Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Love Triangle Gone Wrong (w/ Michael Urie)

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

Actor Michael Urie (Shrinking, Ugly Betty) joins Nicole to discuss the wild hookup culture at Julliard, and the love triangle he had that went sour. Once he got fame from Ugly Betty, he starts going on dates with people who only seem interested in the version of him they saw on TV, until a second shot with actor Ryan Spahn turns into a 17-year partnership. He tells the story of a friend who died singing Britney Spears at karaoke, and lists the surprisingly beautiful ways other pals have died. Plus, the time his dog blew up an airplane bathroom.Michael offers blunt advice for singles: your standards aren’t too high, they’re just too specific, and urges to drop the blinders on your dating life.Watch this episode on our YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/@WhyWontYouDateMePodcastSupport this podcast and get discounts by checking out our sponsors:» Quince: Treat your closet to a little summer glow-up with Quince. Go to Quince.com/dateme for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns » Mint Mobile: Get your summer savings and shop premium wireless plans at mintmobile.com/DATEME.» SquareSpace: Head to squarespace.com/DATEME to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code DATEME.» BetterHelp: This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/DATEME and get on your way to being your best self.» EarnIn: Make Any Day Payday! When you download the EarnIn app, type in Why Won't You Date Me under PODCAST when you sign up – it’ll really help the show. » ZocDoc: Zocdoc.com/DATEME to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today.» Booking.com: Book now at Booking.com!View all of our sponsors and discounts codes at wwydm.notion.site/sponsors.Follow:Tour Dates: linktr.ee/nicolebyerwastakenYouTube: @WhyWontYouDateMePodcastTikTok: @whywontyoudatemepod Instagram: @nicolebyerX: @nicolebyerNicole's book, #VERYFAT #VERYBRAVE: indiebound.org/book/9781524850746This is a Headgum podcast. Follow Headgum on Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok. Advertise on Why Won't You Date Me? via Gumball.fm.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Podcast. Want to watch this episode? Catch the full video on YouTube. Just hit the link in the episode description. This episode of Why Won't You Date Me is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking dot yeah, Booking.com has vacation rentals and hotels across the US and truly they have the ideal summer stay for absolutely anyone. I'm talking about your sleep light, early riser mom,

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and say, that's not cum, that's a earring. My- Oh my God. I'm sick. My guest today is an actor, producer, and director who you first fell in love with as Mark St. James on Ugly Betty. He's a Critics Choice winning supporting actor on Apple TV plus... Sometimes reading is really hard. These words are all correct.

Thank you. But I did say it sounded weird coming out of my mouth, okay Oh on on the Apple TV Plus I think that's that's better than just on Apple TV Plus series shrinking along with Jason Segel and Harrison Ford I'm so excited. It's Michael Urie! Hello Hi, hi, hi, hi, hi I feel like we've been talking for an hour already, because maybe we have, actually.

We have been talking for a little bit, because I'm trying to waste all your time. Sorry about it. Thank you for that lovely intro. It's so nice to see you. Thank you for being here. I'm a big fan. I think you're just delightful,

and I think you're wonderful, and I'm so excited to get into it. Let's talk about it. So, my assistant, Lindsay, did some research, and you went to Juilliard? Yes. I went to Juilliard. I like to pronounce it Ju-i-lar.

Ju-i-lar. And try to miss, you know, like as many silent letters as possible. Ju-i-lar. I like that. I did. It was a great experience for me. That's four years? Four years. OK, here's a question.

It's a conservatory, so that. That's four years? Four years. Okay, here's a question. It's a conservatory. So that means there's no academics, right? So I got a BFA. Yes. And now one could get an MFA and there's doctorate programs. But yes, it is a conservatory. You can go, I believe you can go

and receive no proper higher level of degree. You could just get a diploma. Mm-hmm. But you took academics. Like you wanted to do like math? No, no, not math. I took, there was no math at all. Definitely no math.

It was basically you take like theater history and you take, they call it humanities. Okay. And that's the only time you ever mix with other disciplines. It's the only time you're ever in a class with a dancer or a musician. And it's like, you know, you're talking about philosophy and psychology, and it's still like very, you know, arts-brained. Were y'all fucking?

Well, there was fucking. Oh, so, ohall fucking? Well, they were always fucking. Oh, so... Oh my God. Yeah, are you kidding? A bunch of like artists rolling around. But did the fucking crossover? This is insane. Oh, absolutely.

Why am I... I'm like, so... And in fact... Did cellists fuck the dancers? And in fact, I would say probably more because you were so... Well, I don't know about that. Because every class inevitably would have some couple. Some, you know...

Do you like travel together? It's like... Correct. So you don't work... You will sometimes cross-pollinate amongst the class, amongst the years. But you stay with the same class all four years. It's about 20 people. And you're with the same people the whole time. And you become, I mean, you're really more like siblings. So it's kind of gross when you start hooking up, but it does happen. It's inevitable you hook up. I hooked up with people in my class.

It's inevitable. I love that. That makes me so happy. And I don't know why. Well, there's something like, I think there is something sexy about, I mean, first of all, they're all hot in their 20s. Everyone's in their early 20s, sometimes late 20s. And everyone's talented. Everyone's talented.

It's not humiliating to watch someone do a monologue because you're like, you're good at this. Right, right. And when you're in a class together, you're seeing each other at your worst and your best. So like all that's out of the way, which is great. And you're often in like scantily clad, you know, you're in dance class or you're in movement class

where you're like wearing tights. So you're like, oh, I already got a scent. There's no surprise. You know? There's no secrets. There's no secrets. There's no secrets. But there's also with the fucking, there's...

You do, like, I mean, we certainly would cross-pollinate that way amongst the disciplines. Like, you've got to try out the dancers, or some musicians, maybe a composer. Ooh. You know, things like that. Wait. I want wanna fuck a composer. I would truly be like, can you make music for this right now? Can we fuck with your keyboard? Yeah, oh my god, what a dream that would be.

But I had like, let's see, I went out with some dancers for sure, and cellist once, in fact. Ooh. some dancers for sure and cellist once in fact I Think that's it. Oh Might and then like, you know, certainly a lot of actors But my roommate was a tuba player in the dorm I Like that he has but do you have to practice his tuba in the dorm? Great question. And no, he never even brought it in the dorm.

Oh. And I must say, the dorms at Juilliard are lovely. They're right next door to Juilliard. And there's like five size sizes. So like, there's a suite, there's the A room, which is huge, which is actually, and by huge, it's probably the size of this room. For two people.

For a college dorm, I think that's rather large. Pretty large for two people in New York. Yes. And then, maybe not this big, but like, let's say it's this big. And then there's a B room that's a little bit smaller. And then there's a C and a D room that are much smaller, but they're singles. And then there's the E room, which is the same size.

The same size as the single, but they stick two people in there. Oh my God. And you can kind of mess with the, uh, the configuration. It's all bunk beds. You start with bunk beds, but you could like, it's two, two up high bunk beds, and then there's desks underneath, but you can like reconfig's two up high bunk beds, and then there's desks underneath, but you can like reconfigure it. It's like, you know, get an Allen wrench

and pull it all apart. And so we had bunk beds, like proper bunk beds. My tuba player roommate. Were you top or bottom? I was top. I was bottom bunk. I was, my roommate at the time was like, well, why do you just get to be the bottom bunk?

And I was like, because if I get on the top, I'll kill you. And then she didn't argue with me. I was like, you can't put the fattest person on top. We're in art school, but like, I know simple math and science, you know? Like, I don't want to murder you. I really like your hair. Thank you so much.

I just put something new in it today. Here's a question. Did you ever go through a phase where you were like, I don't want to be a curly haired boy. I want straight hair. Yes. The first two decades of my life, I did not. Well, because when I grew up in my day, in like middle school

and high school, especially middle school, it was the era of the butt cut. Everyone had a center part. Oh, the Devin Salwa. The Devin Salwa, exactly. And they had center cut and when you have curly hair, that is impossible. And it's really, it's hard to even do a side part, frankly. I mean, I can do a side part.

If it's wet, I can do a side part and hope to God it doesn't curl up and become what you're looking at, which is essentially. I love it. Do you ever use a diffuser? I have used a diffuser. To straighten it? No!

Oh, sorry, what do you mean? Diffusers are an attachment on a blow dryer that makes it curly. Yeah, yeah. That holds the curl. Yeah, I don't need much to hold the curl because it just sort of comes out curly. And so because when it's shorter,

when it's shorter, it's wavy. Mm-hmm. Wavy is like, what are you gonna do with wavy? I love wavy. I love any sort of textured hair. I just like things that are unique and different That's like my favorite thing about a person. Yeah, when I see somebody I'm like, ooh wavy hair Curls. I don't know. I like it. Yeah. Well, so I was at Juilliard my third year

They say they asked me to grow my hair out for something and that was the first time I ever realized that it would do this Like a real curl. What did they have you grow your hair out for something. And that was the first time I ever realized that it would do this. Like a real curl. What did they have you grow your hair out for? Well, I'm so glad you asked. For the Fiasco Brothers Circus, which was a clown circus that we created. So, so, so, add Juliard. Story time. Story time. Add Juliard. I don't know if he's still there. I'm sure they still do something like this, but there was this wonderful guy called Chris Baez who was a clown teacher. They called it physical comedy.

Yes. But it's clown. It's, it's, it's like a comedian clown, a comedienne de l'arté clown, but it's also his own version of clown. Basically the first day of class, you all sit on one side of the room, and then he's like, okay, I want you all, and you talk like that.

He's like, everybody will go up three at a time, and you will stand in the corner over there, and then one by one, you will walk to the center of the room, and then downstage, and then you will say hi, and you will say your name, and then you go back,

and you go back to the corner. Oh, and make us laugh. That's day one. Boy, oh boy. Day one! Okay. And you know, that's not easy. No.

That's not easy to just like come out, say your name, and make everybody laugh. Do you remember what you did? I remember there was a day, I don't remember what I did that day, but I do remember a day when I totally nailed it. And it was, cause we were, you know, you're terrified.

You're terrified. And like that's the class that most people cry in. Of all the classes. That's the class that more people cry in than any other class. And- Really? Yeah, totally.

I guess it is a very vulnerable thing to be like, make us all laugh. And then you're like, everyone's staring at me and I have to make you laugh? Yeah. And when you do, it can be very cathartic. And so sometimes it was the success of it that made people cry, not the failure of it. But the failure was constant. And then sometimes, you know, and this other thing, because it's so easy to make a joke

and then play the flop, as he said, but that was not allowed. Wait, what does play the flop mean? Basically, it's like, it's, you know, when you say something that's supposed to be funny and it doesn't, and then you say something. Oh, to like undercut it, to be like, oh, I know, usually people laugh at my jokes or whatever.

Exactly, exactly. And that's, that was supposed to be funny, but, you know, that's like playing the flop. And you can sort of do it with that. Cause most of our, most of that class, you're speaking in gibberish. It's not even, you're not even speaking in English. So it's mostly like, you know, like, you know,

you would do something and then they don't laugh. And you're like, and then, like, you know, you would do something, and then they don't laugh, and you're like, and then that would get a laugh. Yes. And he would always bust us on that. Don't play the flop. Interesting. Yeah. So this one day I came out and basically I didn't know what the hell I was going to do.

It was my turn and I just started going. And I basically just like hopped, sort of like, you know when you got water in your ear and you jump on one leg to try to get it out? I sort of like jumped on one leg all the way out and downstage and kept doing it and nobody laughed. And then I stopped. And then I started jumping on the other side and that got a laugh and I got a bravo

because he would also be, he was really withholding with this but if you did really well, he'd go bravo, very quiet. There's nothing like praise from somebody that you really, really like where you're like I'm dying to impress you. Like, I've done shows for like... I think it was in DC. Yes, it was DC.

There was an elderly black couple in the front row, and my material simply isn't for older people usually. It's just me being like, my pussy. And I did a clock up to like 30 minutes into the show. And then I was like, oh no, are you having fun? And they were like, yes. And I said, okay. And then after every joke I would look at them

to make sure that they were laughing. And then I got like a belly laugh from her husband. And I was like, oh, I can die happy. Oh, thank you elders, thank you. There's nothing like making somebody laugh. They're like, oh, phew, I can die happy. Oh, thank you, elders, thank you. There's nothing like making somebody laugh that you're like, I need this from you. And it is interesting, because on the one hand, all I really want is for young people to like me.

But on the other hand, my elders, that's a real, that's another, like, when an older person thinks you're funny, it feels real. It's so nice. I don't really care about the children, because children, they usually automatically like me. It's because I look like a cartoon character.

So they're just like, I like that lady. She seems fun and she's loud. But it's the older people that I'm like, I don't think you like me very much. I guess it's for me, the 10 years younger. The kids, great. Like teenagers, idiots, I don't think you like me very much. I guess it's for me, the 10 years younger. The kids, great. Teenagers, idiots, I don't care about them. The little kids, very desperate to be liked.

Yes. And then the young adults that I get, I'm like, okay, 20-somethings. Yeah, I don't care about them. Yeah, God. Maybe I do, I don't know. You're stronger than I. I don't think so.

20? Your brain's not even fully developed yet. No, God. Maybe I do. I don't know. You're stronger than I. I don't think so. Twenty? Your brain's not even fully developed yet. No, twenty not. Maybe twenty six. Okay. I still don't know if it's developed.

I was so dumb until about thirty-two. Oh, wow. Like, truly just a fucking idiot. Yeah. Me too. Only forty-three. I have a question. I'm forty-four.

You're not single. That's correct. Are you married? No. Or just partnered? Common law That's correct. Are you married? No. Or just partnered? Common law. When did you meet?

Oh, we met. Ryan Spahn is my partner. And he and I first met, I think it was like 2006. And we met through a mutual friend who had been my classmate at Juilliard, and Ryan's classmate at the Interlochen Arts Academy, where he went to arts boarding high school. You didn't meet at karaoke? It was a karaoke party.

Oh, okay, you were getting there. I was just fact checking. Yeah, consulting the notes. Yes, it was a karaoke party. It was James's, our mutual friend James's birthday and he had a karaoke party. Did I sing? No, I did not.

Why not? Because I don't believe in performing badly. Interesting. As a professional. I do. I will do karaoke and I am bad at it. Very, very bad. Yeah.

But I love it. Listen, I enjoy watching people perform badly. I just can't on principle get up and perform badly. You don't think it's like fun? Fun to fail a little? No, I don't. I guess I don't. Or do a duet. Like, I like doing... I might do a duet. I might do like Summer Lovin' or...

Oh, see, that's fun. I might join in with a group. Or I once did I Got You, Babe. That's fun. With another gentleman. That was kind of fun. But I'm not going to get up there and like, you know, I'm not gonna sing. I've done it. And I've failed and I've, I sing I Am I Said by Neil Diamond, which listener do not ever sing that song at karaoke.

I don't know that song. There's not enough instrumentation. You're too naked. You're just, ah. You're out there and it's a, it's basically a monologue, but on pitch and I completely failed. What is your go-to karaoke song? I like doing a duet with my friend, Sashir. It's Evanescence.

Wake me up, Sashir. I can't wake up. That's the part I do. Yes. Okay, well that's a whole act. I see that. I feel like that's a whole act. It's just like someone will be like, let's get up and sing Time of Your Life. And I'm like, I see that. I feel like that's a whole act. It's just like someone's like, someone will be like,

let's get up and sing time of your life. And I'm like, I can't sing, I can't sing. I can't get up there and just do that. Yeah, it's tough. But if you just have a nice time and have the confidence, people will clap for you at the end, even if you're bad. They will. Oh my gosh, guess what?

My friend died singing karaoke. What? Isn't this funny? Why did you? Why are you so happy about it? I know, what? My friend died singing karaoke. What? Isn't this funny? Why did you? Why are you so happy about it? I know. Because... My friend died singing karaoke. What song was it? The song was... Hit Me Baby One More Time. Honestly, that's pretty funny.

You know, a wish she'd sung I Will Survive? Oh, that would have been... Well, that would have been just you on the nose. What did he die from? Did he have like an aneurysm? It was an embolism, a heart embolism. And I, and like, he would love that we laugh about it. Because I mean, it was very tragic and we loved him so much.

He was young, it was horrible that he died. It was like devastating. But I always think that he died getting applause. Which is really nice. It is, I would love to die with people clapping. Absolutely, what a way to go. First of all, he wasn't sick. Really?

No, it was like a freak. It was just like a freak accident. Freak thing. Oh my God. His heart just stopped and he dropped dead. And it was like, he wasn't sick and So so he didn't have to go through any of that stuff. Did people think he was doing a bit at first? Probably I don't know. Oh, you weren't there. That's a great question. I wasn't there. I wasn't there, but that's a great question

They probably did they were probably like Tad. Yeah, you know that happened to me people nobody would help me Right they would be like there she goes again. I'd be holding cold before somebody touched me I'm always having a very fun time. I love that you had a back track and be like, it is tragic, it is sad. I constantly make dead parent jokes all the time. So I absolutely get it. I mean, you know, I think most people who are dead

would have wanted us to enjoy everything about them, including their death. And he was a great guy. would have wanted us to enjoy everything about them, including their death. And he was a great guy, and who knows what his life would be like now. I loved him very much and I miss him a lot, but what a great way to go. But what a beautiful way to go.

Oh, I have another one. You wanna hear another great way to go? Yes. This man was very old. He played my dad in Hamlet, the ghost of Hamlet's father. And his name was Keith Baxter. And he was an amazing old actor. He worked with Orson Welles.

Great friends with Maggie Smith and Judy. He introduced me to Judy Dench. Like, great. What is Dame Judy Dench like? Is she nice? So nice! She served fish sticks. Honestly, that's rude. I don't want fucking fish sticks. And champagne. Okay, mom, now I'm back. Better, better, better.

And she has this beautiful house. I went to her house. And she has this lovely property. And trees on her property planted for people who have died. So there's probably a Keith tree now. Oh, that's so nice. I know, it was really lovely. I wish I had the land.

I know, I wish I had. My God, Judy Dench's money. Yeah, exactly. She got money. She was lovely. So how did this man die? Okay, so Keith, he was 90 when he died, or 91.

And he had stopped being able to drive. He couldn't really see very well anymore. And he and his husband were in Corsica and it rained for like three days. Where's Corsica? Corsica is in France. It's in France, I think. Okay.

It's a European. I'll take your word for it European Beach area. Is that right? AI says the Italian. Let's not use AI anymore Mars. Keep scrolling. I keep scrolling past it. I know I had an idea how to even spell it. Yeah I think it's an island in the Mediterranean Sea Okay, so it's out there and one of the 18 regions of France. Yeah, so I knew it was like Somewhere with some yeah, I've never been obviously And they were there for a few days and it rained every day. Mm-hmm, and then it It stopped raining finally and Keith was like I'm going in the ocean his husband was like, it's gonna be really rough and cold.

I wouldn't go out there. You know, it's been raining, it's been raining. And Keith was like, I didn't care. I want to swim. I want to get back into the ocean. And that's how we talked. And he went and the sea took him. And he...

It's not funny. It's not funny. That is so wild. But it was kind of beautiful. 90 year old man, also his health was slowly failing. He couldn't drive anymore. He was losing his sight. He'd had, I think a heart operation.

Oh my God. But he was still able to swim. He wanted to go swim. And he didn't like disappear. He died and probably heart failure or something. And, or, you know, and drowned or whatever. And his body was recovered. And it did end up being like kind of a horrible ordeal

for his husband, I think. Because you're in a foreign country. You gotta like coordinate shit, yeah. So it was tragic, but it's also like... Kind of beautiful. Kind of beautiful. Like he really wanted to swim and he got to swim. Honestly though, I'm psychotic.

If the ocean took me, I would survive and become like queen of the whales. Like the ocean. Like I actually fundamentally believe that I don't think I would die. You wouldn't die. You would develop a blowhole. Yes, and then I would become one with the whales.

And then we would like take over ships together. Real quick, we gotta take a break. And now from oil. A word from our oil sponsors. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform that helps you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're launching a new business, selling your spicy little side project, or just want to make a gorgeous website to show off your stuff, Squarespace has everything you need. I know plenty of people in my life

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See the cash out user agreement for details. Services are not available in all states. And we're back. Michael, when you started getting fame, notoriety, booking roles... I don't know why I said it like that. Because we're still talking like Keith. Just to honor a man who was carried away by the ocean, did people ever slide into your DMs? Were people like, let me get at that?

Oh my gosh, you're amazing. Okay, so this is actually part of the reason why when Ryan and I, my partner and I met in 2006, it didn't take. So the rest of that story is that we met, we were supposed to go on a date, we didn't go on a date because a different friend died and I was depressed. Not Tad, not Keith, different friends. Just a different friend.

A lot of dead friends. And I was depressed and not Tad, not Keith, different friends. A lot of dead friends. And I was depressed and so I canceled on him and we never reconnected for like two years. And part of that was because that also happened to be when I was first on TV. So we met and then suddenly I was on TV and people started sliding into my DMs. And I was really enjoying being a little bit famous and a lot a bit single. And it was... I learned...

You know, I dated a few people that were like fans. And that was not a... What was that like? Well, they were very sweet. But that was not a... What was that like? Well, they were very sweet. But it was like probably wrong. Okay. Ultimately, just because like they weren't necessarily into me.

They were into like that character I was playing or like the idea of me or whatever. So that wasn't such a good thing. They were sweet. Yeah. Nobody was crazy. I get that it might've been sweet, but also it is a strange thing. Like my sweet. Yeah. Nobody was crazy. I get that it might have been sweet, but also it is a strange thing.

Like my partner hasn't seen me do stand up. And I... Ever? Nope. And I don't really care. And I don't think he ever needs to. Cause it's like... How much material about him is in there?

None actually. Oh really? There isn't very much because he makes me happy. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Pshhh. Ha ha ha ha ha. There isn't very much because he makes me happy It's not I don't know how to make it funny like that It's like isn't it great that he's so nice to me and it's like they're like we want jokes I'm like, I don't have jokes about that. I talk a lot about like people who've hurt me or whatever Right, right And then I do like a solid like 30 minutes about talking about other people I've hooked up with

and I was like, there's no, you don't have to watch that. That must, I feel like that would be insane for him to like sit in the dark and like watch his girlfriend talk about like, this dude when he fucked me, like what? No, no, no, no. So I kind of like that he doesn't know that kind of persona. I love that.

And then he's seen like a couple of things I've been in, but he very much is like, the person I'm dating is this person who also does this thing. And maybe I'll get around to watching it, but like, I don't need to, because I have this person. What does he do?

The computer. Oh, piano. And he does play piano. Oh my gosh. So all things. All things fingies. He uses his fingies. He uses his fingies. Lucky you. I mean, yes. Lucky me.

But he does coding or something. He's explained it a lot. And your eyes go like this. Truly. Truly. I don't understand computers. I don't understand like math and stuff. Same. Science, tough. Really tough?

Mm-hmm. I could never be a scientist. Imagine how God feels. He must be so confused. What did I create? Why did I do this? Here's a question. If you ever got a role where you had to play like a scientist or something, would you take it? Oh, yeah. Really? Oh, yeah, because I can act smart.

Mmm. I'm just not smart. I don't know if I can act smart. Mmm. I'm just not smart. I don't know if I can act smart. I've had a couple auditions where there was like medical jargon and I was like, I don't think I can do this. So I just didn't do the auditions. Oh, so I could do it. I don't think so.

The doctor's a flax, a wax, a... I see I can't even make it up. It's diverse, you're in my clown class. I would kill in the clown class. But, you know, I think part of that is, not to bring up Juilliard again, but we trained on Shakespeare. So that kind of stuff,

really, like, I think, even if I don't know the word, I know how to say a line. Sure. I can learn the word, and I can, you know. But I think Shakespeare is different than medical jargon. No, it's exactly the same. But you know what, actually, you. No, it's exactly the same. Oh! But you know what, actually, that's, you're right. It's not the same, but it is like legal jargon.

It is like legal jargon, and it is a bit like a dialect of a different language. Yeah. I love Shakespeare. Oh, it's the best, right? Oh, my god. I had read, maybe it was Twelfth Night. Or maybe it was The Tempest.

And then I was like, well, I have to have all of his works. So I went to Barnes & Noble and I got the complete works of Shakespeare, which is like, I don't know, a 20 pound book. And I did not pay for it. I simply left Barnes & Noble with it. And that was the first time I learned, if you leave a store with authority, nobody really asks you any questions. I've left Barnes & Noble with so many heavy books.

This is crazy that you're saying this to me. I used to work at Barnes and Noble. Really? I know. Yeah. I worked at Barnes and Noble in high school and community college. And I know, so I know how easy it is to steal from Barnes and Noble. It is incredibly easy.

Even if they have like the little sensor in it, it peels right off. Peels right off. Oh my God. They make it easy. And I love that Barnes & Noble is like, educate yourself. You don't have to pay. No, I'm kidding. They want you to pay.

They definitely want you to pay. You know, I used to steal so much and I would steal for people or I would let people, like my friends would come in. Oh, see, that's nice. And bring up a stack of books and I'd be like, you can pay for this bookmark and see you later. I love that.

And so much so that like our theater play section started to- Just dwindle, that's so funny. So much so that I lied to my manager and I was like, I've noticed, you know, manager, I've noticed that it seems like the play section is dwindling. I wonder what that's about.

And he literally said, well, I guess, you know, all those actors who can't afford books are coming in and stealing books. And I'm like, that would be crazy. That would be insane. Why would actors do such a thing? Is this the Barnes and Noble on 86? No, Barnes and Noble Park and Preston in Plano, Texas.

Oh. I thought this was in New York City. No, it was when I was in high school and then... Did you date in high school? Yeah, sure. I did it. I simply don't understand how people did it. I didn't date any boys in high school. Oh, you were dating the ladies? Dated ladies. I simply don't understand how people did it. I didn't date any boys in high school.

Oh, you were dating the ladies? Not really. Dated ladies. Ehhh, when did I first date a boy? Probably after high school. Yeah, my community. Because I went to community college for one year. And I mean, I liked boys in high school, but I didn't date any boys in high school. You weren't like, I'm going to act on this.

Yes. I get it. It wasn't until, the first time I made a pass at a boy was the summer after high school. And, oh, it was. Give it to me, tell me. It was that, I just turned into that same boy.

I love it. That 17 year old boy. I simply love when you remember something and it takes you back and you feel like a little kid again. Yeah, there was, okay. So, sorry. I did speech and debate in high school. And we would go, sometimes we would go on away trips.

And, you know, stuff would happen. And I went on, but I went on this trip to, so it was nationals, it was the national competition. And I'm so sorry. I feel like someone has explained speech and debate to me before. It's complicated. But it, oh, you just talk and there's like a jury maybe?

No, that's mock trial. Ah! See, okay, I've talked about this a lot. I did zero clubs in high school, so like I don't understand clubs. Okay, speech and debate is actually very complicated. And it's all explained in my documentary feature, Thank You for Judging, which you can get on nextmedia.com.

Really? Yes. I love that. But in a nutshell, it is debate, which is like cross-examination debate where two people are given a topic, or Lincoln-Douglas debate where it's one person debating an issue or extemporaneous speaking where you're given a topic and you are just supposed to speak about it extemporaneously or original oration where you write your own speech about something.

Okay, so that's sort of debate. Then there's also oral interpretation, which is sort of the speech side of things, which is more like acting. So like dramatic interpretation. This is actually the best description anyone's ever given of speech and debate. I hate to be like a toot your own horn kind of a guy, but I'm nailing it.

You are. Oral interpretation, dramatic interpretation, where you do a 10 minute section from a play or book, a published work, and you can play whatever, you can do it however you want, you know, you're supposed to stick to the script, and edit, or humorous interpretation, where you can play multiple characters,

and then there's duo interpretation, where there's two of you, and you can play one character. Okay, so I was there for dramatic interpretation. I was doing a 10 minute monologue from a one man play about Tennessee Williams. So I was playing Tennessee Williams at 17. And I ended up winning the national championship.

That's not the story, but it's important that you know that I was the champion. But for my champion crowning, but before my- Pre-champ crowning, my champion, before my champion. Pre-champ crowning. I had started to hang around with these two boys who were also my age from, I don't know where, I don't remember what their names were,

and I don't really remember how we met, but we kept running into each other, and we kept glomming onto each other, basically because we smelled it, you know? You were like, I think you might be gay and I'm gay. You're gay, I'm gay, we gay. Let me get together. Let's we three be gay from our separate corners

of the country. Oh my God, did you have a challenger's moment? It, okay. Were you Zendaya? So this is the thing. We ended up, we ended up finally like owning it up to each other. But it was a situation where like John liked Michael, Michael liked Bob, and Bob liked John. And it was such a bummer because it didn't really work.

It didn't come full circle. We all like the wrong boy. And we all sort of said so. It was such a mature thing of us to do. It really is. At 17 years old to be like, well, this isn't gonna work. We don't like each other. Right.

We know we're alike, but we don't like each other. And I even remember like after I won the thing. So that was like throughout the week. Maybe we were on the same hotel. We kept running into each other at the pool or whatever. But we kept, and I was really putting the moves on this one guy. And when I finally owned up to it, he was like, I like him. And that guy was like, well, I like you.

And I was like, oh, oh, oh. And I was like, oh, oh, oh. And it was like, really, we should have just had a threesome. Yes. But we didn't. We were way too... Well, I guess you were 17. We were 17. So it's not like that was the first thing.

You were like, you know what? Yeah. We'll solve this. We'll just have a threesome. Yeah, right. Exactly. I mean, I didn't even know how to kiss a boy. Yeah. So it was, you know.

But it was, we were really sweet. Everyone was really sweet to each other. But then after you won, did feelings change? After I won, I remember the two of them found me, rushed up to me to congratulate me. And I kind of looked at the one who I liked but didn't like me, kind of like, this is what you're missing. You could have been with the champion. You could have been with the champion.

Instead you're a loser alone. I love that so much. Michael, we have to take another break. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's talk about men's mental health for a sec. Okay, there's this weird pressure out there for men to always have it together, never show emotion, and never need help.

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Hey Michael, we all back. Wait, what's the most romantic vacation you've taken? Oh, um, we went to, we did a beautiful few weeks in Italy. That was pretty last minute. You know how being in this show, and my partner Ryan's an actor too, so it's hard to plan trips. Yeah, if you plan something, you will book something. So usually if I'm like hungry for something, I will book something and be like, let me cancel it. Yeah. How many times between the two of us have we had to do that?

And this time, I think we knew, we both knew we had something like in a month. And so we were able to be like last minute, let's go. And it was, and we went, we knew where we were flying into and we were flying out of, and we knew where we were staying the first night. Well, the first city.

And that was it. Honestly, I kind of like that. I love it. Choose your own adventure. We'll figure it out when we get there. I think that's the most fun. It was pretty cool. And also like it makes everything, I think it makes everything more special in that it's less special.

Like, you know, like there's no disappointments when you don't have a bunch of plans. Ryan and I travel great together. And I have a few friends that I like to travel with. I did have a pretty nightmarish travel experience. It wasn't travel, it was just flying from New York to LA. That's the last time I was in New York a few weeks ago for a week. And I flew back with my dog. And she's almost 14. And we've had her since she was two, they say.

We claimed. When we rescued her, she was two. And she goes everywhere. She's like 15 pounds. She goes dressing room backstage on Broadway or in my trailer drinking or whatever. She is an easy going, everyone loves her. But in the last year, she's, and I think part of it's her balance. She doesn't really hear so much anymore.

She's become less of a good traveler. And it stresses me out. And then, you know, a dog can sense that. And so when I get stressed out, she gets stressed out. And when, and Ryan is a more calming energy than I, just in general. Well, I think that's always a good relationship. Yes. One has to balance the other.

Like, I'm insane and my partner is so even keeled. Right. Ryan is like super, super chill. And I am a basket case. And so, Kinley, our dog, probably likes me more because I'm more fun. But definitely like he's daddy. And so when we're apart, really it's when he leaves. It's not us being apart, it's him leaving. Like if she sees him leave, that's really bad.

She gets really upset. And so this last trip, he left town the day before I left town. And he went to Chicago when I was heading to LA. And he left town, she was very sad and very stressed out. She watched him walk out. She watched him pack bags and she watched him walk out. And then it was just me and her for a day.

And I was preparing to leave. So I was stressed, she was sad. And the morning we were to fly, she got diarrhea. And sometimes when she gets diarrhea, it's like one day. And sometimes it's four weeks. Oh no. So that she got di- that happened one time. That only happened one time.

Everyone's like, your dog isn't healthy. Your dog is not okay. And you're a bad dad. That happened one time. She was sick for four weeks and the vets didn't know what was going on. So this is the morning we were about to fly. She's got diarrhea. And I'm like, is this gonna be my life for the next four weeks again?

And so I stress out, she stresses out, I stuff her in a bag and we get in a cab and she is, and usually she just goes to sleep in the bag. But now she's like moving around, she's scratching, it's not good. And we get to the airport and we go to one of those like pet relief rooms, which are so great. And she's still very sick, she's still pooping, she's still pooping, it's not good. And my worst nightmare in pet travel woes happens on this flight. She shits in her bag.

Oh no. And I'm in the middle seat. Oh no. travel woes happens on this flight, she shits in her bag. Oh no. And I'm in the middle seat. Oh no. Luckily I was traveling with a friend and she was on the aisle, so I was like, sorry, you gotta move. And I gotta take this rancid pet to the bathroom so that it doesn't disturb everyone around me.

Oh God. Because all I need is for 30 people to turn around and be like, are you the guy from Shrinking with your shitty dog? Or did you shit? Or is it you? You stinky, shitty, shitty Shrinking man. Oh my God. Your show should be called Shitting.

Shitting, not Shrinking. So I have to take her to the... And it happens three times. Oh, no. Endless flight from New York to Los Angeles. And I'm in the tiny airplane bathroom, cleaning up dog shit. I literally at one point,

because the third time I could tell she was about to, so I got out of the bathroom in time and put her on the floor so she could sit up, shit on the floor of the airplane bathroom. And I'm like standing on the toilet. So she has the, she's walking around in a circle with her face in the corner. And then finally like, you know, and I'm on the ground wiping. I'm wiping the floor of an airplane bathroom. I'll say this.

It was probably the first time it was cleaned in a very long time. Thank you. They're fucking disgusting Disgusting oh And I had because I knew she was sick I had the foresight to like get a packet of wipes and like so I had I had what I needed Mm-hmm, and I did you know, I wasn't like a disgusting poop smeared man for the whole day But wow was that a tough one?

disgusting poop-smeared man for the whole day, but wow, was that a tough one. That's traumatic. Traumatic. I don't fly with my dog because he bites and he's bad. Um... But I, after that, I would be like, that's a wrap. I'm so sorry.

You gotta stay here. But also, there's doggy diapers. But I'm sure that didn't occur to you at the time. Oh, well, no. And I didn't know... Excuse me. That was a horrible hiccup. I didn't know that she... I almost threw up. Also, I'm also nauseous from the story.

Um, I... I didn't know about... I mean, I guess I knew there was doggy diapers. Yeah, but it's not like your first thought to be like, oh, I'll just slap a diaper on my dog. It's wild. Yeah. And it's also... I mean, so much of it is like, oh, I'll just slap a diaper on my dog. It's wild. Yeah. And it's also, I mean, so much of it is like, I feel bad for her.

Down there in that little bag. Trying to tell me that she needs to get out and poop. And it's like, you can't, we're on a plane. Sorry about it. There's nowhere for you to go. You have to just like walk around in circles inside your little bag and then poop on yourself. But it is nice that they didn't have to reroute the plane.

Do you remember the story about the... There was a passenger on a plane who shit everywhere and they had to like reroute the plane. It's not funny, but it really is. They had to reroute the plane? Yeah, because someone was shitting up and down the aisles. I don't know any of the ins or outs. Oh, this does ring a bell. I simply don't know any details other than there was somebody, they be shitting.

And why? I don't know. They were sick. They be shitting. And they didn't go to the bathroom? I think they were trying to make it to the bathroom. And then they were, it was like a train. That's so sad.

Yeah. That's so sad. We're all just like barely alive. I know. You know? And it's wild that your body will just go, oh no, I'm not gonna do what I normally do. It's like, but please, please let me shit in the toilet. Have you ever had food poisoning?

I've had food poisoning more times than I can count. Same. Let's see, last. When was the last time? Last Sunday, I. Last Sunday. Left pizza in my car overnight. And then when I went to go walk my dog, I like grabbed something out of the car and I was like, ooh, there's pizza in my car overnight, and then when I went to go walk my dog,

I grabbed something out of the car, and I was like, oh, there's pizza in here. And I was like, I don't think I should eat that. But I took it into the house and then I ate it. And then I was so sick for two days. What kind? It was just a little shitting. And by a little, I mean a lot.

All the shit. Like truly, all the pizza I ate came right fucking out almost immediately. It's still in a triangle shape somehow And I even texted multiple people before I ate it should I eat this and they all said no I said I'm gonna do that's yeah I would say most of the time that I've had food poisoning, while I'm eating the thing that poisoned me, there's a moment where I go, huh, maybe not.

And yet, I finish it. Yeah, it's just like... Because we're disgusting animals. Food. I want food. Give me the food. I know. And my boyfriend was gonna bring me over the pizza that he had left over, because we like split it up. I took two pieces home and he kept two pieces. And I was like, should I eat this? And he goes, no, I'll bring you my refrigerated slice.

And I was like, no. You don't have to. So then I ate the car slice. And it was truly just like chewing on Pepto Bismol for three days or two days. It was tough. I'm so sorry. And I did it to myself. And then two days later, I hit myself in the face with, so I have a Jeep, like a soft top Jeep, and the back window pops out and you can like flip it up

onto the roof to get stuff into the back. And it's like a pretty heavy bar that like locks in for it to like lock down. And I didn't put it on the roof high enough and it came down it hit me right in the face and knocked my glasses off and I think I had a concussion. Oh my god. So that was like two days after I got over the food poisoning. I had a tough week last week. You should be dead. I should be dead and then I went to Beyonce the day after that. What day? What day was that? This was... Is it Sunday? No this was Wednesday so, so I hit myself on... Oh, you went to the Friday show? I went to Sunday.

Mmm, I think it was the Wednesday show. Maybe there wasn't a Wednesday show? Yes, it was. Yeah, okay. Because I was in Denver on Thursday, and then I changed altitudes, and then my head hurt even more. Oh my God. It was a wild week. You had food poisoning, a concussion, Beyonce, and altitude sickness? Uh-huh.

How are you here? I simply don't know. I don't know. And altitude sickness. Do you have altitude sickness? No, I've never had that. You're very, very, very lucky. So mine isn't like... So sometimes I'll be a little dizzy.

During my shows, I like stepped a little funny, and I was like, am I going down? Then I just had to concentrate on standing up. In the middle of a show? Yes. Oh my god. And then I get depressed. I get really sad with altitude sickness.

And I have to like be in a room in the hotel that has a lot of windows. So like I can open the windows and like have the light and I don't feel like I should walk into traffic. But it's awful. And are you aware during the depression that this is due to your- Yes.

Because the first time it happened, I didn't know. And I was like, why? I'm the saddest human. I'm so sad. I hate this. I have to do these shows and like pretend to be happy. And then I Googled it once I left. I was like, can altitude sickness make you sad?

And it was like, uh-huh. Yeah, it's a part of it. But it's absolutely wild. Like this last time, I knew it was gonna happen. And then I was like sitting in my bed sobbing about nothing. I think I maybe like stubbed my toe and I was like, nothing will ever be the same.

Wow, but really it's like, I was just so sad to be this high. Yeah, I'm too high up. I have to come down. I don't want to be so close to the sky. I don't want to be this close to Jesus. I gotta go. That's fascinating.

I didn't know that. Yeah, it's real tough. Wow. I don't know that we should talk more about food poisoning, but have you ever had it the other way? Puking? Yeah. Not really. I'm not a puker. I do not throw up a lot

Interesting you've had it the oh yes many many times. Yeah, no and I've had both at once well. How does that work out? Do you have to get a bucket you you have to be near a toilet? Yeah, yeah, you have to be near something. This is I can't believe we we're talking about this. You're allowed to cut, please cut this. No, don't cut this. I've had it once where I was like, just like shitting, blasting off, and then being like, oh, I gotta get up and turn around. Uh-huh.

What about the exact same time? No, that's never happened. My body's been kind to me. It's like one then the other. It's happened to me at the exact same time. Where literally, there's in the center, in my core. Uh-huh. There is explode, there are multiple explosions happening and it's going in both directions.

Oh yikes. I could never. It was so bad. I thought I should be dead. I should be dead. And it was, I was in London. What did you eat? Do you remember?

Scallops. In Chinatown. Sometimes seafood will really fucking wreck you. And I love seafood. And I had had food, so I was there for two months for a job. And at the beginning of the job, I got food poisoning. And then a month later, I had scallops and I got it again. You know, you got a bookend thing sometimes.

You know? What's it like working with Harrison Ford? He is so cool. I love working with him. He is, I mean, it's so weird. It's still weird. Like, he's Han Solo. He's Indiana Jones. He's Jack Traynor from Working Girl.

Never seen that. You never saw Working Girl? No. Oh. And I've never seen Indiana Jones, but I have ridden the ride. So I like, I get it. It's just like. It's like, we the ride. So I like, I get it.

It's like, we're exploring. So I get it, Bugs. That's a terrifying ride. Really? I liked it. I thought it was fun. It's the darkness, it's the bugs, it's the snakes. It scares the shit out of me. Have you ever done the Disney plaid experience? Yes.

That's how I did it. I'll never go back to Disney again unless a friend is paying for it and invites me. It's very hard to go after you've done the plaids. Michael, my favorite part was you enter from the exit and then you look at a child who's been waiting for three hours and then you get on before them and you're like, yeah! I loved it. Oh my god. You get on the ride and then there's like a slight delay and you're like, what's happening?

Yes, you instantly become a bitch. You're like, why aren't we going? And then you can ride the ride twice if you want. I know, I know. That blew me away. I know. You just don't get off. I know.

I know, you could literally do every ride in the park. It's so fun. In a day. So when I was doing Ugly Betty, we had this privilege to go, you could get a plaid for, I mean, I don't know what it is anymore, but back then,

because this was an ABC show and ABC studios, so it's all Disney. And we had this privilege where we could get it, we could, we could get it four times a year. We just softly both gasped. Because it is, I think 10 grand. To pay for it? I think we pay for it. It's 10,000. It ranges from $450 to $900 per hour with a minimum of seven hours. So it can roughly equal like 10 grand.

Yeah. And then, yeah. And then there's how many people minimum ten, right? Yeah, something like that. I think it oh There's like a minimum amount of people that you need I think my maximum was ten people Oh, maybe there's a max and maybe you just be like, but it was all free for me was all that So cool free ten free tickets and a free guide. I mean, that's the perk. And also, by the way, I was on TV. So it's not like I couldn't afford to buy tickets to Disneyland. Which is funny.

Because when you start making money, you get a lot of free things. And I'm like, where the fuck was that at when I didn't have money? I know. It's wild. It blows me away. Every time, it's still, every time I get something for free, I'm like, really? This is just free for me? Yeah, it's nuts. Like, clothing companies will send me clothes,

and I'm like, but I have them now. I have clothing. So now I like give it to like friends and stuff. Oh, that's, yeah. I guess I shouldn't say it on the podcast, but I'm like, if I'm, you'll cut this out. ["Sweet Homework"] podcast, but I'm like, if I'm, you'll cut this out. Now we'll do more podcasts that you can keep.

Michael, do you have any advice for single people? Great question. And I'm not sure that I really do have any advice. But I do think when my friends who are single, who are perpetually single, I think that they are looking too closely for someone. And not necessarily allowing themselves to accept interest from people. And maybe this quicker way to say that is their standards are too high. Or their standards are too specific.

Because I don't even want to like say too high because that's, that's, you know, that's, that's all subjective, right? But, but I do sometimes feel like people who are perpetually single are looking with blinders on and not being open to other possibilities. Is that a crazy thing to say? I don't think that's a crazy thing to say. When I was single, I think I had blinders on, being like, I just want a relationship.

And then my therapist was like, how about you stop going into dates going, I want a relationship, and you go into dates with zero expectations. So if you have a bad time, it's bad. If you have a good time, it's good, but you had no expectations. So you had a nice time.

Either you have a story or you had a nice experience or whatever. And that changed how I looked at dating a lot. That's very interesting. And I feel like that advice works for a lot of different things, not just dating. I mean, it works with auditions. I never go into an audition being like,

I like, yeah, maybe I'll like want it, but I'm just like, I'm gonna, this is why I miss in-person auditions, because if it's in Santa Monica, okay, I drive an hour, whatever. But during that hour, I go, I'm gonna perform for two to three people. And during that performance, they're gonna laugh

because I'm really funny. When I walk in, they're gonna be really excited to see me. And then either I'll get it or I won't, I don't know, but I'm gonna have a nice time for like the hour that I drive down and then the 10, 15 minutes I'm in there. And that really helps. It helps when... Because it's like I'm not gonna book everything.

Also, half the time there's an offer out to somebody. Also, usually by the time they get to me, they've been like, oh, we keep rereading the script and we have to have some sort of diversity. Right. We cast all these other people. We gotta get some black in here. And then I'm always late, so sometimes I'll miss the black hour and I'm there for the Asian hour.

Oh my god. That's so funny. It's happened so many times where I'm like, am I in the right place? And I'm like, and then I'll see a couple names of girls I know and I'm like, I miss the black hour. I'm just like, I miss the black hour. I miss the black hour. But yeah, you can't like get precious about things. Well, and also with auditions, like, unless you blow it,

and that's the thing, if you go in and blow it, okay, that's on you. Most of the time you either did it, you either got it or didn't get it before you even walk in. Correct. And a lot of times it's like, just make sure the casting director, like I've gotten other parts in things. or didn't get it before you even walk in. Correct. And a lot of times it's like,

just make sure the casting director, like I've gotten other parts in things. Yeah. Where it's like down the line, they're like, hey, can you just come in for a day and do these six lines? We just like you. And I'm like, great, okay, whatever. Yeah.

And I've also had casting directors be like, honey, you're not right for this, but we just see you in a laugh today. And I'm like, you didn't have to tell me that, but glad I made the drive. You're welcome. Okay. Yeah, that's very interesting. Acting is interesting.

The whole industry is so strange. So strange. Anyway, Michael, we've really come to the end. Do you have anything you want to promote? I'm on Shrinking. Are you, season three is to promote? I'm on shrinking. Are you, season three is airing? It just aired? No, we're shooting season three. Okay, so season two just aired.

Season two just aired. And season three is going to be awesome. That's exciting. You work with one of my favorite people, Jessica Williams. Oh my god. Who's in Roe House? Yes. And is fantastic. She's the best. I think you would really like it. The cast is really fun.

And it's fun. It's so fun. It's on my list of things I need to watch. I won't lie to your face. I haven't watched it yet, but I've watched little clips from it and there's a very funny clip about, oh shit, it's a lady screaming. Oh, um, I shouldn't have brought it up. This is humiliating.

There's a great clip that you may have seen where he beats a bunch of people up in the parking lot and it's all very silly and charming. No, this is a lady in a neighborhood and she's yelling and maybe there's garbage cans. This could be any movie. Maybe there's garbage cans. Listen, sometimes I'll be explaining things to people and they're like, you have to use more words. And I'm like, I don't know how!

Wait, Michael, I ask everybody this. I've only missed it a couple of times. Would you date me? Yes. I think we would have a really good time. I think so too. Sexually. Me too. I would suck your dick so hard, and with fervor. Okay, if you like this episode of what?

Oh, we've reached the end. If you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me, you could like it. You could rate it, subscribe. Give me five stars on Apple Podcasts. And if you write me something nasty hitting on me to Why Won't You Date Me podcast at Gmail dot com, I will read it. This person writes, Hi, Nicole, I found a special recipe to satisfy your lasagna craving. I love lasagna I once ate it every Friday for a year you bring your big old pussy noodles

I'll bring the Italian sausage. We'll use tomato sauce as lube Oh my god, that's gonna burn and my cum will make it extra cheesy. Your cum is sick. I'll fuck you so well You'll be moaning in Italian. Oh Or something like that anyway, that's Italian from Alex. Hey Alex Thank you, but if your cum is cheese you got to get V to the doctor You've been listening to why won't You Date Me With Me, Nicole Byer. This show is produced and edited by Mars with executive producer Anya Kenovskaya. It's engineered by Casey Donahue with guest research by Lindsay Kempf.

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