Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Ke Huy Quan is still proving he's good enough

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Ke Huy Quan was born in Vietnam, but his family fled the country and eventually settled in the U.S. as refugees. Not long after arriving, Quan was cast in "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" and "The Goonies." He then struggled for years until "Everything Everywhere All at Once" came along. Quan talks to Rachel about his new action film, "Love Hurts," self doubt and love at first sight. To listen sponsor-free, access bonus episodes and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcard See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

What is something you still feel you need to prove to the people you meet? Oh. I always feel like I'm not good enough. You know, I spent so many years auditioning for stuff, trying to prove to filmmakers that I'm perfect for this role. But the internal narrative is slowly changing. I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation.

Each week, my guest answers questions about their lives. life, pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one or flip one back on me. My guest this week is Ki Hui Kuan. Now that I have the success, I worry, honestly, I worry that it will go away. I worried that it would be, oh, this is just a one-time thing. I've been down this road before. There's a moment in Ki Hui Kuan's new movie Love Hurts, where his character, the assassin-turned

real estate agent named Marvin, Marvin tells his assistant to find something she'd loves, and then go after it. I couldn't help but see real parts of Key's life reflected in this idea. Here's this guy who came to America as a refugee from the Vietnam War. He lucked into an audition in Los Angeles at 13 years old and got super famous as Harrison Ford's young sidekick in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Right after that, he played Dada in Goonies, the kid with all the gadgets. These were huge movies with a massive cultural footprint even today.

But he stopped getting roles after that. No one would have blamed him if he had just quit Hollywood altogether. But Ki had found the thing that he loved, and he didn't let the fact that one path closed stop him from getting the life he wanted, including an Oscar for his role in everything, everywhere, all at once. I am so very excited to welcome Ki Hui Kwan to Wildcard. Wow, Rachel, that's a great bio. I'm just, your story is so incredible. I mean, I know it's out there a lot because you won the Oscar and you've been in the culture in a big way since then, but it still just bears repeating that you just beat a whole lot of odds to get where you are.

And I'm just so thrilled to have you. Yeah, it's pretty incredible. It's pretty incredible. Yeah. Thank you. Well, we're going to get a chance to talk about your new movie in a few minutes. But I'm just going to get right into our game if you're up for it. Yes.

And I know you have some really tough questions in that deck. They're not tough, Keith. They're just require a little thought. Yeah, they require a little thought. It's the good stuff. Yes, let's go for it. It's the good stuff. I'm actually looking forward to it.

Okay, I think it's fun. It's fun. So the first round is it about your memories. You ready to go? Okay. Let's do it. Yes. First three cards. One, two, or three.

I'll pick the first one. The first one, number one. Yes. What activity gave you a sense of freedom as a child? Ooh. Wow, taking me back to my childhood. I love this. Hide and seek.

I love playing hiding seek when I was, you know, when I, when we came to the United States as immigrants, my parents, you know, pretty much gave up everything they had to get the entire family here. So when we were living in Los Angeles, we didn't have. money to buy toys. So, and we didn't have much friends, you know, it took its little while to acclimate to this new life. Yeah. And my family was my friends.

My neighbor were my friends. And we would just run around and I would always, you know, find a spot that nobody can find me. And while I'm hiding in that spot, it felt like, yeah, it felt like I can do anything. I can be anywhere. You had a lot of siblings. Right? I have a lot, yeah, eight siblings, nine of us total.

But the age gap between the oldest and the youngest is really big. Yeah. So my friends were my little sister and my little brother. What about that experience, the hiding, felt free to you? Or just maybe it was the sense of play. I think, you know, sometimes, I don't know, it's weird. Like when I was a kid, A lot of times I'm just pensive.

You know, I spend a lot of time sitting at the sofa and just looking out the window and daydreaming. Dreaming of, you know, really, you know, anything and everything. I don't know why. I was always like that when I was a kid. So me finding a spot and hiding and being alone, being by myself. And a lot of times in the darkness, too. It's weird. This is a very interesting conversation because I feel like I'm learning a lot about myself, about my childhood.

We're only a couple minutes in. Yeah, I know. I know. This is going great, Rachel. Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know if I have an answer for that. But the dark was somehow comforting, too. Yeah, being alone.

Yeah. Yes. Yes. Okay. new cards. One, two, or three. We'll go with a second one. Number two. What's something your parents taught you to love? Love myself. They were great parents. My mom is still here. My mom always says, believe in yourself. You are your worst enemy if you don't believe in yourself. That's what was taught growing up. They really made us believe that the impossible was possible, especially given,

you know, our background, you know, how we started, how we came here. And it's pretty remarkable. I mean, I look at my entire family, all my siblings are very successful in business. And they all started with nothing. We all came here with nothing. In fact, my parents were heavily in debt. when we came here. So me getting this incredible opportunity to be an actor at 12 years old. And what my first movie has done for me

when it came out, you know, I made some money. This was the Indiana Jones? Yeah, this was Temple of Doom. And, you know, the money that I made, I was able to help, you know, pay back some of the debts my parents owed. That they, you know,

the money that they borrowed to get all of it. out here because getting on that boat, it cost us like a lot of money. You know, we paid in gold sheets. That's how we got on the boat in Vietnam and then escaped to Hong Kong and spent a year in the refugee camp there. And then luckily, you know, the American government at that time was very generous and, you know, they accepted us.

I mean, your parents were just incredible. It takes such fortitude and strength. encouraged on the part of your parents and then to be able to instill that in you, they had to have believed it, that you love yourself, you can achieve anything because that was true for them. They saw this as their goal and they made it happen. Yeah, and we were very lucky. You know, had they not believe in that themselves, there was no way that all of us would be able to come here.

You know, all of us are alive and well. I mean, you know, we know a lot of families that were not so lucky. making that journey. A lot of people died. So to see how we got here that entire journey and also how much my entire family has accomplished, it's pretty remarkable. Okay. Thank you for that. I appreciate it.

Three new cards. Okay. One, two, or three. I'll go with the third one. The third one. What's an early memory of? appreciating beauty. Early is a memory of appreciating beauty.

Okay, I'm going to take one of those. Oh. I'm going to flip it on you first. You're flipping it. Okay. I want to hear your answer. I have thought about what my answer would be to this. I just remember I was really young.

It was probably like five or six. And my mom had gotten like a parking ticket or a speeding ticket or something. And I remember being on the floor of my bedroom and looking up at her and she had gotten dressed to go to traffic court. And she was wearing this brown sort of like silk fabric skirt with little black pattern on it, little maybe sort of polka dots and a matching shirt. And her hair, she had this black hair. And it was all. out and beautiful and she was wearing these wedge shoes. And I remember at a very young age just looking at her and thinking that she was the most beautiful, it makes me a little bit emotional

to think about because she's been gone a long time. But I remember looking at her and thinking that she was so beautiful, that my mom was such a beautiful person. So I have a lot of memories of appreciating beauty in nature and But that is the memory that comes to me when I think about an early moment of seeing something beautiful or recognizing what beauty is. That is a great answer, Rachel. I don't know if I have an answer as good as that. It's not a competition, I promise. I know, I know.

Earliest memory of beauty. It doesn't have to be the earliest, just an early memory, of seeing something beautiful appreciating it. I would have to say my wife. I met her when she was 22 years old. We were in Shanghai, China at that time. And I remember I just got off the plane. and I got to the office.

I walked in. Immediately, my eyes went straight to her. She had long hair at that time, and she was beautiful. It was almost like love at first sight. Really? And again, and the minute I saw her, I just wanted to get to know her. I just wanted to talk to her. And sure enough,

That night, you know, the entire, everybody from the office had dinner. We were sitting next to each other. And all of a sudden, it seems like everybody else disappeared. It was just like, it was just me and her. It was very cinematic kind of like, you know, one of those scenes where, yeah. It all goes black. Like, yeah, the camera pans around, and all of a sudden, everybody's gone. It's just, it's just me and her.

And we ended up talking nonstop. We never ran out of things to say to each other. Even to this day, 22 years later, you know, whether we're driving or at night, we would just have endless conversation, endless subjects to talk about. And to me, she was just the most beautiful woman on the planet. That is lovely. Yeah. Okay, so we just did round one. I think it went really well.

How do you feel? It's all right. Okay. I'm going to prove to you that this is a good time. Before we get into round two, let's talk about your movie a little bit. Yes. It's called Love Hurts. It is a very good time.

You are at the top of the call sheet for this one, Key. This is your movie. Can you believe it? I mean, it's so great. Number one on the call sheets? Come on. How does it feel? You've been out this a long time.

You've been in Hollywood. You've been working away for four decades or so. Yeah, four decades. I remember when it was first offered to me. It was during the whole awards season leading up to the Oscar nominations, the script was sent to me, and I read it, and I thought it was incredible. But there was one thing that kept me back was, as much as I love the script, I didn't think it was, I didn't think I was right for it.

I just couldn't see myself as Marvin Gable. I've been conditioned for decades to think that an action star needs to look a certain way. They need to look like Schwarzenegger or Stallone or Jason Statham or, you know, Stephen Seagull, anybody, all those types but me. And of course, then I realized very quickly that they were trying to create a different type of action hero. They were trying to change the status quo. Yeah. And I just love the idea. And it's powerful key, because you had to reframe.

your brain about who could be an action star, then you change for all those people watching what it means to be a hero and a martial arts hero. Like you would do some major butt kicking in this movie. Yes, yes. You know, I studied martial arts, Taekwondo, for many years, I have a black belt. And when I was younger, you know, I was a big fan of the action genre, especially the movies that came out of Hong Kong in the 80s with Jackie Chan, Samuel Hong, and Yuan Bell. I was a big fan of those.

And when I got my black belt, I was so eager to go out and show the world what I can do. But of course, Hollywood was not hiring actors like me to be an action star at that time. And sadly, I thought, you know, I would have to put away those skills forever. But when I went to film school and started walking behind the camera, those skills really came in handy. Because you were like a stunt choreographer, right? an action choreographer. Yeah. And flash forward two decades later, I didn't know that one day I would be offered as a lead in a major studio picture. What an exciting idea it is to make someone like me an action star. I'm so full circle for you to be able to do a role that is akin to something

that Jackie Chan would have done, like movies that you watch when you were growing up. You know, you know what? You know, when I was younger, I really wanted to. wanted to work with him. I really wanted to be in the movie with Jackie Chan and play his younger brother. That never came to pass. And since our trailer came out, so many people, you know, in the comments says, he looks like Jackie Chan and he fights like Jackie Chan. And I think to me that's one of the greatest compliments because, you know, I've been a fan of his for a long time. And he is an incredible martial artist. So, and then, you know, to be able to do Love Hurts, all my dreams.

The dreams that I had when I was younger came true again. It's incredible. Well, congratulations on the film. It's such a fun ride. Okay. We are in round two. Round two. It was like insights.

Okay. We'll start with the middle one. One, two or three. You're going number two. Yeah, two. Oh, okay. How big of a role does fear have in your life? I love these questions.

I'm glad. It takes up, it does take up space in my life. I have fears. And every thing that I do, I always look at it from different angles. And a lot of angles, you know, gives me fear. You know, fear of failure, fear of not, you know, making the best out of your life. I have a lot of fears in my life. But what's incredible is that my wife is the opposite of me.

We are very different people. She has no fear. I have a lot of fear. So we kind of balance each other out. And every time my fear shapes my decision, she's there to say, what if you take that out, would she? Can you do that? Are you capable of removing it from the equation? Yes.

And then the answer becomes very clear. It becomes very clear after that. Once when you take the fear out of the equation, then you'd be surprised of how many things that you're capable of. Do you play that role for her, too? Is it reciprocal in some way? Can you take away her fear when it pops up? You know, it's interesting. I talked about what my parents has instilled in me.

She's kind of the extension of my parents. she truly, truly believes that anything is possible. So she never needs advice from me. You know, she's a very determined person. Let me give an example. We always joke about this. Like if I walk into a store to buy a pair of jeans, it would take me 20, 30 minutes.

I would time out. She goes in there in less than a minute. She knows what she wants, and then she's at the counter ready to pay. She is a woman after my own heart. I cannot stand to belabor the choice of a new pair of jeans, and you are exactly like my husband, who will spend hours and hours debating whether the boot cut or the skinny gene is the better idea. But I'm slowly, I'm slowly, you know, I know what I'm really bad at,

And I'm trying to learn from that. There's a lid for every pot, as they say. Okay. Three more cards. One, two, or three. We will start with the third one. The third one, number three. Let's do that.

Yes. What is something you still feel you need to prove to the people you meet? Oh. What is something that I feel? I feel like I still need to prove. I always feel like I'm not good enough. You know, I spent so many years auditioning for stuff, waiting in the audition room,

trying to prove to filmmakers that I'm perfect for this role. Yeah. And the majority of the time, this is, you know, this is a story of many actors, not just me. You know, I wouldn't get them. And then, of course, when I go watch a movie when it comes out, the role that I auditioned for, I would say, oh, yeah, I understand why I didn't get that role because that actor is great in it. He's so much better than me. Oh, no.

But so I think it stemmed from that. So even to this day, I still feel like I'm never good enough. But again, you know, the internal narrative is slowly changing. Yeah, I would look that little gold statue in your house somewhere. does some work in remedying that false narrative. You know, right after I won the Oscar, the next day, I woke up literally thinking, was that all a dream? And, you know, we woke up and I was staring at my wife, and I asked her, I said,

wait, was yesterday a dream? And she said, no. You want an Oscar. Okay, last one in this round, one, two, or three. Okay. I'll pick the first one. First one. What have you learned to take less seriously?

What have I learned to take less seriously? All right, I'm going to do a flip on you. I want to hear your answer. You can't flip it. You only got to flip once, but I like your perseverance. But you can skip it. You can skip it, and I can pick it to find. What I, what, okay.

I know, see, my mind is just drawing a blank right now, but I know I have a good answer for this. What do I take less seriously? You know, everything I do, I take seriously, everything, whether it's big or small. And sometimes, you know, if I do a bad job, whether it's a bad take on a movie, or if it's just a, you know, a task, a simple task that I do, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I get mad at myself because I'm, you know, in a lot of ways I'm a perfectionist or I strive to be as perfect as I can. And I think over the years I've learned that, you know, imperfection is perfection. Yeah.

Well, human beings were flawed, you know, and it's okay to mess up. It's okay to, yeah, to make mistakes and also to be not good at something. And because when you're not good at something, it gives you an opportunity to learn. And I love learning. Yeah. I love learning. I think I heard it somewhere. I forgot who said it.

The day you stop learning is the day that you are truly old. Yeah. If you want to feel young, you know, you're still very determined to learn. Is that a struggle for you to remind yourself? Like, just chill, key, just chill. Yeah. Like, for example, like, because how hard it is for me to be here. Now that I have the success, you know, I worried, honestly, I worry that it will go away. I worried that it would be, oh, this is just a one-time thing.

I've been down this road before. Right. You know, as a kid. So. You feel like you have to keep your foot on the gas pedal, so to speak. Yeah. Yeah. I get it.

Yes. And into the last round. This is the beliefs round. Okay. So beliefs, one, two, or three. I'm going to start with the third one. This one over here. Yeah.

Do you think there's order in the universe or is it all chaos? I have to believe in order. There is order in the universe. You know, I'm a Buddhist. And Buddhism is all about, you know, maintain a balance. You know, you have good, you have bad, you have up and you have down, everything. It's balanced. out. I do believe there's order. There's got to be, I have to believe in that. Have you seen

that play out in your life? Are you able to examine it, look back and say there's a pattern to these things. There is order. I don't know if there's a, I don't know if there's a, I would say, a pattern, but what I do believe is that everything happens for a reason. You do. Yeah, Especially looking at my own life story, where it started, you know, the entire journey. I learned so much along the way. And somehow I ended up where I really wanted to be. But then if you told me four years ago, I would not. I would not believe it.

But when the opportunity of everything everywhere all I once came to me, I don't think I could have played that role, play the multiple versions of that role. In that movie, had I not had that journey. I see that. That feels like order. Okay.

One, two, or three. I'll pick the second one. The second one. Do you think there's any part of us that will live on after we die? Yes. Through your loved one's memories of us. You know, when I always say, you know, when you talk about death and all of that, you know, when you die, it's the people that love you that are really sad. And they keep you alive through their memory.

That's what I think. Have you, your mom's still around? Your dad died? How long are? My mom's, my mom, my mom is still here. She's, uh, my dad passed away 20, uh, 24 years ago. Um, and my mom, you know, uh, she's, she's quite a woman. Uh, she's 87 years old.

Uh, and, and she's still as active as ever. She loves going out. She loves the slot machines. She does? Yeah. She loves the slab machines. And she still believe that she's going to hit the jackpot one day. I love that.

See, that's where you get your optimism from, is your mom. Yeah, for sure. Okay. We end the show the same way every time. Okay. With a trip in our memory time machine. Okay? So here we are in the memory time machine.

You get to go back to one moment from your past. It is not a moment that you would change anything about. It's just a moment you would like to linger in a little longer. What moment do you choose? The year is 1993. I've spoken about this, so I can get through this without getting emotional. But it's when I auditioned for a role, a really tiny role, that has no name. There's only two lines.

And I was competing with 30 other Asian actors. And I was by the phone for an entire week waiting for my agent to call. You know, it didn't ring. So I had to call my agent to find out whether I got that part. And when I didn't, I was devastated. I was despondent. And the reason why I want to revisit that moment is because I don't ever want to forget and take things for granted

given everything that I get to enjoy now. It's very easy if you don't balance it out, you know, your high points in life with your low points in life, it's very easy to forget who you are. It's very easy to take things for granted. It's very easy to have a big head, but never forget where you came from. Because it humbles you.

It makes you have empathy for other people who are going through the same thing that you went through. So, yeah, that would be, you know, that would be one moment that I would visit and hopefully tell my younger self, Key, don't worry, keep, don't worry, everything's going to be okay. But you just have to wait 30 years, that's all. Yeah. And then I would say my youngest, I would say, Get the F out of here.

Louis Kwan's new movie is Love Hurts. Keith, thank you, thank you. It's been so much fun. Thank you for having me. If you like this conversation, go back and check out my episode with Gail Garcia Bernal. He also got started in show business at a really young age, and he's got a similar appreciation for all of this.

success he's had. If you want more from Ki Hui Kwan on Wild Card Plus this week, he shares something intangible he hopes to pass on. If there's one thing that we can pass around, it would be kindness and empathy. I think it goes a long way when you are kind. You can hear that answer by signing up for Wild Card Plus, which is a fantastic way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen sponsor free. Find out more at plus.npr.org slash Wildcard. This episode was produced by Rommel Wood with help from summer to mod and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Patrick Murray. Wildcard's executive producer is Beth Donovan. Our theme music is by Rom Teen Arablewee. You can reach out to us

at Wildcard at npr.org. We'll shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. Talk to you then.