Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Harrison Ford knows how weird his life is

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

Despite being decades into a career that can only be described as iconic, Harrison Ford is still experiencing firsts – like his first Emmy nomination for his role in Apple TV+’s "Shrinking." He spoke with Rachel about staying busy at 83, why he doesn't fear death, and why Jay Leno called him mid-interview to talk about a toilet seat.To listen sponsor-free and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcard See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Hey, it's Rachel. Just a heads up. Harrison Ford is sort of a salty dude, and there's a little bit of salty language in this episode. Has ambition ever led you astray? I don't think so. I'm trying to think of what my ambition is. It wasn't the fame and fortune. It was the work. It's still the thing that is most fun, the making of this stuff. It's an incredible freedom. I'm Rachel Martin. And this is one. Wild Card. The game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life. Questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question, and to flip one question back on me. My guest this week is Harrison Ford. I've lived like 10 lives. I mean, I can't believe how lucky I'd been. Harrison Ford was never in it for the fame.

He was in it for the work, the act of telling stories and movies that would connect with people, and connect they have. From Hans Solo to Indiana Jones, he has brought to life some of the most important film characters in American culture. At this point, he's more than a movie star. He's an icon. At 83, he could just live out the rest of his days on his ranch in Wyoming, and no one would blame him, but he still finds purpose in the work. And in doing so, he just earned himself his first Emmy nomination for his role in the hit show shrinking on Apple TV. I am so happy to welcome Harrison Ford to Wildcard. Hi, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for asking me to do this, whatever this is.

I know, you're going to find out. Okay. All right. Here we go. Let's go. Let's go. One, two, or three. Two.

Two. What's an experience early in life that made you appreciate beauty? Ooh. Okay. Okay. I think I may not have known what beauty was because nobody said, isn't that beautiful?

Admire that. But I think I'd learned, when I was very young, I lived in Chicago, we went to the art museum in Chicago. So I saw a range of art over the years and a variety of different. expressions of artistic interest and I went to art classes there.

I think that I really am, I like a certain kind of order and balance and I see beauty in many, many banal things. Yeah. That's a nice way to live. I see beauty in nature, not just in terms of the stuff you look at, but the order of nature, the mystery, the complexity. That to me is beautiful. Thank you for that. You're welcome. Three more. One, two, three.

One. Mm-hmm. What's a piece of advice you were smart to ignore? Every single piece of advice I ever got. No one ever gave you good advice? I don't know if I got a lot of advice. Really? No.

Maybe because I didn't look like I was interested. But when people ask me for advice, and strangely, occasionally people do. Yeah, I imagine. The only thing I can say is whatever it is you want to do, don't imitate somebody else's way of getting there. Don't try and imitate somebody else's success. You've got to find your own. It would be nice if you would find your own path. How did you have that instinct so early, though?

I was belligerent. Really? Yeah. And ignorant. at the same time. That's a good combo. So you didn't charm your way through the doors of Hollywood executives.

Decidentally not. The doors did not fly off the hinges when they appeared. But something was working. It was a very strange thing that happened. One, I really didn't go to movies very much. Two, I didn't know why I wanted to be an actor and why I thought I could be an actor.

But I discovered acting very late in my college career because I was looking for a class that I could take and get a good grade in because I was a philosophy and English major and I never went class. So you didn't have very good grades, I imagine. I had terrible grades and I was hanging on my skin of my teeth. I got thrown out of school four days before graduation, college. The first one of my family to ever have achieved the possibility of going to college and graduate. And you blew it within four days? Four days before graduation, I would, I was, I was, I was, I was, was asked to go away and not come back. So the plan to get a good grade in the drama class didn't save you from getting kicked

out of college? You know, that's the first time I thought about that. It didn't. I'm going to pull back from the game for a minute. I know. You can do that? You're just getting rolling. But I want to talk more explicitly about shrinking.

That's nice. Yes, please. And congratulations, by the way. Thank you. Because you have been nominated for an Emmy for your role in this TV show. It's very nice. I don't know how it happens or why. Yeah.

Except the show is very good. Good writers. A lot of very talented people working hard to make something that is both meaningful and entertaining. Does this guy feel like you, Dr. Paul Rhodes, who you play in this show? I think when you're doing this kind of a show, the closer you live to who you are, the better everybody is. You don't want to put on too much of a character facade between you and the audience, I think, in this kind of thing. And Dr. Paul Rhodes, for you, felt closer than other characters? He feels disposition-wise.

I feel a kinship to him. I don't agree with everything. He comes out of his mouth, you know. He's reassessing life relationships. He's at a certain age, or he's doing that retrospective. Well, and is in the context. of approaching complications from his Parkinson's disease. Do you research that?

Do you know people who have it? How did that inform how you approach it? It informed me emotionally about how important it is not to trivialize the disease and yet not to be dominated by it in the context of this imaginary story or to try not to be dominated by it.

But we have wonderful examples of people who have lived well and lived fully while having the disease. Michael J. Fox, for one, who was figured, loomed large in Bill Lawrence's our producers' life. And Bill has other relatives, I believe, that have Parkinson's. I know people that have Parkinson's who are close to me.

And life can go on with them. Life does go on, albeit condition. Yeah. Private disease. Yeah. So you just turned 83. At 83, I don't imagine that, I mean, this is just me, but I'm going to be tired. I'm going to be tired, and I might want to work a little bit less.

That is not what you were doing. In fact, I mean, really, the last few years, because you were doing the show with Helen Mirren, the Yellowstone prequel, which is demanding work, I imagine, shooting on location in Montana. And shrinking on Apple. Don't throw in any. Just those two. Yeah. That's your preferred pace?

Yeah. I actually like to work, and I'm kind of up paying in the ass when I'm not working. So that's the setting that makes you happier, is the working. What I really love is being able to work. where I live, not have to go away from home and my family, friends. Yeah. For years and years, it was great to be traveling the world, making big-ass movies. Sounds cool.

But I went to all these interesting places and then went right home, you know. It was not like, it's not that fulfilling. And I'm... You're still in hotels. You're still on airplanes. Yeah, yeah. I love... I like my family. I like my house.

like to be home and I can be home and do this great, have this great job. I love what we're able to do, what we get to do. You pick projects now based on the people you get to work with, or are you still looking for something that opens a new door for you creatively? I don't know what I'm looking for. I do things based on feeling more than anything else and not really. deep feelings. Just, I read the pilot of shrinking one time. What was the feeling that came out after you read it?

Let's get to work. Yeah. I was doing an Indiana Jones movie, and Brett Goldstein sent me the script. And then he came to him, meet me, to find out if I was interested or talked me into it or something like that. Yeah, I opened the door. I said, hi, you're Brett. Yeah, hi. Nice to see you. I'll do it. Didn't even have a coffee. No need. No, but we did have a few scottches after that. I'm sure he was elated to share scottes. It just sounded like fun.

Yeah. And I got the jokes and I liked them. Yeah. You want to play more game? Please. Let's do it. Insights, Harrison Ford. Three. Three. Three.

Has ambition ever led you astray? Don't know. Don't know. Don't know. Don't think so. Because I'm trying to think of what my ambition is. Yeah. Or what was it when you were? One was it?

To make a living as an actor. Yeah. To make a living as an actor. That means, what it means is the same thing. To be a plumber. That's the work I want. to do. That was the trade.

I wasn't the, you know, fame and fortune. It was the work, which is really, I still, I mean, it's still the thing that is most fun, the making of this stuff with other people that are making stuff. And it's just, it's an incredible freedom to start. spend your life doing what I get to do. It's almost unhinging. But I never had the ambition to be, you know, whatever. Some big star or something. I wanted to be successful enough to have access to the good stuff. Yeah. That's all I want. Yeah. Those two come in parallel, though. Like, it's hard to get that. It's hard to get the good scripts and the good directors and the

good colleagues and stay unfamous. Unfamous. And unbothered by all the trappings of fame, which I imagine would have been your preference. To avoid the trappings of fame? No, I'm just love. People are nice to me because of the work that they've seen me do. You're into that part. And which I'm part of, yeah.

Yeah. That's weird. Do you realize how weird that is? I do. I think it would be a weird life, to be honest. It is a very weird life. Yeah. But it's kind of, it's funny.

Yeah. If you can get outside of yourself and look at it. The reason I'm an actor is because I never was in myself. You're familiar with that concept, I suppose. I am? Yeah. Because that's how we end up here in these bizarre and singular professions. Yeah, because you're outside of yourself observing things all the time.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was led into an interest in why people, I'm going to use the word behaved instead of acted like they did. Why do people behave that way? What's going on in that man's head? Is that interesting? Yeah.

Yeah, you just got to study human behavior for a lifetime. Hopefully make some good stories out of it. Well, good stories have come my way. I've been very lucky when I was most active. It really was the height of the movie business. What are we talking about, like 80s? Yeah, late 70s, 80s. And the guys that were working, I mean, there were the new guys,

you know, the Coppolas and the Lucases and the Spielbergs. Those were the new guys, yeah. But there were the old guys. We're still working too, the Pollux and the Pooolas and Mike Nichols. Yeah. She is. Well, you got to work. I mean that I got a dose of both of them.

I'm a really lucky guy. Three more cards. Harrison Ford, one, two, three. Let's go back to one. One. One. What emotion do you understand, better than all the others.

Guilt. Yeah? I'm done. Period. Guilt, period. Exclamation point. I mean, come on. No, no, no.

You've got to give me more. World-class guilt. Just, you know, common. Pedestrian, common guilt. Common pedestrian. You're going to give me a. One of the mill? No.

No. Okay. Is it something you've made peace with, or is it still sort of a nagging thing, the guilt? No, it's failures that cannot be attended to. I don't think they're all that interesting. But they're just failures of relationships and all the common feelings. Yeah. Last one in this round? One, two, three. In this round?

Yeah, man, we got hold. Okay, okay, okay. Two. Two. What do you find most difficult to model for the children in your life? Sobriety. Yeah? Not trying real hard there. Come on, lady.

Oh, you don't like that one. Let's skip it. I'm going to ask another one. Dealer's choice here. What does age teach you about love? Oh, old people can love too. Yeah. You think about falling in love and all of that business. Yeah. You think it's the business of youth or something, you know.

It's not. And staying in love is the issue. Yes. Maintaining, nurturing, basically not fucking up. We all who are in love or in relationships work on that every day. With some days off for bad behavior.

How long have you been married? All of my life, mostly. I was married for the first time at 23 years of age, which should be illegal. I'm very young. You had your first kid very young. And I had my first child very young. And things turned out all right for everybody.

But getting married again is an act of optimism. So you clearly were not soured on the institution itself? No, no, no. I'm just like everybody else. I love being in love. Yeah. Yeah. But you and Callista have been together for over 20 years now, no?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yes. Congratulations. Thank you. I think that's a thing ready to celebrate. Okay, beliefs. One, two, or three?

Three. Three. How often do you think about death? I think about, I really think about other people's dying. Yeah. I think that also counts. So far, I have not developed a fear of it. I mean, I have the appropriate.

I think fear of being involved in an accident. You've had some experience with that. Yes. In the flying machines. Yes, I have. But the actual business of dying, everything around us is dying as well. Yeah. And it's part of nature.

and I accept nature wholeheartedly. Nature is my, my whole belief system is based on nature, basically. So it's just part of what you're supposed to do. Part of living. Yep, the dying. You're supposed to die when you're supposed to die. And you're good with that. Yeah.

Yeah, I am. And that's not because I'm tired of living. It's just that you've got to make room for other people. Three more cards, one, two, three. It's almost done. One. What does it mean to live a good life? You're asking the wrong guy.

Why? Because I know I've been naughty. What does that mean you stole a cookie? Like, I don't... No. I didn't work as hard at some things as I should have. I've not been as good apparent as I should have been. That kind of stuff.

Yeah. Normal. Yeah. But when you think about what you would, I guess, aspire to have happened to you in a lifetime. Oh, shit. I've lived like 10 lives. I mean, I can't believe how lucky I've been. Yeah.

And part of it was I really do remember thinking about wanting to be an actor in terms of wanting to live many lives. So I wanted to investigate the lives and the motivations of a bunch of different people. so I didn't have to surround thinking about myself all the time yeah I get that so you got to do that I got to do it so you got to do what you wanted to do in this life I did yeah not all of us can say that

yeah it's a big deal and I apologize to who anybody that didn't get to do what I'm doing no I I mean I really have been blessed. Do you use that word facetiously or you mean it?

No. No, I use it. You know, it feels like you really have gotten more than you should in a way. Yeah. It's just not fair. Yeah.

Last one. One, two, three. Three. Eh. You answer it. Oh, you're flipping this one? Oh. Preemptive flip?

First time for everything. First, the Emmy nomination. Oh, wait. I get to... Oh, you're going to... Make shit up. Can you read my hand writing? Is there anything in your life that feels like praying?

Here's my answer. I think things that feel like prayer are when I can help. another human when I can get out of the stuff circling in my brain and look outside of my own problems and connect to another human being. And not to give you a big head, but like this, this stuff feels like a prayer to me. Yeah, I feel that way. I feel like thinking about, And I don't think that much about other people, actually. My prayers are to nature. It seems that the cure for all of the things that beset us

would be set straight by following the example of nature. And so prayers are usually directed. to a god. Yeah? Yeah. When I've been asked to consider who my God is, as I was asked by my draft board back in the Vietnam War, I said that my God was nature.

And all of the things that are ascribed to a deity, I think that nature qualifies in all of the categories that God has been given credit for. That's my God, is nature, for what it's worth. We end the show the same way every time. Stop pulling your eyes. No, no. It's good. This is how we do it.

It's a trip in our memory time machine, okay? I'm going to close my eyes now. Okay. In the memory time machine, Harrison Ford, you pick one moment from your past that you would like to revisit. You would not change anything about this moment. It's just a moment you'd like to linger in a little longer. Which moment do you choose? People actually answer that question?

Even Brett Goldstein. Every time. My phone just rang. No, it didn't. It did. It didn't. It's in my bag pocket. It's ringing right now.

It is true. It is for me? Yes. It's shaking my butt. It's God slash nature telling you that you need to come up with one moment. Jay Leno is calling you right now? About my toilet seat. What?

Yeah, Jay's printing a 3D printed toilet seat for me. What is it even happening right now? Why is he printing a toilet seat for you? Because I ask you. Because I asked him. Okay. Because I hadn't seen him in 12 years since he quit the show since he left his show. But I remember that he's got Jay's garage.

Yeah, he has a lot of cars. You guys have a lot of old cars. So Jay is like he is incredibly invested in machinery. And Jay Leno has. medicine's steam engine that was used to light the two square blocks at the World's Fair when electricity was first... Wow. He's into machines. Anyway, so he's got these 3D printers.

And I had this toilet seat from a toilet that is not in production anymore. Okay. And the toilet seat has discolored in a way that is really unattractive. Yeah. I have been on the... You do not want a discolored toilet seat. No. So, this is in Wyoming.

I can't find the toilet seat anywhere. I tried for years. And friends in the plumbing industry helped me to try and get the, can't get the seat. Can't get it. And I'm just sitting around one day, like last week, saying, where the hell am I? Can I 3D print this? Jay Leno. I remember seeing this stuff at Jay.

The first time I ever heard about 3D printing was Jay. at Jay's garage when he showed me around it like 20, maybe 15 years ago. So you figured he's the man for the job? It's really hard to make that kind of call. Hey, Jay Leno, it's me, Harrison Ford. You know, from like 15 years ago or something. And I just wonder, what do you want? I want you.

I want you to print a 3D toilet seat for me. Yeah. He said yes, presumably. He embraced the project in a way that I thought I never could have imagined. People appeared from the depths out of the shadows, and they got involved in it. Is it usable? Can one use a 3D printed toilet seat, or is it just for aesthetics?

No. This is going to be the toilet seat in my office. Well, it's not a toilet in my office. I understand. It's in a small room adjacent. Right, there's a door. It's not just sitting there in your office. It would have been if, anyway.

You know you've told me this whole interesting story as a way to divert. You know that. I know that. I know. We're back. One moment. Don't want to change anything. Could be good, bad.

Oh, yeah. Okay, I got it. Okay. It's the day my aunt walked into my, to, I was in a crib in Chicago. And you're doing this to me. My aunt walked in and said, you have a brother. Probably my earliest memory. And I don't know why.

I chose that. It's just what came to mine. Is that right? Which is what it should be. That's right. The end. Call Jay back. You got to go to check.

No. I hope your toilet gets fixed. Jay. Harrison Ford is nominated for an Emmy for his role in shrinking on Apple. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. If you like that conversation, I highly recommend going back and listening to the episode that we did with Harrison Ford's collaborator. on shrinking Brett Goldstein.

Brett's another guy with a gruff exterior, who was, to be honest, a smidge uncomfortable playing the game. But then he stepped up and gave these really forthcoming and beautiful answers. This episode was produced by Summer Tamad and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Robert Rodriguez. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolana Sangweni, and our theme music is by Romteen Arablewe. We love to hear what you think of the show,

so write us at Wildcard at npr.org. We're going to shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. I'll talk to you then.