Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Saying 'I Love You' Too Soon (w/ Sam Sanders)

Episode Date: December 6, 2024

Journalist Sam Sanders (NPR, Vibe Check) joins Nicole to discuss saying "I love you" during random hookups, the best way to handle breakups when someone has to move out, and how a hookup turned into a relationship. Sam shares the story of his secret gay age-gap romance and the time he dated a drug dealer. Meanwhile, Nicole recounts the time she whacked a man with her tiddy and gives her review of Joker: Folie à Deux.Watch this episode on YouTube at youtube.com/watch?v=HeF1X9XIj6MThis episode is brought to you by:» Quince: Gift luxury this holiday season without the luxury price tag. Go to Quince.com/dateme for 365-day returns, plus free shipping on your order.» Essie: Shop essie nail polish at Target.Follow:Our New TikTok: @whywontyoudatemepod YouTube: @WhyWontYouDateMePodcastInstagram: @nicolebyerX: @nicolebyerNicole's book: indiebound.org/book/9781524850746This is a Headgum podcast. Follow Headgum on Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok. Advertise on Why Won't You Date Me? via Gumball.fm.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Love listening? Now you can watch too! The full video episode is on YouTube. Just follow the link in the episode description. This is a HeadGum Podcast. Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Oh. Oh. Oh, baby, welcome to a new brand new episode of Why. I, OK, I'll start over. No, leave it in. Yeah, I mean, leave it in. Yeah, I mean, leave it in. Oh, baby, welcome to another episode. What is happening?

I think I literally was being distracted by myself on the screen. I was like so pretty and like looking at myself and I was like, what am I doing? You look good. Oh, baby, welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me? A podcast with me, Nicole Byer, has been trying to figure out why I was just single for so long, even though you could keep coming in a jar and tell me that, it's oat milk. My guest today is an award winning podcast host, reporter and radio host,

who you might know from NPR, in a minute, NPR's politics podcast and cohost of the show, Vibe Check, his new show, The Sam Sanders Show, is now playing on KCRW on YouTube. And he just interviewed my friends this year. I did. And I am so thrilled that he is here today. It's Sam Sanders! Ah!

You are a hype woman extraordinaire. Can I just have you, like, record a voice note that I play each morning when I wake up? Yeah, I would do that. When you're just like, Sam, Sam, wake up, get out of bed! I could do that for you. I love it, and thank you for having me. Thank you for doing this.

I was thinking back to our interview years ago. You came on my NPR show and we talked about your book, which I still have on my shelf. Oh, thank you. I love it so. Thank you, you and. I love it so. Thank you. You and eight people have it. Well.

And I'm so grateful for those eight people who have it. I enjoyed the book. Thank you. It's the dumbest thing I've ever done and I'm really proud of it. You know, I'm just like, do this and then like keep doing it. So the premise of this book was like, you living your life, looking great in bikinis

all over Southern California. I'm like, let's do it. Next book, J. Crew fall collection. Next book, favorite witch costumes. Next book, Disney villains. Wow. I could like a whole franchise. I guess you should be my agent.

Done. You're my hype woman, I'm your agent. You heard it here first. I've switched representation. Byron Sanders productions. I have your agent. You heard it here first. I've switched representation. Byer and Sanders Productions. I have a question. Okay. Let's get into it.

Let's fucking get, let's get into it. Are you single? So single. Okay. So single. Okay, I didn't even get into the other options. Yeah, I am single. I ended a very serious relationship

close to a year and a half ago. Okay. And I've done the thing lots of people do. It's where like you think three months after you're over it and then you're not. And then you think six months after it's done, you're over it and then you're not. And then, you know, it resurfaces.

Yeah, it's tough because that was love. How long were you with this person? Like two and a half years. That's a long time. And he was the first boyfriend to meet all of my family, to come to holidays, and to be fully integrated into my friend group. Yeah.

He was at my mother's funeral last year. That's nice. So it was really nice. No, that's not nice. It's also obligatory. You're supposed to go. Yeah, you gotta go to the funeral. But I think part of it is like,

you're sad over a breakup, but then you're sad over when it's one that was that big. Because you know me, but before this one, I was just a hoe in these streets. Just in these streets. I was not trying to have a relationship. Swinging deck, saying, who wants it, who wants it?

Yeah. That would be so insane if somebody was just whispering down the street, who wants it, who wants it? Should I try this? No. Next gay bar I'm in. Right to jail.

But in a gay bar. In a gay bar, right to the bathroom. The rules are. That would be a nice time. That would be a nice time. Who wants this? I was on Instagram, cause I love Instagram.

I refuse to move on to TikTok. It's hard for me. I don't like the interface being so dark. I like that Instagram gives me the dopamine I want. So I was reading this thing where this person was like, getting into a relationship and opening your heart up to love and not expecting heartbreak is insane because it might end. And I was like, oh no, that sucks.

It sucks. And this is the thing, you know, when you get into a relationship that you think might be a thing. The one, yeah. Like at six months in, you start telling all your friends, no one has ever done love the way I've done love.

This is the way relationships work. I'm giving you the template. Our relationship is the one to end all relationships. And everyone thinks that. Two dates in, I'm doing that. Two dates and I'm like, you guys, I'm in love. Yeah, it's hard. It is, it's so hard. How did you meet them, if you don't mind me asking?

On the internet, one of them apps. One of them apps. And it was a hookup that became a relash. Oh, okay. Which I never thought would be the case, but that's how it worked out. And I think for gay men, it's like, sure, fine. I think for, yeah, gay men, a lot of people,

a lot of people out here be fucking and then going, you stay. Yeah, like, I wanna talk to you after we're done. Wow. But it was two and a half years you guys were together. Were you living together? No. Okay, so that's kind of like a nice...

bright, cheery side to it, because you didn't have to actually separate your lives. I imagine one of the most awkward experiences of adult life is like being in your apartment while your ex moves out of your apartment. Yeah. That just seems horrid. Because what do you do?

Do you leave your own home? And what if they take your shit? Right? I want to be able to watch. Yeah, I'm watching you. I gotta watch you. Cause what if it ended poorly? I know, cause you can't like,

if you just get an Airbnb for three or four days, you come back. You could be cleaned out. They've taken your Samsung frame TV. You have a Samsung frame TV? The previous people left it in the house. Really? I didn't pay for it.

That's funny because my TV is also remnants from the people who lived there before me. But this TV is from 1992. It is so thin. Can you Roku this thing? Can you Smart TV this thing? Yeah, I can Smart TV it, but sometimes the aspect ratio will just change. Oh no.

And then I go, well, that's like that for a minute. Cause I don't know how to work it. But let me tell you though, you go to Costco, you can get a good TV for less than a fancy LA meal I know TVs are so cheap. They're so cheap and now at this point. They're all good enough. Yeah, they're all good I like that frame TV. I think it's really beautiful. Yeah, don't buy a new frame. That shit is too. That stuff is too expensive You can say shit. Oh shit, and you can say fuck and you can say Bitch, bitch. I truly couldn't think of another curse word.

And I was like, what? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Shit, bitch, fuck. Shit, bitch, fuck. Those are the words here. OK. So you've been out of this relationship for, you said, a year now?

A little over a year. A year plus. Are you looking now, or are you still healing? In the words of my therapist, can both be true. No! No! I hate when a therapist hits you with shit that's real. I know.

I once said to a therapist, I was dating someone, I was like, maybe we should just go to couples therapy. And she goes, why would you put a bandaid on the Titanic? And I said, ma'am. Woo! Ma'am. Woo! I know I'm begging you,

but that was too real. I went to couples therapy, I ain't save shit. It didn't save shit. I guess maybe it's like, once you're like, we should be in couples therapy, maybe it's too late. Maybe it's like when we're in a relationship, maybe we should be in couples therapy. I don't know.

I've had some friends that have started couples therapy preemptively. Everything's going well, we just wanna start it now. And I'm like, okay, go ahead, I'm too cheap for that. I'm also a cheap lady. I'm so cheap. I'm really cheap. I'm so cheap. Things that would like enrich my life and make it easier.

I'm like, no, I'd rather just go out and spend a lot of money on a shitty meal. Mm-hmm. Like one of my favorite meals is from a nasty little restaurant. I can't say the name, it's not kind. Mouth it, mouth it. Oh, okay.

It's really bad. Why do you keep going? Because I love it. I think I like bad food. And I'm like a cheap date. Like I'm not gonna order the most expensive thing off the menu. I'm gonna be like, this appetizer please, two appetizers.

And LA is full of bad meals that cost way too much money. It really is. And they call it farm to table, they call it Calitalian. I'm like, where is the farm? Come on. Wait, you're from a farm. Oh my. You're from a family farm in Texas. Oh my God, yeah, so my dad was a cattle rancher.

Which is wild. So he was, did he wear like cowboy Which is wild. So he was he... He wore like cowboy boots and stuff and he was like, He tried to get us all to ride cowboy boots. Oh! Here's the fun thing about cowboys. When you ride a horse that long for decades. You become bow-legged.

Yep, and that man was so bow-legged. It was charming. Oh, my daddy. Oh my God, wait, is that how I can hear being knock-kneed? Oh. Riding horses? Maybe. There we go. You're here to hear first.

I gotta get a horse now. Get a horse. Get a horse. But yeah, my dad was a cattle rancher most of his adult life. I was his youngest kid from his third marriage, so when I came around, he had kind of retired. So we still had the ranch. He had other folks tend to it, but it was like 200 acres with 300 head of cattle.

And on the weekends we would go. And I knew I was gay because we'd go out there on the weekends. And my brother was like, I wanna be out there with the cows. And I would sit my ass in the house on the ranch and watch PBS. Mm.

I would watch Bob Ross. That's so funny. I was not effing with those cows. Really? I would fuck with a cow. I think they Bob Ross. That's so funny. I was not effing with those cows. Really? I would fuck with a cow. I think they're nice. Well, now that TikTok and Instagram reels have shown me how much personality cows have, I'm into it, but I didn't have that knowledge as a kid.

No, I get it. I went to the Gentle Barn where they have like a bunch of sick animals and I think some of them are not sick. Where's that? Santa Clarita maybe? I don't know. It's like... Up there. Up.

You're headed north on the compass. Yes. But they had this like sassy cow. And they said she was sassy, but she was just like laying there. But like, I really liked her, and you got to pet her and stuff. I love animals. And cows are snuggly. Like, I've seen these videos of the cows that like their owners.

They like cuddle with them. And they got big old fat heads and just hold their head. I want a miniature cow. I want like a miniature farm, which is not real. It can be. No, it can't be. Dream it and believe it. Dream it and believe it and you can achieve it.

But miniature pigs grow up to be like 60 pounds. But I want one that like fits in my hand and I want a cow that fits in my hand. So I could be Ronald McDonald. Rhonda McDonald, I don't know. Wait, Ronald McDonald? Old McDonald? Who's?

I mean, McDonald's is a farm of sorts. Oh my God. I had an aneurysm. I was like, I gotta figure out where the McDonald's, like who goes where. Which one? Old McDonald's has a farm and his son Ronald started a hamburger company. That's how it goes.

Farm to table. Oh, if McDonald's did this rebrand. They should. The original Farm to Table. They should. Yo. Pay me. Pay her.

Pay me. As her new agent. Yes. McDonald's I'm telling you. Oh my God, I can see the campaign now. Pay me. Pay her. Pay me. As her new agent. Yes. McDonald's, I'm telling you. Oh my God, I can see the campaign now.

Old McDonald had a farm. Wait, and it's like a cartoon thing where like an old farmer Yes. transforms into Ronald McDonald? No, Ronald's his son. The son that he's upset with because he's like,

the clown will never amount to anything. And he's like, Dad, what if I start a restaurant? And he was like, with what? Money amount to anything. And he's like, dad, what if I start a restaurant? And he was like, with what money? Yours, daddy, and the meats. And he goes, okay. Okay, who, okay, okay, okay. Who is the actor that plays either father or dad?

Denzel Washington. I'm putting him in everything. I didn't, I mean, I love a world with the black Ronald McDonald, but I didn't know that that was the way it was working. Well, listen, we don't know what ethnicity old McDonald is. We just know he had a farm. That's true. And the original farmers... Were black people.

...in America were black and brown. And also, Ronald is wearing makeup, so we don't know his ethnicity either. We can rewrite history however we want. Yo! Wait, wait. Okay. The old farmer, old McDonald is Denzel. Denzel Washington. And then Ronald McDonald is one of his kids.

Yes! Who acts. And it's beautiful. I can't wait to see the Gladiator 2 movie because Denzel's in it. I have not seen Gladiator 1. Gladiator 1 is pretty good. Is it? It's actually pretty good.

I probably won't see it before Gladiator 2. I'm going for Denzel. Also, in those posters, that man looks good. Is it? It's actually pretty good. I probably won't see it before Gladiator too. You don't have to. I'm going for Denzel. Also, in those posters, that man looks good. He looked good in the fucking trailer. Sure did, baby. I was like, how does he look so good all the damn time? Why won't Denzel date me? Truly, because he's married.

He is one of them wives. Question remains. Yeah, Denzel. Leave that bitch. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding, I don't know her. We love Paula. I don't know her.

We love Paula. Paula, Paula's great. But I did. I don't know her. We love Paula. We love Paula. I don't know her. We love Paula. Paula? Paula's great. Um, but I did see Joker 2 return to... You saw that? Yes. I call it Joker 2, return to Joker Mountain. And, okay, have you seen it? I hear it's very bad. Okay.

I hear it's very bad. All of my favorite movie podcasts are like, yeah, it's bad. Here's the thing. Okay, if you haven't seen it, uh, fast forward. If I did a breakdown on my Instagram, I could do it here too. Okay, so yeah, it's a court trial. That's a lot of it. It's a lot of like court and like jail and like bad and like Joaquin is thin.

And I was like, Ozempic done got my man. So then Lady Gaga, she plays Harley Quinn, but they call her Lee and I was confused. I don't know. Okay. So they have a meet-cute in the home for the unwell. How can there be a meet-cute in the home for the unwell? Here, they don't explain it.

So the Joker, Arthur, gets to go to music lessons because the guard wants to sing. And he's like, I'll bring him. No reason, we just don't know. And he just brings him. So then she like smiles at him. And he smiles at her. And then later she's like, I start fires. And he's like, I kill people. And then they're like...

And then they like start this like romance. It's like a meet-cute. And they sing a lot, right? I hear they sing a lot. Yeah, they have like delusions where they sing and stuff. But then some of it isn't a delusion. But then she gets let out of the Unwell Center for bad behavior because she started a fire. And then she's like, I'm gonna come to your court trial and stuff,

but first I'm gonna come meet you in jail, put some makeup on you and let you pump me twice. Which I was like, this is honestly the gayest thing I've ever seen. Lady Gaga putting makeup on a man so he can fuck her. That's gay and I love it. That's praxis on a man so he can fuck her. That's gay. And I love it. That's praxis, baby. Yes. Oh, my God.

It's great. So Ben... This is the future liberals want. Yes. Fuck! It definitely is. So Ben... That is brat, baby. I love it. It is brat. It really is.

I was like, I love that she's like, only in your clown makeup. And then he like finds out she was lying and she's like, yeah, but we're both crazy. And he's like, oh, okay. And she's like, only in your clown makeup. And then he like finds out she was lying and she's like, yeah, but we're both crazy. And he's like, oh, okay. And she's like, and I'm pregnant. And I was like, another lie. It's so good. So then... So then... So then...

So then he's like, I'm not the Joker. I'm literally ruining this movie. So then he's like, I'm not the Joker. And she was like, that's what I signed up for. You said that you were a crazy Joker person. That's what I wanted. I said I'm psychotic. I dressed her up like the Joker. Yeah, so like that's, we were trying to meet in the middle.

You're no longer meeting me. So I'm gonna uphold a boundary and we're breaking up. Okay. And I was like, this is a feminist movie. Come on. It's a feminist movie. So I guess I have to see this movie now? No, you really don't.

I truly just told you what I got from it. But yeah, so wait, did you break up with your partner or they break up with you or do you not wanna say? That's also an option. Let's not even get into it. No, no, no, because here's the thing. It was one of those breakups. Amicable-o?

Yeah, and so when it's amicable and it feels like an adult conversation and both parties agree, for several months you're like, oh, we broke up. But then you're like, before the amicable conversation was one of us plotting to have this conversation before the other. Whoa, oh my God, that's the thing. Then you can drive yourself crazy thinking about that.

Okay, Sam, this is the thing about relationships where I'm like, I can't control the other person, I don't know what they're thinking. It bothers me. And you never know what they're thinking about you. No! And even if they say, I only think good things about you

because lizard brain, you're like, no. Yes. I was dating a man and I was like, what happens if you don't like me one day? And he was like, I don't know. And I was like, say it, say I'm a nasty bitch. He was like, what's wrong with you? Yeah, yeah.

And I'm like, I don't know. I just like wanna be prepared for like when you say it for real. Exactly, but then if you think too much about worst case scenario, you cannot be present in the relationship. Oh my God. It's too much.

It really is, relationships are too much. I love Love on the Spectrum. And I gotta watch that. It's really fun. And then I saw a clip from a, maybe it's an English show that has people with autism or people who have autism. There's a way I'm supposed to say it, I don't remember.

Anywho. We mean well, good intentions. I do, I mean well, and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to say it, but there's two people, they're autistic, and they like meat, and then they have a bunch of stuff in common, and they like meat and then they have like a bunch of stuff in common and like they immediately are like, we like each other and I would like to see you again.

And like they like lingered holding hands and it was just like really cute. And I was like, how come, how come, I guess it's called neurodivergency or whatever, but I'm like, there's so much honesty. I'm like, how come neuro-typical people, why aren't we honest? Oh, yeah. And then, like, and the bullshit we do.

The bullshit, like, I gotta wait six hours to text him back. Yes! I can't text him back till tomorrow. Why are we doing this? And it's gotta be dot, dot, dot. And it's gotta be, well, maybe if you're free next week, I could consider possibly. Yes!

Just be like, I like you, I'd like to see you again. When is the last time I've told anyone I like you you were afraid to say it we are afraid to say it I don't know why I will say it right now in here platonically. I like you God look at us honesty emotional honesty. I Tend to say things too quickly I was dating this dude. This is a couple years ago, and I was like, I feel like you're my boyfriend. And I mean, it's been like enough time that like, and he was like doing boyfriend things and he was like,

and I was like, he was like, both parties have to agree. And I was like, ah! What lawyer is this? Ah! And I was like, oh, die before I tell another person how I actually feel. Oh. I had a phase when I was not at my emotional best where I needed to person how I actually feel. Oh.

I had a phase when I was not at my emotional best where I needed to say, I love you during random hookups. Oh. And I was... You would say I love you to people you were randomly hooking up with and never saw again? I once fucked a man who said, I love you.

No! And I said, hey, okay. I didn't know what to say. Well, let me tell you what a gay man will do in the bedroom. Yes, Angie. I love you too! Wow. Then when it's done, you say, you know we're just joking here, right? Just joking. It just helps me get in the space.

I would walk into traffic. I mean, I also, I've never said I love you during sex. That seems very, um... scary. Oh, my God, like, you're up inside me and you're like, I love you, and I'm like, ah! Oh! It's kind of a mindfuck, though. You're just like...

I have nothing else to bear. Yeah, I love you. Love is such a heavy word. It's also a light word. Yeah, I love you. Love is such a heavy word. It's also a light word. Yeah, because I love chilies. We love all kinds of things, yeah. I love Skinny Pop sitting over there. Yeah, me too.

I love shopping. It's a problem. It's okay, though. But it's not. I buy too dang much. Also, I do this awful thing because I love vintage stuff. I will buy things that are not my size just so someone else can't have it.

Ha ha ha ha ha! This reminds me of another chaotic Nicole Byers shopping interlude that I saw, heard on your other podcast with Sasheer. Yeah. Talking about getting sticky fingers at Michael's. Yep, I talked about it on Seth Meyers' show a couple years ago too. I love stealing.

Stealing is so much fucking fun. Everything is overpriced All these CEOs making so much money and the workers are making minimum wage and then you're replacing them with the self-checkout I don't work here. So I'm taking some of it. I took a blender from Target How did you get it out of there? In my hand. Target runs a tight ship. What are you gonna say to me? Is that your blender?

Yes. Yes. It's my blender. What if they're like, can I see your receipt? Oh, I left it over there. And she's mad at me for telling strangers I love them. Nicole does this on every show she's on. Listen, what's the bigger crime? Telling a man you'll never see again, you'll love him?

Or stealing from Target? Whatever. They're both allowables, what we're saying. I think so. Yeah, I always steal. I love stealing. The next time someone tries to call you out on taking something from Michael's or Target, you should look at them and say right in the eyes,

like you're insects, I love you. I should. Honestly, you should look at them and say right in the eyes, like you're insects. I love you. I should, honestly I should. Just try it. But if somebody were to stop me now, as the adult I am who has been stealing for as long as I have, I would say, what is it to you? Is it coming out of your paycheck?

No, they should actually be paying you more. Come on. Leave me alone. Come on, are you unionized? What's your hourly wage? What are you doing? Come on. And then I'll actually be paying you more. Come on. Leave me alone. Come on. Are you unionized? What's your hourly wage? What are you doing? And then I'll radicalize everybody into starting unions at their jobs. Bam. Oh my God, look at me.

Once this taping is done, can I go rob things with you? Yes! Let's do it. But here's the thing, we're both black, so they're gonna be on our backs. Girl. That's like the one thing about shoplifting that's annoying. Ha ha ha! Being black.

Because they're like, you're stealing. Yeah. And it's like, I am. I am. In fact, although I will say this as a black man that lots of white folks want to find threatening, as soon as I have a dog with me, they're like, oh! So if I brought my cute pit bull... Oh my God, if you bring the... No.

No, if you bring a pit bull to the store, they'll definitely be like, they're up to something I brought my cute pit bull. Oh my God, if you bring the, no. No, if you bring a pit bull to the store, they'll definitely be like, they're up to something. White ladies love pit bulls now. Oh. There's been a shift in the culture. They wanna save them all. Oh.

They are ready. I was at this jewelry bazaar. I think I was just at a... What'd you take from there? Nothing. Because that's an independent small business. I'm not stealing from there. I support that. I would like that to take over, you know from there? Nothing. Because that's an independent small business. I'm not stealing from there.

We support that. I would like that to take over, you know, K Jewelers. But there was a black woman there and she had bought something and she was looking at a ring and she had taken something out of her bag. And I just clocked it to be like, what's the technique? What are we doing? But then she like put the thing back in the bag, the ring down, and I was like, no technique. She wasn't stealing.

And then the lady from behind the counter was like, she took it, didn't she? She took it, didn't she? To you? She was talking about this woman to me, and I hated it because she was a black lady, but I am a black lady who steals, so... The moral and ethical dilemma. So it's like, can I be upset that she accused this woman?

But then I found the ring. I was like, she just double slotted it. Yeah. But I wanted to like, I didn't want her to have that stain. Well, and this is the thing people don't talk about enough, like the shopping while black stigma, it is so internalized in us. To this day, if I'm in a store where I think the vibes are off, I get a receipt and a bag, and I hold the bag up when I'm leaving, so you see. I don't do that.

I know. Because there is no receipt. Yeah, yeah. I want to better embody your spirit. Yeah, I wouldn't say. Because I get startled when in like a clothing store, someone's like, can we help you out with something? I'm like, what do you mean?

You can't. I wasn't stealing. I'll find it. I was in Primmark in England. Of course you were. And. Of course you were. And... Of course you were, as one does. As one does.

And the line was insanely long. And I was like, so I'm gonna wait 30 minutes for a $5 shirt that I need. I'll just put it on and leave. And my friend who was with me was like, Nicole, we are in a different country. And I was like, and? Oh, my God.

And I put it on on the floor. And walked out. With people folding near me and walked right out. Nobody said anything. Primark didn't lose anything. Damn. No one's salary went down. I'm a criminal. Can I make a pledge to myself in front of you right now?

Yeah, don't, don't, no. I pledge to steal something before I make a pledge to myself in front of you right now? Yeah, don't, don't, no. I pledge to steal something before the year is done. Please don't. Please don't. I have to. Honestly though, if you do get caught stealing. You're bailing me out. No. I would like you to be like,

Nicole Byers said I could. As they drag me off in cuffs. Honestly, if anyone starts stealing because of this, if you get arrested, please say, Nicole Byers said I could do this. Send pictures into the show of the things you stole. In high school, we used to play a game called What's in Grandma's Bag.

I would bring a shopping bag with nothing in it, put my purse in it, and then fill it up with stuff, and then we'd go out to the car, and my two best friends would go, What's in Grandma's Bag? And then I'd hold up everything that I took. Oh my God. Where do you think this comes from? The stealing?

Yeah. My mother used to say I had an entitlement problem. She was like, you seem to be, you think you're entitled to all these things. I love it. And here's the thing, nyong. You are. Nyong. You deserve.

I wanna. There you go. But also I shopped from like old Navy when I was younger. Oh girl. You deserve. I wanna... There you go. Also, I shoplift from like, Old Navy when I was younger. Oh, girl. I know. Dream bigger. Wait, Sam. So, are you on apps since your healing

and getting ready to jump back in? What's an app to a gay man? This app that, it's funny, someone else asked me like, what's your most used app right now? And I was like, you don't wanna know, sweetheart. Instagram. Yeah, that's what I said. You know, here's your most used app right now? And I was like, you don't want to know, sweetheart. Instagram. Yeah, that's what I said. You know, here's the thing about the apps

and why there's no shame around whichever app you're on, because everyone's on all of them. I see the same faces on each one, and some present themselves as nicer and more upstanding, and some are just like, you're here to fuck, ain't you? And without fail, it'd be the same people on all the apps. What do you mean? The same faces.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The same faces, the same names. Mm-hmm. It happens a lot where like someone I didn't match with on one app pops up on the other app, and then I think I'm having a conversation with someone else, but it's like once you see the whole face, it's like, oh, we did not talk on this one. Yes. I had one.

I had an interaction on an app. One of the more, one of the seedier ones. This was like a week ago. Rinder? Seedier, seedier. Oh wait, what is the one where it's like a map? Scruff? Sure.

What is it? One of them, it's five. Wait, what's the one? I don't want folks looking for me on any of these. Okay, fine, fine. But that's it. Whatever one you're thinking. Yes! Okay, that one. me on any of these. But that's it. Whatever one you're thinking. Yes.

Okay. That was. Such a funny name for it. So on those kind, a lot of times you don't want to show your face, you're showing other parts of your body. A chest, a this, a that. Which means that a lot of times people will hit you up thinking you're somebody else.

That happened to me the other day. I'm minding my own business, waiting at the car wash to get my car cleaned and I get this message on that app and it's like, hey do you remember me? And I was like no I don't so I'm not gonna write back. Then this person writes back and is like we hooked up around here remember? I don't write back. He goes, we fooled around in the alley behind the car wash remember? And I was like Sam,, I need to let him know it's not me and that he should be a little more wary of his safety. That's so funny.

I write back and I say, I think you have the wrong guy. And then he goes, okay, sorry, do you wanna meet me in the alley? Oh my God, that's how he gets ya. You go, oh, mistaken identity. But I mean, if's how he gets ya. You go, oh mistaken identity. But I mean, if you're gonna suck a dick, might as well be mine. Yeah.

That is so funny. It was wild. Did you hook up with him? No! I would've. I would've. The older I get, the more I'm like, I cannot let public sex and arrest over that

derail my career. I guess you're right. Morgan's must be paid. Morgan's must be paid. Also, this was broad daylight that this man wanted to hook up in an alley. Yes. Yeah, maybe not.

And LA doesn't have good alleys. LA does not have good alleys. Chicago has great alleys. Oh. Very good alleys. Noted. Some of the best alleys ever seen. So, okay.

Okay. What's the first relationship that you've had? How old were you? Oh my God, okay. Okay. You, what's the first relationship that you've had? How old were you? Oh my God, girl. I was raised severely Pentecostal. Severely? Like so Pentecostal, my mother was the church organist. And I was in the church band and the youth choir.

And I was in church many times, six times a week. And our church was very socially conservative. And one of the biggest ends was homosexuality. They've all since become a lot actually more progressive on it, quietly, which I appreciate as real growth. But that meant that even though I knew in my heart of heart that I was gay, I was dating girls throughout school up until I was maybe like 24. Oh! Yeah. And to every single one of y'all, I'm sorry. throughout school, up until I was maybe like 24. Oh.

Yeah, and to every single one of y'all, I'm sorry. We've all made our amends, but I was doing that. Do you think they knew? Some of them did. And did they ask, were they like, are you? Girl, there was one girl when I was living in DC, she was trying to like get with me, and I was in the process of coming out,

and like starting to own my sexuality, and this was like kind of known in my friend circle. And she kept pursuing me, and then one of my good friends was like... She pulled her aside and was like, woman to woman, girl, just so you know. You know. And the woman was like, oh, I know! I can fix them. Yes, she did.

I wish I had confidence like that. To be like, I can change someone's whole sexuality. Or they're gonna like me enough and they're gonna want this. And their listener, she couldn't. No. She couldn't. No, you can't change somebody. No.

No. But no, there were, there was more than one woman where I knew that they were interacting with me, knowing in their heart of hearts my sexuality, but still doing that. And, you know, it's like, it is what it is. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. They're like, I never can find a guy, or the guys I always go for are gay. And it's like, well, yeah, you're like, you're doing it.

You're going for gays. You're doing that. Yeah, yeah. I remember I told a friend in high school that I had a crush on them, but I didn't. I just knew that they were gay, and I wanted them to tell me. Did they tell you? No. They were just like, oh, I'm just like into other girls. And I wanted them to tell me. Did they tell you? No.

They were just like, oh, I'm just like into other girls. And I was like, oh, all right. Yeah, for years I would just be like, I'm seeing someone else right now. There was nobody else. You had a girlfriend in Canada? I had a friend who actually had a girlfriend in Canada. That was his story.

And we were like, say any other country. I mean, that is very funny. Say any other country. She's just in Canada getting great health, and she can't come here. Like if you said my girlfriend's in Belize, I'd be like, cool. Cool, let's go to Belize. Let's go to Belize.

I would just automatically believe that, but as soon as you say Canada and girlfriend, that's a note for me. That's a note for me. So when was your first boyfriend? You were 25, you said. When I was like, really coming out. Oh no, you came out at 25,

so when was your first partner? I had a secret boyfriend my second year of graduate school. A secret boyfriend? Andrew. Honk, honk. You don't have to give first and last names. No, I don't. I actually shouldn't take that out.

You looked right into the camera and said that. Because I love him, and if he's listening, call me. First and last name. We need to catch up. No, Andrew. My God. Blade that. You can keep Andrew.

Blade the last name. Yeah. Andrew and I met when I was in my second year of graduate school up in Boston. And he was a fully formed adult, a grade school teacher living in Dorchester. But we hit it off and I would take the train from Cambridge to Dorchester

to see him several times a week. After he came to my graduation and sat in the back so that he wouldn't make it weird for my family. Aw. After I graduated, I had a few months of gap between my school being done and my job starting. I lived with him. He wanted to give me money to float me for a few months,

and I was like, no, I won't take it, but he was the most supportive man. Wait, he wanted to give you money to what? To like float me for a while to get my job. Oh, I've been like, fuck me for a few months. And I was like, no, I won't take it. But he was the most supportive man. Wait, he wanted to give you money to what? To like float me for a while to get my job. Oh, I was like, fuck you for a couple months. And I was like, this is an interesting, very interesting arrangement. I might've said yes to that. Sex work is real work.

It is real work. He was just such a kind, generous spirit. One, he knew that I was still coming out. So he was not pushing me to like... Was he older? He's older. How much older? I was 24, he was 46. Okay. And he was just pushing me to like... Was he older? He's older. How much older?

I was 24, he was 46. Okay. And he was just so supportive and kind. And he kind of just took care of me in this phase of transition. And we stayed in touch. He's a sweetheart. He got married. Aww.

He got married. He's doing well. I was hoping he was still running a home for Wadeward Gays. Just taking them in. Taking them in. Rehabilitating. Sending them out into the world. Yeah.

That's lovely. I love that you got to be in a healthy relationship. It wasn't healthy. It was secretive and hidden. Okay. But... Yeah. For your benefit. It wasn't like he wanted to keep it a secret. It was like your family. Yes, he was being kind to me. Yes, that's nice.

And it was really nice to have what was my first real gay relationship, have it be with someone who was older and wiser. Mmm. And I know people look down on age gaps sometimes, but it's like, he just was... Well, you were 26. Four. Four.

Yeah, he was 46. Okay. I think that's okay. Right? I think like 24, 25, you could date with whatever. I'm grown. I'm grown. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's okay. Yeah. I might think about it later and go, no, but for now it's okay. Right, he wasn't predatory. He was like, matter of fact, he cooked for me. He's a good man. What did he cook for you?

I forgot to know that I was fed. That's nice. And our first date was at the Cheesecake Factory. Oh my God, what did you order? Now I order the meatloaf. Oh. But for the longest time, my go-to order was like the Jamaican chicken,

black pepper, shrimp dish. That's nice. And their miso salmon to stand out. Oh, I have not had salmon at the Cheesecake Factory. But they used to have this burger with like bacon inside the burger and that was so fucking good. Um, I think I just talked about the Cheesecake Factory on a different episode.

I was there last week. I was there two nights ago. Girl, which one did you go to? The one in the Maracana. I got one in the Grove. Well, the Maracana is just closer to me. The Grove is so fucking far away. I just love the Cheesecake Factory.

Also, here's the thing about Cheesecake Factory. It's a scratch kitchen, which means every day, everything is fresh. How do you know? It's verifiable. They talk about it. They talk about it. Their food tastes just like Chili's, and Chili's shit comes in a bag. It's so much better than Chili about it. How do you know? They talk about it. Your food tastes just like Chili's

and Chili's shit comes in a bag. It's so much better than Chili's. No it's not. They don't do bag food. They chop the vegetables themselves in the morning. You know this. Google it. Get your phone out.

No. Get your phone out. No. Get your phone out. No. Okay. And what do I Google? Is Cheesecake Factory a scratch kitchen?

And if you confirm that they are, Cheesecake Factory sponsors both of our shows? Is Cheesecake Factory a scratch kitchen? And if you confirm that they are, Cheesecake Factory sponsors both of our shows. Is Cheesecake... Where's my phone? This is what people want. Or the CF as I call it. This auto corrected to, is Cheesecake a cake or a pie? Is Cheesecake a scratch kitchen? The only foods that aren't cooked fresh

are the cheesecakes and baked desserts. They're made at an offsite bakery and shipped in. Boom, bam. All right. Well, on that note, we have to take a break. This podcast is presented by Essie Nail Polish. Okay, let's talk a little bit about the holiday self care. Oh, way I'll need a break during the crazy holiday season.

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Cheesecake Factory is a scratch kitchen. I feel very strongly about them. I mean, I love it. Have you ever looked at... So the one at the Americana has a menu outside the doors. And the font is so small because there's too many items on the... They can't get it all in there? It's so funny to me. Yeah, yeah.

But I do really love it. It is the... It feels like you're sitting inside a dragon. Like, the decor is wild in a way that like... I'm like, someone was paid for this. Like, almost kind of late Roman Empire, but a lot of other stuff. It's weird. It's bizarre and I love it. The one that I go to in the Grove

overlooks the movie theater right next to it. And if you get the right seats, you can look over into the lobby of the theater before you go in to see your movie. Talk about a date night. overlooks the movie theater right next to it. And if you get the right seats, you can look over into the lobby of the theater before you go in to see your movie. Why are you trying to look in the lobby? Talk about a date night. I like to watch people walking in, walking out.

I'm a weird one. It's not weird. I like people watching. The one at the Americana is right by the train tracks. By the sidewalk. We love them all, train. I do love them all, train. Are you fucking kidding?

The Grove has one too. So the Americana has upped its scale. I haven't been in years. There's a Gucci. There's a Yves Saint Laurent. Oh, shit. There's a Golden Goose. Oh, shit. There's more.

Let me go east. It's wild. All right, let me go east. Also, speaking of malls. LA, I think, is a mall capital of the world, because also, Century City Mall, which I F with. I hate to tell you, New Jersey is the mall capital. Wait. We have so many malls in New Jersey.

But do they have the mall fancier than the Century City Mall? Yeah, man. Cherry Hill Mall. Really? It's beautiful. Okay. I haven't been in years, I don't know.

Sam, what are your icks in a partner? What don't you like? What do you like? What do you like? One of my icks is like people being afraid to say what they want in the moment. I talk for a living. So I just be having conversations.

And then I try to speak with clarity and say, I want this, I don't want that. And I hate it when people are like, oh yeah, that time we had that talk a month ago and we talked about this and I said I wanted this. Actually, I was afraid to say that I wanted that. I'm over that. And I'm over friendships or relationships where you can't just be up front with me.

Like, be up front. I'm trying to... I'm trying to harder do that. My God. Sentences sometimes are so tough for me. It's okay. I am trying harder harder do that. My god. Sentences sometimes are so tough for me. It's okay. I am trying harder to do that. I'm one of those people that'll be like, hey eight months ago you threw a grape at my head and I didn't like it.

Yeah, and it's like you could have said it then when I threw the goddamn grape. I know, but I find it so hard. I think it's because I'm like, what if someone gets mad at me and kicks me in the chest and I fall down the stairs? Like, and I've said this before to friends and they're like, when has that happened? I'm like, what if someone gets mad at me and kicks me in the chest and I fall down the stairs? Like, and I've said this before to friends and they're like, when has that happened? And I'm like, never. But like, I just get so,

I just don't wanna like make anybody upset. So I have a hard time being like, this is how I felt in the moment. But that person's more upset eight months later. Cause then they're gonna be in their mind like, oh shit, this person carried this weight and this burden for eight months. And they're going to feel bad.

Yeah. Say how you feel in the moment. Say how you feel. So that's my biggest ick. Like, I'm 40 years old. Mm-hmm. Use your words. Oh!

There are no context clues in life. There are only context clues in books. Use your words. Wow. Sorry. No, I mean, it's good, because you can't, like, read between the lines of, like, everything. And it's just, like, exhausting.

Yes. Well, that's one of my aches. I find it hard when I meet someone who is like that, where I'm like, oh, my God, you are so secure in, like, what you want and what you need, and you're just telling me. Yeah. This is crazy. But also, even if you don't know how to exactly say what you want,

it's okay to also say, I'm still figuring out what I want. Oh, how wild. Or, I'm still figuring out how I feel about this interaction right now. Oh! And we might revisit it later. Wow. You know? You know? You're a real adult.

Sometimes I feel like I am not an adult. And I'm like, I'm sorry. I got sad a couple weeks ago and I tell you now. I tell you now. It's so annoying. Wait, what's the worst date you've been on? Oh my God. I've actually told this story before.

This was years ago when I was first living in LA. It was Tinder of like three generations ago. And this guy was really aggressively wanting to go on a date with me. And I was like, sure, girl, fine. Let's meet at a public place. Yes. You can pick a restaurant.

He picked this Mexican restaurant that seemed fine, but he was like, let's meet at my place for a drink first, then we'll walk over. Okay. And I was like, mm-hmm. Okay, fine. I get to his apartment. He opens it up.

Everything is white. Like he's a cocaine dealer. Ooh! A big white leather sectional, plasticky looking white kitchen furniture, table chairs, white walls, white lights. It was giving cocaine drug lord. But I was like, let me reserve judgment. I walk in, it smells like cigarettes. So I'm like, okay, this dude proceeds to say, oh, go ahead.

No, just ballsy to smoke inside with everything being white. Thank you. Thank you. So he's like, you want a drink? And I was like, sure. He pours what I swear to you were two triple vodka tonics. Uh-huh. So much alcohol. Uh-huh.

I only took a few sips. He starts pounding his. In five minutes, he's chain-spoken out of his window, telling me all about how he and his ex used to run drugs across the Canadian border. Yes! And then he says the boyfriend got locked up, but he didn't, so he stopped, but he thinks about that man every day.

This is before the date. This is before the restaurant. This man is an icon, a legend. Did you go on the date with him? Sure did! I love that. How was the date? I'm gonna try a new restaurant. So he... I wanted to try a new restaurant! Ha ha ha ha!

I did. So he... He was a white boy. Mm-hmm. Who really took pride in telling me that he knew Spanish and was friends with the Mexican family that ran this restaurant. So I was like, okay, girl, si se puede. We get there.

He starts trying to speak Spanish to the family. It's bad Spanish and they don't remember who he is. Oh no. And so this goes on the whole meal, and I'm just like, sorry, sorry, sorry. The meal finishes, he's so trashed at this point. As we leave, I'm having to hold him up to get him back to his apartment.

He's like wobbly. Oh, no. I remember we were like passing by a 7-Eleven, he wanted to buy more cigarettes, and I was like, I think you're good, and then he leaned in for a kiss. Oh, no. But before he leaned in for a kiss. Oh no.

But before he leaned in for the kiss, the whole night, I noticed that like his nose was like runny and he was sniffly and I was like, oh, that must be the cocaine. I didn't say anything. But after he leaned in for the kiss, I was like, also, you're really sniffly. And he goes in his drunken stupor.

And when I drank a lot and my post-nasal drip comes back. Ew. And let me tell you, that is the most unerotic sentence I've ever heard. Yeah, that's disgusting. I get him back up the stairs to his apartment, basically pushing him up, and I say, Godspeed, drink some water, recover well, this man invites me in. I close this door. That is wild.

That's my worst date. That's my worst date. Yeah, that sounds awful. Yeah, whenever your first date says the phrase post-nasal drip on a first date. But also just like pounding a drink upon meeting somebody. It's like, you gotta be hammered to hang out with me. Yeah. That's not nice.

Not nice. Can we get drunk slowly together? And tell me about your criminal record on date three. I mean... no. Says this one. Says our girl sticky fingers. I'll tell anyone, though I love stealing. But yeah, tell me about your criminal past on the first date. Why not? Let's get into it.

Let's get into it. Because I mean, okay, so he's running drugs. I think I'd be in. If he wasn't a drunk with a post-nasal drip, drip dropping's not everywhere, I would go out with him again. See, my thing is you can pick one of the three. You can be a cocaine dealer, you can be a drunk,

you can have post-nasal drip. You can't be all three. You can't be the trifecta. Propagate even two. Pick one. I pick drug dealer. What would you even two. No. Pick one. I pick drug dealer. What would you pick? I pick drug dealer.

If we're able to keep our business account separate and you don't take me down with you, pay for the vacation. Yeah. Pay for the vacation. Yeah, I truly think I could date somebody who is a drug dealer. Yeah. And when and if they go down, they're like, what did you know? I'd be like, are you kidding?

Nothing. This is the thing, and I've learned this the older I get, the secret to maintaining that kind of relationship is that you can never write it down. It's an only in-person conversation while you're walking the dog outside. You have the chat once, and you say you will never write to me in a text or an email,

anything about your drug life. Nothing. Nothing that will incriminate me. And once you said that, yes. Buy me things, take me on vacation. Do not tell me, don't give me updates about work. I don't want it. But also, I don't think a drug dealer would meet me

and be like, this loose-lipped bitch, I'm gonna tell her everything. I think he'd be like, I gotta keep a lot of stuff close to the heart. But yeah, I would definitely, I don't know, I watched Goodfellas once, I would do it. What drug would you want them to be dealing? Cocaine. You give me the cocaine.

That's a real quick answer. I wouldn't mind, you know, because the psychedelics are becoming ascendant here in California. Yeah. I'd be totally okay with like a psilocybin dealer. I guess, but I'm just like, you can get mushrooms anywhere. It's true. It's true. It's true.

You want some elicit. Throw mushrooms at me. Just like here. Nobody's throwing bags of cocaine at me. Give it time. You know? Give it time. That would be fun.

You know what? What? Sometimes I wish like we could go back to like pre-phones where like you could snort cocaine off the bar. And no one would take a picture. And no one would take a picture of it. I remember, I'm old enough to remember to like pre-phones where like you could snort cocaine off the bar and no one would take a picture of it. I remember, I'm old enough to remember when in Texas where I grew up, you could still smoke in the bars.

Listen, I am also old. When I was an undergrad, we were smoking in the bars. You could smoke in a diner. And do you remember when the bars would have like cigarette ladies that would come around and give out free cigarettes? No, didn't you have to buy them? They would give you a free sample if you asked. Remember when the bars would have like cigarette ladies that would come around and give out free cigarettes? No, didn't you have to buy them? They would give you a free sample if you asked.

You never asked for a free cigarette from the cigarette lady? I cannot have a sample of a ciggy. Yeah. That's so funny. I know, and speaking of funny, even funnier than that, when I knew that this was not good for society was when I was at a bar in undergrad in San Antonio where you could smoke,

and one of the cigarette ladies was third trimester. Listen. It was troubling. You gotta make a living somehow. You do. You know? You do. And sometimes there's no other options. Yeah, she was, I actually bought the whole pack and tipped.

See, you were giving to the future, but also she might not have been pregnant. She could have just been fat in a funny way. Yes. Okay. I'm taking that in. I'm taking that in. I think a lot of people need to understand that not all fat is created equal. And some fats look like they're pregnant.

And that's why you can't be just assuming. She could have been just weird fat. Or not weird fat, different fat than you're used to and could have just not been killing a baby with smoke inhalation. She could have just been thriving. True. I want to revisit the mental picture because yes and we'll never know. We'll never know. We'll never know. But I just know from working at Lane Bryant,

which I call Lane Giant. My mother loved that store. You know, it's a big lady's dream. I was in there a lot as a kid, because she'd drag us in there. Well, I had a shop there because I was a fat kid. But I worked there and I remember someone like congratulating a fat,

it was a thinner person working there and they're like, congrats, how far along are you? And she was like, are you fucking kidding? She got irate. And she's allowed to. This is your safe space. No one should assume you're pregnant here. We're all fat. Out in this store, yeah.

We're all just fat together. What was the other store that used to have? The Avenue. The Avenue my mama liked. Ashley Stewart. We had one in Texas called Dress Barn. Dress Barn. I love that. I didn't like that.

I love it. Get in here, you little animals, get dressed. Oh my God. Dress barn. I love that. I like that. I love it. Get in here, you little animals. Get dressed. Oh my God. Dress barn. So Old MacDonald is married to the person who has dress barn. I love that we're building out this cinematic universe. And Angela Bassett can be dressed barn.

You leave her out of this. And I'm creating a whole universe. Oh my God. And what if the mall that we make, every store is part of this McDonald's family? Oh my God, I would love it. Bam. Claire's, just their misunderstood younger daughter.

Middle child. Real quick, we have to take another break. we have to take another break. Wait, tell me about the best date you've ever been on. It's probably been some kind of date where we crash something. Like, I love a date where it starts out, your vibing, drinks are had, and then, this has happened a few times in my life, we like crash a random wedding reception. We walk into a party that's not for us and just stay. a few times in my life, we like crashed a random wedding reception.

We walk into a party that's not for us and just stay. So those dates I always love and I've had a few of those. And then I always think a best first date is one that has like a second location because it means that you wanna keep it going. So I love a bar after dinner if we're vibing. I love, and so like those are fun. I love, on that vein, like, those are fun. Um, I love...

On that vein, favorite date, favorite date. I don't do second locations on the first date. I get that. I pretend I'm mysterious. Yeah, girl. I'm not mysterious. I'll tell you everything you've ever wanted to know. See, I love to have a first date adventure story that feels like it's out of a movie.

Mmm. I love those. Okay, favorite date. This was in D.C. It went nowhere with this man. We had noodles. It was really great. And then we wanted to keep hanging out, and we went to a bar, and then we wanted to keep hanging out, and I want to say, we went into this, like, hotel that was having a party, so we crashed the party for a while, and then we wanted to keep the party going. So we stole one of their big bottles of champagne

and went up to one of the quieter sections of the hotel lobby and just cuddled and drank champagne out of the bottle. That's nice. He never called me back. He ghosted you? There were like a few texts. He was like casparing, friendly ghosting. He was a casper.

A lot of caspers out there. Friendly ghost. I have never interacted with a friendly casper. It's usually just like like someone's just like, they just ghost me or they're like, hey, I don't think we want the same thing. And I'm like, okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

But no, any date where there's a second location and we can swipe free alcohol and break into things we shouldn't be into, that's what I want. I want a first date that feels like it is the script for an episode of Girls. Like, chaos. Listen, I've been revisiting Girls.

I love that show! It's good. I fucking love that show. I liked it the first time around, but I was like... It is such a capsule of a specific part of Brooklyn. Yeah. And Girls that I knew from that era, like, my god! It's... I love that show. I love that show. I love Lena. I knew from that era. I was like, my god.

I love that show. I love that show. I love Lena. I love all of them. Blessings to those white ladies. Blessings to those whites. Blessings to those white ladies. And that's how I feel about Sex and the City too.

I fucking love Sex and the City. I watch it so much. Oh yeah. I knew Girls was a show to fuck with when Nas, the rapper, was like, yeah, I fucks with girls. He did some interview when Girls was like on its first wave of big press.

Nas was like, I love them girls. I love them girls. I love them girls. It's good enough for Nas, it's good enough for me. It's good enough for me. That's so fucking funny. Wait, okay, so when you, what do you want? What are you looking for in a partner?

Have you told me this yet? I'm gonna tell you and I'm gonna say it loud and proud, the internet can hear it and see it. I was telling a friend yesterday, I said, girl, I can't tell now if what I want is a man, a family, or just a baby. I think I want a baby, they're so fucking cute. You want a baby?

They're so, all my friends have kids, they're all great. I'm friends with all of their kids. Yeah, but are they having- Babies are gorgeous. Okay. You can dress them like yourself. Yeah. You get to like make new adult friends through the kids' friends.

And you always have something to do on the weekend because they're doing activities. But also you have to like raise it and teach it and like care for it. I wanna get independently wealthy enough Uh-huh. To outsource a good amount of that labor. It truly sounds like you want a dog.

I got two. It sounds like you want a small dog. I have two. Look at my pit bulls. Wesley Snipes and Zora Neale Hurts. Oh, that's funny. That's cute. They're very cute. They are. No, but kids are cute. And you want to be tied to something for the rest of your life? It's more than 18 years. It's the rest of your life.

Not in the House of Sanders. You turn 18, you gotta earn your keep. Yeah, but they're still gonna call you and shit. Don't call me. I don't think you want a kid. I simply don't think that's what's happening. Okay, here's why I think that. Whenever I'm around kids, I'm like, oh, this is fun.

They're kind of fun. You deal with kids. Because you leave them. Like I was at dinner with my friend and her daughter was like climbing over a chair and I was like, hey, do you think that's a good idea? And she was like, no. And I was like, yeah.

So maybe we sit at the table and we climb a little later and she was like, no. And I was like, yeah. So maybe we sit at the table and we climb a little later. And she was like, mm, okay. And then she finished ripping her food apart with her hands. And I was like, hey, before we climb on stuff, do you wanna wash our hands? And she was like, mm. I was like, well, I don't know if it's actually a choice. I think you have to wash your hands.

So you don't make other things dirty, because this is not your house. And then her mother was like, wow, I guess you're really great. And then her mother was like, wow, I guess you're really great with kids. And I was like, I'm not with her. I am not with her 24-7. I can be patient with her because this is it.

This is it for a while. Here when you say that, it kind of feels like having a kid up until the age of like 10 is just constantly having a drunk friend around you. Yes, that's exactly what it is. And they're drunk and you gotta mind them. And if you tell them no all the time, they start saying no to you.

And they get belligerent. Yes. So you gotta go, is that a good idea? Yeah. Or like they point at something and you're like, you can't just go that. You gotta teach them what objects are. So you're like, oh, you want scissors?

You can't have the scissors because scissors are sharp. Ow, that hurt me. Do you wanna be hurt? And sometimes they'll be like, yes. And you're like, the scissors because scissors are sharp. Ow! That hurt me! Yeah. Do you want to be hurt? Sometimes I'll be like, yes. I do. No! Yeah. But then you can't say no and you're like, I don't think that's a good idea.

It's exhausting. Being a good parent is exhausting. And I'm not even a parent. I was just a nanny for a while. Wait, how long were you a nanny? Like four years. Were you a fun nanny or a strict nanny? Yeah, I was a great nanny.

Fuck yeah. No. Well, I think I was fun because I was nannying these kids who were like iPad kids, and I was like, no. We're not doing that. We're going out into the world. I love that. And you're gonna have a nice time.

And the littlest one, whenever he saw someone with a walker, would push the walker. And I'd be like, he's not that strong, he just wants to help you. Oh, yeah. Because it could be like this tiny child is trying to kill me. But he just wanted to help you because he was like, Because it could be like this tiny child is trying to kill me. Yes. But he just wanted to help you because he was like, oh, they need help. He was such a sweetie.

Like they were- What if I got a sweet kid who wanted to push walkers and be helpful? He might grow up to not be as sweet. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know where the kids are. Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

When my parents were raising me, they had this village of support. Yeah. My aunt, my mother's sister lived down the road. Our church was always around to help out. The daycare we went to was around the corner. There was literally like a village to take care of us. So my mother, a working woman,

she probably spent three hours a day with us. And that was fine, because she was like, you know. And you had other people hanging out. Go to school, go to daycare, chill. And what I find now, especially with these LA parents, one, they all think they have to be helicopter parents. And two, they don't have any family help. Because their family's in Ohio.

Yeah, I mean, I would never have a kid if I didn't have family around for somebody to help me. Or if I was independently wealthy, I had like a nanny who they called Mom. And they said, Ms. Byer. Yeah. Ms. Byer, we woke up. We're hungry. We'll talk to your mother. Also, if I ever have a kid, don't call me dad.

Call me Sam. Really? Because, yeah, call me Sam. I mean, it is wild that you have a kid and then it's like, you have a new name. Your name's now the name of other people too. Yeah. Also, I've reached that age in homosexual life in a major American city where you turn a certain age on the apps

and the men on the apps call you daddy. So I'm already getting called daddy by those people. Oh, that must be a hard line. And I'm good. I'm good. These adult men, those are my sons. What? This son of mine will call me Sam. That's so funny.

I've never been called like mommy. It's weird. Here's the thing. At first when you hear it, you're like, this is so creepy. I'm not that old. And then you realize any person who was romantically into you or sexually into you that will call you the name that they call a parent, what they're saying to you is,

I will do whatever you want. So let them call you that. Yeah, but nobody's ever called me mommy. Give it time. Listeners, viewers, get on the apps, find her, call her mommy. Call me mommy. Huh.

But I can't imagine someone just being like, oh, mommy. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. It made you laugh, it brought you joy right now. But I don't know someone just being like, oh, mommy. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. It made you laugh. It brought you joy right now. But I don't know if that's a thing. I don't think I've even seen it in porn. When it comes to sex, everything's a thing.

Anything you can think of sexually, someone's into it. I know, but I just don't think mommy's as prevalent as daddy. It's not as prevalent. Like, oh, daddy. But it's there. Oh, mommy. Have you seen the TikTok? There's a TikTok of this like young black guy,

probably 14 or 15. The camera's on him and you realize later that he's laying in his girlfriend's arms. And he's going, mommy, mommy, I love mommy, mommy. And then she pans the camera out and he realizes that he's being recorded. And he's like, what the fuck? He's so mad and his voice drops like three octaves.

I think a lot of the boys like the mommy stuff. I think they do. But I've never been called a mommy. Well, give it to me. Should I be asking people to call me mommy? Please call me mama. Oh my god, it's stuck on my titty. Do it.

Mama. How do you think you would feel if that happened? I think I would laugh. And laughter is good for the soul. I guess. Yeah. But sometimes it surprises people. I was once hooking up with someone and I hit him with my titty and he was so taken aback

and I was like, oh. I just snorted. And we never came back from it. How hard was the hit? Pretty hard. It was like. What was the position of the body? I was on top.

And you said, patah. And I went, whack. What made you want to do that? Don't you have intrusive thoughts? That you're like, what if I did this? And then sometimes you just do it. Did it break his flow or did he keep striking? Listen, it was a wrap. It was a wrap.

It was not great. It was shocking. Oh, man. Well, Sam, we have arrived at the end. Thank you for letting me be so unhinged. I mean... I was be so unhinged. I mean... I was a bit unhinged. I will say, I think I... I think you met me halfway.

Like, I think I give you the space to be however you want. And I think it was... I don't think you were unhinged. I found you to be so lovely. Sam, do you have anything you want to promote? Yes, I have two shows. I have been hosting a show with my dear friends, Zach Stafford and Saeed Jones for a few years. It's a weekly newsy culture chat fest called Vibe Check.

Drops every Wednesday. It's from Sirius. It was named one of the New York Times best podcasts of 2022. Quite proud of it. So check us out. We go deep on all the things. As we say in our tagline,

it's your favorite group chat come to life. But besides that, I've launched a new show that I'm going to casually on a camera invite you on. It's called The Sam Sanders Show. I'll do it. Yay! It is my newest show that I'm producing in partnership with KCRW,

my favorite radio station in the world. We're doing this show every week. It's me in conversation with creatives we love, about the culture we love, and it's on the radio here in LA. It's in podcast feeds, and it's also my first ever YouTube series. Ooh, look at you! Full YouTube, baby.

So whenever you're ready, come on down to Santa Monica. I'll go. Oh. This is the thing. Booking is so hard for this show, because we're like, yeah, you need to be in Santa Monica Thursday morning at 10. I'll go. Oh. This is the thing. Booking is so hard for this show because we're like, yeah, you need to be in Santa Monica Thursday morning at 10. Oh, I'm sorry, babe. I'll never do it.

I know. I know. Thursday, 10 a.m., do you send a car? We could. No. I'll still be late to that car. Is it live? We tape it, cut it, produce it, and push it out the next morning.

So why are you recording it so early? They do a really intricate, nice edit of it. We also got to figure out what can go on the radio and what can only go on video. So our first episode, our first two episodes were Joel Kim Booster and Sasheer Zameda, your friend, our friend. And Joel talked at length about his full frontal scene

in this season of industry. It was so many dicks on the mic. It could only go on video. It couldn't go on the radio. Sure, I get that. So we spent a lot of time parsing. I wonder if I would show my bottom on camera. Oh, I would.

I think I'd show my bottom before my titties. And I'm pretty sure I've said that on this podcast before. Anywho, show is there. We'll get Nicole on there at some point. I'll come pick you up. What if I picked you up? That means you're picking me up at like 9 a.m. No, 6 a.m. to beat traffic. I would walk right into traffic. Um, that is so early.

So she came on down? I know, but she wakes up early now. She's shifted. She's shifted. She's shifted. She's like sleeping earlier and I'm like, what is this? I have thoughts at 3 a.m. She's no longer awake. I know. Sam, would you date me?

Honestly, the ideal relationship through which to raise children would be a gay man and a woman coming together to love the babies. Separate bedrooms. We just coexist happily. What? You can fuck whoever you want. I can fuck a gay man and a woman coming together to love the babies, separate bedrooms. We just coexist happily. What? You can fuck whoever you want, I can fuck whoever I want. Why don't you wanna be in a loving relationship as you raise a child together?

Oh, I'll have that too, just not in the house. Wait, do you not wanna live with a partner? Are you like Whoopi Goldberg? I think I'm Whoopi Goldberg. I realized after this last breakup, I was like, it might just be that I wanna live alone. And you can do that. You can be in a relationship with someone and live alone.

I think Harold Burton, what's his name? Who did Batman? Harold Burton. Tim. Yes, Tim. Thank you. Tim Burton. And now I'm imagining Harold Burton's knockoff Batman. So Tim Burton and the woman that he was married to do you know her?

She's got the hair Yeah, she's in the fight club. Oh, oh, oh three names three names three names Yes, on the bottom card, yes, yes Three names. Da ba da, da ba da. Helena Bonham Carter. Yes. Helena Bonham Carter. Yes, so they used to, I think this is what I read, they had two houses with a tunnel under. Call me Helena. That connected the two.

Call me her. And I was like, that's kind of cool, I like that. Like the closest I want a man that I'm dating to be is like on the other half of the duplex. Okay. But even then. But I think like two duplexes where you like have dinner at each other.

Right? And you sleep in, I don't know, I like sharing a bed. I thought I did, then I realized I move a lot as I sleep and most men snore. Ah, I do move a lot when I sleep. I'm having a great time. Sometimes I go to sleep vertical and wake up horizontal or diagonal.

Today I woke up diagonal. You're a sundialer. Sundials move over the course of the hours. I'm a sundialer. You're a sundialer. Oh my goodness. I like that. Yeah, that's nice.

But when I do like share my bed with someone, I sleep on the edge of the bed for fear of, I don't know. Don't make yourself small for any man. That's your bed. That is my bed. That's your bed. Even if it's at his home, that's my bed. And if he wants to have more space in your bed,

he's going to have to ask mommy nicely. Ask mommy for more space, daddy. Well, Sam, thank you so much for being here. This is whoever in my life is is gonna reach out about my relationship chatter that I had on this show, don't. LOL, don't do it. Well, if you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me, you can like it, you can rate it, you can subscribe,

give me five stars on Apple Podcasts. If you write me something nasty hitting on me to whywon'tudatemepodcasts.gmail.com, it will get printed out and I'll read it. Okay, I'll do this one. Love you all and the show. Thank you for bringing joy into the world and for sharing yourselves with us.

You're on the set for the next Sonic for a special guest appearance. I like this already. Sonic is jumping through rings, flies through the air, and lands into your open arms and yells, nailed it. He jumps out of your arms and you start to faint and you're caught by none other than a recently divorced Vin Diesel.

He asks you in a sultry, buttery voice, are you all right there, beautiful? Causing you to swoon even more. The director yells, cut, that's a wrap. By your diesel, great work. You both get bonuses. You and Vin high five, this is so funny because I thought this was like real, but I'm in a movie.

Right? Is it ad copy? What is it? I don't know. So you and Vin are high five out of excitement and he holds onto your hand. Wanna ride in my Subaru? Yes! That's wild.

He drives you off to his mansion in Syracuse, New York, and does unspeakable things to you, becoming the next love of his life. Honestly, I like it. Sometimes people will put Sonic in sexual situations, but Sonic is a child. Wait, is Sonic a child? Yes.

Okay. In the movies, he's like a teen. Oh, I've never seen a Sonic the Hedgehog movie. Well, don't talk to me about that. I love Sonic. I love the game. Why haven't you seen the movies? They're really incredible. Do I need to see the movies?

I would say yes. All right. I cried three times watching the first one. In the Sonic movie? Yes. And the second one, I went on a date to see the second one. You took a, okay.

And I made this man watch the first one. It took us three nights because he kept falling asleep. And I would pause it and be like, well, pick up where we left off. So then we went and saw the second one in theaters and he said it was me and another 10 year old having the time of our lives. It was just like the two of us were just like, ah! I love it. I love it. I love Sonic. It's a great movie. Wait, if I pick you up to bring you on my show and take you to Santa Monica, if I have

an iPad with Sonic the movie queued up, will you ride? I am not a child and you cannot placate me that way. I am a grown ass adult. I can watch Sonic whenever I want. That is true. I don't need your iPad. That is true. Okay.

I have Paramount Plus. Mommy's independent. Mommy's independent and she don't need no daddy's iPad. Boom. Boom. Bye. Boom. Bye. Bye. You've been listening to Why Won't You Date Me with me, Nicole Byer.

This show is produced and edited by Mars with executive producer Anya Kenovskaya. It's engineered by Casey Donahue with guest research by Lindsay Kemp. Our VP of content at Headgum is Katie Moose and our Thief music is arranged by Mike Cometay. Ah, thanks for listening! We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. See you then! Okay, bye bye! That was a Headgum Podcast.