Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Problematic Issues of Porn (w/ Erika Lust)

Episode Date: August 30, 2019

"I would like to see films where women's pleasure is also in focus. Where it's important to the story that she is also having a good time." Erotic film director, screenwriter, and producer Erika Lust discusses the science behind what arouses us, the problematic issue behind "teen porn", porn's worst stereotypes, and her favorite porn bloopers. Plus, Nicole shares her ultimate porn fantasy. Why Wont You Date Me listeners get a free week trial of XConfessions! Sign up today at: https://xconfessions.com/special-offer-nicole Check out Erika's Ted Talk: "It's Time for Porn to Change": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9LaQtfpP_8 You can play along and see Nicole's dating app profiles and photos on her Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/pg/NicoleByerComedy Be sure to rate Why Won't You Date Me 5-stars on Apple Podcasts. Leave a dirty comment for a chance to have it read on-air. Follow Nicole Byer: Tour Dates: nicolebyerwastaken.com/tourdates Twitter: @nicolebyer Instagram: @nicolebyer Facebook: www.facebook.com/nicolebyercomedy Buy Merch: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/nicole-byer?ref_id=9649

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why! Ooh baby, welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me? A podcast where me, Nicole Byer, tries to figure out how I'm still single even though you could leave a jar of mayonnaise on your bedside table and eat out of it every night.

And then after your fingers are all mayonnaise-ed up, you can finger me. Oh, no. Erica, I try to come up with a new, dumb reason every week, and I'm running so low on them. They're really hard to think of because after you said, I don't know, you said it 20 times it's it just gets to be insane so anyway okay my guest today i'm very excited okay her name is erica lust and

she is an acclaimed indie adult filmmaker who creates sex positive indie adult cinema that portrays sexuality intelligent no sexually intelligent narratives. You know what? Reading is sometimes very hard. You also have a TED Talk called It's Time for Porn to Change. And you have a website called X Confessions. It's the first crowdsourced erotic film series in history. That's fun.

That's lots of fun. X Confessions is an amazing project, actually. I love that it's crowdsourced yeah and it's people all around the world and they are sending in you know

their sex stories their fantasies kind of kinks things they want to do things they have done and then what I make is I make short films

out of all these sex stories I love it the one I was looking at that I was like ooh I'm gonna watch this later is was looking at that I was like, oh, I'm going to watch this

later is called I fucking love Ikea. And I assume it's about a couple fucking in an Ikea. Well, you know, I'm Swedish. So there's a background there. I do fucking love Ikea. And it was one of the actually one of the first confessions that entered to our site, you know. Actually, one of the first confessions that entered to our site, you know, and it's kind of a woman that likes her boyfriend to build furniture for her. And she likes when he's, you know, struggling with instructions and he's sweating. That turns her on. I love that. That is so cool, right? All these ideas of things turning on people that are so different from, you know, the regular kind of standard stereotypes and ideas that we see in mainstream regular porn. That idea specifically, I like so much.

And then the way you explained it, I like it even more because it feels more relationship based as opposed to like, someone to get off it's like well yeah i'll get off but like the way like a lot of times a couple has sex is like they do something very domestic and then they're like in their house doing things and they're like oh my god yeah totally you're bent over and and that's kind of yeah but those are the things that actually turns us on, you know. And I think that that is so interesting. And that's really what I'm trying to do with my films. I'm trying to show what turns us on. What's in our minds, you know.

Why are we attracted to other people or circumstances or situations? You know, what's happening there? I'm not only showing, you know, a couple on a sofa having sex. It's more to it, you know. I think porn is a lot more to it. Sometimes I like a story. A lot of times when I watch porn, I'll just skip to the sex because I'm like, this is very poorly acted and nobody really seems

like they're into it. So it's better when you're not talking. But I like your website because I think it's just more thoughtful. Yeah. And it makes me feel not, I don't want to ever say I'm ashamed when I watch porn. I'm never ashamed. But it makes me feel more okay that I'm watching. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, I do know what you mean. Not like, what am I trying to say? Sometimes I feel like I'm a voyeur and I'm like, I shouldn't be here. But with your stuff, I'm like, no, I should appear. And everybody's very happy that I'm here. But I also think it's a lot about the whole imagery, how we create beautiful, artistic, erotic images. You know, it's not just like anyone picking up a camera saying like,

hey, hey, let's film the girls. Let's see what's happening here. You know, that's not it. I mean, the way we are making film, it's like any, you know, indie film production company. You know, we are really thinking about the characters, the storylines, the scripts, the locations, the, you know, the light.

How are we gonna put this together? You know, like what, how do we wanna frame this movie or this scene? And it's all of that that comes together and that I think that is making, you know, the whole experience of it. How did you get into directing adult erotica? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's actually kind of a long story.

I don't mind. It goes way back, you know. It goes back to, I would say, to university. Okay. You know, I am Swedish. I was studying political science at university that was my main career political science political science is the way of understanding uh the power structures of the world i would say yeah it is oh okay it has i didn't go to real

college so i'm always like, what's that? Yeah, but it's politics, you know, it's the structures, it's understanding who is running the world and why and how they get there and how it all works. And I did study also gender studies in that, of course, that was a huge part of it. At the same time, I was a young adult, you know, growing up with all these feelings, sexual feelings, all these ideas, all these worries and these doubts about who am I? What do I like? What do I want? And I did turn to porn to kind of figure out a few things like many, many people do, you know. And when I watched porn, I think what happened to me kind of was that I had a feeling that my body did react

to what I was watching. You know, my body got turned on. I felt horny by looking at these images. looking at these images and I liked that feeling. I really did. But at the same time, I had this kind of criticism going on in my head, you know, saying, but what is happening here? Why is she only there to serve him? Why is all the women, you know, just there to kind of be the beautiful object, It's all the women, you know, just there to kind of be the beautiful objects, be the seductive person and kind of trying to bring the men to their sexuality, to their, you know, horniness, to their ejaculations, all of it, you know. But it felt to me that it had so little to do actually with our perspective, with living, you know, our sexuality as women. So I think that instead of just feeling kind of great with porn, I felt a little, you know,

complex with it. And I started to talk to my friends about it, you know. So I figured out that most of my male friends, they were totally fine with porn. They used porn. It was part of their life. They liked it. And most of my female friends had had quite similar experiences to mine. Some, of course, liked it.

I'm not going to say that all women are the same. We know that, you know. But there was definitely, you know, a feeling that many, many women had this conflict going on with porn. So then I started to kind of, as I was studying political science, you know, I was into this understanding of structures. So I started to analyze it, to try to deconstruct it, to try to understand it. And I kind of broke it down, mainly because of a book I found by a film professor at Berkeley University called Linda Williams. She had written this

wonderful book. And when I read the book, I realized that porn is not just porn, that it is actually a discourse about sexuality. It's, you know, telling us something about sexuality and about how we interact with each other sexually. And then it became clear to me that most of the people who are actually making the porn that we are watching as a society, most of them are men. Yes. And most of them are, you know, kind of similar to each other.

I would agree. There's a little group of men that are kind of into, you know, boobs and ass and cars and scars and they're like, ha-ha, rah-rah. That kind of sexuality. But it's not actually, you know, a diverse group of people from different backgrounds and sexualities and identities and countries and, you know, all of it. That's not really happening. So what we are seeing in what we, you know, kind of call mainstream porn, what we are seeing is their vision of sexuality you are

correct and it's interesting because i speak to a lot of men who like what a lot of ladies like they're like i like a man who looks like me who has sex like me and there isn't that much porn out there for me like that and i was like how interesting that men they're like a lot of men like porn from a female perspective totally and I think that's why a lot of men are like I like watching lesbians and I'm like yeah probably because women are softer with each other right they're not always choking each other and uh I don't like that blowjob where they, like, hold a woman on the head like that. The forced blowjob that they do sometimes even until a woman vomits. And, I mean, this is—oh, I get so tired sometimes when I'm talking about porn. I wish the listeners could see you.

You're, like, getting so worked up. But it's like, you know, the problem is that I do love porn. But it's like, you know, the problem is that I do love porn. I think porn is fantastic and that it has a great potential and that it can really bring lots to us. But at the same time, the reality, I mean, most people, if they go out on the Internet, which they do and they porn surf, they end up at all these kind of tube sites, you know, where they are showing free porn, which is not really free porn because actually it's stolen porn, you know, but it's called free porn. I have a question about that.

So there's ads that run. So are these people not being paid through the ads? Or is it very little? It's a complicated structure because actually these companies, basically it's one big company. It's one big company owning most of these free tube sites. You don't know it because you think that you see many different brands. That's like Nestle owns so many more companies than we think. They own L'Oreal and I just learned that.

Totally. It's crazy. This is big conglomerates. And I just learned that. Totally. It's crazy. This is big conglomerates. This is big food, big pharma, big fashion, and big porn.

You know, surprise. But that's how it is. That is, honestly, I didn't know that. And that's kind of wild. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of wild. But then what we have to really understand is that, so what they are interested in is obviously not showing, you know, the best possible diverse sexuality that's out there in the world. That's not what they are after.

They are after traffic. Because if they have lots of traffic, they can sell advertising. What kind of advertisement are they selling? Well, mostly, you know, grow your dick pills. Yeah, make your titties bigger. Make your butt juicier.

And I'm like, I've never wanted any of this stuff. Or fuck a slutty Latina in your neighborhood. But that's the kind of ads that they are selling. And the thing is that people believe it. They do believe it. So all these kind of lonely guys having very sad sex lives, they are on these sites

and they think that maybe these dick pills would be a great idea. So they do fill in their credit card details. And then when the pills arrive and they don't work, they don't go to the police. Nope. They just stew angrily in their basement.

They're like, let me watch another forced blowjob video. Exactly. And they're opening window after window after window. And it's just like, you know, these sex machines going on, on, on, on, on, on, on. And it's so much. I mean, what frustrates me is the language that I see on all these sites. Of course, the images, you know, all the kind of women serving men. That frustrates me.

But also the language that they are using, you know. It's a very misogynistic, racist language. It really is. Because I don't like on these sites that black specific porn is called ebony porn. Ebony. But Asian, Latina, you know, we are all getting divided. It is.

All but white folks. Yes. Because that's like. Oh my God, Erica. Yeah. Oh my God, you're really fucking breaking it down. It's making me angry. Because white people don't have a category

where it's like white angels. Because we are supposed to be dead yeah that's the norm right so like when you get like bbw porn it's just like white people and then you have to like do a subset like so i like to watch porn where the woman looks like me yeah so i'll have to search for like black bbw fucks whatever i want to see my God. And it's so interesting that like, that's just not like, there isn't just like a fat black woman in bondage. And like, it's,

you have to like search those specific things to find that. That's Erica. No, but it's, it's, it's, I mean, it's funny because I understand that in life,

that white is the norm and the standard. And I truly, it never occurred to me that white is the standard in porn and then everybody else is compartmentalized into like a fetish subset exactly that is so interesting but it happens with other categories also you know it's also with the teens and the milfs and it's like the teens bug me out like that's so wild it's it's that men want to watch another man look at a small woman who looks young and who might even be. No, no, they are not. They are not.

It's important to know that they are not because if they would be, that's a whole different matter. That's super illegal. So most, you know, companies out there, they are very, very careful with the age of the people. So even if they make these girls look like they were 14 or 16, you know. Companies out there, they are very, very careful with the age of the people. So even if they make these girls look like they were 14 or 16, you know, they are not. All of them are 18 and they have paperwork on it. But I feel like you shouldn't even serve that fantasy. No, no, no, no, no. You know?

Like, I feel like that's, like, an ethical thing. I do agree with you. I do agree with you. We shouldn't perpetuate men having sex with children. And especially all these categories of, like, tiny teens getting destroyed. Yes! That's the language that you find, you know? Everything is about kind of punish fucking women from one reason or another, you know?

It's about destroying us. It's about nailing, smashing, banging, you know, punishing. Yeah, and— It's worse, like, the sex-pos-huh banging you know punishing yeah it's worse like the sex positive language you know women are always called whores or sluts or like nasty little trick gets hers and you're like what why isn't there ever just like slutty man gets railed never that even in gay porn i feel like it's a little bit no it's not the kind of language it's not no it's just like maybe like asshole gets destroyed but it's like we're literally talking about someone's butt and not like their personality but like women just have this

like these words yes we are getting objectified that's what's happening and that's why i think it's so important that we talk about this you you know, that we talk about it, that we criticize it openly so other people will realize what is going on. Because I, you know, when I talk about this, then I always have men sending me emails saying, Erica, my God, I listened to a talk you did and now you kind of destroyed porn for me. You know, I was all good out there looking at all these films. Now I'm just seeing like the these films. Good. And now I'm just seeing like the bad shit all the time. Good.

They should. They should. People, I've lately been like, I need to watch more ethical porn. I need to like pay for my porn so people get paid.

Exactly. And I think people are like, otherwise how are you going to make it? Because for a long time I was like, well, why would I pay for porn? But then you have to think

about all the people involved and you're like, oh. But it's because we devaluated it, you know. If you don't pay for it, you don't give it value. And then you think that it's just trash anyways, you know. And that's a pity because porn can actually be fantastic. And I think it can be a great source in a healthy sex life. I think that it can help us to, you know, to find inspiration, to open up our sexuality, to think outside the box of, you know, who maybe we are supposed to be.

Because most people, you know, they feel that they are supposed to be this person. But then, actually, they want to do some other things outside those kind of rules. And I think not paying for porn or erotica, whatever you'd like to call it, I think it also really reinforces the like watching porn is bad, watching porn is dirty, you have to do it in your little corner and don't tell anyone about it. And it's like, well, if we all just talked more openly about sex and your desires and how consent is a real thing that we need to talk about, I feel like if we just talked

more about it, then watching, you know, adult films would be destigmatized and we would feel better about sex in this country. This country is so repressed when it comes to sex. It is so incredible. I have a feeling that it is, yeah. It is so wild. It's sad to see it, but I think it has a lot to do with sex education. The lack of sex education, let's say.

I got barely any. We had like two days of sex ed where they were like, here's the female reproductive system. I'm not going to tell you anything about it. Biology, basically, right? Other than you get a period and the baby grows in there. And then here's a penis and sometimes it gets hard and we're going to all have fun now.

Bye-bye. That was like it. You didn't even get to put a condom on a banana. No, no. Or a carotid or whatever. No, my school pretended that nobody was ever going to fuck and that we just needed to know that we all have different parts. Yeah.

And that was it. Go live your lives. It was so, it's so crazy. Yeah, it makes me angry. It makes me very, very angry. I think that what we need is some kind of, you know, little army of sex educators out there telling young people about sex, you know, in a sincere and open way without shaming, without, you know, without scaring people, because that's another thing that they do a lot, you know, it's like, oh, they're like, don't have sex.

And it's like, oh, but why? Why? And can we and can we please talk about why we want to have sex? Because actually, we are sexual human beings. You know, we are here on this earth. I'm working here because some people had sex. My parents, you know. Most of us, you know, we are not made in a laboratory.

We are actually made in the act of sex. It's funny to think that sex is like such like, it's like a taboo thing that you're like, we shouldn't talk about it. We have to whisper about it. But it's like your parents fucked thing that you're like we shouldn't talk about it we have to whisper about it but it's like your parents fucked they fucked to get you and more than once or twice or three times or how many sisters or brothers you have you know yes I got that question from my from my kids a little while ago you know they were talking about I have two daughters they are eight and eleven and at one point they kind of asked me, they're like, so mom, so you and dad, you had sex twice? And I went like, no, I took the opportunity because that's what I think that we should do.

You know, if you are an informed parent and you are a sex positive parent, then you need to take this opportunity. So suddenly when they ask you this kind of questions, because most of the kids, they do ask this question. What happens is so many parents say like, I don't want to answer and they turn around, you know, and they... Which is so crazy to me. Like, I think I've told the story on the podcast before, but when I, I think I was in like maybe first grade or second grade.

So I was like six or seven. I found a book called Our Bodies, Ourselves ourselves and then there was a chapter in it about sex and then I was like my daddy did what to my mother so I like brought the book to my mother and I was like did daddy do this to you and she was like yes and I was like why she was like because you know sex is a thing that two adults can enjoy and that's how you have a baby. And I fully was like, I can't believe he put something of his inside of you, and I'm very upset about it. I remember being very upset about the whole thought about it. But there's, again, that's the perspective. But she explained it to me, and she was like, no, it's good, and it's okay, but you always have to, like, ask if you can put it in somebody.

And, you know, and you can enjoy it. And I was like, okay. That's a wonderful mom you have there, you know. Thanks for that. Because I was thinking it's also interesting with the perspective. Because this book somehow made you think that sex is something that men do to women. Yes. Absolutely.

That's what that book made me think. Also, you know, you get taught as a little kid, you're like, you have your private parts and they have their private parts. And it's like, maybe we shouldn't call genitalia private. Private part. Maybe we should call it just genitalia. Vaginas. Yes. Vulvas.

Yes. Penises. Come on, try those words, you know. Call them what they are. Say them out loud. Yes. And then just say, you know, the reason why we cover them is because that's our society. But it's okay to touch

them. So like when I was nannying, this little boy would always like grab his penis when I was like changing his, like giving him a bath or like whatever. And I would always be like, hey little buddy, I get it. You want to feel it and stuff. But, like, when we go outside, you can't do that because people won't like it.

But, like, here, it's okay. Also, you know, we're not family. But, like, you can do it. I didn't know how to deal with it, but I also didn't want to shame him. Because it is difficult. It is difficult. Because how do you tell them, you know, you do. And I think that's the key.

You don't want to shame them. So you should never, ever say like, don't do that. Don't touch yourself. And especially not to young girls. Because I feel that people are more open with boys touching their small penises. Because people get to say boys will be boys. And they are doing that. But then when a woman, when a little girl does it, then everybody goes like, don't do that. And I think that best thing is to say, like, you know, that feels nice.

That is something that, you know, is great. It gives you pleasure. But it's better not to do it, you know, around other people. Maybe you shouldn't do it with grandma in the living room you know go to your room and you know and explore your bed explore and tell me you know if you have doubts etc but that i think that would really help little girls i think so to fuck your body and to see it as something acceptable. Because self-love is the first way of getting to know our own bodies. So important.

And I think I've been pretty okay with my sexuality because my mother was, I don't think she meant to be sex positive, but she was pretty sex positive. So I remember when I was little, we would take baths and I would just root around in my vagina. And she'd be like, well, I mean, it's yours. So like if some, you don't really let anybody else touch it unless you tell them it's okay. And I'm like, let someone else touch it. In my brain, I was like, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. But then you grow up and you're like, oh, okay.

I understand what that lesson is. Right, right. But it's also important so kids understand integrity, right? So they know, and especially they are talking so much about it's important that they have the right wording so they can actually, you know, if something happens, so they can actually connect and talk to adult people around them, you know? I think it's super important.

Okay, we have to take a break. I think it's super important. Okay, we have to take a break. And we're back. Okay, Erika, I have questions for you. So you are married. I'm married, yes. How long have you been married?

Only for three years, actually. Oh, okay. Yeah, but I have been together with my partner for 19 years. Dang! Yeah, it's a long time. That is such a long time. I know, it's crazy. So, oh my God, 19 years. Yeah, we met when I was 23, so I'm already 42, if you do the numbers. And he's seven years older than I am.

How did you guys meet? We met in Barcelona. Okay. Because I moved down to Barcelona many years ago from Sweden. Are you fluent in Spanish? I am. Yes, you have to be. CCC, you have a copy.

That would be insane if you were like, I refuse to learn. No, we normally talk Spanish in our family. Do you speak Spanish with a Swedish accent? I do, of course. The same way as I'm speaking English with a Swedish accent. It's so funny to me. Like, Americans, we're very dumb. But, like, it never occurs to me that when I'm speaking Spanish, I have a very bad American accent when I'm speaking it.

And I'm like, oh, my God, it must sound so awful. But if you learn the language as an adult, you will always have your accent with you. It's part of who you are. But I love accents. I think they are really, really cute. You know, I love it. But I do feel bad. I speak Spanish very little know? I love it. But I do feel bad. I speak Spanish very little, but, like, I love it.

And I just don't have the time to, I guess I could just do, like, dual lingo or something. Like, an app on my phone. And it's a sexy language, isn't it? I love it. It's like, it's hot somehow. Hola, hola. Come with us. Should we continue in Spanish? Oh, my God. That would be difficult if we continue in Spanish?

Oh, my God. That would be difficult if we continued in Spanish. Oh, my God. If we continued in Spanish, I would literally be able to say my one little phrase, which is, Hola, mi amico. Yo hablo espanol un poquito, but yo trabajo muy mucho, but muy mal. But me encanta espanol. A mi encanta.

It's just me being like oh I'm Spanish it's bad but I love it so wait how did you guys meet? how did we meet? well we met in Barcelona my

his name is Pablo he's from Buenos Aires originally so he's Argentine how do you say in English? Argentinian Argentinian and we met in Barcelona in a bar.

Okay. A very hot night. It was the night between the 6th and the 7th of July of the year 2000. And that night I had actually, I had dressed in a red dress. And normally I don't wear that many dresses. I'm more kind of a jeans and t-shirt girl but that night I had my sister in town and she had said like come on put on this dress you look great in this dress and then we went to a small little at that time smoky bar in Barcelona

called Benny Dorm and and the bar was also kind of reddish. And suddenly this man walked in and he was wearing a shirt with exactly the same color as my dress. So I walked up to him and I'm like, hey, we are wearing the same color. And that's kind of how it happened. We started to talk. so cute also so simple but I I found you know really that it's kind of one of the things I do quite a lot is complimenting on men I like to do that and they really enjoy it you know because they are not so used to having people saying you know nice things to them so this is one of the things I do you know, because they are not so used to having people saying, you know, nice things to them.

So this is one of the things I do, you know, I woke up to them and I go, oh my God, I love your shoes. I love your shirt. I love your haircuts. I don't know. You know. Good advice. Good advice.

I guess I've just heard a lot of people go, you got to neg. You have to say something negative to a man. And that gets their attention. heard a lot of people go you gotta neg you have to say something negative to a man and like that gets their attention uh truly i have not thought of saying a kind thing to a man in a long time truly i'm like my mind is blown i'm like oh all i have to say is, hello, you look nice. Totally. And then a man might be like, wow. Try it. She's being nice. Do an experiment.

Go out tonight and just try it. You know, throw great positive comments out there and see how they react. I think, yeah, I think the next time I go out, that's what I'm going to do. Because the last dude I was flirting with, or maybe I was flirting with, I don't know. His friend recognized me from this tv show I'm on and he was like are you Nicole Byer and I was like yes and then he was like oh I don't I didn't know my friend knew who you were I don't really watch tv I read books and I was like oh okay what books do you read and then he said an author that I didn't know and I

was like oh what do you like about that author and And he goes, I just really love how when I'm reading it, I can picture it in my head because the words are telling me a story. And I was like, that's a book. That's a book. That's, you just like, a book describes a story. Like, it's a book. And then he was like, oh, uh, uh.

And then I was like, ah, that was too mean to tell this man that he doesn't. It's whenever someone was like, ah, that was too mean to tell this man that he doesn't. It's whenever someone is like, ma'am, books take you to another place. I'm like, yeah, that's a book. I guess I could have been nicer, just been like, ooh, yes, books. We didn't fuck. We didn't fuck. Before Pablo, did you have a lot of monogamous relationships?

Because 19 years is such a long time. It is. Are you a serial monogamist? Or did you have like a smattering of relationships? No, we are in a monogamous relationship. Before Pablo, I tried a few different formulas some worked better than others but it's I think also that you know when you are when you are young I do think it's important to try and to be with different people and to see you know how it works out for you. But it's like, I don't know, when I met him, we really, really clicked. But he was definitely not the first, you know.

And then you started directing erotic films after you met him? After meeting him, yeah. So is he involved? He's involved. He's involved. I started, I made my first short film kind of myself. But then when it became a success and I saw the opportunity of creating a production company and starting to make, you know, more content, then he decided to get involved together with

me and we kind of, you know, co-founded like the company together. And we are still working together. Sometimes it's challenging. Sometimes it's challenging. Sometimes it's difficult. I'm not going to tell you that it's not. I mean, 19 years, you know, it's a long time. So there have been ups and downs, you know. The road sometimes is bumpy, but we had so much fun.

And we really, I think we really, really complement complement each other I think that's one of the things that makes it work that we are different yeah but we we connect you know in that way of just like oh my god you know I I I know that I want to be with him you know I just know it I had a friend the other day uh being like in a relationship and and and saying that she felt she had she felt so much doubt about the relationship she was in and I couldn't you know I couldn't keep quiet I just had to tell her I'm like I think that if you feel that much doubt it's probably not the best relationship I think you're right a friend of mine once said you don't have to do very much work in a good relationship and what he meant was

like the mind games like you don't have to like constantly think is this does he like me like me is it going well or whatever it's like you kind of just know you know that it's going well you know that this person going well you know that this person is for you and then the work comes into like communicating the work comes into communicating and the work comes into I mean we do actually we do lots of dating we go out together you know we dance together we we we travel together we and and, you know, as we have two daughters, it's been challenging when they were, you know, babies and growing up. And, you know, as a woman also, you go through so much change, you know, with your body and with your emotions and becoming a mother and trying to, you know, reconnect with your sexuality again. Because suddenly you are this different

person somehow and what I what I felt worked very very good for us was when we did kind of staycations like staying in a hotel in our own city without having to use the time to travel to another place etc but like booking a, going out and not feeling like, you know, because I always felt that when I was in my own home, when they were small, now not that much because now it's easier, you know, but when they were small, I kind of felt that I was always the mother there and that I needed to step out of the role as the mother and become like the erotic myself somehow and if we went out and we kind of you know met up in a bar and we had a glass of wine and you know we could reconnect

and we could find that space for ourselves again I like that I like that you take the time to be with each other without your kids yeah because I feel like a lot of times people overwhelm themselves with like we have to spend as much time together with the kids as possible it's like well if you do that then like where's the breathing room yeah it's not gonna work if you do that I did that that is I mean I've seen it I've seen it with friends I've seen it I've I've really seen how relationships have you know just got broken because they didn't take the time to maintain the relationship and that's that's it I mean it's the same with with your friends for example imagine if you all the time would say to your best friend

like hey no but we can hang out but I'm gonna come with my kids you're not gonna gonna be able to have the same conversations. I mean, that's a great exercise, right? And it's the same with your husband. I mean, I'm not having the same conversation with him when I'm around my kids. As if we go out and we can be adults, you know? My best friend who lives in Portland has a kid, Tessie.

And Tessie, I love her dearly. And I love her kid dearly. But she does this wonderful thing where she'll be like, all right, you're here for two days. She'll be here for a day. And then I'm going to send her to her friend's house and she can have a sleepover so we can have a night. And I'm always like, what a treat.

Thank you. Because I love being around her child. Her child is great. I love her. And I also love my friend. And I cherish her and I also love my friend and I cherish that time I have with my friend because I don't get to see her often and I just like appreciate when people are like yes I love my kids my kids are my world but like they can go away for a little bit so I can have adult time of course and also your kids need to make other relationships

it's not you are not the only person they need in their lives so they need to be with their grandparents and with their friends and maybe with you know your sister or of course but mostly they need to be away from me because i don't like children i like three children in this world actually four i just met a set of twins that are, my friend Michelle has twins that are so cute. They're six months old and I love a baby. They just smell so good. They do. They do.

Okay, Erica, can you tell me about Lust Cinemas? Lust Cinema. Lust Cinema is actually a cinema that I started online a while ago. that I started online a while ago. It's a membership site kind of where we have during years been premiering my films, but also licensed content. But now we decided a little while ago that we are starting to produce

more original content and it's content that is plot driven uh it's adult of course so people are having explicit sex but they are actually films or serious so they are not it's not kind of the the stupid cartoonish porn i have a pizza i didn't order a pizza but and I don't have any money but you know if I take this

towel off I can't pay with my body that's not the kind of films we're making you know we are making films with real characters

we are giving them time to develop and to see like how they connect and their attraction to each other and i think that we are we are premiering these new films from september but i really think that you are gonna see the difference you know you're gonna feel the

difference this is the the netflix feel but with adult cinema. I love that. Yeah. Adult cinema and chill. Adult cinema and... So we've already talked about porn stereotypes, but what do you think the worst stereotypes that people need to stop believing when it comes to porn? Worst stereotypes? I mean, I think worst is the female bimbo, kind of. worst stereotypes that people need to stop believing when it comes to porn worst stereotypes

i mean i think worst is the female bimbo kind of and the masculine penetrative sex machine those are the worst ones right it's like please humanize us make us real you know see us for who we are don't divide us by you know all these uh different categories yes exactly just let us be people and meet each other on you know equal grounds that's kind of what i would like and i would like to see you know films where where where women's pleasure also is in focus, where it's important to the story that she's actually having a good time. And I think that one of the best ways of doing that is actually, you know, already from the casting process. Of course, it's the script and how you develop the characters. But then what is crucial to me is the casting process. how you develop the characters.

But then what is crucial to me is the casting process. It's getting to know the performers that I work with, taking time to get to know them, you know. If I'm not in the same city, we do a Skype meeting, but maybe we meet for an hour online, you know, and we take time to get to know each other. I try to figure out who they are, what they like, who are they sexually, who are they attracted to? Who are their favorite co-workers?

Because they all have, you know, they have a list of people that they go like, oh, I love to work with this person and this person and this person. And then some of them have no lists, you know, with people like these people I work with. I would never want to work with them again. And if I can find people, you know, having this chemistry already, being attracted to each other, that's when I get to make a wonderful film, you know. I truly love that. And I feel like porn and sex work truly gets left behind when we talk about, like, Me Too, when we talk about, like, Equal pay, when we talk about feminism in general,

people don't realize that there's feminism and then there's intersex feminism, which includes women of color, sex workers, trans women, all women, as opposed to just this, I'll say white feminism. Academic, the kind of university white feminist. Like a white feminist is like well i'm a minority and i'm like well actually you're not like i believe it's like 50 50 in the united

states no but i i think we need to bring everybody in this i mean this did and and especially when we are talking about about sex work you know it's so important to understand that sex work is actually work. Yes, it is. It's work and people pay for it. So if there's a transaction involved that you're employed, I don't understand why sex work in this country isn't... I think sex workers here want it decriminalized, not legalized. They want it decriminalized, not legalized. They want it decriminalized, right?

I think so. And it's a very complicated thing to try to understand. But I'm like, but like, why can't, say I want to be a sex worker. I would like to have sex with people and have them pay me. I don't understand why I can't incorporate myself. I'm my sole employee. I pay me. I don't understand why I can't incorporate myself. I'm my sole employee. I pay taxes. And I can

log who these people are, you know, so I can keep a paper trail. So if I go missing, we know where I was last. I don't know why this is what it should be like. It's so insane because I'm an actor, so I was last. Exactly. I don't know why. This is what it should be like.

It's so insane because I'm like, I'm an actor, so I'm incorporated. I'm the sole proprietor of my company. I'm the only employee. And then when I work on a project, they become, it's like a business exchange where they're going to give me money for services and then I can go do my taxes and go to, and I'm like, don't you understand that like there's so much money in sex work like the government just from like a purely political money standpoint y'all love money right legalize sex work or decriminalize it and then tax it but i think bottomly it's a it's a

way of controlling women and controlling women's bodies and controlling one of the first ways we were actually able to earn money because prostitution, we all know, you know. It is the oldest, it's the oldest job. And it was one of the only possibilities for women, you know, in a world where a woman was, you know, was nothing. where a woman was, you know, was nothing. That had absolutely no value. And she was a property of, you know, her father or her husband or whatever. And the only way a woman could actually, you know, earn some money for herself was through sex work. Yep.

So I think that we have a power problem there. I think that there are very powerful people, men, of course, not wanting women to have a power problem there. I think that there are very powerful people, men, of course, not wanting women to have that power, not wanting women to be able to get along with their lives and earn money.

And that's very problematic. It's so problematic. And I guess there is something scary about an empowered woman who doesn't need a man. Cher has an iconic quote where Cher is being interviewed and she said that her mom was like Cher you need to marry a rich man and she goes mother I am my own rich man and I was like oh yes oh I love it oh I love it so much

this is important it's important for women to start earning money and not to be afraid of earning money. Because that's also part of feminism. Going on out there, there's a small part of feminism, like feeling that earning money is dangerous somehow. And I think that in this world where we're living now, where evidently money is very important. If we want power, we're going to need to earn the is very important if we want power we're gonna you gotta get some money i have no i guess like when i was younger i would be like when i was younger i worked at lane bryant in new york city and they paid me seven dollars and fifty cents and that was in like 2005,

which isn't like that long ago. What? And it was still very expensive to live in New York City before they raised minimum wage. And I kept lamenting. I was like, maybe I should ask for a raise. I don't know. I don't want them to be mad at me. And now I'm like, Nicole.

Yes. $7.50, and you thought they were going to be mad at you? So then when I did finally ask for a raise, they gave me like a dollar, but I was like, I did it. But now, now anytime someone gives me like a starting offer, I'm like, oh, okay, go back and ask for twice that amount. Because what happens is either they give it to me or we settle somewhere more than what they offered.

Exactly. And I feel like more women especially. Negotiation skills. Yes. We need that. We should not be afraid to say, oh, I know my worth and my worth is more than this. Like there was an article going around that said how much Elizabeth Warren charged for her legal services. And people were like, isn't that insane?

And I'm like, no, she's a good lawyer. And that's what she believes she's worth. And then there was like another article that was like, actually, this is on the low end of what she can charge. And I was like, good Lord. It's so mind boggling to me when people see a woman making money. They're like, oh, like Kim Kardashian makes a ton of money.'re like oh like kim kardashian makes a ton of money and people love to say she doesn't do anything and i'm like she doesn't do anything

are you sure because people watch her in real time and then watch a show that recaps her life a year later you're watching the same thing if that's not talent i don't know what is right right she's enthralling. She's captivating. And she's very open about her sexuality. Sometimes she's like, you know, shames other people. She does things that I'm not like okay with. But like, I like that she takes pictures naked. But also, I mean, you have

to be able to make a mistake also. We can't like be in this game thinking that we're going to do everything right. I think that's a problem also for many women, you know. They are so exigent with themselves and they going to do everything right. I think that's a problem also for many women. They are so exigent with themselves and they want to do everything the best possible way. So sometimes they are even afraid of talking up because we are being shamed all the time.

You know, slut-shamed and shamed for being working mothers. There's shame in everything we do. So sometimes it's go yourself. Yeah, go fuck yourself, truly. Yeah, because it's like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. It will always be a lady's fault because she did X, Y, and Z.

It's so peculiar to me. And if you do something wrong, you know, go out there, say sorry. Yes, there's no problem. Just say oopsie. oops oops i'm sorry i but it's better to try than to stay at home thinking that you're not good enough you know i made a mistake once i was on a show where there was people calling in and asking for advice and i offended this this person who called in for advice.

And sometimes on these shows, they'll like have a PA call in or like a friend of the producer, but this actually was a person in the world. And I didn't realize that. And I was like a little harsh and it was like trying to be like comedy coming from like a very, like I have my opinion,

but I like kind of amped it up a little bit for like the comedy of it and then this person tweeted at me and was like I have never felt so like like you hurt my feelings blippity blah like I hate you I was like oh my god oh no so then I like apologized on Twitter and it wasn't like it was like sorry if you felt that way which is not a real apology so then I like thought about it and I was like well if someone spoke to me the way that I spoke to this this person I would be upset too so then I like wrote them a very long apology and they accepted it and I was like okay well yes that didn't that didn't take anything away from me to

say hey I was very wrong and I shouldn't have spoken to you like that. I was trying to make a joke and I fully understand that it was not funny to you. And in the grand scheme of things, wasn't that funny in general? I made a mistake and I'm sorry. And the person was very appreciative. And it truly, it took nothing away from me. But I think if we can start accepting that way of working, the world will be better. Because that's a little of a problem right now, right?

With people starting to also to bully a little too much on Twitter. And it gets kind of harsh and ugly. And sometimes it's just, you know, take a step back. Think about what did you say like that old thing that's like uh how would you feel someone said it to you and it's like bad it's like then don't say it yeah or if you don't have anything nice don't say anything at all like i'm uh lately i've just been trying to be like okay think before you speak a little bit. But then when someone does make me angry, I'm like, oh, oh, I'll tell you why I'm angry. But like, I take a minute to be like,

okay, let's be nice about this. Like, I just did shows in Rochester, New York, and I host a show called Nailed It on Netflix, and people like to scream it at me because people do this to comedians for a reason that I'll never understand that like people see you on TV and then just want to like shout the thing you did on TV at you in person. And I've never understood why.

But like Dave Chappelle on his show, he said, I'm rich, bitch. So people started screaming that at him at shows. And so I like I asked them not to say nailed it. Up top, I let them scream it at me like six or seven times. And then I'm like, we're all done. And we're bored. We hate it. And everyone's like, yes.

So then during the show, someone was like, nailed it. And I was like, OK, who are you? And then they were quiet. And I was like, I'm not going to make fun of you. I genuinely just want to know why you said it after I asked you not to. I just want to have like a dialogue because I'm trying to actually understand why this is happening over and over and over again. And they didn't they didn't respond. So then during the meet and greet after this person comes up to me and goes, it was me who screamed nailed it.

And I was like, oh, I don't know why you think I'd like to know that now. I asked you during the show why you said and you said nothing. And they said, well, I was embarrassed after I said it. And I was like, as you should have been. I asked you not to say it. How disrespectful are you? And they were like, oh, well, can you smile for this picture? And I was like, absolutely not. I won't smile anywhere near you. I don't like you. I think you are so rude. And I will tell you this. If you ever go to another live show again, do not do that because the comedian who's on stage has spent months, months preparing this material for you to just ruin and scream at them.

And they were like, I'm really sorry. And I was like, I reject your apology. I reject your apology. It's just like, I don't want to. I will never be happy with you. But have a wonderful night. And I really hope you find joy somewhere. And I, afterwards, I was like, was I too harsh?

And I was like, no. No, but there's also some people, you know, if you can't reach them yeah if you tried you couldn't reach this person I was like if they don't like me after this I'm okay with it fully okay I just hope the next time they go out into the world and see a show they don't yell at the performer and if that happens I did my job one less fan but I did something good for somebody else but there's probably always people in in the audience wanting to try to be funnier than the comedian right yeah this weekend we had Elise, Sam, her whole table, J-dubs and Matt in overalls who I hate

I remember all of them. I don't remember what I ate last night, but I remember people who scream at me during shows. Cause I'm always like, what is your name? I'll remember you forever. It's like the list, the list that the girl had.

Game of Thrones. You know, you go, my kill list. I'm my kill list. You are my enemies. If I encounter you again, I hate you. Ooh, are there any porn bloopers?

This is a fun question. Like, during shooting, what is, like, a silly thing that has happened during sex? Well, many. It's like, come on. Like, this is, like, real life, you know? There's lots of silly things happening all the time, you know, stupid noises or stupid noises, natural noises just coming out, you know, but maybe it will not work that well in a movie. But actually, last time I had a funny story with a bed that broke. That's kind of a situation that we didn't expect. This actor started to jump in the bed.

That was not part of the plan, but it took care of him and the bed broke. Yeah. An hour later, we had a new bed coming in. Oh, wow. That's very quick. very quick yes oh i love the efficiency that is so funny that the bed broke my favorite porn blooper that i have ever seen in my life this woman had a prolapsed anus and she was having anal sex and i guess he pulled out a little too far and her butt fell out. It was from his point of view. And you just heard her go, I don't know. My asshole fell out.

It's just. Oh, my God. It was just the way she said it was so funny to me. It was like the least sexy thing I've ever heard in my life. It made me laugh so hard. Oh, no. My asshole fell out. Yeah. Things can no. My asshole fell out. Yep.

Things can happen. Yes. Assholes can fall out. They can fall right out. Yeah, it just really made me laugh. Okay. So, Erica, you've been in a relationship for 19 years. 19.

What advice, other than complimenting men, which I think I think I'm gonna take do you have for me in order to find a partner oh uh oh oh oh what other advice might I don't know I mean it's it is hard I guess you know it's like I haven't been out that way lately so I'm not I don't really know how the world works today oh yeah 19 years you've missed the apps I missed I totally missed apps okay I've been looking at at how it works more or less with a friend of mine so I I have some notions some ideas but I don't know I I'm i'm maybe i'm very old school but i think like meeting meeting someone in real life i mean bars come on kind of or or you could do uh do an activity i don't know i don't have time to do an activity. I have four podcasts and...

Are you never dating anyone from the audience? They're never like a situation where you see someone in the audience and you're like, oh, this. Absolutely not. No? I've tried to fuck audience members and it truly just doesn't work in my favor. I call them chuckle fuckers. It's not a term that I coined. What does that mean?

It means, it's usually a lady, a lady who will fuck any old comedian just because they're funny. Okay. So they'll go see a show and they're like,

oh my God, he looks like a dumpster but he made me laugh. I'm gonna try to have sex with him. So male comics truly have the best time on the road. Female comics, on the other hand, I've never had a man be like, you are so funny and I would love to ravish you tonight.

That's never happened. That never happened. Maybe like one time. But that person was a little strange to me. Oh, no. So during one of my shows, this guy was like, I'll fuck you. And I was like, OK. But then he ended up being gay.

It was very strange. It went too far. And I was like, what is happening? It was insane. I've only had strange encounters with people on the road. And I guess that's my cross to bear. So how do you normally date? The apps.

Mostly the apps. I recently met someone in person that I went on a date with, but we've been just both so busy that, like, our schedules haven't aligned for us to go out again. But I'm trying to, like, smile more at people in person. I'm, like, trying to be more open because I've complained about it before that I feel like in LA when you go out,

people are like, these are my friends and I don't need another friend. And you're like, okay, well, I don't feel like I could approach you. So I've been like, you should be more open. You should be okay with people approaching you. So I don't know.

I'm just trying, but mostly apps and it's bad. It's not good. Erica, I ask all of my guests this, but if you weren't married, would you date me? Of course. Of course.

Thank you. I'm already totally into you. Erica, thank you. I love the way you laugh. Thank you. I love the way you laugh. Thank you. Sometimes I surprise myself with how loud it is. Sometimes it's so loud that I'm like, oh, no, everyone hates me. But I can only imagine that laugh, you know, with like the end of an orgasm and then that laugh coming out that it's like filling the whole room and sometimes

people are taken aback it only happens like every i don't know every couple times i have sex because guess what i'm not having an orgasm every time sometimes i but of course who has that is also that is also so stressful i mean people are so obsessed with orgasms. I mean, of course, they are wonderful. That's not it. But sex is so much more than just an orgasm. I agree. Sometimes having sex and not having an orgasm is fulfilling.

Of course. Because then I can just come later with like a vibrator or something. But like sometimes it's just the human interaction. But I think it's very good when it's the combination of the vibrator and the human interaction. That's nice. But I've never been in like a relationship where they've wanted to use a vibrator. No? Well, that you need to try.

That is, do it. Just do it. Put it out on the app, you know? You go like, I'm looking for someone that wants to manage my vibrator. I just need someone to press the on button. Erika, what's next for you? What's next for me? Do you have anything you want to promote?

Will you have your website X Confessions? Well X Confessions you know I love it It's an ongoing project really And it's also important to say that I'm not the only director making films for this site Because we are producing other directors also We have an open call going on So we are always looking for filmmakers out there, especially women, who are interested

in making an adult film, a short film, you know. So if you have an idea, pitch it to me. Maybe I can find us and produce your film because I think that the only way if we want to challenge

the mainstream, you know, porn that's out there, we need to make different kind of porn. I agree. We need different people to make that different kind of porn. And we need to get together, you know, so we can make more of it. I agree. Well, Erika, it was so nice to meet you. And thank you so much for being here.

Thank you so much. It was amazing meet you. And thank you so much for being here. No, thank you so much. It was amazing meeting you. And I invite you to write a confession if you have, you know, something that you would like to see in a film. Maybe I can make a film for you. Okay. Let's see. What would I like? what would I like okay

I would like to see a big black woman with um let's see uh so someone who looks like me and then I think I would like to see her riding a horse

wow and then I think I want to see her come into the stable and be like, dang, riding a horse is real hard. And then there's like a really hot like horse hand man. I don't know what that's called. A ranch hand. A man in a cowboy hat who's like really like glistening and like handsome. And I want him to be like, yeah, riding horses is hard. And then I want him to say, do you want dinner? And then we go to dinner. And then we have like a lovely conversation.

We're all like laughing. We're like, hey, hey, hey. And then he's like, do you want me to like give you a ride home? And I say, yes, please. And then we get to my house and he goes, can I kiss you? And I go, oh, my. This is like out of the blue. I thought like this was a friendship thing.

And he's like, no, no, no. I think you're beautiful. And I'm like, yay, beauty. And then we kiss. And then he goes, let's go inside. And then we go inside and then we have sex. And then while we're having sex, he goes, ride this dick. And then she goes, I don't know. I feel a little bit uncomfortable. And he's like, I'll teach you how to ride. And then he teaches her how to ride because I had a real hard time riding. And I think other women might too. And I think it might be fun to watch a porn where someone doesn't know how to do everything. Yeah, I buy your idea.

I love it. Everybody knows how to do everything. And I don't think that's a real thing. Totally. Who are we going to cast? We need people to write to us so we can cast this movie. Yes. Okay.

So if you have any ideas on who should play me and who should play the hot horse hand man. I'm not saying this right. A horse hand man? I don't know. The hot horse hand man. You can, I guess, tweet at me? And then what's your Twitter handle? Erica Lust.

Erica with a K. So Erica with a K Lust and at Nicole Byer tweeted us with who should play me and the horse ranch hand man. That's not what it's called. I'm thinking about this Australian movie where he was called the groover, right? The man handling the horses. A groover? A groover. Oh, a groomer. No, groomer the groover, right? The man handling the horses. A croover? A groover.

Oh, a groomer. No, groomer, groover. I don't know. I don't know. In Australia, how do you say it? Yeah, if you're Australian and you know, let us know. Okay, if you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me, you can like it on iTunes, you can subscribe, you can rate it. And if you send me a nasty, come on, I will read it. This person wrote, I want to open your legs and motorboat your cod canal

until you're as wet as the seven seas and we sail away in ecstasy. That was gross and I liked it. Okay. This person said uh hi Nicole I want to crack an egg on your vagina and fuck you so hard that I scramble it that one's funny cause that means my vagina's hot enough to cook an egg

oh that made me giggle thank you so much Erica bye bye Hot enough to cook an egg. Oh, that made me giggle. Thank you so much, Erica. Bye-bye. This has been a Team Coco production.