Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Ramy Youssef wants to make it weird

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

Ramy Youssef's creative pursuits range from stand-up to his semi-biographical Hulu show, "Ramy," to his new animated series, "#1 Happy Family USA." In all of his efforts, he says he's just trying to make work that feels exciting to him. Ramy is one of the costars of the new HBO film, "Mountainhead." He talks to Rachel about his gripe with Santa Claus and reckoning with his mortality.To listen sponsor-free and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcard See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Have you made peace with mortality? More than ever? After I got married, I started thinking about death a lot because I was like, I just did this really adult thing. Yeah. I'm a married man. What a married men do? They have kids. Eventually they die.

They have jobs. And they die. I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard. The game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life. Questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one question back on me. My guest this week is Rami Yusuf.

I always view what we do as there's this conversation that needs to happen. Maybe the door is jammed and people don't know how to get to the conversation. And maybe part of what I do is go, oh, I'll hold that door. I'm not really sure if Rami Yusuf sleeps because this actor, writer, comedian, producer, director is doing all the things at once right now. He, of course, created the show Rami about a spiritually anxious Egyptian-American kid and his Muslim family, which earned him several Emmy nominations. He also co-starred in the Oscar-winning film Poor Things in 2023. His latest comedy special dropped last fall. His newest TV creation, number one Happy Family USA, came out in April.

And soon, he will share the screen with Steve Carell in the new movie Mountainhead. That is so many things. And Rami's audience keeps growing because his comedy. and point of view are highly specific and personal, while his observations about human nature reflect all of us. I am so happy to welcome Rami Yusuf to Wildcard. Hi. Hey, thank you for having me. I'm so glad to talk to you.

You're going to tell me that you sleep like 10 to 12 hours a night now, right? Like you're actually really good at sleeping? You actually really pointed out this flaw issue with sleep. I was just on the way over it. On the way over here, I was talking to a friend, I said, dude, our immune systems are compromised. We have to somehow try to hit seven hours. How much do you sleep? Oh, dude, we can talk for so long about this.

I had a job where I was in perpetual sleep deprivation for six years, and it is the worst. It is the worst. I'm still recovering, to be honest. Yeah, I want to sleep. And I look up all this stuff online, and there was a video of this woman. saying you need to rub magnesium on your feet before you go to bed. Mainline it into the feet. Mainline it into the bottom of the foot.

So now I'm, that's how seriously I'm taking what you're saying. I've tried everything except that. So now I'm going to go home. Can I tell you I'm a couple weeks in? Try it out. Is it making a difference? Yeah. Your socks get a little slippery the next day because there's just a little bit of magnesium residue.

So there's a sock factor. Yeah. Okay. I'll take that into account. See, and this, I need to have my own magnesium to sell after I make a comment like that. That's right. You need to be prepared. You got to back it up. Like ancient Egyptian magnesium or something. You know, put a little branding on it.

Like I start like going to camera and it's like, you know, I looked into my ancestors and they were using magnesium. That's why this jar should be $60. Okay. Ready? I'm ready. First three cards. Rami. One, two, or three. One.

One. What was your form of rebelling as a teenager? I think, so I was a very, I was a very bad student. You know, like I really, I couldn't focus, and I couldn't stay in class, but I also didn't want to hurt my parents and upset them. because education did mean a lot to them to my family. So I'll try to figure out a way where I, like, wouldn't have to do what I was supposed to be doing. So it was kind of a creative rebellion. So I actually – so there's a TV program in my high school.

And I would get out of other classes saying, oh, guys, like, I have to do this thing for TV because they kind of let us sort of do citizen – like student journalism. Got it, got to go. So I'd go, oh, I got to go cover this thing for TV. And I would, but I'd create all these things that had to get covered. and then I'd end up missing pretty key classes a lot. And then me and my buddy Steve Way, who I work with a lot, and we've known each other since we were like, yeah. He has muscular dystrophy.

He's in a wheelchair. So I would also, he would be doing the TV stuff with me. Half the time we'd be like, we're doing the TV stuff. The other half would be like, oh, I got to help Steve with something. Because he would just be like, just tell them we have to do some. He literally would say, tell them we got to do disabled stuff. And then I would just be like, hey, we got to do disabled stuff. And then they go, oh, my God, of course.

You're with Steve. And then we just like, go get pizza. You know, I mean, we're not, which is disabled stuff because he can't eat the pizza on his own. And he wanted pizza. So we were basically always inventing ways to never have to be where we had to be. And then I think we thought one day we would just grow up and we wouldn't be able to, like, you know, rebel like that. And then it's just kind of still what we're doing. Steve is awesome.

Your friendship is portrayed in Rami, and I love that it's like a real thing. It's not, it's like just your life. You see rebellion. I was like, I didn't like, you know, I didn't party or do, like, that wasn't what I did. It was just, we would just, it was that, I guess. Yeah. Okay. Three more cards.

One, two, three. Okay. Three. Was there a moment when you started seeing your parents as people? Um, yeah, what was the moment? Hmm. I think it, it, it started probably when I was, I think when I saw my grandfather, my father's father pass. My dad shifted into a whole different role after his father passed because, you know, I think it's that thing of, well, yeah, now that in my life I am the elder.

But I saw my dad go through that, and I remember thinking, oh, whoa, you know, he's a son like I am. Yeah. And he was a kid. And I think I knew these things, but there was something about that moment where I really felt it. And then I started to see everything that they were dealing with with us with a whole different kind of compassion. Even if I felt, you know, like all kids do, that, you know, why do I have any guardrails or why are you? telling me, you could have all those frustrations, but I kind of, I really did understand it, you know, through a different lens.

When that happens, you lose some of, if you have a relationship where you put your parents on a pedestal, I did to some degree. And then you see them emote like a human. Yeah. And in that as a vulnerability, does that, I don't know, was there a grief associated for yourself of seeing your dad not lose stature, but. just become vulnerable that way to you. It was just, it was vulnerable is the perfect word, because there was no, there was no

stature loss. If anything, I almost feel like I, I, I loved him and my mother even more, you know, because it was just, it was, you know, when you're a kid, you kind of, if you're lucky, if you're lucky, you know death as a concept, but you don't have to know it too intimately. And then when you start to know it, you start to feel, oh, wow, well, I really want to love as much as I can while I can. Yeah. You know, because, you know, you don't want to have the thought, but algebraically you go, okay, then, you know, I'll lose him at some point. But yeah, so that was really, oh, yeah, these are people, you know.

Yeah. I hadn't thought about this a long time, but it was the same. I was in my mom's closet. It was after her dad died, her last parent. And yeah, same. It's just her overwhelming grief. I was like, I was almost caught off by it. I was like, whoa, this is a lot.

Yeah. It was the same for me, like seeing my mom be vulnerable in that way. It was totally connected to losing her dad. Okay, we got into grief already. So it's going great. I'll tell you something, though, like a really interesting memory too with that because we had really petitioned my parents so that we could get a dog. It was this really, like, big thing.

And my mom was afraid of dogs even, and my dad was like, no, you know, but then we really, we got them to get us one. And there was something interesting because my grandfather who passed was in Egypt, and the night before we found out that he had passed, the dog was howling and crying all night, right? So it was really interesting because it was like, all I know is my dad fell in love with that dog afterwards because he was like the dog picked up on what happened, whether he picked up on it through me or knew something was going on. And it became this whole thing. And then now my parents are huge dog people. Animals are truth tellers.

Yeah, for real. So before we start round two, I'm going to pull back a little bit from the game and talk about first, your new movie, Mountain Head. This is created by Jesse Armstrong, who also made Succession. It's about these, you know, titans of tech in Silicon Valley. They're squirled away in this mountain resort in Utah, just having like a bro weekend. And then chaos ensues around the world. Yeah. You play a guy named Jeff, who is a super successful tech billionaire.

You read this thing, and what was your reaction? I was just really excited to talk about something that personally haunts. me. You know, just this idea of where is this tech going, you know, this is what it looks like when for a long time we've had this dynamic of power versus people and then now entering the conversation is the tech. And in a way, what we start to understand in this story is just yeah, that has a mind of its own. And what is that going to do? Yeah. The scenes where Steve Carell is yelling at you, it made me so sad on your behalf to be yelled at by Steve Correll. Were you sad?

I feel like you weren't acting. I feel like your face was just like, oh my God, Steve Carrell is yelling at me. He's ripping me a new one. And I am so sad. You know. It's nice. Testament then to my acting because, I mean, I was not sad, but I, Jeff was. So, shout out me.

Because God, Steve Carell is the coolest. dude. He's just so, it's hard to, you know, he shows up to this job and he's just as excited as all of us. He's just as curious as all of us. We're all pouring through the script going, ooh, ah, what, what about this? What about that? And I'm looking at this guy and I'm like, how does it feel like it's, this is like his first job, you know, in the best ways, right? Yeah, yeah. He obviously knows what he's doing, but he has that thing. And so I learned so much, you know, I just learned so much about how to be being around him. Anytime you could like learn how to be as a person from someone in the creative process.

Because the creative process isn't always known for, you know, shining personalities of how to be. It's never quite a roadmap on how to actually act. It's just about how to act. It's about how to act act, not how to actually act, just how to like do the, you know, the acting that happens on screen. But no, him, you go, oh, wow, I want to act like him in real life. Yeah. So you are, you're an actor, but you create a lot of stuff. Like, you're mainly like the creator guy, the writer, the producer, the director of things. What's it like to just drop into someone else's project where you don't, where you're not responsible for the whole

kit and caboodle and you just come in and you've got like your role and you just do that. And you just do that and walk out. You know what it was? I slept more. I was hitting my seven. You should do that then. I was hitting my seven. So I loved it. I was going to bed, I tuck in. I don't have to think about lighting. I don't got to look at a costume. I got my one little jacket that I put on. I show up. I got my coffee. These guys have been there for two hours. I know about that life. And I'm like, hope you guys are doing okay. I'm doing great. This is one of the best experience of my life. I'm just focusing on this guy, Jeff, and that's all it is.

That's right. You're just chilling. So I wanted to say congrats on number one happy family USA. Thank you. Which is so funny. Thank you. And a lot of it parallels Rami about just your own life experience, living life, as part of a Muslim American family. And this show in particular, it's about right after 9-11.

So it's got a particular point of view. What does animation let you do with that story that you couldn't do in a live action situation? I mean, I think, you know, I mean, we have this, the central idea that maybe want to do an animated show was thinking about how this family in this time with really heightened bigotry and Islamophobia, somewhat like now's time. But they kind of make this calculation that they need to really display their patriotism. to the neighborhood and to the world in a way that they haven't before, and they want to kind of strip themselves of everything that they are and how they look. And so they literally look different when they're in the house and when they're outside the house. So I got very fascinated by this code switch where I said, okay, this is an animated idea.

You watch the father's beard disappear as he walks through the doorway. You know, you watch them do whatever they can in order to conform. And I think that became this entry point I was fascinated about because I think everybody does that. Everybody goes, there's something about who I am when I'm home that is not good enough or that is not right or that needs to be hidden when I'm with other people. So I started to feel, okay, now this show could be for everybody. But now we're going to do it in this way that covers this era that has never really had a varied artistic point of view. And we have an opportunity to do that. Yeah.

So last question. I have a Palestinian-American friend, a dear friend of mine, who happens to working conflict resolution in the Middle East, sort of busy. Yeah. And he's a big fan. And I told him I was talking to you. And I said, if you could ask him anything, what would you ask him?

And so this is Nassim's question. He, and it's, there's a preface here, he thinks that the work that you're doing in centering Arab American and Muslim, American stories really is the most important work. Like what you're doing has such a huge impact on how how Americans in particular view Muslim Americans, just like as people. They're 360-degree selves. And so the question is, do you get that? And does that ever feel like a burden to you? I well first off I think I I always struggle with I always struggle with whether that's true or not you know and I don't and I don't really you know I the only way I can make what I make is I don't assign that to it yeah I always view what we do as there's this conversation that needs to happen maybe the door is jammed and people don't know how to get to the conversation. and maybe part of what I do is go, oh, I'll hold that door, you know.

But to me, it's like I feel like I'm just holding the door for Nassim and the work that he's doing, you know. And so that can be helpful, but I don't know if what I do is actually the work because at the end of the day, it's fart jokes and sex jokes and food jokes. But that's part of being people, right? Of course. No, no, I know. And that's, and we are so in the gutter that we have to, not us as a people, the conversation is so in the gutter. that, you know, oh, man, yeah, I have to, I guess, I guess this, we've been so, you know, dehumanized that I got to tell you, we fart and we have sex. That sucks.

I grew up in that. That's part of what this show is. I grew up in a situation that is so messed up. I have to tell you, we fart and we like the same food as you. Yeah. It's kind of a dumb position to have to even take on a level. And that's why I kind of go out of my way to say, well, you know what, I'm going to make this as weird as possible because I want it to be exciting for me. And so what I'll sometimes get is people being like, dude, did it have to be that weird man?

We're trying to show people who we are. And I'm like, no, no, I'm not trying to show anyone anything. I'm trying to do the thing that entertains me. I don't view it with the density of it'll be a solution or it'll do anything like that because that would make it impossible. to create. And I also, I, whatever Nassim thinks about me, I think about him more. I think that's the, I think that's the work. I think that's the work. Yeah. Thank you. You feel like getting back into the game. Yeah. I can't wait. I still, yeah. Are you kidding? I think we have two more. I heard. I think we have two more rounds. That's right. That's right. Rami. You do. Okay. So, this round is about insights that you might have about yourself. Oh, wow. One, two, or three. Three. Three. Oh.

In moments of conflict, do you step in or step back? I definitely step in. And I think I step in in a variety of ways. I either can step in wanting to provide solutions and kind of say, okay, which to a fault, right? I mean, like, you know, almost size. stepping why the conflict happened in order to look at the solution and skipping the part where the feeling acknowledgement happens. This is something I'm learning in my marriage.

That's right. Sometimes you just need to listen. And there is no, yeah, I know. I should step back more. I jump right in. You jump right in. Oh, I jump right in. Do you think you could give me an example of when you stepped in?

I show run shows. So I think there it's really. it's really quite simply like you have all sorts of different departments and you have all sorts of different things going on. You have, so you just, you have to make really direct phone calls. You have to get people in the room. You have to kind of get to the core of what's going on and you have to do it really fast because you're shooting in four hours or you're on set or whatever it might be. So I mean, I think on that, you know, on that level, it, you know, it's just always happening. It's such a conflict, rich. positively for this, though, too, because you're good at it. You have to be. So then I imagine you can apply it. You're like, well, no, yeah. I'm good.

And it's like fixing this stuff. So who's got a problem? Yeah. And then you kind of deal, and then you try to do the same thing with like your parents or with your, you know, like, and it's just like no one wants to hear it. You know what I mean? And everyone's like, shut up, dude. Like I'm not trying to deal with it. You know what I mean?

Like my mom was like, you know, oh, yeah, I should exercise more or whatever. And I call her and I'm like, I bought you a yoga monthly membership. and she's like, I don't want that. And I'm like, but I already paid for the month. And she goes, sucks for you. And now I'm just on the hook for this yoga thing, at least for a month. And then, of course, I forget to cancel it. And so now I pay for the yoga for like six months, you know.

And then it's just like, what the hell is going on? You know, I tried to solve this thing. And now I'm making this yoga studio rich. Yeah. I mean, shouldn't the studio call and be like, hey, your mom's not showing up. You should have to like, especially yoga. It's like this integrity practice. They, like, breathe and supposedly care about people.

Are you guys not, like, going to call me and just say you're passively billing me? No. Like, you don't have, like, a chakra that tells you that she's not showing up. It's a midness. I'll pick number one. You'll pick number one. Of the three new cards presented to you, Rami has chosen number one. Here we go.

Has ambition ever led you astray? Yeah. Of course. I mean, it becomes about like the the physical stuff it's like you you you know there's just i get i'll get so into a creative idea and whatever it takes to make it happen that i genuinely forget my body whether it's and i've had both i've had forgetting to eat or i've had overeating like it'll it'll take over like then you're just so tired and you're so exhausted and it's the thing we're sleep sleep this thing

we were talking about. And I think it almost, yeah, it's like the physical stuff and the, and, and that where you just start to feel like, oh, man. You did get married not that long ago, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then you, yeah, then you start to think like, oh, wow, you know, you want to spend more time with people who you love and then you start to kind of say, okay, now I got to, like whatever I was, you know, when I was a kid, I guess I can say this now, you know, being 21, 22, and you're doing stand up, you run around, you get up anyway. anywhere, anywhere that they'll give you a microphone. You go to, you know, we do it anywhere. You know, at a restaurant, I used to live around the corner from a vintage shop, and I walked in a vintage shop and I go, you can do stand-up here. And then before you know it, we're doing a weekly show in the middle of the clothing racks. You know, anywhere, you do four spots a night.

You just run around in your car. You time out the night, and that's all you're doing. And then now at this age, and, yeah, I'm married, and I want to spend more time with my wife, with my parents, with, you know, then you start to go, yeah, that's not, I just, I'd love to get up and do stand-up. It's so amazing to be in front of a crowd and have hundreds of people just laugh at you immediately. But you go, now I'm not going to do that. You know, I can't. Yeah.

Okay. Last round, beliefs. One, two, or three. One. Have you ever tried to force a belief? Yeah. I mean, I've, I have. I've tried to force.

I think I've tried to, like, force, like, that, that, like, a regular schedule will work for me. You know, like, I've read all those things about routine and habit. And for many years, I've really tried to force this idea that I got to do the same thing every day, even though there's nothing about how my life is designed that would actually allow that. You ever read those self-help, like, the morning makes you a man or whatever? Like any of these books that are like wake up. But yes. You need to sleep four hours and then sleep another three or like, I don't know.

And then like, you know, so I was going through this whole like you try something and you're on it for like two weeks and then it just kind of combusts. And then, you know, you're just eating Wendy's at 10 p.m. And you're like, that was not in the book. You know, and I've only recently started to kind of say, you know what, man, I don't know. I know the things I got to do and they might happen at the same time they might not I just always felt like it's like there's like a structure that's evading me or something and now

I'm saying no what if it's just this is let me just be with however it is and try to be okay with that and be okay with that yeah you know yeah three more cards one two three three have you made peace with mortality

Um, more than ever. But, you know, I don't know. There's just really, you know, one of my favorite Sufi concepts is to die before you die. You know, which is to be at peace with the fact that you will, which is to actually have that inner feeling of you've, tamed your ego to the point that you've actually, this is an incredibly hard thing to do, but you actually kill your ego while you're still alive. That's very aspirational in a way that I'm super attracted to.

Actually, just a couple of weeks ago, we buried my grandfather. And that was, and he was the last grandparent that we had. And so it's just that inevitable thing where you just feel that it's like, not only is he gone, but everyone just kind of moves up a slot. You know, I mean, in like what you think is going to, you know, because these things are unpredictable. I mean, it's like, you know, no one has an actual clock on when it'll happen. But looking at patterns, everyone kind of moves up a slot.

And then you go, oh, wow, you know, okay. And then you start to think about death. Like, I did have this weird thing. Like, after I got married, I started thinking about death a lot. because I went, and I know it sounds funny or it sounds like I'm in this, like it's like a bad thing, but it was more just a really logical thing because I was like, I just did this really adult thing. Yeah. I cannot tell myself that I'm just this like kid on the come up anymore. I'm a married man.

What would have married men do? They have kids. Eventually they die. They have jobs and they die. Whoa, I'm thinking about death a lot, you know. But it was really beautiful because it, it. there's nothing more real. And so I love it.

You know, I have an uncle who, you know, he's very involved in the Muslim community. And if anybody dies, it's not even anyone that he knows. He goes. And he's like, hey, you guys need help? Can I come just do the prayer? Because he's like, he likes that reality check. And he likes to be in a room with people who are in a very real state of mind. Because when you talk to people at a funeral, it's like, that's a good convo.

Because everyone's, you know, I mean, it could be a very sad one. But if you can have like a good conversation, you go, oh, whoa, we're. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You don't need shrooms. You're getting right to the core of everything, you know. And I think that's really interesting. What do you think happens after you die?

A lot. Do you? I think, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I think. I've been on a string of conversations with people who are just like, Nothing. Nothing happens. It's the end. This is just the beginning.

Ooh. Right now is just the beginning. I think a lot happens. I think if this is the end, then I actually don't know how anyone can live with how much suffering and how much inequality that there is. And I think it's, to me, the more I live, it feels like the only thing that makes sense. Can I push you gently on that? Like, do you actually think that... Push me even more. Do you actually think consciousness will exist beyond your physical form?

Like when you say it's the beginning, you do. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Like, not as, like, the tech bro freezing your consciousness and tapping it into, like, some matrix. You believe that spiritual. I mean, I think, I think that's the hilarity, too, of, like, the longevity movement. And it's kind of, because it's, it's, it's, we're in such a, we're, we're, we're so trapped by only believing in, like, what we can see. see, but I think that the basis of any spiritual tradition that lives on earth, however you want to call it, the inner eye, God, you know, however people, you know, I obviously connect to it as a Muslim, but that consciousness is always about what you can't see. And that is only going to continue beyond this, you know. And so, and you feel, you know, I feel it. I feel it with, you know, family who's past and I feel it, you know,

All the time, these relationships continue and actually feel them. Yeah. I do. I definitely have had that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I can hear people listening to this being like, but what? But what is he talking about? Like where –

It's the thing we were talking about earlier where it's like, you know, like, why was our dog crying, you know? Why do you know things right before you know them, you know? And then it was like, oh, this is a little coincidence. And that's fine. If that's the level you want to tap into it. You know what I mean? So some people will hear like a good song and they'll go, that's a good song, I like it. Some people will go, why do I like that song?

And they'll really get into it. They'll go, well, it's because of the baseline. This guy studied piano over here. They're using these acoustics. It's the same thing. So you have all these frequencies of things that are happening. Most people like to go, huh, oh, coincidence. And then they just go to the deli and get a sandwich.

But if you really kind of look into it, you go, no, no, no, there's an unseen. There's a science to it. There's all these things that are there, and there are so many people on Earth who are really tapped into these things. And what's awesome about that whole conversation is they still don't know, but they know a lot. But no one here really knows. And I think that to me is almost the most unifying thing that we have as humans is that there's this whole other thing that we actually don't know yet. So we're all in this like unknowing together. And then I think that should create a lot of mercy, actually.

That was interesting. Do you think that there's a divinity, some divine power involved in all this? Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. It's like, come on. Yeah, yeah, of course. I don't, you know, I mean, I think like man in the sky or whatever is not the framework, right?

You know what it is? I have this thing that's so, I have this like gripe with Santa Claus. Because, you know, growing up in America, because you know what it is, it's like kids grow up believing in Santa Claus, like that this guy could come down the chimney. And so Santa Claus is actually presented to a child is this like metaphysical proposition that, hey, there is something out there that can break the rules of metaphysics and give you this gift of exactly what you want. And it's really hyped up. And then one day, hey, just so you know, none of that's true. So the idea of a metaphysical framework is shattered, right, for an entire generation, because Santa Claus ruined this kind of transcendence.

Because everyone's just like, nah, that stuff's not real. Like, I remember the Santa Claus lie. You know what I mean? So it's like, but let's just say you put that aside and you actually just realize that there is something going on that you will not grasp in its entirety. But if you get quiet, you're going to pick up on way more. than if you're kind of in this, like, fractured, you know, distracted place. Dude, that Santa Claus thing hit me deep.

Well, I'm a parent. And I'm also a parent who thinks a lot about my children's spiritual education. But now I'm, like, thinking about Santa Claus, and we did Santa Claus. And now I'm like, I just killed my children's sense of mystery in the universe and their ability to think outside of time and place. and connect to a higher being. He holds too much power. And he has nothing to do with Christianity even.

There's so much pressure. It's an industry. I, the Christian ladies say to the Muslim kids. Hey, listen, and there's a lot of pressure for Santa. But I think, by the way, I'll take Muslim pressure over Santa pressure. Yeah. Muslim pressure. We're just, you know.

That's saying some. That's just some real grit. Last question. One, two, or three. I'll do one. What truth guides your life more than any other? Love. Like, that actually love is at the core of everything.

Yeah. It is the most important thing. Everything leads back to it. You know, every good thing leads to it. And every bad thing is a lack of it. And I think that that's, it always helped. that one word always helps me reconnect. We talked so much about exhaustion.

This conversation, any time I'm trying to get out of that, if I can actually focus on that word, I can repair at least a bit. It's not like, oh, love, hey, you know, like suddenly. But I'm always thinking, like, about small bits of repair of whatever it is, and that is always the thing that helps me do that. And it is the most important thing.

And it is the, you know, yeah, I mean, it's the top feeling. We end the show the same way every time with a trip in our memory time machine. So in the memory time machine, you revisit one moment from your past. It is not a moment you would change anything about it. It's just a moment you would like to linger. in a little longer. Which moment do you choose? We,

this is such a great question. I've never thought about this. There's this, there's this photograph that I have. It's an old family photograph. When my sister and I were younger. And so my grandfather grew up in this, this village, you know, outside of Cairo.

and it's really what you think of when you think of a village. I mean, they're making food over a fire and there's wells and there's kind of these really kind of rough, it's a rough town in terms of how things are built, but in a way incredibly genius. Like they have exactly what they need, you know? But it's a pure village. And there's this photo of me and my sister, my mom and dad,

and just that entire section of the family. and we're like out in the sun and it's this old film photo that I look at and it would be cool to just do that day. Just go do that day as a kid consciously and just sit in all of that wisdom with all those people. None of those people are around now.

You know, and I think that, that would be, yeah, that would be a great use of the machine, you know. That and, like, the first time I watched The Sopranos, like, I think would also be, like, that first, like, I remember just being like, whoa, the Sopranos is the best show ever, right? So I think that would also, like, it would be that, and they're on the way back. On the way back, a little pit stop. Imagine the machine kind of like does a quick little, and I go, sick hatch, just like the first time you're like, oh my God, James Gandalfini, you know. Whoa.

You can see Rami Yusuf in Mountain Head, which comes out May 31st. Number one, Happy Family USA is out now. Rami, thank you so much. Thank you. This was awesome. If you liked that conversation, you should go back and check out my episode with Sterlin Harjo. He's the creator behind the show Reservation Dogs.

And a lot like Rami Yusuf, He has managed to navigate the pressures of representation with his own unique voice. He was a really lovely guest, and I highly recommend that episode. This episode was produced by Summer Tomad and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was mastered by Gilly Moon. Wildcard's executive producer is Yolanda Sangweni, and our theme music is by Romteen Arablewee. You can reach out to us at Wildcard at npr.org. We're going to shuffle the deck, and we will be back with more next week.

I'll talk to you then.