Wild Card with Rachel Martin - Terry Crews likes feeling small in the universe

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

Terry Crews went to college on an art scholarship, played football in the NFL, and now stars in movies and hosts America's Got Talent. The key to his many successes, he says, is to be really good at failure. Or, put another way, to be a lobster. He tells Rachel about getting cut from the NFL, staying up all night drawing as a kid, and how Bear Grylls helped him appreciate his place in the universe. To listen sponsor-free, access bonus episodes and support the show, sign up for Wild Card+ at plus.npr.org/wildcard See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

What was a disappointing experience that now feels like a blessing? Wow. I guess the NFL. Because I was all over the place. I was on six teams and seven years. Rams, Packers, Chargers, Eagles. I wanted to be a star. And it all ended unceremoniously. I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wild Card,

the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest chooses questions at random from a deck of cards. Pick a card one through three. Questions about the memories, insights, and beliefs that have shaped them. There's stuff I got to do. There's stuff I wanted to continue. My guest this week is Terry Cruz. There's a whole list of dreams that I haven't done yet.

Okay, I need to start this introduction with an admission. I cry easily. Always have been that way. But I'm a specific kind of crier, the kind that is easily manipulated by TV producers. Those people totally know what they're doing when they make the little athlete profiles during the Olympics. All summer, I'd be scrolling through channels, get stuck on one of these video biographies, and boom. Fine, now I am canceling my Friday night plans to watch the gold medal archery round. But the fast track to a good cry for me is a reality talent show. They are

so good at getting you stuck into a contestant's backstory. And I have to say, America's Got Talent is top for me right now because they're... They have something none of the other shows have. Terry Cruz. Terry is the host of the show, and there's just something about the way he cheers for these contestants that gets me every time. When one of them is ready to go out there on stage and they are nervous and he tells them that he loves them, I don't think it's fake.

He's already invested in them. He wants them to shine. I think in that moment he does love them. It's sort of a bizarre role for a guy who used to knock people to the ground as a linebacker in the NFL. And sure, we all contain multitudes. but Terry Cruz is more multitudinous than most. You know, the guy actually went to college on an art scholarship, but then he walked onto the football team and went into the NFL.

Ultimately, it wasn't for him, and he became an actor. He's been in tons of movies, including cult favorites, White Chicks and Idiocracy. He co-starred in the comedy series Brooklyn Nine-Nine, and everybody hates Chris, which is getting a reboot. And yeah, he's the guy cheering for you. From just behind the curtain, when you're about to do a really hard thing.

That's how I like to think of them anyway. Terry Cruz, welcome to Wild Guard. Hey, how you doing? I'm good. I love that intro. That was good. I'm so happy to have you here. I mean, my kids are so happy I'm talking to you.

I didn't even mention that you used to host Ultimate Beast Master, which for them is like, you know, the tops. That's so good. I've got a deck of cards in front of me. Each one has a question on it. I'm going to hold up three cards at a time, And you will pick one at random to answer. Okay.

You have two tools at your disposal. You get one skip. Okay. So if you're just not feeling a question, you can just say skip. Okay. I will replace it with another one in the deck. Okay. The second tool at your disposal is a flip.

You can put me on the spot and ask me to answer the question before you do. Okay. We're breaking it up into three rounds with a few questions in each round. and we'll kind of get deeper as we go. Got it. All right, round one. You ready? Ready.

Okay. Three cards. One, two, or three? Two. Where did you go when you needed to escape as a teenager? Oh, that's good. Where did I go? You know, now I know.

Okay. I would go to my best friend Darwin, and he had a basement and his parents were never, ever home. Because I was surrounded by nothing but people. And everyone was everywhere. And it was a very small house. And I, as a teenager, I would,

there were times I remember running over to my best friend's house, Darwin, and getting in his basement. And that's where we would spend most of our time. It was break dancing. You know, it was one of those. paneled basements like in the Midwest. Oh, yeah. I love a paneled basement.

You know what I mean? Yes, totally. Mine had green shag carpet. I love that. Yes. Yes. And you had, you know, we would watch movies. We eat donuts.

This is in Flint, right? This is Flint, Michigan. But also there was a lot of escaping because it was very violent at the same time. You know, the quack epidemic had hit Flint, Michigan at the same time as the decline of the auto industry, so it became a very, very toxic place to live. Like, you know, we grew up in the hood and that was, you know, that was our escape because we didn't, we were really trying to figure out how to be men, you know, what is being a man all about? And it was wild because my, I had a lot of problems with my father and like I said, his father was never there. Like they were around,

but they just never were home. So I made, we made a vow that, listen, if you, if you, find out something that I don't know, you know, you promise me you'll tell me. And if I find out something you don't know, I promise to tell you. What do you mean? Something you don't know about something that was... Just about being a man, about being life, about everything, you know. We didn't even know that our grades were accumulative. You know what I mean? Like from ninth grade all the way to senior year, we were thinking, oh yeah, you can have a bad year. Everything's come back. But then we found out, oh, no, that's your acute. There's an accumulative. of grade point average.

Right, they don't forget. Oh, snap. We got to be good all the time. These little facts. That's such a bummer. You know what? Oh, yeah. I mean, stuff about girls and stuff about, you know, just anything that, just give me

some fact, because let me tell you, we would literally ask grown men, and they would say, ah, you're going to find out. And we'd be like, okay, you know. But you're like, hey, we're 13 years old. Like, help us. And they wouldn't do it. There was a lot of the... But one thing I realized, as I got older, they didn't know.

Yeah. So that was the way of discovering. So that was a really great escape for me. In that basement, just some of the best times in my life. We're going to go to three more cards. Still in the first round. One, two, or three? One.

One. What's something a parent figure taught you to appreciate? Hmm. You know, my mother always told me before she passed, she said, Terry, never forget you're an artist. You're an artist, number one, before anything, before everything, you're an artist. And that has really, it's colored everything that I've ever done. it's probably one of the most beneficial piece of advice I've ever received

because when you do things like an artist, it transcends. Like, you know, you can mow the lawn. But when you mow the lawn like an artist, you become a landscaper. You know what I mean? You know, it's the two ways to look at it. Totally. That's your palette.

That's your easel. That's your blank canvas. Yeah. One thing I'm not. I discovered is focus and interest create energy. And that's what art does because you're always focusing in something very interesting. And other people will look at it and be very bored. Like, what are you doing or whatever? You know, some sculpture or some painting or some drawing, but that focus and energy energizes you. And it's super special. It's like making the mundane

magnificent. When did you start drawing? Like how did that even come about to you? Well, this same mom was very religious. I was not allowed to do a lot of things when I was young. But I'll never forget my friends would, they could go to the movies and I couldn't when I was young. Because your mom saw that as crossing some dangerous Rubicon. Exactly. It was just movies were the devil's things. Right.

Now, she came out of that later. but the first 12 years of my life, it was like that. And what happened was kids would talk about the movies and I couldn't see them, but what I would do is go home and draw what I thought they were. Wow. And I would draw what jaws may look like or I would draw these things that they would always talk about.

I would spend hours and hours just drawing. I'll never forget when I was a kid, especially on weeks. weekends, I could draw all night long. I'll never forget, I would just be drawing and drawing. And an opposite, I'd see a look up and the sun would come up. And you're like, the sun's coming. Whoa. That's how focused I was and lost in a drawing. And you just get, it's just things where you just get consumed by it. And the skill kept getting better and better. And I love that your answer to the question, right? The question was what did a parent or a parent figure teach you to appreciate?

And it sounds like your mom taught you to appreciate yourself. Yes. Like you as an artist, yourself as an artist. I remember taking those drawings and showing her, and she was so proud, like, how are you doing this? You know, and even as I went on, even as I played sports and the whole thing, she's like, don't you forget. don't you forget you're an artist because she remembers when I was five and handing up pictures of people and things she was really impressed in a moment Terry reckons with being an empty nester okay before we get to round two I want to take a minute to talk about what you've been working on

which is a complicated question because you are working on a million things that's a million things I want to focus though on everybody still hates Chris this is an animated reboot of Everybody Hates Chris, the sitcom. It was an autobiographical retelling of Chris Rock's childhood and early years. And you played Chris's dad, Julius, Julius Rock. And now it's back in this new form. It's beautiful because, you know, the show ended a while back. I mean, this was almost 20 years ago.

I can't believe that. Which is unbelievable. Yeah. And we weren't done. We did four seasons. And, you know, season four, we were so excited because we felt like we could come back and we weren't picked up. And that's one of those heartbreaking, like, oh, we didn't get to finish the story, you know. And now to be resurrected this way, it's beautiful.

And we did 20 episodes and I'm so happy to be able to, you know, to revisit a character that I did so long ago and that's so beloved by so many. That's very, very rare, especially for an actor to get that shot. All right. We're moving to round two. All right. We're getting deeper as we go. Three new cards. All right.

One, two or three? Let's go with two. Two. What was a disappointing experience that now feels like a blessing? Hmm. Disappointing experience. Wow. I guess the NFL.

Hmm. You know, my whole seven years in the NFL, I would call it a disappointment in that because I was all over the place. I was on six teams and seven years. I read that. That's a lot of moving. It was. Rams, Packers, Chargers, Eagles, all with my wife and kids, two kids at the time. It was just crazy.

Like, we were living out of suitcases. We didn't know what was going on. And everyone thinks this whole, you know, sports is. It's so glamorous or whatever. It just wasn't. It was a grind. It was like a circus. You know, my wife and I did not know what was going to happen to us next year.

Like we had no idea whether you were going to be a team, whatever. But it was a disappointment because I saw myself, I said, I wanted championships. I wanted to be a star. I wanted to. And it all ended unceremoniously. When I got cut for the six, seven time. and I was just trying to find where we were going to do. And it was just such a hurt.

Because my brain was all on still being a football player. And then when it stopped, it was like, what do I do now? I don't know. And that's the hardest thing. There's a depression that came with it and all this. But when I look back, what a blessing because, you know, it got me ready for entertainment. It got me ready for the audition process. Yeah.

Because every time you walk into an audition room, you don't know what's going to happen. and they can be like, you're not for us, and you've got to get over that? The phrase I always, people call it like you've got to fail to succeed. But, you know, there's another kind of example of this that I heard. I really think it's even better. You know, like lobsters, they do a thing called molting, whereas the shell breaks, and they outgrow the shell, and they're vulnerable. But what happens is they're growing and the shell regrows bigger.

Uh-huh. And I've said, I am like this. molting. Like, what happens is you're growing. You break the shell, but it's painful. Yeah. The NFL was a version of me molting into a new person. Now, I mean, you're also very vulnerable in each time. Oh, totally. You know what I mean? Like, what? Don't touch that. Yeah. Yeah. And I have the weirdest visual in my mind right now of like this little naked lobster. Yes. And it's like so scared of what's going to happen. But that's us. We're all little naked lobsters right now.

But we're growing our shell. Yeah. The shells come. Yeah. And the shell is getting bigger. Yeah. And you have to do that to grow. Yeah.

Okay. Little lobster. I got it. You got a red shirt on right now? I know. That's what I mean. And I have a red t-shirt on. It's perfect.

We're lobsters. I like it. I feel like it. It's a very cool animal to kind of emulate. I'm into it. Okay. Three new cards. All right.

One, two, or three. Let's go with three. Three. What have you learned to be careful about? I'm going to flip this one. Oh, are you? Ooh. What are you?

What have I learned to be careful about? What have I learned to be careful? I have learned to be careful about emoting all over the place. Oh, that's good. Because it feels sort of like a privilege to be able to. to feel, to, to, to express your emotions all the time. Mm-hmm. And you can, you can tell yourself a little lie that I'm just living in my truth and this is how I feel and I feel like this.

And so I want to be like this. And that's just real. Except it can, it trickles down to everybody around you. Yep. And there are consequences to your feelings. Yep. Especially, I think, especially in a role of leadership. Yeah.

You know, sometimes you just have to be the confident, cool leader. Yeah, just keep it together. Or as a parent, you know, I have so many feelings all the time. And my kids don't need the full range. I'm good at showing them how to emote. It's not that I don't. It's like too much sometimes. And, you know, I don't need to show them all my sads.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. They need me to be, they need me to be their mom. And yes, that sometimes means being sad and joyful and angry and stressed and all the emotions. But I'm just, I don't know, I'm learning to be more careful. I'm learning to be more aware of how I deploy those and how it can affect other people. You know, that's really good.

I think for me, I definitely see what you're saying. I think for me, just let my silence tell it, you know, emote for me. Because sometimes if you put a voice to it all the time, that takes people out. You know what I mean? If you say you're dissatisfied all the time or you talk about how you're feeling all the time, I'm learning to be quiet. You know what I mean? So is that yours too?

Is that a thing that you're looking at I think it's great. I think everything doesn't need a hot take. Right. You know what I mean? My hot take is like, whoa, stop. That's part of emoting. You know what I mean?

Because it's hot. Right. Sometimes you've got to be cool. Right. And I run hot. Yeah. Me too. I get it.

I get it. That's really good. And we can just turn the temperature down sometimes. That's it. Okay. Did you answer that question? I'm not sure. No, no, I just kind of tailed in that. You sailed on. Okay, I see you. All right. Next question. One, two, three.

One. Next set of questions. Okay. One. What's something you think about differently than you did 10 years ago? Ooh. Oh, I think much differently about entertainment that I did to do. years ago. You know, let me correct that. Okay.

I think differently about success more than I did 10 years ago. Ten years ago, there was a picture of success that I thought this is what this means to be successful. And what did that look like? It's all about accomplishments, all about, you got the number one movie and the number one show and the number one this and you got all this together. And now I look at happiness and success as acceptance. This is another thing.

I think what's also triggering it is the fact that we're empty nesters. You know. Five kids. Five. And our 19-year-old went off into college, and we were like, it's over. Like, wait. And me and my wife. were looking at each other, like, did we enjoy that?

Yeah. You know what I mean? Because you were, also, you should say, you were a parent, young, both of them. Yeah, very young, very young. We married 35 years. My oldest daughter is 37 years old. She was two when we got married. And, oh, my goodness, we're like, did we, you know, because you're always thinking about

there, like, we got to get the kids here, we got to get, we got to, now we did that. And you're like, oh, my God, did we enjoy this? did the sunset. Ten years ago, it was just about and now it's just like, okay, I want to sit with them. I want to talk with them. I want to, we just, now, you're adults now. Let's do the slow burn.

And I'll find out what you like. Because before, it was a little bit like, you know, what are you trying to say, Dad, you know what I mean? Like, no, no, no, I want to hear you. Because you are an adult. All your choices are yours now. When we come back, Terry talks about experiencing awe. Okay, we're going three more.

Oh, yeah, this is the last round, by the way. Oh, okay, okay. So we're just, it's just, it's cruising. Yeah, here we go. I guess that was a pun. I didn't need to make that. One, two, or three. Let's go one again.

One. Okay, we're getting heavier, deeper. Deeper. How often do you think about death? I think about death a lot. Yeah? Yeah. I do. Being 56, I think about, but not in a bad way. I do think about dying. I do think about,

and I'm not scared of it at all because I've done, I do feel like I'm living, I'm living a dream. I'm living an absolute dream. My life is, I never thought it would be this good. I'll be honest. I mean, to have a beautiful wife and this beautiful family for so long and this career and do what I love and just, it's, it's, wow, you know, so some people never get this, never, ever, and they slog through and it's hard. But I also am like, there's stuff I got to do. There's stuff I wanted to continue. You know what I mean? Like, there's a whole list of dreams. that I haven't done yet. Do you have like a crazy one?

Like what's a thing that you want it? You know, the craziest thing is I want a working farm. Oh, do you? Yes. Do you want it or do you want to work it? I want it. I want a staff on it. And I want to work it when I want to.

That's right. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm going to the garden with the people who know how to do gardening and I'm going to just all up. That's right. You know what I mean? I'm going to the. the barn where the cows are, where the person who knows how to do cows and work cows and get milk and I can occasionally go get milk myself.

That's right. That's right. And you will smell the manure. Yes. And you will feel at one with the earth. I want all of it. That's right. And other people will help you achieve that dream.

I want chickens and I want to walk among them. And then at night I want fried chicken. Right. You know what I mean? Don't name your chickens then. No, no, I won't name them. No, no, that'll be very anonymous. That's too close. They'll be very anonymous.

Notice chickens. Also, you know, it's a place where you can bring kids and bring people and bring, you know, a lot of kids from inner city and have them play and fun. It's like Terry's Farm, you know. You know, my people are farmers. I can't farm. Wow. Listen, it's a skill. Yeah.

No. I can't grow a cactus. Okay. Three more. One, two, three. Three. Three. Where have you experienced awe?

Where? Oh, man, when I went to Iceland. I went to Iceland. I actually went to Iceland to do the Bear Grill show. Oh, did you really? Yeah. I mean, what was insane, they took us on a helicopter up to this mountain on top of a volcano and dropped us off there. and I'm like, oh, my God.

It took everything I could do to hold on to the side of this mountain. I have to do this pause. Does everyone know what Bear Girls is for listeners who don't know? He's a survivalist. He takes you to the edge of the earth and you have deep meaningful conversation, but also you're like in the middle of nowhere. You're in the middle of nowhere. Like there's no, there's nothing.

And the helicopter flies away, right? Right. But let me tell you this. What blew my mind, I'm hanging on the side of this, mountain trying not to fall because it's really dangerous. Like, and I'm going, oh, they weren't kidding. And his camera crew is doing it backwards. And I'm going, hey, man, how?

What the sound man and the camera guy is hanging on the side of the mountain with me? Wait, was that your moment of awe when you like saw the crew? That was it. I was going, how the hell are you doing this, man? I thought you were going to talk about the sacred nature of the floors. that you saw. I wanted to mention bear grills crew. They left me in awe.

I was like, what? You guys are superheroes. What are you doing? Now, now, mind you, mind you, after filming, after we did our whole thing, I did get to sleep at the base of this volcano. And that was my nature all moment. And I had never done anything like that in my life.

And you're in Iceland. Like the sky is just, there's no streetlights or nothing. It's, like, you see galaxies, you know, and you're like, like if you literally, you're laying there looking up and you're going to fall in, that kind of thing. I've never experienced that. That was awesome. I felt like this small, you know what I mean?

Where you're just like, oh, my God, this world is so gigantic. And does that make you feel unsettled? or good? It makes me feel good. It makes you feel good to feel small in the universe. And I was, I felt grounded.

Like, here I am. I'm laying on a dirt. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, I'm, like, I'm part of this, you know. It was really cool.

Like, I, I, I just felt all about the power that's out there and all the things I don't know. It just made me so, I was filled with all. We end the conversation. The same way every time.

You take a trip in our memory time machine. Ooh. Okay. So we're going to go back to one moment in your past where you would not change anything. You don't want to change anything about this moment. You just want to linger there a little longer. What moment do you choose? Oh, that was great.

Man, the moment this came up. It was beautiful. Dodger Stadium. I don't even like baseball. I can't play it. Don't know it. Don't even know what the rules are. I'm at Dodger Stadium at a baseball game.

And my wife and I had just been regrouped. We rededicated ourselves. We had been married 20 years and almost broke up. But we had been through therapy and the whole thing, but we rededicated ourselves to each. each other. And she had just sang the national anthem. At the game, wow. But she comes off the field and the sun is going down.

And I'd never been happier. I was like, wow, like, we're going to do this. We're going to make it. It just made me go, I'm so thankful. I'm just, it was, my heart just exploded with full of gratitude for having my wife, for my family, for still being here and being able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be. to enjoy this moment, being able to enjoy this game, I don't even understand. It was just a full, like, wow, it was one of those all, it was a bit of an all moment. But, man, that's a great memory. Just a great memory. Terry Cruz, you can catch him in Everybody Still Hates Chris on Comedy Central. Terry, thank you, thank you for doing this. My pleasure. Thank you, Rachel.

If you like this episode, you should check out my conversation. with Ted Danson. Both he and Terry Cruz have become these warm and fuzzy figures in Hollywood, but like Terry, Ted has been through a lot of dark times, and he is really open about how much the darkness has informed his work and his outlook on life. So check that one out. Speaking of the dark parts of living, next week on Wildcard,

I talked to the author behind the Handmaid's Tale, Margaret Atwood, who despite conceiving of extremely bleak realities, isn't one to dwell on despair. Crisis, setbacks, very discouraging things. Yes, sure. Total despair. No. This episode was produced by Lee Hale,

with help from Romel Wood. It was edited by Dave Flanchard, fact-checked by Nicolette Kahn, and mastered by Robert Rodriguez. Wildcard's executive producer is Beth Donovan, and our theme music is by Romteen Arablewee. You can reach out to us at Wildcard at npr.org. We love hearing from you.

We'll shuffle the deck and be back with more next week. See you then.