Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Sex Work (w/ AM Davies)

Episode Date: January 8, 2021

Sex worker AM Davies (Host of Yes, A Strippper Podcast) is here to answer all of Nicole's questions about stripping and sex work. She discusses the difference between decriminalizing vs legalizing sex work, how strippers are coerced into tipping the house, the diversity problem in strip clubs, and how she's working to unionize strippers. Dating as a sex worker also comes with its own challenges - AM shares how partners have been jealous of her work, how she's even been broken up over her Instagram, and so much more. Support Black Lives Matter. For a list of resources and ways to help, check out blacklivesmatters.carrd.co. Follow Nicole Byer: Twitter: @nicolebyer Instagram: @nicolebyer Facebook: www.facebook.com/nicolebyercomedy Buy Merch: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/nicole-byer?ref_id=964 Order Nicole's book: www.indiebound.org/book/9781524850746

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why? Oh baby, welcome to another episode of Why Won't You Date Me? A podcast where Meena Kulbhair tries to figure out how I'm still single even though you could rip all of my tomatoes out of my new food garden and I'd go, okay, I guess you needed them. My guest today has a podcast called Yes, A Stripper. I enjoy her Instagram very much, or instagram i don't i didn't ask your pronouns which is rude i'll ask now yeah my pronouns are she her for right now okay yeah cool

so she's incredible it's am hi thank you so much for having me thank you for doing this thank you for reaching out i thoroughly enjoy your posts and stuff. I feel like you're a very good ally. Thank you. I'm honored. I was shocked when I saw that you shared one of my posts in your stories. I'm like, and somebody actually texted me a screenshot. They're like, have you seen this? And I was like, it was really cool. So yeah, thank you so much for being open to having me. Oh, yeah, no problem. I had been trying to figure out how to have strippers and or sex workers. Also, is it the same thing? Is stripping sex work? Yes, absolutely.

That might be the way you smiled. I was like, hmm, that's a dumb question. No, no, no. It's not a dumb question at all. And I think that it's great that people ask even the most basic questions because, you know, it means you want to learn. I do. I do want to learn a lot,

specifically because I'm like, I think sex work is, you know, work. And I think it's insane that it's stigmatized because people have sex for free. So I'm like, monetizing it to me is like oh that's smart and also I pole dance not well but I love it and I like found this hashtag that was like not a stripper and I was like well that's insane like why do you need to have the distinction if because like it's not like pole dancing was this art form on its own if I'm correct it came from strip clubs correct so like so it's insane to be like I'm not a stripper but this apparatus that I'm swinging around

is for a stripper but the person on it is not it's just it's so it's like uh I don't know it's it's it's weird it is weird and it actually upsets strippers quite a bit. And it's actually why the hashtag, yes, a stripper was created. And, you know, sort of in clapback to that. And to also have a discussion around how rude the hashtag not a stripper is. And it divides, you know. divide it divides you know and it and it's the people who created it did so it to separate themselves from strippers to make sure that people knew like yeah well I dance on a pole but like I don't do what strippers do and in that sense it puts us in this category that strippers aren't good that we're that that it's bad to be a stripper and so that's that's how it makes us feel like

excluded from the thing that we created for y'all to do you're welcome you know so yeah it's it's infuriating yeah it just doesn't make sense it's like it's very confusing like when I I was trying to wrap my head around it and I was trying to think of like an equivalent and I truly can't figure out what, I guess it's like if you have knives and you're like, not a chef, not a chef. I cut shit, but I'm not, I'll cut this steak, but I am not a chef. I, it's just so insane to me. That's a good analogy. not a chef. I it's just so insane to me. That's a good analogy. Cause it's like, yeah. Okay. We all, I don't know. It's just, it's very strange to me. I pull at a place it's called luscious Maven. I think it's like rather inclusive. And I just like that. Nobody was like, you're too fat to be on a

pole. Oh yeah. Never. At luscious Maven is great. Yeah. And, uh, and I've had some people like, you know, message me and be like, I'm scared to do it. I'm like, just go do it. And then I've had people be like, I went and, uh, they told me I was too big or like the teacher was condescending and I was like, Oh, this is so weird that their experience is not good. Like mine. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so let's just, I actually had a reaction when you said Luscious Maven because, um, I've, I've worked there before my accident and, um, it actually was originally a studio called Expositions and it was one of the first studios in Los Angeles that was open in like 2007 and it was the first studio I ever worked at so i've been working in that building off and on

since 2007 and um i've worked at luscious maven for a while have we never crossed paths there i do not think so i take a lot of classes or took oh boy i miss it uh with veronica and then tempest and then i've done a couple with, oh, I don't remember her name, but her Instagram handle is Vegan Pole Dancer. Monica. Yes, Monica. And those, yeah, those are the three I oscillate. Oh, and Jenny. Yeah.

Those are the four I oscillate between. Amazing. Yeah, but I've never had a class with you. Yes, I did all the highly sexual classes oh see I haven't taken any of those yet specifically because I don't I'm not sexy not true like I'm I it's not in like I'm a very silly person and that is a thing that I just can't commit to because I don't think it's in me and I'm okay with that yeah well no pressure no pressure I mean I would do it but like I just I feel like I would like look at the footage because I like to you know tape myself so I could be like what

did I do right because in the moment it's very hard to tell but I think I'd watch and be like wow this is not sexy at all yeah um yeah Yeah. It's definitely, it's interesting teaching the sexy pole classes because I'll have like advanced pole dancers have a hard time in those classes. And I just find it so interesting that there's so many of us that struggle with finding the sensual sexual parts of ourselves. And I just love bringing that out in people. And I love watching them go through that journey of like, discovering their body. And like, I'm very big on, you know, making sure people are touching themselves. But consensually, I don't force anybody to touch themselves. You know, I don't force anybody to touch themselves.

You know? In my class, that would be, it's like, touch yourself. Do it. Hold your titty. You're not holding it. Yeah, I really try not to force anybody. It's more of, like, encouragement. And it's, you know, and it's in a very loving, caring way.

It's not, like, overtly sexual. But, yeah, it's just, it's really important to me that people are in my classes are connected to themselves and their bodies and like saying very kind things to themselves that's I think one of the most important things that's a thing that I learned in therapy over the years my therapist is like anytime I say something disparaging about myself she's like why are you being mean to my friend and I was like what do you what do, she's like, why are you being mean to my friend? And I was like, what do you, what do you, she's like, I like you. You're my friend. Why are you being so rude to her? And I was like, oh my God, I don't know. So I tried like anytime I'm like, oh God, you idiot. I'm like, well, okay, Nicole, you're not an idiot. Like, and then I, I think that's the thing I like the most about stripping, like going to clubs and stuff is like people seem to be being nice to themselves.

And they're going, look at this body. Don't you love it? I love it. I'm like, yes, I do love it. It makes me happy. Yeah. Yeah, there is definitely a lot of it. I mean, there's also a lot of insecurities that we all deal with behind the scenes.

And it looks like we're, you know, we've got it all together. But you know, we're just like anybody else at the end of the day, we still, you know, also walking around and looking hot is part of the job. You know, it's like, you have to get your hair done, your makeup done, and you know, get the right outfits and do whatever you're going to do to your skin. And, and so it's, it looks like we're like, Oh, I'm hot and I'm great all the time. But just like everyone else, we go home and we're like, shit, like I, you know, we say the things to ourselves as well. I don't want to put words into people's mouths and say really negative shit, but you know, we still go home and we're just like everyone else. We like want to eat ice cream and watch Netflix at the end of the day, you know?

Mm hmm. Yeah. So you how long have you well, I guess clubs are closed now, but how long prior to Corona were you working in clubs? I started working in clubs in 2002. Oh, and yeah. And then in 2018, I was in an accident and I stopped working in the clubs during at that time. Yeah.

Do you think you'll go back to working in clubs? I don't see that happening because since then I've become a union coordinator. What's that mean? It means I'm trying to unionize strippers. And if I'm not unionizing strippers, I'm informing them of their rights very loudly and very clearly. And one of the things that they do here in the L.A. clubs now is they look at your Instagram handles before they hire you. Wait, really? Yeah, exactly. And so one of the reasons they do that is because they were, they're pressuring their dancers to advertise the club on their Instagram accounts.

So the more followers you had, the more likely you were to get hired. Yeah. And then after a while, when they understood that there was a group of people informing strippers of their rights, they look at Instagram accounts to see if you're posting about your worker rights like if you're learning stuff and if you're agreeing with it and if you're posting it they're like oh never mind and like that will determine if you will get hired or not that's fucking crazy that's truly the wildest thing i've not the wildest thing i've ever heard but like it's that's fucked up to like you're like okay we've got a group of girls. Let's go hunting through their personal lives to see if they're educated on

like, to see if we could take advantage of them essentially. Yeah, definitely. I mean, there was a case in a different city, not in LA, not in California where a dancer was hired. She, you know, a contract was ready for her and she came in with a hat on and they're like, oh yeah, we're ready for you. And then she took the hat off and walked away or something. And half an hour later, they're like, oh, nevermind, we're not hiring you. And she's like, I think it's because when they recognized me and they went back and

they looked at my account because her account now, when she got hired, she wasn't posting about her rights. But then later when the club opened, when COVID, you know, calmed down and the club opened and they looked at her Instagram account and it had been all about her rights. They were like, okay, never mind. So they like, they terminated her contract and we suspect it's because she had started talking about her rights on instagram because nothing else had changed why take away her contract that's so fucked up that's so rude so okay i the paying system in a club i read somewhere that sometimes girls pay like they have to tip out the house

like tip out the club before they start dancing so when you start dancing you're dancing in the hole essentially and you have absolutely that's fucking nuts yeah it's called a house fee so you're like renting the space that you use in the strip club i guess that's similar to like uh like a beautician where they have to like rent their chair it is but the difference is that the beauty salons are like doing stuff for you they have to like rent their chair. It is but the difference is that the beauty salons are like doing stuff for you they're like cleaning this shit up for you they're like supplying you with

the things. They're like you know you have the tools they clean up your chair, they sweep for you at the strip club like you have to buy all your own stuff for work, all your own costumes, your own shoes like we clean the poles ourselves sometimes they have the waitresses come up there but you know it's it they're not

providing enough for us for us to be paying them also you like if you sell food you sell it at such a high markup that that probably covers what you're asking dancers to pay in. And then drinks are obviously super marked up. Yeah. So it's like you are making money elsewhere. Why not? Would you advocate like to have a hat like to tip after you finish dancing or like not tip tip at the house at all? I mean, not tip the house at all.

Yeah. You know, if I were a server server i don't pay to go in you know i i don't i guess i bet i tip my bus boy but that's only if i want to so the thing is is these tip outs are coerced and you're it's like if you don't tip out then you get treated like shit if you don't tip out enough you get treated like shit like the dj will skip you or the dj will wait really yeah or the dj will play music that you don't like on purpose you won't get the shifts that you like if you have an argument with a customer and you haven't tipped out your bouncer enough then the bouncer won't try to help you as much that's literally insane yeah but it happens everywhere that's so fucked up like just to like

have a bouncer be like oh you didn't give me 20 extra fucking dollars. So I'm going to let your life be in danger. Yes. That makes that makes me so angry. Yeah. That's just that's just awful. I know. And it happens all across the country. And it's, you know, I don't know.

I know that they get ripped off in Canada, too. But I don't know, like the tipping culture exactly there. But they're also like in Canada, they have to pay agencies. Wait, what? Yeah, they pay the agency and then the agency books them. And then like they get these paychecks and it looks like an AT&T bill

where it's like they just take a fee for this and a fee for that. And then one of the things they do is they charge them promo fees. So they take their photo of the dancer and put it on a poster and put their logo on it and charge the dancer for that. Oh, my God. This is wild. Yeah, this is I mean, OK,

so are you for like sex work to be decriminalized or legalized? And then what's the difference? I have so many questions. You know, that's a really excellent question. I'm for decrim. And the reason I'm for decrim is because the most seasoned activists, sex workers, that's what they're for. And so I they know more than I do. I know that legalization isn't the best idea. And I don't know why. And I'm sorry that I can't answer that

with like full confidence but I do know that the majority of sex workers and activists working in sex work want decrim I want decrim I want full service sex work decriminalized for both the john and for the worker because in some cases they're trying to decriminalize it just for the worker and then make it so that it's a criminal act for the john but that doesn't help anybody no that's like uh like you can eat at a restaurant but you can't go to a supermarket because food's illegal do you know like it's like yeah you can't have one without the other. Exactly. Yeah. So they call that the Nordic model. Yeah. Which is so fucking weird.

It's very strange to be like, okay, so your livelihood is, you know, having an interaction with a person, but we're going to criminalize the person wanting the interaction. So then it's like, well, who do I interact with? Right. The whole, it's like well who do i interact with right it the whole it's just nonsense it's them just looking like oh we're doing something to help you see like we do want to help you psych like that's what it feels like you know yeah yeah it's absolutely that's and then why is i mean maybe you don't know the answer to this. Maybe nobody does. Why is prostitution like illegal, but then stripping is legal? Why are there like tiers of things that like are okay?

I'm not really sure. I'm not really sure why they, you know, it's the morality police, I suppose, you know. And I think a lot of it has to do with penetration and the this thing that they believe, well, you're just spreading STIs, STDs. And, you know, you're just making it worse for society because you're spreading these diseases is what I'm thinking of maybe that with their their thought processes of why one over the other. But I think ultimately, at the end of the day, it's that they can't control that capital. And so if you look at porn, for instance, that is people penetrating all different types of orifices with each other on camera. They're

getting paid. The executives are getting paid. The directors are getting paid. Everyone's getting paid from porn. But full service sex work, which is what you call prostitution, sex workers prefer to call it full service sex work. And I'll explain why in a minute. But when you're doing full service sex work, the worker themselves is the only one that's capitalizing off of their body. And therefore, that can't be regulated. It can't be controlled. And so that really pisses off the man, right? Because they don't want females, female bodies specifically. Yes, there are male sex workers. But specifically females, they don't want us making money off of our bodies.

That causes a problem for them. That empowers us. And the way we see it is it's just a way to maintain control over our bodies. Why is porn legal but me having sex with a stranger consensually for money is not? What's the difference? I mean, honestly, there's no difference. And in my head, I'm like, wouldn't it be in your best interest as a government to tax it? It's just like, why aren't drugs legal? Tax them.

Like, people want things. They're going to do it regardless. So why not tax them? Exactly. Why not have full service sex work? You know, you're a single person. You incorporate, you become a corporation, and then you're taxed as a corporation. Like, it's really kind of dumb. It is kind of dumb.

And quite frankly, they've caused all the problems themselves by making full service sex work illegal in the first place. Because when they closed down all of the brothels and they're like, OK, never mind. These are illegal. Like, bye. Then they kicked all the sex workers out onto the street. That's because those brothels were their homes. That's where they lived with their families. And so now these sex workers out onto the street. Because those brothels were their homes. That's where they lived with their families.

And so now these workers were out on the streets. And so that's how street work was created. Because they didn't have safe houses. And then they needed pimps because they needed to be protected from people who were harming them on the streets. So that's why pimps were created. And then some people were like, hey, we could move these people around and make money off of this and that's how sex trafficking was started so it's just like if they all just kept their noses out of it or asked us like ask us they're not asking us they just do it's like going to a construction site and making up all these laws and rules and they're not

construction workers they don't know you, you're just ruining it. Yeah. That's fucked up. I didn't know that sex workers lived in brothels. I thought it was like, you went to the brothel, that's your job. You go home. Yeah. No, they lived in them. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, this was back in the early 1900s, you know, when brothels were like allowed to be. And I did want to address the word prostitution because, you know, it's something that I learned a couple years ago, even after being a sex worker for several years, is that, you know, the word prostitution was created to deem people who are doing what they consider an illegal act. So the word prostitution is used for someone who is illegally selling sex for money. We don't believe it should be legal. And therefore, it's a carceral term. And it's a term that was created by the authorities and by, you know, the law, basically.

And, you know, we don't like that very much. Okay, I stopped saying it yeah oh no but when i say we don't like that very much i mean like we we don't like that it's illegal that it's considered illegal that it makes no sense and so to us we don't think that we're doing anything wrong so yeah but it's such a commonly used word it It's not. Yeah. No one's getting angry. It's just I like to just like educate. No, no. It's nice. I I've been trying to like learn and I will try to like post, you know, things about like

pro sex work, things in my stories. Yeah. Because I truly believe it's, you know, it's work and it's I think it's legitimate. And I've had a couple of people be like, here are some corrections. And I'm like, great. That's I don't know. I don't know. and I've had a couple people be like, here are some corrections, and I'm like, great. I don't know. I truly don't know.

I try to do my due diligence. If I see something, I looked up the Nordic model before I posted about it to be like, is this a thing? And then a bunch of Google.com, she's a friend, she helped me, she said yes. So then I posted about it, and then I posted something else. I don't remember what,

and then someone in my messages was just like, oh, this is a pretty problematic person for X, Y and Z. So maybe don't repost them. And I was like, you know what? I didn't know. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. There's and I get the same messages, too, for all different kinds of things.

There's just so much to learn. There is so much to learn. of things there's just so much to learn there is so much to learn and i feel like sometimes people get upset when corrected because they're like well i'm trying and it's like well trying is one thing but like just listening is so much more helpful sometimes than just trying yeah yeah yeah i've just i've found that there's a lot of defensiveness in the learning process these last several months yeah yeah like i got into an argument with a friend over those little black squares during the the summer in la where everyone was you know marching and protesting and posting things and then you know fall came they're like we gotta go to the gotta go to sleep or

something i don't know it just the fervor left la but uh i had an argument with my friend i was like don't post that black square i don't know why i don't like it but i don't think you should post it and then when like that was like the night before people were posting it and then we woke up and then i like saw a post it was like it's fucking up the algorithm for the black lives matter hashtag where there's information and i was like ah, ah, yeah, I knew why. Like I knew it was like pointless, but I was like, I didn't know what I thought was like harmful about it. But then I like explained it to my friend and they're like, but everyone else is doing it. And I was like, yeah, but like the black person in front of you is telling you that that it's meaningless, that it's not, it doesn't matter.

And then we like got into like kind of a heated argument about it. And then they finally deleted it. But argument about it, and then they finally deleted it. But I was like, and then they apologized. And I was like, but had you just listened? I wasn't saying you're wrong. I'm saying this thing that you're trying to do that's helpful isn't helpful. So just listen. Yeah, listening's hard.

It's hard, but also admitting that maybe there's something that you could have done better. Like, I think people just don't want to look bad. Like, so hard they don't want to look bad, that they'd rather defend and not listen than admit that. And I don't think that when you're making a mistake, you look bad, but I think that's how a lot of people read it. Like, they don't want to have made a mistake and look bad. But I think that's how a lot of people read it. Like they don't want to have made a mistake and look bad. But I think that looking bad helps everybody. I think so. I don't mind looking bad.

I look bad and stupid all day long. Like I love roller skating. Is she not good at it? I fall down all the time. But I'm just like, I don't know if I don't look bad and look silly doing something I like then I'm never gonna get good at it so like right why not yeah or also looking bad opens the door for other people to to learn yeah uh did you learn how to pole dance before working in a club or did you learn after you get the job well when I started in 2002, there were no pole dance classes.

So you learn on the stage naked in front of strangers is how you learn. How wild. Yes. That's so interesting that like, yeah, that there's no place to like learn how to do this. And you're like, okay. Talk about looking bad. I guess I just do it. On P-Valley, which is, like, my favorite show, they sometimes practice in the club, like, during the day. Is that something that's real?

Yeah, absolutely. We would either go in early or stay late or practice, like, on a slow shift would be a perfect time to do that. or practice like on a slow shift would be a perfect time to do that. But, you know, going in early means that, you know, the club opens at 11, so you want to get there at 10 but like ready to go so that you can spend your time on the pole and not in the dressing room getting ready. And then if you're working at night and you want to practice after work, the club closes either at 2 or at four so you're in the morning so that you're there practicing at like 2 33 in the morning after you've just worked all night dang yeah that's a lot

and in la what the rule is if there's liquor it can be full titties and then if there's no wait if there's no liquor full titties if there's liquor no full titties right well it kind of depends on where you are so you know in certain it varies by city actually so yeah so in hollywood for instance we have to be bikini if there's alcohol but in north hollywood they can be topless but they have to stay behind a line on the stage, and there's only beer and wine. Oh, how arbitrary. Yes. And then in Los Angeles County, if you're nude, then there's no alcohol at all. I wonder why.

I also wonder why. I think a lot of it, people don't want people to be nude with alcohol like they think that everyone's just gonna go crazy and just i'm drinking alcohol and you don't have panties on and i can't control myself i guess is that what it is i don't know maybe because in portland there's it's like full bar full nud nudity. Same thing in Kansas, a full bar. Like the first strip club I went to was in Kansas. It was like full nudity. And I was like, oh, okay.

Then in LA, I was like, wait, what? I was like, this is confusing. It's very confusing. And again, they're hurting themselves because then the clubs could do more sales and liquor and then they could be paying more taxes to the state. Yes. It's almost as if the government's like we don't want money like but it's like they do they do they want money they

want to keep it they don't want to give it to us but like just things they could be doing could be very smart but yeah i know real quick we have to take a break and we're back okay this is a love and relationship podcast but also I am not dating right now so like I've just been talking about whatever the fuck I want to talk about um but okay I'll ask you. Are you single? Are you dating? I'm so incredibly single. Me too. For a long time.

Same-sies. As a sex worker, is dating harder or no? It's much harder. You know, you meet people who are okay with it at first and then the more they start to develop feelings for you then your closeness with other men becomes an issue for them that's been my experience um or i'm just not taken seriously from the beginning and I get played pretty well because I'm so like if I like you like I'm I'm loving I'm I'm kind like I want to do things for you and um and so I've I feel like those things have been taken advantage of and then they just peace out super

early because I don't think they intended to to go any further with me because of what I do, because they can't handle it. And then my Instagram account, too, I've gotten broken up with over my Instagram account before. Really? Because it's like highly sexualized. Yeah. That's what you do. That's what like, do you wait to tell people like, do you wait to like the second or the third date? Or is it like the first date you're like, I strip? Yeah, I kind of just come right out and say it because like, I just don't. I wouldn't have to do that if I were an accountant or a lawyer.

I'd be like, oh, so this is our third date. And I just really have to let you know, I'm a lawyer. So I don't know if that if this can be a problem for you and he's like I can't take a lawyer home to my mother right exactly so I I just come right out and say it and I make it even like on the dating apps I like make it very clear of what I do and the conversations that I've had with people it's very disappointing you know they're like oh well I've been with a stripper before and it's it's like x y and z and i'm like okay oh so they'll just tell you straight up they're like

oh i've already had this experience and this is what it's going to be like so it's fine exactly yeah it's so interesting that i don't know that sex work and stripping just can't be considered a job and it's like well that's the job i do and because i guess i just don't see getting jealous of like getting closer to other men because it's like oh i'm just i'm taking their money that's the that's the whole thing is a fantasy yeah i i true like it i don't know me, it's a fantasy. Yeah. So it's like, why? Why get mad if that's the thing that you signed up for? and the media paints us as a certain type of person. And so if you really follow a stripper and like learn about what we do for work, there's a lot of care that goes into

dealing with the clients. Like we, a lot of times we are talking to them or listening to them or, you know, I've gotten paid $400 an hour before just to give people shoulder massages and drink champagne with them, you know, because that's what they wanted. They just wanted the company of another person.

And so, but yeah, you know, there's plenty of times where I've been like grinding my bare pussy on their hard dick through their jeans. Yeah. But it's meaningless. It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter it really doesn't i know it sounds like i wanted to say it like that because it definitely sounds like whoa you know but that's the fucking truth i did plenty of that for hours and hours and hours you know but collective hours not in a row

and so i i get it but it's like you just have to, you have to date people who are secure with themselves as a sex worker, as someone who knows that, you know, what I'm doing when I'm grinding on hard dick, that's not my emotions. It's not my heart. It's my body. And I'm happy to share my body with other people. It makes me feel good knowing that I am giving someone intimacy that they really need. good knowing that I am giving someone intimacy that they really need. If you look at it that way, if you look at it as like these people are paying for intimacy because they either don't know how to get it from whoever or they're in an unhappy marriage and they just want to forget about something and feel a person on them, like that can be so sweet if you think about it.

We're giving people body therapy. Yeah. It's like a living weighted blanket. Yeah. Because I think people have weighted blankets because it feels like a hug. I don't understand weighted blankets. I really don't like them. I like weighted blankets.

I just, I can't get behind them. I just feel like I'm dying. I really hate that. Yeah, I guess I could dying. I really hate that. Yeah, I guess I could see how someone could get jealous. It's not the same thing as comedy, but kind of. I've had some people I've dated not enjoy me being funnier than them. And then it becomes like a weird little competition. And I'm like, well, it's my job.

And I know that, you know, men are supposed to be funny. But guess what? A lot of them aren't. And it's just like, it would be like a, not an argument, but a one-upmanship. Like, I say something funny, he'd, like, try to up it. And then I'd up it. And then I'm like, this is, like, what comics do when we get together. So, like, this is my arena.

And, you know, I don't know. I think strong people are intimidating. Oh, yeah. 100%. And it definitely takes a strong person, first of all, to do comedy. My gosh. I'm like, I wish I could do comedy. I'm terrified of it. Isn't that funny?

I could be naked. It is very funny. I could be naked in front of, like, 500 people. I don't care. 500 is great. That's a huge audience. Like I'm hungry for it right now, actually. But do like stand up comedy.

Oh, my God. I'd be terrified. Yeah, it is. I mean, whatever I think about it, I'm like, it's literally the most insane thing. Like just truly like being like, OK, I wrote a bunch of things down. I'm going to say them out loud and you're all going to laugh. And then if then if you don't i'm gonna tell you that you're dumb and explain to you why the joke was funny and then stripping i guess like i don't know like i i've always said uh like i've talked to friends about like nudity and like acting and stuff and like would you do nudity

i'm like i would show my pussy but i don't think I would show my titties and everyone thinks that's insane yeah that's an interesting yeah that's yeah I would I feel the opposite see I like my pussy I don't love my titties so I'm like I don't know I'll show you the thing that I like the best yeah I think that's great that's what makes you know sex work so great not that you're doing sex work but it's like you know when you when you get to choose what to do with your body it's like you're providing for people what they need you know it's supply and demand and some people probably would rather see pussy over tits so at least someone's yeah someone's willing to and i'm here to show it i think i think that so like being bottomless reminds me of Winnie the Pooh. So I think that's how I'd be like, yeah, I don't mind.

I'm Winnie the Pooh-ing it. I love that. So that's, I guess, why I'd be comfortable with it. Here's a question. Working in clubs, there isn't much diversity in clubs. Like I like Jumbos and I like Cheetahs before cheetahs turned into whatever the fuck cheetahs is now and there'd always be like one black girl or like maybe two black girls like barely any trans women and I was like this is so weird and in I mean have you danced anywhere

other than LA yes I danced in West Palm Beach for a little while and I danced in Vegas and then just like randomly here and there across the country. Yeah. Like one night here. Are the clubs that you've danced in like predominantly white? Are they like mixed well with like different people or? No, they're predominantly white. And that's because they're racist. And then there's the hip hop clubs that are predominantly women of color and really no trans people. I worked with a trans dancer in Vegas, but she was so she was passing. She was so passing. There was no, like, we only really knew because it got out and circulated as gossip, which is shitty, which is shitty. And this was back in, like, 2003 and 2004, when we were just a lot less woke, which even wasn't that long ago. It's so pathetic. But she was treated differently, unfortunately, but she was so passing and beautiful. And I just wish that they would allow more trans dancers to be with us. And the white

clubs are racist and the black clubs are, they don't really hire a lot of white dancers. So it's sort of like if you go into a club like the look which is infuriating the club owners and the managers think well we know what people like and so we're going to schedule and hire dancers based on what we think people like and it's like but people like so many different things yeah and yeah if they don't like one dancer they don't have to look at that one it's five minutes like you can just go that one's not for me yeah uh have you ever worked with a fat dancer i don't think i've ever seen a fat stripper no i haven't because they're fattest is that a word anti-fat dancers i think it's fat phobic that's the word fat phobic yeah that that's what they are and um no i've never but i know some now that dance online and they're

just like stunning and wonderful and beautiful and people like them and and are turned on by them and so again that's the owners and the managers thinking that they know what everybody wants if you go to a porn site it's like so many different kinds of things yeah everything you could possibly want everything because everybody wants everything like instagram has uh opened the door for me to see like a like people who look like me dancing and then that makes me a little bit more motivated to be like ah well I will get that move one day or maybe one day I will dance in a club. One like dream of mine is to like once a month dance in a club and then donate the money to something or like give it back to the girls or something. But like just be like once a month I do

this. But I have to get good first. I mean, good at what? What part do you have to get good at? Tricks. I'm a trick lady. So I went to this club in Kansas and this woman named Foxy told me that there's four types of dancers. There's face girls, floor girls, pole girls who do like tricks and stuff. And then wait, face, floor, tricks. Oh, maybe that maybe it's only three. I don't remember, but I want to be a pole girl who does tricks. OK, OK.

A pole girl who does tricks. Yeah. Yeah, that's i mean she's right there's all i know pole girls that only do tricks and don't do floor face i do all three floor face pole see i mean that would be like the ultimate but you know i can't be greedy i'm just gonna pick one and focus on that. No, I love it. Yeah. No, that is pretty accurate of her, though. That is pretty accurate. But I wish that for you, that you get to fulfill that dream. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You know I worked at Jumbo's for 11 and a half years. No, I didn't know that.

That's a long time. I wonder if I've seen you dance there. Probably. Probably have, yeah. When did you stop dancing there? In December of 2018. Oh, then I definitely must, I probably saw you there. Yes.

It's maybe one of them. It's, I like, did you have a good experience? I. Oh, no. What a big long pause. I'm so sad. It's one of my favorite places. Oh, no.

Yes and no. Oh, no. Yes and no. Yes and no. It was working with the dancers there was unbelievable. The dancers made that place. It makes it what's so special about it is the dancers. But the way it's run, it's mismanaged poorly. The owner is a Trump supporter which is weird um and that makes me so sad and it was racist there were racist hiring policies um actually there was no policies regarding hiring they just do whatever they want so it's

kind of racist they had two two and a half black dancers there out of a roster of 50. Oh, damn. I didn't know 50 girls worked there. They did. And then she fired like a third of the dancers when the law changed. And it went down to one and a half black dancers out of 30. Dang. Yeah.

So, you know, things like that are pretty disappointing. And, you know, we as dancers weren't weren't as well taken care of as we should have been. So there was, you know, struggles with the owner. And a lot of people think, oh, the owner is a woman. That's great. It's like, no, you don't. It doesn't matter your gender. It matters how you take care of your workers. Yeah. People shouldn't get a pass just because there are certain ethnicity, race or gender. It's like, are you doing the right thing? Are you not doing the right thing?

Yeah. Because it's like demonize white men all you want. But there's some white men doing the work and being good people. Yeah. So you can't say all. Right. Like my brother. My brother is a really he's a really dope white dude. Is he single? He is. Yeah. So you can't say all. Right. Like my brother. My brother is a really, he's a really dope white dude.

Is he single? He is. Yes. Tell him about me. Yeah, he's dope. So, yeah, I mean, I enjoyed working there. It's why I stayed there for 11 and a half years. And I stayed because of who I worked with and what you know that stage that room itself is magical

you know it really is yeah it is that a static or a spin pole static that's a static pole yeah okay it also looks bigger than other poles I've seen it's a 50 it's 50 millimeters so it is bigger because the standard one's 45 actually in stri in stripper culture, standard is 50 millimeter. And then in pole dancing culture, it turned to 45 because everyone wanted to do the grips where their body is far away from the pole. And so it's easier to do on a 45 than it is a 50. I see. I see. I'm learning so dang much.

And actually, in strip clubs, standard poles are brass, not chrome or silver. So they're stickier and a little harsher on the skin. So, you know. Yeah. Stripper pole dancing is hardcore. I have a brass pole at my house and I like it because I stick to it easier. And then I hadn't pulled in a studio in so long. And then when I went back to the studio, I was like, why am I sliding?

This is harder. I like brass. Yes. I guess it does like rip up my skin, but like I just I prefer it. Yeah, it's much better. OK, here's another question. What are because I have my thoughts. What are tipping standards that everyone should be doing in a club?

I think it depends on what kind of, you know, economic status that you're at. So if you don't have a ton of money, I would say that you sort of like pick an amount that you want to spend and not spend over that. And when you're done spending that money, then you just got to go. You can't stick around. So if you can only spend 50 bucks, you bring 50 bucks and then you give a dollar or two dollars to each dancer. Tip every dancer. You don't have to tip every dancer. It's just nice to at least a dollar a dancer. And then when you run out, you leave. Or if you've got mad money, then you spend it as much as you can. And you tip tip every dancer if you've got a ton of money you tip

every dancer like five bucks if you've got a ton of money i okay so these are very similar to my thoughts my thoughts are you tip a dollar per dancer no matter if you like the dancer or not and when they're up the second time it's still a dollar it's a dollar per dance not per girl right and if you don't have the money you have to go you can't just sit by the bar it's a dollar per dance, not per girl. And if you don't have the money, you have to go. You can't just sit by the bar. It's not like in a proximity to the stage. It's like, if you do not have money to put on the stage, you have to leave. And then if you have a ton of money, truly treat everyone so nicely. And then I like the first time I did it, my friend was like, so you're tipping all of them. And I was like, yes. And they were like, why? And I was like, because they were like why and I was like because they danced and I think that's what you

have to do and and then um and then like uh when I you know was making a little bit more money I would tip like ten dollars like I would just like throw a lot of money and just like spend money and then the girls would like thank me and I was like they don't seem to be thanking many other people are not are other people not doing the same thing I'm doing and I was like this is stupid this is and then I got into a fight with a friend who like didn't tip at all and I was like you have to or you have to go and he's like what do you mean and I was like well you can't be he didn't tip at all and he's confused about why he shouldn't be there i think a lot of people get confused they're just like well you know they probably get like a like money from the club like a like a like a server gets two dollars and fifty cents an hour they're like i mean maybe like they do that at a club but you right you don't get or do you get like like a server so yeah like it depends on

where if you're at jumbo's clown right now they were open, then she did switch over to that model where the law had been rewritten to make it more clear for these owners to understand that strippers are actually employees and that they should be getting paid hourly. But the majority of the clubs, they've never followed that rule, which is why when there are labor lawsuits and class actions against them, 99% of the time they settle out of court and the dancers win because they're always violating labor law. And so then the law was like, okay, let us rewrite this to make it clear for you of how you should be running your business. And most of the clubs, they still didn't switch over to start to pay their dancers hourly, which is what they're supposed to do. But it's minimum wage though. So even if I'm up there dancing for $15 an hour, you're still supposed to tip me. You wouldn't go to a restaurant and not tip your server because they're getting paid hourly. Like that's just the culture. It's like, I don't understand how you go into a strip

club and not tip. It's just the culture. It's what we see on TV and movies. Like, can don't understand how you go into a strip club and not tip. It's just the culture. It's what we see on TV and movies. Like, can't you learn anything positive? Just take the negative shit. So, yeah. So, and if you consider, like, $15 minimum wage to do what we're doing, it's not enough. No, it's a very, enough no it's a very like it's strenuous i mean i've never i i mean i've only danced to like one full song and then afterwards i'm like wow i'm like winded and

people do this three times a night four times a night there's a lot yeah and but on top of that too the emotional labor that we're giving out is because, like, we can't be grumpy strippers. Like, we can't. We have to be like, hi, oh, my God. I'm like, I'm having such a great night. What are you doing? What did you do tonight? Like, you have to do that all night with, like, a hundred different strangers.

And then I have to go on stage and get naked and hang upside down by my ankles. You know, and I'm counting my own money backstage. Every time, you know, you pick up all the money and then you have to count it and you have to organize it. So I'm my own accountant all throughout the night, keeping track of what I'm making, what I'm going to have to tip out at the end of the night. Making sure that I'm getting drinks so that I'm having a good, looking like I'm having a good time, changing my outfits. Like it is nonstop work. It's a lot like being a server where you just never really get a break. It's a lot like that.

Yeah, man. But it seems like so much fun. Oh my God, it's so much fun. It's the funnest job ever. I think it is. Every time I go to Jumbo's, I think I started taking polls because I was like, I want to do this.'s I'm like I think I like I started taking polls I was like I want to do this I just love it so much yeah I um I it's so funny I was watching um a movie or Netflix I

can't remember I'm watching so much shit right now um and uh someone got a standing ovation on TV and I was like so jealous that I wasn't on stage getting a standing ovation because I miss it I'm being on stage feeds my soul same I really miss being on stage I miss I didn't realize how much of a people because because I don't like people, but apparently I feed off people. I like being near people. I lived in New York for such a long time and performed, but I learned when I moved to LA that I loved being on the train because I was by myself reading, listening to music, but I was surrounded by other people living their lives. And I just really liked that yeah and then in LA I felt so isolated and I was like well where do where do you go when you want to be near the people so I would just go downtown sometimes and like walk around but then

downtown is so poorly laid out that it would just make me upset and I was like this is not my city this is not it but yeah I feel you on that like i just i miss performing i miss people i like miss meet and greets which is a thing that i i do like i didn't mind doing meet and greets but people would always be like you must hate this and i was like no it's nice that you left your house and like me i just like i i miss it all yeah definitely yeah and i think part of the reason the job was so fun is just like when you people are just like screaming at how amazing you are and throwing their wallets at you. Yes. That's so fucking cool. It feels good.

I was in Portland. This was God. It was so long ago at this point. It doesn't feel long ago, but we went to me and my friend Tessie went to Acropolis, which is a strip club that's like famous for like their delicious steaks. And this girl was dancing and they had a spin pole. And I was like, Ooh, a spin pole. And I'm obsessed with the ballerina move. I think it's just called a ballerina and she hadn't done it yet. And I was like, can you do a ballerina please? And I like put like $5 on like the little ledge.

And she was like, Ooh, okay. And then she's like, yell out other stuff you want. And I was like, upside down, invert. And she was like oh okay and then she's like yell out other stuff you want and i was like upside down invert she was like okay it was just like she was like a jukebox of moves for me and then we like started talking and she was like how do you know about you know spin versus static pull and i was like oh i take classes i'm a novice but like i love it and then i just had a really nice time and i really wish her well i hope she's okay yeah i hope so too you said port, right? Mm-hmm.

Yeah, there's a lot going on in Portland. There's actually Kat Hollis of Portland. She organized the stripper strike up there and raised over $600,000 for sex workers in Oregon specifically. Raised by the state. I believe she got a grant from the state. That's very fucking cool. specifically were raised by the the state i believe she got a grant from the state yeah that's yeah so i really hope that the portland dancers you know do have what they need during this time yeah i just like during covid i feel like i mean i feel like strippers and sex workers just whatever sex workers are on their own for the most part. And then COVID was like, what the fuck? It's like your business is human interaction. Yeah.

And have you done any of the online strip shows? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I like them. I know. Yeah, I did one on New Year's Eve that I hosted actually for five hours. Oh, wow. And then I closed with the performance.

That's a big job. And then, yeah, I'm doing another one on the 7th, another one on the 11th, and these are all different brands. And there's just, they popped up online everywhere. And it's been great to have control over our own content and make and, you know, keep our own money, etc. However, at the same time, the government is cracking down on online regulations. the government is cracking down on online regulations. They're trying to write and add all of these new bills that really will greatly affect sex workers. And we feel like it's pretty much like a war on sex work. Like Instagram is trying to erase us right now. They're trying to weaken our encrypted technology, which would affect everybody, not just sex workers.

our encrypted technology, which would affect everybody, not just sex workers. And they have all these new bills in place that are trying to dismantle like porn sites. Oh, really? Yeah. And MasterCard and Visa just recently pulled out of working with Pornhub and with other porn sites. So you can't, they don't have credit card processors right now. That just happened a few weeks ago. That's fucking nuts.

Yeah. And a lot of it has to do with the sex trafficking and, you know, the children, you know, and what it really boils down to is no one, not even like Pornhub, is listening to sex workers. And apparently sex workers warned Pornhub like a few years ago, like, hey, there's like really inappropriate content that probably shouldn't be on here. Like you should probably mediate this content and remove it. And they're like, eh, whatever.

And they didn't. And then MasterCard and Visa was like, we don't like this child content on your website. We're out. And it's like, dang, that's so fun. I will never understand not listening to the people,

like not listening to. I mean, not employees, but like kind of employees like listening to the people who are doing the work. Yeah. And being like, no, we're just going to leave it up. It's like, no fucking do like clean your site like every couple of days. Like make sure that like the content is good legal stuff. Right. People who are consenting and like of age.

Yeah. It's just so wild yeah and so the bills that they're trying to pass while at the same time i can see like i can see the good intention behind it but because it's being made they're being made so recklessly and without consulting with sex workers it really does hurt us so much in the long run and it's just like if you just shut up and listen like important they don they don't care. They're just making money off us. They don't care. Mm hmm.

You know, and now nobody can make money because y'all didn't listen. Yeah, that's insane. So, yeah. And so it's just getting harder and harder to make money as a sex worker online. And we don't have brick and mortar places because of COVID. So we're all like freaking out. We're kind of freaking out. Yeah. Yeah. Oh boy. Well, on that note, I do ask all my guests this. Would you date me?

I would date you, Nicole. I would. What a treat. thank you yes i i am interested in dating period i'm like open to dating i was just waiting to get my leg my prosthetic leg and now that i have that i'm like ready to yeah is it can you pull with the prosthetic leg yeah i eventually dumb question no no eventually i hope so I mean yeah yes of course you could I was truly in my brain being like is that a dumb question and I'm like it is because I've seen a lot of amputees uh pull and it's like oh yeah of course you just figure out different grip points yeah I guess I don't know I haven't done it yet I'm right now I'm just focusing on um trying to walk right now I just got it a few days ago so oh well that's fun congrats yeah thank you you're welcome I dislocated my ankle this is nowhere near the same thing but uh I'm like in a boot and have crutches and then I was like looking

at my little atrophied leg and I was like oh no I'm a big bitch is this like like gonna be okay taking weight again we shall see it will yeah okay well we've come to the end uh do you have anything that you want to promote yeah I just would love to talk about you know promote my podcast and for people more civilians I'm really looking for more civilians to listen to Yes! A Stripper podcast because you can learn a lot about sex workers and strippers and not only what's going on in our industry and our community but all of the amazing

things that strippers do because they are incredible people. So you can find that anywhere you listen to podcasts called Yes! A Stripper and follow me on Instagram at Yes! a stripper podcast yes also if you enjoy strip clubs look for strip online shows um a fun way to do it i'll just tell you is to have like a google hangout with your friends and then uh the zoom and then you mute

the zoom and one person has the volume on. So you can like talk and also listen and like watch it. And it's a I've done it a bunch of times. It's very fun. And they have like the Venmo. You can tip girls. It's almost like being at a club. Yeah.

You're talking about like a strip club online watch party. Yeah. It's honestly I've done it like I don't know 10 times. It's so much fun. I love that. Will you please, could you share with me your formula so I could share that with other people? Yeah. Like in a text?

Yeah, sure. Yes. Yeah, I'll do it in like a hot second. Well, if you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me, you can rate it. You can subscribe. You can do other stuff. I don't know. But if you write me something nasty hitting on me i will

read it this nice person said nicole i need to get me into that hamper once i land me a pair of those sweaty tail draws i'm gonna tear into them and shake shake them like the only dog i smell like wet ladybush now do i want in do i need a password i don't get the end of it but I got the beginning half of it thank you very much for that uh that fun little message okay well that's it bye This has been a Team Coco production.