Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Ilana Glazer is connecting with their inner animal

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

2024 has been a big year for Ilana Glazer. First they co-wrote and co-starred in "Babes." Now, they have a new stand-up special coming out on Hulu, called "Human Magic." The "Broad City" co-creator and star talks to Rachel about learning how to rebel at age 37, figuring out how to be alone and tapping into their inner animal.To listen sponsor-free, access bonus episodes and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcard See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Hey, everybody, it's Rachel. As we approach the end of the year, I just wanted to thank everyone who has been with us since the very beginning. And I also want to say hi to all the new listeners who have joined us recently. What's up? I am so glad you're here. Whether you're just finding out about us because the New York Times named us one of the top 10 podcasts of the year, hello, or you've been listening religiously for months. I want to remind everyone to make sure to follow our show on your podcast player. So you automatically get a heads up when there's a new episode. And if you like us, and you want to help spread the word, be sure to rate and review us as well

so other people can find us. It gives our show life. Seriously. Okay, that's all. Here's the show. And just a heads up, there is a singular curse word in this episode

and a little bit of sex talk. What was your form of rebelling as a teenager? Oh, my goodness. This, you cracked right in, Rachel Lenton. I did? You cracked right in. You know why? This is what did what?

I mean, this is just playing three strings on a guitar for me. This is a whole chord, which is that I didn't quite rebel very much. I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest chooses questions at random from a deck of cards. Questions about the memories, insights, and beliefs that have shaped them. I have found how limited parenting makes the rest of your life really helpful. My guest this week is comedian Alona Glazer. forced me to draw lines that I never wanted to draw before.

I wanted to be everything for everybody. I met Alana exactly 10 years ago. Alana and their co-star, Abby Jacobson, were riding high on the success from their hilarious web series, Broad City, which became a hit TV show. I interviewed both of them, but I was just back from parental leave for my second kid, and I have to tell you, I was so deeply exhausted in that moment. and what sticks with me from that interview to this day is Alana's energy, like capital E energy.

They were just bursting at the seams with ideas and stories and potential. And I share this because the tired new mothers out there often feel sort of alone and separate from the well-rested, creatively fertile people. So when I saw Alana Glazer's new comedy special on Hulu, Human Magic, which is about the bonkers part of life that is early parenthood, part of me was selfishly like, yes, they have crossed the Rubicon. They get how exhausting it all is. But then I watched Alana's comedy special and I saw the same big E energy,

even though they're now the parent of a toddler. And I realized, damn it, this person is just built this way. And maybe they're going to tell me it's all smoking ears. But from where I sit, I think Alana Glazer's default setting is energy and enthusiasm. And I'm going to add joy to the mix because whenever I watch them perform, I come out happier than I was an hour or two before. Alana Glazer, welcome to Wildcard. Thank you so much.

That was, as you know, the experience of becoming a parent, I am constantly forklamped and I could just let myself go down the avenue and like cry right now. That is so meaningful to me. And I'm so grateful to you for holding that time. Those, you know, that point A to point B of 10 years is like, yeah, just a lot for a lot. A lot happened. Yeah, a lot like in my heart and in my mind. And while so much joy occurred and was created, it's so intense. And it's like, wow. There's a deck of cards in front of me. Okay. I'm going to hold up three at a time and then you pick randomly one, two or three. I surrender to you. You have some power, though. I will give you this power. You have two tools at your disposal. Okay. You can skip one. Sure. So if you're just like this.

This is not my question. Okay. And you can also flip it on me so you can ask me to answer one of the questions before you do. Okay. If you're so inclined. Skip or flip. Skip or flip. We're breaking it up into three rounds.

We sort of get deeper as we go. Copy that. And I'm ready if you are. I'm ready. I trust you. You're ready. Yeah. Okay.

Good. Okay. First three cards. One, two, or three. I'm going to go with three. You were left. Three. What was your form?

of rebelling as a teenager? Oh, my goodness. This, you cracked right in, Rachel Martin. I did. You cracked right in. You know why? Because, I mean, this is just playing three strings on a guitar for me. This is a whole chord, which is that I didn't quite rebel very much as a child or a teenager.

I was very good and was focused on, I guess, goodness and achieving. my rebellion came honestly like I was not secure in it until like the past few years my rebelling like literally against my parents. L.O. L.O. L. I'm 37 years old. And it's like, I mean, it was really in the process of becoming a parent too that I was like, no, I am separate from my parents and also I disagree with this. But of course, of course I had some rebellion. And I guess it finally came in the form of having sex and smoking weed in my, like, senior year of high school. I mean, that's pretty, you know, by the book, definitional of rebellious teenager. Yeah, standard. I would honestly say patriotic.

So, you know, like, finally it came as well as myself. But it was a late, all late bloomer. And then I feel like really becoming a parent. I'm like, oh, I don't care. You know what I mean? I don't care about being accepted. I care more about discovering who I am and what I need and what I like. I care about that more than crossing a line and being accepted back, you know?

So that's really when I found. Wait, I need more on that. Like, in terms of your parenting now, like, how does having a kid make you rebellious? You know, like, as long as I'm focused on fulfilling my needs of myself and my family and my child, then the rest of it, you know, I can be unlikable or not fulfilling the, you know, supportive role or appearance of supportive role that I was hoping to fill before or actually filling, you know, I have found the limits of how long. limited parenting makes the rest of your life really helpful. It has forced me to draw lines that I never wanted to draw before. I wanted to be everything for everybody. And it's like so important to my health and my kids' health, but also like who you put out into the world. It's really important for the, it's actually serves the world at large to give it the healthiest kid I can.

So it's been like such a helpful reorganization. Yeah. Okay, we got three more cards. We're going to keep going. One, two, or three. Now I'm going to go with my left, number one, please. What's something you thought was normal about your childhood that you now realize was unusual? My mother and I using the bathroom with the door open. There's so much in my childhood that, like, Like, you know, my dad would always say, if he didn't have an answer for something where I'm like, why do you do this? He would always say, because I'm Jewish.

Because I'm Jewish. And I, so I really thought a lot of things were like, because we were Jewish, I thought that my. Like, that's why you left the bathroom door over? Yes. And I don't think this is Jewish tradition is what I'm gathering now. I don't, I, you know, okay. I love that you were that comfortable in your house. I was that comfortable and, but also that uncomfortable with temporarily separating.

Oh, whoa. Yeah. I wonder you didn't want to rebel. Yeah. I do a lot of therapy. And I'm like really these themes, you better believe we're going to circle these themes back and forth and back and forth return and loop-de-loop to them. Because, yeah, it's like it's something that I carried into my adulthood and then got to a point at which I had to really look at why is the door open? Open.

Why can't I be with myself for the? moment. Yeah. Dogs, you know what I mean? Like, we had a, we had a corner of the yard that my mom trained our chocolate lab to go to, to pee and poop. If Emma is peeing and pooping in private, in relative privacy, in relative privacy, I think this human, I think her relative human sister should do that too. How are you doing on going number one and number two behind a closed door these days? I am, it's good. It's going well.

Yeah, it's good. It's like my daughter is using the potty. And I have to say now it's like making sense as I'm articulating this all. I love it. I love peen and poop it at the same time when she's on the potty and I'm here or like really like being close to her as she goes to the bathroom. I find it just so sweet. You know what I mean? This person like doing these things for the first.

It's very intimate. It's intimate. It's like so weirdly beautiful, you know. It's like so funny and like, I don't know, animalistic. I really do appreciate that being like, damn, we're just animals. We're just apes. We're dogs. We're pigs.

You know, like we're, it's just, but then the separation and modeling it is useful. I recently was like actually, it was a couple months ago. So she's like almost three and a half. She was like three and a quarter. And it's just so interesting to watch her brain. You can see her. her eyes register certain things and, or I can see her eyes register certain things. And like, I asked her recently, I was in the bathroom and I was like, can I have some privacy for a second?

And she was like, what is going on? You need privacy from me? And I saw her register in it and she was a little upset. And then she turned and walked away. Oh. And I was like, okay, you know, that's a hard separation. But here we are. And this is a necessary. This is good. I think it's healthy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I remember all those moments with my boys. How old are they? The very first time. They're 10 and 12. Oh, my God. It's so crazy now that, like, kids of any age are three to me, because my daughter's three. You know what I mean? And I'm just like, damn. Okay, I'm going to pull away from the game for a second and talk about your creative life, specifically what you're working on right now because you made a stand-up special. Congratulations. I did. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. It's called. human magic, and it's a return to your roots, right? Stand-up is like where you started.

Yes. Stand-up is, as Michelle Butow, my co-star in Babes, and one of my favorite comedians, literally of all time, said once, we were just yapping on the phone like a year or two ago, maybe before both of our tours. And we were just talking about how hard it is and how we need it and we love it, but we cannot stand it. And she said, it's an affliction. It's an affliction. Stand-ups and affliction. And I was like, damn, is that ever true? It, like, reminds me of, like, Passover and reading the Seder and reading about these, like, biblical afflictions.

You know, it's like this thing that I can't not do need, but, like, just turns me inside. Like, locust? Yes, truly. It's like, it's so, it turns me inside out. It makes me rethink everything. But this special was, like, really the first time in which I felt, like, personally organized, you know? And I felt, like, more polished professionally. than ever before and like proud professionally of stand-up than ever before.

It's totally hilarious. It is well we're seeing. A lot of it is your reflections about early parenthood, which I find interesting because it's only in retrospect that I find a lot of that funny in the moment. I had a real hard time like getting outside of it and being like that you will laugh someday even though you're so tired and your house is a disaster. and it feels like you've raised two little monsters into the world. Yeah. But it'll be funny someday. Yeah.

Well, you have two boys, too. Yeah. Which is like, you know, I hate to create separation between genders, but it is different. So far I've seen in my experience. But I'm sorry, I cut you off. So can you, no, but can you, are you good at in the moment being like, this is hard and it's also hilarious. And I shall remember this for my comedy special. Yeah.

I think, I think this is like just what I've been training for forever to be in it, but also of it. and to be thinking of it. It's speaking of an affliction, it's mentally ill. The three scopes, you know what I mean? I'm at several levels at once. And this is what I'm saying also is like I struggled to be present. It's like an anxiety thing where sometimes I'll jump away from the present moment to like write in my head to cope with how hard it is in the moment. And it's not, I don't like it.

I want to just be present. I want to be a present animal. I'm thinking of Mario Heller's Nightbeast. Everybody should go see that. I want to be a dog. You know what I mean? I just want to be sniffing and up in it. And I'm like writing.

You know what I mean? Like I really... That takes you out of it. Yeah. And I yearn to be... I like that messiness. I admire it. I just...

And I'm trying to be it. But it's also a coping mechanism. That does work for me. Okay, let's do it. Next round. One, two, or three. Number one, please. Well, I feel like we know the answer to this.

Oh, great. We've covered so many things. themes. I don't know. How comfortable are you with being alone? I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to buck the binary with this answer and say, I'm going to say increasingly. Yeah. But that is the, that is the accurate answer increasingly. But it's tough. I really feed off people. I love people. I love intellectual intercourse. I love, um, connecting and engaging, but I'm increasingly comfortable alone. And also, like, having such a

high needs, tiny individual needing me so often it's, like, much more contrasted as a relief to be a little alone. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas before, there may have been anxiety associated with that, and now it's just such, it's just in such scarce supply. Yeah, that it's like, you've got to look forward to it. I like this, but I'm nuts. I'm leaving voice memos. People aren't even available. I'm still letting them know what's on my mind. Oh, yeah. But I am someone who very, I like crave a lone time. And so, yeah, then, yeah. Are you tall? I don't know. Am I? How tall are you? Five, I mean, I think I'm five seven. My husband insists that I'm five, six and three quarters. Oh, copy that. You know, I don't know if it's changed, but in the early 2000s, in those toxic days of, um, toxic. I was a teenager at that time and the toxic messaging I got. For some reason, I know that modeling, you have to be 5-7. So it's like, you're model high, babe. Okay. Wait, how does this, is this just a random interstitial? Or does this? Like, craving alone time and being, like, walking, like, so tall. And being a model?

being a model and like gliding through the streets of DC LA. Yeah, that's what I do. Gliding through the streets of DC and like popping your collar and like not wanting the bottom half of your face to be seen. I'm just like, yeah, she likes to be alone. I'm like short and I'm like, hey, everybody, anybody want to hear a joke? You know, I don't know. I just wanted to, I just wanted to picture it. I just want to picture it.

Okay. Yeah, for sure. I want you to always think of me that way. It's completely the opposite of how I am. I thought you were five nine. I was five nine. I was giving five nine energy. And it's like this like, I don't know, this like goyish tall thing that I'm just like wow. Like just like on her hair is like flown. It's like flying back. That made me, I think I spent. I love it. Talk to Lou Gea of that. Okay. I haven't skipped. I haven't flipped. I know what you haven't. I love these cues. Reginald. You just go. You're just going. All right. One, two, three. Oh, three. Are you good at knowing when something should end?

Yes. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah, I am. I am. I am. Yes. Yes, I have.

Broad City. I was like a big, you know, we had signed our contract of seven seasons. And then, you know, we both, we both came to it and Abby and I. And it was, Comedy Central was like, huh? But I was like, you know, and we were like, ambivalent and unsure. But, like, it just, I think that's, yeah, that's something I would say is elegant about me, knowing when things are at their end. Yeah.

That's a, that's an admirable quality because it's not the same for everybody. And especially if you have, if you got something good going on and there are people telling you, it's good, just keep going, it's good. And to be able to have something internally that tells you, nah, I think I'm, I think I'm going to stop now. Yeah, and like being able to trust that I am generative beyond this moment, whether it's a creative project or anything, you know, but that I am secure, that I will keep generating new layers and, like, do without thinking. That was something that the experience of pregnancy was so incredible. I'm such an overthinking and a planner. Creating a person without thinking about it was I was like, I'm not even thinking about this. And my body knows what to do.

And, like, you know, we get a scrape and the skin grows back. And it's just, like, just trusting in my own humanity. In what, though? Is it, like, just a gut feeling on the endings thing? You're just like, I just feel like we should stop. Yeah, you know, it's like, I don't know. I was a drummer for many years. I miss it.

And I love, yes. And I just loved percussion. For a time, I was like, I'm going to be an orchestra percussionist. Can you imagine me like on a timpini? Like, dumb, da, da, like, bum, bum. And it's like, I think it's like a rhythm thing. You know what I mean?

It's like a larger scale rhythm thing of like, this is over. You know, and accepting the loss too. Yeah. But new things happen after that. Yeah. We're into round three. Here are the cards. One, two, or three.

Let's go with number one. Oh, I like this question. Is time a positive or negative force in your life? I mean, what? What even is that? Yeah. It's a force. It's by force. I'm constantly like, wow, one day I'm going to die.

And I really hope it's long before you, you little nugget. I mean, I'm constantly thinking about holding my death, thinking about how precious. With my kid, it's, oh, my God, is it painful? It's so crazy how the pain is so beautiful. It's like so, such a crazy dichotomy that like capitalism and like middle class, the construct of the middle class is so, has so tactlessly decomposed where it's like, like pain is bad and beautiful's good. You know, and it's like, no, it's two sides of the same coin and so much more complex than we've allowed the space for in mainstream discourse as we've reduced sentences to either like, I don't even know what authoritarianism or like, you know what I mean, like skincare nonsense or something. So I can't really, like it's not good or bad time. It just is the framework I'm working within. Yeah. But I'm but I'm a planner and I want to make the most. of my time and I, I decreasingly feel it slipping away. I decreasingly feel it slipping away as I am

more able to practice presence and accept what is. Yeah. It's a weird thing. People are always like, the days are long, but the years are short. And I just hated those maxims of people telling me about this weird bullshit phrases that parents say. And then you get in it, you're like, wow, that's weird. That's true. That's a weird and true experience. I had this bit that I cut where like, because it was like, I never found, it was just like too much to encompass. But like I, when people are like, it go so fast, I go so fast, I'm like, shut up, you know? Because I'm seeing like one of those like sand timers. That's how it feels to me that it's slipping away. Like, shut up. Also, like, you're dumping your.

your regrets on me, like, leave me alone. And I, like, really, I try to be really my husband and I both, we try to be really mindful about being present and just paying attention, paying close attention. That stretches it out. You know, if you're really noticing the changes as it happens. Yeah. Okay. Three more.

One, two, three. I picked number one. Now I'll go with number two. What's a place you consider sick? The bath. The bath. Yeah. Yeah, that's your space.

Love it. Love the bath. My husband and I have like solved many problems or so we thought in the bath. And it's so fun with a little kiddo and like how, I don't know, sometimes we get in the bath with her, just her taking a bath and just like watching her. She's at this age where she's like coming up with all these stories. And it's just like, so much is happening in here. And like water is just to like get to get in that element literally changes things.

Yeah. Sitting on the side of the bath with my kid. So my older kid no longer will let me be anywhere near him when he is showering or bathing. But the younger one will still let me come in, you know, and like sit on the toilet while he's taking a bath. And that's where the good stories come. Yes, dude. Stories. And I'm just waiting for the day when he's like.

Bye-bye. So sad. Okay. Okay, the only one left is Trace. Last three. One, two, three. Thank you. You're going to speak a little Spanish.

Is there anything in your life that has felt predestined? I mean, like, my whole life feels predestined to me. I feel absolutely connected through. my bloodline, through my many lives, the different bodies, my spirit has inhabited. You're laughing, but do you think that? Yes. Yeah. I'm laughing because it's like, damn, girl, here we are talking about this. And I'm telling you what I really believe. Yeah. Yeah. I believe, oh gosh, I'm like increasingly spiritual, increasingly observant in my Judaism. Are you? Yes. Increasingly praying more and more and more. Yeah, I absolutely believe my work, my family. I do believe it's predestined. I do also believe in free will and willing or like rising to meet your destiny. I don't think it just is handed to you. I think it's there for you to take if you can like build the ladder to reach.

and grab it or whatever, but yeah, all of it. That's a beautiful revelation. What about Judaism? You said you're rediscovering that or finding more of it to be applicable to you. Yeah, I'm so grateful for my Jewish faith and culture as part of my identity in this life. And in, you know, finding the real. real Jewish left in New York makes me feel so found, you know. Jews who hold progressive values speak truth to that power and build community and organize around our truth-seeking values

is something I am so proud of and associate with Judaism. And I love, you know, connecting it with other people who identify that same kind of value system with their culture or faith. But for my experience in my life, it's my Judaism that is the vessel through which I claim these values. We end the show the same way every time with a trip in our memory time machine where you choose one memory from your past that you would like to revisit. It is not a memory you would want to change anything about. You just want to linger there a little longer. What moment do you choose? Okay. My response comes with a deep sadness. Maybe that's the situation always, but yeah, the drawing of pain at the same time. You know, because, yes, yes, pain and beauty, which is

is actually what I really learned from this friend. So you know Josh Rabinowitz, who I wrote Babes with? Yeah. And you know the character Claude in Bays. Yes, from Babes. Claude is based on our mutual best friend, Kevin Barnett, who passed away in 2019. And it was a huge loss for the comedy community, but also the world. Like, you would be interviewing him tomorrow.

He was just talented at everything and so charismatic. and his energy. He was so brilliant. And remember the Lucas brothers? There and Babes, there are the S-D. Yes, the S-D-U-U-G guys. That's a bad moniker. But, yeah. Keith and Kenny Lucas. So Josh and Kevin and Keith and Kenny Lucas and I, Broad City was ending and, you know, Abby and I had chosen it and made it so. And right before this physical world lost Kevin, these boys and I, we were having dinner at night market. There's like a night market in L.A. It's this Thai restaurant that's so delicious. And there's one in West Hollywood, one on the east side. We were at the, we were at the one in Hollywood. And we had, we were, I was 32, and we had all known each other for about 10 years at this

point. And with Broad City ending and with our like first, you know, the first act of all of our careers and we had found our footing in this career ending, we were like just having dinner and we were so happy together. And we were just cracking up and laughing and just so excited about what was ahead for us all as a group. And then we went, we made the adult decision not to go out and drink, but to go back to my hotel and we ordered ice cream and tea. And they were also these, the boys were like so happy to be taken care of me. And I like love being a mommy. And I was like, will just have tea. And we just, you know, we just, we did spend hours together. But like, I wish, I don't know, I wish like even an extra hour, even just an extra hour. Like, it didn't have to end,

you know, even though I'm very good at endings, I think I ended it at the right time. But looking ahead at the loss of Kevin so shortly after that, about a week after, we, I could have just stayed up till dawn with them. I think that would have been even better. Alana Glazer, you can see their new stand-up special out December 12. 20th on Hulu. It's called human magic. It is indeed magical. As are you, Alana. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you, Rachel. This was such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. I want to close with the remembrance today. The poet Nikki Giovanni died this week. Nikki was on our show this past summer, and it was one of the most life-affirming conversations that I've had on

this show. She was just a remarkable person who changed the world with her words. One of the cards that came up during my conversation with Nikki was about legacy. She didn't want to think about hers, but it is impossible for all of us not to. Duty above all, she told me. She fulfilled hers and then some. So go listen if you want to feel inspired and maybe need a laugh because she was so, so funny. And not even like funny for a poet, like actually funny. You'll love it. Just a heads up that this week we are making our wildcard. plus episode available to everyone, not just our subscribers.

These are our episodes where you get to hear a little more from our guests, and I share some of my reflections about the show. You can hear a bonus question with John Lithgow, and you'll also hear Alana talk about adjusting to the world of adult responsibility. I started mothers helping at 9. Which is like babysitting, but the parents are around. But yeah, you get... But the parents are drunk. Next week on Wildcard, we talk to director Barry Jenkins. This episode was produced by Lee Hale and edited by Dave Blanchard.

It was mastered by Quasi Lee. Wildcard's executive producer is Beth Donovan. Our theme music is by Romteen Arabley. You can reach out to us at Wildcard at npr.org. We love it when you do. We'll shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. Talk to you then.