Wild Card with Rachel Martin - LeVar Burton is learning to embrace the chaos (encore)

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

LeVar Burton has three roles he'll forever be known for: Kunta Kinte on the TV series Roots, Geordi La Forge on Star Trek: The Next Generation and host of Reading Rainbow. Those roles have had profound impacts on people and he now understands, as he puts it, "my job is to be LeVar Burton." He talks to Rachel about the tension of that job, his changing definitions of success and learning to embrace the chaos. To listen sponsor-free, access bonus episodes and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcard See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Hey, it's Rachel, and I hope that you're getting some time away from regular life this summer. Our team at Wildcard is doing exactly that this week. So, we are re-uping one of our very favorite episodes with LeVar Burton. Perfect for whatever road trip you might have coming up. People throw around National Treasure left and right, but I am telling you, LeVar Burton really is. I talked to him after a new documentary about Reading Rainbow came out. Take a listen.

Has your idea of success changed over time? Yes. I used to embody success unconsciously by how busy I felt and how busy I was. Now I feel that success is spending my time well. I'm Rachel Martin and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest chooses questions at random from a deck of cards. Pick a card one through three. Questions about the memories in and beliefs that have shaped them. My guest this week is actor Lovar Burton.

I've come to the conclusion that my job is to be Lovar Burton, and I love my job. And as it happens, my job requires a lot of energy going out. And unless I recharge this battery, it's not good. So we all get this one life, right? And we're lucky if in this one life, we find that thing that truly brings us joy and gives us purpose. And if that thing ends up touching other people in some way and making a

difference in their lives, well, that's something to be grateful for. And LeVar Burton has done that over and over. He got his big break when he was just 19 years old, when he starred as Kunta Kinti in the TV miniseries roots. There had never been a depiction of American slavery like that before. And that role won Lovar Burton and Emmy nomination in a permanent place in our culture. To me, Lavaher Burton will always be Lieutenant Commander Jordie LaForge, the dry-witted chief engineer of the Starship Enterprise. So I lived in Japan after college, and I taught English in this really small town. The woman who had the job before me left a huge pile of VHS tapes behind, with hours and hours of episodes of Star Trek The Next Generation.

I taught at the local middle school, and every day when I came home totally wiped out, I put in a tape, and I watched Captain Picard and Data and Jordy save humanity. Jordy was the heart of that show, which had everything to do with Lovar Burton. But if you ask people in their 30s or early 40s who Lovar Burton is, odds are, they're going to smile and talk about what a big deal reading rainbow was to them growing up. As the host Lovar Burton didn't just teach kids to love reading, he taught them to love themselves,

to believe that they had their own voice in this beautiful but complicated world. There's a new documentary about the huge impact that show had. It is called Butterfly in the Sky. And with that, it is my sincere pleasure to welcome Lavaugh Burton to Wildcard. Hi, Lavaar. Hey, Rachel. Thank you so much for being here. That has to be one of the most lovely introductions I've ever heard.

That means a lot to me because you've been introduced a time or two. That was really, that was lovely. Thank you. Oh, thank you. I mean, I meant every word of it. So I got a chance to watch the documentary. way. And it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing to witness and to remember what that show was. And you hear through the voices of the kids who are now grown-ups, what it meant to them,

what it was to them. When you think back on it, though, I mean, I referenced roots in that intro. You came out of that riding pretty high. Like, I'm imagining, I don't know this, but I'm imagining a lot of doors open for you. Sure. Why did you want to do a, a kids' public television show about reading? My mother was an English teacher, and I grew up in a house where reading was not optional, okay? And so when the idea was put to me, I thought immediately, wow, let's, yeah, let's do that. Let's use this very powerful engagement factor of this technology, right, TV, and put it to service in, educating our kids and informing a link, an indelible connection between a child who can read and changing them into a reader for life, having them have the opportunity to self-select.

I'm a reader, okay? Yeah. That was like, I knew what that felt like. I knew the value of that feeling. And that's why I wanted to do Reading Rainbow. And, you know. We should just say, can I just say, you had an opportunity to grace. fully exit reading Rainbow when you got Star Trek? Yes, I did. And you were like,

mm-mm, this is too important. I'm going to just work all the time, I guess. Rick Berman, the executive producer of Star Trek The Next Generation, had a history of producing children's television, and he knew how important Reading Rainbow was. So the edict was when LeVar needs to get out to go shoot Reading Rainbow, and everybody made it happen. Round one memories. Ready? Ready? Okay, let's go. So, three cards.

Yeah. And you pick one, two, or three? Three. What's something your parents taught you to appreciate? Hmm. The value of hard work. Doing your absolute best, no matter what it is you're doing, right? Being the president of the United States or sweeping the sidewalk, you put your whole self into that task.

that's the way we do life. How did they model that for you? I mean, clearly they just did it every day. My mom was a hardworking woman. Her first career was as an English teacher. It's where she met my father. But as my sisters and I were growing up, Ma was a social worker. And when I left home to go to college, I couldn't afford, we couldn't afford the University

of Southern California. And I got a full scholarship, a California. a California State Scholarship, but still there was a gap in my financing. And my mom, in addition to working her day job as a social worker for the Sacramento County Department of Social Warfare, she waited cocktails at night at Smalls Paradise in Sacramento. And that's how I was able to go to USC. So that makes sense now to me that someone would say you have the opportunity to just do one job and be a star on Star. track or do these two very demanding jobs and do raining rainbow. And for you, you're like,

yeah. The underlying lesson, Rachel, was do your best no matter what you're doing. And that there is no thing that you cannot accomplish if you put your heart, your mind, and your soul into it. I love that. I believe, I mean, you're Lovar Burton, so I believe whatever you say. It's a special power. Don't abuse it. But it just carries more weight. coming from you. This is Irma Jean's wisdom. Every time I have the opportunity to speak my mother's name in public, I do. Irma, Jean, Christian. That was that woman's name. And I am largely, in large measure, the man that I am due to the woman that she was on this planet. I get that. Yeah. Thank you. Last one in this round. Okay. Three new questions. One, two, or three?

I'll go with number one, Rachel. Oh, what do you admire about your teen. teenage self? My teenage self had this unshakable belief that everything was going to work out okay. Everything was just going to be fine, you know, that I was going to, you know, move to Los Angeles, study theater, graduate with a degree, move to New York, hustle my way onto the Broadway stage, and, you know, and have a career inspired by Ben Vareen, correct? I mean, you sort of did that. Well, it wasn't like false confidence. No, but that's what I admire about that kid. That's what I admire about him.

Yeah. You know, the odds were so stacked against him. And had he really understood what his expectations were, I mean, really understood them in terms of the real world and how things generally work out? You know what I mean? Yeah. But he was focused and he trusted. And boy, did he manifest. Do you, I mean, you admire that about your younger self.

Do you find it more difficult now at this stage of life to tap into that? Or has that been a constant through line for you? No, that's how Kuntar rolls. That's, you know, Jessica Rabbit would say, I'm just drawn that way. I'm an eternal optimist, and I look for the good. I expect the miracle to happen. I believe that everything does work out the way it's supposed to. And I guess that's just always been a part of my outlook.

We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, it's time for round two, insights. I had to come to terms with, you know what, I may never do anything as big or as important or as impactful as this, okay? You just need to manage your expectations. We are on to round two. In this round, we're focused on insights, stuff you're working through right now. What you're learning. All those things. Let's get into it. All right. Three new cards. Pick a card. One, two, three. I want to go one. You're feeling one. I am. Has your idea of success changed over time? Yes. I used to embody success unconsciously by how busy

I felt and how busy I was. Now, I feel that success is spending my time well. And what that means to me, what that looks like is a balance of work and leisure, work and rest. Because I recognize at this stage in my life that, although I have a lot of energy, there's a limit to it. And the older I get, the more important it is for me to create that balance of activity and recuperation. Yeah. My job, I've come to the conclusion that my job is to be Lovar Burton and I love my job. And as it happens, my job requires a lot of energy going out, right? It's energy output.

And unless I recharge this battery, it's not good. It's interesting, though. You got so high, so fast, right? Like, after Roots, you were up here. I was 19. Yeah, you're 19. I mean, you're still like a kid. And so I wonder if your definition of success, that epiphany of realizing you need balance,

you got to conserve, you can't just soar or you'll burn out. I wonder if that had to evolve. That was experiential. Yeah. I had to learn that. Because that's a long life, God willing. Exactly. And I think one of the gifts of Roots was that I had to come to terms with, you know what,

I may never do anything as big or as important or as impactful as this, okay? And I'm 19. So you just need to manage your expectations. No, seriously about what's going to happen next because clearly, A, you don't know. And B, chances are this may be the pinnacle. It just, it may be. It wasn't. There were many other.

No, it turned out not to be, right? And that's the miracle of my life that it wasn't the only leg on my stool. I have these three jewels, I call them, in my career crowned in Roots and Reading Rainbow and Star Trek. And I think part of the beauty of that journey for me is seeing that as a storyteller, I've been able to portray the Black experience in America from our enslavement to the stars. And LeVar, the Reading Rainbow Guy, is absolutely in the middle of that continuum. And so to really plot the trajectory of black people through time and space in this roughly 20th, 21st century time frame. That is very profound.

Yeah. What a gift. Yeah, what a gift. What a gift. What a gift. I do. I love it. Okay.

Insights. Three more cards. Okay. You got a skip and a flip. I love it. You're like, I don't need a skip. Oh. I'm Levard Burton.

I don't need a skip. We haven't come across a question that gives me a pause. Well, I noticed that. So far. Yeah. So far. You don't have to deploy them. Okay.

All right. One, two, three. I'm going to go two just to keep it, you know. Keep it fresh. Mm-hmm. Which voices have you learned to turn down in your life? Which voices have I learned to turn down? You mean internal or external?

Either. The internal voices that I'm trying to turn the volume down in my life are the... Right now I'm really working on responding instead of reacting. So I guess the voice that I'm trying to turn down is that reactionary voice, that part of me that gets triggered and want to. to react, right? Instinctively, rather than take a moment, take a breath, and then respond. Maybe it's your public persona, but I feel like that's all you ever do. It is hard. I know you're going to be annoyed by this, but it is hard to imagine you getting really pissed off about something. Oh, my God. You could not be more wrong. When's the last time you got really mad? I'm serious.

Like really mad? Yeah, like really mad. You don't have to tell on anyone, but what? What was the circumstance? It's an ongoing thing in my world. We live in a house that has two small dogs, and these dogs are genetic siblings. They come from different litters, but they have the same mother and father. And they almost share a nervous system. Are you about to tell me you get really irrationally mad at your dogs? I get irrationally mad at the chaos.

Ah, yeah. It's not, it's the chaos. It is the absence of peace in my environment that triggers me, right? I mean, you are a parent. You did have children. Yeah. You raised them. Yeah.

It's chaos. Yeah. And at this stage in my life, I believe I deserve peace, right? I've done chaos, right? But I'm still doing chaos in order to train me to know. not react. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when I master that, the chaos will not matter.

We've got another quick break. When we come back, LeVar talks to me about how his conception of God has changed over time. As my world expanded and as my thirst for a deeper understanding of the world expanded, so did my idea of God expand. Okay, we are on round three. This is the final round, and for this one, we're getting into the big stuff. The really big stuff. No kidding.

The real big. You have not been half stepping so far. I don't know. Who has time for half stepping? Exactly. We're getting into the beliefs that shaped the way you see the world. Yeah. Okay.

So here we go. Three new cards. Yep. One, two, three. One. One. How do you stay connected to people you've lost? I just know that they're still there.

And it is in that awareness that that, The connection is alive. It's particularly present, like for my mom. When Irma Jean passed, I felt her intensely for about three, four months, right? And I knew she was there, and I knew she was in there. She was pulling strings. She was advocating on the other side. And that was really, it was like amazing and comfort.

and genuinely unsurprising. That's the way it happens. I guess I had an already established belief. That's what happens when you cross over, you know? You're still present on some level, and you're still looking out for it, involved in the lives of your loved ones. And that is, in fact, part of the task that we're presented with when we cross over. So that was really comforting to feel.

And even though I don't feel it as intensely on a visceral level, I still know that she's there. May I ask you to share, is there a particular ritual? Is there a place you go where you know you're going to feel her more acutely? Everything I do that's connected with literacy and literature and the written word. It's all in honor of her. It's all a tribute to Hermogen. All inspired by her, cultivated, inculcated by her.

Yeah. I love that. Okay. Question two. Three more cards. One, two, three. Two. I'm glad this came up because I really wanted to ask you this question. Have your feelings about God or a divine power changed over time? They have. I was raised a Catholic. And so I was raised with the idea of God as vehicle for punishment. Right. And that has definitely changed over time. I'm much more in the camp of we are a part of God. God is a part of us, right?

We are spiritual beings looking for an experience of God. We are actually God beings having human experience. And that just makes sense to me, that we are a part of the all there is. This cosmos is about mystery and infinity, and those concepts are as vast. as God is. And I guess for me, it's just, it makes more sense. It's comforting to me to feel like we are, that I am a part of that. Not apart from, not separated from, but.

And the ambiguity is okay. It is not unsettling to you. Yeah, not at all. Not at all. Faith is about reconciling the ambiguity. Yeah, I guess you sort of have had to make peace with it. Yeah, you do. You do. That's the whole rub.

It is. It is. The belief in the absence of proof is what? Faith. We should just point out, for those who don't know, this was going to be your thing. I mean, you were going to go into the priesthood. Yeah, I studied for four years, yeah. Did you, and it was that punitive God at that time, you didn't have this bigger definition? No, I did not.

No, it was pretty, my concept of God was formed by the catechartic. of Catholicism and those precepts. And then as my world expanded and as my thirst for a deeper understanding of the world expanded, so did my idea of God expand. Why did that path diverge? Can you tell me about the moment you realize this is not for me? Yeah, it happened about midway through the first four years at St. Pius, and I realized that the world was bigger and that the answers that I was being given from the dogma of Catholicism weren't satisfying my curiosity. And so I was hyper-focused on becoming a priest.

Where did that fall with your performing dream? Well, the thing that I looked for after I recognized, oh, wait a minute, this isn't how I'm going to spend the rest of my life. now what the hell am I going to do, right? And so it was one of those bathroom moments, right? Don't you have epiphanies in the bathroom, in the mirror? I mean, I do. I do. I don't know if I do.

Yeah, well, I do. I'm one of those people. I have epiphanies in the bathroom in the mirror, and I was standing in the mirror, and I was thinking, what the hell am I going to do with the rest of my life now that this life goal is no longer an option for me? And it was theater arts. I had discovered my tribe. And I thought, you know what? I think I can do this.

I think I can become a professional actor. I love this so much. And it fills up so, it checks so many boxes for what makes me happy, right? Why don't I give this a chance? And it sort of happened simultaneously with a growth spurt and a change in my own self-image. I went from like this role. Pully kid who, you know, whose nickname had been popping fresh, the, you know, the Pillsbury Doe Boy. That was your nickname?

That was one of them, yeah. Preacher was the other, but I was a roly poly kid. And then I grew, right? And that ugly duckling became a swan, a black swan. And I thought, I'm going to see what happens here. Yeah. Yeah. So you will be pleased to know, I'm sure, that you have won.

Did I? Is my favorite part. Tell him what he's won, Rachel. A brand new car. Yes! And a trip to Sweden. Just kidding. You didn't win either of those things.

Okay, fine. But you did win a trip in our memory time machine. Wow. You get to revisit a moment from your past right here, right now. Okay. This is a moment you would not change anything about. This is just a moment where you would like to. to sit and spend a little more time in.

What do you choose? I have a very natural affinity for the Caribbean. Whenever I'm in that environment, my spirit lines up with my body, right? And I feel at home. I feel nurtured. I feel like everything there is set up for me to operate at peak efficiency

and at a level of peace that escapes me. And when I'm like here in this country. And so the moment of peace that I'm reliving is just the feeling of Barbados. Levar Burton, acclaimed actor, Emmy Award-winning TV host of Reading Rainbow. You can see him in the documentary Butterfly in the Sky. And those of you missing his reading voice can listen to his podcast. It is a wonderful thing. It's called LeVar Burton Reeds.

It was such a pleasure. Truly, truly, thank you. Thank you. This was more everything that I expected and then some. I'm so pleased. It was. You did not disappoint. This episode was produced by Cher Vincent and edited by Dave Blancher.

It was fact-checked by Jane Gilvan and mastered by Patrick Murray. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni, and our theme music is by Romteen Arablewee. You can reach out to us at Wildcard at npr.org. We're going to shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. See you then.