Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Taylor Tomlinson is fine with being 'perpetually afraid'

Episode Date: June 20, 2024

Taylor Tomlinson has found the kind of success many comedians dream about, with multiple Netflix specials and a late-night hosting gig — After Midnight on CBS. She tells Rachel that part of the secret to her success is fear. They also swap stories about their Christian upbringings, the search for validation and getting things stuck up their noses.To listen sponsor-free, access bonus episodes and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcard See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Does the idea of an infinite universe excite you or scare you? Depends on the day. You know, growing up in church, so much of your life is focused on knowing exactly what happens when you die and making sense of it all. And here's the book and it tells us everything. I found a lot of freedom in deciding that I didn't know and was never going to know. I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard. The game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest chooses questions at random.

from a deck of cards. Pick a card one through three. Questions about the memories, insights, and beliefs that have shaped them. As an adult, it's easy to feel sad and hopeless and scared. My guest today is comedian Taylor Tomlinson. And I think when you are a kid, you're obviously more naive, but I think being naive can be good. Usually when I watch stand-up comedy, there is a safe layer of remove.

Like the situations they're describing of stories they're telling happen to some. someone else, right? I don't relate, but I get why it's funny. When I watched Taylor Tomlinson for the first time, I laughed in the way that only happens when you have lived the joke, but you couldn't see the funny. And when Taylor points it out, it's a special kind of hilarious that comes with a good dose of perspective. This is a long-winded way of saying that Taylor Tomlinson makes me feel seen deeply. Conservative Christian upbringing, check. Dead mom, check. Bad dating history? Check. Host a sort of fake game show. Check. Took yourself to the ER because you thought you swallowed an air pod or in my case a nose ring. Check. How could I not invite Taylor Tomlinson to play

our game? Her newest Netflix specialist called Have It All. She's also the host of the CBS late night show after midnight. Taylor, welcome to Wildcard. Oh my gosh, thank you for having me. First off, are we the same person? I can't believe that list. I mean, we might be. You're way, way funnier than I am and younger and cuter. But besides that, yes. No, no, definitely not cuter. I'm certainly dumber. That's for sure. Also, I have to hear the nose ring story. Okay. I thought, I thought you might ask. So I'm trying to think of the short way to say this. But when in your comedy special, you talk about falling asleep and thinking that you swallowed an AirPods. And I'm watching this. I'm like traumatized again because here's the short version.

I'm embarrassed to admit, I bought on Amazon a magnetic nose ring, right? And I had it. I was putting it in. And then my kid said something funny. And I inhaled it up my nose and could not find it. And convinced myself that it had lodged up like in my nasal cavity or in my brain. Obviously. To the point where my husband got this huge industrial magnet and we tried to lure it out. And it didn't work. So I went to the ER. I was the great. crazy person in the ER trying to convince them that I had maybe inhaled slash swallowed my nose ring. Did they do x-rays? Oh yeah. They totally took x-rays, but they took them like of my chest or my stomach. They did not understand what my story was. And then I just snuck out. Like after the x-rays, I was just mortified and I just left. That's so funny because I was also, that was how I was going into it too. I'm like, can you guys just do some x-rays? Like I just need to know. I'm probably wrong, but just do some x-rays. And they were like, all right. And luckily my youngest sister found the AirPod at home before we got those x-rays done.

And then I didn't even want to tell anybody I was going to leave. I'm like, let's just sneak out. I'm so embarrassed. That is what I did. I did not check out. It was just like I started to feel so guilty because there were other people. You know, it's an ER in D.C. It's crowded.

And I was just like, you know what? Let's just forget this happened. I'm sorry I took up your time. And if it's in my brain, we're just going to deal with those repercussions when they manifestly. Yeah, yeah, it's fine. So funny. Yeah, people's bones are just coming out of their leg and you're like, I just, do you have a bigger magnet? We tried at home with ours, but they only go so big with a take-home magnet. God, that's so funny. That makes me feel, that makes me feel so seen. So I've got a deck of cards in front of me. Each one has a question on it. I'm going to hold up three

cards at a time, and you are going to choose one at random to answer. There are two rules. You get one skip. If you use your skip, I'll swap in another question from the deck. Okay. Okay. And you get one to flip. So you could put me on the spot and ask me to answer one of the questions before you do.

You still got to answer it. But I'll just do it first. Okay. If you're so inclined. Okay. We're breaking it up into three rounds, memories, insights, and beliefs with a few questions in each round. Okay. Okay.

Because it's a game. There's a prize at the end. Okay, with that, ready? Yes. Let's do it. First three cards were in the memories round. One, two, or three? One.

One. What's a moment from your childhood when you realized you wanted to make different choices than your parents? Ooh. I mean, I do think growing up, my parents had gotten married in their early 20s before they finished college. and never really encouraged that would say things like, wait till you're 27 to get married. You don't have to get married while you're still in school. Like, finish school, live a little life, and then get married.

But even then I don't know that I felt that way because I did really want to be married when I was little. So I think that if I had met the person I thought was my person at, you know, 20, which of course we all did and we were wrong. But if I had wanted to get married at 20, I would have just done it. I wouldn't have said to myself, well, you got to wait. Remember, you need to make a different choice than your parents. Yeah. Although it must be said, you came from a super Christian conservative home and culture where people, I assume, like the when I grew up and got back, like maybe it wasn't 19, but maybe it was like 22.

Oh, yeah. When people got married. Oh, yeah. So it was a lot of your, a lot of your peers, I imagine, did that. Well, it's a wild thing to tell people, hey, you should wait to get married, but also don't have sex until you're married. And you're like, you've got to pick one. Everybody. Like, do you want me to wait?

Or do you want me to wait to get married? Do you want me to wait to have sex? What's the choice here? Although I will say that going back to religion, I think that was an example of a different choice. I was making than my parents and my family. Yeah, that's a big one. That's a huge one, yeah, where you sort of gradually come to the realization that this isn't right for you or it's not necessarily what you believe.

But when your whole family believes this thing, it is very hard to accept that you don't feel that way because you're afraid of being isolated and ostracized from your family. At least that was my experience. I don't know what your experience was. Yeah, my distancing myself from that came. a lot later, like as an adult. When I was, when I was young, I was like all in. And mine, my experience wasn't as extreme as yours, I think, we could say. I mean, the, and I shouldn't put words in your mouth, but you came from a really evangelical Christian culture that did not

allow for a lot of individual choice. Is that fair to say? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Super fair. Yeah. Okay. I feel like there's more to plumb. We're going to move on. Oh, my gosh. Look, you and I could talk about religion for hours, I'm sure. Whenever you find people who also grew up that way, truly, how much time do you have? How much time do we have? Yeah. How much time do we have? Okay. Three more cards. One. Two or three. One. What do you admire about your teenage self?

Ooh, what a good question. I admire how hopeful she was. I think that a lot of teenagers are probably like this, but I think she really believed in her future. I think at the time I was really unhappy and really struggling with depression and anxiety and a whole host of other things. But my head felt like a very safe place to go to.

Like it felt like it felt like my imagination was very rich and fulfilling. And I felt very hopeful about the future and excited and inspired by that. That's been something that I've lately been really trying to get back to about myself. is just the confidence and setting your expectations high, not letting other people limit them, or what do you mean? Not even confidence. I think just hopefulness, maybe a little bit of delusion as well. Yeah. I think as an adult, sometimes you feel sort of bogged down by everything. it's easy to feel sad and hopeless and scared.

And I think when you are a kid, you're obviously more naive. But I think being naive can be good. Okay, we've got to take a quick break. But when we come back, Taylor talks about an emotion. She understands well. I think that I, at my core, I'm a very fearful person. Round two is insights, stuff you're working on now, lessons you're learning today. Okay?

Three new cards. One, two, or three? Let's do three. Oh, I like this one. What emotion do you understand better than all the others? Oh. I'm going to use my flip. I would love to hear what your answer is.

Did I stump you? Are you excited to answer it? I just, I like this question, but I haven't worked out why. I love it so much. It's a good question. Okay. So I guess what I'm going to answer is going to make people think that I'm a, like someone who rages. But I guess it's the verb understand because I think I understand anger. I'm not, I don't think people would describe me as an angry person. I feel a lot, the other emotions are primary in my life. I'm really good at joy. I'm like very good at gratitude.

I'm, you know, I'm not like some angry person. But having said that, I do get angry. And sometimes it's like a little flash. and especially when I had really young kids, this thing would come up in me and I'd be like, whoa, what was going on there? What is that? And now when I read stories about people or just when I see someone have like a flash, I try not to judge them by that moment. And I try to think about the broader context of their life because I've definitely got to. I've definitely got to. and angry in a way that made me feel a little bit ashamed before. So I guess I think about anger a lot. And I don't know. I think that helps me understand it maybe.

Yeah. That's my answer. That's a great answer. That makes a lot of sense. What you got? I think mine is fear. I think that I, at my core, I'm a very fearful person. and have just learned to get comfortable with sort of being perpetually afraid,

which is all anxiety is, is just constant fear. It's a constant hum of fear. Getting up on a stage is that just like the thing that helps you not be afraid? Because it's so frightening to the rest of us civilians to think about making yourself vulnerable in that way. that seems very scary to do what you do. Because it's not just the getting up on stage, Taylor, but you really do talk about all your stuff. Right.

Really painful things, you know? And that seems like it would be scary. It is. It's very scary. But you get so used to it, I think. And I was so scared of how I would feel if I didn't do it, that I think that helped me push through the stage fright. is I was afraid that I would get years down the road and go, man, I really wish I had pursued that,

or I wish I had done more with this potential I had, and I wish I'd developed this talent that might have taken me somewhere. And it certainly helps day to day, too, when people remind me how terrified they would be to go up in front of thousands of people, it does help empower me to do other things. where I go, why am I afraid to talk to somebody at the grocery store when I talked to 3,000 people last night? You know, like, it helps you. Well, I get that. Yeah. I get that.

I mean, because they're just like a bunch of people in an auditorium who are mostly think you're awesome. Right. They bought a ticket to see you. But the person at the grocery store, who knows? They're so close. You know what? You're right. I'm scared again.

No, you're right. You're so right. Okay. Three new cards. One, two, three. Let's see two. Two. What is something you still feel you need to prove to the people you meet? Well, my instinct is to say to prove that I'm funny, but I don't feel that I need to prove that to everyone I meet, which I think is different than when I was younger. I think when I was younger, probably I felt differently, but I don't really feel that way anymore. I don't know. I want people to think I'm kind.

which can be a hard thing to prove. Yeah, but that's different. What I hear you saying is you're actually in a pretty comfortable place because I think that question plays off insecurities, right? Something that you still feel insecure about that you have to prove otherwise. And I'm not hearing that in how you're answering it. So that's pretty good. That is good. Wow, this is like a therapy session.

This is so nice. I'm going to fire my therapist. This is lovely. There's nothing that I feel like I need to prove it to everyone I meet. There are certain things I want to prove to different people. Like, people I work with, I want to prove that I'm kind and hardworking. You know, people I'm performing for, I want to prove that I'm funny. Like, there's...

What about relationships? Oh, oh, I mean, that's a great point. I mean, in romantic relationships, I certainly want to prove that I'm... worthy and worth the effort. So we really hit on something there. Well done. Well done, Rachel. It's like, you know what you're doing. I was like, I don't know. I don't feel the need to prove anything. You're like, what about in relationships? I was like, oh, God, that's right. Sorry, man, but you put it all out of your specials. You're right. You're right. I was like, never mind. You know, in relationships, I definitely feel the need to prove myself. I think, and I think I'm different now. I think I've worked on it a lot.

and I think I'm in a much healthier place with it now, but I do think for years I've definitely felt that I'm trying to prove myself in relationships and not in one way or not trying to prove one thing about myself. I'm just trying to prove that I'm worthy of love, which is not super healthy because we're all worthy of love. All right. Plus it can tend to make you self-sabotage, right?

Absolutely. Not quite sure I'm worthy, so I'm just going to bail on this. situation before you figure out the whole thing. Well, because if you don't self-sabotage and it doesn't work out, then it's easy to come to the conclusion that you're like, even my best isn't good enough, you know, like even when you have no regrets about how you handled something, if something doesn't work out, despite the reasons, it's easy to go to that place of, wow, my best isn't good enough, even though the The truth of the matter is it just wasn't the right fit or the right combination of people for success.

We've got another short break, but when we return, Taylor talks to me about what it was like to leave her Christian faith. It's a gradual process, I think, falling out of love with a religion. You have round three to go. Beliefs. Okay, this is how you see the world. Which round do you think is the hardest? This one. This one. Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

I mean, sometimes I think it's two because it's things you're learning in real time. But I think you in particular, you work all this stuff out anyway. It is your work to think about the lessons that you keep on learning. Like, that's what you make your comedy out of. That's true. So I don't know that that's necessarily. I don't know. We'll see.

We'll see. We're not done yet. Who knows? We'll take stock at the end. Maybe it'll be like, beliefs, a piece of cake, slice of pie. Here we go. Three new cards. Oh, the cards are red now.

Does that feel scary? It does. I think it's a warm red, though. Okay. It's inviting. It's inviting. One, two, three. One.

One. Does the idea of an infinite universe excite you or scare you? Depends on the day. Depends on the day. And where I'm at in my life. I think when I was younger, the idea of infinity really freaked me out. And as I've gotten older, I kind of go back. and forth. You know, growing up in church, so much of your life is focused on knowing exactly what

happens when you die and making sense of it all. And here's the book and it tells us everything. And there was a lot of, I found a lot of freedom in deciding that I didn't know and was never going to know. And so there was no point trying to figure it out. I think today it, it, Today it excites me. So I must be in a good place this morning. Yeah. But did you always feel that way? I mean, you didn't.

No. You believed in the heaven, in the hell, and the God and the creation. And so when you made that pivot, was that scary? Yeah. Oh, at the beginning, for sure. I mean, it's a gradual process, I think, falling out of love with a religion. I think it's really hard to accept and you go back and forth for years and you have to constantly work on it and sit with some really uncomfortable feelings.

Yeah. For me it was the falling out of love when you don't have something to replace it with immediately. Yeah. And then that feels empty. Yeah. Three more cards. Okay. Okay.

One, two, three, still in beliefs. Three. How do you stay connected to people you've lost? I think you have to, do you mean people who have died or just people you've lost touch with? I know, we say loss. I mean, you can interpret it however you want to. Yeah, I should say that. What am I talking about? It means dead. It means dead. What does it mean? Like, I lost touch with my second grade teacher. Right. And I stalk her on Facebook.

Right. That's so funny. I know now. You don't have to lose touch with anybody because of social media. Right, you don't. Yeah, no, I think, especially since we're both in the dead mom club, as they call it, I think just talking about them and asking people who knew them longer than you for stories and people who knew them in different ways than you, how they knew them. And if you are so inclined creatively, writing about those people and finding ways that your similar them or different than them or even like what they would think of movies and TV shows that are

coming out like yeah you know like I think my mom would have really liked substack like you know like it's like I remember talking to my grandma once and we're like she'd probably have a blog right like it's just even stuff like that what do you share in common with your mom you were young when she died, but what do people tell you about how she shows up in you? She loved to write, and I think I have that. I mean, I have three siblings, and two of us look like my dad and the middle two look more like our mom, and I was always so jealous that I didn't look like my mom. Me too. My mom was the pretty one of between her and my dad. I got my dad's looks, too.

Yeah. Yeah. I know, and it's so funny because it's such a specific thing. not to hurt our dad's feelings. I know. It's like I'm sure both our dads are handsome as well. But I, yeah, I always wanted to have more in common with her. But, you know, she was an extrovert. I'm not an extrovert. Like, I had a lot.

I was really insecure about the fact that I didn't have more in common with her. She was very charismatic and smart and funny. And I just, I didn't feel that I had those things. Well, I mean, Taylor. charismatic, smart and funny. I mean, we're doing a real good impression of it now. But isn't that all what it is? I know.

You just imitate it until it becomes you. And then it is you. Yeah. I feel like she, this is sort of sad, but I felt like because she died so young, she died when she was 34 and she was sick like the last two years. So she got sick at 32, I think. And she had kids really young. And so when she died, I was like, wow, what a, what a waste, you know, what a waste of such an

amazing person and just taken way too soon and all this talent and creativity that I have scraps of. And so that's probably a big reason why I've tried to stretch those scraps as far. as I can and have been able to, you know, with the help of Netflix. But I had like a moment maybe a year ago where I was like, man, I've really pushed the bits of her I got to the limit because in some ways I just feel that I'm the unrealized potential that she didn't get to realize, which is. So sad. What was your mom's name?

Angela. I think Angela would be into substack, and she would be into Taylor Tomlinson for sure. I hope so. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Maybe she wouldn't. Maybe she'd be like, you're kind of a hack. I don't know. She'd be like a heckler at all these shows.

She's like, I don't get it. Taylor, you won the game. I did. Beaudit. Does anyone ever lose? No. Not yet. You never know.

Okay, so no. You won the game. So because of this, you get a prize, and the prize is a trip in our memory time machine. Oh, my gosh. Here we go. You get to go back in time to a moment in your past that you wouldn't change anything about. You would just like to hang out there and linger a little longer. Which moment do you choose?

Well, it should be something I can't experience again, right? Because that would be a waste. Yeah, yeah. And I don't want to go back to something that will make me super sad. Mm-hmm. Ooh. I mean, the most obvious answer, because we've been talking about it so much, is I would just go back to, I would just go back to a day with my mom.

But I would probably pick a holiday. I would probably pick Christmas because it was just such a full, joyful feeling of like all getting together at my grandparents' house. And it's back when I enjoyed church. Like when I think about positive feelings towards church, they all happened before my mom died. And probably because when my mom died, I was like, I don't know about this anymore. But I remember feeling very comforted by church and feeling like that was a very consistent presence in my life when I was really young. And again, my whole family was religious, so it all just felt very, it all felt very safe. Did your mom have her favorite Christmas song? That's a great question for me to call my aunt or my grandma after this and ask them,

Honestly, I know that she and my aunt used to sing that sister's song from a white Christmas. But you don't, in this Christmas memory, I guess I'm trying to place her doing something. She's not singing. I think everyone's just sitting around in my grandparents' living room, opening presents and talking and eating dessert. That's like sort of what I have in my head of like all the kids like playing around on the floor or. sitting on like my grandpa's lap and like listening to the adults talk and it would be great to go back to that moment now, especially being the age that they were and being able to hear what they were talking about.

You're basically telling me that you want to use the memory time machine to eavesdrop. Yes. That's cool. Yeah. I want to see what everybody was saying. Were they talking about me? Yes. Taylor Tomlinson, it has been such a pleasure to talk with you.

Thank you so much. This was so lovely. Thank you so much, Rachel. Next week on Wildcard, actor and producer Lena Waith plays the game. She's known for her work on shows like Master of Nun and the Shy. And Lena tells me she's working on humility. My least favorite thing is getting something wrong.

And that can be in many ways. You know, it'd be a relationship, you know, some trivia. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't want to get this wrong. I want to get it right. I know. It's like relationship, like taboos. You know what I mean.

This episode was produced by Lee Hale and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was fact-checked by Willchase and Greta Pittenger and mastered by Robert Rodriguez. Wildcard's executive producer is Beth Donovan. Our theme music is by Romteen Arablewee. You can reach out to us at wildcard at npr.org. We'll shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. See you then.