Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Jenny Slate turns fear inside out

Episode Date: May 1, 2024

Welcome to Wild Card with Rachel Martin. In this first episode, Rachel talks to Jenny Slate, known for her roles in Obvious Child, Marcel the Shell with Shoes On and Parks and Recreation. Jenny opens up about whether fate brought her to her husband, what she's sacrificed for motherhood and what's so special about margarine and white bread sandwiches.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Just a heads up, there is a smidge of colorful language in this episode. I mean, I think it is very well-placed cursing. I'm going to let you be the judge. Okay, here's the show. Is there anything in your life that has felt predestined? I guess, no, I've never felt that anything was predestined. I've just felt as if every now and then it feels like a meteor shower and, like, good fortune falls into my life like that.

I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest chooses questions at random. Pick a card one through three. They're questions about the memories, the insights, and the beliefs that have shaped their lives. It was the most positive experience of my life because I exceeded all of the limits of what I thought I was capable of. This week, comedian and actress Jenny Slate is playing the game. Wow, I'm nervous. Why? Okay. Whatever.

Okay, so this is our very first episode, and I want you to understand how this whole thing came about. I spent a lot of years hosting news shows at NPR, and I got really tired of covering stories that reinforced how bad everything in the world was. Basically, I was burned out, but it was also bigger than my job. My dad died unexpectedly, and my mom had died a long time ago. So I was feeling really empty and kind of lost, and I felt this. urgency. Like, all I wanted to do was think through really big questions about what it means to be alive. What experiences make us who we are? What lessons are we learning over and over? What beliefs help us make sense of the world. And when I started opening up about all this to friends,

I realized a lot of other people were also swimming around in these kinds of questions. So I thought, what if we talked about this stuff out loud? But I get it, that can be a little intimidating. So we came up with this idea for a game to make it easier. This is the way it works. We made this little deck of cards with really big questions on them. My guests, pick cards from the deck at random. And then they got to answer the questions. And I am telling you, it's amazing what happens.

They start talking about ideas and experiences that they haven't talked about before. And then I'm doing the same thing. And I always leave these conversations feeling better. That no matter how different we are, we're all working through the same stuff. And my hope is that this is going to happen for you, too, that you'll find yourself thinking about these questions and how they fit into your own life. So that's how this show came to be. And I could not have dreamed up a better guest to get things started than Jenny Slate.

She is one of the deepest, most interesting comedians out there, in my opinion. And that comes out in her stand-up and her movies. In particular, Marcel the Shell with shoes on, which is definitely one of the weirdest, most random, beautiful movies I have ever. scene. Also, Jenny's pretty famous for playing Mona Lisa Saperstein from the hit show Parks and Rec. And this year, she released her latest comedy special. It's called Seasoned Professional, which at this point in her career, she really is, even if she's still figuring out life like the rest of us. Jenny Slate, I am so happy that you're here. Thank you for doing this.

Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here. Honored. That's so nice. Okay, I actually brought you here to play a game. So in front of of me, I've got this deck of cards. Okay. So for each question, you're going to choose one at random to answer. Oh, okay? It's like a choose your own adventure kind of thing. Okay.

So there are a couple rules. The first is that you get one skip. You can choose to pass on the question and I'll just replace it with another question from the deck. Okay. Okay. The second rule is you can put me on the spot and ask me to answer one of the questions before you do.

Oh, okay. Okay. No, it's not improv. It's going to be okay. All right, we are breaking it up into three rounds. Memories, insights, and beliefs. And because this is a game, there is a prize when you make it to the end. Ooh. Okay. Are you ready? Yes. Round one. This is about memories. Okay. We're looking back at the people, experiences, places that shaped you. I am holding three cards in my hand. Wow. I'm nervous. Why? Okay. Whatever. Don't be nervous. Don't be nervous. Okay, pick a card one through three.

Three. Three. Oh, I like this one. What's an ordinary place that feels extraordinary to you because of what happened there? You know, this sounds really almost, I don't know, maybe gross or something, but it's not, but, or too much or something or gloopy, cheesy. But I really feel that way about our bedroom in Massachusetts and not because I'm like, you won't believe what went down in here. But that I, my husband is someone who I met as a stranger.

And I really felt that I would not see him again. I thought about him a lot. And I heard from another friend about where he lived in Massachusetts. And it felt to me that he lived almost in another dimension. The more I would hear about his personality, the more I just felt like, yeah, but I would never be able to be with someone like that. You know, they would never like me. And it just wouldn't work and how would I get there and whatever. And I just remember the first time that I went to sleep in that bedroom and we were sleeping.

And I was like, wow, this is a real place. You know, like, it's kind of like seeing the Eiffel Tower. And I just was like, I can't believe. Like, it is real. It is real. And I'm here. And I really feel that way still. And now that, and that was when he lived there by himself.

And it was just filled with, like, so much of his, his, we live in a house that was built for his great grandmother. And it was just, like, filled with, like, a hundred years. of stuff. And it felt very like bachelory, old, like old fashion, like Dickensian bachelory. Like, you know, there's like a taxidermy tortoise in here. Like, what is going on? And like, as all bachelors have. Totally. Just like, whoa. And like heavy draperies from before. And I just was like, what the? And, you know, now that we live there, it's like very sparse. I prefer a more shaker aesthetic. Like, I just want one pitcher. I just like want to one pitcher. I just like want to one old pitcher on one old cupboard and like one old rug and one bed and nothing.

I just don't want any stuff. I don't want any appliances. We can have a lamp. But like, you know, but when I'm in there, I'm like, I cannot believe this. I can't believe this happened. Do you, I, you had been married before you were divorced. Did something have to change in you to make this relationship work? Or did it, it was just.

like timing and you see him. He was just extraordinary and he just met you at the right time. I think it's all of those. Like, you know, my experience is that, unfortunately, you don't usually get to work on one issue at once. And I think of it a lot as, like, at the beginning of our relationship. Like, I met him. And then a year later, we started to date and I couldn't stop the timing of falling in love with him and it was right for both of us to fall in love and that was totally right on but while walking down that path I was very aware that I was injured and it was like learning to trust was not just learning to trust like the big things you know I hope this person won't lie to me I hope that they they won't tell

they're having one experience while having another. I hope they won't secretly resent me for the things that they first thought were attractive about me. I think as a person who is a performer and you want to kind of shine your power out, that can be really attractive to people and then all of a sudden they can get angry about it, that it's not just for them. And I had to understand that the big things I could trust him for, but that the things that really play on myself worth. Like, will this person still stay with me if I need soothing and I am

what appears to be almost irrationally afraid because of the damage or the injuries that I, you know, have already happened to me. And yeah, like I want to walk down this road with you, but will you be with me if I limp and will you carry me if I just am like too tired? Will you accept me for the state that I'm in if I promise that I really am working to heal and go forward? And he said yes to all those things, presumably. Jeez, I wrong. Seems like he did. I don't know.

Yeah, no, he did. He did. And I said yes to them for him, too, you know. Yeah, right. I'm not just the, you know, a living disaster. And he's perfect. I mean, I think he's perfect. Well, he had bad taste in, you know, bedroom.

and clutter. That turtle in there. Still round one. Three new cards. Pick a number one through three. Sorry. I just forgot all the numbers. I know.

So one. I was almost like, A. A. One. What's the biggest sacrifice you've ever made? Ooh. You go first. Aren't I allowed to make you do that?

You are. Okay. And truly, I actually have not thought, of answers to all these questions, which maybe in retrospect, I should have, but I really haven't. So what have I sacrificed? I mean, my sleep there. This is the easy one. I have sacrificed my sleep for my job. I did for many years. I did this job. I hosted morning edition. I had to get up at three in the morning. And I just am a bad sleeper. And I also had very young. children. And that was a sacrifice. Not sleeping is a problem. I'm just here to tell America. Oh, my gosh.

That you really need the sleep. It'll change your whole personality. It really will. No, I would wake up and not have slept and feel like the worst possible version of myself. And then I was the worst colleague. I was the worst parent. I was the worst spouse. I was the worst friend. And sooner or later, I just woke up and I was like, this sacrifice is no longer worth it to me. So that's my answer. Yeah, I get that. But now you have to answer it. I've got to say, and I really don't like it when people are like flip or glib.

But I think that the biggest sacrifice that I have ever made, I put my physical body through pregnancy and exploded my vagina. That's right. And that is real. It's just like if you – it's a huge. huge sacrifice and there's a joke in my special about that like, you know, just like how we would treat a man if he had exploded his penis to let a baby out, you know, how we would feel about it. And I mean, of course, it's, it's all in comedy and it's not meant to be disrespectful, but it is a sacrifice. Sometimes I just feel that we don't, I, this is,

I don't like this phrasing, and I'm about to use it, but we don't talk about this enough. But it's like the weirdest thing about giving birth to me, to me. Because I knew it was coming, but I really, when it was factually happening, I was like, oh, it's just this. It's that I have just sustained the largest injury to my body of my life. Yeah. I am completely, like I am exploded. and now I don't actually get to rehabilitate myself the way that I, like if my vagina were exploded into war, they would put me in a facility to help me get back on my feet.

Yeah. Physical therapy, a lot of attention. But this is like you explode your vagina or you get, you know, cut open in an emergency. If you're the one that, if you're the parent that, you know, gave birth, if that's the way you get your child. There are lots of different ways. This is just mine. Right.

But then they're just like, can you start, can you pee right now? And you're just like, no, that's like a crazy thing. With my exploded vagina. Yeah, like, how dare you? You know? And then also you're not, no, you don't go to bed. You don't. And you better make some milk right away.

Because if you don't, not that there's not formula, but if you don't in this patriarchy, you'll feel ashamed. Right. You know, and then you're going to have to work through that. And you're going to have to keep on doing it. I just feel like I'm happy. than ever. And I do think it sort of like accelerated my own personal evolution to have my daughter. And I I also think that even though the birth was a birth, I'm lucky enough to say that it was like safe. And even though it was

like during a plague and I had to wear a mask, it was the most positive experience of my life because I exceeded all of the limits of what I thought I was capable of. And I like met it like softly and with flexibility and a ton of screaming and also like pooping. But like, I'm like, yeah, I did it. Like, I definitely did that. And I'm, I'm really, really brave about my body. And I didn't realize that I am. And I am. Yeah. And later, when you're jumping on the trampoline with your daughter and you start to pee a little bit, you'll have her to think. Oh, my God. As if that hasn't already happened. Not that. That's never happened to me ever. Yeah, no. My gosh. I haven't peed again, honestly. We're going to pause for a quick break. More with Jenny Slate after this.

Okay, we are moving on. Round two. This is about insights, right? These are lessons that you're learning, things you're working on right now. Three new cards. Pick a card one through three. Two. What is something you think about very differently today than you did 10 years ago? Wow. I guess dressing, like not salad dressing. I've always loved. I loved it and I'll never stop. Love ranch. I love ranch. Dressing my body. Dressing my body. Yeah. What is different about how you think of that? I think I just am pleased to say that I've come through a fair amount of internalized misogyny. And like, so 10 years ago I was 31 and it was like, you better wear that bikini. You better wear that bikini, you know, this just, this horrible, horrible, brutal feelings about my physical body and about how I needed to present, like, what sexiness was and how much of my body to show and what it was like.

And I didn't, I've always had a pretty clear sense of actually what I find to be beautiful. but I feel like it was sort of muddled up, muddied, and now I just kind of want to dress like Jane Goodall. She has amazing stuff. But like sometimes with a crop top. Yeah, I don't know. Like let it flow. I don't really know. But I'm just like, nobody here is seeing my camel toe ever again.

You have got to be kidding me. If you think that I'm wearing yoga pants once in my life, unless I'm playing a character who wears that, I'm working out in a big sweatpants. And by working out, I mean I'm in my house doing laundry. I'm, you know, there's no way I just used to feel that I had to prove that like my butt was there. And now I'm like, it's not relevant. It's not relevant to the conversation, to any conversation. It's not relevant whether or not you think my butt is there. I know it's there.

My toilet knows it's there. And like my husband knows it's there. And unfortunately, some of my friends know it's there. Okay, next question in round two. Pick a card one through three. Two. Two. Two. Two. Two. What are you most afraid of at this point in your life? I'm just like always afraid that something bad will happen to the people that I love. I'm, I feel that so strongly. But I felt that way, like, this sort of the threat, I genuinely. And this sounds like almost foolish. I don't think about my own death at all, not because I'm pushing it to the side. But I just, it's just not how I function.

But I have, since I was a little girl, like every time my grandparents left our house, I would be almost choking on like a fear, like gaggy, closed throat fear that they would get in a car accident on the way home. And I've lost three out of four of my grandparents. and it is a searing terrible loss, even though I'm an adult. And I know one thing you kind of know about grandparents is that they'll probably die. And like before other people that you know, and that's really terrifying. But I've just always been that way. And obviously now that I have my daughter, I really have to not let that take over, that fear.

Yeah, I will tell you, I feel like that's the hardest part of parenting is really not getting, not suffocating through that. Yeah. Not suffocating in that fear. I lost both my parents too young, like my mom a long time ago now. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. But you do start to, I do start to catastrophize.

You like plan. Like you do some emotional training. I'll be like, okay, if this bad thing happens, okay, I'll still be okay. It's not good. And you just have a kid and raise a kid anyway. Like despite this huge risk, you know, that your person walking out that something is going to harm them. Something will because kids lead their own lives. Like it might not be some horrible thing.

But, you know, in different gradations, the kids will be hurt, heartbroken, all that scale of pain that your kid can do her. It's, yeah, it's hard. They can do it. Even the most sensitive of us. But I will say, you know, the other way to configure it is like, you know, Like if you're catastrophizing and you're like, oh, God, like, you know, my, my teen child is going on their first co-ed ski trip or something and, like, everything about that is scary. Co-ed and skiing and, like, snow and, you know, ice. Sports in general, why would we do them?

I don't get it. Cars. There's going to be a car that has to get you there and, like, totally. Like, they're going to eat solid foods. Not everything is liquid. What if something gets lodged, you know, a million things. But bears, whatever. But it's like, you can take this thing that's like, please make nothing happen.

please me, nothing happened. And you can weirdly turn it inside out. And it expands into infinity with this one phrase where you're just like, I really wish everyone well. Like, I really hope everybody is okay. I really, really wish everyone well. I know it's like so hard to do, especially with the people that you don't, that you're like, you're ruining our world. You're ruining the environment. You're bad. You're bad. You're hurting people. But you can imagine your well wishes as like a far off umbrella over the sky, like in the sky directly over them rather than your arms around them. Like you can just, you can put it there in outer space should they ever reach for it. It feels better for me that way. That's beautiful. You know what I mean? Then to just be like,

bad, bad, bad, danger, danger. It's just it all, you hold it all under the water in the dark. Wow. Do you know what I mean? Or am I just like have ADHD and this is like I'm in a cult of one? No, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, maybe. I'll listen, too. I mean, I have ADHD, but I'm not in a cult.

No, I think that's beautiful. After the break, we return for the final round with Jenny Slate. It can also make me be like a terminal optimist in the worst way, like almost a fool. Right after this. Welcome back to Wildcard. Okay, we are not done. Good. Thank God.

This is round three. It's about beliefs. And this is our final round. So pick a card one through three. One again. Like the ones. Oh, I'm so glad this one came up. Is there anything in your life that has felt predestined?

I'm not sure. I don't really connect to the concept of destiny. I mean, and because I met my husband, through, like he really, I mean, I met him through friends, he was really a random person. Sometimes I get scared and I say to him like, what if we hadn't met each other? What are the chances? And he always goes 100%. And I like that.

And I don't know about the like soulmate thing, but I know, and it sounds so cheesy. But I do feel like I'm like, oh, he is my spiritual match. And I guess I believe in a spiritual eventuality, which you could. could call destiny, but that it doesn't, it's like a point. It's like a point on the globe, let's say. Like, it's like a point in your, in your life cycle, a fixed point, but it doesn't mean that you'll get there. Like, you still have to do, you have to still do things to get there. It's, it's an option. It's not the option, but it's probably the, it's the best one that you could get to, but it doesn't mean you'll get there. But I guess, no, I've never felt that anything was predestined. And I've just felt as if every now and then it feels like there's kind of a meteor shower and, like, good fortune falls into my life like that.

But that doesn't feel like, it just feels like it's random. Yeah. But have you always been good about appreciating the meteor shower? Does that come later in life for you? I think I actually have been. And I think that's because my mother, who I love dearly, will not be surprised to hear me say that I think sometimes her vernacular can be rather negative. if you ask her to tell a story, it often sounds like as if it were cloudy in the sky. Like it's just like with this sort of tinge of dread and negativity.

And it's like it's kind of drama. It's drama. But I think like my response to that has been to be like, no, no, sunshine, no. And it can also make me be like a terminal optimist in the worst way, like almost a fool. But I think I've always. truly been keeping that kind of look out. It's not a Pollyanna-ish thing. It's looking for light in the dark.

That's what it is. Jenny Slate, you get an A-plus on this game. You win! I love getting good grades, honestly. I know. I could see that about you. I hated school, but I love grades. I promised you a prize. What is it?

So the prize is a trip in our memory time machine. Cool. To revisit a moment from your life, a moment you would not change anything about. You just would like, you just want to hang out there a little more. Oh, I'll tell you the first thing in my head is my grandmother's really ugly couch in Quincy, Massachusetts. And she had these side tables, you know, one that nestles under the other. And she would have those paper towels that are so soft and thick, you know, like, not the environmentally good ones that we use now. The other ones.

That are like, these are paper, never forget. But, like, the ones that are like, this is basically a washcloth. My grandmother, Rochelle, being at her house in Quincy, Massachusetts, and she would make us a sandwich of, and again, this doesn't age well. It was the 80s. Wonderbread and margarine. You do not need teeth to eat it. And she would put each the side tables in front of us. And we would watch Nickelodeon.

And we didn't have cable at our house. And it just was like, it just was, it was just so sad. Honestly, I missed my grandmother so much. But sorry. Yeah, but just deeply peaceful and like the first feeling of unconditional love is from my grandmother Rochelle. She was so weird and strange and really, really traumatized by the Holocaust. And she never let any of that spike us, you know, like we were aware that she was deep inside.

of something. My sisters, and I think it's like, oh, Nana is, she goes into something. She's not really like other adults. She's trustworthy. She'll drive the car. She can really, gave really great baths, you know, really good food. But she's living in two different places and she surfaces to be with us. And I just remember sitting there with her in all her complexity and having this soft sandwich that we would never be allowed to have at home, no crusts.

you know, watching Nickelodeon people get like the gloop on them, like the slime and just being like I, I mean, I wouldn't have said this as a kid, but like I fucking love this. Like I want this forever. I cannot believe that I don't have that anymore. And I just love it. I just love it. It feels so good to think about it. It feels good to have been able to visit that with you.

That's such a lovely memory. That's a beautiful memory. Jenny Slate, actress, writer, comedian, accomplished human being. Her most recent special is called Seasons Professional. It's streaming now on Prime Video, and it is so worth your time. And this has been the best time. Jenny Slate, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.

So that's it for today's episode. But if you want it a little bit more, we've got it. We're going to be doing regular bonus episodes where we will go behind the scenes and tell you more about the making of Wild Card. And we're also going to be asking a few more questions with our guests. But these things are going to be just for our Wild Card Plus supporters. There's an incentive for you. Wildcard Plus is a way to support our work here in public radio. And you get perks like sponsor-free listening and bonus episodes.

So please check it out. I think you're going to dig it. You can go to plus. npr.org slash Wildcard. Today's episode was produced by Lee Hale and edited by Dave Blanchard with help from Lauren Gonzalez

and Brent Bock. Wildcard's executive producer is Beth Donovan. It was fact-checked by Sarah Knight, mastering by Gilly Moon. Our theme music is by Romteen, Arablewey. And in case you want to reach out to us,

our email is Wildcard at npr.org. We'd love to hear what you think of the show. We're going to shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. See you then.