Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Julio Torres

Episode Date: March 26, 2026

In his stand-up, films and TV shows, Julio Torres considers the beauty and absurdity of the structures that make up the world around him, and tries to make sense of them. In his latest HBO special, "Color Theories," he explores the interior lives of colors. He spoke with Rachel about how his existential dread has changed over time and his excitement for the outfits he’ll wear in his old age. To listen sponsor-free and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcard See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Have you ever experienced a divine power? No. Can you give me an example? Because you asked very casually, like, have you ever had, like, a cherry Coke? I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wild Card. The show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life. Questions pulled from a deck of cards.

They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one back on me. My guest this week is Julio Torres. I'd be terrible in trying to work up a corporation or something. It's like, why do you want to move up to this position? Oh, I don't necessarily. The joy I'm seeking is not a limited resource. Until I encountered the work of Julio Torres, I had never imagined the interior life of a Ferreiro Rochere chocolate.

Or how navy blue captures the feeling of having to create an account. But now that Julio has asked me to imagine, these things, I cannot stop seeing them. His art defies definition. Whether in movies like Problemista or TV shows like Fantasmas, Julio Torres invites his audiences into a world of his own making, and it is an absurd and beautiful place to be. His new HBO stand-up special is called Color Theory's, and I am so very happy to welcome Julio Torres to Wildcard. Hi. Hi. I'm so happy to meet you. Thank you for having me. First round is memories. These are the first cards, Julio.

Yes. You pick one, two, or three. I will pick one. What? Okay, what was a moment when you felt proud of yourself as a kid? I designed a dress. Okay, so context, context. My mother was a fashion designer, and she, it was a lot of, like,

chic little power suits, a lot of mini skirts, a very, like, geometric. It was the 80s? It was, we're coming out of the 80s, early 90s, very like early 90s city lady. Yes. Clothes. Okay. I can see it. And I was like, I'm going to design a dress for you to sell.

And it was, I was so proud of myself. I was so, so proud of myself. It looked like an absolutely heinous, green, like, princess dress. Like a huge, huge princess dress. Just big skirt, small, tight bodice? A tight bodice, of course. So tight. Giant skirt.

giant ruffles up on ruffles up on ruffles of green, different shades of green. Oh, I love it. And I kept following up on when production would begin. Yes. When these were going to drop. Yes. And it never came.

It didn't. Yeah. But did she, did she welcome the suggestion? Was she also proud of you? I think it was... My mother is very... She's very encouraging, but she's very honest. Mm.

So she was like... So what was the feedback? She was like, hmm. Like, hmm, and an nod. But I love it because I am, I am viewing into that hmm that she was like... Too many ruffles. Like, maybe it was plausible.

Like, in the hmm, could be some kind of plausibility. I think maybe a microsephalty. I microsecond of it, like, try to find a solution. And then it was just like, no. It's just like, no. Thank you so much. Yeah. But you were proud of yourself.

I was so proud of myself. So proud of myself. Three new cards. One, two, or three? Three. What's an ordinary place that feels extraordinary to you because of what happened there? Oh, that's a beautiful question. Hmm.

Thanks. It's an ordinary place. It feels extraordinary to me. What if I said like the Berlin Wall? Okay. No, I mean. If you were there. Yeah.

For some reason, this place feels important to me. I can just feel. I don't know what happened. There's an energy. There's just an energy about it. The Spinks. The Great Wall of China. I can also pick a different one from that round.

Do you want me to do that? Yeah, and you know what's going to happen? I bet that's going to stir an answer for the first one. Okay. Yeah. Were you obsessed with a particular cosmic question as a kid? Haunted by the infinity of space. Okay.

Certainly haunted. It would keep me up at night. Really? Oh, yeah. I was an insomniac as a kid, and that was one of the ones that was absolutely haunting to me. Like, how can something not end? Yes. Oh, I still get shivers. Really?

You know what I'm realizing? It definitely, I do have, experts have said that I do have OCD. And I think that this is. is definitely that, like, latching onto a thought, latching onto, like, and not being able to let go of it. Yeah. But the existential questions that haunt me the most are the ones that feel just within reach.

Like, now I'm no longer haunted by the universe being infinite. I accept it. Yeah. Reluctantly, begrudgingly. now it's it's sort of like these bigger problems that I'm like, oh, if we put our heads together, we can solve this. So then how does that manifest in your actual life right now? Like you're living this amazing, beautiful, big, creative life. And I hear you saying it's not enough that you actually want to make different kind of change or a different kind of impact in the world.

Am I interpreting that right? Well, yeah. I mean, you know, it's like, oh, I get to make, I'm so. privilege that I get to make movies and one movie so far, but hopefully more. And just

get to perform and get to, you know, release a special and whatever. And I but then I look at the road that brought me here and I ask myself

in the year 2020 would someone in my position be able to take that road that was already pretty difficult? And the answer is I'm not sure. And that's devastating. Yeah. Can you say more about what that means? I mean, because... Well, that means like specifically coming here as a student with a student visa.

From El Salvador. From El Salvador, yes, yes. And, you know, it's almost... like the first enemy on the list with this new administration students, international students, specifically. International students that were decided to have less agency and the freedom of speech being more limited if you're an international student. And also just a regulate.

how many people get to come here as international students, from which countries do they get to come here as international students? But those already narrow corridors feel like they're getting narrower, or narrower, narrower. The barriers for entry are just higher and higher. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But these are the questions that keep me up. And the ones that I'm like, who do I text?

There must be someone. Yeah. Who can I talk to? Okay, this is the last one in this round. two or three. Two. No, one. Ooh, interesting.

One. When's it time you realized you were on the right path? I think when I started doing a comedy open mics and people actually laughed. Yeah. When people were laughing at things that I also thought were funny. I think that's when I felt like, oh, okay. I don't know where this path will lead. but I will keep going.

It feels like I'm walking in the dark, but the terrain feels comfortable enough. Clearly someone, or enough people laughed, that you were like, I will now proceed to the next open mic. Yeah, yeah. And by enough people, I mean like the five people in the audience. The five other comedians waiting for their turn to go up. Let's talk about your new special on HBO color theories. I love this, Julio. I mean, I'll tell you why for a few different reasons. But let's set the scene of what this is. You imagine the lives of colors, the interior lives, how they interact with each other, what their motivations are, and how you experience them. And this is something that you do not just,

with colors, but it's popped up in other things you've done. You think about the backstories of letters and numbers, and it is fantastic. I loved it so much. I think of it as a class. Yeah. Okay. A class about my unproven theories on color. It's a it's a, a structured, on scientific findings. Yes. And can you just give a couple of examples? Purple to me in the special seems like the color with which you feel the most symbiosis. Yes, I love it.

Symbiosis. Yes, yeah. Yeah, is that fair? Yes, because purple, of course, is the combination of blue and red. blue being order and logic in its purest form, and red being rage and passion. And I think that we humans are fiery passionate beings stuck in a blue grid, which is rules, law, society, etc. But purple dares combine both of them. and it's it's uh it's very seductive because of it right so the reason that i so connect with

this special is that as a very young child i think it's because i i was afraid of numbers and still have kind of a fear of numbers which i never really thought of until you sort of brought this up in your special but i made um relationships i made little back stories little personalities I only went to 10. I didn't, because it was just overwhelming after that. And again, I was really young. And is 10, is 10, was that two personalities coexisting? One and zero, or was one whole character?

Zero didn't exist in this for me. Okay. It was one and 10, 10. And that, I mean, I wasn't very sophisticated. It was just a child. So one is the baby. Ten is the king. King.

Yeah, king. Definitely patriarchal. Definitely patriarchal. Five was the diplomat, obviously. Six was insecure, bordering on obsequiousness. Seven was the troublemaker. Six was always jealous of seven. Seven was the troublemaker and was really emotionally manipulative of all the other numbers.

Seven, seven was. Seven. But seven had power. Anyway, I could go on. But the point is... Seven was like... So with seven like a... Like a toxic vice president?

Like a toxic upper management? Totally. But had more... Actually, seven had more power. Toxic upper management who was going to slay the CEO, had a full-on plan to slay the CEO and assume power. What about eight? Is eight just like establishment has been...

been there for years. Yes. It's totally establishment. I mean, round. Doesn't have to do anything. Nope. He shows up. He's well fed. Yeah, well fed shows up. Doesn't have to move a finger.

It's not threatened by anything. So therefore gets along with everyone. It's like a tenured professor. Yes. It's just like showing up. Yes. Just showing up. Yeah. Contract gets renewed. Didn't even think about it.

Right, right. And nine is so close. The drama was seven is not. on his radar because he doesn't need to care. No, he doesn't need to care. He doesn't need to care. He almost like speaks in parable. And it's like, you don't even know what's happening in your own office.

So how dare you give me advice? That's right. Yeah. And honestly, I can't remember where nine is in the scheme. I think by that logic, nine would be... When you go from there? Nine would be, I think, entrusted with a lot of responsibility. but not get the glory of 10.

Totally. Yeah. That's right. Nine is competent. Nine is running the show. Nine is actually running the show. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Nine is a woman. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Nine is a woman. So needless to say, when I watched this show, it took all of like 45 seconds for me to be like, I'm seen.

Yes. I get it. I'm so into this world. I am there. That is where I want to live. I think about this stuff all the time. And, and yeah, I didn't know what that was when I was young. I really did. It was maybe avoidance because I really did have a hard time with thinking about numbers the way I was supposed to academically. Yes. Yes. I'm bad at math. I'm really bad at math. I'm terrible at math. I still have nightmares, actually. It's a recurring nightmare that I'm. I have, that grades are coming out soon. And I haven't been to math class for many days. Oh, yeah. And that'll be reflected. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

I literally have that dream. Nightimir. Like, literal night night. I haven't dropped it. It's always like an advanced calculus class with God knows. I don't know how I even got into the first place. I would stare at the board in class and be like, I have no idea what any of this is. But I can tell you about their inner motivations.

Yes. And like their jealousies and their love affairs, all these numbers on the board. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was with you. So do people get it like instantly? Like do your audiences trust you enough that they're just like, we are along for this ride?

I think so. I think so. Yeah. You don't have to have developed a childhood fascination with making up backstories to digits. But I think we all do is the thing. Yeah. I think that people tap into that, tap into those memories.

Yeah. That's what playing is, is coming up with, is, is, is, bestowing lives and emotions to, to things that supposedly don't have them. Round two, insights. One, two or three. Three. What are you secretly obsessed with? I am obsessed with watching videos of actors as characters in Disney parks and through the interactions they have with the person taking the video, the tourist, the adult tourist.

Right. Trying to gauge what the rules are for being a professional. former in Disney parks. What can they do? What can't they do? What are their limitations? What have they been instructed to do? Interesting.

So you mean like the woman playing Moana walking around in the Disney park? Yes. And the adult who's taking the picture. Filming her. Asking her like being like, Moana, how is your day? What are you doing?

And then and then based on Moana's answers, having to like reverse engineer like what was the training like the training to be like trying to see behind the mask right do they have them all memorized is there a script so they definitely this is what's interesting their answers most more frequently reflect the character that they're playing in a very obvious way you stop if you stop jasmine from aladdin yeah she'll say like it's just another gorgeous day in Agrava. Or like, I'm on the way to the palace.

Have you seen Aladdin anywhere? But here's what's interesting is, are you catching Jasmine mid the story that we all know? Are you catching her before or are you catching her after? Oh, where in time? Where in time? When we encounter her. Or is she go? Or is she going through a sort of like Amy Adams in arrival, time is cyclical.

She knows what will happen with the lamp. She knows Jafar will put her in an hourglass. But that hasn't happened yet. She has awareness, you think? I, yes, yeah. She has awareness. She knows where things are going. Because she's trapped in this liminal space of memory.

At Disneyland? At Disneyland. Yeah. Well, that is really specific. And then does it make you want to go to Disneyland and have your own conversations? Or no? No, it makes me want to observe. That particular need has been satisfied.

Yeah, I just want to be, I just want to observe. I don't want to interact. No. I think that sounds reasonable. One, two, or three. One. Has competition done more to help you or hurt you? Mm. Neutral, neither.

Really? Yeah, I don't think so. Don't think about it. I've never been a competitive person. Is that why you had to leave SNL? Because I feel like as a writer on SNL, that's cutthroat. That is a very, yes, the structure of it is very competitive. But I did not, I didn't, but I feel like being competitive implies seeing others as,

as possibly obtaining something that you want. Yeah. But I feel like no one else has what I want. I don't think the joy I'm seeking is a limited resource. I'd be terrible in the, like, trying to work up of a corporation or something. It's like, why do you want to move up to this position? Oh, I don't necessarily. The joy I'm seeking is not a limited resource.

Do you feel competitive? Yeah. You do? Okay. I wish I didn't. I wish I didn't. But I've always been, I've always had like a competitive thing. It's not an attractive quality.

It's genuine. I don't think it's an attractive quality in people. I think a lot of people think it is. The people I am drawn to are not competitive people. So I guess for me, this is a little self-loathing. I recognize it. It's a, it has been a positive. animating force for me, but then it gets, then it can get sticky. You got to like know

where to draw the boundary of it. So it's a positive animating force and not something toxic. Because you want, you don't, you want your friends and colleagues to succeed and it doesn't have to be, if I don't get it, then they can't, then I don't want them to have it. They get a good thing, you know, that's a miserable, miserable way to live. That is a miserable way to live, yes. Yeah. So I love the idea of seeking a joy that nobody possesses so you don't have to claw it out away from anyone because you're responsible for it.

Yeah. Well, my joy has never been a job, an award, something that is just like. Finite. Finite, yeah. What is it? I think getting to live a life where I get to do the things that are important to me and that bring me joy and it's a holistic, the life I want to live kind of thing. Not like the, I never got even like blank to college. I'm like, that's insane that you have to apply to go to school.

That's insane. That is insane. You have to prove that you're good enough to be a customer? That is insane. You apply. You apply to teach me. It really is true. We're giving them money.

I know. Yes. You're ruining the rest of your life financially. No. When someone makes me feel like I have to prove something, to them, I just walk away. Really? I'm like, seek help.

But that means you don't suffer from like a lot of insecurity. I actually don't think I'm a very insecure person. Mm-hmm. Yeah. My troubles are elsewhere. We'll leave that there. Okay, one, two, or three. One.

What's a disappointing experience that now feels like a blessing? A disappointing experience but now feels like a blessing. You know, I... Uh... I think that the doing comedy is full of disappointing experiences that you turned into blessings, right?

There's a lot of rejection built into the whole career choice. Also, you turn things that, you know, and living a different life would just be like an annoying thing that happened, you turn it into something we're laughing about. Material. Material. Yeah. So, like, not being let into Costa Rica because my password was too wrinkly, for example.

Did that really happen? Yes, it really happened. That is wild. Yeah. This is a bit in your show that is apparently autobiographical. So, you know, it's like it, it, uh, You know, when I was walked over on the plane right back. I don't understand.

You got there. You presented your passport. The guy was like, nope. Too many wrinkles. Should have ironed this bad boy. And then they just put you back on the plane, the next plane back? And then they just walk you to the next plane back. Yes.

Uh-huh. As your friends are on the other side. When it's finally pressed this passport. Like, literally that, yes. Plus, like, a forum or something. something that you have to feel out, like saying that you were rejected. And now it's a very nice story in your stand-up special. Yeah.

This is the last round. Okay. One, two, or three. Three. Have you ever experienced a divine power? No. Can you give me an example? I have a follow-up question.

Because you asked very casually, like, have you ever had, like, a cherry Coke? I feel like. like it's the same. You feel like it's the same? Okay. Was your family religious? I mean, you're from El Salvador. Sorry, big generalization coming here. No, no, very accurate. Lots and lots of Catholics. Accurate, accurate, accurate. Well, okay, my, my extended family is quite Catholic and my upbringing was, I would, I would say, like, Catholic like adjacent. My mother believes in many things. She's a very, a very complex relationship with divinity and the supernatural.

But Catholicism is definitely important to her. But, but I was, I was just always allowed to believe in whatever I wanted to believe in. Yeah. And that is sort of where I landed. I mean, your art leads me to conclude, perhaps wrongly, that you are a person who would have some kind of expansive relationship with ideas that might be mystical or supernatural. I'm curious about all those things. But can I say that I have experienced a divine power?

Was that the question? Yeah. That feels like, what? Fair enough. Yeah. I'll get you a cherry Coke next time we're together. I'm open-minded, but the question did trigger a what? One, two, or three?

Three. Well, I don't know if this one's going to go anywhere either, but let's ask it. Okay. What's a belief you chose to let go of? I can't think of any belief that I've let go of. Let's skip it. Okay, let's skip it. Is that something allowed, skipping it?

Yeah. Yeah, skip it. Oh, I like how you said it with conviction. Skip it. Skip it. Yeah. Is there anything in your life that has felt predestined? How do you feel about fate and predestinedness?

I don't believe in it, but my mother does. And she tells the story of some fortune teller telling her. her that, no, telling my grandmother that one of her grandkids would succeed in New York. And that my mother overheard this as she was pregnant with me. But I think there's an argument to be made that, you know, obviously I was very, how much of it, how much of that seeped into my, how much of that myth sipped into my consciousness and therefore, um, routed my, um, and my instincts and my desires. So I don't know. I don't know.

Inconclusive data. Indeed. Yes. But I think mythologies are fun. I was going to say fun. But I also... Well, they are fun. They are fun.

They are fun. Yeah. I think they can also be meaningful. Yeah. But... Are you an astrology person? Not like, do you do it professionally, but like... But do you engage...

I don't know. I, I, I, I, maybe I am. I don't know. I'm in a new phase of my life. Maybe I'm installed. I never used to be an astrology person. What sign are you? I'm, I'm an Aquarius on the cusp of Pisces. I'm an Aquarius as well. You are? Yeah. I mean, I don't really know what that means. I took an aneagram test. A what? You know what that is? Oh, you should take that. That's the, like, personality type one? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot what I was. I wish I could forget what I was.

What are you? Do you know what one of the people was? One of the people listed, like other people who have your. Oh, no. Oh, no. Don Draper, the fictional character from Madman. The sort of like womanizing, cold, cheating. Ambitious.

Not even a real person. They couldn't refer to an actual human who had these abominable qualities. Right. So they said that I embodied the qualities of this nefarious, horrible, immorrient. immoral fictional TV character. Yeah. Sharp dresser. Anyway, I don't know where I am with astrology, but I'm definitely at a time in my life where I'm super open.

I am open to all the things and all the inputs. And why not? Why not? That's what I have to say. Are you into astrology? I like it. I think it's fun. You too.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know anything about being an aquarium? Yes. we are referred to as the alien sign. That's very cool.

Yes. There's a humanitarian streak to it. Something someone told me once that I really liked. Not leaders, but overseers. That's like 10 in my little childhood numbers personality. Kind of, yeah. Because the king is like sort of ineffectual. Yeah, yeah, sort of like looking at everything from above.

Yes. Looking at everything from Oprah's on Aquarius. I know. She's also a three, which is for Andy Agrav. Got it. Yes, Oprah. Yeah. Okay.

Well, last one. One, two, or three. One. What do you look forward to when you're older? Oh. Um, the outfits. The outfits. The outfits.

Old man outfits? Old man outfits. When I, if I lose my hair, I decided I'm going to have a very shiny chrome helmet that I wear. Cains, beautiful canes. Beautiful Cains. Gorgeous wheelchair. Yes. Maybe like.

And also just like having no ego about getting. Help. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, open that for me. Yeah, take me there. We end the show the same way every time with the trip at our memory time machine. In the memory time machine, you revisit one moment from your past.

It's not a moment you want to change anything about. It's just a moment you'd like to linger in a little longer. Which moment do you choose? I have only a very stupid answer comes to mind. Give it to me. It's... It just felt so consequential at the time. This morning, I ordered wrong.

I ordered my breakfast wrong. I forgot a crucial ingredient. And it just, I was in a rush. And it was my fault. And I do have a great regret about it. But it's not regret. It's a moment you want to linger in. You don't want to linger in the mistake.

No, but I want to linger in. I want to linger in taking my time in checking all the little boxes in the app. And making sure that the vegan egg is part of the sandwich. You didn't order the vegan egg. No. You wanted to. Yeah. I got just an avocado sandwich.

What am I going to do with that? I'm still hungry. I'm like sitting here hungry. I didn't plan for that. stake. Well, you should get a new battery in your memory time machine because it didn't go back very far, but we're going to let it slide. Yeah, it did not go back very far, did it? I could have gone anywhere. It needs a tune-up. It needs a tune-up. It needs an oil change. Yeah, what a dumb way to end this. Oh, no. We can keep it. That's what came to the fore. That's what came to the foreground.

That's what came to the foreground. Julio Torres, his new special on HBO is called Color Theory's. It is a wonderful way to spend some time. Thank you so much for doing this, Julio. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Hey there. If you like this episode, go check out my conversation with Rami Yusuf.

Like Julio, as both a stand-up comedian and a showrunner, Rami is not afraid to experiment and to break the rules to make art that feels specific and true to himself. You can watch that conversation with Rami, along with this conversation. conversation with Julio Torres or any of our recent episodes on our YouTube channel. Just search for at NPR Wildcard. This episode was produced by Mitra Arthur and Summer Tomad. It was edited by Dave Blanchard and mastered by Jimmy Keely. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolana Sangweni and our theme music is by Ramteen Arablee. You can reach out to us at wildcard at npr.org and we're going to shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. Talk to you then.