Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Christina Applegate

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

Christina Applegate doesn't need anyone's pity or approval. That’s the takeaway from her new memoir, "You With the Sad Eyes." She looks back at some of the toughest moments in her life, from abusive relationships to her recent multiple sclerosis diagnosis. But she also shares with Rachel the joys in her life, like raising her 15 year old daughter and watching Bravo reality television. To listen sponsor-free and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcard See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Just a heads up, this episode does have some strong language. How often do you think about death? Every day? Because it's looming. I bought my plots already, okay? I bought them. And my friend and I are going to go take a picnic there. It's really pretty where it is. I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life, questions pulled from a deck of cards.

They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one back on me. My guest this week is Christina Applegate. I said to myself, take this all in. Look around where you are at Radio City Music Hall. Take every bit of it in. Every person, every mezzanine, every everything. Like, take it all in. I look nuts.

A few things became clear to me after reading Christina Applegate's new memoir. She wants no one's pity. She doesn't need anyone's approval, except maybe her daughters, and she is a survivor. On the outside, she was this mega star of TV and movies, but you can only compartmentalize pain for so long, and her new memoir feels like liberation to me. An MS diagnosis has made life hard in new ways, but this is a person who has fought for every moment of the life she has built for herself and takes none of it for granted. Her memoir is called You with the Sad Eyes, and I'm so very happy to welcome Christine. Tina Applegate to Wildcard. Hi.

Hi, Rachel. Hi. I'm happy to meet you. Nice to meet. Thanks for doing this. Yeah. I'm excited. And we're just going to get going with the memories round.

Okay. Sounds good. So, first three cards in the memories round, you choose one, two, or three? Two. Two. What's a place that shaped you just as much as any person did? The set. The set.

Yeah, I know that sounds douche, but really. I mean, you did spend a lot of time on them. 50 years on them. So it really was a place that defined how I operate in the world, how I treat people, how I learned to be professional. how I learned to do what I do by watching and being and osmosis. And so, yeah, I mean, it really was that place for me. How old were you the first time you worked on a set? It's weird because I started so young, but I really, like, when I started doing, like, episodics when I was, like doing family ties and all that stuff,

Those are the memories that I have. And that's before I married with children. And before I did this other show called Washington. So young teenagers, like 13, 12, 12, Charles in charge. I was 12, I think. But I had been doing it for a long time before that. I just don't have memory of it. They're in my diary somewhere.

Did the set feel like a safe place to you? Absolutely, 100%. lot safer than the place that I grew up in. But at the time, you know, given that that cancer that was in our life there for a while, when he was gone, you know. This is your mom's partner. Yeah. It was just the two of us.

And, you know, she was pretty great, I have to say. Nancy Pretty is a pretty great lady. So it was good. It's just I felt like, I felt really like a family. you know. On sets. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Moving on. Next three in memories. Three. One, two, or three. Three. What's something your parents taught you to love? I mean, oddly, for such a self-deprecating person that I am and, you know, been dealing with my own issues with self-love.

Like, my mom really taught me. To really have that, have power. Let's just call it that. Like, have worth, knowing my worth. And I think that was a huge, that's a huge thing for me. But you didn't answer, she taught me to love myself. Why did that not feel like the right word? It didn't feel like the right word.

Because I don't, you know, there's, that's a hard one. But I do have worth. And I know that I'm important. And that's something that she really nailed into me, that I'm important. How did your mom do that? Because she was, you're writing the book a lot about how your mom was struggling with her own sense of self. Her own power was diminished by people in her life, especially that partner who was abusive, her first husband, your dad, your biological dad, who abandoned you. I hate that word abandoned.

I'm sorry. Let's strike it from the record. No, but I wish I'd, it wasn't in the book because it brought up some feelings for some people that I know and I can't. I don't like saying that because, I mean, yes, he left her when I was three months old. Yes, that did happen. But I saw him intermittently my whole life. So I understand. So I have to be very clear. And you had a relationship with him. Yes. I mean, I had, he was a, I, he would take me. on every other weekend and I and then we'd go camping and we'd do things so I he was in my life let's

say that okay so I feel like abandoned makes it look like we never heard from him again and I don't want that anyway sorry what was the question how did your mom teach you self power when she was struggling with it herself because she could see that I I struggled with that you know I was the little girl who went into the party who stood in the corner and when all the other kids were playing and laughing and knowing who they were. And I didn't know how to join them. So she would see that and would break her heart. So she just kind of gave me this thing of like, you know, they need you more than you need them. And that was something that was like a big thing for me. And that's not a bitchy thing to say. And then it also came into my work too, like with auditing. like, just remember, when you're going in there, they need you more than you need them. And that gave me power and worth. Yeah. And you're a parent of a daughter.

Yes, I am. And you have all that history to share with her and does it make you revisit your own relationship with your mom and thank God, she did what you could. And ultimately parenting is just like releasing. Like, you do what you can. Just you release her out into the world. Yeah. And, you know, Sadie knows a lot about what happened to me. You know, we've talked about it and stuff because I want her to know.

And I really try to nail this in in the book as well. But I nail it in in my life is that I want her to know I get it. Like, whatever it is, I've probably gone through it. You're not alone. You have me always. come to me first. Like, come to me first. You know, you're going to go to other people and get all sorts of opinions from people that know nothing about what you're talking about, kiddo. But if you come to me, you've got me. No judgment. No trying, well, I was going to say no trying to fix. I'm always

trying to fix because we can't we can't help ourselves you know we want to put a band-aid on that scratch and yeah how was she she's 15 yeah so we're in a stage right now you know it's a it's an age that's all i'm going to say 15 is an age okay last one in this round one two or three i'll do one what period of your life do you often daydream about dancing Yeah. Say more. People may not know this about you. Dance is my love. It's my first love. And I started dancing at three years old and became, you know, it's all I wanted to do. I wanted to be a professional dancer. I wanted to dance on Broadway. My mom used to take me to New York all the time because I had, my grandparents were in New Jersey and I was seeing stuff like the original cast. of eight misbehaving and the whiz and everything, like all these incredible people. That was before they changed the age to 15. I was so lucky because I was probably like six or seven.

A chorus line, you know, which is a six-year-old probably shouldn't be seeing it. Tits and ash. But I also shouldn't have been seeing all that jazz. and I saw all that jazz a million times, you know. Yeah. I don't know how we had all that jazz at home a million times to watch, but that's one of my favorite movies of all time. And that was my dream.

And then I became an actress. So that kind of went on hold, but not ever in my life. Like I would leave set and go to dance class until 11 o'clock at night, no matter what. And what did it feel like in your body when you say? say that's what you daydream about. Can you conjure what it felt like in your body to inhabit it that way? Well, once I found these teachers that were doing lyrical, which was, I was about 15, I guess. And, you know, before that, you just did jazz. You know, not jazz hands. I never did a jazz hand in my life. I love that, like, non-dancers think that's what we just run around doing.

But I found this man named Doug Caldwell. God rest his beautiful soul. He was teaching this class with music that was just like filled you, like filled your whole heart. Like it could either be completely devastating or completely uplifting. And you just closed your eyes and you felt it tingle through your fingertips, like everything. And it was, we called it church. Like all the dancers in class were. like, oh, yeah, I'm glad you came to church tonight because we just felt like it, we would be

transformed in those two and a half hours, completely transformed. And so to me, dancing, because I'm a disabled person, I can't dance ever again, and breaks my heart, you know. And, you know, I did get to do my Broadway. I did get to do my sweet charity, my Bob Fossi, I did. And I kept that story, Christina. It's so beautiful and also horrific. It's so horrific. My God. I had no idea. I mean, just for context, it's a long story made very short and not giving it its due, but you worked very hard to get this part on Broadway and in this dream role in Sweet Charity. And you broke your damn foot. Yeah, broke my damn foot. And you were out for a while, and then you just did it through pain. Yep, I did it through pain and it sucked, but I had to.

You got nominated for a tome? Yes, ma'am, I did. That is very cool. That is still like an incredible thing because that, like you said, like dance is your heart. Dance is who you are. There's nothing like it. I mean, I had to perform also. at the Tonys. And I was broken. That foot was broken. And I remember at the beginning of the

number, I come down stage. And I look like an insane person. But it's because I said to myself, take this all in. Look around where you are at Radio City Music Hall. Take every bit of it in, every person, every mezzanine, every everything, like take it all in. But I look nuts. I just thought I'd tell you that. No, but I love that you were aware that you could be in the moment and separate from it and that it was important enough to give yourself freedom to be separate for a second to like acknowledge what was going on. Yeah. I had. I mean, I had to. If I just let this moment go. I didn't know if I'd ever be back there again. Okay. So let's pull back from the game. We're going to talk about your book. Do you need a break?

No. Congratulations. How do you feel about having all this stuff out in the world? I mean, it's there now. Nothing I can do about it now. Right before it was about to come out, I was tripping a little bit. But it's like I'm, I'm, beholden to no one. And for me, just, you know, I'm getting a lot of feedback from people going, you're helping my, you know, my sister, you help, you know, so and so. And like, that's, that's the stuff you love. I didn't write it for that reason. You know, I wrote it completely just to get this shit out of me. How did you arrive at that point? Because as you say in the book, you're a very private person and for a lot of good reasons. Like you had to, you erected this boundary

that separated you, your personal life, which was very chaotic, from this public persona, this like super successful, young, beautiful, ambitious woman. And that boundary existed for a reason for self-preservation. How did it come to be that you decided to take it down? Well, okay, so I was an agent at my agency at CIA named Cindy. She actually approached and said, do you want to write a book? I mean, you've got in time now, basically. And I said, yeah, I do.

I've always wanted to put this stuff down. I need to get it out. Yeah. You know, metaphorically and literally, these journals were locked in a box. And, you know. Because you excavated journals you kept, since you were a very small girl. 10 years old until I was 36 or 37, I think. And I knew I had to go back there.

I knew I need to let them out. And because it's stuff that there are things that, yes, I've told my friends that were pretty horrific and things that my friends had seen. And they always go, they always would say, you should, you should write this shit down, man. And I was like, one day when I'm ready, I don't have the time and I'm not ready. and right now I'm ready. Yeah. Was there hope that there would be, in your retelling of a lot of the abuse that you suffered, that there would be some accountability that would come from, in some cases, naming people and others not?

Well, those who are named are no longer with us, so I didn't feel like there'd be any accountability there. And the names that I don't mention, no, of course not. And you got to be real careful with that stuff. But there's catharsis in there for you, at least. Yeah. I think by naming the man that was with my mom, which I think is going to shock a lot of people that he worked with and stuff. And I don't care. I've been so angry with that person for my whole life.

and he's been praised and lauded by the people in his industry for so long. And I just, and I was the little girl that was always around everybody. I was the little girl in the wings at the concerts. And I kind of want them to know what he was doing. Yeah. How was your mom with you writing all this? Freaked out. Yeah, I imagine.

And I had to say, Mom, listen, you're going to read it. And at the beginning, you're not going to like the things that I'm saying. But I hope you realize that it is a love letter to you as well. And she was like, it took her a really long time because I had advanced copies, you know, long ago. And she wouldn't read it, wouldn't read it, wouldn't read it. And now she is. And she's like, she's blown away. And she loves it.

Before we end this part, can I ask you about Dead to Me? Because I loved this show. Of course. I loved it too. You did this with Linda Cardalini. This, to me, was one of the most authentic representations of female friendship I had seen on screen. I just loved that relationship. I wept at the end of that show.

Well, first of all, I have to give props to Liz Feldman because this was all her. The showrunner. You know, she didn't waver from her ideas. We couldn't even get through that stupid scene. The last scene is you and Linda Cardalini. You're like in bed. You're like on this vacation. You always dreamed about going to the beach.

And you're just in your friend zone, snuggling. And you have to, the two of you are saying goodbye to each other. And in real life, the two of you were saying goodbye to each other. That was the last scene we ever shot. And Liz knew that it was not going to be an easy night for us and that the crew was going to cry and that we were going to cry. And so she made sure that no matter. what the schedule was, that that is the last thing we do. And we were crying so hard, Rachel, that she would have to keep coming in going, guys, pull it back. And Linda and I were like,

do some acting. Hold it together and do some acting. Linda and I were just like, we can't. Because I love her. So what you're seeing is literally Linda and Christina sobbing their eyes out. Jen and Judy were gone in that particular moment. And she had held me up so much that season, that girl, literally and figuratively. But also, you know, the sadness of like, there's this thing about my life. Like something good happens to me and then something bad happens all at the same time. And I hate that. And I really get scared.

I get scared now because this was the. job I'd been waiting for my whole career. This was what I had envisioned for myself. I wanted to be free. I wanted to go somewhere. I could just be all the things. And Jen was all the things. She was rageful and she was funny and she was poignant and she was pissed off and she was sad and, you know, all the things. And vulnerable. Like all the things. You don't get that. You just don't. But also, Christina, it is more pronounced in your life to have the good and the bad living so closely in proximity in your life.

But it is ever thus. It is ever thus. But we have to live in both places. And you just have to do it in a really profound way to live in like pain and joy simultaneously all the time. Yeah. I'd say there's probably more pain than there is joy these days, unfortunately. But, you know, I have this other thing going on that is pretty sucky. But I have Bravo.

I have my Apple TV remote. Andy Cohen is like you're a dude. He is my dude. I just did watch what happens on last Monday. We're buds. And we love each other. And, but he, I don't think he knows how fancy my Apple TV remote is. It's just a glow in the dark rubber.

And I have a fidget on the back of it that says breathe, which is made of like sandpaper. So I sit there and I scratch at it all day. These are the things that people don't know. How my glamorous lie. They're glamorous life. Round two. This is insights, Christina. I gotcha.

I'm hearing you. Okay. Okay. One, two, or three. One. What is aged? taught you about love? That's dumb.

What has age taught you about love, Rachel? Turn it on you. You don't think I remember what you said I could do? I'm doing it right now. I've learned a thing or two, Christina, in my old age. What? That it is far from perfect. In fact, the most interesting loves are flawed.

And that in and of itself is a worthy thing. And when I was young, I looked for things that were bright and shiny and people who were bright and shiny. And it kept me from people who were better suited to me. I guess I'm talking explicitly about my husband now. I was interested in people who were the center of attention. And it wasn't until I was older. I mean, I didn't meet him until I was 35. and I had to have lived more life before I could identify him as a beautiful person who was not just a beautiful soul, but the beautiful soul that was a good match for me to partner with.

And it just took me a very long time to figure that. Some people figure it out early. And it took me a minute to figure it out. And so, yeah, and I keep learning that. Yeah. Good answer. Thanks, man. You expecting me to answer my version of it? Yes, you still have to answer it. I have one love in my life and that's my daughter. Yeah. Yeah.

So to me, that's all I would, I'd do anything and everything for her. So I, that's what I know. I, you know, in my life, I didn't really think of love because I really never loved anybody, I don't think. I really didn't. Your mom? Well, my mom, yeah, but that it was like I get mad. You know, I'm talking about, like, in a place of, like, a person that can, in my eyes, can do no wrong, even when I know they're doing wrong. Yeah.

Unconditional or whatever that is. Yes, there you go. There's that word. Unconditional. Yeah. But it means, I get it. I mean, I feel that for my kids too. Yeah.

So that's all I know now, you know. And that's what I've learned that that exists. All the other stuff is, you know, handing me a rose and me swooning. That's not, that's, that'll never happen for me. Right. So for me, I get her. I get that love. and that her love towards me when she shows it is like it's giving me that rose.

It's like I get so lifted up when she comes in in the morning when she goes to leave for school when I can't drive her because I'm doing stuff like this. And she just hugs me or she'll come and crawl into the bed for a minute. And it's always just a minute. But it's the best minute of my life. man, she's 15 and she'll give you a minute of snuggling. I think you're doing something right. Oh, sometimes she'll give me a lot more than that. No, I, a lot of the parents that I know are like, wait, what?

And I said, yeah, she gets under the covers and we'll watch a movie and she'll hold my hand in the car while we're singing and stuff like that. Yeah, I got a pretty swell relationship. She also hates me at the same time. But she's a normal 15-year-old. Yep. Okay. Three. One, two, three, three.

That's the one I've been staring at. What's something you thought about yourself that you had to unlearn? Hmm. Honestly, I don't know because it's like I was going to say like resilience, but I've always had that. I always knew that something was going to be better on the other side and that I was. going to make it through no matter what. As bleak and as dire as things had gotten in my life, there was always this sense of like, it's going to be okay. I think, you know, my anorexia that I dealt with for so long was something that I had to unlearn. And I had to kind of go,

food is awesome. Food's awesome. And who cares? And who cares? And who cares? And now, you know, I have this stomach condition, which I'm really honest about, and which they can't figure out. It's been like four years now. And I can't freaking eat the stuff that I want to eat. And I want to eat it so badly. Like, I want escargo, you guys. I want that's what you want. I really want escargo right now. And it's the only. And why can't you eat it? It's the only living creature that I will eat. Did it great? Yeah, it's the way they prepare it in France.

It's like you've got to have it that way. And then the bread and then you dip it into the stuff. Right, right. It's just like a mushroom. Anyway, I love that. I love truffle pasta. I love cavi. I'm so weak.

Like, I really have like a bougie taste. But I like the other day I was talking to my friend who comes and takes care of me on the weekends. I'm like, I want a veggie dog so bad. Like, I want it so badly right now. And I can't eat it. And it pisses me off. Is this connected to MS or no? I mean, I think it is because it all started when I got MS.

Or when my symptoms got worse. So I don't know. But it sucks because I freaking love food. And then I'll be like, you know, I felt pretty good for the last few days. and I'll eat something that I love and end up in the ER. It's like the dumbest thing. Which is why you love Bravo, because no one has told you yet that Bravo's bad for you, and so you can keep mainlining that.

It's not bad for you. No, it's not bad. I didn't. No, I mean, a doctor hasn't told you like the escargo. The escargo is bad for you. You can't have it. Bravo is fine for your health, and so you should keep absorbing it. That's what I'm saying.

It's really good for your self-esteem, Rachel. And don't you dare talk about it. out my Andy like that. I would never. It's gotten me through the worst of my time. So that is for sure. Take the happiness wherever we get it. One, two, or three. Two. When do you feel most free? When I'm watching Bravo. I get that. Honestly, I love it. I sit here. I come up with my impressions. I'm not making. I'm not making. fun. They are literally impressions. I work on them to show no one. Housewives? Which show are we talking about? I watch every single show on Bravo. Every single one that they have from, you know, the Shaws of Sunset now to the Valley Persian style to Southern Charm to Southern hospitality to

like Vanderpump rules. Okay. Where is the liberation? Where's the freedom? But literally. Because I'm performing. I get to sit here and perform to myself. These women, like the way they talk, the way their mouths move. Ah, the, yeah, when you do the impressions of them and you, like, superimpose yourself into those situations. Yeah, I could totally do, like, I'm really sad that Andy didn't have me do, like, one of the scenes because he does that for people. And he asks, like, you know, some of the biggest actors in the world to reenact a scene.

And I'm so sad he didn't have me reenact a scene because I've got them all down. That seems like a real missed opportunity. I'll go back. He knows. We talked about me going back like at least once a week. Okay. Last round. One, two, or three, beliefs.

One. Who or what is your moral compass? Jesus. I don't think anybody is. You know what I mean? I just don't, you know. I love it if all of us were moral. I, you know, I think.

Is this going to sound weird myself? No. Like, I'm pretty moral. I mean, I can be rude, you know, and I can make, do impressions, not make fun of, do impressions. But morality is a huge one to me. You know, I find that if morality and manners, big ones for me. Why manners? A lot of people didn't have manners.

People don't have manners. Like, always say please and thank you. Eat correctly with your knife and fork. Please. Don't stab it and be gross and talk with your mouthful. Okay. Next one. One, two, or three.

Three. How often do you think about death? Every day. Because it's looming. I mean, it looms for all of us, but for people who have a disease like this, you never know, you know. I mean, I'm, I bought my plots already, okay? I bought them. You bought your plots, Plots, plural?

Yes, there's going to be three of us there. But I did. And my friend and I are going to go take a picnic there. It's really pretty where it is. I'm not going to say where it is. I think it's a lovely thing. No, no, no, I don't want you to say where it is. Oh, shit.

That's right. I forgot. I have to pick my tree out because they're going to, they're going to plant a tree there because it's really sunny. And I want my visitors to not, you know, be sweating. Anyway, I like, I've been thinking about this particular area of this particular place for so long. And I finally was like, is this available? They're like, yes, it is. I was like, oh my God, buying it now. Just buy it now. That way nobody has to deal with it. Do you think a part of you lingers around afterwards? Do you have any thoughts on that? Well, I mean, I talk about it in the book. There's a lingerer. We had a lingerer here for a while. He hasn't been around for a minute, but...

There's a friend of yours who died who... Yeah. Then you think came back and was hanging out. Oh, no, no, I know. I know. And I never really thought of it too deeply, you know, in that extent. but oh no this person was here and a lot and very like made this made his presence very known i don't know how it works man but i know that because

i have this woman who's a doctor that comes to see me and um she she does not she's not Woo-woo. She's in scrubs, you know. And she said, you know, it's so weird. Every time I come into this room, I just keep hearing, to thine own self be true. To thine own self be true. And this person tattooed that on their chest two days before they died. So I knew that she could feel him. And I was already feeling him. So I know I sound like cuckoo-bird, but I swear to God, that, that, that, that dude was here. Now, is he him here in that place? Is it a vibration? I don't know. But, no, he was here. He was talking to me. He was making me sing certain songs and do weird things. Yeah. Do you think that is particular to him or is there, does that make thinking about dying more comfortable? No, I'm very not comfortable because I'm going to hurt my kid. My kid's going to be hurt. Yeah.

So I get really scared about that. I think it's now I'm like really afraid of it because of her. I can't, I don't know. I can't even talk about it. Like I don't know what her life's going to be like and you don't know when it's going to be like any time. Yeah. Okay. Get there behind me, Satan.

Okay. Last one. Two. Two. What's an experience you wish you could give to every person? Being a mom. Really? So many women that don't get to be. I think it's such an incredible job. Such an incredible experience to be a mom. You learn so much. You've got to be strong. You've got to be soft. You've got to be all the things. And you've got to teach. and you've got to be taught, you know? It's ecclesiastes, basically, you know. Did not have that on my bingo card. I didn't know I was going to say it. I'm not even quoting ecclesiastes.

I'm just making up my own ecclesiastes. Right. Every time there's a season. Yes. Did you always want to be a parent? Like, did you know that about your stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. kids are like everything to me i've always been like a person that i loved being around children the gift it is given me many gifts but um i i loved that it has forced me out of myself um if you've lived a lot especially because i was an older mom i became a mom when you know it was pregnant 38 and 40 that's a lot of life it's a lot of time to be self-absorbed And it was like such a gift to just kind of, I mean lose myself in a good way when I say lose myself. Like just de-center myself. It ain't about you anymore. Right. It so isn't at all. No, you can forget about yourself. That's just, I loved, I loved that I didn't, like this whole

everything here didn't matter anymore. Yeah. Because she mattered. That was all that mattered to me was that, you know, she kept breathing. Think about that. We, you know, the first part of their lives, we just want to make sure they're still breathing. And that's a huge, that's a huge responsibility, but it's a responsibility I would take on over and over and over again. We end the show the same way every time.

Okay. We call it a trip in our memory time machine. In the memory time machine, you go back and you revisit one moment from your past. It's not a moment you would change one thing about. It's just a moment you'd like to linger in a little bit long. longer. Which moment do you choose? Being on stage. Which one?

Being in Sweet Charity. Yeah. Yeah. Regardless of everything that had happened and what was going on offstage, being on it, that was glory. Christina Applegate. Her memoir is called You with the Sad Eyes. It is a wonderful book. Thank you very much for writing it and thank you for talking with me.

Thank you for having me, Rachel. If you'd like this episode, go back and listen or watch our episode with Jeanette McCurdy from earlier this year. She's another former child star who battled some of the same demons that Christina did, including an eating disorder. And it is so impressive to see how she has managed to build the life that she wants after an undeniably difficult childhood. This episode was produced by Summer Tamad and edited by Debted by DeMod. Dave Blanchard. He was mastered by Josephine Neonai. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni, and our theme music is by Romteen Arablee. You can reach out to us at Wildcard at NPR.org. We're going to shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. Talk to you then.