Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer - Why Everybody Needs Therapy (w/ Therapist John Kim)

Episode Date: November 8, 2019

Licensed therapist John Kim (aka The Angry Therapist, author of I Used to Be a Miserable F*ck) discusses the stigma stopping many PoC to join therapy, the challenges of being vulnerable as a therapist, and how long it takes to get over a breakup.Text John Kim at theangrytherapist.comYou can play along and see Nicole's dating app profiles and photos on her Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/pg/NicoleByerComedyBe sure to rate Why Won't You Date Me 5-stars on Apple Podcasts. Leave a dirty comment for a chance to have it read on-air.Follow Nicole Byer:Tour Dates: nicolebyerwastaken.com/tourdatesTwitter: @nicolebyerInstagram: @nicolebyerFacebook: www.facebook.com/nicolebyercomedyBuy Merch: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/nicole-byer?ref_id=964

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why! Oh baby, it's another episode of Why Won't You Date Me, a podcast where me, Nicole Byer, tries to figure out how I'm still single, even though if you jizzed in a cup and made me keep it for several days until it got hard and you wanted me to sprinkle it on all my food like nutritional yeast,

I would do it. How gross. You don't know me. This is such a strange introduction, but I always try to say something nasty up top during the episode at the end. I'm just a little nasty bitch. Okay. I'm just explaining myself to my guest. His name is John Kim. He's known as the angry therapist. He's got a book called I Used to Be a Miserable Fuck. And he's got a company called Journey, which helps you on your journey. It's John Kim! Hello, John. How are you?

Is that a true story with the cum in a jar? Are you making that up? No. No. I kind of just say it's—I say I'm single even though I would do this awful thing if you asked me to do it. You rotate the awful thing. Yes. But in real life, I don't think I could do that.

That's disgusting. Sprinkle it like pepper. Yeah. I don't think I could really do it because it just doesn't really have a flavor. No, but it's got protein. Does it? Yes. Like real protein? Yeah. And, but it's got protein. Does it? Yes. Like real protein?

Yeah, and I think people, no joke, I think they put it on their faces because it's good for your skin, I heard. Because of the protein in it. Interesting. Oh, I think I've heard about semen facials. Yeah, like legit facials. Not what we see in porn. But where are they getting it from? Is there a donation center?

I don't know. Who's doing that? If I wanted that on my face, I would want to know where it came from. Yes, I would like to know if it was ethically sourced. Right, grass-fed, organic. Were they stressed as they kicked it? Exactly, exactly. I want to see the DNA.

I want to see where it came from, what that person's skin's like. Okay. John, may I ask, why did you coin yourself the angry therapist? Or did you have clients who were like, my boy, he angry. Yeah. I used to be angry in my 20s. I was angry because I was unhappy. So 10 years ago, I went through a divorce.

Okay. And then I kind of just had to start my life all over. And at the time tumblr was popular and i i didn't know what to do with my time and i didn't have any friends uh my mom bought me this little macbook because korean people they just buy you korean parents buy things when you're hurting oh that's yeah they gave me they wanted to give me their forerunner i was like i don't need that i need a hug but she bought me this little computer and i was like you know what what if i started a blog for me and and I called it the angry therapist and I didn't think anyone would read it

and my very first post was called my fucking feelings and I just started talking about how heartbroken I was and then I think people thought it was interesting that a therapist was talking about his love journey and so I didn't know that at the time but I pulled the curtain back and they're like oh here's a therapist talking about his love journey. And so I didn't know that at the time, but I pulled the curtain back. And they're like, oh, here's a therapist talking about his feelings. That's weird. Interesting. I think it's so funny that people think it's interesting

because I think people put therapists on a pedestal where they're like, they're helping me. So obviously their life is better than mine. They have it more together than mine. And that's not the case. No, no, no. They just went to school to be able to learn, to give you tools to help you. Sometimes it's hard to apply it for yourself. Yeah. You know, like Phil Jackson can take the

Lakers to the world championships, but he can't necessarily throw free throws. Like, yes. You know what I'm saying? So, absolutely. So you're a coach, you're a catalyst, you're a guide. What I don't like about the, I don't know what you want to call it, the socialization of the therapist is that we're supposed to be very private. And so if you ask me a personal question in our therapy room, if you're my client, I would flip it on you and say, you know, I wonder where that's coming from or whatever. By doing so, I'm not humanizing myself. And so I think that's why people think therapists are, you know, this shining, like, perfect relationships and they don't have feelings and, you know, they have all these tools. It's not true. We're human. We go through our own shit.

We just, we're not supposed to show it. I decided to show it. I like that. My therapist also humanizes herself. Not that she tells me a ton about her life i don't know very much about her life but if i have a problem that we're trying to work through she'll tell me a story that applies to me from her life yeah uh but then it does flip back to me to you right uh but in a not in a sneaky way i don't want to say she's like tricking me into being like oh i thought

about it we arrived at this answer but it's helpful for me to have somebody who has a conversation with me. Yeah. Because I've had therapists who just go, yes, okay. Sure. And that made you feel. And why are you asking me that? I'm like, because I'm curious. Yeah, yeah.

That's why I ask. That's why anybody asks the question. And they just kind of become a cardboard cutout. Yes. Yeah. And I like my therapist because she's not a cardboard cutout. She has feelings. And I tell her things and sometimes she'll just go,

that fucking sucks until we can figure, until she figures out a way to help me through it. I love that. And sometimes it happens in that session but sometimes she like

sleeps on it and then the next session has a really beautiful thing to say to me that helps me and makes sense. I, you know, I've been listening to your episodes

and you seem very pro therapy. Oh, you love it. I think everybody should be in therapy. I think the government should give you some sort of stipend to have a couple sessions a year. I don't think it's healthy for you to only tell your friends your problems or if you're in public, a stranger. I've had so many people just lay their shit on me and I'm like, oh, I don't want an airplane. I've never wanted to know anything about you. So, yeah, I'm a huge, huge supporter. Why do you think people don't see therapists that much? It's a stigma. I think, well, in the black community specifically, it is a stigma. Well, Asian, too, for sure. Yeah.

Yeah, Koreans. is a or asian too for sure yeah yeah koreans so maybe yeah it's a stigma of people of color because i think we're told to be strong to persevere pull yourself up and there's something wrong with your own shit yeah yeah it's like oh there's something wrong with you why are you on medication it's like oh well it truly has helped my life that's why i'm on it right uh i've done different cocktails with my psychiatrist and truly i'm on'm on Vyvanse, which is for my ADD. And then she just prescribed me vitamin D pills because I think I'm a little, I have a little seasonal depression. Yeah. So when it's not sunny out, I go, why are we all alive?

But when it's sunny, I'm like, I love living. So she was like, let's get some vitamin D in you. Let's see how that works. Oh. As opposed to like Wellbutrin or whatever. Yeah, I like that. I like that. I like that, too.

I like that she mixes natural stuff with medication. So it truly is just like you got to find the person who fits you. And that might take a while. Sure. I just got a DM from a nice friend. I don't know him, but he said he's been on a journey trying to find a therapist for like 10 years. Wow.

And that is a long time. 10 years is a long time. Very long time. And I was trying to think of advice to give this person. And I think my advice is like, you got to look at the people around you. If no one is like you, it might be hard to find somebody that's easy to talk to. Like if you live in a very tiny town and maybe you're queer and there's no

queer people there, that might be hard. So you have a tech service with Journey? Is that what you were saying? No, I text people myself under the Angry Therapist. Oh, okay. And then Journey is a coaching company that I have that's a startup and that's its own thing. It's bigger than me. Ah, okay. So it's a separate, but it's the same in that we are all trying to help people help people and change the temperature of wellness. And even like, you know, therapy with my story, showing myself as a therapist has been kind of like taboo. You're not supposed to.

And I think with the explosion of wellness and now coaching, you should show yourself and it's okay that people care more about who you are than the letters after your name. And I think with the explosion of wellness and now coaching, you should show yourself. And it's okay that people care more about who you are than the letters after your name. So I champion all that. I think it's all about humanizing yourself now. So when people – is it just your clients you can text? Or any person can text you? Oh, I just text – it's through my website. It's a service.

I just text everyone. Oh, what's your website? Theangrytherapist.com. So there you go. If you want to text him you can text him um so you said you were married and got divorced 10 years ago yeah uh how long had you been with that person for about five years and how long were you married i was married for five and then we were dating for another four or five so like a total of nine almost a decade yeah that's a long time that's a long time it was my um first biggest imprint when he came to love and divorce is hard yeah was it do you mind me asking was it a mutual thing or no i don't mind at all uh she she she she divorced me it started

as a separation but i think she knew And so the soft blow was the, you know, let's separate. And then it was a divorce. But there was no pushback from me. I just feel like it, we got married young, we were kids.

Man, it's that sticky, crazy, you know, unhealthy, selfish love where you lose yourself in someone else.

Looking back, it was the best thing that happened to me because I went from kind of like child to adult or boy to man because of my divorce. You just have to sit with yourself, look at your own shit. And when you're in a relationship, it's hard to do that. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. do that oh yeah you know i'm saying absolutely so breakups or divorces or expired relationships

right after i think it's the um i think the soil is the richest for growth if you decide to look inward now if you decide to do other shit like if you're now going and just you know whatever it is debauchery or drugs or whatever then of course there isn't growth there but if you really uh review the uh the plane crash and look at the black box and why it happened and what's your take in it, not in blaming the other person, then there's an opportunity to actually grow from it. How long do you think it takes someone to get over a breakup? Oh, man. So I think it's different for everyone. I don't think there's a set time. I think it depends on how crazy or intense that relationship was that you're coming out of.

Because the other thing is I think a lot of people mistake intensity for love. So just because something was intense doesn't mean that it was healthy. Does that make sense? Absolutely. So some of my most intense relationships were in my earlier days, you know, 20s. But those were also probably the most unhealthy. And then we start trying to trace that blueprint because the feeling of it we remember. But that doesn't mean that that has legs for a relationship that's sustainable, you know.

And so we end up chasing this like feeling this dopamine and uh we end up going the only thing changes is our faces and we just keep chasing after the same shit and then it doesn't work and we're like maybe we should kind of peel the onion instead of going after the lightning oh you know i like that yeah peel the onion instead of going after the light layers i think i go after the lightning a lot. Yeah. Uh, because so my parents backstory, my parents are dead and my mom died when I was 16.

My dad died when I was 21. So I know I bring all of that baggage into relationships and I do not like being vulnerable because when you're vulnerable, that's inviting someone to hurt your feelings. So I think in relationships when I'm finally vulnerable, I immediately latch. So like if you see any of the real me where we have a normal conversation, I'm not doing bits and I'm like, oh, you enjoyed that. You like that. You like that I'm loud and fun. And even when I'm just trying to talk to you, I like oh this is my person I have to

I have to keep them and then when they go away I get like really sad because I'm like you still get to live out in the world and I never get to see you again well not only that but you just put all your chips oh yeah in by showing yourself and if you're someone see like I mean I don't know you but from the outside you actually look like someone who is very vulnerable. But as a performer and comic and all that, I'm sure there's vulnerability in that. But you're talking about a different vulnerability. You're talking about intimate. Yes.

Right? Like intimate. Like show someone who you really are. Yes. Not that you're being fake, but like deeper. There's different levels to me. There's layers. I'm an onion.

Yeah. I present a lot of my personal life and i talk about it pretty freely but there's like a ton of stuff that i don't talk about um like uh during sex i like i used to not like to look at someone in the eye because i was like what if they see inside my soul and they know all of my thoughts but then i started looking at people just close your eyes or you just did positions? I would either close my eyes or you get behind me and I'll stare at that wall. Right, right, right.

But I've been learning to just embrace it and connect with someone. And it's okay if we don't connect again. So I've been trying to be a little bit more forthcoming with people I'm with. Because I started thinking about it. I was like, huh, if I'm always closing my eyes and they're staring at me, they might be thinking, actually, I don't know. I don't want to, you know, philosophize what somebody else is thinking.

But I was like, maybe that makes them uncomfortable. But then I was like, am I comfortable? I was like, let's get comfortable. So that's what I've been trying to do. Well, I'm on this journey, speaking of sex. So I'm very highly sexual, a sexual being. But at 46, I'm now interested in something deeper. And it requires things like eye contact and slowing down and exploring and all that.

And, you know, in my 20s, it was just about skin hunger. And so now I'm actually interested in what we're talking about, which is like, talk to me. Look into my eyes. Like, let's try exploring instead of just getting the finish, the high, the dopamine, you know. And I'll be honest with you, it's terrifying. It's very, very scary. And it's not something we're used to. No.

You know? Especially now because I think everything is so fast-paced. We're all looking at people's social media and you're like, oh, my God, everyone's doing fun things. Am I fun enough? What's happening? And then I've been saying this on the podcast, but, like, it's very true. Like, I'm truly just looking for someone to sit and, like, watch TV with and not have to worry about talking. I can send them a meme and they giggle.

Right. And then maybe we talk about it, but maybe we just keep watching TV. I just want someone to be comfortable with. Well, not only that, but comfortable with when you show your true self. Yes. Right. Not the stuff that you do for work, I guess. Yes.

Yeah. And then I also, there's so many layers to what I want. Like, I also need someone who understands that if they come see me at a show, they're jokes. Like, they're just jokes. Right, right, right. That maybe they did something that I made a joke about, but. They don't take it personally. Yes.

Yeah. So you're talking about a secure man. Yes. Which is what you're going to need because of your lifestyle and what you do and all of that. Because I think also men can get intimidated. So like the double-edged sword of women today who are like badass and entrepreneurs and independent and doing their thing is there's now a wave of men who say they wanted these things. And now that women are these things, they're like, oh, shit. I don't want this.

This is too much. Or they're not secure enough or they're intimidated or there's a competition thing going on. Yeah, and that would bum me the fuck out. Like if someone was comparing their success to my success. Well, then it's a tug of war. Yeah. And it's not love.

That seems exhausting. Yeah, yeah. Have you been on dating apps at all? I tried. So I've been mostly in relationships. So after the marriage, it's always been, you know, three years here, three years there. So I've probably been in maybe six relationships. But there was about a year of dating.

So I played around with a few of the apps maybe like four years ago. And I learned that I think dating is dead. Seriously. Because I remember when I grew up in like, you know, the 90s where you had to ask someone out. I had the six disc charger where I put in my songs that I wanted to play on a date, roll up to her house, open the door, make reservations,

and, you know, like wash the car. You got all excited about it now it's like literally meet me like i see a picture of you meet me for coffee it'll be like five minutes you're going to be evaluated and judged right and compared to your like pick and all of that profile um and then there's this thing called ghosting now where people just like you're basically very you're like cond, you're like condiment. You're like, we're like salad dressing. It's just baseball cards, you know?

And so there is no real dating now. It's like, like roulette or it's very strange. It is so weird. It's also, I think it's weird, but it's all I've ever known. Like I've never truly had a date where someone like picked me up is that a generational thing I think so yeah or maybe I'm not sure you're you're in your early 30s 32 or 33 yes don't you know your millennium won't look it up but you grew up with technology yeah yeah that's all you know

well yeah I mean I think we got internet in my house at like 12, when I was 12 or 13. Yeah, but you weren't dating then. No, I wasn't dating. Thank God I wasn't dating then. But yeah, the only time I've ever had like a dude pick me up from my house is after we've gone out a couple of times. Like the steps to intimacy now or to dating now are confusing yeah because you go out you fuck and then you're like maybe we'll fuck again and then you fuck like four times and you're like maybe i'll tell them more about my life so you front load the fucking yes yeah but

i don't think i'm alone in this no everyone yeah it, yeah. It's so insane that like. It's become the kind of the cultural landscape. Yeah, and I don't know why it's like that. It's very confusing because you fuck a couple times and then you start to get to know the person and then you make a choice like somewhere down the line if you want to like go out with them during the day because I don't really do like coffee dates. They seem weird. Yeah, weird yeah they seem like interviews yeah and i do enough of like i have to go on like generals and meet producers and stuff and yeah yeah that it feels so it feels like work if i'm meeting you during the day for just a coffee so what are your dates then like a drink oh at night yes night stuff i used to do dinners. Yeah. But that is a long commitment. It is.

Because if the food doesn't come quick. Well, it's an hour with someone. Yes. And if there aren't sparks. You're stuck there till you're finished with dinner. Yeah, but what? So I guess back in the day before the apps, if you had the balls to go ask someone out, that means that you really want to hang out with this person.

Yes. So there's an investment there. So the dinner is actually a nice payoff yes now it's like because we're not even we're seeing pictures of them and filtering and stuff um there's a lot of filling in blanks and so i guess the dinner you're afraid of that because you don't want to spend that much time with someone correct so that's why there's more that's why dating is dead yeah so then if so if you don't want to do dinner then what do you, I guess a drink. You go for a drink. And then if it's fine after one drink, you go, all right, let's get another drink.

So you got little notches, the rounds. Like I've been on a couple of dates where I've had two drinks and been like, oh boy, I have to wake up very early tomorrow. But don't they get more attractive as you can have more drinks? No. No, they get worse. Okay. I wish that was a true statement.

Yeah. They get worse because then I'm like more real. I'm like, everything about you is stupid. And you've never said one interesting thing this entire 20 minutes. I have to leave. Yeah, dating apps are truly just awful. So you're not looking for love right now, or are you? No, no.

I think. You're looking for a companion. I'm looking for a companion who I'd like to fall in love with. Right. I'm trying to realize that intensity is not love, which I think is a hard thing. Yes. Because I'm a very. You like intensity is what you're telling me.

Yes. And when I was little, i was called an extremist miss gizzy called me an extremist because i used to write very big and she's like i need you to write smaller this is too big so i wrote so small so she couldn't see it so i was like you want a smaller i'll give you smaller and then she was like you're an extremist and i was like i guess that's what i am wait wait what grade was this this was fourth grade oh my wow so you're pulling out you're pulling out an old imprint but here's this well I'll bet you I'll bet you that whole her miss Gizzy or whatever her name is saying that you're

an extremist when you're in fourth grade there's no way that you have not carried that with you in some way oh I absolutely have so in my brain I'm like, it's either we love each other or I don't like you at all. Oh, there's no middle. Yeah, there's very much no middle ground. Well, then that means the stakes for you are very high when it comes to dating. Correct. Very, very high. Oh, shit.

It's awful. It's a terrible way to live and I don't know how to change it. We need a new dating mindset. Well, first of all, if you do find love what happens to this show is it done oh no people have said this yeah during meet and greets i've had people be like i never want you to find love because i don't want it to end and i'm like the dialogue this is the most selfish thing a person has ever said to my face uh but i wouldn't change the podcast uh well you would just start talking about what's honest to you in your life which is yeah but honestly i don't think i would talk about my partner until we were all right a year or two into

it right because it feels unfair to put that weight on somebody to go so we're dating and i'm going to use all of this as content that just doesn't seem fair and i've had relationships in the past year who I really liked that person. So I didn't talk about them at all. Or like maybe I said a couple of nondescript things. But yeah, I wouldn't talk about them for a while. But I think it's okay to talk about like people's experiences or my past experiences. So there's a lot of things to draw from.

So I wouldn't end it. But I do ask the question at the end, would you date me? The answer would be, well, I'm with somebody. But it's a hypothetical now. Right. It goes from literal to hypothetical. Right. It's a chain thing.

Yeah. So I would keep doing it because I think love and relationships are so interesting. Well, not only that, but even if you did fall in love or you were dating someone or whatever, you still don't know. You still are learning. I mean, there's, you know, like it's endless. There's no answers. I'm a different person than I was a year ago. Like I was listening to a very early episode of the podcast and I was like, I've grown up so much in the last, I think I've been doing this for two years, two years.

It's crazy. It's a therapy too. Yes, it is. And for me, it's been very helpful to talk about stuff. I think talking about love and relationships and the mistakes I've made, because I've made so many. Yeah. I think that's been very therapeutic and it helps in addition to my actual therapy. I think also, and women, I think mature faster than men in the sense that they turn the

corner faster. So I think around 30, early 30s is when you actually start asking yourself some important questions like what I really want. Who am I? Why do I do that? Like these don't come till 30. You know, 20s is just exploration debauchery. 20s. My 20s were so stupid. Okay, we have to take a break and we're back yeah my 20s i made so many of the most insane choices uh not that i'm making perfect choices now but i'm doing a lot of things now that are like controlled chaos yeah if you will uh that like keep me safe like I used to hitchhike in my early 20s when I lived in New York which is not gray also when you say hitchhiking and so if you you know were raised in your 60s in the 60s that's fair but not yeah but not as a millennial that's not in like 2008 in New York

you should be in a trunk right now. Yes. There were so many things that should have happened to me that didn't because for whatever reason I'm supposed to be here. But yeah, if like a dude cat called me, I'd be like, where are you going? And they would tell me and I'd be like, let me get in. Yeah, yeah. But I was poor and I loved an adventure.

Wow. So would you consider yourself a serial monogamist? Yeah, I think so. I'm a hopeless romantic. And I've pretty much only been in relationships. The longest I've been single was after my divorce for about four years. But I was single on purpose. Which, by the way, is the title of my new book.

Is it? Was that tacky? No! That's how you're supposed to do it. my new book. Is it? Was that tacky? No, that's how you're supposed to do it. I watch a lot of RuPaul's Drag Race and RuPaul will shoehorn any promo for anything she's ever done on the show. And I think it's so smart. I'm writing a book right now and I've put so many promotional things for other things in the book. In the book, right. Wait, what is your book? An autobiography or what's the... No, it is a self-help guide for fat women.

So the title used to be Very Fat, Very Brave. The Brave Girl's Guide to Being... Wait, no. Very Fat, Very Brave. The Fat Girl's Guide to Being Brave and Not Suicidal in a Bikini. But no humor books have the word suicide in it. Right, right. And they were worried that people would think I was making fun of suicide.

And I was like, we don't get the joke in this. So now it's something even longer. I think it's peanut butter and chocolate. I like the fact that it's funny, but it's also substance. Dark. Yes. Yes.

And for me, like if you, I mean, this podcast sometimes goes a little dark. My standup goes very dark. I spend the first 10 minutes of my set talking about cities I've been to where I've been overtly uh had racism

happen to me right but i make it funny yeah like you really like you're laughing but like i hope you go home and you're like jesus christ like i can't believe all of these microaggressions happen to this woman like this is crazy and i talk about like i've talked about appleton wisconsin so many times on this podcast and i have a joke about it in my act. And people are like, well, I'm from Appleton. I'm really sorry you had a bad time there. But, like, everyone's great there. And I'm like, maybe.

Yeah. But I did five shows. And one of them yelled something racist at my feature. And they yelled at me. And for me, five shows, three days where I was disrespected nonstop. I don't like that town. Five shows, three days where I was disrespected nonstop. I don't like that town.

I think the ability to find funny in dark is therapeutic. Yes. You know? Yeah. The first jokes I wrote were about my parents' death. And I was 22 or 23 when I first tried those jokes. They did not go well because everyone else was 22, 23, who all had parents. Right, right, right.

They can relate to you. Yeah, fully they were like, no, no, this woman, she's sad. I don't know about this. But yeah, I think it's very therapeutic to make sad things into something that you can laugh at. But then sometimes audiences don't get it.

Yeah, of course. I have a joke about this man who accused me of pickpocketing him on an airplane. And then I wrote responses back to him that are like real sassy, true reads. And the last couple of times I've done that joke, people in the audience are like, ooh. And I have to stop and go guys he was racist nobody actually said these this is my fantasy are we all on board can i continue with the gym yeah it's uh everyone is a little whatever we don't have to get into that uh but when you're

so you've been in many relationships what is a thing that a woman can do that makes you go, yes, I want to date this person? So my answer today is very different than it was, you know, 10, 15 years ago. I'm going to say aware of self. Like not only because to me, that's confidence, you know, a knowing of yourself what you like the ability to actually express yourself um and and even like in the bedroom like what you want what turns you on what you like to me that's sexy um and also you know uh knowing your defects and your weaknesses so this is a vulnerability piece i think um vulnerability is sexy i think uh someone showing themselves unapologetically and saying, you could love it or not love me or not leave me, love me, but this is who I am. Because it takes so much

courage to do that. I agree. But then sometimes I'm like, you don't got to show all your colors. Not on the first date. No, that's the show called 90 Day Fiance. Do you watch it? Okay, there's this woman on it named Darcy. And Darcy has cried on every single date with this man, Tom, that she's dating. And I was like, okay, I'm all for showing all of your colors, but you cannot

be that insecure that you're crying at this man, begging this man to love you. I think maybe she needs to go on a self journey of self-discovery i think there's a responsibility in showing yourself so there's a difference between like verbally vomiting on someone yes or showing a side of you that you're scared to show but you're doing it anyway because it's you want you you want to you know embrace your story and

share that with the person but just like vomiting or making it about you all the time i mean that's not that's not yeah that's not vulnerability i think people get that confused yes yes they're just like well i'll just tell you my whole deal yeah or let me just tell you everything i'm thinking it's like no like yeah that's not showing yourself that's not what i mean yeah yeah um but that in in communication fair yeah what i think yes i think you're right i know i don't in my friendships i let things fester for a little bit until it yeah like boils over and then we're like in a fight sure yeah so well that's the extreme maybe yes but we don't we're not we don't practice this like we should grow up learning there should be classes in high school where you can actually practice self-expression.

Yes. And telling someone how you feel and boundaries and all that. And so we go from zero to 60. And especially if you grew up like me, I was never taught any tools and modeled anything. And so it's like express my what do you mean? So I used to go from zero to just throwing chairs. And I used to be very angry and unhappy and explosive and reactive. and I used to be very angry and unhappy and explosive and reactive um and at 46 now I'm finally more um responding instead of reacting it is interesting that we don't teach people

how to manage emotions um no we learned geometry which we never yes I've nobody's ever been like what's the hypotenuse of this and I'm'm like, well, I'm so glad you asked. Right. But yeah, like my mother was a person who she was very comfortable with her emotions. She was a spiritual, religious person. And she liked to talk and she liked to ask questions about how I was feeling or why I did something. So that was very helpful in my formative years. And then my dad's side of the family was very different.

They were very much like, we don't talk about this. We're very quiet. Like I did. So I two years ago asked my grandpa how he met my grandmother. And then my aunts and my uncle were like, yeah, how did you meet? And I was like, what? How do you guys not know this? But it's because they don't really talk about their personal life with their family.

And my grandpa was like, well, I was in a gang. And I was like, what do you mean you were in a gang? You're from Barbados. What were you, stealing coconuts? What kind of gang were you in? And he didn't like that joke. My grandpa doesn't think I'm funny. It's a real treat.

If my grandpa doesn't think I'm funny, it's a real treat. But yeah, so I lately, the older I get, I've been like asking just more questions to them because I just like I want to know they're getting old. They're not going to be around for very much longer. I mean, knock on wood, they'll live forever. Honestly, I think my grandpa will outlive me. He is like a cockroach. He's going nowhere. I say that with lots of love.

What do you think are good tools to enter a relationship with? Oh, man. Okay, first, I think tools are acquired through just going through our shit, therapy, whatever. I don't think you get tools over the weekend. You know what I'm saying? I think because self-care. You can't just go to Home Depot

and pick up the tools for a relationship. Or a seminar or take a yoga class. I think because self-betterment has become cool now, there's kind of a crust forming. So there's a lot of people wearing the t-shirt, a lot of people saying, a lot of talking heads, you know. I'm sure people think that about me.

But until you've actually gone through the journey and like have done quote unquote the work, as I say in my line of business, it takes time. And so when you say tools, it feels like a light switch like, oh, you just got picked him up at Home Depot. But no, I think we're always acquiring more and more and I think that you have to have gone through some shit whether it's a divorce or parents passing or whatever it is uh for you to actually um obtain some wisdom and some stillness and some looking inward you know and i think that's where the tools come from not like reading a self-help book and being like oh just do this and this and you know so yeah it takes it god it's hard relationships are hard period you know they seem hard but like

i just really want to be in one. Oh, of course. Well, I think they're worth it. I think, I mean, so here's the thing about life. If you get something from a relationship that you can't get in anything else, like it doesn't matter how successful you are or how much money or what kind of car. The closeness, the vulnerability, the intimacy, moments, that kind of shit, hitting those high notes of love. You can't get that from your friends.

No. You can't get that from parents. You can only get it from the person you choose to love. And I think that's why we're willing to fight and look and get hurt. I mean, that's why everyone wants it. But I think the biggest misconception is that it's not a feeling. It's actually built. So it's not like, oh, this person is amazing.

And yes, there's a honeymoon and all of that. But I think relationships are sustainable and healthy are actually built, meaning, OK, now I know that we like each other. But I also see your dirty socks. I also know we speak differently, love languages and, you know, are sexual, whatever. There's an incompatibility there. And then it's like, okay, now let's do the work. Let's build something. And that takes a lot of selfishness. It takes a lot of looking inward. It takes a lot of taking ownership. Like what am I bringing to the table? That's my piece, not yours. All of that. And that's that's that's exhausting just talking about it's very

exhausting yeah and that's why i think a lot of people um don't last past you know whatever a couple months or a year you know it's i think especially today where we're like fuck this i got choices yes you know and with dating apps i feel like people we have endless choices yeah but i think that's a mirage i mean we do visually yes but i think that if you really go out there are there a lot of quality people that you connect with that you're willing to invest in now see and i think that's another hard thing that i have when i'm like oh my god we've connected because i don't like very many people so you value it when you do find a connection.

Yes. Yeah. And I feel like because I've been hit on a lot lately in my DMs. Sure. And I think people are just like, whatever. Come on, let's date. I'm like, oh, no, no, that's not. I mean, I might sound like I'll date any old person, but if I would date any old person,

I would be dating someone right now. Do you think that their intentions are in the right place? Or do you just get a lot of DMs because they're like, I think she's funny. I think she's successful. Or do you think it's like a challenge for them? I don't know. I don't really know what people's intentions are. Well, that's what must make it hard for you.

Because if you don't know what their intentions are, you're going to be more on guard. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Do you like me what I'm saying? Yeah. Do you like me or do you like what's what's. It's very confusing. Sometimes I was having a conversation with this dude who he travels for work and lives in a different state. And I was like, oh, I come to that state often.

I should be there in November. And he was like, oh, yeah. How many shows are you doing? And I was like, I never mentioned I was a comedian. How did he know? Because I don't know who knows me. And it's insane to assume somebody knows who I am. There's too many

people in this world doing entertainment and doing whatever. And then the internet and Instagram. I would think so highly of myself if I thought everybody knew who I was. And then I have a picture of a dildo in my dating profile. And he's like, then I have a picture of a dildo in my dating profile and he's like oh you're not a traveling dildo salesman uh who does shows about

him and I was like oh that was funny but still I'm like and so I said to him I was like I didn't know if you knew I was a comic or whatever and then he never responded and I was like I don't know I don't know it's uh yeah people ghost on the apps they ghost after you meet it's uh yeah you know what it's doing though because I have a lot of um mostly female

uh post 30 that don't like that shit and they're turning it inward so they're so sick of the ghosting the uh the whatever

dick pics whatever that's happening out there where they're now um starting to lose faith. And now they're like, is something wrong with me? And I think that's when it gets dangerous is when you start not using dating apps as a tool, but you're using it as a measure of your worth. And I think I was doing that for a hot, hot second. I was like, it must be me. I was like, it must be me.

But then I learned that there's a thing called an Elio score where you're like scored on who you swipe on and your pictures and stuff. So then they match you with those people that they think are good for you. So I'm like, the algorithm's already fucked. If that's a thing, if you are trying to be a matchmaker, that's a crazy thing. You're a company. Just let people see whoever they want. Yeah. And then I also was like, these are just random people in the world. Right.

And they have no reflection on me. It's hard to be interesting in a fucking text message. It's hard to be interesting. Yeah. Just trying to get to know somebody on it. Like texting. I don't think you can get to know someone. No, there's no way.

There's no way. And it's like, so this show, 90 i fucking love it a lot of these people are long distance for a very long time so they're emailing each other and like video chatting and i'm like that's not i think no that's that's hard it's real i don't i don't believe in long distance unless there's a uh there's uh you guys are working toward a reunion. Um, this open ended non because long distance, when you see each other,

you're on your best behavior. You haven't seen each other forever. Um, it's just not real. It's not how you're going to be if you were actually to live together. So there's a lot of false advertising. Um, and I think the amount of work and connection it takes to build something is

in person. Because you feel their energy. You see how they are. It's very easy to hide behind words and text. Oh, absolutely. And angles and videos and stuff. And you can be witty. Yeah, yeah. You can have a ring light and look better than you look in person.

You're just playing your highlight reel. The trailer. Yep. We need to see the documentary. Yes. I fully agree. Yeah, that's all dating apps are they're a trailer for

who the person is and then the person could be shitty sometimes a trailer's great and a movie's very shitty I'm glad I'm not in my 30s I'm glad I didn't grow up with you guys damn it sounds fucking exhausting and chaotic very exhausting it is almost

like a second job or in my my case, a third, fourth, fifth job because you have to sit there and you have to swipe through people. Well, it's not just that kind of exhausting, but I think I don't know if I'm secure enough to handle the no's and the rejections and the ghosting and the, oh, emotionally exhausting. I don't know how normal people do it because when i auditioned for a job you only hear you got the job you don't hear if you don't get it right the the jobs ghost you right and then there's a fun thing where you work out your deal before you even get it so it'd be

like it's between you and four other girls here's your deal and you're like oh my god this money if i get it i'm gonna buy x y and z and then two weeks later they're like you're like who got it and they're like oh not you and you're like oh well okay okay so we were engaged and then you broke off the engagement and we're back to square one so dating is a lot like that and i don't know how normal people handle that much rejection i face rejection literally at least twice a week. But there's a difference between rejection from work

and your ability and performance or someone rejecting you as a person. Well, they are rejecting me as a person with acting and comedy. It's not personal though because you weren't looking for me. That's fine. I can find somebody else who wants what I'm serving. But they rejecting you you're saying yes yeah but with a relationship

it's even more personal because you're like oh well I don't know if I'll ever find another person well that's what I'm saying with a relationship you're not hiding behind anything and also there's no it's like here I am yeah no okay and it's like oh so I didn't get that acting job great I'll go on tour right there's no like oh I didn't get that acting job. Great. I'll go on tour. Right. There's no like, oh, I didn't get that boyfriend. So I guess I'll tour the world. There's no business part. No. Yeah.

Yeah. It's so frustrating, but you gotta keep doing it if that's what you want. I guess. Well, how are things now? Right now I am dating no one. Um, I've been flirting with this one dude off of tinder but like he never says anything interesting but that's okay uh and then for a hot second i was trying to meet somebody on the road but then i was like what am i do import him to la that seems stupid are you i'm assuming

you travel a lot yeah so it must be lonely actually to travel a lot uh do all your stuff juggle all the balls and then not have someone to share that with yeah yeah i mean i have a roommate which is very nice yeah uh but he's in a relationship so he's got that person and then we have dogs the dogs like him more because i'm away so much yeah and i don't walk them uh so it is lonely but also not lonely if that makes sense the thing i loved most about new york city when i lived there was you could be alone amongst a ton of people right so like on the subway you're alone yeah you're not with a friend right but you're with people so it doesn't feel lonely so i don't ever feel lonely because i have my friends and I'm around people and I'm bopping

to place to place doing shit. The only time I actually feel, feel lonely is like after a show alone in the hotel room. You're like, oh, my friends are sleeping. But like if I had a partner, they would answer my phone call because they love me. Right. When you crave that, you crave that connection with that one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But, you know, it gets sad, but then you just gotta keep going. Keep going. Just keep going. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what the remedy to that would be. Although, I do think 2020 is going to be my year, and I will find somebody. Please don't ask why I feel that, but I feel it. Why do you feel that? I don't. I think it's because 2019 was awful. Oh, was it? Yeah. I had a very bad time with dating just in general. What was awful about it? All the

experiences or did you meet someone that you really liked and that didn't work out? Well, I met someone the year before that I liked and it didn't work out. And then every person I met this year seemed to be fodder for a joke. It was like I just kept having the most insane experiences. Right. And then this one guy I hooked up with after he left the hotel room, I literally looked at the heavens and said, I don't want any more material.

I just want a healthy sexual experience. Right, right. And I'm sure the people in the adjoining hotel rooms are like, who is this woman talking to? Oh, you said it out loud. Oh, I screamed it. I was like, why? Why is weird shit, why does it keep happening?

Honestly, though, I wouldn't trade my weird shit for the world. I attract weird stuff. It's fine. It's my life. It's what it is. It's fine. It's my life. It's what it is. It's been like this my entire life. But it would just be so nice to have one person who loves me, who I got to call and tell.

Because I like talking on the phone. I talk to a couple of friends that I love dearly on the phone a lot. It would be nice to call that person and be like, oh my goodness, I'm in Iowa and today you'll never believe a potato was thrown at me on stage. I don't know. Please don't throw a potato at me. That's not. The potatoes are hard.

That might hurt. Yeah. Maybe a bag of mashed potatoes. That'd be great. Then I'd eat it. Or like fries. Yeah, french fries are great. Throw french fries at me.

Yeah, it would just be so nice to have like a home base to come back to. Yeah. As opposed to, I'm just out in the world. That's what it is. It's actually having that kind of home base. And also, when you climb the ladder, become successful in the world, you want to share that with someone. Yes. So you want to kind of come back to that home base, your nest, you know, and that's what, yeah.

So 2020 is going to be it. 2020 is going to be my year. I see it. I also think I picked 2020, or not picked. This year was bad, and I was like, well, there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm also the same age my mother was when she married my dad. Oh, interesting. So I was like, I don't know.

There's that. So I'll glob onto that. Yeah, yeah. History repeating itself. Yes. And they had such a nice relationship in a way where my mother was a pretty ridiculous woman, and my dad was a very quiet man who truly would just stand aside and watch her and just giggle. Or he'd be like, oh, Bonnie. I have a joke about it now where i'm like i just want an

exhausted man who loves me uh but my mother exhausted my dad she would like she would do things that he was like please don't and she'd be like i did it and he would just go oh all right do were they in love were they i think so yeah yeah because after she died he was the saddest person i've ever met like he was just so sad oh yeah and then two years after she died, he was the saddest person I've ever met. Oh. Like, he was just so sad. Oh, yeah. And then two years after she died, me and my sister, like, both went off to college and, like, left him alone. And in hindsight, probably should have asked him if he was okay more.

Yeah. But he was a stoic person who didn't really talk about his feelings. So I don't know if we would have, like, actually gotten answers. Did he partly, did he pass because your mom passed? Or his passing was different? They both died of heart failure. So, it was weird,

because she was overweight, so she died of deep vein thrombosis, which is a blood clot in your leg, and it traveled to her heart. And then my dad died of a heart attack. Two years. No. No, it was the,

it was like a year to the day that my sister graduated from college wow so sometimes i think he died of a broken heart he was just like all right i saw her graduate let me get on out of here sometimes couples uh especially when they're older they um when when when one person dies the other person dies very fast or just kind of done. It wasn't that fast. 16 and 21, I can't do that math. What is that? Five years? Five years. Yeah, so five years after my mom died, my dad died. I mean, I'm looking for that kind of love where if he dies, I go too.

I also watched a video today where I was like, this is the type of love I want. It was a very drunk couple trying to walk up the stairs and they kept falling back down. And then instead of helping her, he took her glass, her cocktail, and it made me laugh. I was like, oh, this is a treat. I just want to be drunk with somebody. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. It's about the moments. Are you dating someone right now? Oh, I am. Yeah. Are you happy in this relationship? Yes. I'm learning so much. I have a baby coming. Congratulations. happy in this relationship yes i'm learning so much uh i have a baby coming congratulations 23 weeks wow do you know what kind of baby it is uh human no it's a female did you i just i knew it was gonna i knew she was gonna be female i just had this vision of oh yeah i've always had

this vision of having a daughter and taking her for pancakes in a vintage truck that's always been playing in my head and uh you know like her her little feet not being able to, and shots from the back where we're wearing the stools on a counter. That's so cute. And I've just been obsessed with that vision. And then so when she said it was a girl or the doctor, I was like, oh, yeah, of course. Fair. I don't think I want kids.

No? Yeah. Never? I mean, I think I would have a kid if I had enough money that the nanny raised it. And I swung by every now and again. And they're like, hello, Nicole. And I was like, hello, children. You're also very young and things can change.

Because the person I'm with now, she never wanted kids ever. And suddenly she had over, you know. Yeah, I might want them later. My mom had me late. I think she was 40 or 39. So I got time. What do you think I should put on my dating apps

to attract a gentleman? Oh. Or a lady. I'm pretty... Are you open these days? Is that why you're here? Very open.

Are you? I don't mind. Are you bisexual or you're just like, yeah, I'm open to whatever now? I don't like to say bisexual. I also don't like to say queer

because I do, I'm pretty heteronormative right uh but i'm very open to whatever i call it slutty what i i wouldn't put the slutty on the profile but what what what is on your profile now okay currently it says definitely i thought the happiest out there i'm a known seltzer hog, which I should probably take out. That's a joke from my friend. Then I said I'm a dark bottom filled with cream, which is another joke from a friend. Then I said I'm looking for a funny person who, like, gets it. And then I wrote I love to teehee.

Because I do love to giggle. I'm reading this out loud to a therapist. It's pretty bad. Maybe I should change it. No, I think it's great. Oh, you do? I do. But I would also encourage you to be more vulnerable on the profile because it's a side that we don't see.

So here's a surprise. It's like, okay, we see you doing this and the show and all that. And then someone comes to your profile and they're like, oh, shit. She's actually real on it, which means i should take her seriously because if you if you if you start with um how you are outside then they're going they're gonna be they're gonna treat you differently i think or their perception of you may be different i mean i don't know but do you think it's too much to be like, I'm looking for real love? Because anytime I see someone's profile where they're like, I'm looking for real love. I'm like, you're a fool. You'll never find it here.

It's a fool's journey. I wouldn't say maybe you're looking for something honest. Maybe you don't know what you're looking for. Like whatever your truth is, I would be like, look, I'm dating, but I'm also looking for something honest and real. And I don't even know what that is. I like that. Yeah, and then it's like, but you could have a, I think you could be you, of course,

but I think if that's kind of where you start with, then you're setting the tone, and then I think that's going to attract people who are going to be more on that level with you. And then, of course, you know, the fun and the jokes and all that, but I think reshuffling what you put weight on. So not only the profile, but in life, you know, whether you're at the grocery store or you're on a dating app, it doesn't matter. I like that a lot.

I'm looking for something honest and real, but I don't know what that is. Don't. OK. Yeah. I like that. I don't know what that is because I truly don't know what that is. But that's also you being vulnerable. Yes.

You know what I'm saying? And I'm saying that because the beginning of this episode, I asked you and you said, it's hard for me to be vulnerable in the eye contact. And I'd rather him be whatever behind me and all this kind of. So I just, that lights up to me and I'm like, okay, I'm going to, I mean, well, I'm not your therapist, but as a guest on your podcast, if you want advice, it would be what would vulnerability look like? And how would you take a butter knife to that shit and spread it everywhere? Because I think there's strength there, and I think that's what's going to be the cheese – I don't know if it's the cheese that comes – that invites this, Mr. 2020. All right. I don't know if it's the cheese that invites this, Mr. 2020.

All right. I don't know why I said cheese. It's not going to be a rat you're going to attract. Cheese is spreadable? Spreadable? Oh, yeah, maybe, maybe. I don't really eat cold cheese, so I don't know. You don't eat cold cheese?

No, very strange. I only like melted cheese. When I was little, I used to say, I don't want the raw cheese. My mother was like, there is no such thing as raw cheese. Oh, because it was cold. There is. It's cold and it's raw. And I need it cooked.

Very strange person. I still have very strange eating habits. We all do. I eat everything with my fingies if nobody's watching. No utensils. I don't. Who needs a fork? You have fingers.

Oh, sure. Sure. Then, you know, pizza sauce will get all up in your fingernail. Curry, soup. Well, I guess sure. But then, you know, pizza sauce will get all up in your fingernail. Yeah, curry, soup. Well, I guess I don't eat soupy things with my fingers. But honestly, Jig and Tiga Masala, if it sits out long enough and it kind of congeals, they'll pull it out with little fingies. Yeah.

Okay, I ask all of my guests this. Would you date me? Yes. Ooh! Yes. You seem like a uh you know what you seem like a fun positive um and actually i'm in person i actually see um realness in you that i don't see of course like you know on that or a podcast or whatever um and but maybe it's just a tone of what's happening now

but like in you in front of me here you seem like genuine and real and three dimensional yeah so the answer is yes yay thank you do you have anything you want to promote promote I guess just two things

I'm texting people now I'm fascinated with using technology to create reach and help people so I'm sending daily texts and also I'm a co-founder in a company called Journey. We certify life coaches. And so helping other people help other people is a passion of mine and we're doing it in a very honest way. So journey.co. Yay. Okay. If you like this episode of Why Won't You Date Me, subscribe. You could give it a five-star rating. And if you send me something nasty hitting on me, I will read it out loud. This nice person said, the wholesome part of me wants to bake you gourmet chicken pot pies and feed them to you with a golden

spoon. But the real me wants to spread your perfect chocolate pussy and perch up on my face, wants to spread your perfect chocolate pussy and perch up on my face, giggling and letting me lick and suck on you till completion while you dine. While your sweet pussy nectar, this is long, coats my lips and warms my throat, the hot creamy pie filling is dripping on my titties because of your explosive orgasm. As you ravenously ingest my culinary savory sensation the perfectly brown flaky pasty crust lays a dusting on my belly and you bend over and suck up all these leftovers on me like a quiet dyson vacuum spit them back into my pussy oh and i'm also stuffed like a perfectly golden pot pie then we lay next to each other in the most perfect Lazy 69, and you eat the pussy pie filling out of me for your second helping, and I flip you over and look up your sweet butthole as dessert. Cheers.

Hope I see you in Boston. Thank you for that. That was too long. Okay. Bye-bye. This has been a Team Coco production.