Wild Card with Rachel Martin - For Natasha Rothwell improv is like prayer

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Natasha Rothwell can't help but collaborate. She honed her improv skills at the Tokyo Comedy Store which led her to roles in memorable ensemble casts on "Insecure" and "How to Die Alone." Now, her character Belinda is back in the new season of "The White Lotus." Natasha talks with Rachel about bringing her own ideas to the show, the spiritual power of improv and what she's learned about love.To listen sponsor-free, access bonus episodes and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcardSee pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Hey, everyone, just a heads up. This episode contains a little bit of colorful language. Is there anything in your life that feels like praying? Um, it comes to the art for me and improv. You tap into something that's bigger than you when you're improvising and you're in that pocket. I don't know, it's cringe to say it because it's just like, ooh, you know, how does an eloquent dick joke equal praying? but sometimes. Sometimes, girl. I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard.

The game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life. Questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one question back on me. My guest this week is Natasha Rothwell. We would do takes, and I wouldn't even remember having done those things because I was so in it in the moment in the character and it's i was able to channel the creative in that moment and commune with something bigger anyone who has watched season one of the white lotus knows that

natasha rothwell's character belinda is the heart and moral center of the show she's a massage therapist at a fancy resort who puts up with a lot of very privileged people it's shaping up to be the same in season three as belinda returns to the show this time she gets to enjoy the luxuries of resort life herself in Thailand where this season is set. And this time Belinda is at sort of a crossroads in her life, putting herself first for a change, her dreams, prioritizing the life she wants. It's hard not to draw a parallel between Belinda and the woman who plays her, because Natasha Rothwell is our own kind of crossroads. She perfected the hilarious best friend role as Kelly and Issa Rae's show Insecure and enjoyed some blockbuster buzz as Rachel in the Sonic

The Hedgehog movies, my kid's favorite. But she got to take center stage in her own show called How to Die Alone, which was about waking up to your own worth. It was hilarious and heartfelt, and it won an independent spirit award for Best Ensemblecast, but was abruptly canceled after one season. She is, no doubt, managing that disappointment and at the same time soaking up all the white lotus praise. And everyone who loves to watch her shine is anxious to see what she does next. Natasha Rothwell, welcome to Wildcard. Thank you for having me. I need you to write all of my intros forever.

I love it. I'm so glad you're here. Since I developed this show, you were like on my list of people that I was desperate to have on. So I'm so glad it worked. Yay, me too. How do you feel about games? I'm very excited, especially for this game because I'm a fan of the show and just the spontaneity of this and the depth. I'm just like, I'm excited.

Yay. Yeah. I think you're going to have a good time. It's a fun experience. Okay. You're ready to go? Let's do it. Let's do it.

Let's do it. Okay, first three cards. One, two, or three. Three. Three. What's a piece of advice you were smart to ignore? Don't move to New York. Okay.

Who told you to never move to New York? I had someone when I was in D.C. after I had graduated college at University of Maryland. I lived in D.C. And I did improv and theater. And I'd always had ambitions to go to New York. And I kind of had my crosshairs set for New York. And one of my colleagues was just like, don't do that.

Like, just don't do it. Like, you're going to go up there and you're going to be one of all of these people. And here you're like, you could do more here. And hindsight being what it is, I think he was just speaking his fear. years into my life. But I was just like... That's so often what happens, yeah. So often. And so I was glad that I didn't listen to that or allow it to affect my eventual trajectory. So when you landed in New York, placed that experience for me. How old were you?

Where were you living? How were you making a living? Yeah. It was, so it's a little strange. So I, after D.C., I went to Tokyo. So I, so I, I was teaching English and performing at the Tokyo Comedy Store as sort of two part-time jobs to make a living. You know that I lived in Japan and taught English? No. I did. Same. Where did you swear?

Although I was not doing comedy in Tokyo. But I also did that. I was in Sakorashi, like the Enchiba Ken. That's like where I was in the Ebaraki Prefecture, which is like two hours north. of Tokyo. Okay, gotcha. Anyway, I also had that experience, which is a particular experience, especially for women. Yes, it was super interesting, super unique. And I did it because I didn't want to show up to New York with an empty cup. Like, I was pretty sheltered growing up, and I was such a nerd in college. And so I was like, I want to choose this adventure. I want to go and

did it for a year. And it was from there I went to New York. And my little little, sister who's been a New Yorker now for over 20 years was living there at the time. And there was a full-time teaching job that she helped me secure. And it was for being a theater teacher. And yeah, that's how my entry point into New York was teaching. Okay. I know I have to get back to the cards, but I have to ask one more question about Japan. Because to be in a place that is so, for people who haven't been to Japan, there are very few cultures like it anymore. Because Everywhere is heterogeneous and there's so many different kinds of people. And Japan is really homogenous.

Homogenous. Yeah. Yeah. And to live there as a woman or a woman of color is a different thing. And you kind of stand out everywhere you go. Oh, yeah. It was. And I think what I mean the gag is I went there being like, you know, I'm going here for this experience.

and I was really trying to leave all those parts of me that I didn't want to confront behind me. But when you are in such a homogenous environment, I felt like I was wearing polka dots to a stripes party. You know what I mean? Like I saw myself so acutely, all of the things I hated about myself, all the things I wanted to change,

things that I was just like, it all was kind of brought to the surface. And everywhere I went in Japan as a black woman, I had people stopped me for photographs. Like, you know, it was just, It was wild. It was wild. It was also when Obama was elected the first time.

And so when he won, I just remember riding my bike and people shouting Obama to me. And I was just like, like you knew him. Yeah. I owned it. I was like, you know what? Today I am part of the royal family. That's me. It was so funny.

That a Japan experience. I feel like there's more to plum in there. Okay. We're moving on, though, everyone. We're moving on. Okay. one, two, or three? One.

One. At what point in your life did you spend the most time alone? Oh, wow. What point? There's so many, the most time alone. I think because, like, I recharge when I'm alone. And obviously I wrote a show about being alone and dying alone. But for me, there's not like one peak time, but I think I learned that about myself in my teens.

Yeah. I would go up to my room, close the door, and just be in my own world. And I think protecting that alone time is something I learned like later on. Yeah. Did that put you separate in a social way from a group. of friends or it was fine. You just knew when to pull out and recharge and come back. Well, I didn't know when to pull out of those situations because I was a pretty severe people pleaser and being around other people and making them happy and like I would give

until there was nothing left. And that was sort of, you know, valued, right? Martyrdom, you know, like just and it was kind of praised as like in my family just like putting others before you. And so I think I noticed the depletion. And in those moments of aloneness, it was just, it took me a while to click in. But I always, from that teen point forward, realized I need to find time to do this solo, to process and like come back to myself. Yeah. Yeah, I betrayed that solitude for a long time because of people pleasing. Yeah.

It's an important thing to realize about yourself. is the same for me. I mean, in group housing situations, I was always like, I will pay extra for my own room. Yes, yes, yes. Always, I'll pay extra. It's just like, what was that?

I saw something on social media that was just like, nothing is more foreign than when Ariel says in The Little Mermaid, I want to be where the people are. I don't want to be where the people are. I just don't.

Ariel can go. I'm good. I'm good. So we're going to push back for just a second to talk about White Lotus. Congratulations. The White Lotus season three. Yeah. I read in my prep for this conversation that you literally put it on your actual vision board that you wanted to work with Mike White, the creator of the show. Is that true? Yeah. I will. And the, I do have a literal vision board, but I had like a list in my phone of people I wanted to work with. and he was like at the top of that list.

You're telling me my night's little story isn't true. Mike White was in your notes out. He was in my notes out. But in my sort of emotional vision board, yeah, for season one. But season three, I had no idea I was going to be a part of it or that he would ask me to be a part of, you know, the series again. That was a complete surprise. Like he is such a fantastic writer.

He's very much an author. he's, and we're very similar in that we're both writers, we're both actors, we're both directors. And to see someone at that level like Cook, I was like, season one, I was like, this is a masterclass. And I feel like he built such an interesting character that I was really nervous to play, if I'm honest, because here it is, there's a character of color in a mostly white environment in a servile position. Like red flags go up for me because I'm, wanting to make sure that I don't not only take care of this character for me playing her, but just for the, you know, the people. I'm wanting to make sure that, like, I'm not contributing to a perpetuating a stereotype,

like really wanting to see how I could differentiate her from, you know, characters in that legacy. And what I love about this show is that collaboration with Mike and developing Belinda and also just being in his orbit and his proximity because it's just amazing. to watch him work and he's just the nicest guy. Like he's so wonderful to be around. I read that in the spirit of collaboration. It was you who suggested this beautiful scene in the latest season where Belinda's like on this exchange where she's there in Thailand to learn how they do their stuff in the wellness space.

And she's sitting at dinner and she notices a black couple sitting at another table. and they are clearly guests of the resort. Just live in their vacation life, having their moment. Talk about why that was important to include and why you advocated for that. Yeah, I'm obsessed sort of with black travel. I remember traveling when I was real, real broke and seeing a black person sitting in first class

when I was on my way to coach. and it subconsciously let me know that I should be able to do that, that I could do that, that I belonged in that space. And for me, when I was talking to Mike about that moment and pitching it, I was just like I want Belinda to have an interaction where she sees the potential of what could be. You know, she's there flirting with being a guest anyway because she's doing her workshop and, you know, classes by day, but she's truly cosplaying what it might be like to be in that space and no one questioning why she's there. And so I get excited when I see black people traveling, especially luxury travel, because I think it's something that is not showed a lot on television.

And I think so much of what I've aspired to be and do is a consequence of representation. Like I saw Mel Carter in Give Me a Break and I was like, oh, she's a fatty baddie, she's on this show and she's running shit. I want to do that. I have not thought about Mel Carter in that show in so long. That was an awesome show. It was such an awesome show. But I would not have known to aspire for that if I had not seen her. And I feel travel does the same thing in real life.

And so I was so glad that that made it in. I had a longer scene with them, so it was definitely just truncated to the glance because I, and this is Mike's genius, that glance did more than the scene ever did. Oh, totally did. That's what I was just going to say, just for those last scene again.

No, you're not talking to him. You just, there's just like a mutual awareness. See this a little nod. Yeah. Yeah, this says a lot. Okay, round two. All right. Round two.

Insights. Cards are blue. for no particular reason, but I think they're pretty. Okay. One, two, or three. How do you feeling? Let's start with two. Two.

Two. I have never asked this question. Do you take life as it comes, or do you plan for all outcomes? Yeah. I, the best example is just, I'm a chronic overpacker. and it's because I'm preparing for all eventualities. And, well, what if this happens? And this could happen and, like, what if this happens?

And in addition to my social anxiety, I have regular, plain old generalized anxiety, and it necessitates that I prep, like, what if this happens? Like, I need to make sure that we're covered. Give me an example. It's not just clothes. It's not like, oh, I'm going to need this wedge heel, and I also need this, like, ballet slipper. I'm in my 40s, so it's just like, well, if I have some gastrointestinal issues, I need to make sure I'm prepared for all of that.

I got the tums. I got the emotium. Like, what do I need? Because they're definitely not going to have drugstores where you're going. Yeah, exactly. Like, I think it's so crazy that, like, I'm planning as if there's no, it's the end of the world wherever I'm getting. I'm ready for it. But when I was younger, like, my freaking group, I'm just remembering, like, field trips.

They would call me like the mom because in my little fanny pack I'd have everything, you know, like snacks. Snacks. It was just like just in case, just in case. And so that kind of like neuroses was definitely rewarded for a long, long time. But yeah, I'm a planner. And I like to, I don't like to be beholden to those plans like when we're talking about like just general life plans because life has gone so many directions. So I'm very like I have, you know, flexibility when. it comes to planning, but it's nice to me to have. That doesn't throw you? Like if you have a plan and all of a sudden if something happens, it torpedoes it, you got to pivot. You're pretty good at that part? I'm pretty good at pivoting, but it will throw me. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My ADHD, it's just like, this is the plan. This is what we're doing. And if that goes sideways, it will send me into emotional turmoil, but like improv is in my DNA. It's what I did for a living for a long time. So, like, being able to pivot in a moment's

notice and, you know, with a bit of elegance. Yes, and your life. Yes. I do that all the time, but not without some internal frustration. Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, it's not bad. It's not bad to be the planning girl. Okay. Three more cards. One, two, or three. Three. Three. What do you feel like you're constantly chasing? Oh, God. You got to skip and a flip if you want to employ them. Or just go for it. I'm going to flip. You're going to flip this one?

Oh, I'm flipping. Constantly chasing. Constantly seems a little melodramatic, doesn't it? Constantly chasing. You would think I have answers to all these questions. I actually don't. I love that. I'm like searching too, so we can both be searching.

Okay, yeah. Constantly. chasing. I mean, well, this is quite revealing, isn't it? Am I going to say that? I, sure.

Validation. Yeah. Yeah. Not quite feeling, you know, I didn't have any, I was a journalist for many years and got my dream job and I hosted this big NPR news show.

But I just had a whole lot of imposter syndrome. I came from a small town in Idaho. I didn't have any journalists in my family. And so I was always, I always really wanted to be validated by my peers and by my industry. And I felt like I was always really desperate for that. And still find myself in that place. That's so relatable. Yeah.

That resonates with me heavy. I think mine is worthiness. Yeah, it's been elusive, I think, for as long as I can remember, honestly. And it's like the barnacle that sticks on you in, you know, your tweens and teens. It's just, it persists. And I think I'm actively, you know, attacking it. And I think now those thoughts, although they persist, I can acknowledge them. and let them go and not identify with them.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that. Yeah, thank you. Okay. Three more cards in this round. One, two, or three. One.

One. What does age teach you about love? Which I guess is just another way of saying. What does time teach you about love? Yeah. My parents celebrated, 47 years being married on the 23rd of February. It's a long time.

It's a long time. And they're so much, like, they're in love. And I have had a front seat to their love for 44 years. And it's changed the expression of that love. And I don't know why I'm getting emotional. Just going to take a second. It's cheers of joy, honestly. Tell me.

Seeing my parents love at this age, it's beautiful, you know. They go to each other's appointments and they know each other's meds. It's the cutest thing. And my mom forgets. It's just in my, they call Bay and Day are their nicknames for each other. my dad's David and my mom's Sharon, but baby, so Bay and Day. And she'll be like, no, day, you can't have that. You know, like you put that down.

You're allergic. And it's a beautiful thing to see that expression of love over time. And what do you take from what they're teaching you by example? Like what have you learned from them as you watch what can't have been an easy marriage because marriage is not easy in partnership. is not easy over time. No. So are there things they demonstrated for you that you find that you apply in your own life

in your own relationships? Yeah, there's just quitting is not on the table. You know, there's this sticotivness and, you know, they have grown together, you know, and have accepted all of those versions of each other. and my dad had a very demanding job in the Air Force and my mom was raising four children and, you know, there was mutual respect and understanding and levity.

Like, they played all the time. And I think, too, it's just shown me kind of the diversity of the expressions of love, you know. Like, my dad is, you know, losing his eyesight in one of his eyes and my mom just got her knee replaced. And I'm always joking. I'm like, you guys don't make a whole person unless you're together. Like, he's got one eye, you got one knee.

And I'm just like, what is going on? So there's like, you know, I see just how ordinary and extraordinary your love is. I love that. All right, round three. Round three beliefs. One, two, or three. Three. How have your feelings about God changed over time?

Oh. He's gotten so much bigger. Ooh. I think that... He exists for you or it exists for you. It exists for me. I think, again, having grown up in the church, I think I've pivoted from religion to a spiritual practice and am no longer sort of

bound by specific tenants that worked for a lot of old white dudes. You know what I mean? For me, it's about a personal relationship with something bigger than myself. And I feel like my art is an expression of that. And I think when I was much younger, you know, I was very devout. I was trying to do it right. Were you? Yeah.

And then I think, you know, my radicalization happened when I found things. theater, you know, honestly, it was just a playground where I can do and be and explore all the things that may not have been permitted or sanctioned, you know. And it just, that's what I mean by bigger. It just sort of like opened up my eyes to sort of like the beautiful sort of textured landscape and tapestry of just humanity and like what it means to be alive and what what things are beautiful and worthy and to tell the truth, you know, on the page and in the moment when I'm acting. And that's been such like a, yeah, an expansive process. Do you ever wander into churches anymore? I haven't in a long time. I have it in a long time. But I think for me,

I think that's also the growth of my perception. It's not the place. The place is in me. And so that has been the freeing thing of like there is community there. You know, and my parents still go and it's a huge part of their lives. And it makes them whole. It makes them happy. And I love that for them. And I think for me, it was realizing that the location is interior. It's inside of me.

It lives inside of me. And I return to that temple now as much as I can. And that's been the aha, where it's. It's just like it's not feeling guilt. Oh, I haven't been to church in a while. It's like, oh, I haven't been with myself in a while. I hear like a contrarian voice because it's still my nature, like, in my head saying, doesn't that equal, like, worshiping yourself?

Like when you center yourself so much that it no longer becomes, like, external or accountability that a religious structure holds you to. But if it's just about you, then you get to call all the shots. and it becomes kind of an egocentric exercise? I think you, for me, I look inward in order to show up outwardly. So it's a place where I can audit who I am and who I am becoming in relationship to other people. So it's quite a community experience to turn inward. Because for me, at least, I do think that.

those are the relics of my upbringing that influence how I commune with myself. Because I do think, like, you know, baby bathwater, you don't want to throw the whole thing out. So for me, the principles and qualities of my upbringing in the church that resonate with me still are a part of my own communion with God and with, you know, spirit, the universe, whatever you want to call it. And I think for me, me in college, I remember having this moment where I was like, I don't want to believe in anything just because my parents did. I want to believe in it for myself. So let's get digging, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I've talked about this. Oh, everyone wants me to ask you to scoot a little more in the chair. I'm sliding down. I got emotional and went into my safe space. I sunk down into the deep. I'll sit up. So after my parents died, my mom died long time ago of cancer, my dad died like three years ago. And they were the ones who kind of built this spiritual architecture for me. Like they were both very religious. And so it felt like there was a scaffolding there that I was supposed to build in myself. But while they were alive, I just kind of just dealt with the scaffolding and didn't build it myself.

And then when they were gone, I was like, oh, damn it, all I have is the scaffolding. And it's sort of falling down because I never made it my own. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a big deal. Yeah. I think that like, and faith and doubt necessitate each other, right? Totally.

And so I think that, like, I've tried to be as curious as possible about all things, all spirituality. And like you said, like find those pieces of the scaffolding that hold me up. Because I think ultimately that is what that communion is about. It's like how are you edifying yourself and nurturing yourself and building yourself up? And so, yeah, I love that you're on this late in life expedition. You know, we all got to keep moving forward. We just got to keep moving forward. Speaking of which, we got three new cards and Sasha, we've got more to do.

I love it. Two or three. Let's do one. One. Okay. Well, this is related. Is there anything in your life that feels like praying? Maybe praying.

Maybe praying. I don't know if you do that. Anything that feels like praying. It comes to, like, be art for me. I feel like I, you know, if our definition of prayer is sort of communing with a higher power. that is my creative process. There are moments where I, and this happened a lot on Insecure, I think,

it's related to improv. You tap into something that's bigger than you when you're improvising and you're in that pocket. You know, we would do takes as written and then we would do takes that because they knew improv was kind of, I was kind of a hired hand for that. and I wouldn't even remember having done those things because I was so in it in the moment, in the character.

And so it felt very much like I was able to channel the creative in that moment and commune with something bigger. And it sounds like, I don't know, it's cringe to say it because it's just like, ooh, you know, how does an eloquent dick joke equal praying? But sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes, girl, sometimes. Chef's kiss. Chef's kiss.

Okay. It's the last one. The last one. One, two, or three. What's your feeling? I'm feeling like two. Like two. Okay.

Do you think there is order in the universe or is it all chaos? six one, half dozen the other. You know, I think it's nothing's planned out or scripted. I don't believe that. But I do think that... You don't...

So there are limits on the idea of God, that there isn't some predestined God's will that's kind of running the show. Well, I think it's... I don't think that will is fixed. Do you know what I mean? Uh-huh. I think it's...

Yeah, I think for me, there is an order, but there's also free will, right? And I think it's... So that chaos is at play with the order. That's why I'm just like they both are true. And I think we hold both of those things, you know? Or at least I do. And I think that with every dissonable, you make, you're sort of forging a path. And sometime that path is parallel, I think, with

sort of whatever the cosmic, you know, plan is. But I do think that things can run amok. I mean, we're in the middle of running a muck right now. You know what I mean? Like, things can go sideways. But I do think that there are lessons to be learned, you know? And I do think I feel, and I don't know, I'm curious if you do too, that when you feel, feel like you're on the quote unquote path. There's kind of a synchronicity that happens where you're like you feel in flow. You feel like things are working out. And that to me suggests, you know, that there's something larger at play. Yeah. And if it feels chaotic, that's why that's why you pack a full suitcase. That's right. That's right. You plan for every outcome. That's right. Okay, Natasha, we end the show the same way, every time. Okay. The trip in our memory time machine.

So in the time machine, you pick one moment from your past that you would like to revisit. You do not want to change anything about the moment. You just want to linger there a little longer. What moment do you choose? I'm thinking specifically. I went on a trip to Greece, and I was there with, like, some friends. And I just remember floating in the pool in this two-piece. And at one point I took, at one point I took my top off.

As you do. As you do. And I was just kind of floating there. And there was that such. peace, but it was also peace with my body and myself. It was just kind of like a freedom. And this is coming from someone who like would wear giant t-shirts over a one piece, you know, at the community pool when I was younger. So to be at this pool, and I should clarify, this wasn't a public pool. This was at the place you were staying. My courage is not that far up to go to a nude beach. But in the

privacy of this place we were staying in this quiet moment by myself. And I was floating in this little donut and just had my eyes closed and I was just drifting. And I was just like, didn't, had no worry in the world. But I was just so in my body, which I struggle with a lot. And I just was just like had, you know, tits out, a beer in my hand. It was bliss. I would not change the thing about that moment. I love it.

Yeah. Natasha Rothwell. She is now in season three of White Lotus, which you can see on HBO. I'm so happy for all your success, lady. And it was just such a pleasure to get to do this with you. Thank you. Likewise. If you liked this conversation with Natasha Rothwell, check out our episode with Michelle Buteau.

They are both super successful comedic actors with loads of confidence that they've had to cultivate in the face of some of the same kinds of barriers. This episode was produced by Chris Benderev and edited by Ramelwood. It was mastered by Patrick Murray. Our supervising editor is Dave Blanchard. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni. Our theme music is by Romteen Arablewee. You can reach out to us at Wildcard at npr.org.

We're going to shuffle the deck and we will be back with more next week. Talk to you then.