Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Second Puberty (w/ Carter Ray)

Episode Date: October 8, 2021

Filmmaker Carter Ray (The Change Up) chats with Nicole about their experience going through a 2nd puberty while on hormones, the challenges they faced coming out while attending a Christian high school, and the difference in dating women as a lesbian vs as a trans man. Carter shares his goal to reshape the representation of trans people seen on-screen.Black Lives Matter. Click here for a list of over 100 different ways you can support racial justice.Follow Nicole Byer: Tour Dates: linktr.ee/nicolebyerwastakenTwitter: @nicolebyerInstagram: @nicolebyerNew Merch Store! podswag.com/datemeNicole's book: indiebound.org/book/9781524850746 

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why! Ooh, baby, welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me, a podcast where me, Nicole Byer, tries to figure out how I'm still a single. Even though you could open every LaCroix in my refrigerator, fill it with cum, put it back in, seal the top and say, hey, hey, hey, that's the new flavor.

My guest today. What did that come from? I feel insane today. My guest is an actor, filmmaker, musician, your local trans boy in West Hollywood. It's Carter Ray. Woo woo, what's up? Carter, thank you so much for doing this. Oh my gosh.

How are you? I'm so excited to be here. I've been looking forward to this since we spoke about it. Truly. The longest time. The longest time. Like what's even happened between then? I don't know.

I mean, scheduling has been a fucking bitch. It's just wild. You know, 2020. Wait, 2020. Where are we? Oh my God. We're in 2021. Life is life is hard wait when did i met you so oh wait i met you earlier this year yeah at gg's party yeah yeah where i knocked down

she had a barbie display case and uh got photos of that yes well there was an open bar so what were they what were they thinking i don't know a gal she's got a drink you know have a nice time um so when did you get into like filmmaking because I watched your short I had it oh cool what is the name of it the change up the change up um when did you shoot that I shot that um literally right before the pandemic, like really like our shutdown first happened. So literally in 2019, like the very end of 2019, leading into 2020, shot it. And then like I had that, we can go into that too, but I had that going on for like five years. I was in process with getting it started because that was my first thing I've ever made.

My first film I've ever done. So it was like my baby. So I really was super excited. I was like, man, I'm finally getting this finished. I had a really big motivation to get it done at the time for a specific purpose. And then the shutdown happened. And of course, I'm like, shit, I just filmed this whole thing that I spent all this money on. And that is my passion project that I just want people to see.

And now the shutdown happened. And then I was just like stuck with it for a while. And I was like, you know what, we'll put this into festivals and see how it does. And it did really well. And I'm really proud of it. And I kind of was able to use, you know, the power of, um, uh, social media and able to kind of have people share it and then kind of get the viewings from there. So that was really exciting to see too. Just like, you know, I'll just use my network versus like putting it into like these big like festival shows. I mean, it ended up going to festivals, but they were more mainly virtual at the time, which was kind of a bummer because you want to like actually go in person and see it for the first time on the big screen and everything.

And I wasn't really able to do that until later later on and then finally after like it's been in all these festivals I was able to finally see it on the big screen so I love that so did you you directed that you wrote and directed this I wrote it I um helped produce it with my producer who's amazing her name's Rachel well actually geez her last name's changed she got married um she uh she's a really good friend of mine and she was with me through the whole process um her and I put it together and then yeah I acted in it as well um my friend Jordan helped uh she actually directed it so it was um yeah I needed a director at the time because it was my first film I ever done um and I kind of wanted you know sometimes

when you have a vision for something you're so like you have this tunnel vision you only see one way but then I realized when I was moving along in the process that bringing in a director who was going to actually like see me and help focus on my character and my scene and like everything I can really then look outside of that at first I was like I don't want to hear anyone's opinions on what their input is on my film because it's my shit you know it's my baby but then I realized like oh my god like that makes more sense and I didn't even think about that because I was so like locked in on something. And it actually really helped elevate the film. And I felt like I'm really glad I brought Jordan on to help me just because she really helped see outside of those, that vision.

So, yeah, I mean, I feel you on that. I just shot a special for Netflix. I can't wait for it to come out. I don't know. I don't have an air date, but I'm very excited. But I had like a little bit of tunnel vision where I was like, no, this is what's happening. No, that's what's happening. And like the things I stuck to my guns about, I was like, okay, those did turn out good. And like, nobody had to say, Nicole, I told you so. But like,

it is a give and take. You have to like also go with your gut. You're like, no, like this is, I'm not willing to let this part of it go because that just doesn't make sense like i there was people along the way along the process you know because you get so excited about your stories and you're just like sharing them and you like want people to like hear what you're doing and people want to hear what you know you want to hear what other people are doing too and then you kind of like well what about this and like honestly like you have to take things with a grain of salt like sometimes people might not have the best interest of the story and that's okay you could just like be like oh you know like didn't think about that like let me marinate on it and then you can you know you could pick what you want to do

and so i think that those are things like you have to stick with like your main things that you really want your main points you want to get across the main things you want to keep within the show or within the story and the things that you're not willing to let go of but also you can maybe okay yeah that actually that makes sense though and like you know you could yeah you know you have to pick that and exactly go with your instinct on it for sure. Yeah. You gotta fucking choose your dang battles. exactly.

There's a couple of things where I was just like, uh-huh. Yeah. Yes, I will do this. And there's a couple of things where I think they were like, fine, we will let her do this and we won't bump up against it.

We're not winning this battle against Nicole. She's gonna. Yeah. Well, one of my battles was like, I wanted a leopard print carpet and then I was wearing leopard print shoes and everyone was like, they're just gonna bleed into each other. That's a, we need a little bit of contrast.

And then- I'm the leopard. No, no, I am. I'm a leopard. Yeah, I'm a leopard princess, bitch, get over here. I wore two different shoes for the for the like a camera test and then everyone was like the leopard print shoes pop and i was like yes because i know what i'm doing my stylist knows what he's doing marco monroe shout out to him he's

so fucking incredible i love him so much love that uh as a trans person as a trans mom oh my god you're outing me imagine i did that that would be so rude and then i didn't edit it out i'm like hey i'm gonna have to cut that out and then i like airs i'm like yo it'll be so fucked up uh but was that like so that's what your short is about so yeah i mean i really i mean to be honest like i i started writing this short film five years ago um i wrote it i was in a really toxic um marriage uh and i put my acting on on hold for a very long time and um my life kind of became consumed around somebody and i think that relationship that i had um was at the time i was as a trans person you know society is like

well who do you date like who dates trans people and that to me coming from a very conservative background that i had um really scared me and i think too in media um the only trans people or trans storylines i saw um was uh you know boys don't cry which if you haven't seen it uh you know it shows a trans man being you know uh getting assaulted and you know having a really rough life and it's a really uh you know getting raped and that to me was almost in a way traumatizing because it's like oh my gosh is that my life if I choose yes you know if I if I go through with my with my heart and I do what I feel is going to make me feel best am I going to live a life of sadness and all like all these things and so after my transition went on I started to love myself

more and more um I I realized like oh God, like I want to make a difference for young kids, you know, to, or anyone, honestly, anyone to see that like you can have success and you can have love. And, you know, for me, it was really important to write a story about that. And I held off this film for a long time because of the relationship I was in. And I just had no, I was consumed at the time. And I really put my career on the back burner. When we ended up getting divorced, I was like, you know what? I have to make this film. At the time too, it was like, I kind of had that feeling of like, is anyone going to truly accept me?

Like, is this, am I going to be treated well? Am I going to, you know, on all these things? And I actually was like, I have to do it. I have to, because I know it might not be now, but I know I will find that person. I have to do it. I have to, because I know it might not be now, but I know I will find that person. And I know like, I want to showcase that, like that is possible because as trans people, we are valued and we're loved. And I ended up doing the film and it did really well. And I was so happy with it. And it actually was a really big healing process for me. Um, and yeah, you know, the stories about, you know, young, uh, you know, a guy coaching softball meets a girl

really vibes with her and you know she she she thinks he's being sketchy and he's like either at the bar and he's you know he's like talking to this other girl who actually just knows him from his past and he gets scared that you know she's going to be outed it's a really cool and then you find out later on about like self-love and self-acceptance and i i just want to display that without being I think in media right now something that bothers me so much is the coming out story and the sad story and trans people are just

sad and depressed and confused I want to show fucking trans women in positions of power, I want to show trans men just being fucking badasses, those are the things i want to do and you know that's i think right now the frustration with uh acting as a trans actor

right like for me like okay so me and my manager like do we do we promote do we like advertise that i'm a trans actor like no like i'm a fucking actor like put me put me but but then of course what happens is and i go in as just you know i have the role comes in for just like your your like heartthrob you know motorcycle gang boy whatever and then like i go out for it and they're like dude this dude this dude can act this dude can do it then they go to look you up on social media and they're like oh shit wait a second fuck um he's trans i'm like listen like it is a weird thing where it doesn't fucking matter right but then people make it matter it is such a bizarre thing it's so weird i think because also too like castings like no like you know you have the hot show going on they want like the guys that you

know the girls are gonna like fangirl over but i'm like they will still fangirl over trans men trust me like it's not like it it's almost like let's not make it a thing because it's just a normal fucking thing like if whatever like you know yeah i think it's just a lot of people have their own biases and their own inherent thoughts that they're like oh no that's all people are going to talk about that's all people are going to think about when they see this character they won't see the actual character for them if i watch something and i know the person's trans i don't ever think i'm not it's not in the forefront of my mind people it's not in the forefront of a lot of people's minds it is such a strange thing that we think about people's like sexual orientation or whatever their gender identity is but like when it's acting i don't like when it's anything

honestly i don't fucking care exactly exactly it's just like i just want to change that and i want to you know in in hopes you know make someone who how i who used to feel the way i used to you know when i i grew up in a very conservative christian home and that was very difficult for my family very conservative Christian home. And that was very difficult for my family. And, you know, it's like, it's like, because they didn't have the resources, you know, I think I was in a very small town. So everyone knew who I was. Everyone knew my mom, my dad's, you know, the leader of Bible study at the, one of the biggest churches in the town. And my mom's, you know, a teacher in the school district. So everyone knew knew my family and it was just like my my mom didn't have any idea what that meant you know when i came out as trans my mom was like

so you just like you like want to like like be a butch lesbian and have a dick and i'm like no that is whoa did your mother say that out loud literally yes she did out loud i mean let me i'll put on record my my mother now oh my god it's crazy this is important because like my mom seeing her from where she was when i first came out and the the the ignorance and the lack of education on what that meant and like the unawareness just like is so different now like my mother now is like the most supportive person. She absolutely loves me fully. Like I don't remember the last time she's ever called me that, you know, my dead name. I don't even like to say dead name, to be honest, but my, you know, previous name, I guess.

Just like she adores my fiance and like they just have an incredible relationship. And just like seeing that like change i'm like there is like there is change and i realized too when i first came out and i think at first i was so angry like why can't my family be as accepting as these people you know why can't they be this why can't they be that i'm like because they're not and you know i realized too then i'm not the only one transitioning you know like when i realized that I'm like dang like my mom you know has like you know unfortunately like of course like it doesn't matter like they have a thought of you you change and that's just who you are but like my mom had no resources at the time

and I think that that really was what kind of damaged it you know but now that like things are being talked about more and more and you know I go you know the reason why I wanted to film to bring that to the surface and hopefully a young kid can show their parent my film and be like hey like this is what it means to be trans and like this is what you know or I mean there's not just one way to be trans but like you know what I mean like this is you know what how I feel and it's a better way to explain it versus showing them a film of trans people getting like murdered and raped and you know what i'm saying like positive stories and that's that's what i really care about doing so yeah i watched this documentary disclosure on netflix that i thought was like pretty informative and if you're looking for like a resource that is helpful because i don't think that it's trans

people's responsibilities to educate everybody. Yes. But like they do the work in this documentary and it is fully. It's great. Insane and incredible. Isn't it crazy how the media has shaped the way people think and that's it. It's, you know,

there's so many stories about trans people in like these awful situations where it's like, what about the trans person who comes out and the parents are like great we love it we don't give a shit and then they have you know some sort of trial or tribulation in any other aspect of their life that has nothing to do with what their gender identity is right right it's like it's i mean black being black is obviously different but like it's like a lot of black people were depicted in films and television as drug dealers, this, that, and the other, or low income and poverty. And then the 80s boom of like upperly mobile middle class people, like a different world.

I read, I don't know how true this is because I didn't do the actual research and I saw it and I said, I'll take it. It's new information. And I'm educated on it. But more black people enrolled in college after a different world was on the air. And it's like, yeah, television fucking influences people. Of course.

You know? Oh my gosh. Yeah, of course. I mean, if the only experience someone has of a certain, you know, categorized group,

it's like, that's their experience because that's all that they've encountered in their life because that's what they see. If you live in middle America and that's the only time on tv that you see either um you know a person of color or you see um you know a trans person like that is gonna be now oh so that's how they are and it's like no like let's fucking change that shit so yeah it's so wild that people don't even understand that when they are putting shit on the air it's kind of like if you only watch fox news you're gonna regurgitate everything you

exactly on fox news same thing with like cnn because all of our news is fucking biased which is truly incredible but yeah it's just like i don't understand why like things just haven't evolved and changed like i cannot like i think the L word currently has some trans characters played by trans people yeah my good friend is on there Brian he plays a character on there I still have yet to see the newer one

but the old one you know Daniela C I believe was I think non-binary and then trans later on I don't remember the storyline that was the first time I actually you know I think non-binary and then trans later on. I don't remember the storyline. That was the first time I actually, you know, that one. And of course, the Boys Don't Cry was that was a summer I really realized, like, oh, my God, like, is this who I am?

Like, it was such like a it was such a moment where I spent one summer just on the computer researching. Can a boy or sorry, can a girl become a boy? Like, does that happen? And then, like, all this shit, like, just, like, holy shit. And that was, like, my realization. And it was just, like, it was crazy, though. And then, of course, you see then, same thing. You see Max on that show going through, you know,

he's very angry and he's very, like, aggressive. And I'm, like, holy fuck, is that what hormones do to me? And I'm, like, no, Is that what hormones do to me? And I'm like, no, it just makes me fucking hairy everywhere. What was your experience getting on hormones? It's actually very interesting. Um,

I went to a Christian school. My graduating class was of 30 people. Uh, super small. Yeah. Everyone knew who everyone was. Yeah. Oh,

that's truly wild. You know, I still had long hair at the time. And I was, you know, I was in high school. And you couldn't go to that school if you were gay. You would get kicked out. So I had a relationship going on with one of my friends, you know, that I had told some friends about at the time. This is the first girl I had ever been with.

And I had told my friends about it in detail because this was like my first like crush at the time. They told my one of my friends told the the school principal. So I get a call to come into the office and I'm like, OK, so I come in and they asked me if this is true. And I was like, absolutely not true. Just because I knew the repercussions of it. like absolutely not true um just because i knew the repercussions of it me and my friend who i was hooking up with uh we're you know driving home uh to my house because we were best friends

and that was like we were having like a sleepover and so um my parents are in the backyard and call us both back there they're like so we got a call from the school today, um, said that you two are having sexual relationships. And I was like, so uncomfortable. I was like, like, and then I'm like looking and like, like there's,

let me, let me just say like, I was terrified of her at the time. I was like, no, not true. Not true. She leaves,

um, tells me I have to go back to school and tell everyone it was all a lie. So I go back to my friends, tell everyone it was all fucking bullshit and that it never happened. at that point like I just kind of went with that for the remaining of my senior year I just denied everything and everyone thought I was like made up this whole elaborate crazy story and that really sucked because I was telling the truth and at the time it broke up some friendships of mine because they literally thought I was like crazy just like a liar yeah just a liar and then when I graduated and I started you know eventually I messaged my really

good um friend at the time that you know was like what the fuck and was like she was like no like I now that you tell me the story totally all makes sense now like because you know and I was like yeah and then I had told my friend I was like you know I I it's weird though because I never like came out and i never came out as like a lesbian because like i never felt like a lesbian like i i felt like the like society put that like label to me because like i liked girls and i you know like of course like so like yeah and i i was like okay i guess that's what i am so you know i did that but then i whenever i was like out and about and I would I eventually cut

my hair and I just felt like I looked like a little tiny boy like everyone thought at the time I looked like Justin Bieber like I had the long swoop haircut and I like would wear the big glasses like I would just like like play that up so hard and I but the thing is is like I liked that and I it made me feel good and I would go to restaurants and you know they thought they were misgendering me because they were calling me he but I was like go to restaurants and you know they thought they were misgendering me because they were calling me he but I was like but at the time you know I was like I was like no like I was like like it made me feel good and I was like why do I feel that so hard and then I just would like it would just be like little things and then I was like you know I and then

I was like that's when I then saw the show um the L word and I saw you know boys don't cry and I was like I this is this is me I started doing some research so getting on hormones, you know, boys don't cry. And I was like, I, this is, this is me. I started doing some research. So getting on hormones was, you know, interesting because, um, I was under my parents' insurance at the time and, uh, I had Kaiser and they actually cover, um, well, at least for my, I don't know how it is now. Um, so I can't speak on that at the time they covered my hormones. And, uh, so I went and I was 18, so I didn't need any permission, you know, but, um, I went in and I was, you know, I had a car at the time. So I was going to my appointments. I wasn't telling my parents. Um, and I knew that that was something I had to do. And I ended up telling my parents, um, that I was going to go on hormones. And they, what happened is they were like, absolutely not. Like, not under our roof. That's not going to happen. And I kind of was like, well, you can't stop me.

So I ended up going to the appointment anyways and doing it. And I had my best friend was there with me. And I kind of knew, like, changes. I wasn't just going to, like, go to the doctor, come home, and, like, have, like, you know, this, like, shredded body. But is that the expectation? I wasn't just going to like go to the doctor, come home and like have like, you know, this like shredded body expectation. Is it like I'm going to go one time and everything's going to change? I think like for me, I was so excited for that. And I was so like, that's another thing to like what I'm like, what woman wants a fucking full facial beard? Like I like like that.

Those are things that made me think like, OK okay I clearly am like I am a man I need like these things are like that I just look in the mirror not feel the way I felt like was right but it wasn't because I like like I wasn't in shape or I felt like you know all these like things that are so fucking stupid that like society puts into us of course but I was like it's more than that it's not just like it's like my like my body parts like my like you know like those don't add up to me like i want to see this in the mirror not this like feminineness you know so and i i think the expectation for sure like for me i was like okay i'm gonna like you take one shot of tea and then i'm gonna like be a fucking like i'm gonna be the hulk like you know that's not and that's the thing too is i always you know when a lot of you know younger people like be a fucking, like I'm going to be the Hulk. Like, you know, that's not,

and that's the thing too, is I always, you know, when a lot of, you know, younger people be like, so what should I like, what are advice that you would give me? I'm like, honestly, like just be you. And like, don't, when it comes to like actual physical changes,

I think that's hard because that's an, that's the outer thing. That's a, that's the thing that people judge you first off of, right? Yeah. And of course, like you as yourself, you want to feel good, but like, it's just like, a thing that people judge you first off of right yeah and of course like you as yourself you want to feel good but like it's just like i just tell people like don't expect things just let them happen and that way when they do happen like it's all the more like like greater i guess like you know it's like i'd be like oh like i'd be walking in the mirror but

oh shit like i actually have like my beard like it's coming in you know and then like things like like little things would happen and like your voice would start to drop and things like that and like everyone's different like not everyone has the same changes and that's okay it doesn't make you any less of a man any less or you know of a woman or whatever it is that you identify as like it's just you and i think that that's something that like if we take gender out of it like i i just am a person with a beard and you know cool like you know like that's just me and and sometimes I don't like sometimes I have to shave it and that's okay too you know what I mean but I think that the expectations with hormones um it can get it can get hard you

know when you're starting your transition because you want to see results right away and you've been waiting so long to get to that point and you finally do and but now it's you it's going to keep being a process and then I I had a top surgery very shortly after very shortly after I started hormones so that really helped me that was something that I felt like I really needed for myself and that helped me tremendously yeah I think it's good to think of hormones as like it's like literal puberty because I mean i truly went to school once and i was like whoa everybody got titties what about me what's not gonna happen when am i gonna get my titties and i'm still waiting my favorites like when my my brothers are like what the hell dude like you have a better beard than i do and i'm like well listen bro i'm like i had to go through two

puberties to get this beard. So mine better be better. Oh, I didn't know you had two brothers. How did your brothers react to your... I have two brothers and I have a little sister. So I think something that was really hard for my whole family and what really kind of like... It was like, I think it needed to happen. But so like I said, I took the hormones and I was just like, I'm taking hormones. There's nothing you can do. But I knew I really wanted top surgery.

And I also knew that my insurance was going to cover it, that I was under with my dad. So I scheduled that appointment without him even knowing. And they literally told me that my dad was like, if you have any surgery like under a roof, like that's the last straw, like da-da-da at the time. And like I said, my family now is like literally has done a complete 180 and i they are insanely like i'm so lucky to have them um i just love that you had the forefront to just be like i'm just gonna do this stuff on the insurance because it's not like the insurance is like gonna call you to be like hey did you schedule this surgery um are you just checking in is this you they're just like oh no obviously you know what you want to do so go ahead and fucking do it and i knew okay like surgery like what are they gonna what's my dad

gonna make me do go return my titties like imagine you had to walk back to the fucking surgeon and be like excuse me i need them titties back like i'm sure they're in a jar back there somewhere but i need them back on so i literally was like i so I scheduled my appointment and then like I literally told my parents I was going on vacation with my friend and so like you know we're like in college and I'm like I write them a letter I put it under my mattress and I literally like go I'm on the hospital bed and my my my best friend Kinsey was like, um, should I text your mom now? Like, do you want me to? And I'm like, no, wait till I'm literally waking up. Like, I don't want any chances of them just like making a phone call to the insurance or whatever. Like, no.

So she's like, okay. So I wake up and then I ended up texting my, my family that there's a letter for them under the bed. And the letter literally was like, by the time you read this, like I've already made my decision. Like I've had surgery, like explaining to them I'm not on vacation but I felt like this was my only option to be able to do this because like without insurance it's like so it's expensive to have so I'm like there's I have I had to do at the time what I felt like I had to do and I know most people would think that that was like wrong or whatever but like for me and i think that that's what really hurt my parents was like they felt lied to and like i do understand that like because i fucking lied to them um yeah you absolutely lied you said i'm going on vacation and you are not on vacation bitches i'm gonna come back with no titties

your titties went on vacation hot girl summer just kidding hot boy summer I don't know um so I ended up like that really like drove like was really hard um I came home like literally wrapped up like literally waddling inside my you know home and my mom my mom had just gotten back from a mission trip in africa um and so i walked in and i i i'm like i just told my mom like i looked at her and she looked at me and she was just like she like didn't say anything so i went inside and i showered and i came out and i like looked at my mom and i'm gonna cry because it's like sorry we're getting like this is like supposed to be funny and I'm like just like crying no she's just like she was like for the first time like I told her I said the first time in my life I looked in the mirror

and I saw someone who I loved I saw someone who I was proud of and I saw somebody that I valued and my own mother is telling me that she's disappointed in me. And I was just like, I'm disappointed in you, you know? And, and that was a moment for her. You said that out loud to her? Yeah.

Yeah. I said it to her. I got to say that is an incredible way to articulate your feelings because it was like succinct and it like, yeah, that's it. That's like everything you needed to say it was and I think for my mom you know like I she looked at me and she was like kind of like I think it was

a moment for her like oh my god like my kid just had surgery like on their own didn't tell anyone like this is not like going away like this is not like a phase and I think you know there was still you know it still took my siblings after that Cause they felt the same way that my parents did, you know, like I was like the outlaw of all of us, you know? And so like, it was just like, and then I think now it's just crazy to see the change because I think now they've, now that they have allowed themselves to have that open mind and like, be like, no, that's, that's just Carter. Like, like that like like that's our brother like you know and it's never now like i mean after that like transitional period um now i think they've seen how happy i am and how different i am and how like i used to be i used to always be kind of like

wild and crazy but it was in a way where i was like using it to like cover up like my myself and my shit you know and like i think that now they're like nah like carter's just himself like he's just crazy now and like it makes sense and they see like how happy i am in my everyday life and they see me do you know making films and acting and music and i think that was that says it all that like you know it's just like you this is you and i have to really give that to them um you know people a lot of people like no like they should have been from right away and i'm like you know what it's it's it's it's it's okay and i think in a sense we got to this point i think in where people just like people can't accept like someone just someone actually growing and changing versus like you know like they should have been that from the jump it's like well not everyone's experiences are the same and so you don't know like the things that they've been exposed to and haven't like if they're willing to learn

and like that's dope like why don't we just be oh you know to that it is i mean i personally think it's okay to have one opinion and then change your fucking opinion when you get a little education or grow or become an adult like exactly i said 10 years ago doesn't hold up now? Should I have said last week has changed today? Real quick, we gotta take a break. Yes. And we're back. So I do, you did

touch a little bit on dating. Yeah. Shorts about dating. Let's talk about it let's get juicy is was date is date was well you're unfianced you're engaged right now yeah yeah but in the single days was it hard to date because i talked to patty harrison about it and she was saying like on apps it's a little hard to navigate like who's in it because they're interested or fetishizing or like whatever it's very interesting so also i am a very open book so we'll just go with that so you guys okay so i love the juicy stories so um no i um dating is so interesting i think because

um for me you know when i first started you know before my transition uh, you know, when I first started, you know, before my transition, dating, you know, women as a lesbian. And I felt like I'm not I'm not trying to be like, oh, like I'm this and that. Like I feel like so many girls like flocked to me then. Like even even honestly, even a bunch of straight girls. But and I was like, oh, like, I'm like, OK, cool. This is easy. This is dope. Like, you know,

whatever. As my transition went, you know, progressed, I, um, noticed I didn't, I mean,

like, I felt like women still like would flirt with me, but I feel felt like, but then it was more so as my transition, when I was further in my transition, I was like, did I get ugly? Cause I feel like,

what the fuck? Like this was supposed to make me feel better. And it's not, but, um, I kind of, I was further in my transition I was like did I get ugly because I feel like what the fuck like this is supposed to make me feel better but um I kind of my friend actually pointed out something very interesting to me it was like you know what it probably was was like you know why the straight girls like would always flirt with you when you were a lesbian I'm like yeah they're like well that's because you were a girl so they felt comfortable enough to like approach you they felt safe yeah like almost like it wasn't like a you know like well it's a girl, so they felt comfortable enough to like approach you. They felt safe. Yeah. Like almost like it,

it wasn't like a, you know, like, well, it's a girl, like, like you're a girl. So I can like,

I could like, um, hit on you first, you know, they can make the first move because it was like, fine, you know, but when you're a dude,

like, you know, in society, like, you know, the guy normally, you know, makes the first move.

So they're not going to tell you those things, which is, I'm like, whatever. But then I was i was like oh that's really interesting i never thought about that but i think on the apps like for me when i first started dating as a trans guy i always wondered do i put it on my profile or do i not because then it was like okay i can either put it on my profile and if you choose to talk to me then dope you already are cool because like you don't give a fuck about that and i don't have to explain it to you or is it like no do i just let them get to know me first and then tell them but then there's this other whole thing and i'm like so i would

always put it first because like i don't want to waste my fucking time i don't got time to like talk to like anyone who's not like cool with me being trans you know like that just seems like anyone who's not like cool with me being trans you know like that just seems like pointless but i also get people why they wouldn't want to put it on their profile because they either have you know it's either out of safety or yeah it is kind of like scary to think about because it's like you don't know somebody's ulterior motives if they take you out if they do have like you know nefarious fucking thoughts or whatever right and there's always there's a bunch of chasers out there too so like yeah i um it was it's just crazy and i think um i mean i i'm i know all trans people have it in that way but like trans women really get it um you know i went out the other night uh it was an all uh trans woman night at a one of at um at

a club in north hollywood and was really fucking cool. I had so much fun. I met some amazing people. But on the back patio, literally, I'm sitting there talking to my friend who is a trans woman. And we're just having a conversation. But of course, it was funny because when I first got to the club, my good friend Taryn Balenciaga, I don't know if you know who she is. She's amazing. She's in video she um was wanted wanted to introduce me to all her friends so I met all her friends and I was like I'm gonna buy everyone drinks so like I bring all the girls to the bar and they were kind of being weird with me and I kind of was like I kind of was like okay like that's fine like they don't know me you know I'm just meeting them like whatever and we're starting

and then we take them on the you know we go out the back patio and we're all talking and then in conversation like whatever we were talking about me me being trans came up and they're all were like oh my god we thought you were a chaser i'm like shut up and then it just became this thing of like, you know, but it was funny. So, but yeah, like, I think it's, that was also too for me, like, who do I date? Like, do I date? And I'm like, no, you know, I date women who like men because that's what I am. After my divorce, I really took time to get to know myself. I really took time to learn.

How long did that take? Listen, it's still going. I'm still learning myself every day. No, but I think the healing part, it surprisingly like it took a while, but it also went by fast if that makes sense because I was really like focused truly on me. I wasn't dating around.

I wasn't like it was really, and it was honestly really needed. It was just like self-love was so important to me. And I think when you have self-love when it comes to dating, like that stuff kind of goes away. Like I, and then I started to date again, you know, I started, you know, I met my fiance and I, that stuff really went away for me because it was like, I don't, it doesn't matter. Labels get like those things like kind of disappear.

Cause you're like, this is just me. And if you vibe with me and I vibe with you and you know this about me and I know this about you and we're good, like that kind of all just like went away from me. And, um, also to my fiance is an incredible photographer in West Hollywood. And she, um, she actually a funny story about you. Um, she, she and I met on, uh, she found me on tiktok and asked to shoot me um and uh so we met on set um and um it was kind of weird because we met in like a professional setting so i didn't know if i could like quick so you were taking a break from dating finding your or like you know

discovering things about yourself and then the first person you meet is your fiancee? Yeah. Wow. Wow. Some people are lucky. I know. I mean, there was a few people that I would, like, talk to, like, via, like, text, but it wasn't, I never, like, went on dates or, like, anything like that, you know? It was just, like, kind of something to, like, pass time by. But it wasn't anything serious,

and I think that's because I kind of was like, no, I'm, like, I truly am, like, doing good on my own. It wasn't anything serious. And I think that's because I kind of was like, no, I truly am doing good on my own. It wasn't anything consistent. So she had found me on TikTok, set up a shoot with me. We were shooting on set, realized that we had actually met two and a half years prior. She shot me on a red carpet event.

But you meet so many people on step and repeats on on the red carpet and stuff so like i did like at first like when i heard when i knew who she was when we did the shoot it didn't come to my head until we put the pieces together for the organization she worked with and then she went back and found the photo she took of me and it was like kind of really cool and it was just like we met in a professional setting so i was like do i flirt with you or do i not is that weird or can i do this or whatever so i i we ended up like subtly sending like little she would send me like a fire emoji to a photo that she took of me though so it was confusing as fuck because i was like okay like are you saying that because you like your art yeah what the hell like so it's just

like really like sublissinal like i just was was like trying to like, I did not, it was very confusing for a while. And then finally I was like, and then also too, I was scared. You know, it was like, I lost so much of who I was in my past relationship. Like do I let, and then it was honestly this weird thing. I think because I had that period of like growing, I was like, I am not going to allow the mistake of somebody like keep me from being with this person and like hold that against this person. It was actually hilarious.

So during quarantine, she would listen to this podcast all the time. And it may or may not have been this podcast. But let's just say that I knew your voice very well. And she would always talk about you. And at the time, I was so out of all of media. Because I was just, like I said, I took so much time to myself. And I was unfamiliar. I just knew your fucking voice. And literally, we're at Gigi's party.

And you and I are chatting. She comes over. And then you had mentioned me being on your podcast just from our conversation. And you had told me your name was Nicole. But I didn't like put two and two and shit together and I'm like what the fuck and so she comes over and then she's like talking and she's like I'm sorry like I just gotta say like I just love your podcast and I'm just like oh she just asked me to like to be on it like she wants me to be on it and then she like literally pulls me aside she goes babe that's Nicole Byle byer like like nicole

byer that i listen to every fucking day i'm like oh my god so i was like it was just like so funny and i was like that's so cool and then like it was funny i was like well now i know what your face looks like yes and my drug and now i can't get rid of you yeah my god that was so hung over the next day let me fucking tell you i mean i'm not not believing you i believe you love that um so when you were on apps did you i can't remember if you said that you put that you're trans or not i would i would and um honestly like it just helped me like wave out the like the shit people like I would get so many ignorant like messages on there. Like, so what do you got? You got a dick or do you got it?

I'm like, you'll never know because you're an asshole. Yeah, that's rude. I went out with a trans woman once and she was lovely. I didn't realize she was trans. And she at one point was like, uh, she's, what did she say? She was like,

I got misgendered at the gym today. So today was pretty hard. And I responded with, wow, that never happens to me. I just didn't put two and two together. And then, um,

she had, you know, larger feet. And I was like, you got big old dogs. And she was like, yes. And I was like,

I have big feet too. Here's like a good, um, uh, company. If you ever want to like, you know, buy heels or whatever. And then I was like yes and i was like i have big feet too here's like a good um uh company if you ever want to like you know buy heels or whatever and then i was like it like went well it was it like went pretty well but like also it was like a wonky date and then i was telling my therapist about it and i was like isn't it weird that she like got misgendered but like that happens to me on planes when i'm wearing like a hat and my therapist was like Nicole uh do you think maybe she was trans and I was like oh no I was like am I dumb and I think we went out to two more times maybe oh my gosh I don't know this was years ago uh but I yeah I mean it didn't bother me it doesn't bother me

I know I think about it in a way where it's like okay if i go out with like a person say a dude a dude assigned male at birth yeah and then you know see the genitalia and it doesn't match what was in my head it's the same thing yeah if it's not i'm not articulating this well exactly it doesn't really matter especially if you like vibe with the person right you know exactly exactly and that's the thing too like i think for me like it i think it used to be really hard for me to actually hang out with cisgender men because um it was just like they're fucking assholes and like they're just like or they're they're just like don't say things that make any fucking sense. So I'm like, I can't vibe. So I would hang out a lot of times with, you know, women.

And that's the other thing that was hard for me too with dating. Listen here. I was a fucking Girl Scout, bitch. Okay. I was in those fucking campers. I was in, I was a trooper for sure. So a lot of my friends, my close friends from childhood are women. And when it came to dating, my partners would be like,

you're going to go hang out with Brittany one-on-one. And I'm like, yeah, that's my homegirl. We've been literally best friends. We've had slumber parties since we were kids. And they're like, exactly. I'm like listen like those are my like i am allowed to have like relationships and friendships with women as a man like like i don't think that really connected like for instance it'd be like if i was dating somebody and i'm like okay i'm gonna go hang out you know with Brittany I miss her I haven't seen her in a while um just you two yeah that's what

we always do yeah like you know and it's like it would just make them uncomfortable and then I'm like well then that just comes down then to trust and then like but I don't think and then it'd be like well my boyfriend shouldn't be hanging out one-on-one with another girl do you know how dumb that makes me look and I'm like I think like that's hard too when it comes to dating um for some people because that is such a you know I'm not gonna just change who I hang out with and all the friends I've known for my whole entire life you know because I'm now a man and I can't have friendships with women like that's stupid you But that's why trust is so important when it comes to any relationship. Also, you preventing your boyfriend from not having female friends is not going to prevent him from cheating on you. Just so you know, sister.

He be going cheeky, he going cheeky, he going find it. It might not be his friend either no it might just be some random bitch you never know exactly that's the thing that's like so dumb i'm like okay so it just like and i think like me like my my fiance like she like i know i can do whatever the fuck i want like i i don't's crazy. Like when we first started dating, I'd be like, Hey, like,

is it cool if I go do that? And she's like, literally like looking at me, like, why are you asking me? Like, I'm like, because like,

I just want to make sure that's cool. She's like, why are you asking me? Like, you do not have to ask permission to do things. You go do whatever you want to do. I'm here and I'll tell you what I'm up to, but you just, you just tell me like you do not have to ask permission to do things you go do whatever you want to do i'm here and i'll tell you what i'm up to but you just you just tell me what you're doing like just like like let me know like you know like whatever you want to do you go and do

it you know like you don't gotta sit but i was so used to that type of behavior so i became like almost accustomed to like doing like having to like be super apologetic for things that i didn't have to be sorry for you know being being controlled like you know so like those are things too and that's why it's so important to be with someone that trusts you I understand yeah okay real quick we gotta take a break so this isn't quite about dating but I'm very curious to to know so you lived as a woman until you were 18 yeah transition to a man so you lived a good chunk as a woman so like what are do people obviously treat you different but like what are the biggest differences you saw

oh my god um male privilege is a fucking thing anyone who doesn't and is it fun do you love it i love it that's the only reason why i did this that's all i wanted baby let's go no i it's crazy i think even just in in the workspace even like you know um as you know I used to be a trainer um I used to even work at a restaurant and um just like the little things like I could be it's just the way that people listen to you it's crazy like I just get I'm taken more seriously and that's it's so crazy that it's so real and it's so like also too just like the way that i'm talked to by other people um uh the way i like i mean getting cat called as a woman like was like the most like weirdest thing

for me like and listen like i i mean it's on my instagram you can go see i was a sexy woman like i was i was a good looking woman okay like i'm not saying i wasn't but it doesn't mean that i was like but it's because i was really trying hard to like fit that. I was really trying hard to like make, like make my gender work because I didn't want to transition. You know, I like tried to like do the things I was supposed to do and whatever. It's just very, it's just like the way people listen to you, I think is like the main thing for me.

Oh, and the privilege of like not having a long line at the bathroom. That's always great. And the privilege of like not having a long line at the bathroom. That's always great. My God. It's truly a dream that men's rooms never have a line. And I'll go in like whenever I'm in Vegas, I'll fucking just go in. Yeah.

What are they going to tell you? They love to yell at me. Yeah. And then I'm like, who fucking cares? I've seen it. I've seen what you're working with before. I've seen dicks before. It's nothing special.

I'm not coming for it. I just want to pee. I just need to piss. But I will say, yes, the lines are shorter, but the bathrooms are way grosser. I mean, I don't know. I've been in a couple ladies' rooms where I'm like, bitches, you can't be bleeding everywhere.

What's wrong with you? I've been in a few ladies bathrooms before myself so i get that i know both sides now but uh that's that's yeah probably the best i mean that the vines is the best yeah um had your fiance she hadn't dated a trans man before you no she had never dated a trans man. She never dated women before me. She is very involved in the LGBT community as a really big ally. She loves to shoot drag queens. She moved here from Florida to pursue her photography, and her main passion was drag queens.

And since being out here, she's shot some of the biggest drag queens you can name. And I'm super proud of her. When we met, though, she knew I was trans because of my TikTok. And she reached out to me because she wanted to enhance her portfolio with other LGBT members besides drag queens. And that's kind of how we met. But yeah, she had never dated um trans guys before and uh she never had to like change her label when we started dating either it was just like you know people that she was close to and felt you know she would she would you know share obviously because i'm very open about it so i kind of let

that to her i was like hey like because i think that's another thing too when you date as a trans person is like your partner outing you and your partner telling people your shit like that's really a discussion that people need to have together because you know if their partner the trans you know whoever's trans is not comfortable being out that's their choice and you know if your partner doesn't respect that that's hard and then the but then sometimes you know the partner gets upset like well I want to be able to share our relationship and our the things we go through with my friends and family like it's it's it's a you know it's a tough it has to be a conversation you know what I mean but because I'm open and I will always be open um just because I feel like it's my position too in

a sense and it's not every trans person's position to be open that's not what I'm saying but I feel like in a way of the things that I want to accomplish the things I want to bring awareness to like that's what I choose to do and I've told her kind of just like from the jump like whoever you want to tell like that's up to you and I'll leave that kind of to your choice because it's your family and your friends whatever but like it's kind of it's kind of cool because at the same time she kind of made it not really a thing if that makes sense it was like yeah well like they'll just know but like i don't need to like tell like it's like yeah like he's open about it like it's but it was never like i need to tell you something like my you know at the time my boyfriend's trans like it wasn't it's not that it's just like you know what i mean and that's i think how i

obviously would prefer it just because it's like it's not all that i am and like it's part of me sure like it's like one of those like fun it's a fun fact it's just a little fun fact about me i'm a little trans boy uh no did you ever feel like you had to like educate her on stuff or is she the type of person i don't want you to like fully speak to her experience no no we can because i already got the permission from her okay um you know what's interesting is i really didn't feel like i had to i mean i think there were some things that i had you know we talked about because when it came down to like you know when it came down to sex like that was all was I think, you know, in her, in her headspace before the first time we had hooked up, it was more so like, like, I want to make sure I don't trigger

anything for you. And I want to make sure that, you know, what I'm doing isn't going to put you in a headspace, you know? And, and I kind of just told him like honestly like at that point when I met her in my life I was like I'm extremely confident in my body and I I don't feel like there would really is anything that you could make me feel that way so that I think that put her at ease it's like okay like I'm not gonna trigger anything for him and if I do he'll tell me and we could talk it through that was kind of like our thing. It was like, if you do, you know, but you know, and I think that there's like, you know,

oh my God, funny story. It's a very sexual story, but it's really funny. Go for it. I love that. All right, cool.

So like, juicy juice. Our really good neighbor, one day we were all like hanging out in our house. Like we were like, you know, having a good time. We're just chilling.

And our neighbor's like, I have a question. And like, like, not gonna lie, like she's the sweetest person ever. We're just chilling. And our neighbor's like, I have a question. Not gonna lie, she's the sweetest person ever. She means well. I knew it was like, alright, I'm not offended. When you say she means well, I feel like I know where this is going. You love those stories. Those are the best ones.

So she goes, how do you guys have sex? And I'm like, well, let me just show you. And I was trying to explain it. And then I was like, how do you guys, like, have sex? And I'm like, well, let me just show you. And I, like, was trying to explain it. And then I was like, it'd be so much easier if I could just show you my dick. And then, like, and then my fiancée's like, well, go show her your dick. She's like, this is an educational moment, Carter.

And I'm like, all right, babe, go into my room. I, like, bring out, out you know my dick and then she literally was like dumbfounded like literally like she was like oh my god she was like that is a nice dick and she was like i'm gonna tell my kids about this one day like doesn't even have kids yet like this she was like this is a game changer and then she's like i think i might need to go get me a trans man. And I'm like, I'd explain to her. I'm like, listen, like I always tell people because like, you know, it's like, listen,

you don't have a problem getting hard. No. And I'll stay as hard as long as you need me to. And you get to pick whatever size you want. So what is better than that? Like, I just like, you know, it's just like, sometimes you just got to make the, like, that's how I've been able to really get over my gender dysphoria when it comes to things like that. Just on my end, it's just like,

I just look at things in like a positive way. I'm like, no, this is a positive thing. Like I, like these are the, these are the like pros, like any woman would want these things,

you know, like, and I just kind of have to see it in that way. And like, it might sound cocky or cocky. I love the pun intended and uh exactly i was like it um it might be but but that's if that's what it takes for me to get myself into a good headspace so be it and let people think whatever they want to think you

know what i mean no i love it pick whatever you want never need viagra well carter we have come to the end do you have anything that you want to promote yeah um i would love if you guys um if anyone wants to um go check out my short film the change up it is on youtube if you look up carter ray um it'll be on my page or you can go to my Instagram. Carter underscore Ray with two Y's. R-A-Y-Y. And the link will be in my bio there as well to my music video for my new single that just came out this month. So, yes. I love that. Carter, thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you for having me. Honestly, I just think you are so incredible. Thank you. My fiance wants to do a roller skating date with you because you were the reason she started roller skating. Well, and after I wrap everything in November, I'm going to get back into roller skating. But I was like, I can't break my ankle or dislocate it again while I'm working. I mean, you can, but it has to be on set and they have to get it on tape.

That would be worth it. Well, if you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me, you can like it, you can rate it, you can subscribe. Fucking give me five stars on Apple Podcasts. If you write me something nasty, I will read it. This lovely person said, Nicole, I want to treat your pussy like improv. I want to spend way too much money wait did i read this yeah that one's

been read already oh shit okay remove okay what about okay mars listen to this one hi nicole i want to shrink myself so i can climb your juicy booty like it's mount everest oh yeah that sounds new let's read that. I like that one. When I get to the summit of your cheek, I'm going to build a bridge out of Legos and cross to your other cheek, being very careful not to fall in the very dark depths of the crack.

But just in case, I'm going to use a candy wrapper as a parachute as to not fall too quickly in the depths of the booty hole. If I do fall in, then I'll yell really loud so you can hear my shrunken voice for you to fart out once or uh if i get out i'll if i make it to the other cheek then i'll use lube as a slip and slide down your cheek then then speed will make it so i go straight around to

your wet vagina with miniature scuba gear on and be able to explore the depths like a national geographic explorer once i'm done exploring i'll use an earpiece since you won and be able to explore the depths like a National Geographic explorer. Once I'm done exploring, I'll use an earpiece. Since you won't be able to hear me from underwater and ask you to sneeze real hard that you eject me. That would be better than Splash Mountain. That's very funny. Wow. Okay. Thank you.

Bye-bye. That's it for Why Won't You Date Me? With me, Nicole Byer. that's it for why won't you date me with me nicole byer why won't you date me is produced and engineered by oh the sweetest woman i know marissa melnick it is executive produced by other wonderful people adam sacks joanna solo taroff and jeff ross thanks for listening i love you thank you so much we'll be seeing you you next Friday with a brand new episode. What a dream. What a dream.

This has been a Team Coco production.