Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - The Science Behind Dating Apps (w/ Emily Heller)

Episode Date: December 21, 2017

Emily Heller (Comedian, Baby Geniuses) joins Nicole to discuss the stats behind dating apps, steamy movies and the most boring man Nicole has ever dated. Know how IMDB's star meter works? Please tell us. Email Nicole at [e-mail]. You can play along and see Nicole's Tinder bio and photos on her Facebook page at: https://www.facebook.com/pg/NicoleByerComedy Be sure to rate Why Won't You Date Me 5-stars on Apple Podcasts. Leave a dirty comment for a chance have it read on-air. Follow Nicole Byer: Tour Dates: nicolebyerwastaken.com/tourdates Twitter: @nicolebyer Instagram: @nicolebyer Facebook: www.facebook.com/nicolebyercomedy

This is a HeadGum Podcast. Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why! Please tell me why She currently writes on a show called Barry. Ooh, it's Emily Heller! Hi! Hello. Oh, Emily, I adore you. I adore you as well. I think you're very, very funny, and I remember our first long interaction. It was at Rutgers University.

Oh, right. We had a show together, a college show. Yes. And you were opening for me me even though that's dumb because you had been doing stand-up for so much longer than me I think it was truly my third stand-up show but I've been doing girl code it was a girl code show that like Alice had dropped out of yes and I got added to it and I was so nervous because I was like, so Emily's going to go up there for, I think I had to do 45 minutes.

Well, so yeah, it was like, I was going to do 15, you were going to do 45, and then you were like, let's ask them if we can switch. And they were like, no. Absolutely not, you cannot. And I was like, okay. Everyone is here to see Nicole. All right.

And then I was so worried about you crushing, and then me getting on the stage and being like, okay, I don't know. You were seriously like, I have 10 minutes of jokes. I don't know. And then you went up for half an hour and crushed for a solid half hour. But I don't know. But looking back at those jokes, a lot of them were like very much first drafts. Or like, just like, I don't know.

Here's a tweet. I just feel like my first drafts or like just like i don't know here's a tweet i just feel like my first drafts eat shit so that's why i write so much uh it was a very and you sat on the floor and you were very nice and i said can you please tell me when i hit a half hour and then because i wasn't recording it or maybe i was but then i was like Emily did I do it and you were like yeah well because you were like supposed to do a half hour and you were worried you were gonna go under yeah you so I think of you as my little comedy fairy godmother I don't think I've ever told you that oh that's nice because you were and then you well I love telling people what to do so that this dynamic is really going to work out. Well, you also told me after that show, you were like, don't do that. So I used to open with a joke where I would be

like, oh, yeah, talk like that. And I go, just kidding. I don't sound like that. And you're like, don't do that anymore. And I was like, why? And you're like, I've heard it. And then I like kept doing it. And then I heard someone do it. And I was like, Emily was right. Yeah, I have to always listen to Emily. Oh, you're the only person who's ever really learned that lesson. So many people had the opportunity. My curse is that I have watched so much stand-up comedy because I used to work at a comedy company. Oh, really?

Yeah. I worked at Rooftop Comedy and part of my job was watching not national headliners all the time but like feature acts and open mics and stuff like that so i have a weird encyclopedic knowledge of like just okay comedians and like their acts so if someone's doing something like hacky i usually can be like, oh, I know the exact feature act from Appleton, Wisconsin. Who tells that joke? That is crazy. It's a weird thing. And I love it. Well, and it also meant like when I moved to New York, like all of the people who were

like in the open mic scene who had moved there from their local scenes, I was like, yeah, I've watched your full hour. Like I'm the only person who knows who you are. That's so funny to know feature acts and openers. It was a weird thing. I mean, it's nice because like a lot of them, it's been cool to like watch their careers and like a lot of them have gone on to do really awesome stuff. And I feel like it gave me a lot of information.

But at the same time, it is like I'm always like, should I tell that person that someone else has that joke? You know, I think it is like, I'm always like, should I tell that person that someone else has that joke? I think it is helpful. I think it's really helpful to hear because then you can tweak and fix it. And the only reason why I was doing it was it was an excuse for me to do a Monique impersonation. And how else are you going to sneak that in there? I mean, here's the thing. There's a lot of times when someone's doing a joke that other people are doing.

It's because it's a good joke. It's not always because it's hacky. It's because it's like, oh, that fucking works, you know? And it is like every comedian feels the need to like start by addressing how they think the audience perceives them, too. And so it's there are only so many takes on that. You're right. And it is funny that that's the thing that you want to open with. I was watching Ryan Hamilton's special.

So fucking good. Which is delightful. He's such a delightful. I had never seen him before. Oh. I'm bad at. He's so great. Like studying comedy.

Well, I just spent two weeks with him in Melbourne at the Melbourne Festival. So I was like watching his act every night for like two weeks and just. What a fucking joy that man is. He's such a joy. And what is he opens with like a. He's like, let's start with my face, shall we? And he's like, you don't want me at a funeral. It's great.

It's so funny because. And it's so specific to his face because he just has a jovial smile all the time. Oh, comedy. Comedy's fun. But that's not what this podcast is about. No. This podcast is about pain. It's about pain and sadness.

Honestly, kind of. It's about why I'm so single. And I'm on Tinder. And I'm on Bumble. And I'm on tinder and I'm on bumble and I'm on hinge and raya rejected me and raya man I think I'm too fat and black for it I think that's probably it yeah I honestly think that's what I'm validating you right now thank you because some people have been like no Nicole I'm like no uh our mutual friend eliza is on it and she let me see some of the people on it and i was like oh yeah definitely too fat and black like i think if someone swiped and saw me they go no i thought this was our special place it's such a bummer i

i mean obviously i think we've talked about this and i'm sure someone else on this podcast has talked about the like the old okay cupid blogs where they analyzed their no we have not talked about it oh and and no one's mentioned it i used to be obsessed with this they took them down i think because they wanted to i think that they got a book deal um and they're like releasing a book about it i don't remember what happened but like back in the day, I used to be really into reading the OkCupid blog because they have a bunch of statisticians working there and they were really into analyzing the statistics of the website. So it wasn't just like self-reported like surveys. It was like, no, we have actual data on not only who people say they're interested in, but also who they actually message,

who they actually respond to, and how that correlates with how good of a match they are. So they can tell when people are messaging people who are not a good match, but because of other demographic factors. And they did an entire blog post about race showing like who gets the most messages adjusted for like how many you should be getting based on your match percentage and your rating and things like that. And surprise, surprise, black women get the least messages. Nobody wants us. It's called, wait, what's it called? Misogynoir. Oh.

Have you heard that term? No, this is fun. It's like a specific term about like misogyny against black women. Like the combination of like racism and misogyny. Well, I know currently nobody believes us. That's a current thing that people are like, yeah, nobody believes black women. It's like, yeah, duh. It's been a thing for forever.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, it's a pervasive. So now nobody wants to date us. Yeah. Who gets the most messages? Do you remember? I think it was like Middle Eastern women.

Interesting. And then for men, it was like white men get the most messages and then Asian men get the least. Oh, that's a bummer. So Asian men and black women, we should get together. Hook it up. We should say nobody wants us what was that movie with alia and jelly that was queen of the damned no uh

yes it might have been an anne rice novel yeah i don't know it was the one with but first you don't succeed dust yourself off and try again try again Anyway, that should be the model There are two very underappreciated And extremely sexy groups of people That should be getting together Interesting Well, I mean, I get why white men Would be the most messaged

But I'm surprised that it's Asian women Who are the most messaged And not white women Oh no, it's Middle Eastern women Oh, sorry, you said Middle Eastern. Yeah. Middle Eastern women. Oh, I guess I get that.

They're very pretty. Yeah, well, and sometimes it's hard to tell because, like, if there are less Middle Eastern women than, like, white women, then those statistics can be more easily skewed. So who knows? And who knows what the... But anyway, those vlogs are really interesting.

They came out like 10 years ago. So the dad is probably different now. But I found that really interesting because it really kind of gets to like the honest answers of like what people are actually... How people's racism actually affects their dating life. Interesting. My mother used to always say,

she would always be like, you shouldn't get stuck on these little white boys because they're not going to take you home to their mothers. And I'd be like, that's not nice. But then now that I've grown up, I'm like, she was onto something. She was just trying to prep me for, she would say a lot of things and I'd be like,

no, mom, but I forgot, or not forgot, I just never took into consideration that she grew up in Mississippi and then moved to Chicago, which is the most successfully segregated city, I think.

Oh, yeah. And I just, it never, and then she moved to an all white town in New Jersey and it never, I never mapped or tracked that like her life to be

like oh this is why this woman is arriving to these conclusions it's weird how we don't think about that with our parents yeah like it's not until we're adults and we've have had our own journeys where we're like hey wait a minute you're also a person why are you like that and then you're like fuck I wish I'd known that. But when you're a kid, you're just like, no, you are here to give birth to me. You give me macaroni and you're saying dumb things. And when I go to sleep, you don't do anything. You don't do anything. And also you won't let me have a pool. Oh, man. Yeah. My mother would not get a pool specifically because she said I like how you said that that like it's a genuine thing that you are allowed to be mad at i am and she had a whole excuse i was like i want a pool and she was like

no no actually she was like maybe because we had room for it and then she came back and she said your dad and i talked we're not going to get a pool and i was like why and she said because you're not going to follow the rules i said i will I will follow the rules. And she said, no. I would say, don't go swimming alone. And you'd probably line up your stuffed animals and say, I'm not alone. And in that moment, I was like, that woman knows me so well. She knows exactly everything I would do. She's right.

I would absolutely do that. Or be like, there was a deer outside. And now you have your own pool. And now I have my own fucking pool. And she gets sucky. It's not nice. She dead. Anywho. Did you meet your boyfriend on

a dating app? I did. I met my boyfriend on OkCupid. Oh, you did? Yeah. How many years ago though? Two, three? Three and a half. Yeah. Yeah, it was, our anniversary Three and a half. Yeah. Yeah. It was our anniversary was in August. So, yeah.

I feel like that is just about when OkCupid jumped the shark for me. Really? Yes. Because right now I feel like Tinder is filled with riffraff and then OkCupid is like the just like the swamp of the riffraff. I will say it was like he and I actually initially messaged on Tinder and it didn't really go anywhere. But then when I saw him on OkCupid, there was

so much more information and also there's like the match percentage and like I had been on OkCupid for a while and I was like oh, I should definitely go out with this guy because he's like literally my checklist of what I was looking for yeah is it sweet or like weird and calculating but uh either way well I feel like online dating

is inherently calculated yes because you're like we matched okay that means we both like each other oh let me read your profile okay so I see that yeah it's like little steps. So you spoke on Tinder first for a long time or a short time? No, just like we exchanged a few messages for a few weeks. And then I like ended up getting off Tinder. And did he message you first or did you message him? On Tinder? I don't remember. But like, you know, we matched.

And then on OKCupid, I messaged him and i was like hey remember me sorry uh i was like tinder kicked me off which they did but that wait but later well because when i like got rid of my facebook account that's what was linked and then they were like you don't exist um and i was like well that's fine goodbye forever Well, now Tinder's coming up. You don't need a Facebook account. One. Two, you can swipe on your desktop. Okay. Which is wild. I would love to go into a library and see someone just clicking on Tinder. You definitely will. It's not porn.

My favorite is someone watching porn in public. Oh, my God. Because it's honestly like you can't wait till you get home. Well, people without homes sometimes. Oh, you're right. You gotta watch the porn in the street. Or people who don't have Wi-Fi. They gotta put it in the Spank Bank for later.

I guess so. There was an open mic we used to do in San Francisco that was at a laundromat cafe that had public computers that you had to stand up to use so that people wouldn't use them for too long. And definitely saw a lot of people looking at porn on them. Just at like 7 p.m. on a Thursday. That's so weird. Porn for me is a home time thing. And then even so, like Sometimes I'll watch porn and get so sad for everybody involved.

Not even just the woman. I'm like, I don't know if he wants to be there either. He's like, call me daddy. I'm like, is that honestly what you want? You want to be called daddy? I can only watch cartoon porn for that very reason.

Or scenes from movies where i know that how that they're getting paid a lot of money and then i like uh unfaithful is a pretty steamy movie oh i haven't seen that it's good i think it's diane lane and then this beautiful maybe hispanic man i just know i like how you're like i love it i've never looked at the imdb not one time but it's very steamy after this comes out people are gonna be like the star meter is going up on this i don't know how that works i star meter i don't know either because does that mean someone is like has a google alert on every fucking person on IMDb? Like, how do you calculate star meters?

Well, it's like probably the people at IMDb have like a record of like how many people are searching for the names per day. Oh, interesting. But even that, I don't know. Someone call in. Is this a call in show? Let's see. Okay. If you work for IMDB or know how IMDB works, you can email me at bacon can save. No, wait.

Yes. Baking is good. No. Bacon can save gmail.com. That's my email that I just give out. Yeah. It's good to have one of those. Yeah.

I'm like, whatever. Sometimes people email me compliments. So I'll just look at it when I'm saying. Oh, that's good. I go, okay, people do like me. Yeah. People like you. Well, the internet tells me different.

Yeah. I just went on a Tinder date with a man. I would say his name, but that's not nice. But okay, his first picture, I'll let you swipe through it. Yes. Oh, God. It's been so long. His first picture, I was like, this man might be attractive.

I love that guessing game of like, I can't tell. Yeah, it's hard to tell. It's black and white. He might be cute. Swipe. Swipe to the right or the left? I don't know. Okay, to the right. Yeah. But then you're like, no, because it's a face on picture. And I wasn't here for that. Okay, but I just got to the end. Yes, he tricked me. He tricked me. So in that last picture, his body is out. He's shirtless. He's touching the ceiling.

But if you look in the background, the ceiling and the door are the same height, meaning it's a very low ceiling. So you thought he was taller than his. So I thought he was way taller. I thought he was like 6'4", 6'5", 8 feet tall. That's not a trickery. There are things in this photo for scale. But when you're touching a ceiling, that means to me you are so tall. Then I was like, oh, I guess he touched the ceiling because the ceiling was so small. So how tall was he?

He was like 5'5". But also I have very bad death perception. So he could have been a little taller. But to me, he was like 5'5". I'm 5'4". Does that put things in perspective for you? So he was like your height. me, he was like 5'5". I'm 5'4". Does that put things in perspective for you? So he was like your height. Yeah, he was like 5'5".

All right. And he had a slight stutter. And there's nothing wrong with a stutter. But he was so boring. He was the most boring. That's unforgivable. Everything else, literally anything about your body is forgivable. Very forgivable very forgivable i was uh not

shocked but like just like taking it back at how small he was because like even his features he was just a small man and that's fine you can't tell that in the pictures that's no and you know going into a tinder date that it's essentially a blind date and he in the beginning so we go to this bar in Atwater and the bartender he ordered my drink before I got there and then the bartender was like 16 he goes okay hands him a card the bartender says cash only so then he extends his hand further with the card and the bartender goes hey man cash only so then he like retracts the card and then slowly reaches it out again and i was like oh no does he like not understand words what is happening so i just pulled 20 out of my purse and gave it to him and he goes thank you and then gave

me my four dollars back and it was on the bar and i was like do you want to go sit and then he picks up the money and hands it to me and i was like oh do you want to go sit? And then he picks up the money and hands it to me, and I was like, oh, no, I want him to have it. So then he puts $2 down and then hands me the other two, and I went, oh, no, just give it all to him? And he was like, wow. And I was like, okay. And then that was the first thing where I was like, okay, that's very strange.

And then there was too many lulls in the conversation. I don't know you well enough to just sit in a comfortable silence because I'm uncomfortable. Do you go into that with some, like, prepared, like, topics of conversation that you know you can go for a while on? Not prepared things. But I, like, well, I have, like have go-to things. I don't like soup. I don't know why you think you're going to be able to talk about that for a long time. That is a four-word conversation.

I mean, I was going for a while about how soup is trash, and how I don't like it, and and it's bad and I don't get why people like it. And then was he like, I like soup? No. He said, I don't want to say that you're negative, but you're negative. And I was like, okay, well, I mean, is there anything in this world that you hate? And he said injustice and i was like okay i was like cool cool so then i said me too i hate injustice i hate the injustice of soup being served in restaurants and he didn't laugh and that's when i was like okay this is done like oh yeah that was very

funny that i brought it back to suit yeah that was a a great line and if you can't appreciate that that relationship is doomed so then in the bar men are so unfunny he was like the he was just so boring and he so we were sitting in a clear view of a back door. And on the way to the back door is a bathroom. And I was like, what if I like go to the bathroom and then leave? But I was like, I can't do that. Oh, no. That is so mean.

So then I was just like, okay, we're done with our drinks. I'll leave after this drink. And because we'd only been there for like 20 minutes, maybe a half hour. You got to stick it out at least 45. Yeah. And then he was like, do you want to go somewhere that takes cards? And I was like, this is your route. This is your route.

Oh, also, I ran into a friend. My friend Deb had walked past. And I was like, Deb, hi. How are you? I was like, I will do your podcast. Do you want to talk about dates now? She was like, oh, I'll email you. I went, okay.

And then when I saw her today, I was like, I want you to take me away. I want you to have an emergency. And she was like, I didn't know. She was like, I didn't know if I was interrupting. And I was like, I would have loved the interruption. But anyway. Nicole, how do you not go into this with a, like, I might have to go to my friends going away party oh i don't i guess i should have said that i live in atwater you can always text me and be like you have to have a

friend on call being like hey it's going bad i need you to text me and say you know yeah i guess i should start doing that because the last time i lied to a man, okay, I've lied to two men and I felt very bad about it. Oh, you're just a bad liar. Oh yes. Very bad. I had one, one where we had a bad dinner and then we were supposed to go mini golfing and

he smelled like a dish rag. And I was like, I can't. Oh man. Continue. It's just the easiest thing you can do. It's so easy to just take a fucking shower before a date. And I say this as a very smelly person with no leg to stand on.

But he just, oh, it was terrible. So then I told him, I like kept talking about work because I was like, I'll never see this person again. I don't care if you know what I do. So then he, we were like walking to our cars to go mini golfing. And I was like, oh my goodness, my showrunner is calling me. Hello? Oh, Christine. And we were walking to our cars to go mini golfing. And I was like, oh my goodness, my showrunner's calling me. Hello? Oh, Christine.

Oh my. You need a script when? 8 a.m. It was very poorly acted. And if he knew anything about television, nobody needs a script at 8 a.m. Not one person ever. And I was like, oh no. And then also he was so far away that he didn't even hear my fake phone call so then i had to text him anyway that i needed to go home and do some work and then he's like oh man i wish i had known why would i given you a proper

goodbye i was like oh i don't know what that means i hate it and then, it means a smooch. Ugh. Gross. Also, he was like in an open relationship and I was like, you big dumb ginger who smells like a dishrag. How? Do you already have one person who's okay with that

and you're looking to get another one? Ugh. He was so gross. And then this other guy. Wait, okay, before we move on to this, I just want to say,

I think what you need to do is have your alibi be true. Maybe. Because then you won't be lying. Yes. Because then you could just like actually make plans with someone for an hour after the date starts. And then if the date's going well, text your friend and be like, I need you to blow me off. And then have your friend be like, cancel on you. That's smart.

That's so smart. Well, one date I went on, I scheduled a show for after. So I was like, I have to go, I have a show. But then it was going so well that it was abrupt. Well, if it's going well, they'd be like, do you want to come to the show? And then you hit them with the razzle dazzle.

But then it's like, then I would have to think about like, oh, I gotta change this single joke where I'm like, I'm a garbage monster and I'm single. You gotta do all your jokes about how you're the best in the world wonderful at sucking your dick and the crowd's like there's no joke and i'm like i'm just announcing it who here is good at sucking dick is it just me just me in this room? Oh, boy. The second time I lied. So I matched with this guy who looked fine. And I said, do you want to hook up?

Because I was real horny. And he was like, no, I need to go out with someone first. And I was like, ugh, fine. What do you want to do? He was like, either you can come over and we can have wine or we can go to a bar. And I was like, wine? And he's like, can we go out to a bar. And I was like, wine? And he's like, can we go out to a bar? And I was like, all right.

So I meet him at Good Luck Bar and he is so boring. He's like a server at Denny's and he's like, I'm just really trying to break into television. And I was like, oh boy, I don't want to date anybody with dreams. I want people to be living their dreams. Yeah. And he just like talked a lot about himself. And he, like, wouldn't let me speak. And then when he finally let me speak, he was like, what do you do?

I was like, oh, I'm a comedian. And he's like, yeah, but, like, what do you do for money? And I was like, oh, I make money doing comedy. And he's like, yeah, right. And I was like, all right. Cool. Oh, my God. Cool.

And then his nails were very long. Have you ever seen Interview with the Vampire? No. No one has. Their nails are very long and oval-like. And that's what his were like. And they creep me the fuck out. And all I could think of is, if that man fingers me, he is going to rip me up.

See, aren't you glad that you went out? I'm so glad that I didn't just go to his house and get those creepy little finger fangs near me. And then he came out of the, so he goes to the bathroom, comes back out and he's like, all right, do you like want to get out of here? And I was like, Ooh, no, actually I have a flight tomorrow. And he was like, what? And I was like, I forgot to say that I have a very early flight. And it's true. I did have a flight. It was just at noon, but early is relative. Yeah. Who knows? So then it takes a long time to get to LAX. It does. It's terrible. There's security. But that's early is relative. Yeah, who knows? So then.

It takes a long time to get to LAX. It does. It's terrible. There's security. The TSA is awful. So then he walks me out to my car, hugs me harder than I've ever been hugged by a stranger, and whispered in my ear, let me know when you're back. I was like, okay.

And then as I was getting into my car, I got a Tinder alert, and he had said the same thing on Tinder. I was like, no, thank you. I don't want this. Then I just never messaged him again. Then he messaged me a couple weeks after. He was like, I know who you are. You're Nicole Byer. A couple of my writer friends know who you are.

I was like, okay. That's not a comforting sexual message. No, it was very, very strange and almost threatening. Yeah. One thing I really didn't like about online dating, especially when I lived in San Francisco, for some reason it was creepier to me then than it was in New York or LA, was there were definitely a few guys who would message me who I didn't want to go out with, who I just wouldn't write back to. And like at least once one of them started coming to shows and it's like,

oh, fuck, my entire calendar is online. Like I am so easy to stop. That is the thing about it. That's like a little terrifying. That is scary. We're going to talk more about Tinder and dating, but we got gotta take a break oh boy a lot of us have been feeling the sting of being socially distanced for months now compounded by the prospects of being crammed inside during the cold months and the craziness of the upcoming election, which might be done already, but who knows? We gotta have some self-care. Feel Good Filth is kink-positive erotic role plays for people who like that. So a lot of people use imagination and it's a huge role in arousal. So Feel Good Filth creates immersive kinky audio

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Plus, free shipping on every order. Get 20% off at Nutrafol.com. Spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com. Promo code DATEME. So, do you have a website? I have like a Tumblr page. I have a URL that just redirects to my Tumblr, but my Tumblr has like my calendar on it.

Yeah, that is, I never even thought of that with online dating, that it's so easy to be like, I know this woman, I know her first name, I have found her social media, and now I know where's so easy to be like, I know this woman. I know her first name. I have found her social media and now I know where she's going to be. Yeah. Most of the week.

Yeah. Also, it's like, I mean, I'm sure there are a bunch of comedians named Emily in L.A., but in San Francisco at the time, it was like a pretty small scene. So it was really easy for people to find out who I was. Oof. That's scary. Yeah, it was a little scary. I, like, the one, there was, like, one time when I had someone pretend to be my boyfriend at a show.

But then I was like, but I'm still on OkCupid. He can see me. Like, what am I doing? He's like, that's not true. Yeah. She don't have a boyfriend. Yeah. Ugh, that's, I haven't had any creepers at my

shows uh i'm trying to think just a man recently who cheered for rape and that was nuts oh god i didn't even think twice about it till this girl uh she like tweeted about it and i was like oh i guess that was wild i have a joke about how a man on tinder was like what are you black Puerto Rican Mexican or whatever and then I was like black and he's like whatever that was my indifference then I was like well what are you white rapey white privileged white or white trash and then he was like rapey white and it's the most fun because people don't see it coming and I was was like, that's insane. That's a crazy thing. And when I said that chunk, this man roared with like, just like happiness. He was like, ah!

And I was like, whoa, what a crazy reaction. You think this is too funny. When I bring up rape, I need to like add to it for it to be funny. Yeah. And I, it was just so, we're living in this strangest time right now. It is. It's a really weird fucking time. It's like a fucking shit show. I want a boyfriend, but I don't like men right now. Yeah. I mean, and that's the thing is it is really fucking hard to find someone who like gets it.

You know what I mean? There's so much working against you finding someone. Yeah. It's like, first of all, like, okay, all of the factors working against you finding someone who's good for you. Most men are garbage. There's that. Like, most men have no vested interest in feminism. And what else? Most men are trained to not want relationships, whereas women are trained to want relationships. Which is so annoying. It's annoying because it already narrows the number of men that we're all fucking competing for.

And then what else? And then what else? Like most relationships kind of skew like older, like older men with younger women. Yes. And anyway, just all of those things add up to it's really, really hard to find someone who's like a decent guy. Mm-hmm. And yeah. And then adding on top of that, that like you're a very charismatic person. I'm just so loud. Well, but it's also it's like you're a very charismatic person. So not a lot of people are going to live up to your standards. Yes, I'm constantly lowering my standards. I constantly look at men and go, I can deal with this. I can define the good in this person i mean there's a lot of ugly men

that i've slept with because i was like i mean it might be better maybe your personality is good well and being horny is a cool thing oh being horny i've been horny for maybe a full year. I definitely like before me and my boyfriend started dating, I was basically single for seven years. And I by the time I met him, I was at a point where I was like. I really I learned how to do it well, where I was like, I like myself. I like my brain. I like what's happening in my life.

And if I end up single again, I'll be okay with it, you know? But at the same time, it was like, or I'm going to be single forever because it's been seven years and I haven't found anyone that I like. And so it's it's a double edged sword.

Truly. Did you know that you liked your boyfriend? Like, when did you know that you were like, I want to be in this for a while? I mean, it was pretty early on. I don't know if I am like more or less romantic, but I am pretty like calculating a little bit in relationships because I don't really like, I'm a super cautious person in my life. I have a lot of anxiety. I kind of think things through to their like conclusions. I also don't let myself get strung along by people. So like, I don't get into a lot of messy situations. Like the second something is messy, I'm out. So for me with my boyfriend, it was the fact that like pretty early on, I could tell that there weren't that many things that could go wrong,

aside from just the basic normal ones. Like he didn't seem to be hung up on anyone. He didn't want kids, which I also don't want. He was easy to talk to. He seemed into me. He's read more feminist theory than I have. Like it was like pretty early on. I was like, oh, I think this could go somewhere. And that is what let me like, I kind of feel like I do that analysis before I let myself start feeling stuff for someone, especially when it's like starting from online dating where you really are starting at like zero. There's no like rapport. There's no, there's rarely is there like a ton of chemistry with someone you've just met. You kind of have to choose to be open to what someone's offering you and to think about it like go it

you're going in kind of blind and with him it was like i have enough information to figure out like this is basically like from what i've learned about myself and what i know that i want and what i know that i don't want like this is someone who is like has a lot of the things that i'm looking for doesn't possess some of the qualities that my exes have had that I know don't work for me. But then he also like made some like we started dating in August and my birthday was in October. And he was like, we should go to Disneyland for your birthday or something fun like that. And I was like, oh, my God, he's not afraid of me knowing that he likes me. And he also likes me. And it was like and later on, like when we had been dating for a lot longer, he told me, he was like, yeah, I wanted you to know that I was okay.

Like that I liked you. That's so sweet. I wanted to do that because I wanted you to know that like, yeah, I'm like ready for this. And so it was like a nice thing. ready for this um and so it was like a nice thing but it was like he and i are both very like practical people and like realistic people we're not like crazy emotional or like i don't know i feel like i have a lot of friends who get into like really tumultuous relationships and that's never been me i've always been very like first sign of drama i'm usually out um and like i don't put up with bullshit um and so yeah for that also i like that he was also kind of like that so our relationship hasn't been

super dramatic or anything it was very like okay so we agree on these key the key premise of of what a relationship is and i am i don't think i like drama but a man can be like hey nicole i don't like you and i'd go but maybe you will tomorrow and i don't know why i'm like that i don't i mean i definitely i used be really like, okay with being kind of strung along because I was like, I was young and I was like, I don't know if I even want a boyfriend. So I'll just act like your girlfriend and be okay with the fact that you just say you don't want a girlfriend, but you're making me do all the things a girlfriend would do, but still be fucking other people. And I would just kind of like, I would explain it to myself in a way that was okay. And then I don't know what happened. Something switched. It was like, I got into

another one of those situations where a guy was stringing me along and I couldn't tell what was happening. And we were like flirting a lot. And then he was just like, I just don't think I'm like ready to be in a relationship right now. And it was the for the first like, in the past, I'd been like, that's okay. I don't think I want one either. Like we can just keep sleeping together. Like, and then this time I was just like, I think I was like, you know, maybe like 28 or something. And I was just like, Oh, bye. I just got too old for this. I don't know. Like, I guess it happened yesterday. But I am too old for this now I think I'm finally too old no I'm not I was just chasing this man I like this dude we had dated for a

little bit in the summer and then he like drifted away and then I like would just like keep texting him and then we would text a bunch and then it would stop and then i would text him again and we would text a bunch and then finally i was like very drunk i was this was last sunday i was very drunk at mickey's in west hollywood and the shot boy just kept bringing his shots and what was his name javier i don't know he was very very sweet and i was like i'm having boy trouble and i like told him the situation he was like you need to tell him how you feel. If you tell him how you feel and he doesn't respond, that's your answer. Or if you tell him how you feel and he responds with something you don't want to hear, that's also your answer.

He's like, you just need to just get it out and you'll know. And I was like, you're right. So I was very drunk. And also I was like blacked out by 8 p.m. And he was like, so I like messaged him. I was like, I right so I was very drunk and also I was like blacked out by 8pm and he was like so I like messaged him I was like I've been thinking about you if you're not feeling the same way then like let me know so like I can

stop texting and he's like well I started seeing someone else so like if you're looking for something romantic maybe it's best to like part ways and I was like that's not the answer I wanted but I have the answer now and now you can move on. And I can move on, but still obsessively look at his Instagram that he doesn't update. Oh, yeah.

Well, you're never going to stop doing that. Very annoying. I will say when I was in college, I was dating this guy and I was like crazy about him. And we've been dating for like a month. And then he started to get kind of like freaked out about it and he basically like kind of like didn't break up with me but he was like I have feelings for someone else and I was really like torn up about it and I was like but he's not breaking up with me and what we have is so good and I was talking to my sister about it. And my sister was like, Emily, you deserve to be with someone

who knows he wants to be with you. And I was like, I do. And so the next day I told him, I was like, I deserve to be with someone who knows they want to be with me. If you figure out that's you, let me know. And then like five months later or something, we got back together.

And he apparently tried to got back together and he apparently tried to get back together with me before that and I was just like too much of a bitch I was just like you are jerking me around I was like still like I was still very Whitney Houston about it and so he was like I don't want to jerk her around but then it was like when we got back together we were like see we dated for another like two years and it was like oh and it was like kind of on my terms because he knew that like I wasn't gonna settle for any wishy-washy and I will say like I've had a few other situations with guys where like they like me they want to know that I like them and they want to like get the like ego satisfaction of like knowing I would hook up with them but they don't want to like actually be with me or whatever.

And like every time that I've been in that situation and I've said, you know, like I deserve to be with someone who knows they want to be with me. Let me know if you figure out that's you. They all have eventually come back and said that. Really? Yeah. And it's,

I've never taken them up on it after that first time, but I will say it's like, even if it doesn't work, it's a good thing to believe. It is a good thing to believe. And this is great that we're talking about it because I think I'm going to like hold that in my heart that I because I feel like people have said it to me. But then they haven't been like and I put this into practice because people have said, Nicole, you deserve to be with someone who wants to be with you. But no one's like like I I did. And it worked. I mean, the other thing too, is it's like, I was single for a long time, probably as a result of it. Cause I wouldn't put up with, uh, you know, like wishy-washy bullshit. But at the same time, it's like, but I like being single

more than most people. So I'm like, I don't know. I feel like a lot of times the advice that I give people, very few people follow it because you have to like. I'm going to do it. But so I have no no illusion that you are going to change your life with it. But I do think that like that's something that has been kind of a mantra with me. And I don't think it's steered me wrong. I don't think so either. think it's steered me wrong. I don't think so either. You're in a nice loving relationship and it's a healthy

self-esteem thing to be like any person who wants to be with me should want to be with me. Yeah. I spend a lot of time and waste a lot of energy and a lot of my money talking to a therapist about how I'm chasing a man or like I like this guy

but he did this awful thing to me but I think I can forgive him because of x y and z and she's just like it's talk therapy so she's not gonna ever be like that's insane that's wrong she'll just be like well why do you why do you want to forgive him and then sometimes I feel like in therapy I talk myself into being like I'm okay this This behavior is okay. Until like a month later, I'll be like, oh, now I understand why it's bad and wrong. I'm sorry, Mary. Don't apologize to me into your life. Okay, Mary. I also think, and this is something that I like try to talk about on stage as much as I can. I definitely talked about it when I was single and I'm still trying to figure out

the best way to do it now that I'm in a relationship. But that like I spent so long when I was single thinking like, I just want a boyfriend. I just want a boyfriend without thinking about the fact that like a boyfriend isn't the end of loneliness. It's not the end of unhappiness. It's not the end of you like not liking yourself. Like any problems you have when you're single, you will still have when you're in a relationship. And like, I like I'm in a happy relationship, but I still get lonely. I still get sad. Like I still get frustrated. Like I'm just not as horny. You know what I mean? But like, Oh, I know. I'm dying not to be horny. I mean, that's like, honestly, the only thing you can count on changing in a relationship.

But I just feel like we need to stop selling relationships as the answer to a problem of being single. It's they're both different ways of living your life that have advantages and disadvantages and being in a relationship. There's no point at which it magically stops being work. You feel like it's going to be a relief of the work of looking for someone, but it's like, no, it's like, it's the work of like being with another person and making room for someone else in your life. And like, there are tangible things that you give up to

make that happen. And like, and like what i mean like your independence oh yeah i guess there's someone always there i mean and for me it's like you know i love my boyfriend we live together it's great etc in a great place yeah but it's like okay if we're ever like fighting i'm not gonna pretend like we don't fight my brain is thinking about that for an hour it's not thinking about jokes. It's not thinking about my pilot script. It's thinking about the fight I'm in with my boyfriend because he matters to me a lot. And I remember reaching this point when I was single where I was like, holy fuck, I'm

spending so much time alone in my brain. I'm thinking of such cool shit. You know what I mean? And at the beginning of a relationship for the first year, I'm like, it's him all day every day that's what's in my brain there's nothing else there and it's like that kind of sucks like I would say that's like a tangible thing that I gave up like thinking about him takes up you know your relationship takes time and energy and like you have to care about someone else's needs and there's some cool really cool shit about being single that i wish people appreciated more i do enjoy my independence i do enjoy that i can pick up and leave and go wherever i want and i have to be like hey

i'm gonna go do this you want to come yeah you want to come and i'll wait for you on the other side because you don't have tsa pre-check that's very funny and i've seen that happen a couple and i enjoy it every time i watch it where they like hug and it's like i'm just going tsa pre-check and then she like zip zips and then uh he's just like waving at her just waiting i also i can't fathom someone in my bed. I do things at night. Sometimes I eat treats in bed. Oh, there's like definitely a lot of gross stuff that I've had to stop doing now that me and my boyfriend live together. Things where it's like he'll just ask a question in a way where I'm like, oh, I'm gross. Oh, God.

Yeah, I do gross things too. And I'm like, when I'm alone, I have a roommate, but when he's not there, I don't use silverware. I use my mouth to cut things. This you've told me before, and that is not normal. I'm going to shame you about this because I think you need to experience the shame. You know it's not normal. I know. So you just eat with your hands? Yep. I eat with my hands. I. I eat with my hands.

I'll cut things with my mouth and spit it into my hand and then eat it. Why is that easier than using a knife and fork? Because then I don't have to wash anything. Nicole. I know. I'm nasty. I feel like you can. You don't have a dishwasher?

No, I do. I do. I just don't want to dirty anything that I don't have a dishwasher? No, I do. I do. I just don't want to, like, dirty anything that I don't need to dirty. But you're dirtying your hands. Yeah, but then you just, like, kind of wash them. Yeah, but that's what you would do with the silverware. It doesn't take less time to wash your hands than it does to wash a fork. I know.

I think it's just the older I get, the weirder I get with how I eat food. I eat most of my food with my fingers. It's gross. And I know it's gross. And I apologize all the time. I'm just trying to picture what kind of food you're talking about. Salad. I eat salad with my fingers. I'll pull out all the chicken or like the tomatoes and the cucumber. And then sometimes I'll eat the, I'll dip, I'll pick the lettuce and dip it in dressing and eat it. What's crazy about this to me is like the whole point of putting things like chicken and tomatoes on salad is to like trick you into eating the lettuce in the same bite with it. And you're just ruining that. And you're picking all the good stuff out and then you're just left with lettuce that you just have to eat as lettuce.

That's so stupid. I'm sorry. It is very stupid because then I get mad at all the lettuce at the bottom. Yeah. You're supposed to mix it up. I didn't even think of it like that. I guess. You got, I mean.

Sometimes I'll take bites with the lettuce. The way I eat is so gross. And I feel at restaurants, I'm very conscious of it. And I go, restaurants, I'm very conscious of it. I go, use your fucking knife. But it's not, you're like, breathe in, breathe out. It's not natural for me. I'm like, okay, I have to do this. I'd rather just like pick things.

At a restaurant, you don't have to wash the silverware. I know. So it's not about that. But I feel bad somebody has to. Yeah, but they're going to wash it regardless. I guess I just really like using my hands. Yeah. Like there's nothing better than sticking a little fingy in some mashed potatoes and

taking a little dollop. Oh, man. I'm gross. Like I'm not grossed out by the idea of you doing that, but like thinking about me doing that, I'm like, oh, well, now I have to wipe my hand off. No, but you, it's in your mouth. No, but it's like because then it's wet and then I'm uncomfortable with it being wet. Your mouth cleaned it. Here's the thing. Why are you single?

Is it because people can hear this podcast? Maybe they're like, Oh, she's disgusting. Emily, I have a question. Okay. We are, we are friends and we're not in a place where we would date. But if we were in a place and we're attracted to each other, would you date me? Like if I was attracted to you? Yeah. I mean, yeah. But like, wait, okay, let me think about this. Okay. think about this okay because i think you do have some qualities that like possibly my ex-boyfriends

have had that has ruled me out ruled them out as like okay like things where i'm like i've tried that it didn't work for me like you're are you like you're slightly irresponsible i think that's safe to say i left my car door open today in the garage. Yeah. See, I don't think I could hang with that anymore at this point in my life. I think what would happen is, and this happened with an ex of mine, is like, I would just scold you so much that you would hate me. And you would not act spontaneous and fun around me anymore and we would grow to

despise each other oh boy you know what i mean and i think that there's someone out there for you but it's not me i need to be with someone who's like gonna i don't know are you late to stuff all the time yeah i don't think I can hang with that. Okay. I'm like, I'm like a little bit late, but like people who are late consistently, I can't date. All right. Yeah. But I would want to date you and then I would know it was a bad idea and I wouldn't let myself fall in love with you. All right. I'll take it.

But your house is really cool. So that might prolong the time between when we started dating and when i broke up with you here's another weird thing about dating i have to like time out when i'll bring a boy to my house oh why well one i don't want bad juju in my house oh i don't want to like if we go on like if we date for a month and then i bring him over to my house and then we like just stop dating then i'll be sad yeah i brought sadness into my happy place yeah my house makes me really happy i don't think that's good your house is gonna stop making you really happy i don't know it might if i keep bringing dudes into it i i feel like it's like how you don't want to keep introducing a child to your many boyfriends yeah but your house i don't know my house is my baby i think you can cleanse your house of that

kind of energy if you believe in it i had a an apartment before me and my boyfriend moved in together i had like my first ever apartment that was just me living there and i loved it so much and every dude i brought there other than my boyfriend was absolute trash and it didn't make me love the apartment any less then you moved out of it but then i did move out and i was genuinely sad too oh okay that was a good apartment it was a good it was a great location it was a good size it had it was like small it had really high ceilings and it felt big and it was just like it was nice and no amount of dumb boys could ruin it i read a book that i really liked that really changed the way i thought about relationships that was called the course of love by elaine

de baton and you know as with all work produced by men i just hope that we haven't found out he's a serial sexual predator between now and when this podcast is released oh boy um but it's like a very strong argument for uh realistic expectations in relationships and for examining where your ideas about relationships come from because one thing that i realized about myself is that like a lot of my ideas about what a relationship should be or should feel like or should look like come from movies and absolutely no movie is written with an eye toward like perfectly representing reality you know what I mean like most of the movies that deal with romance they're interested in telling a story and not with dealing with the mundanity

of like doing the work of being in a good relationship. And most stories that we tell about relationships are about getting into them and not sustaining them. And so like compatibility is not a prerequisite for a relationship. It's an accomplishment of a relationship. Was my big takeaway from that book. You shouldn't be looking for the person who has all of the requirements that you're looking for, who's going to perfectly satisfy all your needs. What you should look for is someone who you're willing who you like enough who likes you enough who you have enough of the same goals in common that you're willing to work toward being

compatible with each other so you're willing to work toward their damage and they're willing to work toward your damage like everyone's damaged everyone's got some fucked up thing about them it's a matter of like finding someone who's got fucked up in this that works with your fucked up in this that you're willing to like work on your fucked up in this for i hope fucked up in this goes in the dictionary this year it is a great word we all know it's gonna be kofifi oh kofifi he deleted that tweet right i don't know not allowed to delete tweets whatever he's a nightmare he's the worst person alive oh boy well maybe he'll be impeached by the time this comes out i hope so but i don't think he will i think he'll do a second term if he is everybody's getting fucked that night

who wants to i hope after the election my tinder blew up really very much with white guilt or what i think so wow it's just like a bunch of white guys are like i'm so sorry After the election, my Tinder blew up. Really? It very much blew up. With white guilt or what? Yes, I think so. Wow. It was just like a bunch of white guys that were like, I'm so sorry this happened. Maybe if I fuck her, I will feel better. Oh, I hope you cashed in on that.

I did not. You didn't get that? You didn't get that? No. The older I get, the less I'm like, I don't want one night stands anymore. Oh, another interesting thing about the OKCupid blog. They did one about age and about like what people what age people say they're interested in versus who they actually message. They compared that data.

They found that like men consistently message at the lowest possible age of what they say they're interested in. And with women, there's an interesting thing where at the age of 27, there's a slight spike in like when women are 27, there's a slight spike in them messaging younger men. And then at 28, a big spike in the messaging older men. So between 27 and 28 is when women give up on younger men. Oh, that's 28 is the age when you're like, I'm too old for this shit. I hit that late i hit that at 30 30 yeah 30 i was like i'm fucking done i'm done with these men and now at 31 i've gone lower i've been like you know what maybe i gave up too soon on the young men maybe there's a good 22-year-old out there. I can't even say that in a normal way because I know there isn't a good 22-year-old man out there for me.

I feel like with you, here's what I see happening. I think you're going to meet someone in real life. Okay. I think you're either going to meet someone in real life who you like work with or something who you have like an undeniable connection. Because I don't think what's attractive about you could possibly come through on a dating website. But then I also think it's either going to be that or it's going to be a fan. You think? Yeah.

I feel like that's what you need. It's like you need someone. I'm a data fan. Yeah. But they can't be creepy yeah someone who's like respects your boundaries and you know just thinks you're really like cool and funny and already knows what they're getting into you know what i mean because i feel like obviously you are a fat black woman people are gonna people are gonna come at you with a lot of

preconceived notions about all three of those things and you're up against a lot i think that's an honest thing to say right like yes you're the second person to say that yeah he was like yeah you got a lot on your shoulders so i was like okay yeah i mean the data shows. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And data, data don't lie. So I just feel like, yeah, you would be better off with someone who knows you. I think you're right. I think it's easier for someone who knows me than like coming in cold and being like, I'm a lot.

Hello. Because I know I'm a lot. Although lately I've been trying to like actually go on dates with people and not just sleep with them. I, on the way to the date, just tell myself, I'm like, just bring it down. Just bring it down. Just bring it down. Just bring it down a little bit. And then when I went out with that man who was little with the stutter, I woke up from a nap and was like, I don't want to go on a date.

And then Millheiser, my roommate's nap and was like i don't want to go on a date and then mill heiser his my roommate's boyfriend was like you should go you should go on that date you never know and he looked at his pictures he's like nicole he could be so cute and funny and i was like you're right i'll go and i got there and was like i was right i should have kept sleeping yeah but you wouldn't have known that you were right. You're right. You're right. I would never have known.

Yeah. I think the problem when you are like, the problem is like, it's such a time investment to just like see what's out there that when you're a busy person, you're like, I can't afford this. The opportunity cost is too high. I was like, I wasted either just having a real early sleep into the next day i wasted that because i had worked all week and i was like that would have been delicious yeah it was so nice to go to sleep i definitely wake up at the next day the busier i get or like the busier i got when I was single the more I would resent bad dates because I would be like I had one night and I spent it with you fucking with you you fucking idiot boring loser

so boring what do you hate injustice soup is bad and I hate it Emily do you have anything that you want to plug okay um I have a podcast called baby geniuses and i might be on tour right now i'm recording a new album in portland in january so come to that if you live in portland and in general i have an album called good for her on kill rock stars and it's very funny emily heller is one of the funniest people i know she's like a fucking monster when it comes to writing jokes, and it's a delicious delight. Where are you recording your album in Portland? I think at the Curious Comedy Theater. We're still pinning down the dates.

It could all fall apart between now and when this is released. So if you're listening and you like listening to Emily, go to her website. Yeah. What is it? Just Google Emily Heller. Oh, yeah, just google Emily Heller don't go to emilyheller.com super easy to google people

I'm at Mr. Emily Heller on all platforms which is very funny is she a miss? I don't know I'm a doctor I'm not really a doctor when I go to hotels I tell them I'm a doctor or I say Nicole Byer III.

Which is so dumb. And I just like to do that. But if you like this podcast, please subscribe and rate it on iTunes. And if you rate it, please write a comment. And if you write a comment where you hit on me, I'll read it. Here's an example. Nicole Byer, your booty's so fat,icole byer your booty so fat i just want to slap it so it bounces to the moon and back or uh is that a compliment uh i think i think it's

a compliment yeah somebody wants to slap my butt to the moon and back uh here's another one uh i wanna i wanna go cave diving right in your pussy. Here's another one. Usually I read them, but I haven't gotten any good ones lately. So here's another one. Oh, girl, I want to drive all over you like you the road. That's crazy. That's bad. If you get one just as bad, I'll read it.

Thank you so much. Bye bye. Bye. that was a hate gum podcast this has been a team coco production