Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Mike Birbiglia doesn't think every setup needs a punchline

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

When Mike Birbiglia tells a story, he tries to make it relatable to everyone in the audience – whether it's tapping into his childhood anxiety, relating his clumsy attempts at self improvement or sharing his earnest fears about his aging parents. Mike's new Netflix special is The Good Life. He shares with Rachel how he learns valuable lessons from writing jokes, and explains how found some peace.To listen sponsor-free and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcard See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Has ambition ever led you astray? When hasn't it? When I talk to my peers for my 20s, I do think I was a little off-putting in relation to my own ambition. I think everyone who does whatever job they do at a very high level does have, in some ways, an uncomfortable degree of ambition. I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life. questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one question back on me.

My guest this week is comedian Mike Berbiglia. I think what you have to learn to do as a grown-up, and being a grown-up starts, I believe, at around age 35 or 40, is understanding how ambition does not work against being kind. So it's not very often that I listen to a middle-aged man from Massachusetts who tells jokes for a living, and then I think to myself, that dude gets me. But I actually think Mike Barbigley and I might have been separated at birth. First off, yes, I know there are big differences. I, for example, am from Idaho.

He is from New England. He is hilarious. I can't even get my kids to laugh at my jokes. But there are a lot of parallels. Mike was raised in a really religious family, so is I. His dad preferred reading books about World Wars instead of parenting. Same. And he owes a podcast where he asks people.

People point blank, really deep questions. I mean, come on, this was meant to be. His new comedy special is called The Good Life. His 2023 show, The Old Man in the Pool, was nominated for an Emmy. His one man off-Broadway show, Sleepwalk With Me, was turned into a movie that won all kinds of awards. And I am so happy to welcome Mike Berbiglia to Wildcart. Hi. Oh, my gosh. Thanks, Rachel.

You're welcome. I'm so glad you're here. Round one. First set of cards. you pick one, two, or three. Let's do three. Three. What was a moment when you felt proud of yourself as a kid?

Oh my gosh. My mom always brings this up, which is when I was in high school, my parents moved to a new town. And in Massachusetts, I had no friends. Literally no friends. They moved in the summer. And so there's no school even. Right.

She was like, I have no friends and then no school. And my parents went away for a few days for something, maybe something with my siblings. And so I entered a tennis tournament. And I trained and I like, I went to the local tennis court, like leading up to it for like a few weeks. And I hit serves every morning because I'd read that about Pete Sampras that he does that. Like he hits 100 serves before practice. Yeah. And then I drove myself back and forth to the tournament.

And I won. I won the tournament. Here's what's bananas about it. Is that all of the parents, at these tennis tournaments in New England, the parents are so serious. And all the parents were, like, gathered around. And everyone was just like, where are your parents? And I was just like, I don't know. And then, like, I just drove home with this big trophy.

And I, like, still have to. I mean, it's crazy. Like, was anyone there for you? didn't have friends, so your friends weren't there. Your siblings are not in this memory. So they were either with your parents or no. I knew not a single person there. But like, what a flex to be the new kid who starts school in the fall being like,

right here. Tennis champion. Honestly, I didn't even tell anybody. Because it's such a weird thing to say, like, hey, I entered this tennis tournament. It's only when you're 46 years old that you can be like, I did win a tennis tournament when I was 16. I mean, did you go, were you good? I mean, you were clearly good.

I was good enough for that. Whatever that was, I was good enough. Okay. Second set of three, one, two, three. Let's go with one. One. What's something your parents taught you to love? Oh.

Hmm. That's really interesting. I have this line in The Good Life, which is kids don't know a lot, but they absorb everything. You know, so like if you're kind, they know you're kind. If you're selfish, they know you're selfish. I think with my parents, it's like as I've gotten older, I've realized that my mom is so deeply kind to people in this way that I feel like I've not been able to live up to it, but I've at least been able to aspire to it. It's been a certain type of North Star. And so, like, for example, my mom, she, it's an absurd quality.

I've never talked about this on stage. I feel like she's willing to be friends with anyone who wants to be friends. Yeah. And so she just has this, like, cavalcade of friends. You know, she'll just be like, Ellen from swim class said this. And I'm like, who's Ellen from swim class? She's like, I just met her like three weeks ago. You know, like, Doris from stitching said that.

Like, who is Doris from Stitcher? Like, she's just, she's an amazing friend to kind of the planet. Yeah, yeah. My mom was like that. My mom would go to Marie Callender's, and she would like make best friends with the woman sitting next to her, eating like the Marie Callender's blueberry pie. And all of a sudden she knows her entire life story.

And sometimes those relationships would continue. And sometimes there were just these little ephemeral, beautiful things that happened to her. And then they evaporated. But yeah. It's got forest gump energy. Yeah, yeah, totally. It's like, it's not full forest gump, but it's in the universe of it. Like my dad would say in kind of a negative way when I was a kid, he would be like, Mary Jean, you would talk to a doorknob.

You know what I mean? And it would be like at her expense. In my mind, I was like, that's pretty good quality. How does that, I mean, do you try to. emulate that? You said she's like a North Star and he's tried to channel that? Yeah. I mean, well, that's my experience of, I mean, I toured the Good Life to 70 cities in America. And what I have to, like my experience of being a comedian over the course of whatever it is, 23 years of being a comedian is, I feel like I've gone everywhere. I've gone to like 47 states. And I find that the thing that you discover about America, if you travel through it, is you go.

people are pretty sweet and they're pretty smart and they're pretty like it's it's a very it's a very I find this to be a very compelling country so many places where you just go oh this is you go to Tulsa and you'll go like oh my god those are the coolest people I've ever met you know what I mean yeah you go yeah you go to Boise you go those are the coolest people I've ever met like I just I and I think that that a little bit of that is like my mom um um um um um giving to me this idea of just, yeah, just talk to anybody. Yeah. What about your dad?

My dad, I feel like is a little bit the opposite of that. He's a little more. That specific thing. I think that my dad, I think that the strongest quality, that he care, that he sort of passed on to me is a certain type of rigor. Uh-huh. I think he was a, he's a very serious student. I make the joke in The Good Life where I say, he was a doctor in his free time,

he got his law degree, and then I go, that's how much he didn't want to be a dad. But, but I think that that rigor that he has and reading war novels and all that is something that I've certainly attempted in my own small ways. No, it was the same for me. I mean, my dad was just a lawyer. He wasn't also a doctor. He didn't like to pick up. Sure.

Pick up his MD along the route. But he was a volunteer Presbyterian minister. That's pretty good. And so he did, yeah, he like took his time. He's doing double duty there. Yeah, right now the sermon's on the legal pads. It's a perfect example of our parents being the same people. They're the same people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My mom, really, we used to joke, not the doorknob, but we used to joke, we could give her a stick for Christmas. And she'd, like, go on and on them. This is the most amazing. stick. We did it to like be snarky and mean about it, but it was also she just was, she just appreciated things and she was also, she was an

artist, she could like look at a stick and genuinely think it looked like amazing. Sure. Mom. Practice and appreciation. Next one. One, two or three. Let's do one.

Were you obsessed with a particular cosmic question as a kid? Cosmic question. question, you mean just having to do with the cosmos, the skies, the space, space? You can interpret it however you want. You can interpret it. Existence? Yeah. Existential. I think like, I think for me, it was a real inflection point that occurred when I was probably 12 or 13 years old in my life where my whole childhood, I was an altar boy and I was religious and I was go to church and I had rosary beads and everything was through the lens of that me and God were together and we're just sort of figuring this out together. And around probably 12 or 13,

I was like, oh yeah, I'm not fully buying into that as an idea. And now what? It's just a very, it's very extraordinary experience to go through in a certain way, thinking that everything is, is through the lens of a monotheistic god to going, oh, maybe nothing. Maybe nothing is anything. And I feel like that was my shift of my cosmic thinking as a child. Did that create any grief in you as 12-year-old, Mike Barbiglia? Or it was just very plain, very matter of fact? I think I felt a bit of drift.

I think it was, I felt, I felt matter of. fact, but I also felt like I'm not sure who my friends are or if I have any friends. You know what I mean? I think it's an odd moment that a lot of people have and some people never have. But it is that some people have where you go, your whole life is based in a religion, which is a type of cult in fair. I do run on cults that in the special that I point out the pros and cons of cults. But, you know, it is a certain type of a thing. very popular cult. Right.

And there was a certain point where I was like, yeah, I'm not quite buying into the tenets of the cult. I believe in a lot of them, you know, in a purely like, you know, I think Jesus is a great, you know, if true, what's in the New Testament, great guy, right? Jesus was a good guy, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Fantastic. Fantastic. So many great qualities. But the, but the kind of like the, the, the, the larger institutional. things were a little more suspect in my mind. I want to pull back and talk about your special. Congratulations. Oh, thanks. Do you just start out with a thing, a particular story that you feel like you want to tell

and that you could make an hour's worth out of material over? Or do you just like get this internal, it's time? I got to get back out there. Or you just, I mean, audience? I think part of it is based on obsession. So like what, like I talk about this on my podcast working it out. I have comedians on every week and we talk about our jokes. And we kind of quote unquote workout jokes in real time.

And I always, when people ask like, where do you start? I always say like obsession with something, like whatever it is. So with this one, for example, it was an obsession with like my daughter was turning at the time eight years old. And I was, it was hitting that point where I was going. I don't, she has a lot of questions and I actually don't know the answers to this level of question. That's right. Like I, it was so many things where I was just going, wow, I'm going to have to explain drugs and sex and, and what we're just talking about, religion and existence and all these life and death and all these things. And I started talking about that for like a year on stage.

Like the first half of my tour was just me talking about how I can't explain anything to my daughter and how pathetic that is and how inadequate I feel as a parent. And then about a year ago, my dad had a stroke. It was devastating. It was a cute stroke. And he was in the hospital for months. And then he was in rehab for months. And now he's home with care. And it's hard. It's really, really hard. And so I started talking about a year ago about how I had to explain that to my daughter. And I started to explore this idea of like, okay, well, what does my father taught me? And then what am I teaching my daughter? And it became about that. And that's where the title is, the title. the good life came from because the there was like there's like a smoke shop in our neighborhood called the good life and una looks up and she goes dad what's the good life and i was like oh my god that's just like such a it's such a multi-pronged question so your comedy people who love you and love your comedy know that um you're a storyteller at heart and it seems to me that you are about way more than the funny because you will sit in a in a story that has a moment of sincerity and earnestness.

And there is no punchline. And you just sit there. And I wonder if that took you, if it took you a while to earn the confidence of your audience to do that. You know what I mean? I think that's part of it. I think like, you know, part of its pressure from my collaborators. So for example, like Ira Glass from Miss American Life is a, is a store consultant on this

one. I've heard of him. Yeah, yeah. He's, his name's getting. out there. And there's Seth Berrish, my director, who's directed all of my solo shows on and off-Broadway. And they're definitely, they put the screws to me if there isn't enough true pathos or revelation in the show. So like, literally I sent the audio to Ira like nine months ago and he goes, he goes, it's really funny, but like if you were able to just level

with the audience a few times with how you really feel and not have there be a punchline. I think it would be more effective. And then I kind of found those moments over the tour in the last nine months. There's a beautiful one where you're describing a moment with your dad who by now we understand to be a person who doesn't really give a lot of physical affection. Sure. And I can't remember who is stroking whose arm. Was it you? I was stroking his arm. You were stroking his arm. And I, and it's just, it's, it's such a lovely thing. And it's perfect in the context of the story that you're telling. But also, how do you know how long to sit there?

Like, do you, do you find that your audience is uncomfortable in that moment and you need to turn to a joke pretty quick after that? Or how do you measure that in your body? Like, oh, this is now long enough. Everyone's starting to get sad. I'm going to flip it. A lot of it is trial and error. A lot of it is like, is, I guess, like, building up the courage to do something that has no laughs in it. And this is probably, we're referencing probably like maybe three or four moments during the show.

Right. It's very funny. It is mainly hilarious. Yeah, it's primarily jokes. But then, yeah, there's about three or four moments, including the stroke of my dad's shoulder. And, yeah, a lot of that's trial and error. And, like, you know, is there a feeling in the audience? And sometimes literally, like, I'll be on tour and there is like a sense of like, or is an audible kind of like gasp at those moments.

And then when that happens, it's like you go, oh, yeah, I'm really, I'm really, there's something here that people, to your point earlier, you're just like, oh, how is this, how am I thinking that this middle age guy's story is my story. And it's like, that's the goal of the whole thing. The goal of the whole thing is that literally everyone in the audience, age 13 to 113, feels like, oh yeah, this is my story. And that's my favorite thing. My favorite thing is when I look out in the audience and no one looks like me. You know what I mean? Like that's so satisfying. Does that happen a lot?

It's never happened. I'm waiting. I'm waiting. This is a hypothetical scenario. It's like 3,000 people who look exactly like me. 3,000 Mike Bragglia clones in the audience and a handful of Ira glasses for good measure. You are handsome. And so are you, Ira.

Everybody's looking good at night. No exceptions. No, but you do have, you know, because I've been on this American life over the years. So you do, I do get my share of like Ira Glass clones in the audience. No, it's a whole look. I know. Oh, it's a whole look. He started it all.

He started it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, round two. Three more cards. Number two. Number two is what you want. Okay. Yep.

What failure do you still think about? A specific failure in my life? Yeah. Because I think, like I think, like, I think, like, I'll give you an example of one that's really vulnerable and I feel like I will write about someday. But I, I haven't yet, which is like, when I was a kid, probably around ninth grade, I was very much bullied. and I was I got punched a lot I was in the All Boys Catholic school

and it was really really tough for me not for everybody for me it was very tough and and then I switched schools and then there was

cases where people would bully like I remember another kid I won't say his name where kids were bullying that kid holding him down slapping and whatever. It was kind of a hazing kind of energy. And I feel like I was a part of that. And I feel like that is not something that my adult self would do. But I think that my 15-year-old self would.

And I think that that's a hard lesson. I feel like you never, I think one never fully lives that down. That's such an interesting answer, actually, because I feel like when this question has come up with other people, I think most people lean into like the professional world and this didn't work out for me and this isn't. And it's very interesting that you went to like what you would consider, tell me if I'm wrong, but what you're characterizing is like a moral shortcoming when you were younger. Yeah, I think that's accurate. That now you would have handled that differently. I'd like to think so, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the thing that recurs in my mind. And even it's the thing that like when I'm, I'm, that's why I was pausing to even share it because I'm in my mind doing the calculation of the listeners. How much will they judge me? How much can they take?

Yeah. How much is in the comment section of people saying, well, you're a jerk because blah, blah, blah. And I, and I'm not there to say, no, no, I'm telling you. But I'll say you were 15. It's not like this happened like 40-year-working party. No, I know. No, it's true. It's true. But I will say like I think that that it actually ties into my comedy quite a bit because I do think the most interesting comedy is when people are willing to talk about things they've done wrong. But I think that in this moment where there is sometimes a little bit of holier than now energy culturally that people feel very comfortable. expressing. And I think I'm able in my shows

to say, like, it's almost become a catchphrase in my show, like, I'll say, like, if the audience gasps, I'll be like, I know, I'm in the future also. You know what I mean? Like, I'll call out, like, that I'm aware that I'm the person who's wrong in this story. Yeah. But when the audience

isn't there in real time, and it's just the internet, it just sort of flies out there and it's kind of for anyone else's consumption. And, and, and however people wish to take it apart. Three more cards, one, two, or three. Let's try three.

Has ambition ever led you astray? When hasn't it? No, it's wild. Like, yeah, the ambition thing is certainly ever present in my life. In my 20s, when I started doing comedy, I just thought I have to succeed immediately. Like I had no, there was no runway for success. It was just my parents don't want me to be a comedian.

So I have to be a comedian immediately or else they're just going to disown me. So I think that, you know, when I talk to my peers for my 20s, I do think I was, I was a little off-putting in relation to my own ambition. Huh. Just being unbridled. I think everyone who works, who does whatever job they do at a very high level does have, in some ways, an uncomfortable degree of ambition. But I think that I think what you have to learn to do as a grown-up, and being a grown-up

starts, I believe, around age 35 or 40, as far as I understand. So you're just breaking into it right now. You're just getting your groove. Yeah. Is understanding how ambition does not work against being kind. So when you were in your 20s and you said that some people could find you off-putting because of your ambition, were you less kind? Or how did that manifest? I think that it's – I honestly think that way it manifests. was, you know, for, you know, things that are simple as simple as like forgetting people's names,

forgetting to call people back, forgetting to, you know, email people back or, you know, being transactional, being like, asking for things, but never offering things, you know, like, and I think that that when I was in my 20s, it's like, that's what even my closest friends from college, who I'm still, like my improv group from college is still like some of my closest friends. I think if I were to really put their feet to the fire on like, what's the most critical thing you'd say about me in my 20s? They'd say, yeah, that. Like, you were just like, you were there when, when you needed us and you weren't there when we needed you. That's tough. Yeah, I'm trying to find my way in that now, you know, I'm trying to,

trying to earn people's trust back and, you know, all that. Yeah. Do you, are you good at carving out time for friendships? That's where I find it's hard. That's the thing that ends up falling away when you're at your family and your job and any kind of exercise one might do. No, I think it's, I think it's probably my weakest vector of the pie that is one's time. Yeah, I think friendship I find probably the most challenging. Yeah. Okay.

Last one in this round. One, two, or three. All right. Let's do one. What does age teach you about love? Oh. What does age teach you about love? I think that, I think what it teaches you is that it's a longer, that it's a longer term timeframe than you think it is possible.

possibly when you're younger. Like that when you're when you're younger, when you're in your teens and 20s, you think you're so driven by like your passion of like, I'm in love with this person. We're going to see the world together. We're going to, you know, et cetera. And I think that I think as you get older,

you have a sense of like, oh no, there's a longer, there's a longer game to this. that like it's that like in some ways like loving someone for for five or 10 or 20 or 30 years is meaningful and and it's and it's hard and challenging but but is but that the the payoff of it's meaningful you've been married for a long time right yeah 16 I think 17 years in July yeah we got married at city City Hall almost 17 years ago And when, how old were you? May I ask?

I think I was 30? Yeah, it was 30. Yeah. So when you were 30, did you have the same expectation of what a long love is as you do now? I don't think, I don't think either of us did. I mean, what's funny is like a few years ago, Jenny said to me, she goes, when we got married, I didn't even think we were going to be married more than a year. I was like, you didn't think we were going to be married more than a year? that's not, I thought we were getting married for life.

Like, how could we were one on the same page about that? That's an inside thought. Exactly, that's an inside thought. I thought this is a whole life thing. Round three. Beliefs. One, two, or three. Let's try three. Three.

Have you made peace with mortality? Oh, man. Yeah, I mean, it's funny. My last special of the old man in the pool very much goes headlong in to this, where I basically was like, how do I, can I make a show that's all about death? Yeah. And have it be funny and have us walk away feeling good, better than we came in. And I feel like in a lot of ways I'm working through, to use your language, my making peace with ideas through the comedy specials.

And so in a lot of ways, like, I'm working through these things. And, yeah, I do feel like I do feel like I have come to peace with mortality. Yeah, I do. I do. In specific terms, how did making that special, old man in the pool, how did that help you come to terms with dying, either yours or your loved ones? Like, was there anything particular? Is it just the thinking of it over many, many months as you put it together? I think it's spending so much time thinking about the people who I've lost in my life, who've died in my life, and thinking about how much life I've been lucky enough to live.

Already, yeah. Already. And just this idea of like, this is a line that was too on the nose for the old band in the pool. but it's like, you know, I remember writing down this thought in my journal, which is like, you know, a day is a week, is a month, is a year, as 10 years, is 80 years. It's like we're all alive for about a day. And I feel like that's the kind of line that sometimes in my shows on does on a cutting room floor, but I feel the experience of it. And I feel like that's where I landed with that show. Yeah.

There's something you wrote, forgive me. It was in an article. Maybe it was in one of your specials about your dad and maybe an uncle having a heart attack at the same age. Yeah, it was my father. I think it's my dad at a heart attack at 56 and his dad had a heart attack at 56. Yeah. So that is marked for you. So I'm saying, yeah, exactly.

I'm setting aside that whole year when I turned 56. like an Airbnb by the hospital. But that stuck with me because my mom died when she was 60, and I think that's far too young. But it does sear itself in your mind. And I'm 51 now. And I'm not 60 yet, but it is in my head that age. And it does make you think, this is just icing. Like every day I get to live.

Oh, yeah. It's just extra. I think Bill Burr had a joke recently in one of his specials where he's just like, like guys just die in their 50s. You know, he's like, that's the age where people just start dying, you know. And he's not wrong. There isn't, there isn't an amount of people who just kill over in their 50s. And it's, and that's a long time.

I mean, my friend Mitch Hedberg, one of the great comedians of all time, he died when he's 37 years old. But he lived a lot of life. Right. I remember like, I remember when Robin Williams died. who I was lucky enough to meet a handful of times. And I thought, this is devastating, but also this guy has lived more life in this amount of time. He's lived 300 years of life in this space of time.

Yeah. So is it a celebration or is it a tragedy? I think it veers more towards celebration. Yeah. New cards, one, two, or three. All right, new cards. Let's try two. What truth guides your life?

more than any other. Truth guides my life. I think the truth that probably guides my life is that that trying is more significant than results. That whenever I see people in their life or in their job or whatever it is and they're trying in earnest to do their best, I always have respect for this. that. And I have it for myself. I have self-respect when I am trying. I feel like I get down on myself most when I'm not trying. And I think that that is definitely to circle back to one of the earlier

questions, that's from my parents, for sure, is my parents would always point out it doesn't matter if you win, it matters if you tried. That's so interesting, though, because you also He also pointed to them when talking about your own ideas of ambition and how ambition could really take hold and at times lead you astray. And ambition is very, you know, focused on outcome. That's what ambition is, is achieving. And it's focused on outcome, not the trying. So it's interesting that now maybe it's just the stage of your life and your career that you can look and say, no, it's the trying. It's the trying that matters.

Yeah, I think with this particular special. for the first time, I'm not talking about something that happened in my past. I'm talking about something that happened in my, is happening in my present. It's like, I'm dealing with raising my daughter now. I'm dealing with taking care of my dad now. And I'm talking about it. And it's completely unresolved. And no one knows which way it'll go.

You know, as opposed to, I sleep walked through a second story window 20 years ago. And now, you know, I sleep in a sleeping bag and I take medication and I've dealt with it. to some degree. And with this one, it was really a leap of faith. And there's an expression, people say sometimes, which is like, which is like, you know, you can work and work and work and work, and you can get something so that it's 85 or 90 percent of what it could be. And at a certain point, you just go, well, the last 10 percent, that's God, or that's something else. That's outside of your grasp. Their control, yeah. And I think that's true. And I think with this particular special, it was more true of anything I've ever done,

which is ironic because it's thematically about God. We end the show the same way every time, and we are indeed at the end. With a trip in our memory time machine, in the memory time machine, you pick one moment to revisit from your past. It is not a moment you would change anything about. It's just a moment you would linger in a little longer.

What moment do you choose? I feel like when I was, when my daughter was probably about five, in Rhode Island, my brother and sister, my brother Joe, my sister, Gina lived in Rhode Island with their kids. And we brought Una to Rhode Island. And we took her out. And they were all like bodyboarding in the ocean in Rhode Island. and it was it was such a euphoric feeling to witness una my daughter at you know age five like catching a wave you know that feeling of catching a wave and it's and it's propelling you and you're going probably faster than you've ever gone on anything and just to witness her doing this with her cousins

and it was just so beautiful. And, you know, every now and then I witness this at different ages that she experiences. But that one really sticks out as just, like, so beautiful. Mike Berbiglia, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you. Thanks for having me. This is wonderful. Mike's new comedy special is called The Good Life. It is on Netflix.

You can go to Netflix right now and click the Remind Me button, and it will remind you when it is dropping. If you like this conversation, you should go back and listen to my episode with Lena Wait. Like Mike, Lena was refreshingly honest about the parts of her personality that could take a toll on her relationships. I found the conversation extremely moving and also very fun. Today's episode was produced by Lee Hale and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Patrick Murray. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni, and our theme music is by Rom, Teen, Aro, Louis.

You can reach out to us at Wildcard. at npr.org. I love it when you do. And we're going to shuffle the deck. And then we will be back with more next week. Talk to you then.