight and do this. I'm not straight though. I think that's embarrassing. But you know what I mean, like not by. I think any fucking person who's like,

oh, straight man, you're fucking embarrassing. Yes, yes. Like you're a weirdo who needs to stop. But you can can you will eventually find a term that i think works for you just nicole a little chicken nugget i'm a chicken nugget well chicken nuggets are definitely queer because they're genderless and i think possibly asexual oh maybe well i know i'm definitely not asexual that i know yeah i love fucking ashley i have a question another one yeah i ask all my guests this i've only missed it maybe five

or six times in the hundred years i've been doing this show would you date me i would definitely i would go on at least a date with you yay okay that's nice thank you that's a real that's a nice treat um only a couple people have said that they wouldn't and that has made me sad um okay so that's the end of this well they won't fuck me that's the end of this episode but if you like this podcast you can send me a dirty message to why won't you damey podcast at gmail.com no pictures because mars has to look at it and if you write me something nasty hitting on me i will read it this person says um hey nicole i put the std in stud all i need is you oh i get I get it. Lots of love. That was good. Oh, yes. That wasn't a nasty pickup line.

That was a good one. Yeah, that was good. Also, kind of queer. Yeah. Pretty queer. Ashley, that's it. Bye-bye! That's it for Why Won't You Date Me? With me, Nicole Byer. Why Won't You Date Me?

is produced and engineered by, oh, the sweetest woman I know, Marissa Melnick. It is executive produced by other wonderful people, Adam Sachs, Joanna Solotaroff, and Jeff Ross. Thanks for listening. I love you. Thank you so much. We'll be seeing you next Friday with a brand new episode. What a dream! What a dream! Ha ha ha! Ha ha ha! Ha ha ha! This has been a Team Coco production.