Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Measuring Love & Male Delusion (w/ Tracie Thoms)

Episode Date: May 29, 2026

Tracie Thoms (RENT, The Devil Wears Prada 2) joins Nicole to discuss her 8-year journey to join the iconic cast of RENT, the wild logic men use to avoid commitment, and why some of them want all the benefits of a girlfriend with zero of the responsibility. Tracie also breaks down the nightmare of having dated someone who tried dictate her career, and reveals why living apart from her partner has actually been the ultimate relationship hack. Plus, why does true love make you feel sleepy? And Nicole opens up about her PMDD diagnosis.I'm just such a big fan of RENT and so happy we have Joanne on, omg folks this is a big one for me personally. Rentheads unite!Watch this episode on our YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/@WhyWontYouDateMePodcastTake our listener survey and shape the future of the podcast!Support this podcast by checking out our sponsor:• Squarespace: Head to squarespace.com/DATEME to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code DATEME.Follow:All Links: linktr.ee/whywontyoudatemeTour Dates: linktr.ee/nicolebyerwastakenYouTube: @WhyWontYouDateMePodcastTikTok: @whywontyoudatemepod Instagram: @nicolebyerX: @nicolebyerThis is a Headgum podcast. Advertise on Why Won't You Date Me? via Gumball.fm.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Want to watch this episode? Catch the full video on YouTube. Just hit the link in the episode description. This is a headgum podcast. Ooh baby, we're working on some fun stuff behind the scenes. And we want you to help shape the future of why won't you date me? We put together a super quick listener survey because I want to hear exactly what you want to see. Who are your absolute dream guests? What kind of wild topics do you want me to cover? Tell me what you want. The survey can be found in the link for the why won't you date me link tree in the episode description. Click that and the survey link will be listed at the top. It only takes a few minutes and truly helps me make the show better for you. Answer now.

Find the why won't you date me link tree in the episode description for the listener survey. You Date Me, a podcast for me and Nicole Byer was trying to figure out why I was so single, even though you could come on a table and tell me it was. those little rings that you put on a three-ring binder piece of paper when the little hole breaks. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Wait, the paper, the sticker. Do you remember the little sticker?

Yeah, I don't know what that's called. Reinforcer? Reinforces. A paper reinforcer? I think they were called like reinforcements or something. I wonder if they sell them anymore. Nobody writes anymore. Nobody writes things down anymore.

Anyway, my guest today is a fabulous actress and singer, you know, from playing Joanne and the movie musical Rent and the hit drama series 9-1-1. She is currently reprising her role as Lily in the highly anticipated sequel, The Devil Wears Prada 2, which I've been calling the Devil 2 wears Prada. The Devil 2? The Devil 2 wears Prada. The Devil 2! Where's Prada? So much for being here. for having me. Okay, I didn't say this when we were talking before we got started. Yeah, we need to keep it on on camera. I don't want to blindside you, but I love rent. Oh, wow. Thank you.

In a way that might be sick. Yeah. I listen to rent while I'm driving, not in order, just out of order on shuffle. Out of order. Out of order on shuffle, which is interesting how you put the story. So every time it's a different story. Uh-huh. I don't even know if it's a story. It's just like a voicemail. We start with Angel dies. We start with that. Angel dies in the very beginning. And you were the last Joanne on Broadway? I was.

What was that like? It was like a dream fulfilled. I saw the original cast in 1997 when I was in college. Funnily, if an ex-boyfriend, got me those tickets. Oh, okay. So we're talking about dating here and something like. Next boyfriend, I have those tickets. And I was like, okay, fine.

No. Actually, I wasn't like, I was like, this would probably be great. Because it was like interesting because I've heard that. the music from it. And the music is super, like, rocky. And I was like, I don't know if, I don't know if this is speaking to me. Because it was so different from musicals that I had known before. I mean, it was like very hearkening back to like, Jesus Christ Superstar.

Yeah, very like, Andrew Lloyd Webb or like, very like. Yeah. But more, but like more. Yeah. Like more more. Yeah. And I was like, I don't, I don't know. This is a lot of sound.

I've never said that before. I know. That's an exclusive. This is a lot of sound. A lot of. I was like, this is a musical? I don't know what this is. And then we went, and then I wept.

And I was not, I'm not like a crier, you know. And I wept at laymise when I saw LeMay's as a child. And then I wept it right. And I was like, I must be in this show. And then I immediately started auditioning. My first time auditioning, I drove up to New York with a bunch of friends. We got in line. The line was wrapped around.

Were you still in college? I was still in college. Okay. I was doing a show in college, and I was also doing another show twice a week, Joseph of the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, which is a big sing as a narrator. Yes. As a narrator, and I was like 20, 21. So we drove up at night. Stood in line, the line had wrapped around the block.

So do you know New York? Yeah, this is at the Niederlander. No. The audition was a cross trip in the public theater. Oh, okay. On Lafayette. Yes. 440 Lafayette.

I always never forget. I love that you remember that. So the line was wrapped down Lafayette around like 4th Street and back up Broadway, I think, to the McDonald's. So it was like a full fucking city block. There was a full city block of people waiting to sing their faces off. This was an open call? This was an open call. They did open calls for rent.

So we got in line. We're at the McDonald's all the way around. And we waited all more. This is like 5 a.m. We got in line. Oh my God. The line was already wrapped around. It was in the line.

Got on. B, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then the friends I was with had a show that night back in Baltimore. I was coming from Howard University. Back in, like, college park, they had a show that night. So we had to leave. They had to leave. And I was like, okay.

Like, Tracy, we got to go. We're not going to get seen. We have a show tonight. And I was like, okay. This is probably at 3 p.m. I'm like, okay, give me 10 more minutes. Okay, great. 10 minutes went by.

I was like, okay, maybe we should. Maybe we got to go. We got no voice. I went to speak and nothing came out. And I was like, I was like, maybe. And I had no voice. I had never lost my voice before. And I was like, okay, all right.

Got it. The universe is like, you gotta go. Get my car. Not my time. Let's go. My voice was out for a week. I had never lost my voice. I couldn't do my show.

I couldn't even do my little Joseph show that week. But after that, I just kept auditioning. So another guy, a friend of mine, his name is David St. Louis. He's fantastic. I made him go to the audition because we went to Howard together. So he was ahead of me in line. And he went in. I said, if you go to this audition, David, you were going to book it. And he did.

Okay. So then he got me. I've never gone into this much detail before. Sorry. So the David got me an audition later when they came to D.C. And then I started my auditions for rent. I auditioned for eight years. Eight years?

Eight years auditioned for rent on Broadway and never got it. And then I'm, I, I, I, years is such a long time. Yeah, I went to a whole grad school in between that. You know what I mean? I got out of grad school and just, and you went to Juilliard for grad school, yeah. Which is so cool.

It's cool. It's cool. But, but my, my, I was doing the show Hair in D.C. when I started Juilliard, because we kept getting extended. So I'd been to go back down on the weekends. And then I had a final callback for rent. And I lost my voice again. Huh.

Yeah. there was something there's something there's something there huh yeah i wonder what it is but anyway didn't get it obviously so went to juliar instead well maybe that's what it is it was like you were meant to go to juliette i was everything is ordered but you know what we it's hard to um it's hard to give up your give up the idea of like having free will for thinking everything is ordered there's to be a balance of like okay how much of it am i in control? how much of it isn't out of my hands. It's very difficult.

So I went to Julia, I got out of Julia, I tried to audition again for rent. And I was like, you know what? Maybe this just isn't for me. Like my last audition for Broadway, you know, Bernie Tulsi, who was a director, cast director, was like, you're going to be in this show at some point. We just got to make sure that everything is right. I'm like, maybe I'm not, actually. It's like, it's just.

And I know when I first started auditioning for it, I was just too young for it. Because I was 21. Yes. But I looked really young. Yes. Black don't crack. Black don't crack. And Joanne was a lawyer.

So they're like... She had to go to law school. No, yeah. You know. But yeah. And then I auditioned for the movie in 2004. And I was like, this is my last run audition. I didn't even think it went well.

You know, I thought I kind of tanked it. And I was like, yeah, I'm done. You know, because rent is not the only show I auditioned a lot for. I auditioned a lot for the Lion King. I auditioned a lot for Iida Those, you know, just every year you did that audition to see if it was your moment.

And then, yeah, and then I got the movie a month later and I couldn't believe it. And then did the movie. Then it was closing on Broadway and they called and said, hey, would you be our final Joanna on Broadway? I was like See, hearing the whole story

it was like meant to be. Like you, it wasn't that wasn't the time, your time was to be the, like, to close the show as Joanne. And they filmed that one. So I'm in two rent movies. That's really fucking cool. It's weird. It's really cool. It's very cool. I'm grateful, also strange. Yeah. When did you start singing? I'm very jealous of people who can sing. I had this weird obsession when I was a child. I was an only child until I was about 12, 12 and a half, almost 13. And when I was young, there was a show called Junior Star Search.

and I for some reason was obsessed with getting on Junior Star Search with Ed McMahon I don't know why because I was kind of a shy kid and I had no talent it was not talented I was not a talented child really really you weren't like singing around the house and stuff apparently I was but I was very bad at it so I started acting class when I was not

so it had acting singing dancing and comedians and little comedian children. Yeah, a little comedian child. I love that. That's fun. On Junior Star Search. I tried to pick my thing that I wanted to do. Oh, I see.

So like once you get on Star Search, you then get put into little groups. Kind of like Juilliard. Kind of like Juilliard. You know, or you, you know, I don't know how anyone even got on Junior Star. I didn't even know the process or anything. But there was singing competition.

There was a dance competition. There was a comedian competition. And there was an acting competition. And I knew I couldn't dance. Well, I was already in dance class at Wally Saunders Dance Studio in Baltimore, Maryland. I was not good. I had no flexibility even as a child. I don't understand that either.

You're like a six-year-old who can't touch their toes. I could not do splits. I didn't do any of it. I couldn't sing. I was like, what if I forget the words or I cracked? That would be really embarrassing. I knew I couldn't tell jokes. But the acting part I could probably do.

And I went to see my parents and I was like, Mom, Dad, I want to take acting class. And they were like, okay, great. And then next thing I knew, I was taking acting classes. But acting, singing and dance. Like a camp. And I really was very, very still bad at dancing. I could learn the choreography, but I had not knees and no flexibility. And also not good at singing.

So my parents told me later, way later, when Rent came out, they did an interview at my house, came to my house. No, hometown girl. And my mother, God bless her, said, well, no, she could. couldn't sing as a child. She would sing in the shower and we were just like wince and then one day it wasn't bad. I was like, Mom, Mom. That's so funny when moms do that. My first acting performance was in high school and it was just a weekend. So it was Friday, Saturday Sunday. And Friday night killed. Saturday also killed. And somebody complimented me and my mother turned to them and was like,

well, if you thought tonight was really good, should have seen her last night. And I was like, I was like, well, let me have this moment. Can I? You know? Could I? They keep you humble? Truly. They really do.

Like, hey, hey, hey. Hey now. That's so funny. This show. One day? One day it wasn't bad. And I did the show when I graduated from high school where I had to start singing offstage. And my family came and it was like I was a slave.

The show is Big River, which is a great, a great show. But I was singing the song called The Crossing, which was great, a great song. You start off stage. And I started singing, Khorrasn't too. I'm singing. And my father apparently was like, who's that singing?

And then I came on stage and it was me. And he was like, that was my daughter. That's incredible. And my grandfather was like, she got that from me. Took all the credit. You know, it's a very,

it's a piece of lore. Old people will be claiming everything. Oh, anything that's good. Like, what? No, I didn't get anything from you. I did this. It's me.

I did it. I listened to the CD over and over. and it just copied it because I'm 18 and that's what we do. So Devil Wears Prada, you auditioned for that on your 30th birthday? On my 30th birthday. No, wait, no, that's not true.

I auditioned it on my 30th birthday. I got the call on my 30th birthday. I auditioned for it before then. I auditioned for Emily, actually. Oh, really? Yeah, and they were like... I always love hearing about that when someone's like, oh, I auditioned for this part,

but then this other part was better for me. Yeah, it was. I mean, I went in for Emily and I did it. You know what I mean? And they were like, nah. No. Come back in for Lily. When you saw the movie where you're like, oh, yeah.

Absolutely. That's happened to me before where I auditioned for something. And I leave and I'm like, yeah, I wasn't right for it. I know I wasn't right for it. And then you see it and you're like, oh, yeah, I definitely wasn't right for that. I definitely wasn't right for it. And like, thank God because like we wouldn't have Emily Blunt's performance in that. She's so good.

Me being a snarky black girl. You're so good at Lily. And I like in double two wears Prada when she, Andy, when she goes to like look at the apartment and she's flirting with that guy, then she leaves. And then you come in, you're like, what's your deal? What's your story? It's so funny. Just interrogation. I love it.

Have you ever done that in real life? Of course. I'm more subtle about it in real life. I was like, hey, so. What are your intentions with my friend? What are your plans? What are your life plans? Are you interested in monogamy? Are you interested in monogamy? Such a funny question. So is that one of your interests? Is it a hobby? Do you flirt with it? Do you pretend you like it? Do you like it? Do you pretend you like it? And then you don't. I dated a man once who was like, I don't know if I'm into monogamy. And I was like, oh. And this was like after I was like, oh, do you want to just like date each other? And he had kind of mentioned it like the date before. He was like, yeah, I think I just want to date one person. And he was like, yeah, I think I just want to date one person. And he was like, And I was like, cool. I think that person's me.

Yeah. And then I was like, so, do you want to just like date one another? And he's like, I don't know if I believe in monogamy. And I was like, oh, he wants monogamy with somebody else. Maybe. Or maybe he's lying. I mean, I think. Who knows?

I dated a guy for far too long who, when we broke up after years of being together, or so I believed we were. I was like, but I was like, but, you know, he had been in a long-term relationship before me. So I'm thinking he's a relationship person. So when we broke up, I was like, I don't understand. He was like, I just feel like I need to just, you know, be free and do my own. And I was like, but I just thought, are you a relationship? I thought you're a relationship person. He's like, I mean, I've been in relationships, but it doesn't mean I'm a relationship person.

And I was like, you probably could have told me that years ago. Yes. And saved each of us a lot of time. Yes. I feel like, wait, real quick, we got to take a break. This podcast is brought to. you by Squarespace. We all have those big ideas that we talk over drinks, but never actually start because actually getting it off the ground feels impossible. Squarespace is the all-in-one

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but I don't want to be in a relationship. Yeah. And I'm like, but you want all of the treats of the relationship. They want the comfort and the support. Yes. Of a relationship, but no responsibility. No responsibilities. And I'm like, I think if you just say that up front.

Yeah, there are women probably who are down for that. Yeah. But they don't believe that. And also they don't want that in a woman. Yes. I don't think a lot of those men. want a wife-type woman. Yes.

They don't want a woman who's also like, yeah, I'm free too. You know, I'll get mine in too. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. Only me. Just me. Just for me. But I can go out and do whatever I want to do.

Yeah, I feel like that's so wild. Yeah, I think it goes back to this idea that people really think that biologically men are supposed to have sex with lots of women and women are supposed to not. Yes, which doesn't make any sense because I'm like, well, these men are out here fucking out like a bunch of ladies. Who are the ladies that they're fucking?

Is it one lady? Yeah, but ideally for them, all the ladies they're fucking are only fucking him. Mm-hmm. Right. So they're all just in their homes waiting for him. Just waiting. Like, when will that man come?

The Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, you know, they're waiting for him to come. Like Snow White. The Snow White was saying someday my prince will. It's a sleeping beauty. Does anybody know? Mars, help. Looks like that. Someday my prince will come is from Snow White.

Great. I was right. Great. You were right. Yeah, they want a whole plethora of Snow White's waiting for their prince to come. But you don't know what Snow White was doing with them, seven dwarfs? Then there's that. She might have been fucking all of them, imagine?

That's why he's dopey. Oh, God. Sleepy? That's what I want to sleep. He put it at work. And those are the only two names I know. Grumpy, sleepy dope. Oh, grumpy.

Oh, why? Or is that a smurf? I don't know. Grouchy? Grouchy? Happy, sleepy. I get the smirfs. Bashful, sneezy, happy.

Or some more. Bashful, sneezy. happy. I really do get the Smurfs and the Seven Dwarfs names mixed up. I'm not a huge Smurf head. Is there one lady Smurf head? That's wild. Later on there was another little smurf girl.

Okay. We don't know where she came from. There's baby smurf. I'm like, where do baby smurf come from? Where do a baby smurf come from if there's only one woman? Uh-oh. Smurfs are problematic. The Smurfs are problematic, but we love them.

They're so cute. They're very cute. I always wanted to come across them in a wooded area. I always look for mushrooms to see the smurfs. But I have no idea of the scale of the smurfs. Like, are the smurfs this big? Oh, that's actually really interesting. I don't know how big they are. I always thought the smurfs were like handheld.

Yeah, hold your hand. Yeah, right? Handheld little smurfs? Because a big smurf, that's scary. A big smurf is terrifying. That's like Blue Shrek. Yes. I don't like that.

They're supposed to be three apples high. So about seven point five inches. That's bigger than I thought. That's bigger than I thought. Ew. So they're like this smirsched this big? I don't like that. That's...

Wait, do we not know what seven inches is? No. Apples about that big, right? So on top of each, yeah, that's bigger than I thought. Yeah, too big. I don't like that. I thought they were like 80-bitty. Maybe three inches.

That's what I thought. Maybe four? I don't know. I don't know. But anyway. Did you date while you were in? in grad school. Like, did you, how did you balance dating

while being in shows and stuff? It was always like, the answer was yes. But it was always like the shows come first. But, you know, my first boyfriend, my high school boyfriend, had an issue with that. You know, he was very much like,

well, we need to come first. And I'm like, well, we're 17, you know. We're 17, sir. No. No. But he really had the idea that, my acting career was going to be like a hobby. And I guess I kind of did too.

Before I really gave over to it, I went to Juilliard and was like, let me just actually try and like believe in myself for once. You know what I mean? And so, but then in grad school, I dated a classmate that was very scandalous. So we tried to like keep it quiet for a while. But then it became very obvious to people. And that was fine. but it just added an extra layer of angst

to my life. Does that make sense? I think so. Did it feel weird to perform in front of the person you're dating? No, it kind of added like an extra like, I want to make you proud of me. Do you know what I'm saying? But then when it came time to graduate and like get out in the world,

then it started to be like, oh my God, am I competing with him? Oh, that's interesting. Which I hated. Yeah. I hated that feeling. But I had to be like honest with myself about it. You know what I mean?

That I was like a very competitive person. And I didn't like that part about me. It is interesting to feel like you're competing with your partner. Yeah. Because obviously you weren't going out for the same role. Obviously. It didn't make any sense. But it does make sense because it's like even though we're not going out for the same roles,

if you book something and I just don't book something, then it feels like you're a little bit ahead of me and like maybe you're winning. But it's like... But why does it matter? Yeah. Because it's like you'll book something eventually. But yeah, I've never really dated another actor or anything.

And I feel like unconsciously that would be in the back of my brain. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Luckily, at Juilliard, we had therapists. Really? I knew enough about myself. but like this isn't a good feeling. I don't like the way this feels. So I started going to the therapist at school.

Like I don't like the fact that I feel like I'm competing with my boyfriend. And she's like, oh, that's a very valid thing. And that's real. Or I'm jealous if he's getting stuff. You know, it was really a horrible feeling. Because they exist at the same time. Like, I'm happy for you. Exists at the same time.

But I wish it was also happening for me. Yeah. And it's something. that if you, if you like suppress, get stronger. It's what, you know, it's like you have to admit it and understand it's a human feeling. So then you can like, so you can work through it and get to the other side of it, you know. But in the meantime, the partner that you have was like, I feel like you're, you're jealous of me. You want me to not win.

I'm like, no, I really, really want you to win. I just also want to win. Yeah. You know, because I've devoted a lot of time to this as well. And it was very, it ended up being a real big strain on our relationship we events who broke up. And it was really sad for me. But I understood it. You know, I got it.

Yeah. This was hard. You know, and then also blaming myself for that, you know, that whole thing. Like I'm just blaming myself. Yeah. And it's like, but it's not your fault. No, it's not, you know, but because also on the other hand, the grace on the other end of it is like, I understand these feelings. Let's work through them together. You know what I mean?

But he was also younger than me. So he was just like, I don't, I don't understand this. I don't get this. And I was like, I'm sorry. I'm working through it. You know, I'm trying to work it out. I do like that you were honest. Yeah, I mean, it's better to be honest, I think, about how you feel about things.

And a lot of people don't have that instinct. So they just seem crazy. If you don't tell your partner what's going on with you, you're just like, you're just like, I'm just going to be, oh, oh, the phone's ringing again for you. Where's my phone? My phone's not ringing. My phone. Where's my phone?

I don't even have a phone. Where's my old is Spielberg? Yeah, in my relationship, I have PMDD, which. which is just intense PMS. Oh. And it feels... PMDD. Yes.

Where the mood swings are wild. Wow. And there'd be times where he didn't do anything. And I'd be like, I want to kill you and everything is your fault. Like, what if I push him out of the bed? And it's like, what? Why? And then I was like, why am I feeling like this?

And I finally had to tell him. I was like, I think I have PMDD. Yeah. I think I had it before. we started living together. Yeah. But it's just exasperated because you're here.

Right. And you're in my way. Yeah. Kind of. In my face. In my face. Well, it feels like that when you're going through a spell. Yes.

And it's like he's not really in my way. We're just living together. Right. But when we weren't, I could just like be in a funk, gather myself, hang out for a couple hours, go back to my funk.

But now it's like, I'm in a funk. He's there. And then. Neither of us were understanding why I was in a funk. And then I finally was like, okay, I do have this thing. And it's not you. It is me. It is my hormones and my emotions and whatnot.

And it was just easier after I told him. Yeah, and how did he take that? He was absolutely fine. He was like, okay, let's just track your period and you let me know how you're feeling. And I'm like, yes. So now I'll be like, hey, I don't know if it's the PMD. but I'm like feeling not great. I'm feeling not great.

I'm feeling something coming over me. I feel like a cloud. Uh-huh. It's coming. A cloud is coming. It's approaching. I feel it. And I might get out of you for nothing.

Like once I was like, do you not see that sock? And I was like, why am I screaming about a sock? I could just pick up a sock. I don't care about the sock. That's what my therapist said. He was like, how about you just pick it up? Pick it up the sock. And I was like, mm, yes, okay.

But then resets. It starts to happen if you have to always pick up the stock. But yeah, it just makes everything better, I think, when you communicate with your partner. Communication is key, you know. This is also why my partner and I'm my current partner and I don't live together. Oh. He lives like seven minutes away. Okay. Very close. But it's like, I'm going to go sometimes, you know. And I don't have a wild mood swings. I think he needs his space more. And he gets like in a funk and I'm like, that's great. You go home. Yeah, go home. Don't. And I don't have any qualms about that.

I'm happy that he has a space. I think it's really, I think we're normalizing couples not living together more now. And I think it's actually fantastic. You know, we've been together seven years and it has worked great that he lives close, but not with me. I, you know. I think it helps him more. I mean, I will be a whole to be fine if he live with me. But I think he needs his space.

You know, he needs to watch the game. Yes. And scream and yell and throw things around. Yeah. He needs to be able to create. He's a photographer and an actor and he's fantastic and I love him. And he needs to be alone to create things. Or just to get away from me, which is enough, which is valid.

Yes, it is valid. And I really like that you didn't or it doesn't seem like you put pressure on yourselves to do like a societal norm. No, no. And it's just like, how do we function? How do we work? What's our rhythm? Yeah. You know what I mean?

But like, why don't you get married? I'm like it the way it is. Yeah. There's no need to get married. If you don't want to get married. Yeah, we don't own property together. So there's no like legal reason. We don't have children.

Yeah. So it's really fantastic. So at any moment, you know, because happiness is key, right? I want him to be happy. I want to be happy. And if any moment comes around that one of us is not happy, we can just say, This is not working for me anymore. You know, so people get mad at us.

We call each other partners. You know what I mean? But we actually are equal partners. No, you're definitely partners. Yes. In our relationship. So of any moment, you know, if at any moment I'm like, I'm not happy. We can just walk away.

We don't have to involve lawyers. Yes. You don't have to like. Property. Settle things. It's just like this was great. And I'm going to be grateful for the time we've had together. It's going to hurt.

I'm going to be very sad of it happens. Yes, obviously. But I will. say not combining finances and things like that, it would make, you know, breaking up easier. Like people fight over shit that it's like, wait, what? Once you're bound to each other financially or contractually or by law or before God or whatever, it is, it becomes an extra pressure on your relationship that I'm so happy that we don't have.

You don't have. Do you have like a set schedule? No, no, but we'll That's a weird question I know, no, we don't, but we have like a lot of things we do together and then he'll say, okay, so what's happening Monday? What's the schedule for Monday?

I'm like, oh, you have the day off. He goes, I have the day off. I'm like, yeah, you have the day off. And he's like, oh, thank God, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? But the day off could mean, he just comes over and we hang out, you know what I mean? But, but yeah, it's just,

it just really works because we're like really best friends. And it's really shown me what like a working, loving companionship is, you know, as compared to like things in the past where I've been chasing someone or waiting for someone or having anxiety about it or I don't know where they are and if they're going to call me back in time or oh my God, are they with somebody else or all that stuff that that we go through for so long. And when I've learned is that love and when you find your person, it is a very calm experience. Yeah. I watched a TED talk or something where it was like when your emotions are regulated and that person's not like spiking your anxiety or whatever, you feel calm with them. And I had never felt that until my current partner.

And I was like, well, the butterfly is kind of like not like went away. but I wasn't like scared to see him. I wasn't scared that like the date was going to go bad or I would say the wrong thing. And then my therapist was like, well, that's actually good. That's what it is. My therapist had to tell me that too. Because I was like, why aren't I scared?

Yeah, why don't I have the butterflies? It's like that's not real. It's not that's not a thing. That's not what it is. Yeah. We equate it with it because we listen to songs about it. So many bad things. Yeah.

We watch movies about it. shows show you, yeah. Yeah, we don't see enough representations of like, yeah, we're just here. Nice love, because that's not entertainment. Well, yeah, it's not drama. We need drama. It's not the drama.

Yeah, and he chase the drama. Especially, I think I was chasing drama as an actor because it was giving me feelings. You know what I mean? So I was addicted to feeling things. Yeah, that like dopamine. Yeah, of just, even if the feeling was bad. I was like, oh my God, I have feelings.

It's so dumb. It is dumb. But, like, that's just, I feel like that's just, sometimes that's how the human brain works. Yeah. It's like it's searching for something, a feeling of sorts. And we feel like that's what love is. So, like, you know, and I was watching an interview with Zendaya about Tom. She's like, I knew Tom was my guy because he makes me feel calm.

Oh. When I'm around, I feel very calm. You know, and there are all these things that go around, like the memes go around. Like, if you're constantly sleepy around your partner, that means that's your person. And that is my partner. That's very funny. He's always sleepy. He's like, hi.

Hello. He's like, listen, I feel very comforted and comfortable. That's really wild. You know, I just get. I get so sleepy. Yeah. That's a real thing. I did not know that.

I do. Yeah. Well, like, sit down to watch a movie and I'm like, what if I close my eyes? It'll be fine just for a second. Oh, the movie's over. Rest my eyes. The movie is finished. It's done.

It's so funny. I feel like old black people say, I'm going to rest my eyes. And I'm like, what? Go to sleep. Go to bed. What are you resting your eyes for? I know. Just go to bed.

Go to bed. Fighting sleep like children. My grandpa says that all the time. I'm just going to rest my eyes at the table. And I'm like, go lay down. Okay, that's that's. Well, he's 97. Okay, he can do whatever he wants.

He can do whatever he wants. Rest your eyeballs. Just rest. Just to... Just go rest your bones. My parents were out, I'm going to lay across the bed. I'm like, lay across the bed. What is that?

That means you're going to take a nap. Just take a real nice, deep nap. I'm just going to lay across the bed real quick. That's so funny. I'm going to lay across the bed. I'm going to lay across the bed. I always thought as a child I meant lay across. Oh, that's what I thought it meant.

Yeah, like not lay in the bed like you go to sleep. You're laying the opposite direction. Somehow that meant it was. temporary and like just for a moment. It's not the proper way that you're in the bed. All right, real quick. We have to take a break. Tracy, do you have any advice for single people?

Yeah, man. I mean, like being single is fine. You know, first of all, it's fine. There's so many things to do. Yeah? When you're by yourself. I think that we've, we're chasing partnerships. because we feel like, I don't know, we're afraid of being lonely or afraid of being alone.

Or, I mean, use that time when you're single to, like, explore the things that you love, you know, and, like, hang out with your other single friends because right now there's lots of single people in the world right now because, I don't know. I think people have too many choices. You know what I mean? I think, I know a lot of people who've met on, you know, online dating and stuff like that. And when I came up, you had to, like, meet somebody. Yeah. Go out and meet people.

And we have Tinder and Grindr and all these things where it's like, people are just, like, in your phone. And you're swiping. Yeah. It's weird. It's like shopping. It's like shopping for a mate. But then it's like, I don't know. It's like, I think that it's really affected, like, true connection a lot of ways because you're starting the relationship off in like a,

I don't know. I don't know how to explain it because I've been on one dating site. And I never even resulted in a date. Okay. It was just kind of like, do I swipe? I don't know how to do it. Do you know what I mean?

How long ago is this? This was about eight years ago. Okay. And funnily enough, my partner helped me set up my profile. That is actually very, very funny. Because he was my friends. And he was like, no, no, no, we've got to have a dog in there. Okay, great.

You got to show us to do some outdoor activities. activities. Okay, we've got to show him that you're funny, quirky. And I'm like, okay, are you setting this up for you? Turns out what's he? That's funny. Just cherry picking everything he likes about you. Yeah. Putting them in your profile and be like, somebody else will like it. He was helping. And then you didn't go on a date at all. Not one date. Did it result in? It was a couple of DMs. Because I just find it very strange for me. But I know a lot of people who love it. You know, they've met lots of people or they date constantly from. from Hinge or... I mean, I was on it and I did not like it. But also, it felt hard to, like, meet people in person because I feel like at bars, people don't really, like, approach people anymore. They don't. And it used to be...

I don't know. Something very thrilling about... Like, when I was young, like, in high school, middle school, high school, you go to the mall. Mm-hmm. And walk around the mall. Like, walk around the mall with your girls. Uh-huh.

And it would be a group of guys in the mall. And they were like, hey. You know what I mean? It was like you put your little outfit on and you go to the mall and you come home with some numbers. Everybody had like, you know, you write your number down before phones. We couldn't put your Instagram on the phone. They'll write your number down and give it to you. You have like little slips of paper at the end of the day.

And it was, they would call you. I never gave my number to anyone at the mall. I would try to talk to the boys and they'd be like, oh, not you. Not you. Not you. Okay. Okay. It's happened, you know, because it's like, it's like,

in my friend group at the time. Like I probably got the least amount. But yeah, there's just something that's even the excitement of the possibility of meeting people in real life that people I think now it's like if you try to meet somebody in real life, they're like, are you a stalker? Yes. And they're like, why are you talking to me? You're being weird. Yeah. So people don't know how to connect in real time anymore.

And I don't know. It just worries me. But then maybe that's just, I had to let go of that and just understand that the world has changed. Yeah, but everything is online now. It's a bummer. I did, I was out on like Saturday and I went to this one bar and then my other two friends were at a different bar that was like adjacent. And I was like, oh my God. And I popped in to say hi to them.

And as I was leaving this man, one of the ugliest men I've ever seen. Wow. Not to like face shame, but he was ugly. Wow, that's impressive to be one of the ugliest you've ever seen. One of the ugliest I have ever seen. And he was very nice. He was like, wow, your laugh is so beautiful. You're beautiful.

Where are you going? And I was like, I'm going next door. And then he took my hand and kissed it. And I was like, I don't want this. But I was like, wait, I love that this ugly man had the confidence. But then I was like, wait, what do I look like? Right. Can I even judge it?

Did I not look good that day? Right. But I just like the fact that he was like, I'm going to shoot my shot. Yeah, I always appreciate it because it's rare now. Yes. Particularly here. And L.A. people really don't know how to do it. No, they don't.

And I love New York. Yeah. Oh, people in New York, they just be talking. God bless you, ma. God bless you, ma. God bless you, how about you smile? I'm always like, okay. Okay.

I like smiling. I don't mind cat calling and I mean. Unless it's aggressive. Yes. If it's aggressive and you're scary, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't follow me. Don't follow me.

But if you want to say, I like your shirt, I go, thank you. I know. You're beautiful, ma. Thank you. Listen, I enjoy it. Give it to me. Make an old gal feel nice. See, that makes me feel good.

How long did you live in New York? I moved to New York in 97. Mm-hmm. And I still have a place there. So I go back and forth a bit. Lovely. I love that. I know.

I almost just said, Where? Don't tell these people. Don't tell. Where? We'll talk about that after. Okay. Do you have like a worst date story? I had a moment where I was trying to date a non-actor after my acting guy experience.

So I want a couple dates with the straits. Okay. I don't know. It's a different, but regular people. The civilians. Civilians. The normies. And so I was at the date with this guy with this guy.

And he was like, so, like, what do you mean you have to, like, be at rehearsal? Mm-hmm. And I was like, that's my job. My job. What do you mean you have to, like, make out with other men sometime? That's my... You've never seen a movie? Job.

And he was like, yeah, no. But thought we were going to just continue dating. Uh-huh. And I was like, you told me immediately that you don't approve... Oh, he was saying, no, you can't kiss me. people for your job? Yeah. He was like, nah.

Nah, I don't know anybody would be cool with that. I'm like, why are we here? Yeah, truly. You know what I do. That's wild. I'm totally, like,

in a Broadway show right now that you know I'm in. Right now, this is a Monday, this is my day off. Tomorrow, I'm back on stage. That's wild.

But he was like, yeah, I don't know anybody I'm cool with that. I was like, okay, so we're just going to get the check then? Yeah, I guess so. Like, why are we here? Yeah, where do you go from that? Well, because it amazes me how many men I've met feel like they can just dictate what my job is because I'm just doing it because I'm single.

I'm only able to do this because I'm single. But once I'm with the dude or we get married or something like that, I won't do that anymore. You won't do that anymore. I won't do the thing I love or my passion. I've dedicated my entire life to do. This might be too big of a question. But why? Why do men think that? Because they think that all women's goal is to be married with children. Or that's what our goals should be. Those, not all men are like that, but the ones who are. There are a huge chunk. They think that, well, your goal is, your life's work is second to marriage and children. And it should be. So once I come in and save you from having to work and doing something that I don't approve,

of. Then you'll do that anymore. Then you'll be ultimately happy. Then you'll be fulfilled and you'll fulfill your life's purpose, which is getting married and having children. That's just so wild. I can't, I couldn't imagine dating someone

and being like the thing you do professionally, you can't do parts of it. You can't do parts of it. Yeah, I mean, I know a lot of people who are like that. I know a lot of actors who are married to men who are like, no, you can't do a love scene. No, you can't do that. And they're like,

Okay. I'm like... That's wild. I think if it's like your own morality. Okay. Whatever. Yeah. But like your partner being like you can and cannot do a thing. Like that to me is so fucking weird. Yeah. I knew a couple who the dude was like, you can't go out of town to work. So we live here and you can only work here.

Well, good luck. Yeah. I mean, it worked for that. I mean, I'm not in their relationship. Whatever. They're together still. And I was like, huh, that's interesting. That, yeah, that's Whatever. You know, you can't do love scenes

And this is a couple that both of them are actors He's like, no, you can't do love scenes. I can, but you can't. That's not okay. That's wild. That's like Neo. Neo has a harem of women, I think three. They're not allowed to date anybody else, but he's allowed to go out and date whoever he wants.

In addition to the three. I believe so. Wow. And I'm like, how much coochie do you need? Yeah, there's that. And also, it's just. I don't know. There's these mentalities that believe that.

That that's how men are and that's how they're supposed to be. And it's natural for them to be that way and it's natural for women to allow their men. I don't know. Yeah. It's like they really believe that, well, biologically, women, if they're having children, you know, there's nine months of the year. They can't, you know, nine months of the year they're incubating the child. So you can only have one child, maybe two if you have a child. but men can just just spread their...

They could just have as many babies as they can and populate the earth. I don't know. I've heard this theory and I'm like, what are you talking about? Are we rebuilding society? Isn't it the apocalypse and all the babies have died? It is.

Up to two men to repopulate the earth? I don't know. But people believe it. Population to me is interesting because it's like, they're like, we need people to have babies. And I'm like, but why? But why? Do we actually need it?

None of us can afford a children. Yeah. It's fucking expensive to have a kid. And we have no support. No. My friend who lives in England was telling me about all the tests that are paid for by England. Yeah. Their health care is just, you know.

Imagine that. And I was like, that must be so nice. Caring for your population. But they just want a workforce, I think, here. They just want a dumb workforce so they could just have workers. Well. But also, they're trying to replace all the workers with AI. So I don't.

Girl, make it make sense. It is so wild. Do you want people to work? Or do you not want AI? Like, what do you want? Do you want factory workers? Because that makes sense. At least we have to have a workforce.

Yeah. Who's going to work if we don't have any people? Yeah. I understand it. But if you're trying to replace all the workers with automation and AI, then why do we need more people? We don't need more people. No, we don't. And I just heard that Amazon's,

going to do one hour delivery? And I was like, but who's going to do it? Why? But why? Who, like, why? Nobody needs anything in one. If you need something in an hour, you can go get it. You can go get it. You can drive to a store and go get it. Because sometimes when you're cooking and you're like, oh my God, I'm out of eggs. And the things already start. Instacart. Instacart. That's when you need something. Yeah, that's where you get a nice person who goes to the store, picks the worst apple you've The first apple, the rotten apple. And brings it to you and you go, great. I'm so glad.

That's the only thing I could think of that you would need within an hour, unless you're like bleeding out. Then go to the hospital. Then go to the hospital. I need a band-aid. You don't need anything from Amazon in one hour. You don't need that elf costume. Like, you don't need it. I know.

I know. You should have planned ahead for the elf party if we need the elf costume. Well, Tracy, we've come to the end. If we've come to the end? Yes. This has been delightful. It's been lovely. Thank you so much for doing this. Do you have anything you want to promote? Well, Devil Rush Prada 2 or Devil 2Rs Prada. Devil 2Rs Prada is in theaters now. We were number one this weekend.

It's such a fun movie. I've never been in a number one movie. Really? Yeah. Devil Whores Potter 1 was number 2. Oh. Superman Returns was number 1 that year. I was like, oh, this is the second. Oh, no. Actually, we were not number one. We were number 2. Well, congrats on the number one spot. That's so. It has nothing to do with me, but I'll take it. Yes, it does. I'm in it, but you know what I mean? I'm not the reason. Yeah, but no.

The way I've started thinking about things is not like, there I know, smile. No, I genuinely think it's like you were a part of that movie. And I think most of the people who saw it were like, oh, I love that Andy still has a friend. Yeah. Because it's like, what, was 20 years ago? Which is exactly 20 years.

Wild. It is wild. To be like this movie was 20 years. ago, it's just like, where's time going? But it's like, out of the friend group, you last it, which is, I think, a true thing that happens with people. Yeah. It's like you have a group, but then one person is your person. Right. If you remember in the first one, a fact that I even forgot in the scene where I'm telling her off, and people were mad at me for telling her off, she says, I've known, for the last 16 years, I've known everything about that, Andy, right?

This person, this glamazon, that's scogs around, whatever the whole. But I was like, right. We had already been friends for 16 years. So we were like in elementary school together. Yes. That's your ride or die. So that's my number one. I hold it down. We hold it down. And sometimes I'm going to tell you about yourself if you're changing or being weird or just not being true to yourself. Do you know what I mean? That's my job is the best friend to do that. So yeah. So I was very, I was happy to learn that we made it. Do you know what I didn't know? They kept saying there's a sequel. I was like, oh, that must be. Maybe I'll be in it. Maybe you'll want to call me up and ask me. Maybe I can go to the premiere, maybe. Maybe I can go to a screening or something. Maybe. And they were like, you made him.

Your scene with the guy that I mentioned earlier got like one of the biggest laughs in the theater. And then the other biggest laugh that was comparable was when Merrill Streep was hanging her own coat. Isn't that hilarious? She keeps talking about retiring. And I was like, not before you do a fully camp movie. I know. There's little glimpses of camp. That.

And then. when she got on the plane and she was looking wistfully, first class, I'm like, Merrill! She's so deeply funny. She's really funny. And I'm like, let her be funny. Let her be, like, she's funny in every little bit of her body. She's very funny and underutilized her.

I agree. Physical comedy has been underutilized, I think, her career. I mean, not that she needed it, but you know what I'm saying, but it's just extra doors to things that we didn't know we needed. Open the door, Merrill. Let us see it. Yes, let me see you open the door. Her hanging the coat and being exhausted.

Made me laugh so hard. I know. I saw somebody on Twitter today who I still call it Twitter. I refuse. Yeah, that's what it is. I was complaining about that moment. Like, no, she would never do that. But like, oh, you don't want, you don't believe in fun and whimsy.

Yeah. If you don't like that moment, you don't believe in fun and whimsy. You want a comedy to be serious. But also, for real. She's 75 years old. Yeah. A person who works at a company for, what, 20 years? For 18 of those years, somebody takes your coat.

And now you have to do it yourself. You hate it. And it's belaboring. And it's dramatic. And you hate it. So you're like, this is why I don't do it. Because it hurts my bet. Yes.

You make a thing out of it. Make a thing out of it. Just sigh. Oh, it's so hard. Yes. Life is so difficult. I, yeah. Also, I like your movie.

There's this like AI images that were not AI generated. Did you know this? Mm-mm. What? So there's like when the story breaks that they endorsed like a bad fast fashion company and people are making memes about Miranda, there's like AI generated memes, but the production did not do AI generated. They hired an artist to make the AI generated images.

Oh. And I thought that was just really fucking cool. That is cool. Because I was looking at them. I was like, these are really fucking funny. And then I saw on Twitter that like a human made them. And I was like, that's why they were funnier than if AI had actually made them. Yeah.

Wow. The more you know. Isn't that funny that I just told you a fact about your movie? My movie that I didn't know. Well, laity doll. And Meryl Streep's here to yell at you. Go on in Carol. Okay.

Here's a question I ask, all of my guests. Would you date me? Yes. When are we going out? Tuesday. Where are we going? Thank you so much for being here. You are truly a treat.

I think your voice is incredible. I think you're very talented actress. And I'm a very big fan. Thank you. Of course. And if you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me? You can like it. You can follow it.

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